Which Test side has been the best in overseas conditions in recent years?

[Madplayer]

I think it has to south africa followed by Pakistan.

From Asia it has to be Pakistan who aren't letting the matches be a one sided affair.

 

[Hawkeye]

SA and Pakistan.

Other sides aren't really worth mentioning, as the difference is far too great between the top 2 away sides and the rest.

Australia and India are particularly woeful.

SL is too weak so can't consider them a major force at the moment.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Me likes this thread !! ME LIKES IT!!!!

 

[the Great Khan]

Pakistan for me. We dont play at home so everything is away hence no team matches up to us!!

 

[Haz95]

We can base this primarily on feats and how the whites struggle in Asia and the Asians struggle in the white countries.

1.Pakistan/South Africa- Capable of competing and managing to win games
2.England/India-capable of competing and winning one-offs.
3.Australia/NZ- capable of competing.

England wouldn't be in a higher category if they didn't beat SA and NZ would be in tier 1 if they'd still have BMac leading as essentially, it's the same team.

 

[jeetu]

Last 5 Years Away record

[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Team [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Won [/td][td]Lost [/td][td]Tied [/td][td]Draw [/td][td]W/L [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]1.8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0.625 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pakistan [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0.461 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]India [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]0.454 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sri Lanka [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0.454 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]New Zealand [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]30 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]0.388 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]England [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]34 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]0.368 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bangladesh [/td][td]2013-2014 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0.25 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]West Indies [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0.214 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zimbabwe [/td][td]2012-2014 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[Napa]

SA and Pakistan.

Other sides aren't really worth mentioning, as the difference is far too great between the top 2 away sides and the rest.

Australia and India are particularly woeful.

SL is too weak so can't consider them a major force at the moment.

And then there is reality. Over the last 3 years, Pakistan has played 10 Tests in SA (3), Eng (4), NZ (2) and Aus (1). They have lost 8/10, that is 80% of these Tests.

Over the same period India has played 13 Tests in SA (2), NZ (2), Eng (5) and Aus (4). They have lost 7/13, that is 54% of these Tests.

One has to be severely delusional to believe that an 80% loss record ranks a country as the best.

 

[Madplayer]

Last 5 Years Away record

[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Team [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Won [/td][td]Lost [/td][td]Tied [/td][td]Draw [/td][td]W/L [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]1.8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0.625 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pakistan [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0.461 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]India [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]0.454 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sri Lanka [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0.454 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]New Zealand [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]30 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]0.388 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]England [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]34 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]0.368 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bangladesh [/td][td]2013-2014 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0.25 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]West Indies [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0.214 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zimbabwe [/td][td]2012-2014 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

How many have India won against west indies and zimbabwe? same for Pakistan? In this 5 year period i mean.

 

[Napa]

Last 5 Years Away record

[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Team [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Won [/td][td]Lost [/td][td]Tied [/td][td]Draw [/td][td]W/L [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]1.8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0.625 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pakistan [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0.461 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]India [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]0.454 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sri Lanka [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0.454 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]New Zealand [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]30 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]0.388 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]England [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]34 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]0.368 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bangladesh [/td][td]2013-2014 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0.25 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]West Indies [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0.214 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zimbabwe [/td][td]2012-2014 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

5 year period is maladroit for comparisons. It has India playing 8 Tests in Australia while Pakistan plays only 1. If you don't want to manipulate statistics to suit whatever point you are trying to make, use either a 6 year period or a 3 year period.

 

[Pete Rose]

I think India have done well. They won a test match in South Africa, and in England and more recently spanked the West Indians.

Pakistan has done ok, the losses in NZ really took off the sheen from their earlier performances.

 

[Madplayer]

I think India have done well. They won a test match in South Africa, and in England and more recently spanked the West Indians.

Pakistan has done ok, the losses in NZ really took off the sheen from their earlier performances.

Yes i think a test win in Australia will be really good for Pakistan.

 

[Orange Tree]

In last 10 years South Africa, England and India were by far the best teams in overseas conditions.


