What would a series loss in New Zealand mean for India's Test team?

[HappyWarsFan]

yes and Australia's 2004 win vs weakened india.

2012 loss to England should be removed.

AUSTRALIA beating a weakened pakistan in early 2000.

All of then shouldn't count. Even most gr3st teams can only win away when the opposition is either declining or weak or in a rebuilding phase.

Weren't India full strength in 2012? Yes they had a bunch of past it but still full strength.

 

[Hitman]

Again with that Windies series, If India's 2-1 win Aus is not counted, than Pak's drawn series cannot be counted because of Viv and Marshall not playing.. so there again you can't have different logic.

Not to mention Holding, Garner and Roberts had all retired by then.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

speak for yourself. number of wins is what matters.

No it doesn't, nobody cares about home matches. You can win 1000 home matches and 1 good away win trumps all those combined.

 

[andy0204]

No it doesn't, nobody cares about home matches. You can win 1000 home matches and 1 good away win trumps all those combined.

Please don't demean home victories,England, Australia celebrate their home victories why can't India?
I know to be no 1 you need to conquer the world but that doesn't mean you demean home victories.

 

[jnaveen1980]

No it doesn't, nobody cares about home matches. You can win 1000 home matches and 1 good away win trumps all those combined.

Australia's domination is pretty much at home lol. For heavensake Australia lost in Bangladesh. So did England

 

[MP2011]

No it doesn't, nobody cares about home matches. You can win 1000 home matches and 1 good away win trumps all those combined.

lol, hyperbole much?

If today's test playing nations go by your yardsticks, I think everyone should stop playing home tests as they're in any case not going to be rated by some obscure keyboard warriors.

Oh, wait!

 

[jnaveen1980]

lol, hyperbole much?

If today's test playing nations go by your yardsticks, I think everyone should stop playing home tests as they're in any case not going to be rated by some obscure keyboard warriors.

Oh, wait!

England got their clock cleaned in West Indies. To avoid white wash they got Holder banned

 

[MP2011]

England got their clock cleaned in West Indies.

Yeah, all teams mostly suck in away tests with India sucking far lesser than all others and hence their justified no.1 ranking.

 

[jnaveen1980]

You could undervalue the Indian wins if India wins because of spin bowling. On the contrary INdia's domination at home is due to their fast bowling. There is no excuse for others not to do well here. For one thing most of the top players visit yearly for IPL. They are very familiar with bowlers, conditions here.

 

[andy0204]

You could undervalue the Indian wins if India wins because of spin bowling. On the contrary INdia's domination at home is due to their fast bowling. There is no excuse for others not to do well here. For one thing most of the top players visit yearly for IPL. They are very familiar with bowlers, conditions here.

IPL is a different format,In tests if BCCI are allowing overseas players to play Ranji they you can say they are familiar with conditions.

 

[MP2011]

You could undervalue the Indian wins if India wins because of spin bowling. On the contrary INdia's domination at home is due to their fast bowling. There is no excuse for others not to do well here. For one thing most of the top players visit yearly for IPL. They are very familiar with bowlers, conditions here.

I still won't undermine India's wins. Simply because rest of the teams would still be inferior in terms of utilizing their own conditions as much as India would have!

 

[jnaveen1980]

IPL is a different format,In tests if BCCI are allowing overseas players to play Ranji they you can say they are familiar with conditions.

Yea. but you get some level of familiarity with conditions. The overseas struggle is not 100% related to pitch alone. Conditions, familiarity with surroundings also play an influencing role

 

[tyron_woodley]

No it doesn't, nobody cares about home matches. You can win 1000 home matches and 1 good away win trumps all those combined.

what an despicably asinine comment. overall wins is what matters.

if a team like india for instance demolishes every team at home and goes undefeated whilst losing or drawing every away series it would still be a greater accomplishment than say someone like australia who for example wins a few home series but isn't as dominant as india at home and simultaneously produces mixed results away from home as well.

Total number of games matters provided all teams play equal amount of games.

India beats England at home 5-0
india loses 4-1 away

australia draws away 2-2
wins at home 3-0


India is the winner here. 6 wins to 5. away and home makes no difference.

winning matters.

 

[Revolution]

I am sure Indian team will do good in test series too.
Almost conquered T20 series. Our bowlers are doing fantastic work .

Pujara and Rahane should have reached new Zealand and should have adjusted to the environment.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

No it doesn't, nobody cares about home matches. You can win 1000 home matches and 1 good away win trumps all those combined.

You are free to not rate home wins, but in an era of home dominance this is what counts most. 1 good away win does not count for much of you start losing at home.

 

[Hasan123]

India will beat NZ in tests. They are the better team. But even if they lost it really won't matter. Every team has holes in them. Being top of the test rankings for a number of years is a magnificent achievement and should be recognised.

 

[Revolution]

Wining in new Zealand is always extra advantage. I have confidence that we will easily thrash new Zealand 3-0 at home.

Fingers crossed for away series of Australia and England.

 

[Ab Fan]

It will mean that we are A grade home track bullies. What is worse is the fact that our away series wins till now have come only against average teams.

