"When foreign players refuse to visit Pak, it sends out wrong message that Pak's unsafe" : Moin Khan

[Abdullah719]

"When foreign players refuse to visit Pak, it sends out wrong message that Pak's unsafe" : Moin Khan

Moin Khan at a presser after PZ knocked QG out of PSL 3:

"My feelings are hurt as a Head Coach, it was a good match but I think we made unnecessary mistakes."

"It doesn't help matters when someone who is playing well like Shane Watson isn't there."

"Our team is good and I had full confidence in them but when you play unnecessary shots then such things happen."

"They played better than us. Must praise Anwar Ali's effort in the last over. There should have been 2 runs on the last ball but the non-striker wasn't ready for that, we could have a had a Super Over."

"Shane Watson was opening for us before and he provided us stability so we thought that Asad is a good solid senior batsman and he can do the same but he got a great first ball and then Tom also got out."

"Nawaz's promotion up the order worked then the captain Sarfaraz promoted himself up the order to take the initiative and that was a positive sign that shows his character."

"The batsmen were all waiting for that one big over against Dawson but we let the required over rise too much in the previous few overs."

"Shane Watson gave consent to visiting Pakistan no doubt, I think he also signed an agreement with PCB. Hastings also agreed but he became unfit and same for Laughlin but he pulled out due to personal reasons. We were expecting to have all these players. We knew KP was unwilling but he's a very good player and took us to the final last year. As a Head Coach, I don't think one player makes a big difference so if KP didn't come we could have made up for it."

"Asad and Umar Amin couldn't fulfill our expectations and they will and we will also have to think about their future. We have a lot of cricket before the next PSL so if they regain their form before that, we'll see how we go about it and what we do."

"Umpiring was ordinary overall in PSL. When the DRS etc. is available, it makes things easy. But I saw things like today, four substitute were allowed without any injuries. The umpires should have handled the pressure better. Jordan took a great catch, if another player was there it could have been different."

"Those players who don't give consent to tour Pakistan shouldn't be kept in the draft. The PSL has now become a very big brand so in the future, I don't think there will be need for big individual players. When they refuse to visit Pakistan, it also affects the country and sends out the wrong message that Pakistan is an unsafe country. They should come and play here like Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka and World XI. PCB shouldn't make the league dependant on these individual players."

"Thisara Perera came via three flights and had straight into the match. Tom Kohler-Cadmore also just arrived last night. No matter how big players they are, their body needs rest for a day or two. Mahmudullah arrived at 5AM."

"Some of the youngsters are a bit out of focus, they have a lot to learn about finishing games. Once then start doing that then they can make a name for themselves and come into contention for national team selection and play against the best."

"All the franchises have become big brands now. I don't think money matters so much, those players who want to come should only be accepted into the league. If someone respects Pakistan, he should come and play this league. It is the duty of the PCB to ensure players are willing to visit Pakistan, not the franchises."

"Nawaz's wicket put pressure on Sarfaraz and he couldn't deal with the bouncer next ball, we made some crucial mistakes."

"Players have to improve and play according to the requirements of the team."

"Rilee Rossouw was unwell, he had a bad stomach during the match and we had to send a substitute fielder. That was a setback. We were expecting him to play at least run-a-ball but unfortunately he couldn't perform today."

 

[PakLFC]

Every time there is a chance of some team touring Pak a bomb blast takes us to where it all started. Can't blame any player for feeling insecure when this happens. Foreign players have families who are concerned about their safety. They are not deliberately trying to give Pak a bad name. It doesn't help that war torn Afghanistan is our direct neighbour.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Every time there is a chance of some team touring Pak a bomb blast takes us to where it all started. Can't blame any player for feeling insecure when this happens. Foreign players have families who are concerned about their safety. They are not deliberately trying to give Pak a bad name. It doesn't help that war torn Afghanistan is our direct neighbour.

Yes but the same players would tour France after Paris attacks.

Tour London after Arian Grand Concert attacks.

Double standards?

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Good stuff from Moin

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Must say, great stuff from Moin.

Looks like next year we will more then likely see a change in the contract that includes that if one plays the PSL, they MUST play in Pakistan.

 

[PakLFC]

Yes but the same players would tour France after Paris attacks.

Tour London after Arian Grand Concert attacks.

Double standards?

Of course. This is because Pakistani politicians or commentators do not ever say anything positive about the country. When was the last time we ever said anything good about ourselves or internationally promoted our country?. Our politicians including IK are always bashing everything about Pakistan. When we make it sound like Syria and Iraq then why should anyone want to visit us? From Shahid Masood to Zaid Hamid. Mubashar Lucman, Amir Liaquat Hussain to Shahid Masood and Hamid Mir everything is always doom and gloom. Say some good things about Pakistan and Cricketers may consider visiting us.

 

[navin]

Yes but the same players would tour France after Paris attacks.

Tour London after Arian Grand Concert attacks.

Double standards?

Woah so you are comparing Pakistan with France now?

 

[Savak]

Must say, great stuff from Moin.

Looks like next year we will more then likely see a change in the contract that includes that if one plays the PSL, they MUST play in Pakistan.

Having contracts like this will drive away the big name foreign players. A better approach would be the Franchise owners making stronger efforts not only with these foreign players but also their family members, spouses, parents as well. Heck invite them to Dubai and win over them.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Having contracts like this will drive away the big name foreign players. A better approach would be the Franchise owners making stronger efforts not only with these foreign players but also their family members, spouses, parents as well. Heck invite them to Dubai and win over them.

What big names?

The likes of De Villiers,De Kock,Root,Stokes are already not playing.

As was shown yesterday even if we have SL,WI,SA,BD players only our league can be successful as long as it is within Pakistan

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Of course. This is because Pakistani politicians or commentators do not ever say anything positive about the country. When was the last time we ever said anything good about ourselves or internationally promoted our country?. Our politicians including IK are always bashing everything about Pakistan. When we make it sound like Syria and Iraq then why should anyone want to visit us? From Shahid Masood to Zaid Hamid. Mubashar Lucman, Amir Liaquat Hussain to Shahid Masood and Hamid Mir everything is always doom and gloom. Say some good things about Pakistan and Cricketers may consider visiting us.

Agreed!

 

[UN talkz]

Great stuff from Moin Khan, he is being brutally honest. I just hope he implements what he is saying, there should be no place for guys like Shafiq and Umar Amin in the team.
They are hurt from the Watson incident, looks like that's end of Watson in PSL.
They rested guys like Saud Shakeel and Saad Ali throughout the tournament and it was painful to see Asad, Amin and Rameez play and Saud and Saad warming the bench.

 

[Ali Bohra]

Yes but the same players would tour France after Paris attacks.

Tour London after Arian Grand Concert attacks.

Double standards?

No double standard

 

[shane]

When players have to be escorted to the stadium by armed guards and cars are not allowed to park within several kilometres of the stadium then maybe, just maybe, Pakistan is not a safe place for foreigners.

 

[Godhelpma]

A typical cry baby! Moeen is blaming all other minor factors for the team loss except his own management and selection . He has been very poor with his selections , continuously selected Asad , Ramiz jr, anwar , Nawaz .He did not give chance to players like saad ali etc. He is also trying to blackmail people and Pcb emotionally over the issue of foreign players . Next year fist change to be made in Quetta camp should be change of moeen Khan with some more professional one .

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

When players have to be escorted to the stadium by armed guards and cars are not allowed to park within several kilometres of the stadium then maybe, just maybe, Pakistan is not a safe place for foreigners.

This is what the ICC and their security consultants have asked for the go ahead.

Pakistan can host matches without all this but its been requested.

What more do you want. Damned if you damned if you don't.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

A typical cry baby! Moeen is blaming all other minor factors for the team loss except his own management and selection . He has been very poor with his selections , continuously selected Asad , Ramiz jr, anwar , Nawaz .He did not give chance to players like saad ali etc. He is also trying to blackmail people and Pcb emotionally over the issue of foreign players . Next year fist change to be made in Quetta camp should be change of moeen Khan with some more professional one .

Nawaz was one of the best performers for Quetta all through the tournament.

 

[DRsohail]

Someone should have asked them that waht were SAAD ALI AND SAU SHAKIL doing on the becnh.Such a dumb coach.I am so happpy that his team is out.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If PSL is ready to host psl with only a handful of players then they can try to enforce "Must play in Pakistan" clause. Many players will simply wont go to Pakistan.