During this time India thrashed westindies, won a series against NZ in NZ, drew a series against the mighty saffers and almost won the series against Australia in Australia but couldn't do so due to poor and biased umpiring.


So, my vote will go to Southafrica. But India and England aren't that far behind either

 

[Madplayer]

Biggest blot on Pakistan performances is a test loss to Zimbabwe

 

[jeetu]

5 year period is maladroit for comparisons. It has India playing 8 Tests in Australia while Pakistan plays only 1. If you don't want to manipulate statistics to suit whatever point you are trying to make, use either a 6 year period or a 3 year period.

last 5 year period is faster to get because its default setting of statsguru.

 

[Rayyman]

Yes i think a test win in Australia will be really good for Pakistan.

Pakistan has to do well in SA though. Too bad we don't get too many chances to rectify those 2013 performances.
That was a hard series vs Steyn and Philander on green mambas. Not to mention Hafeez and Jamshed were opening for us. Hopefully Azhar and his boys will redeem themselves in 2018.

 

[Madplayer]

Pakistan has to do well in SA though. Too bad we don't get too many chances to rectify those 2013 performances.
That was a hard series vs Steyn and Philander on green mambas. Not to mention Hafeez and Jamshed were opening for us. Hopefully Azhar and his boys will redeem themselves in 2018.

SA was a really poor outing for Pak. Even a novice like Kyle Abbott took a 7fer on debut. I think Pak had hafeez, useless gul, jamshed (debut?) , unfit irfan who started vomiting on the field, sarfaraz on debut(or with very less experience) and God knows what sort of players.

Thankfully now Pakistan have capable players who have matured and and youngsters who actually have real potential of being successful in different Conditions. Pace bowling is still a big concern. I think hasan ali should be in the test side already. He is young, can seam the ball at brisk pace and has a working brain.

Pakistan did come back in LOIs though on that tour.

 

[Buffet]

Obvious answer here is SA. No other team is even close.

 

[Madplayer]

Obvious answer here is SA. No other team is even close.

Very proud to write that aren't you?

 

[Buffet]

Very proud to write that aren't you?

I wasn't writing that with too much emotion to be honest. I was just surprised to see a discussion on an obvious answer.

 

[Rayyman]

SA was a really poor outing for Pak. Even a novice like Kyle Abbott took a 7fer on debut. I think Pak had hafeez, useless gul, jamshed (debut?) , unfit irfan who started vomiting on the field, sarfaraz on debut(or with very less experience) and God knows what sort of players.

Thankfully now Pakistan have capable players who have matured and and youngsters who actually have real potential of being successful in different Conditions. Pace bowling is still a big concern. I think hasan ali should be in the test side already. He is young, can seam the ball at brisk pace and has a working brain.

Pakistan did come back in LOIs though on that tour.

You forgot Tanvir Ahmed. nvir

 

[JaDed]

South Africa

 

[Madplayer]

I wasn't writing that with too much emotion to be honest. I was just surprised to see a discussion on an obvious answer.

I think SA is quite obvious for the top spot. The discussion is more for the second spot.

 

[Madplayer]

You forgot Tanvir Ahmed. nvir

Oh man, how did i forget the loud grunts followed by 120kph thunderbolts which put fear of God in batsman's heart nvir

 

[Buffet]

I think SA is quite obvious for the top spot. The discussion is more for the second spot.

Yah, 2nd spot is a good discussion. If Pakistan can take 1-1 in Aus, then it will be clearly Pakistan. If not then discussion will continue. Pakistan has had one good away series in Eng, but very poor series in SA, Zim and NZ. Eng has been horrible in Asian conditions and had one good series in SA. Same with Aus. India hasn't been good in any away series to be in contention.

 

[Napa]

Yah, 2nd spot is a good discussion. If Pakistan can take 1-1 in Aus, then it will be clearly Pakistan. If not then discussion will continue. Pakistan has had one good away series in Eng, but very poor series in SA, Zim and NZ. Eng has been horrible in Asian conditions and had one good series in SA. Same with Aus. India hasn't been good in any away series to be in contention.