Look at great South Africa team. They defeated the great England team of 2012 away and a good Australian team away as well. They drew against the great Indian team away and also defeated a good Pakistan team in 2007.

Look even at the Indian team of 2007-10,they defeated England away, New Zealand away and drew against a strong SA side.

India must beat NZ otherwise their legacy will remain of home track bullies as they have only been able to beat Sri Lanka and Windies away outside of beating Australian side away without Smith and Warner.

 

[BreadPakoda]

It will mean that we are A grade home track bullies. What is worse is the fact that our away series wins till now have come only against average teams.

Look at great South Africa team. They defeated the great England team of 2012 away and a good Australian team away as well. They drew against the great Indian team away and also defeated a good Pakistan team in 2007.

Look even at the Indian team of 2007-10,they defeated England away, New Zealand away and drew against a strong SA side.

India must beat NZ otherwise their legacy will remain of home track bullies as they have only been able to beat Sri Lanka and Windies away outside of beating Australian side away without Smith and Warner.

But this is an average New Zealand team and India is touring them just at the right time when their confidence is down.

Even if India wins the series they are still HTBs. On the other hand if India loses, then they are no better than any rank ordinary team atm.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Weren't India full strength in 2012? Yes they had a bunch of past it but still full strength.

You just contradicting yourself. If they are past it then how is it full strength? Also why none of PP members ever ridicule the Aussie win against in India in 2004? They got luck, green pitch, and absence of Tendulkar helped them win the series.

 

[happydavy]

Your first part of the post is text book approach of Ganguly. He woudl win a test and try to draw the remaining. Dhoni tried the same in England after winning the first test. He dropped a bowler and played 7 batsmen. It backfired big time. Kohli is definitely different on that aspect.

Even then dhoni and Ganguly were better than Imran who mostly didn't even try winning a test. Draw from day 1 was his style and a win was a bonus and you call him the best Captain. What's Imran's W%? Now forget about asian or world teams, how many Pakistani captains who have captained 20 or more tests have worse W% than Imran? Answer is none or 1, in a list of 7-8 captains. His drawn series against WI in Wi was thanks to one test Pakistan won in which there was no Richards and WI bowling unit had 3 bowlers with less than 10 tests under their belts.

 

[happydavy]

It will mean that we are A grade home track bullies. What is worse is the fact that our away series wins till now have come only against average teams.

Look at great South Africa team. They defeated the great England team of 2012 away and a good Australian team away as well. They drew against the great Indian team away and also defeated a good Pakistan team in 2007.

Look even at the Indian team of 2007-10,they defeated England away, New Zealand away and drew against a strong SA side.

India must beat NZ otherwise their legacy will remain of home track bullies as they have only been able to beat Sri Lanka and Windies away outside of beating Australian side away without Smith and Warner.

Win or lose against NZ, this is the most overrated Indian team ever. Have hardly done anything extraordinary and yet make noise about being no:1 as delusional kids. Australian team of 2000s didn't go around shouting that they were ranked no:1, the fear amongst opposition teams showed who was the boss. Forget anything, can this Indian team win a test match abroad after batting 2nd?

 

[Ronaldo7]

You just contradicting yourself. If they are past it then how is it full strength? Also why none of PP members ever ridicule the Aussie win against in India in 2004? They got luck, green pitch, and absence of Tendulkar helped them win the series.

Full strength because those were the best players India could have possibly fielded

 

[CanadianG00se]

Full strength because those were the best players India could have possibly fielded

Thats not the case. India has better younger players, but Seniors were just hogging the place.

 

[pratiktc]

Defeat would further reinforce idea that India while being deservedly no.1 in today's era is quite vulnerable away from home.

I think India will not have an easy time at all in this Test series. They have already lost a crucial cog of attack in Ishant Sharma. He is the dry bowler that allows Shami and Bumrah to attack. Nobody can replace his role adequately in pace attack

 

[pratiktc]

what an despicably asinine comment. overall wins is what matters.

if a team like india for instance demolishes every team at home and goes undefeated whilst losing or drawing every away series it would still be a greater accomplishment than say someone like australia who for example wins a few home series but isn't as dominant as india at home and simultaneously produces mixed results away from home as well.

Total number of games matters provided all teams play equal amount of games.

India beats England at home 5-0
india loses 4-1 away

australia draws away 2-2
wins at home 3-0


India is the winner here. 6 wins to 5. away and home makes no difference.

winning matters.

This is not UEFA champions league knockout.

3-0 and 2-2 is a far more creditable performance than 5-0 and 4-1

 

[Junaids]

India beats England at home 5-0
india loses 4-1 away

australia draws away 2-2
wins at home 3-0


India is the winner here. 6 wins to 5. away and home makes no difference.

winning matters.

That’s not how Test cricket works. It never has.

The most important thing is not losing, and minimising how often you lose.

Consider these two imaginary sets of home and away series v England.

India 5 England 0 Drawn 0
England 3 India 1 Drawn 1

Australia 2 England 0 Drawn 3
England 0 Australia 0 Drawn 5

Overall home and away you have:

England 3 India 6 Drawn 1
England 0 Australia 2 Drawn 8

In Test cricket, Australia very much emerges as the top team in that scenario.

