What's new

Which Test team is better? Graeme Smith's South Africa Or Virat Kohli's India?

Mamoon said:
They had several batting collapses at home and in spite of an endless supply of legends and titans and what not, they kept getting embarrassed at home. What a pity.

Imagine losing home Tests to West Indies in 2007 and Sri Lanka in 2011 and failing to beat England twice and then calling yourself a legendary Test team.
Click to expand...

Actually the cricket community called SA that, it was not self proclaimed, unlike India...
 
Player for player it's not even a comparison. Smith's SA would probably win by 8-3 or 9-2. I'll not even go into the details because it's that ludicrous.

Results wise obviously India would look better at home performances simply because they've not faced any good spin attacks of note, and you can't win Test matches/Series in India without bringing world class spinners. Besides India, which team even has 2 proper world class spinners in it's ranks? Can't think of any at the moment. It's actually insane to think that Smith's SA came to India without even a decent spinner and managed to draw the series not once but twice in 08 and 10. Lyon and O Keefe (who is not even a prolific spin bowler by any means) inflicted a 300 run loss to India and ran India all the way to the last session of play to seal the series. This Indian team is lucky they don't have to face the likes of Murali and Warne at home, seeing what even the likes of Leach have been doing to them in the recent past.

On the other hand Smith's SA had to face the onslaught of a variety of good-great fast bowling attacks at home which far outnumber the number of great spin attacks India had to face at home. Even then they lost only to Australia (and more than returned the favor when they visited Aus in return).


I'll not even bother to talk about the away performances since it would be an insult to Smith's team which is the last great away team we'll probably see for a while.
 
Last edited:
Unfair comparison. Smith's team had probably 8-9 world-class players. Kohli's India is far more inexperienced in test terms. And carrying a few passengers, next 3-4 years though will define Kohli's legacy and that will be a fair comparison.

But on the question. SA without a doubt.
 
szrana007 said:
I don't think batting standards were that higher in Strauss/Cook era. Australia had a weak batting lineup then, same with India whose batting was in transition and England feasted on those teams from 2009-2013.
Click to expand...

Strauss’s success was based on very powerful batting from 1-7, creating scoreboard pressure to help their effective (not world class) bowling.

My point is that batters’ skill sets have shrunk in the last ten years. Yes they can all hit for power, but Indians and Australians cannot survive against the swinging ball and England and Australia cannot bat against spin. India lost 1-4 to an England side which had arguably the most feeble batting in England history. England were completely clueless in the recent series, getting out to straight balls over and over, unable to detect the arm ball. Dreadful to watch.
 
Last edited:
Robert said:
Strauss’s success was based on very powerful batting from 1-7, creating scoreboard pressure to help their effective (not world class) bowling.

My point is that batters’ skill sets have shrunk in the last ten years. Yes they can all hit for power, but Indians and Australians cannot survive against the swinging ball and England and Australia cannot bat against spin. India lost 1-4 to an England side which had arguably the most feeble batting in England history. England were completely clueless in the recent series, getting out to straight balls over and over, unable to detect the arm ball. Dreadful to watch.
Click to expand...

This is the kind of post one comes up with when the focus is on sweeping grandstanding narratives instead of a granular analysis of the game.
 
Ind 2002-2010 vs SA would be fair comparison.
Sa didnt have spinners, but they missed a golden oppurtunity both in 2008 and 2010.
Simillarly, if we had Bumrah or even Shami to support Zak and Shreesanth, we would have closed out atleast 1 series out of 2006 and 2010. All 4 serieses were outstanding in terms of quality.
 
Ozymandiasza said:
I recall multiple posts before India got whitewashed in NZ that not only proclaimed India a great team, but the best ever.
Click to expand...

you said Indian team self proclaimed themselves a legendary team ? who from Indian team said that ?
 
Mahee said:
you said Indian team self proclaimed themselves a legendary team ? who from Indian team said that ?
Click to expand...

No, I said: "Actually the cricket community called SA that, it was not self proclaimed, unlike India...". Not that the Indian team said that. And it was in reply to Mamoon's post alleging that.

