Where is Indian cricket heading?

[gazza619]

Despite being world no. 1, lost 4-1 to England. Narrowingly beating Hong Kong and now a humiliation against Afghanistan.

Where is Indian cricket heading? A genuine question to all cricket fans specially the die hard Indian fans.

PS: this is not Pakistan vs India thread so no bashing please

 

[saadsahabjee]

in the right direction , this was their C side still they manage to draw against a good Afghan side where as our A team narrowly escaped the humiliation.

 

[Reyansh2017]

Despite being world no. 1, lost 4-1 to England. Narrowingly beating Hong Kong and now a humiliation against Afghanistan.

Where is Indian cricket heading? A genuine question to all cricket fans specially the die hard Indian fans.

PS: this is not Pakistan vs India thread so no bashing please

Into the abyss of dhoni sized hole

 

[InziFans]

Yeah, let's just ignore the Pakistan matches and India's Test ranking. People seem to forget just how mediocre India was before the 2000s and how blessed they are to have teams like this.

 

[Sachin136]

They're heading to a world cup win next year. Clearly no Asian side can challenge their full team, and they recently beat South Africa away, so only England stands in the way.

 

[BlackShadow]

4-1 hard fought loss against England in an away tour. This is very normal these days with SA losing 4-0, 3-0 in India and Sri Lanka, Aussies being whipped in India, England getting smashed in Australia etc.

No one cares about Hong Kong match.
No one cares about the Afgan match.

 

[gazza619]

in the right direction , this was their C side still they manage to draw against a good Afghan side where as our A team narrowly escaped the humiliation.

I think you are lying to yourself. A team that has Dhoni Rayadu Karthik Pandey Jadhav Jadeja Yadav Kaul is not a C team. That is like the best of the best IPL 11

 

[Ned Flanders]

India B thrashed all of the other teams.

India C TIED with Afghanistan.

The same Afghanistan that nearly defeated Pakistan and Bangladesh first choice sides.

 

[the_outsider]

I think you are lying to yourself. A team that has Dhoni Rayadu Karthik Pandey Jadhav Jadeja Yadav Kaul is not a C team. That is like the best of the best IPL 11

That's the difference between Indian & Pak cricket system though. PCT first playing XI is PSL XI. India's reserve team is IPL 11.

 

[Ned Flanders]

That's the difference between Indian & Pak cricket system though. PCT first playing XI is PSL XI. India's reserve team is IPL 11.

Exactly.

 

[Mahee]

Indian cricket is doomed....now they will lose final match to Pakistan

 

[gazza619]

That's the difference between Indian & Pak cricket system though. PCT first playing XI is PSL XI. India's reserve team is IPL 11.

I did say this is not Pakistan vs India

Lets not compare a world no. 6 (who does not play at home) to a cash rich world no.1

Lets put things into perspective for Indian cricket. What are Indian fans and world fans expecting of Indian cricket team going forward

 

[docteurmanish]

india heading towards series sin in aussie test

 

[PakSarZameen]

We may finally be entering an era where Indian batsmen will struggle to score prolifically.

Rohit, Dhawan, Kohli and Dhoni are all 30+ and their replacements don't seem to be at the level they should be at despite having played in the best T20 league in the world.

This is an era of Indian bowling coming up with Bumrah Shami Khaleel BK Chahal Kuldeev Pandya. This lot is as good as it can get!

 

[BaankeJi]

I think Indian team needs to do more practice. They need more dedication/commitment.
Currently they are happy winning at home or winning ODIs against Pakistan.
They have to really feel pain when they lose a test series abroad.

 

[rhony]

I think India will have it's golden age after WC 2019. Pant will replace Dhoni. Gill, Shaw, Rahul will bat after Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli. The bowling unit is very young and a few young pacers are already in the wait list. This could be the team that will dominate for a few years. Technically and mentally strong batsmen, decent pace bowlers and spinners and a gun Fielding team. Until then this Indian team will struggle against England because of the middle order and will be a semi final team

 

[rhony]

I think Indian team needs to do more practice. They need more dedication/commitment.
Currently they are happy winning at home or winning ODIs against Pakistan.
They have to really feel pain when they lose a test series abroad.