With cricket being played in lot of places in feb march, the pool is anyway restricted.

 

[Pakhs]

Well I think PSL at the very least should be half played in UAE and Half in Pakistan!! That will solve all the problems because even if some players dont want to play the Pakistan half, teams will have half the games to find replacements and the teams who would qualify for top 4 will have good squads for both legs. The problem so far has been only few games have been played in Pakistan which make the players think even if we dont go to Pakistan we still play most of the games and teams find it hard to find adequate replacements for last 1 or 2 games.

 

[barah_admi]

Every time there is a chance of some team touring Pak a bomb blast takes us to where it all started. Can't blame any player for feeling insecure when this happens. Foreign players have families who are concerned about their safety. They are not deliberately trying to give Pak a bad name. It doesn't help that war torn Afghanistan is our direct neighbour.

What?

There were bomb blasts when the world XI toured?

This is ridiculous logic anyway as India, Bang and SL all suffer from hug amounts of terrorism and yet international cricket has not stopped. Germany suffered an attack where a champions league team was bombed...not only did football in the country continue, the match went ahead too!

If cricket is to be banned in Pakistan, then apply that rule all over the planet and see how many countries are left standing.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

What?

There were bomb blasts when the world XI toured?

This is ridiculous logic anyway as India, Bang and SL all suffer from hug amounts of terrorism and yet international cricket has not stopped. Germany suffered an attack where a champions league team was bombed...not only did football in the country continue, the match went ahead too!

If cricket is to be banned in Pakistan, then apply that rule all over the planet and see how many countries are left standing.

It depends on what people want to believe.

You can totally forgive foreigners for believing in Germany and France as compared to Pakistan as general public in Pakistan is very emotional and can easily swayed by religious sentiments.

This is not double standards.

It is just a perception that will change with time as the country becomes more tolerant and liberal in the future.

 

[Pakhs]

What?

There were bomb blasts when the world XI toured?

This is ridiculous logic anyway as India, Bang and SL all suffer from hug amounts of terrorism and yet international cricket has not stopped. Germany suffered an attack where a champions league team was bombed...not only did football in the country continue, the match went ahead too!

If cricket is to be banned in Pakistan, then apply that rule all over the planet and see how many countries are left standing.

Its not stupid logic because somehow the terrorists did mange to fire just a few bullets at Srilanka team bus some of them did hit players aswell it was pure luck and miracle that nobody was killed. Please think before you write such comments.

 

[barah_admi]

It depends on what people want to believe.

You can totally forgive foreigners for believing in Germany and France as compared to Pakistan as general public in Pakistan is very emotional and can easily swayed by religious sentiments.

This is not double standards.

It is just a perception that will change with time as the country becomes more tolerant and liberal in the future.

I completely agree that perceptions are different, but perceptions are not always reality.

As for this ridiculous statement about the population. So 200 million people wana kill cricketers now? When has the Pakistani electorate ever voted for an extremist party? A far right wing party?

India, Italy, Germany, Bangladesh have all done it, I could probably name 50 more. Again, put aside your illogical hate and see the truth.

Its not stupid logic because somehow the terrorists did mange to fire just a few bullets at Srilanka team bus some of them did hit players aswell it was pure luck and miracle that nobody was killed. Please think before you write such comments.

Did you even read what I wrote??? A bomb blast hit a football team in Germany, it was sheer luck no one was severely injured, let alone killed. The match went ahead. So why did the international community not react and ban international sport from Germany?

that is called logic, if you put aside your anti Pakistan hatred, you might be able to understand.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Its not stupid logic because somehow the terrorists did mange to fire just a few bullets at Srilanka team bus some of them did hit players aswell it was pure luck and miracle that nobody was killed. Please think before you write such comments.

Its an anomaly. A one off. A freak accident which will never be repeated. Countless incidents have happened all over the world. Even now the Austin bomber is on the loose in USA and its business as usual over there.

Its nearly 10 years since 2009 incident and we have a decent track record of going above and beyond to provide security to players. More teams will tour and Pakistan cricket will become a financial powerhouse. With Dave Richardson taking charge of ICC we will see more teams touring.

It is a certainty Bangladesh and Sri Lanka must tour Pakistan to sustain a bilateral cricketing relationship. We don't need you anymore so the ball is in their court to decide if a relationship based on equality and mutual respect is the best way otherwise we will walk away.

West Indies, South Africa, Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka on our side. More will follow.

 

[Major]

Yes but the same players would tour France after Paris attacks.

Tour London after Arian Grand Concert attacks.

Double standards?

bro its about law and order

 

[Mp812]

I completely agree that perceptions are different, but perceptions are not always reality.

As for this ridiculous statement about the population. So 200 million people wana kill cricketers now? When has the Pakistani electorate ever voted for an extremist party? A far right wing party?

India, Italy, Germany, Bangladesh have all done it, I could probably name 50 more. Again, put aside your illogical hate and see the truth.



Did you even read what I wrote??? A bomb blast hit a football team in Germany, it was sheer luck no one was severely injured, let alone killed. The match went ahead. So why did the international community not react and ban international sport from Germany?

that is called logic, if you put aside your anti Pakistan hatred, you might be able to understand.

Perhaps higher trust factor in the security agencies of England France Germany India has something to do with it .
Perhaps fact that OBL was found relaxing next to army town ....tension free.... has played a role. Many other factors do play a role in the mind of a tourist you know

 

[the Great Khan]

When players have to be escorted to the stadium by armed guards and cars are not allowed to park within several kilometres of the stadium then maybe, just maybe, Pakistan is not a safe place for foreigners.

or maybe that's what is needed to alleviate the concern of those that don't want to come. Its a chicken and egg. If we don't provide security and something happens then we get lambasted, if we provide the highest level to reassure we're lambasted. Which is it?

Tell me what sort of security is provided during the superbowl? or perhaps other major finals?

Also there is a clear double standards that is related to prejudice and hate. After Munich how many countries boycotted Germany? or what about during the 80's in england when bombs were going oif so frequently that they eventually destroyed the whole of manchester town cente?? any boycotts? no what did we hear. "we must stand up to terror and show a dunkirk spirit" "we wont let these savages defeat our values" etc etc

when a Pakistanis die "oh well they are kinda like that, and its always been a bit unsafe so sorry cant stand up with you lot since we couldn't care less how many of you die"

" oh look India is beautiful lets go there, oh wait bomb went off, no problem we will stand in solidarity, we cant let them win blah blah blah"

 

[LordJames]

Moin Khan at a presser after PZ knocked QG out of PSL 3:

"My feelings are hurt as a Head Coach, it was a good match but I think we made unnecessary mistakes."

"It doesn't help matters when someone who is playing well like Shane Watson isn't there."

"Our team is good and I had full confidence in them but when you play unnecessary shots then such things happen."

"They played better than us. Must praise Anwar Ali's effort in the last over. There should have been 2 runs on the last ball but the non-striker wasn't ready for that, we could have a had a Super Over."

"Shane Watson was opening for us before and he provided us stability so we thought that Asad is a good solid senior batsman and he can do the same but he got a great first ball and then Tom also got out."

"Nawaz's promotion up the order worked then the captain Sarfaraz promoted himself up the order to take the initiative and that was a positive sign that shows his character."

"The batsmen were all waiting for that one big over against Dawson but we let the required over rise too much in the previous few overs."

"Shane Watson gave consent to visiting Pakistan no doubt, I think he also signed an agreement with PCB. Hastings also agreed but he became unfit and same for Laughlin but he pulled out due to personal reasons. We were expecting to have all these players. We knew KP was unwilling but he's a very good player and took us to the final last year. As a Head Coach, I don't think one player makes a big difference so if KP didn't come we could have made up for it."

"Asad and Umar Amin couldn't fulfill our expectations and they will and we will also have to think about their future. We have a lot of cricket before the next PSL so if they regain their form before that, we'll see how we go about it and what we do."

"Umpiring was ordinary overall in PSL. When the DRS etc. is available, it makes things easy. But I saw things like today, four substitute were allowed without any injuries. The umpires should have handled the pressure better. Jordan took a great catch, if another player was there it could have been different."

"Those players who don't give consent to tour Pakistan shouldn't be kept in the draft. The PSL has now become a very big brand so in the future, I don't think there will be need for big individual players. When they refuse to visit Pakistan, it also affects the country and sends out the wrong message that Pakistan is an unsafe country. They should come and play here like Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka and World XI. PCB shouldn't make the league dependant on these individual players."

