When will Pakistan reach 6th in ODI rankings?

[Ellipsism]

Depends which team PAK plays. And which team AUS plays. It's clear that, without Strack, their attack is nothing special, for PAK it can be even easier as I expect Babar, Malik & Sarfu to dominate Zampa.

For PAK, Umar has to play while Imad & Nawaz style spin won't work in AUS. Imad must give way for Yasir (or whoever the best Leggi is - may be Irfan). Finally, Azhar has to get injured - his captaincy is not going to work in AUS. And, PAK is at AUS club level in terms of fielding - in next 4 months, it has to reach grade or better Shield level; otherwise on those large grounds Aussies has a 35 run handicap only for their running.

It's possible, if AUS rests Strack - rest are quite manageable.

Pakistan may also have to negate Pattinson and Cummins along with Starc

 

[Mamoon]

Maybe in the last decade. Players like Glen Maxwell came out of OZ love for test cricket? Yeah right!

Prioritizing one particular format doesn't mean you neglect the others. That is why all the true great players are great in all formats.

Maxwell would love to be an Australian Test great, more so than Limited Overs success.

Nonetheless, my point is/was actually more from the perspective of the fans. Australian and English fans in general prefer Ashes over anything, including the World Cup. On the contrary, majority of the subcontinent fans (not the cricket nerds posting on PakPassion) value the World Cup over any Test series.

For example, the 2011 World Cup victory is more memorable for India than winning the Test series in England in 2007, even though the latter was harder to achieve.

 

[Haroon786]

Prioritizing one particular format doesn't mean you neglect the others. That is why all the true great players are great in all formats.

Maxwell would love to be an Australian Test great, more so than Limited Overs success.

Nonetheless, my point is/was actually more from the perspective of the fans. Australian and English fans in general prefer Ashes over anything, including the World Cup. On the contrary, majority of the subcontinent fans (not the cricket nerds posting on PakPassion) value the World Cup over any Test series.

For example, the 2011 World Cup victory is more memorable for India than winning the Test series in England in 2007, even though the latter was harder to achieve.

That is not true whatsoever, there have been plenty of great players from the 70s, 80s and even the 90s who haven't the same success in ODIs as they have in Tests.

Dual format performance is only a modern concept and it shouldn't be a brush to paint all eras with.

 

[Mamoon]

That is not true whatsoever, there have been plenty of great players from the 70s, 80s and even the 90s who haven't the same success in ODIs as they have in Tests.

Dual format performance is only a modern concept and it shouldn't be a brush to paint all eras with.

That is not true for the modern game. Perhaps I should have made myself a bit more clear. I'm speaking of contemporary cricketers not players from the 70's and 80's, because Limited Overs cricket was not as important back than as it is now.

In today's era, you cannot be a true great player unless you are top quality in all three formats, regardless of whether you are a batsman or a bowler.

However, even if we speak of the players of the 80's or 90's, players who did well in both formats are generally held to a higher pedestal. Someone like Viv Richards is definitely a better well-rounded batsman than someone like Gavaskar simply because he was great in both Tests and ODIs.

Another example is Mike Atherton. He was as good a Test opener as anyone, but he is not remembered in the same vein as some of the other players who excelled in both Tests and ODIs.

However, performing across multiple formats has definitely become more important in the last 10-15 years than they were 25-30 years ago.

 

[Rayyman]

InshAllah in 2017, we will be at #6 or higher in the rankings.

 

[Haroon786]

That is not true for the modern game. Perhaps I should have made myself a bit more clear. I'm speaking of contemporary cricketers not players from the 70's and 80's, because Limited Overs cricket was not as important back than as it is now.

In today's era, you cannot be a true great player unless you are top quality in all three formats, regardless of whether you are a batsman or a bowler.

However, even if we speak of the players of the 80's or 90's, players who did well in both formats are generally held to a higher pedestal. Someone like Viv Richards is definitely a better well-rounded batsman than someone like Gavaskar simply because he was great in both Tests and ODIs.

Another example is Mike Atherton. He was as good a Test opener as anyone, but he is not remembered in the same vein as some of the other players who excelled in both Tests and ODIs.

However, performing across multiple formats has definitely become more important in the last 10-15 years than they were 25-30 years ago.