If you still don't understand, the cricket community said SA was an all time great team because they went nearly a decade without defeat overseas. A very difficult feat. A bunch of Indian fans, and their no 1 fan Mamoon, proclaimed their team the best ever. Actually, I don't think Mamoon said that, but it wouldn't surprise me :P
 
Last edited:
Even if bowling-wise the teams are comparable for arguments sake, batting-wise its really no contest.

Smith, Amla, Kallis and AB are just too strong.

Basically, unless its a spinning wicket, SA win comfortably.
 
Ozymandiasza said:
No, I said: "Actually the cricket community called SA that, it was not self proclaimed, unlike India...". Not that the Indian team said that. And it was in reply to Mamoon's post alleging that.

If you still don't understand, the cricket community said SA was an all time great team because they went nearly a decade without defeat overseas. A very difficult feat. A bunch of Indian fans, and their no 1 fan Mamoon, proclaimed their team the best ever. Actually, I don't think Mamoon said that, but it wouldn't surprise me :P
Click to expand...

What does self proclaim even mean nowadays?
 
They are not considered ATG like WI or Aus because ATG sides dont lose 30 odd tests in a decade overall and 10 odd tests at home. Even some very good sides have better record than this.
 
So after a great year for India in Test cricket, has Kohli's India surpassed Smith's South Africa or not ?
 
Smith’s SA if we compare teams as they stand. Current India has ATG bowling but middle order leaves too much to be desired. Rahane/ Pujara and Kohli haven’t made consistent runs. On the other hand smith’s SA had batsmen who made consistent runs across all conditions like Kallis, Abdv and Amala. Indian team has potential to be as good as Sa team but they need massive changes in middle order.
 
Smith's South Africa.

Kallis and Steyn are GOATS calibre, with other world class and Great players.
 
Last edited:
Smith's South Africa team is better than Kohli's India and its not even close.
South Africa had some legendary cricketers in their team. I can remember top 2 batsman and bowlers were South African that time.
Amla was top ranked and Devilliers was 2nd ranked while Philander was top ranked and Steyn was 2nd best behind Philander.


Team 2008-09
Smith
McKenzie
Amla
Kallis
Devilliers
Duminy
Boucher
Steyn
Morkel
Ntini
Harris


Team 2011-12
Smith
Peterson
Amla
Devilliers
Kallis
Duplessis
Boucher
Philander
Morkel
Steyn
Tahir
 
Smith's SA comfortably.

Remember, the quality of opposition sides were pretty good back then. Pakistan had Younis, Misbah and Ajmal, India were pretty strong with their ATG batting and Harbhajan-Zaheer at peak around 2008-2010( interestingly SA drew vs strong Indian side twice in India, had they toured them a couple of years later around 2012-13, they might have beaten them too as India moved in transition phase between 2011-14) and England themselves were having one of their best ever sides going till 2012 before SA beat them.

In subcontinent conditions, Kohli's India would be ahead but overall, Smith's SA takes the nod.

Smith's SA is lacking in one department, a world class spinner but the gulf in the batting quality is huge. Indian batters can't play swing or seam except Kohli but those SA batters could play all types of bowling in all conditions and have double hundreds in subcontinent vs pretty good home sides.
 
Last edited:
The only reason India is inferior is because of their batting. India even with an average attack won a couple of tests in SA. This attack will give them a run for their money. But this Indian batting will be brutalized.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
The only reason India is inferior is because of their batting. India even with an average attack won a <B>couple of tests</B> in SA. This attack will give them a run for their money. But this Indian batting will be brutalized.
Click to expand...

Time to get some facts right. The series was drawn 1-1 with India losing one of those match by an innings defeat humiliation even though that batting was miles better than the current one.

The one match that SA lost was more down to VVS just playing one of his out of blue magical knock which these modern era Indian batters are not capable of when it swings or seams.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_cricket_team_in_South_Africa_in_2010–11
 
Smith South Africa is overrated. They lost & draw lot of home series. Even they lost home test against Sri Lanka .
 