Slept during India vs South Africa ODI series have we?

 

[BaankeJi]

Slept during India vs South Africa ODI series have we?

I am talking about both tests and ODI.

 

[kuskash]

They are in direction to be stronger than Pak one day.

 

[JaDed]

You might be trolling about it, but as a fan this Afghan or HK matches don't mean much and neither does your trolling.

On the topic alone where Indian team is heading -- feels like it stuck in a rut, its professional enough where they are taking it like a Game and having great ability but not doing the extra which needs to be done to win.
More like Science vs art argument but great teams require that extra factor, all these years we had Sachin Dhoni Yuvi,Zaheer providing us that x-factor , Kohli,Bumrah probably have the x-factor but no one in the middle is making it above their game, or punching above their weight,

 

[Rightarmfast]

With INdia C India D team performing decently against other Asian teams, I think the team is doing ok.

 

[Balthazar]

They are heading towards Asia cup final, where they will be expected to thrash Pakistan/Bangladesh and show who is the boss in Asia.

 

[Mamoon]

Top three in all formats for the next 10+ years.

 

[Duckworth Lewis]

To glory.

 

[Zerotohero]

Might not win the WC 2019 with this kind of middle order. But after that is heading towards glory and on route to become one of the greatest teams. With players like Shaw, Gill, Mayank, Nagarkoti, Mavi, Ishan waiting in wings and some decent pace lineups it will become one of the best sides since Aus and WI of the early 2000's and 90's

 

[Invincible Gujjar]

I don't know where they are heading but they are not going to win 2019 world cup I m pretty damn sure about that.Their batting apart from top 3 is not good enough and in bowling department they only have one good bowler and kuldeep is decent too others are very over rated.All in all they won't win the world cup.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Despite being world no. 1, lost 4-1 to England. Narrowingly beating Hong Kong and now a humiliation against Afghanistan.

Where is Indian cricket heading? A genuine question to all cricket fans specially the die hard Indian fans.

PS: this is not Pakistan vs India thread so no bashing please

Seriously?

So you think it would have been the same result had Bumrah and Bhuvi played along with Dhawan and Rohit?

This was definitely not India's first choice 11.

Infact, if you take out any team's first choice 11 against Afghanistan, they would struggle on Asian pitches especially Dubai.

Let's face it.

You wouldn't have even made this thread had India cantered to a victory yesterday playing its full strength XI.

So basically, a "deliberate gloat thread" or a "goad thread" whichever way you want to put it.

 

[gazza619]

We may finally be entering an era where Indian batsmen will struggle to score prolifically.

Rohit, Dhawan, Kohli and Dhoni are all 30+ and their replacements don't seem to be at the level they should be at despite having played in the best T20 league in the world.

This is an era of Indian bowling coming up with Bumrah Shami Khaleel BK Chahal Kuldeev Pandya. This lot is as good as it can get!

Yeah thats a good point. There bowlers may potentially win them more games than their batsmen.

 

[gazza619]

I think Indian team needs to do more practice. They need more dedication/commitment.
Currently they are happy winning at home or winning ODIs against Pakistan.
They have to really feel pain when they lose a test series abroad.

That may be right. To me they seem to be happy with existing results, i.e loose at home, win away, beat (one of the weakest ever) Pakistan.
They did win in SA though but on a consistent basis they are not world beaters.
Since they seem happy, the fans seem happy, so its hard to see how they would want to further improve and become a true world no.1.

 

[gazza619]

Top three in all formats for the next 10+ years.

Agreed but they have already been on top in the past few years. The question i really have is if they will go a level up and start winning more overseas or go a level down after their best players like Bumrah, Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli retire.

 

[Ayybee]

Indians completely forget the eng thrashing, how quick
Indian team will be exposed badly against good teams during the World Cup because their middle order players can’t even score a run, they’re only saved by their top 3, if they don’t score then India lose without a doubt
Hopefully Pakistan will expose their middle order in the final
But one thing to note here is that before the tournament Indians were all like “We don’t care about the tournament it’s nothing bla bla bla but they’ve suddenly started shouting after a few wins
But thrashing is coming their way on 28th

 

[gazza619]

Seriously?

