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Where does Pakistan's Test bowling go from here?

Mamoon said:
Sorry, just saw this.

Everyone like bravado but no one like fake bravado. That is what Naseem is at this point.

There is nothing wrong with being confident and being a talker but then you also need to have the ability to translate them into performances.

Naseem can talk all he wants about seeing fear in batsmen’s eyes and hurting English batsmen if they underestimate him, but all of that becomes pointless when he ends up embarrassed on the pitch.

He is actually lucky that he played against a “nice” team like England. Had he told Australians or Kohli’s India that he would hurt them and ended up owned on the pitch, they would have sledged him out of international cricket.

So what is the lesson here? The lesson is that you need to perform first before opening your mouth. If an established player who has proved himself in the past makes big statement and fails, it is acceptable because he has proved his capability in the past.

But the only place where Naseem has proved his capability is in people’s heads.

Forget the height. His performances in Australia and England showed that he is miles, miles away from being a great bowler.

Now you can say that oh it is just a few games and he is young and inexperienced etc., but I have no reason to share your optimism because we have seen a plethora of overhyped young Pakistani players whose heads are in the clouds and then they lose their way after getting a reality check.

There is no reason to believe that Naseem will be any different.
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Except that he didn’t say all that when you actually look at his complete statement(s). Strawman argument.
 
Misbah should be held to account for this shambles in bowling selection and performance. He shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

I don't want to be listening to the same banal excuses series after series. What exactly is he drawing a lavish salary for?
 
I would say stick with Abbas, Shaheen, Naseem, but replace Yasir with Shadab, otherwise it will be mediocrity all over again. And Aamer Yamin is a must now at 6, who will add a lot of overs too. This is the way forward now.
 
Mercurial said:
I would say stick with Abbas, Shaheen, Naseem, but replace Yasir with Shadab, otherwise it will be mediocrity all over again. And Aamer Yamin is a must now at 6, who will add a lot of overs too. This is the way forward now.
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Yamin should be in the squad ahead of Ashraf

Gohar needs to replace yasir
 
Kroll said:
Misbah should be held to account for this shambles in bowling selection and performance. He shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

I don't want to be listening to the same banal excuses series after series. What exactly is he drawing a lavish salary for?
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Shouldn't waqar be held responsible?
 
Kroll said:
Both should be but Misbah is the chief selector so ultimately he has final say in squad selections.
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But isnt that the best they have in bowling or is thier anyone who should have been picked
 
One of the issues has been lack of reverse swing.

Pak bowlers of 80's, 90's, and even later relied a lot on it to run through sides. Since the time it's disappeared from Pak bowling, the fast bowlers haven't had that effect.

Hasan Ali showed some glimpses of it in CT 2017, but otherwise it's been bare
 
shamaan said:
But isnt that the best they have in bowling or is thier anyone who should have been picked
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Sameen Gul and Ehsan Adil are two names at the top of my head, but they should have been inducted way at least a year ago in light of the two tough away series in Aus and Eng.

Both have good height for test cricket unlike the two midgets Musa and Naseem. No I don't think these are the best in bowling. A lot of were blind Misbah buddy picks.
 
Kroll said:
Sameen Gul and Ehsan Adil are two names at the top of my head, but they should have been inducted way at least a year ago in light of the two tough away series in Aus and Eng.

Both have good height for test cricket unlike the two midgets Musa and Naseem. No I don't think these are the best in bowling. A lot of were blind Misbah buddy picks.
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Agreed they are 2 who should have been inducted a year ago.i think waqar is saying big things about shaheen and naseem
 
shamaan said:
Agreed they are 2 who should have been inducted a year ago.i think waqar is saying big things about shaheen and naseem
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Just trying to cover his own shameful failings. Should be booted until he makes another coaching comeback - again.
 
To revamp this Test side is a simple process but a difficult one. To say that a nation of 200+m people don’t have a proper batsman or bowler is lame and lazy. A bit like the famous, “India (1+b people), don’t have fast bowlers”)), it’s utter nonsense and an easy cop out.

If it was up to me, I would chop anyone’s head off who is over 30 to start a new side.

Omair Bin Yusuf
Saim Ayub
Imam ul Haq
Babar Azam (c)
Saud Shakeel
Saif Badar
Mohammad Rizwan (wk) (vc)
Zafar Gohar
Mohammad Hasnain
Naseem Shah
Shaheen Shah Afridi

You can have Muhammad Musa/Hasan Moshin/ Shadab as back-up options for fast bowler, fast bowling all-rounder, and spinning all-rounder.

I would give the players a three series basis contract; they must meet certain threshold standards for their position at the end of every third series to maintain their spot.

Get rid of the poisonous duo of Misbah/Waqar. Find a MCC qualified coach and hire a psychologist and data team.

This team will not become top 3 or even top 4 but it will ensure that Pakistan have a strong core for the next decade to maintain some stability and order with some infusion of youthful flare.
 