Srtfan said:
Smith South Africa is overrated. They lost & draw lot of home series. Even they lost home test against Sri Lanka .
Click to expand...

Exactly till date, Srilanka is yet to win a single test in India. They had Murali, Herath so many guys. Sehwag thrashed the living daylights out of them by scoring 287 runs in 2.5 sessions.
 
Lol, India could barely win a series vs Sri Lanka away from home for 22 years between 1993-2015. That tells you about the quality of that Sri Lanka series.

There is a clear gulf in quality of Sri Lanka, England and Pakistan team that Smith's SA faced compared to the recent ones of SL, Eng ( which Kohli lost 1-3 lol and dropped a test at home too), Pak and current SA team.

Australia, New Zealand, India were pretty good too during Smith's days and Smith achieved more success than loss against them too.

While India have flopped more than succeeded against the likes of England and New Zealand.
 
Ted123 said:
Time to get some facts right. The series was drawn 1-1 with India losing one of those match by an innings defeat humiliation even though that batting was miles better than the current one.

The one match that SA lost was more down to VVS just playing one of his out of blue magical knock which these modern era Indian batters are not capable of when it swings or seams.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_cricket_team_in_South_Africa_in_2010–11
Click to expand...

Lol South Africa all out around 130 in 1st innings of 2nd test and they were losing 3rd test almost
 
Ted123 said:
Lol, India could barely win a series vs Sri Lanka away from home for 22 years between 1993-2015. That tells you about the quality of that Sri Lanka series.

There is a clear gulf in quality of Sri Lanka, England and Pakistan team that Smith's SA faced compared to the recent ones of SL, Eng ( which Kohli lost 1-3 lol and dropped a test at home too), Pak and current SA team.

Australia, New Zealand, India were pretty good too during Smith's days and Smith achieved more success than loss against them too.

While India have flopped more than succeeded against the likes of England and New Zealand.
Click to expand...

Sri Lanka yet to win a test in india forget about series win :qdkcheeky
 
Ted123 said:
Lol, India could barely win a series vs Sri Lanka away from home for 22 years between 1993-2015. That tells you about the quality of that Sri Lanka series.

There is a clear gulf in quality of Sri Lanka, England and Pakistan team that Smith's SA faced compared to the recent ones of SL, Eng ( which Kohli lost 1-3 lol and dropped a test at home too), Pak and current SA team.

Australia, New Zealand, India were pretty good too during Smith's days and Smith achieved more success than loss against them too.

While India have flopped more than succeeded against the likes of England and New Zealand.
Click to expand...

He captained 7 series vs Australia lost 4 of them drew one of them won 2 of them. Both after the retirement of many top Australian players and they started rebuilding. Even with great players SA did not stand a chance against Australia home and away. If you can't compete with many sides of your era home and away then your team is not that great. Make no mistake i loved a lot of south african players of the 2000s. Individually they had amazing players. But even with them they couldn't dominate. People actually appreciated SA lol But you had to bring up this 2 test "white wash" to discredit India. So people are trying to educate you that SA got their own shellacking moments.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
He captained 7 series vs Australia lost 4 of them drew one of them won 2 of them. Both after the retirement of many top Australian players and they started rebuilding. Even with great players SA did not stand a chance against Australia home and away. If you can't compete with many sides of your era home and away then your team is not that great. Make no mistake i loved a lot of south african players of the 2000s. Individually they had amazing players. But even with them they couldn't dominate. People actually appreciated SA lol But you had to bring up this 2 test "white wash" to discredit India. So people are trying to educate you that SA got their own shellacking moments.
Click to expand...

Let us get some facts straight into your head. Ofcourse the Indian head count is high here so they come in like a bunch of mosquitos.

<B>Smith's South Africa achievement</B> :

1. Two test series wins in Australia( one vs no.1 Aus side of that time)
2. Two test series wins in England( one vs no.1 England side of that time)
3. Two test series draw in India( both vs one of the top Indian side going at that time and the bowling was pretty good too with Zaheer and Harbhajan at peak)
4. Test series win in Pakistan and two test series draw in UAE vs Pakistan.
5. Test series win vs NZ everywhere.
6. Test series win vs WI everywhere.