Again I disagree, as per your definition there isn't a single player who is truly great since no player has mastered all 3 formats today, for example Kohli is great in LOIs but he isn't top notch in Tests, Smith is great in ODIs and Tests but he is mediocre in IT20s, there isn't any such player that is great in all 3 formats. I think it is important to perform in Tests and ODIs these days but IT20s quite frankly whilst entertaining are not really serious in cricketing terms.

In the general sense, I agree that performance in both formats entitles players to a greater level of prestige than players with performance in one format, however, certain exceptions have to be made. GOAT candidates like Imran Khan, Malcolm Marshall and Dale Steyn all belong on the highest pedestal possible, such is their calibre and performance par excellence in one format (Tests) that their performance or lack thereof in ODIs does not really detriment their legend.

 

[TQ89]

AB de villiers is th only current player who in my opinion who is equally good in all three formats. The other one was mike hussey.

Barring them, most great players are good in two formats at best (Root ,Kohli, Amla etc).

 

[Haroon786]

AB de villiers is th only current player who in my opinion who is equally good in all three formats. The other one was mike hussey.

Barring them, most great players are good in two formats at best (Root ,Kohli, Amla etc).

AB hasn't been stellar in IT20s though.

Hussey was good in all 3 formats, could even say great in LOIs but he lacked the longevity and he certainly wasn't more than good in Tests - can't really classify him as being great in all 3 formats.

 

[Mamoon]

Again I disagree, as per your definition there isn't a single player who is truly great since no player has mastered all 3 formats today, for example Kohli is great in LOIs but he isn't top notch in Tests, Smith is great in ODIs and Tests but he is mediocre in IT20s, there isn't any such player that is great in all 3 formats. I think it is important to perform in Tests and ODIs these days but IT20s quite frankly whilst entertaining are not really serious in cricketing terms.

In the general sense, I agree that performance in both formats entitles players to a greater level of prestige than players with performance in one format, however, certain exceptions have to be made. GOAT candidates like Imran Khan, Malcolm Marshall and Dale Steyn all belong on the highest pedestal possible, such is their calibre and performance par excellence in one format (Tests) that their performance or lack thereof in ODIs does not really detriment their legend.

If a modern day cricketer truly masters all three formats, i.e. becomes an ATG in each format individually, he will enter a very exclusive list and will surely be one of the greatest ATG cricketer of all time.

However, mastering one format and being very good in the others is good enough to be an ATG, with Tests holding more value of course.

What is not good enough anymore is to be good ATG in one format only (even if it is Tests) and be crap in other formats.

Steyn is a legend in Tests but a lot of people, including me, have trouble rating him higher than the bowlers who excelled in both Tests and ODIs.

I would rate Marshall, Hadlee, Imran, Wasim, Ambrose etc. higher than Steyn because they were top class in both Tests and ODIs.

 

[Haroon786]

If a modern day cricketer truly masters all three formats, i.e. becomes an ATG in each format individually, he will enter a very exclusive list and will surely be one of the greatest ATG cricketer of all time.

However, mastering one format and being very good in the others is good enough to be an ATG, with Tests holding more value of course.

What is not good enough anymore is to be good ATG in one format only (even if it is Tests) and be crap in other formats.

Steyn is a legend in Tests but a lot of people, including me, have trouble rating him higher than the bowlers who excelled in both Tests and ODIs.

I would rate Marshall, Hadlee, Imran, Wasim, Ambrose etc. higher than Steyn because they were top class in both Tests and ODIs.

So, you now agree that being great in 2 formats is enough to become an ATG in the modern context.

I would agree that Hadlee, Wasim and Ambrose were better than Steyn combined formats, however, were IK and Malcolm better than Steyn in ODIs ? To me they didn't really care about ODIs contemporaneously for most games, for example see IK's difference in bowling average in WCs compared to normal ODIs.

 

[MMHS]

So, you now agree that being great in 2 formats is enough to become an ATG in the modern context.

I would agree that Hadlee, Wasim and Ambrose were better than Steyn combined formats, however, were IK and Malcolm better than Steyn in ODIs ? To me they didn't really care about ODIs contemporaneously for most games, for example see IK's difference in bowling average in WCs compared to normal ODIs.