"Thisara Perera came via three flights and had straight into the match. Tom Kohler-Cadmore also just arrived last night. No matter how big players they are, their body needs rest for a day or two. Mahmudullah arrived at 5AM."

"Some of the youngsters are a bit out of focus, they have a lot to learn about finishing games. Once then start doing that then they can make a name for themselves and come into contention for national team selection and play against the best."

"All the franchises have become big brands now. I don't think money matters so much, those players who want to come should only be accepted into the league. If someone respects Pakistan, he should come and play this league. It is the duty of the PCB to ensure players are willing to visit Pakistan, not the franchises."

"Nawaz's wicket put pressure on Sarfaraz and he couldn't deal with the bouncer next ball, we made some crucial mistakes."

"Players have to improve and play according to the requirements of the team."

"Rilee Rossouw was unwell, he had a bad stomach during the match and we had to send a substitute fielder. That was a setback. We were expecting him to play at least run-a-ball but unfortunately he couldn't perform today."

How was your son selected in the squad?

 

[Pakhs]

I completely agree that perceptions are different, but perceptions are not always reality.

As for this ridiculous statement about the population. So 200 million people wana kill cricketers now? When has the Pakistani electorate ever voted for an extremist party? A far right wing party?

India, Italy, Germany, Bangladesh have all done it, I could probably name 50 more. Again, put aside your illogical hate and see the truth.



Did you even read what I wrote??? A bomb blast hit a football team in Germany, it was sheer luck no one was severely injured, let alone killed. The match went ahead. So why did the international community not react and ban international sport from Germany?

that is called logic, if you put aside your anti Pakistan hatred, you might be able to understand.

I love Pakistan team and support them with my full heart! but fact is a fact. The fact is even before that incident many teams didn't tour Pakistan and the fact that terrorists came so close and almost killed the entire Srilankan playing squad was a huge failure on our part and we have been paying for it. I dont want to talk about football that's a different sport because even if FIFA decide to have the world cup in Iraq no team will dare to question its just totally different.

 

[Pakhs]

Pakistan was never a country who could afford these incidents. India after Mumbai basically bullied England to tour although they were reluctant with the money power. All those people keep bringing India or other western nations must understand they have certain powers which comes with money. We as Pakistanis dont have such luxuries, In fact we go and ask for financial help every time we go to ICC meetings.

There should be no doubts that if you increase for example Ab deviliers IPL pay check by 1.5 to play PSL in Pakistan he will.

 

[cricketjoshila]

or maybe that's what is needed to alleviate the concern of those that don't want to come. Its a chicken and egg. If we don't provide security and something happens then we get lambasted, if we provide the highest level to reassure we're lambasted. Which is it?

Tell me what sort of security is provided during the superbowl? or perhaps other major finals?

Also there is a clear double standards that is related to prejudice and hate. After Munich how many countries boycotted Germany? or what about during the 80's in england when bombs were going oif so frequently that they eventually destroyed the whole of manchester town cente?? any boycotts? no what did we hear. "we must stand up to terror and show a dunkirk spirit" "we wont let these savages defeat our values" etc etc

when a Pakistanis die "oh well they are kinda like that, and its always been a bit unsafe so sorry cant stand up with you lot since we couldn't care less how many of you die"

" oh look India is beautiful lets go there, oh wait bomb went off, no problem we will stand in solidarity, we cant let them win blah blah blah"

TGK

May be its the trust they have in the institution of those countries. And the fact that NATO and western countries believe Pakistan is complicit with Taliban who they are fighting.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

or maybe that's what is needed to alleviate the concern of those that don't want to come. Its a chicken and egg. If we don't provide security and something happens then we get lambasted, if we provide the highest level to reassure we're lambasted. Which is it?

Tell me what sort of security is provided during the superbowl? or perhaps other major finals?

Also there is a clear double standards that is related to prejudice and hate. After Munich how many countries boycotted Germany? or what about during the 80's in england when bombs were going oif so frequently that they eventually destroyed the whole of manchester town cente?? any boycotts? no what did we hear. "we must stand up to terror and show a dunkirk spirit" "we wont let these savages defeat our values" etc etc

when a Pakistanis die "oh well they are kinda like that, and its always been a bit unsafe so sorry cant stand up with you lot since we couldn't care less how many of you die"

" oh look India is beautiful lets go there, oh wait bomb went off, no problem we will stand in solidarity, we cant let them win blah blah blah"

I've been studying this phenomenon for a while.

Its a mixture of factors. Anti Pakistani media from US and India spreading negative news on a daily basis to the world. Notice how they will reuse old material and dress it up. Essentially fake news. Its a constant supply. Even look at the poster above. He has been doing this for years and there are millions online doing the same on every forum.

And our people are incapable or perhaps not evolved enough yet to counter this narrative and collective positive projection of the country. We can counter it we just need to get better at producing more positive news and material. Perceptions can be altered.

 

[Big A]

Pakistan is unsafe. Moin is delusional if he thinks otherwise.

 

[Railu Katta]

Pakistan is unsafe. Moin is delusional if he thinks otherwise.

Do you live in Pakistan? How many people are killed or robbed in Pakistan? Compare that to US or a lot of the other countries. All these PC (personal computers) don't have a clue and just rant on the Internet

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I'm not really sure what Moin is complaining about. It was well known before the tournament started that a lot of the foreign players would be reluctant to travel to Pakistan, I was assuming the PCB had catered for this and the franchises decided to sign those players anyway. The problem with his reasoning is that the PSL brand will only grow when you have big names on board, and as can be seen in the group stages, they make a massive difference. You could maybe try tempting lesser known stars from abroad, but they won't have the pull factor needed to make it a viable brand.

The complaints about Shafiq and Amin just comes down to bad selection in my opinion. Shafiq was barely a ODI player, same with Rizwan, I don't know who decided they were suitable for hard hitting T20 cricket. Pakistan's domestic cricket may be weak, but at least you could look for the right type of player.

 

[Rishta Aunty]

Moin bhai is completely right. The whole charade stinks to high-heavens and it seriously hurts as a Pakistani to see how we've become a Pariah through factors outside our control.

There's a clear double standard to do with Pakistan and how it is perceived vs other countries where attacks have taken place. Few reasons for that:
1. Money: Money speaks, and IPL-style money speaks louder than anything else. Seeing the same Aussie players who absolutely hated India after the 2008 tour down under prancing around like teenage girls in the IPL should be enough evidence.

2. Religion: Islamic extremism and violence is always considered to be more suitable of the terrorism moniker than other forms of it. Obviously, things are nowhere close to as bad in India, but when was the last time you heard a lynching described as a Hindu terrorist attack or an anti-LGBT shooter who was religiously motivated called a Christian terrorist? If anything, when an attack takes place in India, instead of it's safety called into account, people want to travel even more to express solidarity. And with us? Damned till death.

3. Perception: Pakistan's cultural diversity is subsumed within as perception as being part of the Middle-east, Afghanistan radical Islam belt. I can say with complete confidence that there is no country that treats it's guests better than Pakistan. But all the news about it is about violence, corruption, war, terrorism, poor economy and extremism. Fact is that a lot of those problems exist in varying degrees in India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. But especially India, get's generally fantastic coverage focussing on it's economy, and IT and what not. Even more so now that it has a strong relationship with the US, and Modi does a great job of "selling" his country in the west.

On average just as many people die in gun violence in the US! Does anybody question it's safety?

4. India: Fact of the matter is that if India played Pakistan and dare I say toured us, normal cricket will return to Pakistan the very next day. I remember in the 80's and 90's the Asian boards used to rail against the racist treatment at the ICC together, and we were able to achieve multiple administrative victories. Since India decided to turn against us, they've pretty much led the isolation of Pakistan in cricket atleast, which is their stated government policy.

I frankly dunno how we are going to fight against all these factors.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Moin bhai is completely right. The whole charade stinks to high-heavens and it seriously hurts as a Pakistani to see how we've become a Pariah through factors outside our control.

There's a clear double standard to do with Pakistan and how it is perceived vs other countries where attacks have taken place. Few reasons for that:
1. Money: Money speaks, and IPL-style money speaks louder than anything else. Seeing the same Aussie players who absolutely hated India after the 2008 tour down under prancing around like teenage girls in the IPL should be enough evidence.