<B>Kohli's India achievement</B> :

1. One Test series win in Australia vs Smith- Warnerless Australia, lol.
2. One Test series 2-1 lead in England vs Stokesless England.
3. Yet to come series win in South Africa vs weakest SA side ever lol.
4. Test series win vs a very weak SL side everywhere.
5. Test series win vs a very weak SL side everywhere.

Now, use some common sense and tell me which is a better team based on these achievements??

The problem with a lot of Indian fans here is also that in their mind, they have already won test series in England and hyping their team assuming they already gonna win everything till 2025. If that happens, I am sure I will change my stance. But currently, their achievements stands for mostly what they did in home conditions between 2015-2021 and the 2018 win was vs Smith-Warnerless Aus team.

Basically, you guys are just bunch of bees capable of only making noises in a form of herd lol.
 
Ted123 said:
Let us get some facts straight into your head. Ofcourse the Indian head count is high here so they come in like a bunch of mosquitos.

<B>Smith's South Africa achievement</B> :

1. Two test series wins in Australia( one vs no.1 Aus side of that time)
2. Two test series wins in England( one vs no.1 England side of that time)
3. Two test series draw in India( both vs one of the top Indian side going at that time and the bowling was pretty good too with Zaheer and Harbhajan at peak)
4. Test series win in Pakistan and two test series draw in UAE vs Pakistan.
5. Test series win vs NZ everywhere.
6. Test series win vs WI everywhere.

<B>Kohli's India achievement</B> :

1. One Test series win in Australia vs Smith- Warnerless Australia, lol.
2. One Test series 2-1 lead in England vs Stokesless England.
3. Yet to come series win in South Africa vs weakest SA side ever lol.
4. Test series win vs a very weak SL side everywhere.
5. <B>Test series win vs a very weak SL side everywhere</B>.

Now, use some common sense and tell me which is a better team based on these achievements??

The problem with a lot of Indian fans here is also that in their mind, they have already won test series in England and hyping their team assuming they already gonna win everything till 2025. If that happens, I am sure I will change my stance. But currently, their achievements stands for mostly what they did in home conditions between 2015-2021 and the 2018 win was vs Smith-Warnerless Aus team.

Basically, you guys are just bunch of bees capable of only making noises in a form of herd lol.
Click to expand...

Typo..Windies.
 
Just you know India did beat with Warner and Smith with bowlers like Natrajan, sundar, Thakur, why do you ignore what players India lost. No kohli No Jadeja No Ashwin. Stokes averages 18 vs India in England.
 
I'm pretty sure if India win in NZ next time around, even NZ would be labelled "mediocre" and "wOrSt nZ sIdE eVeR". :91:

As they say, there's no method and bounds to hate and bitterness.
 
I'd still say Smith's saffers were slightly better as they were unbeaten away from home for years and years. But they kept on losing home series to Australia and drew to India and England while India has a 100% record at home for a decade now.
 
[MENTION=146057]Ted123[/MENTION]
South Africa draw test series in ind in 2008 against sachinless india
South Africa draw test series in ind in 2010 against dravidless ind, in fact dravid missed full series & laxman missed first test.
 
Mesozoic said:
I'd still say Smith's saffers were slightly better as they were unbeaten away from home for years and years. But they kept on losing home series to Australia and drew to India and England while India has a 100% record at home for a decade now.
Click to expand...

Total respect for SA. But even with such talented players they were extremely defensive. Playing for draw from first day in India didn't reflect well on them..infact smith even talked about it.. India even with a weak middle order is extremely aggressive. In terms of attitude India edges out. Australia was ultra aggressive back then. Often went at 4 an over.
 
Is there a win/loss ratio available for each of the two sides that we could use for a direct comparison?
 
Manunited18 said:
Smith's South Africa.

Kallis and Steyn are GOATS calibre, with other world class and Great players.
Click to expand...

Teams are not judge based on how many ATG players in the team but based on how they performed based on team results.
 
