Which pace-bowling all-rounder can cement his spot in all three formats for Pakistan?

[sadida97]

Pakistan has god 2 allrounders with a lot of ability....

Who is the better bowler ?

Who is the better batsman ?

Finally, who is the better allrounder overall ? Who should Pakistan invest in ?

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Invest in both. Yamin is unfortunate to miss out.

 

[todfod 11]

Both can play along side I think.. if irs seaming friendly wicket pakistan should play both the players.. Fahim can even bat in top 4.

 

[syed abbas]

Yameen is not an all-rounder.He is a proper batsman who can bowl 3-4 overs.(not more than that)
Have not seen much of Fahim to judge him.
Ammad Butt is a genuine all-rounder.He can bowl between 135-140km/h.He also bowls decent out-swingers.
And can hit big as well.

 

[hadi123]

Yameen is not an all-rounder.He is a proper batsman who can bowl 3-4 overs.(not more than that)
Have not seen much of Fahim to judge him.
Ammad Butt is a genuine all-rounder.He can bowl between 135-140km/h.He also bowls decent out-swingers.
And can hit big as well.

Amad Butt is awful. He's got a six pack but he is a trundler and a useless batsman

 

[syed abbas]

Amad Butt is awful. He's got a six pack but he is a trundler and a useless batsman

One may doubt his skills.
I saw him batting in PSL match and he was decent with the bat.
He bowls at a decent speed and he is anything but a trundler.

 

[MMHS]

I think, problem for PAK is the UAE venue - the wicket there in recent years is tailor made for 35 overs of spin. It's not feasible to accommodate 2 medium pacers behind Amir & Hasan in UAE - even bginging one is challenge. This is one of the main reasons for such prolonged stardom of MoHa & Afridi.

In 80s & 90s, PAK played lot more matches in AUS/UK & the home wickets had something for medium pacers, at least it swings in Punjab & reverse swings at Karachi, while old UAE wicket had a mirror like shine that helped movement. That was the main reason PAK Captains tried so many medium pace all rounders from Shahid Mahboob to Yasir Arafat - that privilege now is going to MoHa, Malik, Imad, Nawaz ...and this is one of the main reason for this 8/9th rank - PAK as a team, it's core strength lies in attacking cricket - this 35 over spin strategy in UAE didn't win series against SAF, NZ, AUS & ENG. Shukar hai, IND doesn't play PAK & PCB don't invite BD in UAE - otherwise, on those UAE wickets, it'll end in embarrassment.

On a better surface, ideally both Yamin & Fahim should back 3 men front line attack of Amir, Hasan & Shadab (ideally the best leggi available, purely on bowling merit only) - Just like Razzak & Mahmood backed 3 men attack of Wasim, Shoaib/Waquar & Saq. Imad is a decent utility cricketer, but unfortunately, his bowling is going to work only on those typical UAE wickets - dead slow & low. He should be part of T20, but not the longer formats.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Yamin is better.

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan should keep all three Butt , Yamine and Ashraf in the squad . Keep rotating them and playing them.

The coaches should work on there skills and improve them further.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Aamir, Hassan, Fahim, Yamin, Shadab, and Imad should be Pakistan's bowling attack going forward with Harris and Fakhar as part-timers. It also means that there is no tailender in this team.

 

[Hamza_]

Why is no one mentioning Hussain Talat? He is a solid prospect, Better batsman than Yamin.

Also can use new ball like Yamin and is younger.

 

[Savak]

Both

 

[Hasan123]

Both. Hussain Talat is someone else who I would like to see given a chance at international level sooner rather than later. If it was upto me he would have been at the champions trophy.

 

[Ellipsism]

I'd have Hussain Talat ahead of both.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Why is no one mentioning Hussain Talat? He is a solid prospect, Better batsman than Yamin.

Also can use new ball like Yamin and is younger.

Haven't seen Talat bowl much,how is he,does he have the same pace as Yamin or Fahim?

 

[Arham_PakFan]

we should invest in all of them?Why can't we?

 

[Ellipsism]

Haven't seen Talat bowl much,how is he,does he have the same pace as Yamin or Fahim?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kDg58cmjDDM

Watch from 9 min onwards.

 

[zacattakk]

I would have picked Yamin over Fahim. He seems to be the better batsman/hitter. In what little of Fahim I have seen at the domestic level, he seemed pretty mediocre in terms of both batting and bowling. Hopefully he has improved and performs well in the Champions trophy.