Yeah, your alleged #1 team got properly thrashed 3-0 in a 4 Test series, escaping with a draw only thanks to rain. In comparison India did so much worse in SA losing 1-0 in a 2 Test series.

 

[King Kong]

Yah, 2nd spot is a good discussion. If Pakistan can take 1-1 in Aus, then it will be clearly Pakistan. If not then discussion will continue. Pakistan has had one good away series in Eng, but very poor series in SA, Zim and NZ. Eng has been horrible in Asian conditions and had one good series in SA. Same with Aus. India hasn't been good in any away series to be in contention.

If Australia is an away series for South Africa, so is Sri Lanka for India.

India won in Sri Lanka (where Australia got humiliated)
Won in West Indies (Where England couldn't win the series in 2015)
Won a match in England.
Was competitive in SA, AUS, NZ during their last tours.

 

[Buffet]

Yah, 2nd spot is a good discussion. If Pakistan can take 1-1 in Aus, then it will be clearly Pakistan. If not then discussion will continue. Pakistan has had one good away series in Eng, but very poor series in SA, Zim and NZ. Eng has been horrible in Asian conditions and had one good series in SA. Same with Aus. India hasn't been good in any away series to be in contention.

To add here before Indians jump on me Aus, SA, India etc won in WI. Eng and Pakistan failed to do so, but that doesn't put India as the 2nd best team in away condition by any stretch. Need to at least draw against big teams in different conditions.

2nd spot is a good discussion and it's between Eng, Pakistan and Aus right now. Yah, not much to talk here as well but all three have one bright spot with poor over all record so far.

 

[King Kong]

If Pakistan win at least one match in Australia, Pakistan edges out SA as the best team in overseas conditions.

 

[Buffet]

If Australia is an away series for South Africa, so is Sri Lanka for India.

India won in Sri Lanka (where Australia got humiliated)
Won in West Indies (Where England couldn't win the series in 2015)
Won a match in England.
Was competitive in SA, AUS, NZ during their last tours.

SA good performance doesn't start and end with Aus. If it was just in Aus then I won't put SA as an obvious choice.

 

[Buffet]

Yeah, your alleged #1 team got properly thrashed 3-0 in a 4 Test series, escaping with a draw only thanks to rain. In comparison India did so much worse in SA losing 1-0 in a 2 Test series.

I didn't claim SA to be at great WI level so calm down.

One poor away series for SA in comparison with how many poor away series for others? Answer that and you will see why SA is an obvious answer of OP.

 

[Napa]

If Australia is an away series for South Africa, so is Sri Lanka for India.

India won in Sri Lanka (where Australia got humiliated)
Won in West Indies (Where England couldn't win the series in 2015)
Won a match in England.
Was competitive in SA, AUS, NZ during their last tours.

This is the reason that India is the #1 ranked team, no less than 15 points ahead of the second ranked team.

 

[Buffet]

This is the reason that India is the #1 ranked team, no less than 15 points ahead of the second ranked team.

Thread is not about rank 1 though.

 

[Napa]

Obvious answer here is SA. No other team is even close.

India hasn't been good in any away series to be in contention.

I didn't claim SA to be at great WI level so calm down.

Dude, you are the one with the hyperbole, so you need to calm down a bit I would say.

 

[darksher]

As much as we want to tout our team as the second best in overseas conditions, the reality suggests the opposite, judging by the last 5 years record in foreign conditions, I think we deserve to be ranked lower than India reasoning being they drew 8 Tests compared to the 3 we drew, 5 more than us. Moreover we lost 2 more tests even though we have one more win but still the way they competed in SA and NZ puts them way ahead of us.

Realistically speaking there is no team currently which is capable to compete and win matches abroad consistently, so the discussion is pointless. People who rate SA as the best team in away conditions should realize that they got massacred in India comprehensively which puts their overseas reputation in question.

There is is no definitive answer as of now but if I were to pick a team from Asia capable of competing in foreign conditions, it has to be India followed by Pakistan, their record in the last few years is decent compared to ours and their is no reason to think that they won't improve on it with the current breed of players marshaled by a pro-active captain and a brilliant batsman like Kohli.