First and foremost, they lose no Test matches.

Secondly, they lose no Test series.

Thirdly, they win a series without dropping a Test.

The number of home wins is utterly irrelevant. Manchester City won a lot of home matches by a wide margin last season, but Liverpool are the European champions.

 

[Ab Fan]

But this is an average New Zealand team and India is touring them just at the right time when their confidence is down.

Even if India wins the series they are still HTBs. On the other hand if India loses, then they are no better than any rank ordinary team atm.

Average team or whatever, first win something away. South Africa were average team in 2018 but they won the series against India before the start of third test.

Australia win remains the best thing India did but people will continue to argue it was without legend Smith and his deputy Warner.

To be a great team, India need to win one test series away against a strong side. Sri Lanka, West Indies and Australia without legends S/W aren't.

What would you take?

A 60 averaging batsmen at home and 35 averaging away

Or

A 50 averaging batsmen home and away both

To be the greatest Asian team, they need to surpass 2007-2010 Indian team and atleast match them overseas.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Average team or whatever, first win something away. South Africa were average team in 2018 but they won the series against India before the start of third test.

Australia win remains the best thing India did but people will continue to argue it was without legend Smith and his deputy Warner.

You are not making any sense and actually contradicting yourself.

First win something away? Well, India has already done that in Oz.

Secondly, the win against NZ would be as meaningless as the win against Ozzies. So India isn't getting any brownie points for winning this one too.

 

[Junaids]

Average team or whatever, first win something away. South Africa were average team in 2018 but they won the series against India before the start of third test.

Australia win remains the best thing India did but people will continue to argue it was without legend Smith and his deputy Warner.

To be a great team, India need to win one test series away against a strong side. Sri Lanka, West Indies and Australia without legends S/W aren't.

What would you take?

A 60 averaging batsmen at home and 35 averaging away

Or

A 50 averaging batsmen home and away both

To be the greatest Asian team, they need to surpass 2007-2010 Indian team and atleast match them overseas.

Wrong.

To be recognised as an ATG team, India has to have won their last away series in Australia PLUS England PLUS New Zealand PLUS South Africa.

To be recognised as a very good team they need to win their series in New Zealand and Australia this year and at least draw their next series in England and South Africa.

We know that this India team are Home Track Bullies who - like Pakistan - got lucky by playing Australia late in 2018 when Smith and Warner were suspended. But the same India team had already lost SIX Tests in England and South Africa that same year.

So at present India are just viewed as the least weak team in an extraordinarily weak era of international cricket.

 

[ind_win]

restricting Williamson, Taylor & Latham is the key for India.
All three had closed 2019 with 50 or more avg.
And williamson or taylor are due for a big one against India.
Just hope no one plays the Brendon McCullum 302 type of Innings though (that was also a 2-test series) - but have an inner feeling this might not happen as dhoni is not a part of the team anymore...

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...ia-2nd-test-india-tour-of-new-zealand-2013-14

 

[Junaids]

restricting Williamson, Taylor & Latham is the key for India.
All three had closed 2019 with 50 or more avg.
And williamson or taylor are due for a big one against India.
Just hope no one plays the Brendon McCullum 302 type of Innings though (that was also a 2-test series) - but have an inner feeling this might not happen as dhoni is not a part of the team anymore...

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...ia-2nd-test-india-tour-of-new-zealand-2013-14

New Zealand has gone past their peak and are firmly back in minnow territory now. They are similar in strength to South Africa, a long way behind England and Pakistan, let alone Australia and India.

To be frank, if India don’t win each Test by an innings then it just further reinforces that they are not that strong currently. I’m certain that Australia would win each Test by at least an innings or 200 runs.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

New Zealand has gone past their peak and are firmly back in minnow territory now. They are similar in strength to South Africa, a long way behind England and Pakistan, let alone Australia and India.

To be frank, if India don’t win each Test by an innings then it just further reinforces that they are not that strong currently. I’m certain that Australia would win each Test by at least an innings or 200 runs.

True . How many New Zealanders would get into this Australian team according to you?

 

[ind_win]

New Zealand has gone past their peak and are firmly back in minnow territory now. They are similar in strength to South Africa, a long way behind England and Pakistan, let alone Australia and India.

To be frank, if India don’t win each Test by an innings then it just further reinforces that they are not that strong currently. I’m certain that Australia would win each Test by at least an innings or 200 runs.

Agree on the weak performances of NZ team. And I am sure NZ will prepare green pitches and it goes both ways but India will be tested and innings win is definitely not possible.

My only worry is Indian teams - past or present - are very good at making heroes out of non-performers/people low on confidence/some new comers.
Hope none from NZ is given a chance this time. The issue of opening is more or so solved with Mayank agarwal being one the best things to happen to Indian cricket in the last 5 years.

As for NZ, it is a shame that they are lagging since they always over performed, have right structure and are always a sporting nation. And with the current players they are not able to do so..whatever reasons..

 

[Junaids]

True . How many New Zealanders would get into this Australian team according to you?

They have aged even through the course of the 2019-20 season.

The current answer is Zero.