So you think it would have been the same result had Bumrah and Bhuvi played along with Dhawan and Rohit?

This was definitely not India's first choice 11.

Infact, if you take out any team's first choice 11 against Afghanistan, they would struggle on Asian pitches especially Dubai.

Let's face it.

You wouldn't have even made this thread had India cantered to a victory yesterday playing its full strength XI.

So basically, a "deliberate gloat thread" or a "goad thread" whichever way you want to put it.

You ask a great Aussie team of the 90s or the great WI or Pakistan team of 80s, can we take out your top 4 players and do you still expect to defeat Hong Kong and Afghanistan convincingly and their response will be hell yeah. 4-1 defeat to an unsettled England side does not speak volume either.
I know fans have a liking for mentioning India’s win in SA which will probably be mentioned again and again over the next few years but is that all they have. Win home, loose abroad, defeat a world no.6 Pakistan. Will this just continue or will they become world beaters. Or will they degrade after their best players retire.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

You ask a great Aussie team of the 90s or the great WI or Pakistan team of 80s, can we take out your top 4 players and do you still expect to defeat Hong Kong and Afghanistan convincingly and their response will be hell yeah. 4-1 defeat to an unsettled England side does not speak volume either.
I know fans have a liking for mentioning India’s win in SA which will probably be mentioned again and again over the next few years but is that all they have. Win home, loose abroad, defeat a world no.6 Pakistan. Will this just continue or will they become world beaters. Or will they degrade after their best players retire.

If that is your honest question, the infrastructure is too strong for them to degrade like West Indies or Sri Lanka.

I see India maintaining status quo over the years.

 

[AMSS]

Excellent OP. I am mentally prepared for the impending humiliation come the final.

 

[gazza619]

Excellent OP. I am mentally prepared for the impending humiliation come the final.

Again you are taking this into the direction of India v Pakistan
See this thread will still be valid even if India wins the Asia Cup.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

Indian cricket is heading for another disappointing World Cup outing in 2019.

Hopefully after that's done and dusted, the selectors will bring in more youngsters like Prithvi Shaw, Shubman Gill, Ishan Kishan among others.

 

[the_outsider]

You ask a great Aussie team of the 90s or the great WI or Pakistan team of 80s, can we take out your top 4 players and do you still expect to defeat Hong Kong and Afghanistan convincingly and their response will be hell yeah. 4-1 defeat to an unsettled England side does not speak volume either.
I know fans have a liking for mentioning India’s win in SA which will probably be mentioned again and again over the next few years but is that all they have. Win home, loose abroad, defeat a world no.6 Pakistan. Will this just continue or will they become world beaters. Or will they degrade after their best players retire.

I think you are hoping that the Indian system fails rather than expecting it to.

 

[cricketindiafan]

They're heading to a world cup win next year. Clearly no Asian side can challenge their full team, and they recently beat South Africa away, so only England stands in the way.

With that middle order and Dhoni? Good luck, we will be happy if we make it to the semis, only way we will go better is if the top 3 keeps firing all the time.

 

[cricketindiafan]

On the general direction of Indian cricket, we have underachieved so far. Lack of faith in youngsters is holding our cricket back. A more professional coach (not necessarily an ex-player) is our only hope to fulfill the potential. Not much expected from the board which the CoA has totally destroyed since taking over.

 

[gazza619]

On the general direction of Indian cricket, we have underachieved so far. Lack of faith in youngsters is holding our cricket back. A more professional coach (not necessarily an ex-player) is our only hope to fulfill the potential. Not much expected from the board which the CoA has totally destroyed since taking over.

I think the thing that can damage the most is playing too much cricket. I mean India havent stopped since that long England tour, then Asia cup. Then i hear that the mighty WI team is arriving in India to play a full series. Sooner or later BCCI will need to stop the greed and give the players a proper rest in between.

