Whats the point of discipline and super fitness if performances are poor?

[gazza619]

Looking at Pakistan’s performances over the last few years, we are not miles ahead of any minnow. Bangladesh defeats us and it is not considered an upset. Afghanistan will beat us anytime soon.

But have you guys noticed, during this fall to a mediocre team, our players have exceeded in fitness and general behavior. Kids who didnt grow up in the 90s have no idea what it was watching a Pakistani fast bowler. It was all about swearing, banter, aggression. Even our batsmen had aggression. You will always get a mouthful from our players which made thrilling viewing.

Now we are just left with some ponies. So my question is what is the point of all this? Isnt this nonsense? Can we not tell the players, ‘hey to hell with your late night concert, i need some runs in the next match’

I hate all this discipline. We need a chilled coach, seriously!

 

[Boi]

As if our performances were good before this emphasis on fitness and discipline and about. You really do make some weird posts

 

[gazza619]

As if our performances were good before this emphasis on fitness and discipline and about. You really do make some weird posts

We lost 5-0 and players and management were all in a disciplined giggle. This is how low we are. Our focus is on act good, smile, dont swear, discipline, fitness, training, curfew..

 

[Ronaldo7]

What is this thread?
Fitness is important no matter how good you are.
Namibia needs to maintain good fitness levels. Just because they're not blessed with ability doesn't mean they should not be fit

 

[gazza619]

What is this thread?
Fitness is important no matter how good you are.
Namibia needs to maintain good fitness levels. Just because they're not blessed with ability doesn't mean they should not be fit

I dont think you understood my point. Of course fitness is important.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Cant forgive Mickey to what he did to Abid.

A technically equipped batsman who can play fast bowling well was not picked for SA due to his fitness even though he scored big in 4 days for A team.

 

[gazza619]

Cant forgive Mickey to what he did to Abid.

A technically equipped batsman who can play fast bowling well was not picked for SA due to his fitness even though he scored big in 4 days for A team.

Thank you, and that is exactly my point. We have some decent players who kept getting ignored because they couldnt reach the benchmark set by the coach. Of course fitness is important but our benchmarks were too high.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Thank you, and that is exactly my point. We have some decent players who kept getting ignored because they couldnt reach the benchmark set by the coach. Of course fitness is important but our benchmarks were too high.

And it was not like he had worst fitness. The guy has scored 200 in List A with same fitness and used to keep for Islamabad and open the batting with same fitness. There will be some other examples too and for some other players too.

Sometimes we give too much importance on fitness and ignore talent and ability.

 

[Boi]

Thank you, and that is exactly my point. We have some decent players who kept getting ignored because they couldnt reach the benchmark set by the coach. Of course fitness is important but our benchmarks were too high.

lol the yoyo test level required to pass in Pakistan’s set up is the lowest of all the cricketing teams that use it.

 

[Ronaldo7]

I dont think you understood my point. Of course fitness is important.

Yeah i misunderstood what you were trying to say. Sorry.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The "talented" players who are being ignored due to a lack of fitness, should work to improve that instead of hoping to be in the squad because the fit players are not performing well. There should be no compromise on fitness.

 

[Boi]

And it was not like he had worst fitness. The guy has scored 200 in List A with same fitness and used to keep for Islamabad and open the batting with same fitness. There will be some other examples too and for some other players too.

Sometimes we give too much importance on fitness and ignore talent and ability.

Tough decisions have to be made if you’re trying to change a culture. These guys are professional cricketers. They are paid to get into the best shape physically and mentally to be able to perform at the highest level.
It may have been tough on Abid but he now knows what is expected and will obviously work hard to improve his fitness further which can only be of benefit to him.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Tough decisions have to be made if you’re trying to change a culture. These guys are professional cricketers. They are paid to get into the best shape physically and mentally to be able to perform at the highest level.
It may have been tough on Abid but he now knows what is expected and will obviously work hard to improve his fitness further which can only be of benefit to him.