Imran was not only better, he was better by some margin.

What you are looking at is his CricInfo profile. His career was in 5 parts - from 71 to 75 a high society boy who costed Aftab Balooch a spot in PAK team for his contacts. From 76 to 83 a devastating fast bowler & a good batsman. From 83 to 85 an injured allrounder who made the team only as batsman & scored 300+ in 83 wc at 60+ average, then averaged 50+ against Lillee & Lawson in AUS. From 86 to 88 again a fast bowler who became Ranked 1 at 35. From 88 to 92 a struggling medium pacer who opted to bat in top order.

In that mix, Imran had his first 100 ODI with 119 wickets at <20 average & 3.5 economy - was the best pacer of 1987 WC & one of the best of 1979 WC. After that, he retiered & when came back at 36, his bowling was gone - hence its average of 26+

But, in contrary, his last 100 ODI has a batting stats of close to 40/80 in late 80s & early 90s which is equivalent to something like 50/100 in modern era!!!!!

 

[MMHS]

I think, PCB needs to arrange few ODI with SAF, NZ & SRL/BD outside FTP if PAK is to improve ranking. As of now, if WI wins one match against SRL (& both against ZIMBOKs), PAK will be again 9th. Then WI has home series with ENG; PAK has away series with AUS. The 2nd ODI win has ensured that with current FTP BD won't go down beyond 8th while Lanka doesn't have many matches (has against SAF - won't cost them much for heavy defeat) therefore PAK's other option is to win 5-0 or 4-1 against Aussies at their home.

I think, arranging few ODI with BD & SRL during IPL & then few matches against Kiwis/SAF just before SEP cut off is the better idea than trying to bank on 4-1 in AUS.

 

[Hamza_]

I think, PCB needs to arrange few ODI with SAF, NZ & SRL/BD outside FTP if PAK is to improve ranking. As of now, if WI wins one match against SRL (& both against ZIMBOKs), PAK will be again 9th. Then WI has home series with ENG; PAK has away series with AUS. The 2nd ODI win has ensured that with current FTP BD won't go down beyond 8th while Lanka doesn't have many matches (has against SAF - won't cost them much for heavy defeat) therefore PAK's other option is to win 5-0 or 4-1 against Aussies at their home.

I think, arranging few ODI with BD & SRL during IPL & then few matches against Kiwis/SAF just before SEP cut off is the better idea than trying to bank on 4-1 in AUS.

I think we have a better chance of beating SAF and NZ. Aussies are too good at home, SRL has also been pathetic off late and we can win against them pretty much easily. I think we will loose against Aussies by 3-2

 

[MMHS]

I think we have a better chance of beating SAF and NZ. Aussies are too good at home, SRL has also been pathetic off late and we can win against them pretty much easily. I think we will loose against Aussies by 3-2

If AUS plays just about 7/8 of their regulars, it will be difficult for PAK to make it even 4-1. AUS at home is totally different beast.

 

[Hamza_]

If AUS plays just about 7/8 of their regulars, it will be difficult for PAK to make it even 4-1. AUS at home is totally different beast.

Only hope is for our bowlers to somehow choke aussies.

 

[Haroon786]

Imran was not only better, he was better by some margin.

What you are looking at is his CricInfo profile. His career was in 5 parts - from 71 to 75 a high society boy who costed Aftab Balooch a spot in PAK team for his contacts. From 76 to 83 a devastating fast bowler & a good batsman. From 83 to 85 an injured allrounder who made the team only as batsman & scored 300+ in 83 wc at 60+ average, then averaged 50+ against Lillee & Lawson in AUS. From 86 to 88 again a fast bowler who became Ranked 1 at 35. From 88 to 92 a struggling medium pacer who opted to bat in top order.

In that mix, Imran had his first 100 ODI with 119 wickets at <20 average & 3.5 economy - was the best pacer of 1987 WC & one of the best of 1979 WC. After that, he retiered & when came back at 36, his bowling was gone - hence its average of 26+

But, in contrary, his last 100 ODI has a batting stats of close to 40/80 in late 80s & early 90s which is equivalent to something like 50/100 in modern era!!!!!