 

[Buffet]

Dude, you are the one with the hyperbole, so you need to calm down a bit I would say.

Why don't you debate the topic with arguments. Can you put performance of all teams in away tours and say it with a straight face that SA is not an obvious answer here?

 

[Pete Rose]

I want us to grind NZ to a pulp next time they tour. They ambushed us with their pitches this time

 

[Madplayer]

As much as we want to tout our team as the second best in overseas conditions, the reality suggests the opposite, judging by the last 5 years record in foreign conditions, I think we deserve to be ranked lower than India reasoning being they drew 8 Tests compared to the 3 we drew, 5 more than us. Moreover we lost 2 more tests even though we have one more win but still the way they competed in SA and NZ puts them way ahead of us.

Realistically speaking there is no team currently which is capable to compete and win matches abroad consistently, so the discussion is pointless. People who rate SA as the best team in away conditions should realize that they got massacred in India comprehensively which puts their overseas reputation in question.

There is is no definitive answer as of now but if I were to pick a team from Asia capable of competing in foreign conditions, it has to be India followed by Pakistan, their record in the last few years is decent compared to ours and their is no reason to think that they won't improve on it with the current breed of players marshaled by a pro-active captain and a brilliant batsman like Kohli.

Pakistan always thrashed NZ in NZ prior to this 2016 series even in last tour which took place 6-7 years ago. India has won and drawn a good number of tests against windies and zimbabwe. They got mauled in England and Australia under dhoni and then under virat also. Pakistan drew against england and came close to beating Aus in the first game of this series and also looking nice in this test. India hardly managed to look this good and they toured Aus and england more than once. Their major achievement is a draw in SA which should be applauded. Pakistan's worst performance was 3-0 against SA where they should have won the second test and also the nightmare loss to zimbabwe.

 

[darksher]

I want us to grind NZ to a pulp next time they tour. They ambushed us with their pitches this time

They'll manage to win a Test or give us a scare with a hard fought contest at the very least but will never completely surrender weapons which is what we did in NZ, the pitches is merely an excuse.

 

[Pete Rose]

They'll manage to win a Test or give us a scare with a hard fought contest at the very least but will never completely surrender weapons which is what we did in NZ, the pitches is merely an excuse.

No. You are hating for the sake of. There's a pattern in most of your contributions.

 

[street cricketer]

Nobody, if we are taking the current sides into consideration.

We are in a period where there is no specific great team and all are pretty close to each other. Any team among the current teams can pull ahead of the pack as the clear great team of this generation. India, Pakistan, SA, England and Australia all have the potential but at the moment, there is not much between them. The only clear difference is that most teams are dominant at home while India simply demolish any visiting side and hence their no.1 rank.

Australia have done nothing of note in asia. Ditto with England. SA did win at Australia, but that isn't really alien conditions. They did well with their past side in asia but a lot have gone since and the jury is out on whether the newer bunch could dominate in asia the same way like their seniors did. India have competed but ultimately nothing to show for results from their past overseas tours. Ditto with NZ and SL. If we are being honest, only Pakistan have an achievement of note in the series draw in England. But they also lose more than they win in overseas and aren't consistent enough to be a great team yet. Overall though there is hardly any real difference between the sides yet.

 

[DRsohail]

And then there is reality. Over the last 3 years, Pakistan has played 10 Tests in SA (3), Eng (4), NZ (2) and Aus (1). They have lost 8/10, that is 80% of these Tests.

Over the same period India has played 13 Tests in SA (2), NZ (2), Eng (5) and Aus (4). They have lost 7/13, that is 54% of these Tests.

One has to be severely delusional to believe that an 80% loss record ranks a country as the best.

how many thaey have won i think 1,,

 

[darksher]

No. You are hating for the sake of. There's a pattern in most of your contributions.

And you're highly irrational nowadays, something very unlike you keeping your reputation in hindsight.