Taylor is just about finished, Southee is finished, Boult has lost his pace, Watling looks like a guy who is 35 years old in six months.

Williamson has always been a Poor Man’s Martin Crowe who plays stupid shots outside off-stump. Wagner is into the last year of his career.

It’s over for this Kiwi team. Pakistan should be planning what they need to do to whitewash them at Wellington, Christchurch and Hamilton this time next year.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

They have aged even through the course of the 2019-20 season.

The current answer is Zero.

Taylor is just about finished, Southee is finished, Boult has lost his pace, Watling looks like a guy who is 35 years old in six months.

Williamson has always been a Poor Man’s Martin Crowe who plays stupid shots outside off-stump. Wagner is into the last year of his career.

It’s over for this Kiwi team. Pakistan should be planning what they need to do to whitewash them at Wellington, Christchurch and Hamilton this time next year.

I agree with this. NZ players are completely past it and even Wagner at 33 doesn't have much left either and he won't replace Starc either you have to admit this - Starc is a better bowler now . They don't have any outstanding talents coming up and will be a mid-table team at best.

 

[BreadPakoda]

They have aged even through the course of the 2019-20 season.

The current answer is Zero.

Taylor is just about finished, Southee is finished, Boult has lost his pace, Watling looks like a guy who is 35 years old in six months.

Williamson has always been a Poor Man’s Martin Crowe who plays stupid shots outside off-stump. Wagner is into the last year of his career.

It’s over for this Kiwi team. Pakistan should be planning what they need to do to whitewash them at Wellington, Christchurch and Hamilton this time next year.

By the time Pakistan tours, NZ will have already recuperated and built a better team than the one India is facing. Pakistan's victories will hold importance.

 

[jnaveen1980]

New Zealand has gone past their peak and are firmly back in minnow territory now. They are similar in strength to South Africa, a long way behind England and Pakistan, let alone Australia and India.

To be frank, if India don’t win each Test by an innings then it just further reinforces that they are not that strong currently. I’m certain that Australia would win each Test by at least an innings or 200 runs.

What is with this arbitrary "should win by an innings". India thrashes Bangladesh every time they visit Bangladesh. How come Australia lost to Bangladesh in BD? What Bangladesh is to India is the same as NZ is to Australia. For Asian sides they will still pose challenge. How are they minnows. They just beat England. How are they behind Pakistan?

 

[Junaids]

By the time Pakistan tours, NZ will have already recuperated and built a better team than the one India is facing. Pakistan's victories will hold importance.

What is with this arbitrary "should win by an innings". India thrashes Bangladesh every time they visit Bangladesh. How come Australia lost to Bangladesh in BD? What Bangladesh is to India is the same as NZ is to Australia. For Asian sides they will still pose challenge. How are they minnows. They just beat England. How are they behind Pakistan?

Team sport is a constantly evolving thing as players age and new ones come through.

New Zealand crushed England at the start of 2019. When they hosted them again ten months later England were improving and an ageing New Zealand was fading fast. And England are stronger again after the South Africa tour.

New Zealand has basically no emerging young talent at all. None whatsoever. They are looking down the barrel of a long period in the Test doldrums and will rely on fitness and discipline to carry on succeeding in white ball cricket.

I know that Misbah fills his squads with mediocre veterans, but to be fair to Pakistan they have Shaheen Shah Afridi, Naseem Shah, Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan with several years ahead of them. And excellent supporting players like Shadab Khan and Faheem Ashraf. Even Misbah can’t mess up too badly when there is that much young talent emerging.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Team sport is a constantly evolving thing as players age and new ones come through.

New Zealand crushed England at the start of 2019. When they hosted them again ten months later England were improving and an ageing New Zealand was fading fast. And England are stronger again after the South Africa tour.

New Zealand has basically no emerging young talent at all. None whatsoever. They are looking down the barrel of a long period in the Test doldrums and will rely on fitness and discipline to carry on succeeding in white ball cricket.

I know that Misbah fills his squads with mediocre veterans, but to be fair to Pakistan they have Shaheen Shah Afridi, Naseem Shah, Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan with several years ahead of them. And excellent supporting players like Shadab Khan and Faheem Ashraf. Even Misbah can’t mess up too badly when there is that much young talent emerging.

You can spin anyway you want. Pakistan batting on a slightly bouncy wicket can be rolled over very cheaply. Slightly swinging conditions can be rolled over. One early morning Boult spell can absolutely destroy Pakistan batting in a session. Slightly turning wickets can be rolled over. One Babar cannot save the whole side. Besides bowlers are inexperienced. When they were up against quality batsmen they looked toothless. Shaheen is passable at this point. As a fan i understand you want to look at only the positives. But you should never under-estimate any opposition even when you are at the top of your game.

 

[tyron_woodley]

New Zealand has gone past their peak and are firmly back in minnow territory now. They are similar in strength to South Africa, a long way behind England and Pakistan, let alone Australia and India.

To be frank, if India don’t win each Test by an innings then it just further reinforces that they are not that strong currently. I’m certain that Australia would win each Test by at least an innings or 200 runs.

yes yes. come back to me when australia win a series in Sri Lanka or Bangladesh.