2. Religion: Islamic extremism and violence is always considered to be more suitable of the terrorism moniker than other forms of it. Obviously, things are nowhere close to as bad in India, but when was the last time you heard a lynching described as a Hindu terrorist attack or an anti-LGBT shooter who was religiously motivated called a Christian terrorist? If anything, when an attack takes place in India, instead of it's safety called into account, people want to travel even more to express solidarity. And with us? Damned till death.

3. Perception: Pakistan's cultural diversity is subsumed within as perception as being part of the Middle-east, Afghanistan radical Islam belt. I can say with complete confidence that there is no country that treats it's guests better than Pakistan. But all the news about it is about violence, corruption, war, terrorism, poor economy and extremism. Fact is that a lot of those problems exist in varying degrees in India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. But especially India, get's generally fantastic coverage focussing on it's economy, and IT and what not. Even more so now that it has a strong relationship with the US, and Modi does a great job of "selling" his country in the west.

On average just as many people die in gun violence in the US! Does anybody question it's safety?

4. India: Fact of the matter is that if India played Pakistan and dare I say toured us, normal cricket will return to Pakistan the very next day. I remember in the 80's and 90's the Asian boards used to rail against the racist treatment at the ICC together, and we were able to achieve multiple administrative victories. Since India decided to turn against us, they've pretty much led the isolation of Pakistan in cricket atleast, which is their stated government policy.

I frankly dunno how we are going to fight against all these factors.

You can't. Cricket is dominated by finance, and that means India, Australia and England will always dictate perception of what constitutes dangerous and what doesn't. It's not just Pakistan, the Windies, Sri Lanka and to a lesser extent South Africa are in the same boat.

Cricket suffers from not being a truly global sport, that means that the 'Big Three' will always have disproportionate influence. The best hope is that these countries themselves recognise that the game will end up destroying itself unless it becomes more inclusive. T20 has been great for that, it's given the old guard a good boot up the jacksie.

 

[Sachin136]

You can't. Cricket is dominated by finance, and that means India, Australia and England will always dictate perception of what constitutes dangerous and what doesn't. It's not just Pakistan, the Windies, Sri Lanka and to a lesser extent South Africa are in the same boat.

Cricket suffers from not being a truly global sport, that means that the 'Big Three' will always have disproportionate influence. The best hope is that these countries themselves recognise that the game will end up destroying itself unless it becomes more inclusive. T20 has been great for that, it's given the old guard a good boot up the jacksie.

How delusional does one have to be to think that Pakistan is completely safe, and it is because of the Big 3 that there is this perception of it being dangerous to visit?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How delusional does one have to be to think that Pakistan is completely safe, and it is because of the Big 3 that there is this perception of it being dangerous to visit?

The Big Three also had problems with terrorism, or at least India and England did. But being the big three, there was more financial and political sway in order to overcome the setbacks. Even Pakistan teams that have been threatened directly in the past about visiting India have made the trip regardless, solely because of the political and financial clout India holds in this arena. This isn't a judgement on the Big Three so don't take it as an accusation, this is just the reality. It's like the old saying, everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.

 

[smasher1980]

Irrespective of the fact whether Pak is a safe place or not, if players are not willing to travel to Pak, they shouldnt be picked in the draft. Players come to play in UAE and then share messages on social media that they wish the team all the best for the games in Pak. All it does is put a negative shade to playing cricket in Pak.

Hope PCB are brave enough to take the call in future editions. This might drastically reduce the number of international players but it will serve the tournament well in the long run.

 

[www787]

How delusional does one have to be to think that Pakistan is completely safe, and it is because of the Big 3 that there is this perception of it being dangerous to visit?

If you are of Indian origin and ignorant toward this issue then one is already delusional by bias and ignorance.

 

[Gubol123]

Moin bhai is completely right. The whole charade stinks to high-heavens and it seriously hurts as a Pakistani to see how we've become a Pariah through factors outside our control.

There's a clear double standard to do with Pakistan and how it is perceived vs other countries where attacks have taken place. Few reasons for that:
1. Money: Money speaks, and IPL-style money speaks louder than anything else. Seeing the same Aussie players who absolutely hated India after the 2008 tour down under prancing around like teenage girls in the IPL should be enough evidence.

2. Religion: Islamic extremism and violence is always considered to be more suitable of the terrorism moniker than other forms of it. Obviously, things are nowhere close to as bad in India, but when was the last time you heard a lynching described as a Hindu terrorist attack or an anti-LGBT shooter who was religiously motivated called a Christian terrorist? If anything, when an attack takes place in India, instead of it's safety called into account, people want to travel even more to express solidarity. And with us? Damned till death.

3. Perception: Pakistan's cultural diversity is subsumed within as perception as being part of the Middle-east, Afghanistan radical Islam belt. I can say with complete confidence that there is no country that treats it's guests better than Pakistan. But all the news about it is about violence, corruption, war, terrorism, poor economy and extremism. Fact is that a lot of those problems exist in varying degrees in India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. But especially India, get's generally fantastic coverage focussing on it's economy, and IT and what not. Even more so now that it has a strong relationship with the US, and Modi does a great job of "selling" his country in the west.

On average just as many people die in gun violence in the US! Does anybody question it's safety?

4. India: Fact of the matter is that if India played Pakistan and dare I say toured us, normal cricket will return to Pakistan the very next day. I remember in the 80's and 90's the Asian boards used to rail against the racist treatment at the ICC together, and we were able to achieve multiple administrative victories. Since India decided to turn against us, they've pretty much led the isolation of Pakistan in cricket atleast, which is their stated government policy.

I frankly dunno how we are going to fight against all these factors.

1- Money - Of course money speaks and htere is nothing stopping Pakinstan from being an attractive market and acquire money power. Big three or any other contry cannot stop Pak from earning money from their own market. Regarding Aussie players hating India 2008 tour, even during last tour there were sparks flying.. SO what? You cannot equate attacks in US and India and say they are same. They are not same.. Here are some facts for you.
-Pak has been fighting terrorism for decades now. They have been involved in a war next door for better part of two decades now. Neither India nor any other country playing cricket are doing that
- No cricket playing country was bombing their own country to eliminate terrorists
- No cricket playing country was bombarded with drone attacks (I think the last one was few months back)
- OBL, Taliban head and other terrorists were not found in other cricket playing countries
- No other country is hosting terrorists group in their country which their own army is fighting to eliminate. Don't tell there were no such groups or no such groups. Your own army statement few days back says they have eliminated haqqnani group after saying they were not there in Pak for years. Who can trust them now
- None of the major cities in other countries are targeted as often as in Pakistan

Yes other parts are also targeted, but not to the extent that Pak is. So until it goes away the situation will continue. I am sure things will improve over a period, but you cannot play victim when things are quite evidently different in Pak compared to every other cricket playing country.

2- Religion - too bad. there are bad apples in every religion. But all the recent global terriorst groups are Muslims, like Taliban, Al-Quaida, ISIS, Nigerian ones, etc. There are surely terriorits from other religion but most of the bigger groups are Muslims one.. you cannot change that fact..

3 - Perception - Irrespective of whatever cultural diversity you may have, Pak is 97%+ Muslim and people will perceive it has a Muslim country and associate Islam based culture with Pakistan. Lots of liberals might be here on PP but the fact is Pak is perceived as a coutnry hostile to other religions and culture as can be seen with decline of Hindu, Christian population in Pakistan ccompared to what it was after partition. You can't defend Pak's treatment of Ahmadiyya , Shias, Hazaras, etc. You can only sell what you have, not what you don't have..

4 - India didn't decide to turn against Pak, it is the other way around. It was Pak which played dirty politics by threatening about IPL, asking ICC to shift WC out of India from 2011 (did you expect countries to agree to tour Pak after SL attack couple of years back?), etc. It was India which was making Asian block and fighting against ICC, and if we had stayed that way it would have benefited Pak.

 

[Oxfordchamp]

Moin bhai is completely right. The whole charade stinks to high-heavens and it seriously hurts as a Pakistani to see how we've become a Pariah through factors outside our control.

There's a clear double standard to do with Pakistan and how it is perceived vs other countries where attacks have taken place. Few reasons for that:
1. Money: Money speaks, and IPL-style money speaks louder than anything else. Seeing the same Aussie players who absolutely hated India after the 2008 tour down under prancing around like teenage girls in the IPL should be enough evidence.