I am inclined to agree that he was better, particularly as a cricketer in ODIs but what about the modern fans obsessed with stats saying that IK's average is the same as Steyn's in ODIs ?

 

[MMHS]

Only hope is for our bowlers to somehow choke aussies.

Actually, that's where my biggest concern is. Against those hopeless West Indians Imad & Nawaz ran riot, even Mian became best all-rounder. But, In AUS, those 25 overs are not going to do much.

PAK's best chance is to bring Yasir in the game as wicket taking leg spinner & use Aamir, Sohail, Wahab/Irfan as out an out pacer. Hasan can be the 3rd option, but his height is not suitable. PAK may take another risk of using 2 of Yamin, Fahim & Aamd with 2 genuine pacers & Yasir; but don't think they'll drop both Imad & Nawaz.

Besides, AUS grounds are large - this running between the wickets will cost 10-15 runs, out fielding another 20-25 runs compared to Aussies - that's almost 35-40 runs handicap.

Third major issue is, if anything, AUS is vulnerable while defending totals, for lack of quality spinner & back up pacers; besides their explosive batting sometimes back fires when setting a target. in this series, SAF made fun of chasing against them, 290 in 36, 371 in 49, 170 in 37 overs; last summer IND chase 300+ with some margin.

Before Arthur days, PAK was by far the worst chasing team, which almost fores them to bat first - this has to change in AUS. PAK with their fielding, will not defend almost any total against a lineup that has Warner, Khwaja, Smith, Baily in top 4 & then Wade, Marsh, Max, Faulkner, at 6, 7, 8 & 9 - ON TOP OF THAT, ADD ANOTHER 35 FOR CUPTAN Azhar - basically, I am asking PAK to post 375 batting first to win an ODI.

Best & only chance for PAK is to pick 4 wicket taking bowlers, bowl first & get Aussies off guard - may be all-out for 275 or lower & then chase.

Honestly speaking, things might change in 5 months, but as of now, Azhar's moods operandi won't take PAK beyond 8th.

 

[saeed5646]

Actually, that's where my biggest concern is. Against those hopeless West Indians Imad & Nawaz ran riot, even Mian became best all-rounder. But, In AUS, those 25 overs are not going to do much.

PAK's best chance is to bring Yasir in the game as wicket taking leg spinner & use Aamir, Sohail, Wahab/Irfan as out an out pacer. Hasan can be the 3rd option, but his height is not suitable. PAK may take another risk of using 2 of Yamin, Fahim & Aamd with 2 genuine pacers & Yasir; but don't think they'll drop both Imad & Nawaz.

Besides, AUS grounds are large - this running between the wickets will cost 10-15 runs, out fielding another 20-25 runs compared to Aussies - that's almost 35-40 runs handicap.

Third major issue is, if anything, AUS is vulnerable while defending totals, for lack of quality spinner & back up pacers; besides their explosive batting sometimes back fires when setting a target. in this series, SAF made fun of chasing against them, 290 in 36, 371 in 49, 170 in 37 overs; last summer IND chase 300+ with some margin.

Before Arthur days, PAK was by far the worst chasing team, which almost fores them to bat first - this has to change in AUS. PAK with their fielding, will not defend almost any total against a lineup that has Warner, Khwaja, Smith, Baily in top 4 & then Wade, Marsh, Max, Faulkner, at 6, 7, 8 & 9 - ON TOP OF THAT, ADD ANOTHER 35 FOR CUPTAN Azhar - basically, I am asking PAK to post 375 batting first to win an ODI.

Best & only chance for PAK is to pick 4 wicket taking bowlers, bowl first & get Aussies off guard - may be all-out for 275 or lower & then chase.

Honestly speaking, things might change in 5 months, but as of now, Azhar's moods operandi won't take PAK beyond 8th.