 

[Sin Nombre]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]
how did NZ beat England in tests just last month if they are in minnow territory and a long way behind England and Pakistan?

Also whitewashed Pakistan in every format 12 months back.

 

[pratiktc]

That’s not how Test cricket works. It never has.

The most important thing is not losing, and minimising how often you lose.

Consider these two imaginary sets of home and away series v England.

India 5 England 0 Drawn 0
England 3 India 1 Drawn 1

Australia 2 England 0 Drawn 3
England 0 Australia 0 Drawn 5

Overall home and away you have:

England 3 India 6 Drawn 1
England 0 Australia 2 Drawn 8

In Test cricket, Australia very much emerges as the top team in that scenario.

First and foremost, they lose no Test matches.

Secondly, they lose no Test series.

Thirdly, they win a series without dropping a Test.

The number of home wins is utterly irrelevant. Manchester City won a lot of home matches by a wide margin last season, but Liverpool are the European champions.

You have taken it to other extreme. If teams play with loss avoidance mentality it will make for b grade boring cricket on dead pitches. Test cricket will die out with a whimper.

And if any Aus team plays 5 draws in a series, captain will resign out of shame.

Thank.god players and teams don't have this kind of perverse series lead protection mindset anymore. Good on WTC format for further incentivizing results

 

[tyron_woodley]

total rubbish rofl.

get out of here.
if india won 5 0 vs England at home and lose 4- 1 away. that's still 6-4 in India's favour.

if australia win 4 - 1 away and then lose 3-2 at home.
what difference does that make? you lost at home and won away. won away in a SENA country whose conditions aren't alien to you.
That takes the credibility of the away win. winning is what matters.

overall h2h is what counts provided both teams play the same amount of games per series in a home and away fixture.

what? you want an award for winning away and competing just enough to lose a closely fought series. Not good enough.

Losing at home is far more embarrassing.

 

[Ted123]

Will this Indian team be called a great team if they lose to New Zealand away in Test series?

Do you think the Indian team can be called a great team if they lose to New Zealand away in test series after losing to a weak South Africa and England team away from home and only winning against a Australian team which didn't had a single world class batsmen?

No doubt they have dominated teams at home like very few can but Sri Lanka and Windies are a distant 7th and 8th team in this generation respectively. India don't play Pakistan, so the away performances which value the most are S.E.N.A and the overall performance has been below par.

How exactly do they get compared with Imran's 80s Pakistan team, Smith's late 00s to mid-10s SA team and the great Australian and Windies team?

Discuss!

 

[Rellu_Katta]

Need to win in NZ and SA and Eng .... you cant be great if u dont win away

but this indian team has a chance .. bcz of their superior bowling as compared to the old touring indian teams

 

[tyron_woodley]

Do you think the Indian team can be called a great team if they lose to New Zealand away in test series after losing to a weak South Africa and England team away from home and only winning against a Australian team which didn't had a single world class batsmen?

No doubt they have dominated teams at home like very few can but Sri Lanka and Windies are a distant 7th and 8th team in this generation respectively. India don't play Pakistan, so the away performances which value the most are S.E.N.A and the overall performance has been below par.

How exactly do they get compared with Imran's 80s Pakistan team, Smith's late 00s to mid-10s SA team and the great Australian and Windies team?

Discuss!

this is the most complete indian side I have seen in a long time. A series win or draw would be great but not the end to the world if they can beat australia after.

 

[Proactive_]

It's not a great team in any sense. India of the late 2010's would just be remembered for being the best out of a pretty bad bunch of Test teams at the moment. The only reason it's so incredibly dominant at home is because of the non Asian teams' (stupid) reluctance to develop proper Test match quality spinners in their domestic set ups. You can't win Test matches in India with bits and pieces cricketers being your front line spinners. Australia was the only team who came with two proper spin bowling options in 2017 and they almost won the series, routing India by 333 runs in Pune in the process.

It's a shame because India does have the talent to be a great team. The fast bowling attack is the best it has ever been in it's entire history. Ashwin and Jadeja have been ruthless at home and at least serviceable away, the batsmen HAD a ton of potential to develop into something like the batting core of India 2000s but Kohli and Shastri's politics has put a dent to all of that.

I'm afraid that this team will continue to punch below it's weight in the coming away series as well. BCCI should have kicked Kohli out of captaincy the moment he started playing favoritism to keep guys like Pujara out of the team on the pretext of not showing enough "intent". Yes indeed, that's how stupid India's captain and coach combination has been. Rahane would have been a better captain by a mile.

 

[tyron_woodley]

It's not a great team in any sense. India of the late 2010's would just be remembered for being the best out of a pretty bad bunch of Test teams at the moment. The only reason it's so incredibly dominant at home is because of the non Asian teams' (stupid) reluctance to develop proper Test match quality spinners in their domestic set ups. You can't win Test matches in India with bits and pieces cricketers being your front line spinners. Australia was the only team who came with two proper spin bowling options in 2017 and they almost won the series, routing India by 333 runs in Pune in the process.