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It is clear that having Waqar in the camp is bringing no improvement in the fast bowlers.

All the bowlers have had glaring technical faults for a good year now, and Waqar has made no difference in alleviating them.
 
ManFan said:
To revamp this Test side is a simple process but a difficult one. To say that a nation of 200+m people don’t have a proper batsman or bowler is lame and lazy. A bit like the famous, “India (1+b people), don’t have fast bowlers”)), it’s utter nonsense and an easy cop out.

If it was up to me, I would chop anyone’s head off who is over 30 to start a new side.

Omair Bin Yusuf
Saim Ayub
Imam ul Haq
Babar Azam (c)
Saud Shakeel
Saif Badar
Mohammad Rizwan (wk) (vc)
Zafar Gohar
Mohammad Hasnain
Naseem Shah
Shaheen Shah Afridi

You can have Muhammad Musa/Hasan Moshin/ Shadab as back-up options for fast bowler, fast bowling all-rounder, and spinning all-rounder.

I would give the players a three series basis contract; they must meet certain threshold standards for their position at the end of every third series to maintain their spot.

Get rid of the poisonous duo of Misbah/Waqar. Find a MCC qualified coach and hire a psychologist and data team.

This team will not become top 3 or even top 4 but it will ensure that Pakistan have a strong core for the next decade to maintain some stability and order with some infusion of youthful flare.
Click to expand...

Naseem is still quite raw so is Hasnain. I'd look to Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul who has a stellar first class record.
 
ManFan said:
To revamp this Test side is a simple process but a difficult one. To say that a nation of 200+m people don’t have a proper batsman or bowler is lame and lazy. A bit like the famous, “India (1+b people), don’t have fast bowlers”)), it’s utter nonsense and an easy cop out.

If it was up to me, I would chop anyone’s head off who is over 30 to start a new side.

Omair Bin Yusuf
Saim Ayub
Imam ul Haq
Babar Azam (c)
Saud Shakeel
Saif Badar
Mohammad Rizwan (wk) (vc)
Zafar Gohar
Mohammad Hasnain
Naseem Shah
Shaheen Shah Afridi

You can have Muhammad Musa/Hasan Moshin/ Shadab as back-up options for fast bowler, fast bowling all-rounder, and spinning all-rounder.

I would give the players a three series basis contract; they must meet certain threshold standards for their position at the end of every third series to maintain their spot.

Get rid of the poisonous duo of Misbah/Waqar. Find a MCC qualified coach and hire a psychologist and data team.

This team will not become top 3 or even top 4 but it will ensure that Pakistan have a strong core for the next decade to maintain some stability and order with some infusion of youthful flare.
Click to expand...

Who's semi ayub ?
 
Kroll said:
Naseem is still quite raw so is Hasnain. I'd look to Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul who has a stellar first class record.
Click to expand...

I would discard Adil as his time is past. He may be 27 but he’s not someone who can win games. Rather, a limited seam-bowler.

I like Saleem Gul and he could be part of the squad.
 
Spin wise would be good to see more of Zafar Gohar and Umer Khan - those Zimbabwe home tests would be a good shout for Gohar, even Umer, though he’s short on FC experience.

Be a shame if Zimbabwe was just for the 30s crowd to fill their boots.
 
Kaka4pope said:
Spin wise would be good to see more of Zafar Gohar and Umer Khan - those Zimbabwe home tests would be a good shout for Gohar, even Umer, though he’s short on FC experience.

Be a shame if Zimbabwe was just for the 30s crowd to fill their boots.
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None of shafiq fawad Harris yasir should be in that squad try youngsters
 
My bowlers shall be
Pair 1

Shaheen
Sameen gul
Naseem

Pair 2
Abbas
Haris rouf
Imran Khan jnr.

Pair 3
Hassan Ali
Junaid Khan
Shinwari
 
Again, no thought or consideration given to the premier format when it comes to the bowling. Misbah going with either TTFs, out of form players or his pet project Musa.

Whilst a pace bowling attack of Abbas, Naseem and Shah looks okay on paper it was badly exposed in England. 'Pace' is a term that needs to be used loosely when it comes to Abbas. His 77 mph deliveries will easily be negotiated by the NZ batsmen standing outside the crease.

Naseem is way too raw and has done nothing in the tough away tours of Australia and England. Afridi is the best we have but he will need support.

I'm not sure what Waqar and Misbah have discussed when it comes to these bowling selections. But it seems they are expecting different results with the same failed strategy and line of thinking.

Once again, I fear Yasir is going to get pummelled as a stock bowler once the quicks are smacked out of the attack. Wahab may need to come in but a backup of Musa and Sohail Khan does not instil much confidence.
 
Kroll said:
Again, no thought or consideration given to the premier format when it comes to the bowling. Misbah going with either TTFs, out of form players or his pet project Musa.