Amad Butt's batting and bowling both were pretty unimpressive in whatever opportunities he had this past PSL. But he is still very young and hopefully will get better.

I haven't seen Talat bowl properly yet, but he seemed to have a lot of ability with the bat. I would have selected him in the T20 squad for the West Indies series instead of some of the TTFs we keep on seeing, to give him some experience and add some much needed youth to the limited overs batting lineup.

 

[Canistani Hero]

Why do we have to choose? Invest in both. If England can invest in both Stokes and Woakes, why can't Pakistan invest in Amin and Yamin?

 

[moghul]

I think, problem for PAK is the UAE venue - the wicket there in recent years is tailor made for 35 overs of spin. It's not feasible to accommodate 2 medium pacers behind Amir & Hasan in UAE - even bginging one is challenge. This is one of the main reasons for such prolonged stardom of MoHa & Afridi.

In 80s & 90s, PAK played lot more matches in AUS/UK & the home wickets had something for medium pacers, at least it swings in Punjab & reverse swings at Karachi, while old UAE wicket had a mirror like shine that helped movement. That was the main reason PAK Captains tried so many medium pace all rounders from Shahid Mahboob to Yasir Arafat - that privilege now is going to MoHa, Malik, Imad, Nawaz ...and this is one of the main reason for this 8/9th rank - PAK as a team, it's core strength lies in attacking cricket - this 35 over spin strategy in UAE didn't win series against SAF, NZ, AUS & ENG. Shukar hai, IND doesn't play PAK & PCB don't invite BD in UAE - otherwise, on those UAE wickets, it'll end in embarrassment.

On a better surface, ideally both Yamin & Fahim should back 3 men front line attack of Amir, Hasan & Shadab (ideally the best leggi available, purely on bowling merit only) - Just like Razzak & Mahmood backed 3 men attack of Wasim, Shoaib/Waquar & Saq. Imad is a decent utility cricketer, but unfortunately, his bowling is going to work only on those typical UAE wickets - dead slow & low. He should be part of T20, but not the longer formats.

Impressed with your knowledge of Pakistan cricket and agree with your analysis.

 

[Syed1]

More importantly both have excellent ability to clear the fence something we seriously lack and need desperately. Yamin is also good enough to bat at 6.

6. Yamin
7. Imad
8. Shadab
9. Fahim
10. Hasan
11. Amir

That's a strong lower order and bowling lineup

 

[Ellipsism]

More importantly both have excellent ability to clear the fence something we seriously lack and need desperately. Yamin is also good enough to bat at 6.

6. Yamin
7. Imad
8. Shadab
9. Fahim
10. Hasan
11. Amir

That's a strong lower order and bowling lineup

We need a genuine fast bowler not Fahim and the alike.

 

[BDfanforever]

I am willing to bet Fahim Ashraf will be like Farhad Reza type of players. Many BD fans used to think Farhad Reza was a "clean" hitter of the ball.

 

[Titan24]

I am willing to bet Fahim Ashraf will be like Farhad Reza type of players. Many BD fans used to think Farhad Reza was a "clean" hitter of the ball.

I dont agree. Farhad Raza was a pretty ordinary bowler and didnt have enough pace (late 120s), yes could hit a few here and there but very rarely at international level while in the case of Faheem Ashraf (he considers himself a bowling all rounder) he is pretty skitty and can use the new ball as well as the old ball well. Recently in Pakistan Cup (All the top players in 5 teams) he took a great fifer with the ball. He can bowl mid 130s easily and has the physique and potential to go further up and his hitting (clean or not) was under pressure which speaks highly of his attitude and handling pressure.
All the players who are even considered for international cricket do have talent (some more some less) but the difference is of handling pressure and your attitude towards the game.
To summarize big difference between the both you are comparing is pressure handling, I liked Faheem Ashraf form the first look I got of him in the last years Pakistan Cup, he is gutsy and doesnt take pressure while Farhad Raza was never able to adjust himself at international level.

 

[Slog]

More importantly both have excellent ability to clear the fence something we seriously lack and need desperately. Yamin is also good enough to bat at 6.

6. Yamin
7. Imad
8. Shadab
9. Fahim
10. Hasan
11. Amir

That's a strong lower order and bowling lineup

All bowlers (asides from Amir) are likely to get carted around more oftne than not

 

[New Yorker]

Too many overheated debates on PP over X player vs Y player; if you have two promising youngsters - and an ODI setup that needs radical shaking up to boot - you make sure to give chances to both of them. The real issue is that TTFs cannot not endlessly recycled; management needs to be unsentimental in selection process. The fact that Rahat and Wahab were a fixtures in the ODI setup so long really held back the development process.