 

[street cricketer]

Pakistan always thrashed NZ in NZ prior to this 2016 series even in last tour which took place 6-7 years ago. India has won and drawn a good number of tests against windies and zimbabwe. They got mauled in England and Australia under dhoni and then under virat also. Pakistan drew against england and came close to beating Aus in the first game of this series and also looking nice in this test. India hardly managed to look this good and they toured Aus and england more than once. Their major achievement is a draw in SA which should be applauded. Pakistan's worst performance was 3-0 against SA where they should have won the second test and also the nightmare loss to zimbabwe.

Eh? I don't think you ever watched the India tour of Australia.

India chased the Adelaide target in pretty much the same way like Pak did at Brisbane. Sure the target was much higher, but one could argue that there was nil pressure as Pakistan had absolutely no chance of reaching the target at the start while India had a realistic chance of reaching the target. Anyway that was a very close match and everyone actually lauded it as a great match.

In this match, Pakistan are at 310/6 batting first. India made close to 450 every time in their first innings after facing close to a 550 run deficit in almost all the matches, against a much stronger attack. How in the world is the former better than the latter.

India also came close to winning a test (and thereby squaring the series) in NZ and SA, only to draw those matches for the lack of fire power in their bowling attack. Definitely Pakistan has had the better overall output of drawing at England. Pakistan manage to win more overseas on account of their better bowling attack. But it's also a fact that they lose more than India do in overseas.

 

[Pete Rose]

And you're highly irrational nowadays, something very unlike you keeping your reputation in hindsight.

Could be. As I've said i have zero interest in projecting what happens in the long run or cherry picking to suit my bias. I try to pretty much look at whats happening in the moment.

 

[Syed1]

If Pakistan manage to win/draw this ongoing test series then they would atleast be the best touring Asian side.

 

[Buffet]

SA did win at Australia, but that isn't really alien conditions. They did well with their past side in asia but a lot have gone since and the jury is out on whether the newer bunch could dominate in asia.

Aren't we keeping a harder yardstick for SA by asking them to dominate in alien condition when other sides continue losing in alien conditions? Kallis and Smith were gone, we won in SL. We were poor in India and no argument there. Let's see how we do in UAE next time we go.

 

[Kashmiri_Pak_fan]

Can anyone give statistics of last 3 years as i think 3 years are enough for any team transformation and don't consider BD, WI, and Zim for obvious reasons...only other top 7 teams and consider away record of Ind, Pak, Sri to S.A, Aus, NZ, and Eng and away record of these four english teams to those 3 Asian countries...I hope u get me right

 

[street cricketer]

Aren't we keeping a harder yardstick for SA by asking them to dominate in alien condition when other sides continue losing in alien conditions? Kallis and Smith were gone, we won in SL. We were poor in India and no argument there. Let's see how we do in UAE next time we go.

No, I keep the same yard stick for everyone. I judge non asian teams by how they perform in asia and asian teams by how they perform outside asia.

You're right. I forgot about SA's win in Sri Lanka. So that probably gives the edge to them. But it is to be seen how they perform in the UAE and India, given the fact that three of their main pillars in Amla, AB and Steyn are fading.

 

[darksher]

Pakistan always thrashed NZ in NZ prior to this 2016 series even in last tour which took place 6-7 years ago. India has won and drawn a good number of tests against windies and zimbabwe. They got mauled in England and Australia under dhoni and then under virat also. Pakistan drew against england and came close to beating Aus in the first game of this series and also looking nice in this test. India hardly managed to look this good and they toured Aus and england more than once. Their major achievement is a draw in SA which should be applauded. Pakistan's worst performance was 3-0 against SA where they should have won the second test and also the nightmare loss to zimbabwe.

If there was ever a prejudiced post, it has to be this one, I mean you've clearly brushed India's note-worthy performances in NZ and SA under the carpet where they came pretty close to winning a Test and were competitive in other Tests for the most part unlike Pakistan. Surely they lost the series in Australia but drew 2 Tests and were on the brink of winning the Adelaide Test if not for Kohli's dismissal. Pakistan albeit their memorable batting performance in second innings of last test is yet to draw a Test against a significantly poor bowling attack, so it remains to be seen how they perform in the ongoing test followed by the next one, if they win either of them, your claim will have substance but right now India is ahead by some distance.