It's a shame because India does have the talent to be a great team. The fast bowling attack is the best it has ever been in it's entire history. Ashwin and Jadeja have been ruthless at home and at least serviceable away, the batsmen HAD a ton of potential to develop into something like the batting core of India 2000s but Kohli and Shastri's politics has put a dent to all of that.

I'm afraid that this team will continue to punch below it's weight in the coming away series as well. BCCI should have kicked Kohli out of captaincy the moment he started playing favoritism to keep guys like Pujara out of the team on the pretext of not showing enough "intent". Yes indeed, that's how stupid India's captain and coach combination has been. Rahane would have been a better captain by a mile.

Not the best of a bad bunch. Literally the best home bully of all time. 2017 was a fluke. It looked a lot closer than it actually was. Won't happen again.

Every team is strong at home. India are just on another level though. India are competitive away and extremely dominant at home. They deserve to be number 1 and rightfully so.

 

[Junaids]

They have no way of being recognised as a great Test team because in 2018 they lost seven away Tests in 3 countries.

Beating a fading New Zealand is hardly going to make up for that.

 

[Ab Fan]

They have no way of being recognised as a great Test team because in 2018 they lost seven away Tests in 3 countries.

Beating a fading New Zealand is hardly going to make up for that.

NZ arent a fading side at home. They defeated England 1-0 recently. Anyways, NZ are favourites IMO. This is an era where everyone is a HTB.

 

[Hitman]

Will put a big dent on our reputation as the #1 Test team if we lose the Test series.

 

[MenInG]

They have no way of being recognised as a great Test team because in 2018 they lost seven away Tests in 3 countries.

Beating a fading New Zealand is hardly going to make up for that.

so basically whether they win or lose will make no difference?

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

If india loses this series then i"ll surely not consider this team great.
They need to atleast draw this series if they want to become an atg team.

On the other hand if india wins this series, they will be called a great team.

New Zealand test series will determine this teams greatness.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

They have no way of being recognised as a great Test team because in 2018 they lost seven away Tests in 3 countries.

Beating a fading New Zealand is hardly going to make up for that.

This New Zealand team is arguably the greatest New Zealand test team ever.

Defeating them in their own home will surely be a great achievement.

2 batsmen out of top 3 nz bats ever:
Kane Williamson
Ross taylor

Greatest nz wkt keeper batsmen ever
Bj watling

Arguably the Greatest nz bowling attack ever

Boult
Wagner
Southee.

Add latham and nicholls and this nz batting lineup is probably their best ever.
This is New Zealands GOAT test team.

 

[Junaids]

so basically whether they win or lose will make no difference?

Correct, just like whether Bangladesh win or lose in Zimbabwe can’t somehow make them a Great Team.

Most of this Indian team is the wrong side of 30, and they lost their last away series in England, New Zealand and South Africa and they only won narrowly in Australia because the only two Test class Aussie batsmen were suspended.

I’m looking forward to the series, but Test greatness is built upon not losing away series. And 2018 forever ended that for this India team.

 

[Junaids]

This New Zealand team is arguably the greatest New Zealand test team ever.

Defeating them in their own home will surely be a great achievement.

2 batsmen out of top 3 nz bats ever:
Kane Williamson
Ross taylor

Greatest nz wkt keeper batsmen ever
Bj watling

Arguably the Greatest nz bowling attack ever

Boult
Wagner
Southee.

Add latham and nicholls and this nz batting lineup is probably their best ever.
This is New Zealands GOAT test team.

Forget Richard Hadlee - you have a better bowling attack in 1999 with Cairns - Nash - Doull - Vettori.

The problem with your post is very Asian - the names of a bunch of past-it geriatrics look good together.

But you have named 6 players, of whom 5 are in steep decline as Test players, because they are getting old.

 

[Junaids]

This New Zealand team is arguably the greatest New Zealand test team ever.

Defeating them in their own home will surely be a great achievement.

2 batsmen out of top 3 nz bats ever:
Kane Williamson
Ross taylor

Greatest nz wkt keeper batsmen ever
Bj watling

Arguably the Greatest nz bowling attack ever

Boult
Wagner
Southee.

Add latham and nicholls and this nz batting lineup is probably their best ever.
This is New Zealands GOAT test team.

You don’t think the team of Fleming, Astle, McMillan, Cairns, Parore, Vettori and Bond was significantly better? Like MUCH better?

 

[Geil]

When it comes to calling this Indian team a great team around the world is an illusion but this team can certainly be called great Indian team when it is compared with the past Indian team because they did which no past Indian team did winning Test match series in Australia.This team is certainly a good team and can be called one of the top two away touring teams at this moment because they definitely compete when they play away but still they seems to only be competitive rather than converting it to series win which was evident in 2018 tours of RSA and England.New Zealand just like all teams wins at home and it is going to be tough for this good Indian team to win this series but certainly the trend is clear the home team are the favorites to win

 

[Rana]

It would mean that they are not as great as they think they are or some of their ******* try to make them seem that they are.

India has not won in NZ, SA and England (dominating fashion) and they won a series against a toothless Australia. They have not won an ICC tournament since 2013 and they have not played against Pakistan since 2007.