I get you bhai but then the criteria should be same for all players.

Imad Wasim has played under Mickey in Internationals despite having atrocious fitness and even failed fitness test once. yehi nahi he was rewarded with captaincy by Mickey. Do you think its just that there are different criteria for different players. It seems like it depends on who Mickey 'rate' rather than fitness alone.

 

[Boi]

I get you bhai but then the criteria should be same for all players.

Imad Wasim has played under Mickey in Internationals despite having atrocious fitness and even failed fitness test once. yehi nahi he was rewarded with captaincy by Mickey. Do you think its just that there are different criteria for different players. It seems like it depends on who Mickey 'rate' rather than fitness alone.

Imad was dropped when he failed his fitness test before the Asia cup. I don’t think it’s a case of double standards from Mickey. He just has a poor eye for talent and backs the wrong horses too much. I’m sure he would’ve seen the likes of Saud and Zafar at the NCA at the very least. A guy with decent eye for talent would be sitting up on his chair wanting them around the national set up. Instead he rates the likes of Imam, Imad, Yasir and Shinwari too much.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Imad was dropped when he failed his fitness test before the Asia cup. I don’t think it’s a case of double standards from Mickey. He just has a poor eye for talent and backs the wrong horses too much. I’m sure he would’ve seen the likes of Saud and Zafar at the NCA at the very least. A guy with decent eye for talent would be sitting up on his chair wanting them around the national set up. Instead he rates the likes of Imam, Imad, Yasir and Shinwari too much.

I believe there should be a threshold for fitness like yoyo test score and if someone pass it that should be enough for selection. One cant judge on eye if someone is fit enough or not. From what i heard Mickey was against Abid's selection for SA because of his fitness. I dont think Abid gave any fitness test.

Agree with you on his poor eye for talent thing which is also there to see from his Karachi Kings playing X1s.

 

[unemployedgm]

Who is considered fit on this team?

 

[Boi]

I believe there should be a threshold for fitness like yoyo test score and if someone pass it that should be enough for selection. One cant judge on eye if someone is fit enough or not. From what i heard Mickey was against Abid's selection for SA because of his fitness. I dont think Abid gave any fitness test.

Agree with you on his poor eye for talent thing which is also there to see from his Karachi Kings playing X1s.

Don’t think Abid would’ve got a chance on the SA tour anyway because Mickey was always going to start Imam, Fakhar and even Shan ahead of any other opener. But yeah you’re right it’s a shame there wasn’t an actual fitness test taken and assumptions were made instead.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Btw as we are talking about fitness, why was Umar Akmal selected in this series as he looked in worst fitness then he looked in 2017.

As i said and believe there is some weird stuff going on and if they want to apply this fitness criteria then it should be applied strictly and on all players equally in all situations. The shouldn't say we are hard on fitness in one series (SA series) and then pick and choose in Aus series.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Don’t think Abid would’ve got a chance on the SA tour anyway because Mickey was always going to start Imam, Fakhar and even Shan ahead of any other opener. But yeah you’re right it’s a shame there wasn’t an actual fitness test taken and assumptions were made instead.

Poor at identifying players.

I believe if there are better players, they should get the nod rather then clinging on consistency. Usman Salahuddin is another case in tests.

 

[MMHS]

That’s a foolish argument.

Fitness & discipline are essential, regardless of the result. We should consider the other equation as well - this results are “after” the better fitness & discipline; not “despite” focus on fitness & discipline. For example, the number of 100s that PAK players hit in this series is a world record - 5 in a 0-5 loss. This is the result of better fitness for a serial unfit player like Haris, while after keeping for 50 overs in UAE heat, Rizwan scored a better than run a ball 100... Without that fitness, still it would have been 0-5, but may be Aussies winning 4 times with bonus points, instead of once.