 

[Madplayer]

Eh? I don't think you ever watched the India tour of Australia.

India chased the Adelaide target in pretty much the same way like Pak did at Brisbane. Sure the target was much higher, but one could argue that there was nil pressure as Pakistan had absolutely no chance of reaching the target at the start while India had a realistic chance of reaching the target. Anyway that was a very close match and everyone actually lauded it as a great match.

In this match, Pakistan are at 310/6 batting first. India made close to 450 every time in their first innings after facing close to a 550 run deficit in almost all the matches, against a much stronger attack. How in the world is the former better than the latter.

India also came close to winning a test (and thereby squaring the series) in NZ and SA, only to draw those matches for the lack of fire power in their bowling attack. Definitely Pakistan has had the better overall output of drawing at England. Pakistan manage to win more overseas on account of their better bowling attack. But it's also a fact that they lose more than India do in overseas.

All i can say here is that the pitches were flatter when India visited Aus last time

 

[Buffet]

No, I keep the same yard stick for everyone. I judge non asian teams by how they perform in asia and asian teams by how they perform outside asia.

You're right. I forgot about SA's win in Sri Lanka. So that probably gives the edge to them. But it is to be seen how they perform in the UAE and India, given the fact that three of their main pillars in Amla, AB and Steyn are fading.

India is going to be harder no matter who plays because India in India is tougher than Pakistan/SL in UAE/Sl. We may do fine in UAE and SL. Winning series may be still tough. I would like to see us playing in India in same kind of pitches which NZ or Eng got. We may not do as bad as the last time score line suggests.

 

[Madplayer]

If there was ever a prejudiced post, it has to be this one, I mean you've clearly brushed India's note-worthy performances in NZ and SA under the carpet where they came pretty close to winning a Test and were competitive in other Tests for the most part unlike Pakistan. Surely they lost the series in Australia but drew 2 Tests and were on the brink of winning the Adelaide Test if not for Kohli's dismissal. Pakistan albeit their memorable batting performance in second innings of last test is yet to draw a Test against a significantly poor bowling attack, so it remains to be seen how they perform in the ongoing test followed by the next one, if they win either of them, your claim will have substance but right now India is ahead by some distance.

No prejudice at all. I clearly mentioned that India's performance in SA deserves applause. And when i said Pak always thrashes NZ in NZ, it was also a response to your claim that India did well in NZ. I said it because i acknowldge India's performance in NZ. And i also mentioned that India toured Eng and Aus more than once so some improvement was bound to be there second time around although India still couldnt win or draw a series in these countries.

 

[street cricketer]

All i can say here is that the pitches were flatter when India visited Aus last time

Pakistan faced much flatter tracks in England than what India received. Do you think that negates Pakistan's achievement of drawing the series? I don't think so.

Also India faced a much stronger Australian team than the current one which is probably the weakest line up they have fielded in this century at home.

 

[Black Zero]

5 year period is maladroit for comparisons. It has India playing 8 Tests in Australia while Pakistan plays only 1. If you don't want to manipulate statistics to suit whatever point you are trying to make, use either a 6 year period or a 3 year period.

I do not see anything wrong with the table as its about overseas and Australia is just one of the host nation.
India played 24 tests, Pakistan played 23 during same time frame...pretty similar sample set.

 

[Buffet]

And i also mentioned that India toured Eng and Aus more than once so some improvement was bound to be there second time around although India still couldnt win or draw a series in these countries.

I think repeat tours may help if you have the same core team with some experience. In their second go, apart from Dhoni, pretty much all others were newbies.

 

[Black Zero]

Pakistan faced much flatter tracks in England than what India received. Do you think that negates Pakistan's achievement of drawing the series? I don't think so.

Also India faced a much stronger Australian team than the current one which is probably the weakest line up they have fielded in this century at home.

If there is a slight movement in the pitch, Pakistani batsmen will perform as it's flat track, while Indian batsmen would perform as its unplayable pitch.