How anyone can even consider this an ATG side would be insulting Australia’s actual dominance on the game

 

[globalcitizen]

Let me put it this way, even if india wins the series I don’t expect anyone calling them a great team. Ofcourse losing we know the answer. So rather, indians and cricket fans around world will be just hoping for an exiting series and best team wins.

 

[tyron_woodley]

You don’t think the team of Fleming, Astle, McMillan, Cairns, Parore, Vettori and Bond was significantly better? Like MUCH better?

short answer. No. current team is their best ever side. Bond literally became dilapidated after 17 tests. Can't include him.

This team is every bit as good as them if not better. They have a very well rounded team for home conditions. They are powerful in n.z.

They kicked England's butt. Every team is good at home but not dominant. India are far too dominant at home and competitive away. Enough to be called a great team. I agree they need to win vs n.z and England away to cement their GOAT status. Possibly a win vs australia again away from home could make them the best of all time.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Forget Richard Hadlee - you have a better bowling attack in 1999 with Cairns - Nash - Doull - Vettori.

The problem with your post is very Asian - the names of a bunch of past-it geriatrics look good together.

But you have named 6 players, of whom 5 are in steep decline as Test players, because they are getting old.

Richard hadlee is by far the greatest New Zealand bowler ever but who were his partners.?He was a lone warrior.
This nz attack has two world class bowlers along with southee who is great in nz conditions (a home bully).

Cairns-nash - doull.?
How are they better than boult wagner southee.
The problem with ur post is nostalgia.
Cairns - doull and nash all average 29 - 30

Wagner is significantly better so is boult.

Your assumption that every batsmen becomes useless once he crosses 30 is totally wrong and based on ignorance rather than facts.

Kane williamson is at the peak of his powers and is quite easily the greatest ever nz batter.
Ross taylor avgd 55 in 2019 so he is good enough to score runs in home conditions.

Bj watling is 34 but just one month ago he scored a double century.

 

[Ab Fan]

Parore and McMillan don't average even 30 with the bat, Vettori was good but he became an all-rounder in the second half of his career. Astle is decent test bat but more known for ODI exploits, someone like Latham is much better than him.

From 80s onwards, a NZ test team XI will be like:-

Fleming
Latham
KW
Crowe
Taylor
Watling(wkt)
Cairns
Hadlee
Vettori
Bond
Boult/Wagner

Latham, KW, Taylor, Watling, Boult. So five names from current team.

80s had Hadlee and Crowe
90s had Cairns and Fleming
00s had Bond and Vettori
10s had KW, Taylor and Boult

 

[tyron_woodley]

Parore and McMillan don't average even 30 with the bat, Vettori was good but he became an all-rounder in the second half of his career. Astle is decent test bat but more known for ODI exploits, someone like Latham is much better than him.

From 80s onwards, a NZ test team XI will be like:-

Fleming
Latham
KW
Crowe
Taylor
Watling(wkt)
Cairns
Hadlee
Vettori
Bond
Boult/Wagner

Latham, KW, Taylor, Watling, Boult. So five names from current team.

80s had Hadlee and Crowe
90s had Cairns and Fleming
00s had Bond and Vettori
10s had KW, Taylor and Boult

yea junaid is a good poster but he far too nostalgic. Past is always better to him.

Unfortunately that's not how life works Players evolve. That's why I hate era comparison. There were rule changes, drs, no ball umpires, unbiased umpires/neutral, changes in diet, advanced technology to conduct analysis on every player. Data science has moved far ahead. All top players are scrutinized and assessed on a regular basis to find out patterns, trends and their ability to battle under pressure.

 

[MenInG]

Head coach Ravi Shastri sounds affirmative when he says that India will not hold back come the two-Test series against New Zealand and are eager to play like the “No. 1 Test team in the world” in a bid to book a place in the final of the World Test Championship at Lord’s in 2021.

India are currently leading the WTC rankings with 360 points having all their seven matches so far. With six overseas Tests this year, India are seeking another 100 points which promises to assure them of a place at the home of cricket in the final.

“We need 100 points to be in contention to play at Lord’s. Two overseas wins out of six Tests will keep us in good stead. We play six Tests overseas this year (two in NZ and four in Australia). So, that’s one objective,” Shastri told the Times of India. “The other is to play like the world’s No. 1 Test team – because that’s what this team believes in more than anything else. On the Test front, that’s what we’re looking at.”

India, after whitewashing New Zealand 5-0 in T20Is, were swept 0-3 in ODIs, a series which captain Virat Kohli said was not of too much significance considering it’s the year of the T20 World Cup. As for Tests, India are already without Rohit Sharma, which opens the place of either Prithvi Shaw or young Shubman Gill to partner Mayank Agarwal.

“Both [Shaw and Gill] are supremely exciting talents,” Shastri said. “Regardless of who gets into the XI in Wellington, the fact of the matter is they’re here, part of India’s national squad, and from here on they should know that the sky remains the limit.”

“He [Gill] is phenomenally talented. His approach to batting is very clear and he exhibits a very positive mindset. That’s very exciting for a boy who’s just 20 going on 21.”