 

[Ellipsism]

All bowlers (asides from Amir) are likely to get carted around more oftne than not

Agree here; and apart from Hasan you have no genuine wicket takers.

 

[New Yorker]

We need a genuine fast bowler not Fahim and the alike.

We need both. A Fizz would also be great. What we don't need is to hold back promising talent because no domestic speed demon of quality has yet to emerge. If God give you lemons you make lemonade.

 

[Ellipsism]

We need both. A Fizz would also be great. What we don't need is to hold back promising talent because no domestic speed demon of quality has yet to emerge. If God give you lemons you make lemonade.

We don't a need a Fizz, who himself isn't a great bowler.

We need a bowler who can bowl at a good click, can move it around and extracts bounce. Bashir, Irfan Jr and Sultan fit that mould.

 

[Hamza_]

I am willing to bet Fahim Ashraf will be like Farhad Reza type of players. Many BD fans used to think Farhad Reza was a "clean" hitter of the ball.

You might not be wrong. But for the time being enjoy your team's beating

 

[Alam_dar]

We don't a need a Fizz, who himself isn't a great bowler.

We need a bowler who can bowl at a good click, can move it around and extracts bounce. Bashir, Irfan Jr and Sultan fit that mould.

Bring both Faheem and Yamin on the expense of TTF Batsman like Shehzad, Hafeez and Azhar. In this case, you will still have 3rd fast bowler in form of Bashir, Irfan Jr and Sultan.

 

[ExpressPacer]

As a bowling option, I can assure you that Aamer Yamin is miles ahead of Fahim Ashraf. Both are short and trundlers but Fahimd Ashraf is in the mould of Hammad Azam who PP experts to this day rate as a "fast-bowling all rounder".

 

[New Yorker]

We don't a need a Fizz, who himself isn't a great bowler.

We need a bowler who can bowl at a good click, can move it around and extracts bounce. Bashir, Irfan Jr and Sultan fit that mould.

I see. We would say no to a bowler who averages 15 in ODIs in favor of
some bowler in domestics who caught your eye? You may be entitled to
your opinions but they really seem to be just that. Complete disregard for
actual results and performance.

I'm all for giving new chances to up and coming fast bowlers and am happy
to see these players be given a chance if they perform - contrary to public
opinion selection need not be a zero sum game - but it makes zero sense to
stall team selection on every front, including the search of a seam bowling all
rounder - because you have a speed fetish.

 

[Syed1]

We need a genuine fast bowler not Fahim and the alike.

Who is this geniune fast bowler?? Wahab Riaz who gets carted around for 8-10 rpo in every innings?

 

[Ellipsism]

Who is this geniune fast bowler?? Wahab Riaz who gets carted around for 8-10 rpo in every innings?

Err Bashir or Sultan.

Nippy, get bounce and can swing the ball.

 

[sadida97]

Err Bashir or Sultan.

Nippy, get bounce and can swing the ball.

what abt irfan ?

 

[Ellipsism]

what abt irfan ?

Still needs work.

 

[sadida97]

Still needs work.

Do you reckon he will inshallah be ready by the next PSL (next year) ?

 

[Ellipsism]

Do you reckon he will inshallah be ready by the next PSL (next year) ?

Depends on his coach.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Err Bashir or Sultan.

Nippy, get bounce and can swing the ball.

any videos of Bashir?
Sultan is good.

 

[Ellipsism]

any videos of Bashir?
Sultan is good.

Nope, but you can watch him in highlight packages of him playing for Lahore Blues in the National T20.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

Well, Finch destroyed Mr. Ashraf today.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I am willing to bet Fahim Ashraf will be like Farhad Reza type of players. Many BD fans used to think Farhad Reza was a "clean" hitter of the ball.

I don't remember Farhad Reza ever making a 30-ball 64 against an international team in such a dire situation. The guy was a bit of a joke tbh.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Ellipsism]

I see. We would say no to a bowler who averages 15 in ODIs in favor of
some bowler in domestics who caught your eye? You may be entitled to
your opinions but they really seem to be just that. Complete disregard for
actual results and performance.

I'm all for giving new chances to up and coming fast bowlers and am happy
to see these players be given a chance if they perform - contrary to public
opinion selection need not be a zero sum game - but it makes zero sense to
stall team selection on every front, including the search of a seam bowling all
rounder - because you have a speed fetish.