Credit:Talha syed

No worries bro Also a tri-series in Ire next May for Bangladesh - so update line up below:

Pakistan
---------
2 ODIs at Home VS WI (On going series)
6 ODIs in Aus
3 ODIs in WI
Champions Trophy
3 ODIs in Bangladesh

Bangladesh
-------------
3 ODIs at Home VS Eng
3 ODIs in NZ
Tri-Series iN Ireland (2 ODI's VS Ire & 2 ODI's VS NZ)
Champions Trophy
3 ODIs at Home VS Pak
3 ODIs in Aus

WI
---
2 ODIs in UAE VS Pak (Ongoing)
3 ODIs at Home VS Eng
3 ODIs at Home VS Pak
5 ODIs at Home VS Ind

Pak: 17 Matches (min); 19 Matches (max)
Bang: 19 Matches (min); 21 Matches (max)
WI: 13 Matches

Plenty of matches for any of these teams to either make up for lost points, or to mess things up!

 

[saeed5646]

Question:How many points Pak will lose if they get 6-0 white wash in Australia????


Answer by talha bro

Difficult to predict since the difference is huge between the 2 sides in the ranking - but based on the ICC predictor, not many. 2 or 3 points.

Thats a good points actually

the FTP said 6 ODIs in Aus, however, I just had a look at the schedule for Paks tour of Aus and looks like we

will only be playing 5 ODIs down under InshAllah

 

[Hamza_]

Actually, that's where my biggest concern is. Against those hopeless West Indians Imad & Nawaz ran riot, even Mian became best all-rounder. But, In AUS, those 25 overs are not going to do much.

PAK's best chance is to bring Yasir in the game as wicket taking leg spinner & use Aamir, Sohail, Wahab/Irfan as out an out pacer. Hasan can be the 3rd option, but his height is not suitable. PAK may take another risk of using 2 of Yamin, Fahim & Aamd with 2 genuine pacers & Yasir; but don't think they'll drop both Imad & Nawaz.

Besides, AUS grounds are large - this running between the wickets will cost 10-15 runs, out fielding another 20-25 runs compared to Aussies - that's almost 35-40 runs handicap.

Third major issue is, if anything, AUS is vulnerable while defending totals, for lack of quality spinner & back up pacers; besides their explosive batting sometimes back fires when setting a target. in this series, SAF made fun of chasing against them, 290 in 36, 371 in 49, 170 in 37 overs; last summer IND chase 300+ with some margin.

Before Arthur days, PAK was by far the worst chasing team, which almost fores them to bat first - this has to change in AUS. PAK with their fielding, will not defend almost any total against a lineup that has Warner, Khwaja, Smith, Baily in top 4 & then Wade, Marsh, Max, Faulkner, at 6, 7, 8 & 9 - ON TOP OF THAT, ADD ANOTHER 35 FOR CUPTAN Azhar - basically, I am asking PAK to post 375 batting first to win an ODI.

Best & only chance for PAK is to pick 4 wicket taking bowlers, bowl first & get Aussies off guard - may be all-out for 275 or lower & then chase.

Honestly speaking, things might change in 5 months, but as of now, Azhar's moods operandi won't take PAK beyond 8th.

Brilliant analysis. Exactly my sentiments, Need to choke them somewhere 250-280 with Aamir taking care of openers up front. We are pathetic at defending totals particularly anything below 300 these days. Maybe due to brilliant captaincy by Azhar contributed by poor fielding. Hasan Ali looks like sometimes Bilawal Bhatti with less pace so not sure if he is a long term option. Sohail can swing the ball but lacks pace and can go for runs however he is a wicket taking bowler specially if conditions help him even one bit. Maybe add Amad Butt?

BTW sorry for the comment other night had no intentions to hurt you buddy.

 

[MMHS]

Brilliant analysis. Exactly my sentiments, Need to choke them somewhere 250-280 with Aamir taking care of openers up front. We are pathetic at defending totals particularly anything below 300 these days. Maybe due to brilliant captaincy by Azhar contributed by poor fielding. Hasan Ali looks like sometimes Bilawal Bhatti with less pace so not sure if he is a long term option. Sohail can swing the ball but lacks pace and can go for runs however he is a wicket taking bowler specially if conditions help him even one bit. Maybe add Amad Butt?

BTW sorry for the comment other night had no intentions to hurt you buddy.

Forget it. It was 3 days before yesterday.

 

[Mamoon]

So, you now agree that being great in 2 formats is enough to become an ATG in the modern context.

I would agree that Hadlee, Wasim and Ambrose were better than Steyn combined formats, however, were IK and Malcolm better than Steyn in ODIs ? To me they didn't really care about ODIs contemporaneously for most games, for example see IK's difference in bowling average in WCs compared to normal ODIs.