Shaw had promising starts in all three ODIs, scoring 20, 24 and 42, while Agarwal was a bit of a disappointment with 36 runs from three innings. Even during the ongoing practice match in Hamilton, Shaw, Agarwal and Gill endured collective failures with the three batsmen combining for 1 run, but Shastri isn’t too worried with one poor score.

“They’re all from the same school, you know. They love facing the new ball, enjoy a challenge,” Shastri said. “Rohit is unfortunately out so that puts Shubman and Prithvi in contention to open with Mayank. That competition is necessary and that’s what makes a bunch of 15 look strong and stable.”

https://www.cricketcountry.com/news...-1-test-team-in-the-world-ravi-shastri-917777

 

[Ab Fan]

yea junaid is a good poster but he far too nostalgic. Past is always better to him.

Unfortunately that's not how life works Players evolve. That's why I hate era comparison. There were rule changes, drs, no ball umpires, unbiased umpires/neutral, changes in diet, advanced technology to conduct analysis on every player. Data science has moved far ahead. All top players are scrutinized and assessed on a regular basis to find out patterns, trends and their ability to battle under pressure.

He unnecessarily hypes past players just to hype some of his favourites.

It's good to have the cricketing knowledge of past from some of the older generation posters but once you become a regular poster on PP, you eventually get to know the biasedness and nostalgia for the players of their era even though they may have watched and followed players across eras.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

When India plays it will make no difference whether they win or lose.

By the time Pakistan plays, the outdated NZ team will have been replaced by potential ATG side.

So when Pakistan do win, Pakistan will be actual best test team unlike the fake Indian team.

 

[Mesozoic]

They have not won an ICC tournament since 2013 and they have not played against Pakistan since 2007.

How anyone can even consider this an ATG side would be insulting Australia’s actual dominance on the game

1. Thread is about Test cricket. So "not winning ICC events" goes straight into the bin.

2. It doesn't matter whether we've played Pakistan or not as they have never been a top side for the most part of the last decade. We'd have beaten them more often than not if we played.

3. What Australian dominance ? They've won a big fat zero no. of test Series' in Asia in the decade or so. Not even against Bangladesh.

Try again.

 

[andy0204]

1. Thread is about Test cricket. So "not winning ICC events" goes straight into the bin.

2. It doesn't matter whether we've played Pakistan or not as they have never been a top side for the most part of the last decade. We'd have beaten them more often than not if we played.

3. What Australian dominance ? They've won a big fat zero no. of test Series' in Asia in the decade or so. Not even against Bangladesh.

Try again.

Australia didn't won in subcontinent in last decade that's a big statement,
They won in Srilanka in 2011.

 

[Mesozoic]

Australia didn't won in subcontinent in last decade that's a big statement,
They won in Srilanka in 2011.

Oh my bad. But my point still stays. They have been as vulnerable in the SC as India in SENA and lost 4 times the series'India lost at home. How is that "dominance" ?

 

[Ab Fan]

australia didn't won in subcontinent in last decade that's a big statement,
they won in srilanka in 2011.

2004 India
UAE?

 

[Ab Fan]

2004 India
UAE?

I think they have won in Sri Lanka in 10s.

 

[andy0204]

Oh my bad. But my point still stays. They have been as vulnerable in the SC as India in SENA and lost 4 times the series'India lost at home. How is that "dominance" ?

I think this time they will do good in subcontinent because in 2022 their tours are mostly in asian countries,2 tests in Pakistan/U.a.e,2 test in Srilanka,a test match against Afghanistan in India and 4 match series in India(Justin Langer's dream to win).

 

[ind_win]

If at least one of the openers perform and the other one stays a bit at the wicket, India can win this series 1-0 as weather in NZ or Eng or SA will have huge impact on the ground conditions.

 

[Advaith]

A lot depends on opening pair of Shaw and Agarwal ..If they provide good start then it will be uphill task for kiwis..It will be a low scoring series with lively pitches .. Evenly matched teams,one or two brilliant performance with bat can tilt the series which will be dominated by the bowlers..

 

[Rana]

I can’t believe there are people who think this India side is better than the Australia side up until 2007

 

[tyron_woodley]

I can’t believe there are people who think this India side is better than the Australia side up until 2007

india would smack them at home That's for sure.

Away Aussies would win but it will be a lot closer than what it would look like in sub continent. India's dominance at home is superior to ponting's dominance at home.

if india lose to n.z and australia away in the next tours by a huge margin then your point is valid. Give them some time to prove themselves first. Let's see how this indian side fares.

I have no doubt they are easily one of the best home dominant teams of all time though.

 

[Shoaib88]

After getting whitewashed in ODI series, I guess people have started to realise how overrated this team is, the test series will only confirm it!

 

[The lone Ranger]

After getting whitewashed in ODI series, I guess people have started to realise how overrated this team is, the test series will only confirm it!

Overrated? after losing an Odi series?.

This is a quality indian side barring some useless players like Thakur, jadav, Agarwal (in odis).
Any decent captain with some good team selection would have won this series easily especially after beating Australia who humiliated the kiwis!

why didn't you say this after the t20 series?

even with captain kohli india have defeated a strong kiwis side by 4-1 last year. So beating them in limited over formats is not a big deal.. wait till the test series is over..