I think both Kohli and Smith deserve huge credit for building world class teams and are two of the best 5 test captains to play the game (Steve Waugh, Clive Lloyd, Mike Brearley) and that's where the comparison can stop in my view because beyond that are all subjective opinions.
 
Last edited:
Mesozoic said:
Yeah and I wonder how that series ended. :)
Click to expand...
Lol, don't feed the troll. Did you see how he/she put asterisks against whatever we won during last few years while no such asterisks for Smith's SA?

That should have been the giveaway that he/she is a troll.
 
Devadwal said:
Teams are not judge based on how many ATG players in the team but based on how they performed based on team results.
Click to expand...
This.

Only thing matters is team result, not how many great players it comprises of.
 
[MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION]
South Africa 2008-2014
Match 64 won-35 lost-13 draw-16 W/L-2.69
India 2015-2021
Match-72 won-44 lost-15 draw-13 W/L-2.93
 
James said:
Is there a win/loss ratio available for each of the two sides that we could use for a direct comparison?
Click to expand...

South Africa W/L ratio from 2007 to 2014 = 2.733

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...anval1=span;team=3;template=results;type=team

India's W/L ratio from 2015 to present = 2.933

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...anval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team

So neck and neck between the two teams I would say, with India's W/L slightly better than South Africa's
 
Virat Kohli indian test team is 3rd greatest ever test team in the world just behind WI and Australia
 
Comparing the two teams in the following categories
SA (2008 - 2014) vs india (Oct 2018 - Current)

1. Away Result in Alien condition (SENA for asian countries, Asia for SENA)
2. Overall away Record
3. Home Record


When comparing SA of 2008-14 and India of 2018 end-2022, here are the results
1. Away in alien conditions
SA in SL + Ind + Pak (UAE) - 5 series - 1 win, 4 draws. W/L 1.33
Ind in SENA - 5 series - 2 wins, 1 loss, 2 ongoing (Eng + SA), 1 WTC Final loss - W/L - 1.16

2. Overall away Record
SA - 10 series - 6 wins, 4 Draws. W/L - 2.6 (excluding Bangladesh)
Ind - 6 series - 3 wins, 1 loss, 2 ongoing (Eng + SA), 1 WTC Final loss. W/L - 1.5

3. Home Record
SA - 12 series - 7 wins, 3 draws, 2 losses - W/L - 2.25
Ind - 5 Series - 5 wins, 0 draws, 0 losses - W/L - 11

After this analysis I would conclude the following
1. SA of 2008 - 2014 is slightly ahead of India of end 2018 - current.
2. The time period (no. of series and tests etc) is also small for India
3. India rarely draws series. Its either a win or a loss
4. India and SA are nearly as strong in alien conditions. If India is to win the current series in SA and in Eng, they would clearly be ahead due to a superior series wins. This alone will put India ahead of SA altogether
5. SA have a superior overall away record - If India can sustain a good away record for the next year or 2 (they should have a tour to SL& WI planned soon), they will come very close to SA
6. There is absolutely no comparison in home records with India smashing any team that arrives at its shores.

So, in summary - If India can win the away series in SA and England, they would be ahead of SA. At this point, only the overall Away record of SA will be slightly superior, which India can overcome by maintaining a winning away record for the next 1-2 years. This obviously assumes that India does not drop any series at home.
 
Smith's South Africa won everywhere except for India. But, South Africa drew in India and gave a good fight.

Kohli's India didn't win in New Zealand.

I think Smith's South Africa was better.
 
Last edited:
sweep_shot said:
Smith's South Africa won everywhere except for India. But, South Africa drew in India and gave a good fight.

Kohli's India didn't win in New Zealand.

I think Smith's South Africa was better.
Click to expand...

Smith's South Africa lost 2 home series to Australia and won only 60% of home test series
 
Srtfan said:
[MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION]
South Africa 2008-2014
Match 64 won-35 lost-13 draw-16 W/L-2.69
India 2015-2021
Match-72 won-44 lost-15 draw-13 W/L-2.93
Click to expand...