Imran was a brilliant ODI bowler.

 

[Haroon786]

Imran was a brilliant ODI bowler.

Yes, as per [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]' post, but only those who have seen him can really comment. I am a big IK fan and I understand why he would have a misleading ODI average. Unfortunately, the stats obsessed masses of today won't understand why IK is regarded as better than Steyn in ODIs.

 

[MMHS]

Brilliant analysis. Exactly my sentiments, Need to choke them somewhere 250-280 with Aamir taking care of openers up front. We are pathetic at defending totals particularly anything below 300 these days. Maybe due to brilliant captaincy by Azhar contributed by poor fielding. Hasan Ali looks like sometimes Bilawal Bhatti with less pace so not sure if he is a long term option. Sohail can swing the ball but lacks pace and can go for runs however he is a wicket taking bowler specially if conditions help him even one bit. Maybe add Amad Butt?

BTW sorry for the comment other night had no intentions to hurt you buddy.

Last 5 ODI that PAK won against a decent side (3 against SRL, 2 ENG), 4 were chasing & the other one was a blow out by SRL. Otherwise, these days, you don't win posting 315 for just 4 down. Last ODI that PAK won against AUS was chasing - another time failed to chase 233 from 150/3 in 30 overs, in fact couldn't take 2 of Max in last over with 2 wickets at hand. Last ODI that AUS lost at home to SAF was also batting 1st. Only match that Aussies lost in 2015 WC was batting first. Last home Series AUS lost at home was against SRL - twice they lost batting first (I am sure about 1 - can't recall other). Last 3-0 they lost was against NZ - 3 times Kiwis chased over 300. PAK would have won against NZ as well chasing, had Cuptan not allowed Kiwis to post 280+ from 99/6.

These all indicate that PAK MUST plan to chase against Aussies & try to get Aussies out. Only vulnerability in Aussie team is that, sometimes it's brittle - 2/3 quick wickets doesn't make them slowing down, which gives opportunity to get them all out for under per score. But, when they chase, their depth is just too long & robust for almost any target. They once almost chased 383 in India from 200/8 or so.

This might back fire - those are the days of 444 or the last ODI vs SRL; but in general, PAK is better off chasing against professional sides. And, Yasir (or any other wicket taking leggi) MUST have to be in the team & bowling like a Test match (to get middle order out). On those Aussie wickets with this dart attack of 20 overs, PAK actually is risking 445 at least once, if the fielders has a bad day. Azhar simply don't even think of getting a wicket from over No. 11 to 40, which'll work against WI, but not against AUS.

 

[Hamza_]

Last 5 ODI that PAK won against a decent side (3 against SRL, 2 ENG), 4 were chasing & the other one was a blow out by SRL. Otherwise, these days, you don't win posting 315 for just 4 down. Last ODI that PAK won against AUS was chasing - another time failed to chase 233 from 150/3 in 30 overs, in fact couldn't take 2 of Max in last over with 2 wickets at hand. Last ODI that AUS lost at home to SAF was also batting 1st. Only match that Aussies lost in 2015 WC was batting first. Last home Series AUS lost at home was against SRL - twice they lost batting first (I am sure about 1 - can't recall other). Last 3-0 they lost was against NZ - 3 times Kiwis chased over 300. PAK would have won against NZ as well chasing, had Cuptan not allowed Kiwis to post 280+ from 99/6.

These all indicate that PAK MUST plan to chase against Aussies & try to get Aussies out. Only vulnerability in Aussie team is that, sometimes it's brittle - 2/3 quick wickets doesn't make them slowing down, which gives opportunity to get them all out for under per score. But, when they chase, their depth is just too long & robust for almost any target. They once almost chased 383 in India from 200/8 or so.

This might back fire - those are the days of 444 or the last ODI vs SRL; but in general, PAK is better off chasing against professional sides. And, Yasir (or any other wicket taking leggi) MUST have to be in the team & bowling like a Test match (to get middle order out). On those Aussie wickets with this dart attack of 20 overs, PAK actually is risking 445 at least once, if the fielders has a bad day. Azhar simply don't even think of getting a wicket from over No. 11 to 40, which'll work against WI, but not against AUS.