Current Indian lot cannot perform on any track barring flat and slow tuners.

 

[street cricketer]

India is going to be harder no matter who plays because India in India is tougher than Pakistan/SL in UAE/Sl. We may do fine in UAE and SL. Winning series may be still tough. I would like to see us playing in India in same kind of pitches which NZ or Eng got. We may not do as bad as the last time score line suggests.

I agree. South Africa did receive some tough wickets. I think they could've performed much better on the wickets England recieved. We will probably get a similar seaming wicket like the one SL is playing on when we tour next year, although I'm not complaining as that would help our ATG pacers.

 

[Buffet]

I agree. South Africa did receive some tough wickets. I think they could've performed much better on the wickets England recieved. We will probably get a similar seaming wicket like the one SL is playing on when we tour next year, although I'm not complaining as that would help our ATG pacers.

For all the talk about green pitches, I think it's a dumb idea to give a green pitch to India in SA. Batting will still score some runs and it may bring normal toothless Indian pacers in match. Normal SA pitch with some good bounce is the way to go.

 

[street cricketer]

If there is a slight movement in the pitch, Pakistani batsmen will perform as it's flat track, while Indian batsmen would perform as its unplayable pitch.

Eh? If you're insinuating that I'm branding the wickets as flat, then no. Atherton, Hussain and even Aamer Sohail in his interview to PP said that Pakistan received flat and uncharacteristically slow wickets in England.

Current Indian lot cannot perform on any track barring flat and slow tuners.

Ironically, the only match they won in their overseas tours was on a greentop at Lords batting first.

 

[Black Zero]

Eh? If you're insinuating that I'm branding the wickets as flat, then no. Atherton, Hussain and even Aamer Sohail in his interview to PP said that Pakistan received flat and uncharacteristically slow wickets in England.



Ironically, the only match they won in their overseas tours was on a greentop at Lords batting first.

Match was won due to short balls and not because of movement, if i recall correctly.

 

[street cricketer]

Match was won due to short balls and not because of movement, if i recall correctly.

You seem to recall just the last day then.

 

[Napa]

If Pakistan manage to win/draw this ongoing test series then they would atleast be the best touring Asian side.

Which would completely ignore the 0-2 whitewash they were handed out by NZ.

 

[street cricketer]

Which would completely ignore the 0-2 whitewash they were handed out by NZ.

But a series draw in England and Australia would still be far better than whatever any Asian team has achieved outside asia lately.

 

[subbu]

How many have India won against west indies and zimbabwe? same for Pakistan? In this 5 year period i mean

Pakistan always thrashed NZ in NZ prior to this 2016 series even in last tour which took place 6-7 years ago. India has won and drawn a good number of tests against windies and zimbabwe.


India last played Test Match against Zimbabwe in 2005

 

[Syed1]

Which would completely ignore the 0-2 whitewash they were handed out by NZ.

When was the last time India drew or won a series in England and Australia?

And yes you are correct it will completely ignore the 0-2 whitewash in NZ. Since Eng and Aus are tougher places to visit and India have been walloped whenever they have visited. Pakistan already have out-done India in England and if we manage to win/draw in Australia we would have outdone them in Australia as well. Hence proving to be the undisputed best Asian touring side.

Obviously it would be a hard pill for some of you to swallow, sorry honey, the truth hurts.

 

[KhalidRafi]

South Africa followed by Pakistan

 

[Napa]

But a series draw in England and Australia would still be far better than whatever any Asian team has achieved outside asia lately.

And a whitewash by NZ would be worse than anything India has experienced away from Asia lately...

 

[Napa]

When was the last time India drew or won a series in England and Australia?

And yes you are correct it will completely ignore the 0-2 whitewash in NZ. Since Eng and Aus are tougher places to visit and India have been walloped whenever they have visited. Pakistan already have out-done India in England and if we manage to win/draw in Australia we would have outdone them in Australia as well. Hence proving to be the undisputed best Asian touring side.

Obviously it would be a hard pill for some of you to swallow, sorry honey, the truth hurts.

Can't agree. A whitewash by near-minnows NZ marks out Pakistan as a bad touring side.