Learn to understand the game, cricket isn't played on a spreadsheet.

What does Mustafizur bring to the table? Pace isn't great, can swing the ball if conditions permit and not much bounce either. The bulk of his wickets came in his intial matches when there was a suprise factor involved with his cutter.

I advise you watch the minute package highlights of the Aus vs Pak practise game and see how much time Finch has against Fahim. At that pace no matter how much you move the ball good batsman will be able to counter it.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Well, Finch destroyed Mr. Ashraf today.

Two consecutive fours were actually miscued hook shots that could've gone anywhere. Agar Gaind Kari Hojati Hawa mein our Finch Ghar ko Chala jata toh Abhi hum Razzak vs Fahim comparisons kar rahe hotay.

It was an experiment in a pointless warm up game boys.....Chillax, he's a good cricketer and much needed in the lineup at the moment.

 

[New Yorker]

Learn to understand the game, cricket isn't played on a spreadsheet.

What does Mustafizur bring to the table? Pace isn't great, can swing the ball if conditions permit and not much bounce either. The bulk of his wickets came in his intial matches when there was a suprise factor involved with his cutter.

I advise you watch the minute package highlights of the Aus vs Pak practise game and see how much time Finch has against Fahim. At that pace no matter how much you move the ball good batsman will be able to counter it.

I think you should ask yourself, honestly, how many coaches in search of a T20 or ODI trophy would turn down The Fizz? Perhaps the Aussies, spoiled as they are with Starc and Hazlewood. But we are clearly not talking about the same bowler. I've seen him push his pace to 140, and he will get quicker yet with age. What stands out otherwise is his control and intelligence. The history of cricket is littered with bowlers who were nippy and moved the ball without for that matter being very good; see under Rahat. I don't quite know where you think the numbers that end up on spreadsheets come from. I always thought they came from cricket matches, played on cricket pitches. What I am sure of is that cricket isn't played in your head. You have certain ideas about who should do well and these ideas are plausible. But they are not for that matter always true.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

Ashraf is another bits and pieces player like Anwar Ali that Pakistan invested in and got nothing in return just like Bilawal Bhatti.

Yamin COULD be worth investing in depending if he can live upto the hype on here and his stats in domestic being a little better than the others.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

Two consecutive fours were actually miscued hook shots that could've gone anywhere. Agar Gaind Kari Hojati Hawa mein our Finch Ghar ko Chala jata toh Abhi hum Razzak vs Fahim comparisons kar rahe hotay.

It was an experiment in a pointless warm up game boys.....Chillax, he's a good cricketer and much needed in the lineup at the moment.

I wanted to see the reaction of those who hype everyone up after one performance lol.

Ek din razzaq bolte hain, doosre din anwar ali

 

[New Yorker]

Ashraf is another bits and pieces player like Anwar Ali that Pakistan invested in and got nothing in return just like Bilawal Bhatti.

Yamin COULD be worth investing in depending if he can live upto the hype on here and his stats in domestic being a little better than the others.

I wonder if leaping into hype and rushing to squash hope are not in a way two sides of the same
coin. Since when did it become so difficult to suspend final judgement, one way or another? And why is
it that it must always be one player vs another, as if it were impossible to trial more than one a year?
Looks to me on the basis of long term domestic performance that both Ashraf and Yamin deserve a
go and hopefully Yamin will get one soon.

 

[Sultan Baba]

Which all-rounder can cement his spot in all three formats like Abdul Razzaq did in his time?

I don't see this going to happened but i Like if Hammad Azam do this role for Pakistan i am his fan since i see his ability in Under 19 world cup

 

[ahmadharis1]

Either Fahim Ashraf or Amir Yamin

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

nobody we have right now

 

[babajee]

If Fahim Ashraf works on his bowling he can be a real gem. His batting has immense potential.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Razzaq never cemented his place in tests.

 

[mueez14]

Hussain talat

 

[ExpressPacer]

Hussain Talat isn't a paceman, right? We need a fast bowling all-rounder and I don't think he fits the bill for that. He's a very talented batsman, however.

I don't understand what the hype for Yamin is. Bowls in the mid 120's and doesn't have the physique to be destructive as a batsman. Rather invest in Fahim.

 

[khurram39]

I don't think currently we had any pacer all rounder who can cement his place in all three formats. We can use them in LOI but not in test matches.