Need atleast 3 wickets in PP. Once you let these aussies get slight edge over you they ensure to make full use of it. Warner has a poor record against us but that is history, Hopefully Aamir can take him out in PP Overs. I hope Azhar dont start proceedings with Imad Wasim there. To be honest while batting first we totally rely on Sharjeel, It seems like when he gets out half of our team is down as all are almost nudgers. Recently Babar has carried the batting since his promotion at 3, Lets see how he fares now. Malik and Sarfraz definitely are more comfortable chasing, And there is a reason for that, Sarfraz and Malik more rely on their batting game plan to score runs which is required to chase runs, Both target bowlers and score with some sort of batting strategy rather than relying on purely Tuk Tuk or Bang Bang strategy which can kill you while chasing as playing few dots can build alot of pressure.

Personally, I dont think ODI Team is as bad as rankings suggest, As you said could have won these matches which were lost due to lapses. Azhar as captain needs to raise his game up as well.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes, as per [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]' post, but only those who have seen him can really comment. I am a big IK fan and I understand why he would have a misleading ODI average. Unfortunately, the stats obsessed masses of today won't understand why IK is regarded as better than Steyn in ODIs.

Steyn is a much worse ODI bowler than his stats suggest. We played a big hand in that of course, when he ran through us multiple times in 2013 thanks to our awful batting lineup at that time. Apart from that he has been a nothing ODI bowler and got owned by Elliot of all people in the World Cup semifinal.

 

[Hamza_]

Steyn is a much worse ODI bowler than his stats suggest. We played a big hand in that of course, when he ran through us multiple times in 2013 thanks to our awful batting lineup at that time. Apart from that he has been a nothing ODI bowler and got owned by Elliot of all people in the World Cup semifinal.

Grant Elliot is actually a very good Limited Overs Player. Bowling average of 30 and Batting Average around 35 is pretty good.

But yes Steyn's stats are inflated in ODIs.

 

[Mamoon]

Grant Elliot is actually a very good Limited Overs Player. Bowling average of 30 and Batting Average around 35 is pretty good.

But yes Steyn's stats are inflated in ODIs.

He is a decent player, but a so-called ATG like Steyn should not be coming second best against a player like Elliot on an occasion like that (World Cup semifinal).

I can't imagine the likes of Wasim, Marshall, Imran, Hadlee, McGrath etc. losing out against Elliot in a situation like that.

 

[msb314]

He is a decent player, but a so-called ATG like Steyn should not be coming second best against a player like Elliot on an occasion like that (World Cup semifinal).

I can't imagine the likes of Wasim, Marshall, Imran, Hadlee, McGrath etc. losing out against Elliot in a situation like that.

Wasim/Waqar got owned by Symonds of all people during the 2003 WC. On a flat pitch and once a batsman is set - anything can happen.

 

[Mamoon]

Wasim/Waqar got owned by Symonds of all people during the 2003 WC. On a flat pitch and once a batsman is set - anything can happen.

Yes, but Steyn has still been a mediocre ODI bowler.

Wasim won the 92 World Cup Final for Pakistan and Waqar was an amazing ODI bowler in his peak.

 

[fazleefridi]

Looks like a distant reality

 

[Hamza_]

Our bowling and late middle order needs serious changes.

 

[Buffet]

Waqar was an amazing ODI bowler in his peak.

Waqar was never an amazing ODI bowler. Till 1994, he took 1.7 wickets per match and gave runs at 4.34 runs per over. That was before his injury. 4.34 runs per over was pretty expensive in early 90s.

Waqar was an amazing test bowler for few years.

 

[Executioner]

He is a decent player, but a so-called ATG like Steyn should not be coming second best against a player like Elliot on an occasion like that (World Cup semifinal).

I can't imagine the likes of Wasim, Marshall, Imran, Hadlee, McGrath etc. losing out against Elliot in a situation like that.

It just needs one good hit to score a six.

Those are all about nerves and a bit of luck. Skills is secondary.