2. Religion: Islamic extremism and violence is always considered to be more suitable of the terrorism moniker than other forms of it. Obviously, things are nowhere close to as bad in India, but when was the last time you heard a lynching described as a Hindu terrorist attack or an anti-LGBT shooter who was religiously motivated called a Christian terrorist? If anything, when an attack takes place in India, instead of it's safety called into account, people want to travel even more to express solidarity. And with us? Damned till death.

3. Perception: Pakistan's cultural diversity is subsumed within as perception as being part of the Middle-east, Afghanistan radical Islam belt. I can say with complete confidence that there is no country that treats it's guests better than Pakistan. But all the news about it is about violence, corruption, war, terrorism, poor economy and extremism. Fact is that a lot of those problems exist in varying degrees in India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. But especially India, get's generally fantastic coverage focussing on it's economy, and IT and what not. Even more so now that it has a strong relationship with the US, and Modi does a great job of "selling" his country in the west.

On average just as many people die in gun violence in the US! Does anybody question it's safety?

4. India: Fact of the matter is that if India played Pakistan and dare I say toured us, normal cricket will return to Pakistan the very next day. I remember in the 80's and 90's the Asian boards used to rail against the racist treatment at the ICC together, and we were able to achieve multiple administrative victories. Since India decided to turn against us, they've pretty much led the isolation of Pakistan in cricket atleast, which is their stated government policy.

I frankly dunno how we are going to fight against all these factors.

Very well stated points...

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Irrespective of the fact whether Pak is a safe place or not, if players are not willing to travel to Pak, they shouldnt be picked in the draft. Players come to play in UAE and then share messages on social media that they wish the team all the best for the games in Pak. All it does is put a negative shade to playing cricket in Pak.

Hope PCB are brave enough to take the call in future editions. This might drastically reduce the number of international players but it will serve the tournament well in the long run.

It takes time to establish any brand of T20 cricket, the international players have been a big help in that. Now the franchises and PCB have to decide whether to continue in Dubai without crowds, or to move to Pakistan and have less foreign stars. It's an ongoing process, but we can't deny the importance of foreign players in establishing the PSL to start with.

 

[rhony]

Moin bhai is completely right. The whole charade stinks to high-heavens and it seriously hurts as a Pakistani to see how we've become a Pariah through factors outside our control.

There's a clear double standard to do with Pakistan and how it is perceived vs other countries where attacks have taken place. Few reasons for that:
1. Money: Money speaks, and IPL-style money speaks louder than anything else. Seeing the same Aussie players who absolutely hated India after the 2008 tour down under prancing around like teenage girls in the IPL should be enough evidence.

2. Religion: Islamic extremism and violence is always considered to be more suitable of the terrorism moniker than other forms of it. Obviously, things are nowhere close to as bad in India, but when was the last time you heard a lynching described as a Hindu terrorist attack or an anti-LGBT shooter who was religiously motivated called a Christian terrorist? If anything, when an attack takes place in India, instead of it's safety called into account, people want to travel even more to express solidarity. And with us? Damned till death.

3. Perception: Pakistan's cultural diversity is subsumed within as perception as being part of the Middle-east, Afghanistan radical Islam belt. I can say with complete confidence that there is no country that treats it's guests better than Pakistan. But all the news about it is about violence, corruption, war, terrorism, poor economy and extremism. Fact is that a lot of those problems exist in varying degrees in India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. But especially India, get's generally fantastic coverage focussing on it's economy, and IT and what not. Even more so now that it has a strong relationship with the US, and Modi does a great job of "selling" his country in the west.

On average just as many people die in gun violence in the US! Does anybody question it's safety?

4. India: Fact of the matter is that if India played Pakistan and dare I say toured us, normal cricket will return to Pakistan the very next day. I remember in the 80's and 90's the Asian boards used to rail against the racist treatment at the ICC together, and we were able to achieve multiple administrative victories. Since India decided to turn against us, they've pretty much led the isolation of Pakistan in cricket atleast, which is their stated government policy.

I frankly dunno how we are going to fight against all these factors.

All good points. It's called soft power. The perception of Pakistan needs to change and the effort must be at the top of the chain.

India was supposed to tour Pakistan and SL was invited instead in 2009. Imagine if those were Indian players in that bus. Considering that and the current relations, there is not even a remote chance of India touring in the next few years.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

All good points. It's called soft power. The perception of Pakistan needs to change and the effort must be at the top of the chain.

India was supposed to tour Pakistan and SL was invited instead in 2009. Imagine if those were Indian players in that bus. Considering that and the current relations, there is not even a remote chance of India touring in the next few years.

Who is at the top of the chain? Are we talking about cricket boards or is it a higher level?

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Who is at the top of the chain? Are we talking about cricket boards or is it a higher level?

We don't need the top chain.

We need us to pump out positive media online everyday. Flood the internet with everything that is good about Pakistan. It can be done, need the media houses to get creative.

 

[the Great Khan]

TGK

May be its the trust they have in the institution of those countries. And the fact that NATO and western countries believe Pakistan is complicit with Taliban who they are fighting.

that is what they portray in the media which filters down to ordinary joe which includes athletes. The trust issue has been exasperated further. Now I can understand why india can have trust issues with us because of our history but even here we have overcome those differences in the past and professionals like officers and officials have worked together. Indian players are also more open to handling Pakistani culture due to the commonality in the sub continent.

The west however especially the aussies have this ingrained prejudice about anywhere that is profoundly different to their own environment. They have only really accepted coming to india in the last decade or more. Before that all we heard was delhi belly this and heat that...Our problem is the US involvement in afghanistan.

Finally I do think there is now a lot more sympathy towards Pakistan especially in England and other countries. I would even go so far as to say in India many fans would in their heart of hearts love to play a jeet lo dil type series again..

 

[rhony]

Who is at the top of the chain? Are we talking about cricket boards or is it a higher level?

Starting with the political leadership. Onus is on them to project what Pakistan really is. One of the posters said that Pakistanis are very hospitable. I couldnt agree more. What Pakistan needs is an image makeover. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, that starts with disassociation with Afghanistan. Pakistan is always looked at as part of AfPak in the western media and that's damaging the image

 

[rhony]

We don't need the top chain.

We need us to pump out positive media online everyday. Flood the internet with everything that is good about Pakistan. It can be done, need the media houses to get creative.

Absolutely!!! All good things about Pakistan should drown out the bad news. As they say, Perception is reality. That's the case for Good and Bad.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Starting with the political leadership. Onus is on them to project what Pakistan really is. One of the posters said that Pakistanis are very hospitable. I couldnt agree more. What Pakistan needs is an image makeover. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, that starts with disassociation with Afghanistan. Pakistan is always looked at as part of AfPak in the western media and that's damaging the image

That's like asking England to disassociate from Scotland. Not impossible, but it's a big ask considering the shared border. It becomes a far bigger question than cricket at this point, not really sure if cricket is big enough to get over hurdles that big.

 

[rhony]

That's like asking England to disassociate from Scotland. Not impossible, but it's a big ask considering the shared border. It becomes a far bigger question than cricket at this point, not really sure if cricket is big enough to get over hurdles that big.

How often do you see news about Issues in England because of Scotland. Even if it does, it's in one news cycle and then people forget about it. In Pakistan's case every cycle is dominated with this problem.
Soft power is usually influenced through culture. Cricket is a big part of subcontinent culture.

 

[big_gamer007]

It’s all about perception and unfortunately for Pakistan the perception amongst foreigners is that it is not a safe country..

There are a lot of reasons why this is the perception of Pakistan amongst foreigners but that is just how it is.. Will take a few years to get it right..

 

[srh]

Moin Khan should have selected better local team players and then Watson and KP's non-playing in Pakistan would not have affected Quetta so much.

 

[Rishta Aunty]

You can't. Cricket is dominated by finance, and that means India, Australia and England will always dictate perception of what constitutes dangerous and what doesn't. It's not just Pakistan, the Windies, Sri Lanka and to a lesser extent South Africa are in the same boat.

Cricket suffers from not being a truly global sport, that means that the 'Big Three' will always have disproportionate influence. The best hope is that these countries themselves recognise that the game will end up destroying itself unless it becomes more inclusive. T20 has been great for that, it's given the old guard a good boot up the jacksie.