Heisenberg111 said:
South Africa W/L ratio from 2007 to 2014 = 2.733

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...anval1=span;team=3;template=results;type=team

India's W/L ratio from 2015 to present = 2.933

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...anval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team

So neck and neck between the two teams I would say, with India's W/L slightly better than South Africa's
Click to expand...

Thanks to both.

I expected that India’s W/L would be superior because SA seemed to draw quite a few home Test series during their otherwise strong period.
 
James said:
Thanks to both.

I expected that India’s W/L would be superior because SA seemed to draw quite a few home Test series during their otherwise strong period.
Click to expand...
Lol no till now Kohli has superior win loss.
Smith has 1.83 w/l and Kohli 2.93
 
Personally speaking Smith South Africa was better easily but they underachieved big time.
So it is all about potential vs result
 
sweep_shot said:
Smith's South Africa won everywhere except for India. But, South Africa drew in India and gave a good fight.

Kohli's India didn't win in New Zealand.

I think Smith's South Africa was better.
Click to expand...

A team losing 2 series at home is wrose then away series lose .
 
Hansie Cronje team gave better result than Smith team, apart from Australia they beat everybody, they beat every sub continental team in this home.
So Smith team is not even better than Cronje one in statistics.
While Cronje team did loose to Australia in home and away but they gave hell of a fight, if not for Mark waugh hundred South Africa may have won the series.
How badly Australia embarassed Smith South Africa in 2005-2006 lol. Hell even weak England managed to win test against that Australia
Then loosing every test to Srilanka away, they even lost one test when Murlidharan was not playing and end up loosing wicket to Jaysurya.
Now compare this to Cronje South africa, they were behind 100 runs in first inning because of Murli magic and have to chase over 200 in fourth inning, so Cronje decided to counter attack Murali and made 31 ball 50 to chase down the total
 
Last edited:
Navdeep Srivastava said:
Hansie Cronje team gave better result than Smith team, apart from Australia they beat everybody, they beat every sub continental team in this home.
So Smith team is not even better than Cronje one in statistics.
While Cronje team did loose to Australia in home and away but they gave hell of a fight, if not for Mark waugh hundred South Africa may have won the series.
How badly Australia embarassed Smith South Africa in 2005-2006 lol. Hell even weak England managed to win test against that Australia
Then loosing every test to Srilanka away, they even lost one test when Murlidharan was not playing and end up loosing wicket to Jaysurya.
Now compare this to Cronje South africa, they were behind 100 runs in first inning because of Murli magic and have to chase over 200 in fourth inning, so Cronje decided to counter attack Murali and made 31 ball 50 to chase down the total
Click to expand...

Good point. Hansie Cronje was a fiesty, fiery character. A downright street fighter. I still remember his intensity in Australia standing up to them mid 90s tour to Australia.
 
Robert said:
No, because England are so weak now. And SA are not test class any more.

Smith’s team would duff Kohli’s team up.
Click to expand...

Like how they blanked Dhoni's team 3-0 in 2010-11?

Same team lost 4-0 in England and 4-0 Australia.
 
The team with a better W/L should take this.
Also when talking about Smiths team you are thinking of every player in peak form while in India's case we are considering current form. Lol

Consider Kohli and Pujara at their peak too when you make such comparison.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
The team with a better W/L should take this.
Also when talking about Smiths team you are thinking of every player in peak form while in India's case we are considering current form. Lol

Consider Kohli and Pujara at their peak too when you make such comparison.
Click to expand...

Yeah lol, they are taking Smith from 2008 , why wasn't he a captain from 2003.
If you pick and choose then Dhoni may be the greatest captain in test between 2008 and 2011 wc, his team was harldy loosing any match
 
Test Cricket is about adaptability across various conditions.

The team that adapts better to all conditions is a better team. That's Smith SA.

Kohli's India are improving but they are nowhere as adaptable away from home as the Saffers were.

It is like who you pick as opening batter in Test Cricket- Smith/Cook or Warner/Rohit?? Obviously, Smith/Cook because they have adapted to other conditions more prominently than Warner has.