Can Elliot score a test century on a sporting wicket? That's a different thing altogether

 

[JibranAnsari]

Not in near or distant future.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Not anytime soon. Bangladesh have lots of youngsters who're desperate for a spot in the ODI squad, while Pakistan has lots of oldies who have already expired. Not much talent in the pipeline for Pak as well. You need to change domestic cricket and maybe after 5 years something good will happen. Current team might win 1 match or 2, but old people can only take you so far in LOI.

 

[Snatch]

I remember a time when Pakistan was consistently in the top 3 for the ODI rankings.

For the longest time the rankings were:

1. Australia
2. South Africa
3. Pakistan

.

I remember Pakistan always having it over NZ mentally, so even if NZ got in good positions they'd lose to Pakistan. In the last 6-7 years it's been the other way around and NZ seem to always beat Pakistan.

 

[Snatch]

Pakistan vs Bangladesh would be a very challenging ODI series at the moment.

 

[saeed5646]

Not anytime soon. Bangladesh have lots of youngsters who're desperate for a spot in the ODI squad, while Pakistan has lots of oldies who have already expired. Not much talent in the pipeline for Pak as well. You need to change domestic cricket and maybe after 5 years something good will happen. Current team might win 1 match or 2, but old people can only take you so far in LOI.

yeah you are right even afghanistan is better than pak how manage to beat ban in ban one of

odi match that series was close

 

[fazleefridi]

Difference between pakistan(8th), and Sri lanka(6th), is of just 5 points.
Pakistan can easily reach, 6th rank, post CT

 

[Shaik]

And they reach. Congratulations to my parosis

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

They closed near 5th

 

[MoJoJoJo]

if england beat aussies 4-1 and pak beat zim 5-0 then we'll be at 5th position by around 3,4 points margin IA.. good times ahead for pak cricket.. only 8,9 points difference with no 3,4 ranked teams..

 

[Ab Fan]

He is a decent player, but a so-called ATG like Steyn should not be coming second best against a player like Elliot on an occasion like that (World Cup semifinal).

I can't imagine the likes of Wasim, Marshall, Imran, Hadlee, McGrath etc. losing out against Elliot in a situation like that.

Waqar 22 run over against Ajay Jadeja, who was also a decent player only on an occasion like WC quarter final against an opposition like India??

 

[saeed5646]

Alot of humble pie for some in this thread.hopefully we will achieve at the end of this year

 

[Hasan123]

Next target is the top 4 inshallah.

 

[Square Drive]

We will be top 4 in all formats by the end of 2020. Called it a while ago. Not surprised at all.

 

[Sidilicious]

We will be top 4 in all formats by the end of 2020. Called it a while ago. Not surprised at all.

Nostradamus!

The thing is though Pakistan should never really be outside of the top 5 in the LOI rankings.

The pool of talent they need to choose and the preference of locals for LOIs should mean, they should always be amongst the bog boys along with Ing, Eng, Aus and SA. Teams like NZ, WI and SL, and now Ban will make some inroads but do not have the pool to consistently challenge the big boys. Ban might join the big boy club in a few years due to their population and economy.

 

[Square Drive]

Nostradamus!

The thing is though Pakistan should never really be outside of the top 5 in the LOI rankings.

The pool of talent they need to choose and the preference of locals for LOIs should mean, they should always be amongst the bog boys along with Ing, Eng, Aus and SA. Teams like NZ, WI and SL, and now Ban will make some inroads but do not have the pool to consistently challenge the big boys. Ban might join the big boy club in a few years due to their population and economy.

We would've actually been top 5 consistently had it not been for the Misbah/Azhar era. That style of leadership was not even close to modern-day.

 

[saeed5646]

Nostradamus!

The thing is though Pakistan should never really be outside of the top 5 in the LOI rankings.

The pool of talent they need to choose and the preference of locals for LOIs should mean, they should always be amongst the bog boys along with Ing, Eng, Aus and SA. Teams like NZ, WI and SL, and now Ban will make some inroads but do not have the pool to consistently challenge the big boys. Ban might join the big boy club in a few years due to their population and economy.

Bd miss the big chance of overtaking the pakistan in odis from 2015 to 2016 which was one of the worse duration for pakistan in odis and golden time of bd .Currently pakistan is developing good young squad which will get better with the time on the other hand bd fail to replicate the same performance of them currently .