It's not just money though. Like I said, there are other factors/variables out there that I mentioned, which still seems to affect Pakistan more than others.

1- Money - Of course money speaks and htere is nothing stopping Pakinstan from being an attractive market and acquire money power. Big three or any other contry cannot stop Pak from earning money from their own market. Regarding Aussie players hating India 2008 tour, even during last tour there were sparks flying.. SO what? You cannot equate attacks in US and India and say they are same. They are not same.. Here are some facts for you.
-Pak has been fighting terrorism for decades now. They have been involved in a war next door for better part of two decades now. Neither India nor any other country playing cricket are doing that
- No cricket playing country was bombing their own country to eliminate terrorists
- No cricket playing country was bombarded with drone attacks (I think the last one was few months back)
- OBL, Taliban head and other terrorists were not found in other cricket playing countries
- No other country is hosting terrorists group in their country which their own army is fighting to eliminate. Don't tell there were no such groups or no such groups. Your own army statement few days back says they have eliminated haqqnani group after saying they were not there in Pak for years. Who can trust them now
- None of the major cities in other countries are targeted as often as in Pakistan

Yes other parts are also targeted, but not to the extent that Pak is. So until it goes away the situation will continue. I am sure things will improve over a period, but you cannot play victim when things are quite evidently different in Pak compared to every other cricket playing country.

2- Religion - too bad. there are bad apples in every religion. But all the recent global terriorst groups are Muslims, like Taliban, Al-Quaida, ISIS, Nigerian ones, etc. There are surely terriorits from other religion but most of the bigger groups are Muslims one.. you cannot change that fact..

3 - Perception - Irrespective of whatever cultural diversity you may have, Pak is 97%+ Muslim and people will perceive it has a Muslim country and associate Islam based culture with Pakistan. Lots of liberals might be here on PP but the fact is Pak is perceived as a coutnry hostile to other religions and culture as can be seen with decline of Hindu, Christian population in Pakistan ccompared to what it was after partition. You can't defend Pak's treatment of Ahmadiyya , Shias, Hazaras, etc. You can only sell what you have, not what you don't have..

4 - India didn't decide to turn against Pak, it is the other way around. It was Pak which played dirty politics by threatening about IPL, asking ICC to shift WC out of India from 2011 (did you expect countries to agree to tour Pak after SL attack couple of years back?), etc. It was India which was making Asian block and fighting against ICC, and if we had stayed that way it would have benefited Pak.

Lot's of Indian revisionism going on here. Let me counter your points one by one.

1. England was just as bad in the 1980's with an incredibly high death toll when the IRA-era was going on. It might surprise you, but you'll find that more than 2000 civilians died in just over a decade. Did anyone stop going there in that period? FYI most of the leadership were also war-criminals worldwide by the definition.

With respect to India, don't you have major insurgencies going on against Maoist groups and tribals groups in frontier states? Well guess what: we also are fighting a war against radicalized tribal groups in frontier states. It's as far from Karachi/Lahore as Kashmir is from Delhi. Does anyone stop playing in Delhi cause there's cross-border firing in the Poonch sector?

If you're talking about mistakes that we have made, I'm not gonna sit here and justify the past. The APS attack was a turning point in how our polity looked at radicalization, and there have been significant steps towards de-radicalization. Point is that there's an active effort being made to ensure that cricket doesn't return to Pakistan; I find it interesting how everytime there's some positive news about cricket coming back to Pakistan, there's a bomb blast almost like clockwork. To be fair, an attack seemingly takes place everytime conciliatory moves are made by India/Pakistan governments to each other, but this is something that can be overcome if there's the will for peace.

2/3. There are organized mobs that lynch people out in India as well today and minorities are treated like ****. India today isn't the India of 20 years ago where there was a strong secular ethos that Pakistani liberals used to look at with envy. You can keep trying to subvert that fact, but if you really cared you'd be looking within to see how you can de-radicalize your society rather than justify it on a Pakistani-focussed cricket forum. Point is that there is very little media attention paid to that relative to the ills of Pakistan in the world media.

4. PCB pulled Pakistani players out of the IPL cause there were fears about the players safety. Yes, in retrospection we could have kept them on, but don't forget that there was a serious chance of all-out war after the Mumbai attacks between the two country, led by your media which has already decided that attacking Pakistan was the only way to teach it a lesson. And even after that we played a series in India in 2012, based on a reciprocity agreement. The BCCI broke that agreement, not us.

All good points. It's called soft power. The perception of Pakistan needs to change and the effort must be at the top of the chain.

India was supposed to tour Pakistan and SL was invited instead in 2009. Imagine if those were Indian players in that bus. Considering that and the current relations, there is not even a remote chance of India touring in the next few years.

That's true! I shudder to think what would have happened; I'm not overstating that could have led to an all out war between the countries. PSL is a great chance to change perspectives on Pakistan.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I completely agree that perceptions are different, but perceptions are not always reality.

As for this ridiculous statement about the population. So 200 million people wana kill cricketers now? When has the Pakistani electorate ever voted for an extremist party? A far right wing party?

India, Italy, Germany, Bangladesh have all done it, I could probably name 50 more. Again, put aside your illogical hate and see the truth.



Did you even read what I wrote??? A bomb blast hit a football team in Germany, it was sheer luck no one was severely injured, let alone killed. The match went ahead. So why did the international community not react and ban international sport from Germany?

that is called logic, if you put aside your anti Pakistan hatred, you might be able to understand.

There is nothing to hate.

I can incite a mob outside my house right now by saying certain person went against the teachings of Muhammad (PBUH) and abused him.

You would be hard pressed to incite such a mob in France on basis of being Catholic.

Till the country becomes more tolerant and liberal, you can keep trying to convince others that it is safe but they will most likely not believe it.

 

[shane]

or maybe that's what is needed to alleviate the concern of those that don't want to come. Its a chicken and egg. If we don't provide security and something happens then we get lambasted, if we provide the highest level to reassure we're lambasted. Which is it?

Tell me what sort of security is provided during the superbowl? or perhaps other major finals?

Also there is a clear double standards that is related to prejudice and hate. After Munich how many countries boycotted Germany? or what about during the 80's in england when bombs were going oif so frequently that they eventually destroyed the whole of manchester town cente?? any boycotts? no what did we hear. "we must stand up to terror and show a dunkirk spirit" "we wont let these savages defeat our values" etc etc

when a Pakistanis die "oh well they are kinda like that, and its always been a bit unsafe so sorry cant stand up with you lot since we couldn't care less how many of you die"

" oh look India is beautiful lets go there, oh wait bomb went off, no problem we will stand in solidarity, we cant let them win blah blah blah"

No one is criticising the standard of security being provided. But the fact that such security is required at all - and it is actually required - is because Pakistan is not safe for foreigners.

And let's not play the race card please. This has nothing to do with what you look like.

 

[Zahid87]

that is what they portray in the media which filters down to ordinary joe which includes athletes. The trust issue has been exasperated further. Now I can understand why india can have trust issues with us because of our history but even here we have overcome those differences in the past and professionals like officers and officials have worked together. Indian players are also more open to handling Pakistani culture due to the commonality in the sub continent.

The west however especially the aussies have this ingrained prejudice about anywhere that is profoundly different to their own environment. They have only really accepted coming to india in the last decade or more. Before that all we heard was delhi belly this and heat that...Our problem is the US involvement in afghanistan.

Finally I do think there is now a lot more sympathy towards Pakistan especially in England and other countries. I would even go so far as to say in India many fans would in their heart of hearts love to play a jeet lo dil type series again..

Wow, you really have gone soft on India. What's happened to you?

 

[PakLFC]

What?

There were bomb blasts when the world XI toured?

This is ridiculous logic anyway as India, Bang and SL all suffer from hug amounts of terrorism and yet international cricket has not stopped. Germany suffered an attack where a champions league team was bombed...not only did football in the country continue, the match went ahead too!

If cricket is to be banned in Pakistan, then apply that rule all over the planet and see how many countries are left standing.

Nothing ridiculous about it at all. It is no coincidence that whenever chances of playing Cricket in Pak improve some bomb blasts start in the country. Oh c'mon man! Pak has suffered far more bomb blasts then Bang and Sri over the past 20 yeas, there is no comparison at all.