 

[gazza619]

I think you are hoping that the Indian system fails rather than expecting it to.

Nah, i just want to see a true world no.1 emerging
May it be any team. Its just annoying how things are nowadays where even a weakened SL thrash SA at home or a weak Pakistan thrash nearly every team in UAE.

 

[happydavy]

Indian team and management is very arrogant. Though losing to Afghanistan or HKK once in blue moon is ok, it's the lack of regret is what amuses me. They think they don't need any guidance or any outside suggestions and that the ranking is all that matters. Against england in the 2nd odi when they were losing comprehensively, the whole dressing room was out there clapping and teasing chahar for scoring a boundary. When an international team is about to lose, then it's pretty ordinary to indulge in such banter in full public view.

 

[Mamoon]

Agreed but they have already been on top in the past few years. The question i really have is if they will go a level up and start winning more overseas or go a level down after their best players like Bumrah, Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli retire.

They are all years away from retiring so you are thinking too far ahead. Furthermore, their U-19 team that recently won the World Cup is the most well-drilled U-19 team ever. Their future is very bright and they will maintain their position as one of the top 2-3 teams across formats.

India is a certified cricketing giant now - they have huge resources and have managed to spread the game to all parts of the country. It is not simply case of having a golden generation. They have well and truly moved on from their pre-2000 days.

They won’t stop producing Kohlis, Dhonis, Dhawans, Rohits, Bumrahs etc. in the future.

 

[the_outsider]

Nah, i just want to see a true world no.1 emerging
May it be any team. Its just annoying how things are nowadays where even a weakened SL thrash SA at home or a weak Pakistan thrash nearly every team in UAE.

I have the opposite opinion. I think cricket today is much more exciting because every team can beat any team on their day. Global cricket has become far more competitive today than it was 15 years ago.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Nah, i just want to see a true world no.1 emerging
May it be any team. Its just annoying how things are nowadays where even a weakened SL thrash SA at home or a weak Pakistan thrash nearly every team in UAE.

Do you think India is number 1 because it plays too much??

 

[gazza619]

Do you think India is number 1 because it plays too much??

I am not sure tbh. They are world no.1 because they obviously win more games. I dont know the science of points but if they are playing regular 4-5 test series against top teams at home year in year out than certainly they have a better chance to gather more points.

 

[the_outsider]

Case In Point

They are all years away from retiring so you are thinking too far ahead. Furthermore, their U-19 team that recently won the World Cup is the most well-drilled U-19 team ever. Their future is very bright and they will maintain their position as one of the top 2-3 teams across formats.

India is a certified cricketing giant now - they have huge resources and have managed to spread the game to all parts of the country. It is not simply case of having a golden generation. They have well and truly moved on from their pre-2000 days.

They won’t stop producing Kohlis, Dhonis, Dhawans, Rohits, Bumrahs etc. in the future.

How many countries can afford to keep 10 batsmen averaging 50+ in FC cricket out of the playing XI most of the time?

Name Bat Avg
1 P Shaw 57
2 M Agarwal 50
3 K Nair 51
4 R Pant 50
5 A Bawne 53
6 H Vihari 59
7 S Iyer 52
8 M Pandey 51
9 S Gill 50
10 A Rayadu 51 (ODI)

 

[gazza619]

How many countries can afford to keep 10 batsmen averaging 50+ in FC cricket out of the playing XI most of the time?

Name Bat Avg
1 P Shaw 57
2 M Agarwal 50
3 K Nair 51
4 R Pant 50
5 A Bawne 53
6 H Vihari 59
7 S Iyer 52
8 M Pandey 51
9 S Gill 50
10 A Rayadu 51 (ODI)

Those FC averages are a good effort but I am pretty sure other nations may have also have many 50+ batsmen in FC.
WI greats retired = WI suffered downfall
Pak greats retired = Pak suffered downfall
Aussie greats retired = Aussies suffered downfall
SL greats retired = SL suffered downfall

What guarantees we have that once this purple batch of Indian players retire they wont suffer downfall. I know most of them are in there early 30s but the amount of cricket that happens these days and the amount of money there is in T20 leagues, I cant see many of them playing international cricket beyond the age of 35..