 

[coy0607]

because without disciple the performance would be worse. They wouldn't lose by 20 runs, they would lose by 100
They need to get more disciplined to continue to improve

weird post

 

[giri26]

because without disciple the performance would be worse. They wouldn't lose by 20 runs, they would lose by 100
They need to get more disciplined to continue to improve

weird post

That does not make sense. The fitness and discipline of some of the previous generation players were questionable but still Pakistan was winning more than they lost. In cricket you need to have ability to perform in the middle. You need to be fit enough to be able to contribute in all facets of the game but again without actual performances it means nothing. Why not hire some athletes in the team? They are probably fitter than the entire Pakistan team.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Discipline and fitness is bare minimum. You can act as if these things don't matter but the world have accepted this reality and is now developing cricketers fit from an early age so that when they make it big matching fitness levels of professional cricketers is the least of their worries.

 

[Hawkeye]

lol the yoyo test level required to pass in Pakistan’s set up is the lowest of all the cricketing teams that use it.

You like to throw around statements without any facts behind them.

Give a reference to one official figures from any board and then official from the PCB.

No hearsay or what you heard from a random poster.

I'm waiting.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Cant forgive Mickey to what he did to Abid.

A technically equipped batsman who can play fast bowling well was not picked for SA due to his fitness even though he scored big in 4 days for A team.

A precedent has been set. Can't make exceptions. Otherwise we'd be reverting back to the old undisciplined ways.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

You must learn to lose before you can win. The team is steadily improving. Compared to 3 years ago, we've found multiple players that can score 100s at run a ball. We're confident about scoring and defending 300 with a full strength team.

It's a matter of finding late order strikers that have enough brain cells to construct an innings to complete the lineup.

Regarding spin, we have a quality bowler waiting in Zafar whose non-selection I don't blame Mickey for because he's not good at identifying spinners nor is his job to identify from domestic. That's Inzi's crew's job who have been pathetic.

 

[todfod 11]

I dont think you understood my point. Of course fitness is important.

Agression and fitness are two different things.. fitness shohld be maintained by individual and agression comes naturally. Babar Azam and Harris Sohail can never be aggressive just like tendulkar or dravid couldnt.
I agree with your point then we should let the players free and do whatever in their free time(parties, fun whatever) but then u have idiots like chotu and selfi who ruuns for everyone.

 

[Bouncer]

That’s a foolish argument.

Fitness & discipline are essential, regardless of the result. We should consider the other equation as well - this results are “after” the better fitness & discipline; not “despite” focus on fitness & discipline. For example, the number of 100s that PAK players hit in this series is a world record - 5 in a 0-5 loss. This is the result of better fitness for a serial unfit player like Haris, while after keeping for 50 overs in UAE heat, Rizwan scored a better than run a ball 100... Without that fitness, still it would have been 0-5, but may be Aussies winning 4 times with bonus points, instead of once.

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
Its a shame that people dont pay as much attention to the fine points you make as they should and instead abuse you. Shame.
I hope you dont get discouraged and stop posting here. I for sure will miss your opinion

 

[Dr_Bassim]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] is one of the best posters on the forum.

I read his comments before the Australia series where he believed Aussies would be in the semi-finals anyways because of their resilience and because they are Australia.

No one believed him, but suddenly after the Indian win and Pakistan thrashing, everyone predicts Aussies to be in the semi finals of the World Cup.

 

[Hasan123]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] is one of the best posters on the forum.

I read his comments before the Australia series where he believed Aussies would be in the semi-finals anyways because of their resilience and because they are Australia.

No one believed him, but suddenly after the Indian win and Pakistan thrashing, everyone predicts Aussies to be in the semi finals of the World Cup.

I said Australia would be in the semis of the WC even before the Indian series.

 

[Energy]

Fitness should come before talent, especially since this is a part of the job. Its like saying why do I need to greet and sign an email when I can just throw the words in the middle.

 

[RehanG]

exactly, talent should come before fitness, going by this logic, Ranatunga, Inzi ect would have had played cricket. Cricket is not as intense as Football for what u need extraordinary fitness. U need to be skilfull and thats what should matter.