"If cricket is to be banned in Pakistan, then apply that rule all over the planet and see how many countries are left standing." I don't see any bomb blasts in England, Australia, NZ, RSA or the Caribbean etc. What on earth are you talking about? Pak is still not fully safe to host matches and players will continue to resist visiting until there is war in neighbouring Afghanistan. That is just the way it is.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There is nothing to hate.

I can incite a mob outside my house right now by saying certain person went against the teachings of Muhammad (PBUH) and abused him.

You would be hard pressed to incite such a mob in France on basis of being Catholic.

Till the country becomes more tolerant and liberal, you can keep trying to convince others that it is safe but they will most likely not believe it.

Not the right example, you can incite mobs against certain minorities in India by claiming they killed a cow or molested a high caste girl, but that doesn't affect the attraction of IPL for foreign players. I think it would be better to stick to war on terror being the big factor if you want to make your case for Pakistan being unsafe.

 

[the Great Khan]

Wow, you really have gone soft on India. What's happened to you?

soft? lol..pragmatic would probably be the best way to describe it. Plus I notice there are a lot more younger ppers on here now so perhaps a more measured approach is better for now..until the next time lol

 

[emranabbas]

Fact is we don’t have much support from the likes of ICC, India, England, Australia and they don’t careless about cricket in Pakistan

The big three are happy playing each other

We have some support from Sri Lanka, West Indies, South Africans, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh
Who are willing to play PSL in Dubai and Pakistan

We should shift PSL to Pakistan with whoever is willing and try not to beg who aren’t

PSL will eventually grow bigger and bigger

These last two games have been thousands times better than games in Dubai

 

[English August]

How many times does one need to remind the Pakistani posters that whenever there is a break in cricketing relationship between India and Pakistan, it has always been started by Pakistan?

After the 1992 Babri Masjid incident, guess which team refused to tour India?
After successful completion of IPL1 with full participation from Pak players, guess which board refused to provide NOC to its players? The highest wicket taker in IPL1, a Pakistani bowler, instead chose to abuse all Hindus! Some folks here refused to believe me. When I posted the youtube evidence, they started crying! (or started telling me what the idiot meant to say instead )

Finally, is there any evidence to suggest that BCCI is trying to isolate PCB? How exactly is it doing it? What's stopping PCB from playing whoever it wants to play with as many times as it wants? All BCCI is saying is it won't play with Pak in bilateral series.

Back in 60s and 70s, amidst all the wars India and Pak fought in 1965 and 1971, India and Pak did not play any cricket with each other. Did that stop Pak from playing with England, Aus, WI etc.? So what's different this time?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Not the right example, you can incite mobs against certain minorities in India by claiming they killed a cow or molested a high caste girl, but that doesn't affect the attraction of IPL for foreign players. I think it would be better to stick to war on terror being the big factor if you want to make your case for Pakistan being unsafe.

The case for India is completely different.

No one would go to India if the money offered was peanuts.

The finanical windfall is a big reason teams tend to ignore nations like India even if they are a tad insecure.

I am sure if 20 million dollars was offered by PSL to most of these cricketers they would change their mind.

My point was based on countries that are perceived as modern and tolerant, rather than a struggling India which cannot even host Olympic games yet.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The case for India is completely different.

No one would go to India if the money offered was peanuts.

The finanical windfall is a big reason teams tend to ignore nations like India even if they are a tad insecure.

I am sure if 20 million dollars was offered by PSL to most of these cricketers they would change their mind.

My point was based on countries that are perceived as modern and tolerant, rather than a struggling India which cannot even host Olympic games yet.

Unfortunately cricket is often played in third world countries as these are the former colonies, so unless modern and tolerant Aus/NZ and England want to play cricket among themselves, compromises need to be made to keep the game alive. As was done previously to save England's tour to India following the Mumbai terror episode.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The case for India is completely different.

No one would go to India if the money offered was peanuts.

The finanical windfall is a big reason teams tend to ignore nations like India even if they are a tad insecure.

I am sure if 20 million dollars was offered by PSL to most of these cricketers they would change their mind.

My point was based on countries that are perceived as modern and tolerant, rather than a struggling India which cannot even host Olympic games yet.

India has hosted various international events apart from cricket.

Lots of countries have not hosted olympics. That is no measure of success.

 

[barah_admi]

Nothing ridiculous about it at all. It is no coincidence that whenever chances of playing Cricket in Pak improve some bomb blasts start in the country. Oh c'mon man! Pak has suffered far more bomb blasts then Bang and Sri over the past 20 yeas, there is no comparison at all.

"If cricket is to be banned in Pakistan, then apply that rule all over the planet and see how many countries are left standing." I don't see any bomb blasts in England, Australia, NZ, RSA or the Caribbean etc. What on earth are you talking about? Pak is still not fully safe to host matches and players will continue to resist visiting until there is war in neighbouring Afghanistan. That is just the way it is.

You said any time cricket is about to return to Pakistan, bomb blasts happen. I asked you a simple question, when were there blasts when the world XI arrived? Or the recently concluded PSL pay offs? Can you answer those questions and back up your claims?

 

[barah_admi]

There is nothing to hate.

I can incite a mob outside my house right now by saying certain person went against the teachings of Muhammad (PBUH) and abused him.

You would be hard pressed to incite such a mob in France on basis of being Catholic.

Till the country becomes more tolerant and liberal, you can keep trying to convince others that it is safe but they will most likely not believe it.

What has this got to do with cricket?

I mentioned a very simple point. I said numerous countries experience terrorism, Pak is by noway unique to that. I also said many countries have experienced sports teams or individuals being attacked and in some cases, killed (several south american states). Then I gave several examples, one of which was a very recent occurrence. Just last year in fact, where a football team bus was bombed in Germany. Yes bombed, not shot at but bombed, fire, explosion, do you understand?

Yet, not only did the match go ahead, with shell shocked players shaking their way around the football pitch, there was never even any talk of international sport in the country being stopped, let alone any action taken.

So can you tell me, why Pakistan's situation is so unique? I don't want hypotheticals, I want you to give me concrete fact as I have done for you.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

What has this got to do with cricket?

I mentioned a very simple point. I said numerous countries experience terrorism, Pak is by noway unique to that. I also said many countries have experienced sports teams or individuals being attacked and in some cases, killed (several south american states). Then I gave several examples, one of which was a very recent occurrence. Just last year in fact, where a football team bus was bombed in Germany. Yes bombed, not shot at but bombed, fire, explosion, do you understand?

Yet, not only did the match go ahead, with shell shocked players shaking their way around the football pitch, there was never even any talk of international sport in the country being stopped, let alone any action taken.

So can you tell me, why Pakistan's situation is so unique? I don't want hypotheticals, I want you to give me concrete fact as I have done for you.

Most of your argument is based on why others perceive Pakistan as dangerous and not Germany as dangerous even though bombs went off there as well.

Ask yourself the same question.

It seems like you want an answer that you have already predecided in your mind.

There is practically no solution for someone practicing confirmation bias.

But just to humor you.

No one takes a country seriously which is corrupt, 3rd world and has hordes of religious fanatics existing in it.

Pakistan will only get out of such perception as it grows gradually over the years.

You might label it as hypocrisy or racism or anything you want, but the truth lies in the fact that people are less likely to believe an unstable nation.

 

[PakLFC]

You said any time cricket is about to return to Pakistan, bomb blasts happen. I asked you a simple question, when were there blasts when the world XI arrived? Or the recently concluded PSL pay offs? Can you answer those questions and back up your claims?

They may not happen during matches you suggested but occur whenever there is some chance of an international team arriving. The purpose is clear, the enemy does not want the return of international teams in Pak.

 

[barah_admi]

They may not happen during matches you suggested but occur whenever there is some chance of an international team arriving. The purpose is clear, the enemy does not want the return of international teams in Pak.

International teams have arrived and bomb blasts of any nature are very low these days. Again, none of this is unique to Pakistan. or is it? Can you tell me why international cricket is played in India, which (as of 2016) was only 1 point below Pak on the terrorism index? In the past it has been higher, as has the death toll from terrorism.

 

[CanadianG00se]

It's not just money though. Like I said, there are other factors/variables out there that I mentioned, which still seems to affect Pakistan more than others.



Lot's of Indian revisionism going on here. Let me counter your points one by one.

1. England was just as bad in the 1980's with an incredibly high death toll when the IRA-era was going on. It might surprise you, but you'll find that more than 2000 civilians died in just over a decade. Did anyone stop going there in that period? FYI most of the leadership were also war-criminals worldwide by the definition.