 

[the_outsider]

Those FC averages are a good effort but I am pretty sure other nations may have also have many 50+ batsmen in FC.
WI greats retired = WI suffered downfall
Pak greats retired = Pak suffered downfall
Aussie greats retired = Aussies suffered downfall
SL greats retired = SL suffered downfall

What guarantees we have that once this purple batch of Indian players retire they wont suffer downfall. I know most of them are in there early 30s but the amount of cricket that happens these days and the amount of money there is in T20 leagues, I cant see many of them playing international cricket beyond the age of 35..

Because Indian greats have all retired but we are still the #1 ranked team.

Sachin, Dravid, VVS, Sehwag, Ganguly, Kumble, Zaheer are all retired.

India will never suffer this fate because BCCI knows how to groom players and they have a very elaborate system for it. India plays more Youth cricket and A games than any other country. BCCI invests a lot into player development and the steady flow of talent is there for everyone to see - like we saw in the 2018 U-19 WC.

PS: And no, no other country has 10 batsmen averaging 50 who are not playing for the country.

 

[KevinFern]

Fun thread. Great game yesterday. India indebted to Afghanistan for finally giving a match to test out our middle order before the WC. Wish other matches too would had something in them for our Middle order to come in to play and test out themselves.

 

[nik45hil]

Pakistan will see the final of Asia Cup from their home

 

[happydavy]

Because Indian greats have all retired but we are still the #1 ranked team.

Sachin, Dravid, VVS, Sehwag, Ganguly, Kumble, Zaheer are all retired.

India will never suffer this fate because BCCI knows how to groom players and they have a very elaborate system for it. India plays more Youth cricket and A games than any other country. BCCI invests a lot into player development and the steady flow of talent is there for everyone to see - like we saw in the 2018 U-19 WC.

PS: And no, no other country has 10 batsmen averaging 50 who are not playing for the country.

I disagree. How many of the current batsmen were able to score any runs in England or SA? The only difference between India and say Pakistan is that India is mighty strong in India and win everything. Outside India, the struggles are not too dissimilar. Yes India may compete better but they don't win just like other teams.

 

[Dingolfy]

I disagree. How many of the current batsmen were able to score any runs in England or SA? The only difference between India and say Pakistan is that India is mighty strong in India and win everything. Outside India, the struggles are not too dissimilar. Yes India may compete better but they don't win just like other teams.

How many home batsmen scored runs in Eng and SA in the same series? They also struggled the same as Indian top order.Current battting skills against moving ball is pretty weak at the moment across the world thanks to T20s and pattas for LOIs.

 

[mastersaan10]

look once kohl goes, there will be some degradation but overall India looks the most secure for the future. Pakistan has had like 10 of their best players banned in the last 10 years yet they still compete. Australia had their 2 players banned and they are losing at home. England struggling to beat India at home, South Africa struggling without ABD. Pakistan has no great so that's why they struggle. India has dhawan, rohit and kohl in odis and dhoni is done so that's why they are good, they have 3 greats. their replacements look good too, shaw, gill, kishan.

 

[cricketjoshila]

People saying when Kohli goes. Well he is not even 30 yet. So another 6-7 years he will stay.

 

[Ab Fan]

Need to get a good no.4 and no.6. Apart from that, everything else is fine for India. Hardly any major competitor to India at this moment.

England is up there in LO and they will be a big deal in WC 19 which will be in England only. Outside that, NZ are good but they have their limitations. Guptill, Taylor and Williamson are very good batters but doesn't match very well to India's top 3. SA have a very weak middle order now that ABDV is gone. Aus are struggling as well although they can come good once they play the trio of S.C.H in WC 19.

So, personally, India are among favourites in ODIs, not much wrong. Just get those two spots right and it will be a brilliant team.

 

[happydavy]

How many home batsmen scored runs in Eng and SA in the same series? They also struggled the same as Indian top order.Current battting skills against moving ball is pretty weak at the moment across the world thanks to T20s and pattas for LOIs.