Also given the fact that Pakistan has lost 80% of its games in Aus, Eng, SA and NZ in recent years reinforces that opinion.

 

[street cricketer]

And a whitewash by NZ would be worse than anything India has experienced away from Asia lately...

Ultimately, wins get more highlighted than losses.

 

[Napa]

Ultimately, wins get more highlighted than losses.

Maybe in your book, but not by the ICC etc.

 

[street cricketer]

Maybe in your book, but not by the ICC etc.

I guess we have to agree if the ICC says so..

 

[Syed1]

Can't agree. A whitewash by near-minnows NZ marks out Pakistan as a bad touring side.

Also given the fact that Pakistan has lost 80% of its games in Aus, Eng, SA and NZ in recent years reinforces that opinion.

Sorry we are not playing to impress you or win you over.

 

[Orange Tree]

When was the last time India drew or won a series in England and Australia?

And yes you are correct it will completely ignore the 0-2 whitewash in NZ. Since Eng and Aus are tougher places to visit and India have been walloped whenever they have visited. Pakistan already have out-done India in England and if we manage to win/draw in Australia we would have outdone them in Australia as well. Hence proving to be the undisputed best Asian touring side.

Obviously it would be a hard pill for some of you to swallow, sorry honey, the truth hurts.

) )

Do u know when was the last time Pak managed to draw a test match against Australia in Australia?


Yes, forget about winning a series, even forget about winning a test. Tell me when was last time Pak managed to salvage a draw against Australia In Australia.



Pak haven't drawn a single test match against Australia in Australia in Last 15/20 years, haven't won a single test series against minnow West indies in West indies and just got whitewashed by NZ and here u r Making fun of India's overseas record. Lol

 

[Napa]

Sorry we are not playing to impress you or win you over.

Fair enough. Also Indians and the ICC are not trying to impress you either.

 

[Tusker]

) )

Do u know when was the last time Pak managed to draw a test match against Australia in Australia?


Yes, forget about winning a series, even forget about winning a test. Tell me when was last time Pak managed to salvage a draw against Australia In Australia.



Pak haven't drawn a single test match against Australia in Australia in Last 15/20 years, haven't won a single test series against minnow West indies in West indies and just got whitewashed by NZ and here u r Making fun of India's overseas record. Lol

Good points. You can add a whitewash by SA to that list :

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/567346.html

 

[Snow]

Team A:

Last tour of NZ: Whitewashed (0-2)
Last tour of SA: Whitewashed (0-3)
Last tour of Aus: Whitewashed (0-3)
Last tour of Eng: Drew (2-2)
Last tour of Lanka: Won 2-1
Last tour of Zimbabwe: Drew 1-1
Last tour of WI: Drew 1-1


Team B:
Last tour of NZ: Lost 0-1
Last tour of SA: Lost 0-1
Last tour of Aus: Lost 0-2
Last tour of England: Lost 1-3
Last tour of Lanka: Won 2-1
Last tour of WI: Won 2-0


Make your own mind, which team performed better.

 

[ali2220]

Funny thing is that this thread is about recent times only, Pak team that last toured Aus was totally different than the team that we have now, yet some ppl are bringing in stats for years back just to suit their point!

 

[Snow]

Funny thing is that this thread is about recent times only, Pak team that last toured Aus was totally different than the team that we have now, yet some ppl are bringing in stats for years back just to suit their point!

People used to bring India tours of Oz/England from 2011 when new team was touring again recently.

 

[ali2220]

People used to bring India tours of Oz/England from 2011 when new team was touring again recently.

So we should do the same...smart!

 

[captain.hansolo]

SA and Pakistan.

Other sides aren't really worth mentioning, as the difference is far too great between the top 2 away sides and the rest.

Australia and India are particularly woeful.

SL is too weak so can't consider them a major force at the moment.

what are you going on about son???

with the exception of South Africa winning in Australia, no visiting side has done well on the road.

because pakistan stretched australia a wee bit on the last day of a test where they were outclassed in just about every prior session you are rejoicing???