With respect to India, don't you have major insurgencies going on against Maoist groups and tribals groups in frontier states? Well guess what: we also are fighting a war against radicalized tribal groups in frontier states. It's as far from Karachi/Lahore as Kashmir is from Delhi. Does anyone stop playing in Delhi cause there's cross-border firing in the Poonch sector?

If you're talking about mistakes that we have made, I'm not gonna sit here and justify the past. The APS attack was a turning point in how our polity looked at radicalization, and there have been significant steps towards de-radicalization. Point is that there's an active effort being made to ensure that cricket doesn't return to Pakistan; I find it interesting how everytime there's some positive news about cricket coming back to Pakistan, there's a bomb blast almost like clockwork. To be fair, an attack seemingly takes place everytime conciliatory moves are made by India/Pakistan governments to each other, but this is something that can be overcome if there's the will for peace.

2/3. There are organized mobs that lynch people out in India as well today and minorities are treated like ****. India today isn't the India of 20 years ago where there was a strong secular ethos that Pakistani liberals used to look at with envy. You can keep trying to subvert that fact, but if you really cared you'd be looking within to see how you can de-radicalize your society rather than justify it on a Pakistani-focussed cricket forum. Point is that there is very little media attention paid to that relative to the ills of Pakistan in the world media.

4. PCB pulled Pakistani players out of the IPL cause there were fears about the players safety. Yes, in retrospection we could have kept them on, but don't forget that there was a serious chance of all-out war after the Mumbai attacks between the two country, led by your media which has already decided that attacking Pakistan was the only way to teach it a lesson. And even after that we played a series in India in 2012, based on a reciprocity agreement. The BCCI broke that agreement, not us.



That's true! I shudder to think what would have happened; I'm not overstating that could have led to an all out war between the countries. PSL is a great chance to change perspectives on Pakistan.

You come to that conclusion without ever stepping foot in India or talking to minorities in India.

Indian minorities are treated well at least i can speak for myself and my family and my community in Mumbai. Few cases of lynching doesnt mean all muslims in India are illtreated. Get your facts right and kindly stop speaking for us minority.

 

[barah_admi]

Most of your argument is based on why others perceive Pakistan as dangerous and not Germany as dangerous even though bombs went off there as well.

Ask yourself the same question.

It seems like you want an answer that you have already predecided in your mind.

There is practically no solution for someone practicing confirmation bias.

But just to humor you.

No one takes a country seriously which is corrupt, 3rd world and has hordes of religious fanatics existing in it.

Pakistan will only get out of such perception as it grows gradually over the years.

You might label it as hypocrisy or racism or anything you want, but the truth lies in the fact that people are less likely to believe an unstable nation.

Ok, you are clearly an anti-Pak hater/troll or something.

You started of claiming I was talking about perception and used it as a negative (although I only mentioned facts) and then you ended it talking about perception and using that as an argument against cricket in Pakistan.

And you're talking about Pakistan as if its the only 3rd world country on the planet and the only one with supposed religious fanatics. What evidence do you have that Pakistan has "hordes of religious fanatics?"

How many times has a religious party won the electoral majority? If we're talking about that, then in my life time alone India has elected the BJP, a widely regarded religious party, to power 3 separate occasions. It also has just as many terror attacks as Pakistan, in the last decade, it even placed above Pakistan and just below Aghanistan and iraq in terms of sheer number of deaths due to terror attacks. So why was cricket never stopped there?

As you can see, I havent mentioned perception, just facts.

Can you actually answer the question this time?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Ok, you are clearly an anti-Pak hater/troll or something.

You started of claiming I was talking about perception and used it as a negative (although I only mentioned facts) and then you ended it talking about perception and using that as an argument against cricket in Pakistan.

And you're talking about Pakistan as if its the only 3rd world country on the planet and the only one with supposed religious fanatics. What evidence do you have that Pakistan has "hordes of religious fanatics?"

How many times has a religious party won the electoral majority? If we're talking about that, then in my life time alone India has elected the BJP, a widely regarded religious party, to power 3 separate occasions. It also has just as many terror attacks as Pakistan, in the last decade, it even placed above Pakistan and just below Aghanistan and iraq in terms of sheer number of deaths due to terror attacks. So why was cricket never stopped there?

As you can see, I havent mentioned perception, just facts.

Can you actually answer the question this time?

The thing with your facts are that you believe people (foreigners in this instance) should view it with your tinted glasses.

That is unlikely to happen and we both know it.

So we have to look into factors why similar events around the globe do not cause blockade of sporting events.

There are only a few logical answers.

1. Pakistan is not safe
2. Pakistan is safe but foreigners are not ready to deem it safe or assume its safe.
3. Pakistan is very safe and only hypocrites and racists exist on the planet when it comes to Pakistan.

If we take number 3 to be true, thats fine too. I dont want to force my personal thoughts on you. If number 3 helps you sleep better at night, then by all means use number 3 for your logic.

I believe its number 2 (funnily enough there are plenty of Pakistanis who might even opt for number 1).

And when i look at facts around the globe, i believe that it is all about perception.

I have no qualms about you choosing number 3 but since u adamantly claimed that number 3 is gospel truth I got into a discussion with you which I clearly now feel was stupid since you have already made your mind up.

Regarding India, i already have made my thoughts clear on the matter. If u are a struggling country, and u flash dollars, then every man has a price.

Trust me, a 20 million dollar payday will also change perception of Pakistan for a lot of foreigners.

 

[Railu Katta]

There is nothing to hate.

I can incite a mob outside my house right now by saying certain person went against the teachings of Muhammad (PBUH) and abused him.

You would be hard pressed to incite such a mob in France on basis of being Catholic.

Till the country becomes more tolerant and liberal, you can keep trying to convince others that it is safe but they will most likely not believe it.

Pathetic example!!! Come to any Southern state in the US and say something about Jesus and see what happens. Or go to Italy and badmouth the pipe in the Vatican. Does that mean US and Italy are unsafe?


But I expected this from you. You're from the line of pp experts who think Pakistan is a warzone.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Pathetic example!!! Come to any Southern state in the US and say something about Jesus and see what happens. Or go to Italy and badmouth the pipe in the Vatican. Does that mean US and Italy are unsafe?


But I expected this from you. You're from the line of pp experts who think Pakistan is a warzone.

Sure.

Still wont be lynched like Salman Taseer in the name of Allah.

 

[Rana]

Woah so you are comparing Pakistan with France now?

Lahore, Islamabad and Karachi are probably safer places than Paris these days

 

[www787]

The thing with your facts are that you believe people (foreigners in this instance) should view it with your tinted glasses.

That is unlikely to happen and we both know it.

So we have to look into factors why similar events around the globe do not cause blockade of sporting events.

There are only a few logical answers.

1. Pakistan is not safe
2. Pakistan is safe but foreigners are not ready to deem it safe or assume its safe.
3. Pakistan is very safe and only hypocrites and racists exist on the planet when it comes to Pakistan.

If we take number 3 to be true, thats fine too. I dont want to force my personal thoughts on you. If number 3 helps you sleep better at night, then by all means use number 3 for your logic.

I believe its number 2 (funnily enough there are plenty of Pakistanis who might even opt for number 1).

And when i look at facts around the globe, i believe that it is all about perception.

I have no qualms about you choosing number 3 but since u adamantly claimed that number 3 is gospel truth I got into a discussion with you which I clearly now feel was stupid since you have already made your mind up.

Regarding India, i already have made my thoughts clear on the matter. If u are a struggling country, and u flash dollars, then every man has a price.

Trust me, a 20 million dollar payday will also change perception of Pakistan for a lot of foreigners.

You are trying too hard.

 

[Railu Katta]

Sure.

Still wont be lynched like Salman Taseer in the name of Allah.

I can list so many examples from the US. You have no frigging idea. I am gonna ignore you before I use some not so nice words. But whatever makes you sleep at night.

 

[www787]

If PSL is ready to host psl with only a handful of players then they can try to enforce "Must play in Pakistan" clause. Many players will simply wont go to Pakistan.

With cricket being played in lot of places in feb march, the pool is anyway restricted.

Those willing to come will come but I think hosting in Pakistan, only if PCB can adaquetly host, is bigger than having some has been player playing PSL in UAE.