Scoring runs or taking wickets are means to an end. The end is to win matches. If India ain't winning series abroad then what good 100 batsmen averaging 50+ achieves? Having a lot of batsmen averaging 50 is no accomplishment, those batsmen winning matches abroad is an accomplishment.

 

[happydavy]

Need to get a good no.4 and no.6. Apart from that, everything else is fine for India. Hardly any major competitor to India at this moment.

England is up there in LO and they will be a big deal in WC 19 which will be in England only. Outside that, NZ are good but they have their limitations. Guptill, Taylor and Williamson are very good batters but doesn't match very well to India's top 3. SA have a very weak middle order now that ABDV is gone. Aus are struggling as well although they can come good once they play the trio of S.C.H in WC 19.

So, personally, India are among favourites in ODIs, not much wrong. Just get those two spots right and it will be a brilliant team.

I think its delusional thinking. For all the hype around India, where does India win outside Asia be it tests or ODIs. Most recent England tour, lost the ODi series 2-1. Most recent Australia tour, lost the ODi series 4-1. Most recent NZ tour, lost the ODi series 4-0. Baring a bilateral series against SA, India hasn't actually won much outside Asia.

 

[Afzal_K]

What a desperate loser type query, can you jokers that frustrated that you call a tied game a humiliation? not to discredit Afghans who are playing their best. Here, I am seeing our team struggle for a low score, its crazy to see this kinda batting
Let Indian cricket worry about where they are heading or loading

 

[Ab Fan]

I think its delusional thinking. For all the hype around India, where does India win outside Asia be it tests or ODIs. Most recent England tour, lost the ODi series 2-1. Most recent Australia tour, lost the ODi series 4-1. Most recent NZ tour, lost the ODi series 4-0. Baring a bilateral series against SA, India hasn't actually won much outside Asia.

Actually No. That NZ and Aus series were long back. So, cant really count that. Things have changed since then.

Away from home, recent SA series, India won and recent England series , lost 2-1 and this is when England are currently the very best team in the world. Clearly, things are going great for India at this moment in this era of HTBs when every dog only wins at home and not away.

Also, that England series if you look, India had no Bhuvi and no Bumrah. So, I dont think it is delusion. You also look at performances of other teams away and it aint any great.

 

[Ned Flanders]

Actually No. That NZ and Aus series were long back. So, cant really count that. Things have changed since then.

Away from home, recent SA series, India won and recent England series , lost 2-1 and this is when England are currently the very best team in the world. Clearly, things are going great for India at this moment in this era of HTBs when every dog only wins at home and not away.

Also, that England series if you look, India had no Bhuvi and no Bumrah. So, I dont think it is delusion. You also look at performances of other teams away and it aint any great.

I think 3 match ODI series' don't tell the whole story.

5 match ODI series' should be the norm.

 

[PakLFC]

India will do well in subcontinental conditions. They will continue to struggle in places like England, Australia and the RSA.

 

[the_outsider]

I think its delusional thinking. For all the hype around India, where does India win outside Asia be it tests or ODIs. Most recent England tour, lost the ODi series 2-1. Most recent Australia tour, lost the ODi series 4-1. Most recent NZ tour, lost the ODi series 4-0. Baring a bilateral series against SA, India hasn't actually won much outside Asia.

Then you are not paying attention.

India lost a bilateral ODI series against England after 11 years. They have been winning regularly in England since 2002 NatWest series.

Won ODI & T20 series in NZ in 2009.

3-0 T20I win in Aus in 2016

ODI and T20I win in SA in 2018

 

[mystical man]

Worry about Pakistan now...What a shocker

 

[Oxfordchamp]

Lost to Bangladesh A team without 2 main players and almost lost to Afghanistan...not to mention 2 big losses to India...
After the India England series, when posters here were mocking, I had said wait for asia cup..

 

[Sam99]

It's good team nothing else. Until we win in all overseas tour i won't consider this as great team. In odis & t20s we have chance to win everywhere though.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

They are heading into right path