Whilst a pace bowling attack of Abbas, Naseem and Shah looks okay on paper it was badly exposed in England. 'Pace' is a term that needs to be used loosely when it comes to Abbas. His 77 mph deliveries will easily be negotiated by the NZ batsmen standing outside the crease.

Naseem is way too raw and has done nothing in the tough away tours of Australia and England. Afridi is the best we have but he will need support.

I'm not sure what Waqar and Misbah have discussed when it comes to these bowling selections. But it seems they are expecting different results with the same failed strategy and line of thinking.

Once again, I fear Yasir is going to get pummelled as a stock bowler once the quicks are smacked out of the attack. Wahab may need to come in but a backup of Musa and Sohail Khan does not instil much confidence.
Click to expand...

Yasir should not play gohar should play
 
Kroll said:
Again, no thought or consideration given to the premier format when it comes to the bowling. Misbah going with either TTFs, out of form players or his pet project Musa.

Whilst a pace bowling attack of Abbas, Naseem and Shah looks okay on paper it was badly exposed in England. 'Pace' is a term that needs to be used loosely when it comes to Abbas. His 77 mph deliveries will easily be negotiated by the NZ batsmen standing outside the crease.

Naseem is way too raw and has done nothing in the tough away tours of Australia and England. Afridi is the best we have but he will need support.

I'm not sure what Waqar and Misbah have discussed when it comes to these bowling selections. But it seems they are expecting different results with the same failed strategy and line of thinking.

Once again, I fear Yasir is going to get pummelled as a stock bowler once the quicks are smacked out of the attack. Wahab may need to come in but a backup of Musa and Sohail Khan does not instil much confidence.
Click to expand...

Naseem, hasnain and Rauf should play the Shaheen games and the best of the 3 shall play as the 3rd seamer for first test if they don't deliver get wahab in for 2nd test.
 
Any ideas about how Pakistan can adjust their bowling attack to solve the problem of their extremely long tail? Can we afford 3 number 11's?
 
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hitthestump said:
Any ideas about how Pakistan can adjust their bowling attack to solve the problem of their extremely long tail? Can we afford 3 number 11's?
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Zafar at 8, Ehsan Adil at 9, Shaheen at 10, and Abbas at 11. Provides good batting depth.
 
hitthestump said:
Any ideas about how Pakistan can adjust their bowling attack to solve the problem of their extremely long tail? Can we afford 3 number 11's?
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Tabish Khan can bat, and will probably be more effective with the ball due to experience than Shaheen or Naseem.

If Hasan Ali was fit and in form similar to the 2018 England tour, he would make my team as well.
 
Nowhere.

Probably the second or third worst attack in Test cricket at the moment.
 
I fear the worst with this mediocre attack. Can't believe a Pakistan test bowling attack has got this bad.

Once feared, now just a laughing stock.
 
While most teams go into a big tour with a settled team, we always go with inexperienced bowlers who get picked either by PSL performances or because they bowl 145+.

Excluding Mohammad Abbas, not one of these bowlers can consistently hit the right line and length.

Drop these T20 merchants, and bring back Rahat Ali, Ehsan Adil, Imran Khan and Mir Hamza.
 
If Waqar Younis can’t get his fast bowlers to swing the ball in New Zealand, then he should not be on the Aeroplane back to Pakistan. Book a flight to Melbourne or wherever his family has settled down and enjoy the rest of your life in the beautiful country of Australia. Maybe work with a local cricket club and help develop the colts.

For a long time, these bowlers have stopped swinging the ball like they used to.
 
onus will massively be on mohammad abbas in nz, and they played him really well in uae. the rest are all way too green.

expect amad butt to be the surprise package if he gets a test. he got surprising lift and seam movement in his last first class game, think pak will need to play him to shorten the tail.
 
Rana said:
If Waqar Younis can’t get his fast bowlers to swing the ball in New Zealand, then he should not be on the Aeroplane back to Pakistan. Book a flight to Melbourne or wherever his family has settled down and enjoy the rest of your life in the beautiful country of Australia. Maybe work with a local cricket club and help develop the colts.

For a long time, these bowlers have stopped swinging the ball like they used to.
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Naseem swings the ball but he doesnt hit a length on a consitant bases
 
I'm excited for 11 year old Naseem Shah to get slapped for 6 an over with figure if 1/150 from 26 overs.
 
Xoib said:
Naseem, hasnain and Rauf should play the Shaheen games and the best of the 3 shall play as the 3rd seamer for first test if they don't deliver get wahab in for 2nd test.
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Rauf will be blowing hot air after the first day of the 4 day game
 
Kroll said:
I fear the worst with this mediocre attack. Can't believe a Pakistan test bowling attack has got this bad.

Once feared, now just a laughing stock.
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I stil back shaheen and naseem and abbas but I will only give naseem this tour and if he doesmt perform then I'd drop him
 
I stil back naseem abbas naseem to perform but they must perform against New Zealand
 
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