Further, the quality of the modern era teams barring three teams are simply not comparable to the ones that Smith's Saffers had. That era had 7 very good teams. This is why Kohli's India's loss to South Africa and England in 2018 goes against them. They lost to England also by a margin of 4-1 that year.

The Pujara's, Ashwin and Jadeja's are statistically as good as Amla, Steyn and Philander. But they are not rated as highly as the latter three because of their lack of away performances. So, that goes against Indian team.
 
Result wise or player quality wise? Result wise India is better. Player quality wise, South Africa had one of the GOAT team, ever. Two GOAT players (Kallis and Steyn), an ATG opener in Smith and ATG ABD. Not sure if Philander counts but he was pretty great too.
 
Ted123 said:
Test Cricket is about adaptability across various conditions.

The team that adapts better to all conditions is a better team. That's Smith SA.

Kohli's India are improving but they are nowhere as adaptable away from home as the Saffers were.

It is like who you pick as opening batter in Test Cricket- Smith/Cook or Warner/Rohit?? Obviously, Smith/Cook because they have adapted to other conditions more prominently than Warner has.

Further, the quality of the modern era teams barring three teams are simply not comparable to the ones that Smith's Saffers had. That era had 7 very good teams. This is why Kohli's India's loss to South Africa and England in 2018 goes against them. They lost to England also by a margin of 4-1 that year.

The Pujara's, Ashwin and Jadeja's are statistically as good as Amla, Steyn and Philander. But they are not rated as highly as the latter three because of their lack of away performances. So, that goes against Indian team.
Click to expand...

Philander mostly performed in south africa and swing friendly conditions.. What is his record in Asia?
 
Graeme Smith's South Africa were a great travelling team but an average home side (never defeated England or Australia in a series at home, and lost test matches at home routinely including to the West Indies, Sri Lanka, India and Pakistan), whereas Kohli's India are a great home side and a very good travelling team.

The current Indian team deserves a much higher spot in the pantheon than Smith's team.
 
Navdeep Srivastava said:
Lol no till now Kohli has superior win loss.
Smith has 1.83 w/l and Kohli 2.93
Click to expand...

Would have been much higher if not for many Tests drawn due to bad weather when the opposition were on the mat, just recently Kanpur vs NZ, Edgbaston, Sydney 2019, Kolkatta 2017 vs SL, then WI escaped atleast once IIRC.
 
The one thing i would say that india MO with VK , jinks and Che pu/iyer/vihari is gonna fire soon along with pant/ash/thakur and we shall be getting that 375-400.
Our bowling is serviceable in all conditions.
I donot know who or which is the best side, but when the above happens, we will be hard to catch.
 
Smith's SA is better.

India couldn't even beat the Saffers in the previous tour of 2018 when de Villiers alone made the difference with his game changing knocks in that tour.

Imagine Smith's SA with four such batsman- Kallis, Smith, ABDV and Amla together. Kohli's India basically have no chance against that side.
 
Smith saffer couldn’t even beat weak india in 2009.just check the indian batsman who played first test in Nagpur, murli vijay at 3, badrinath at 5 & saha played as pure batsman.dravid & laxman was injured & ganguly retired. Laxman came in next match & Ind won by innings. During 2008-2013 Indian spin attack was all time low.kumble retired & bhaji was done.
 
Ted123 said:
Test Cricket is about adaptability across various conditions.

The team that adapts better to all conditions is a better team. That's Smith SA.

Kohli's India are improving but they are nowhere as adaptable away from home as the Saffers were.

It is like who you pick as opening batter in Test Cricket- Smith/Cook or Warner/Rohit?? Obviously, Smith/Cook because they have adapted to other conditions more prominently than Warner has.

Further, the quality of the modern era teams barring three teams are simply not comparable to the ones that Smith's Saffers had. That era had 7 very good teams. This is why Kohli's India's loss to South Africa and England in 2018 goes against them. They lost to England also by a margin of 4-1 that year.

The Pujara's, Ashwin and Jadeja's are statistically as good as Amla, Steyn and Philander. But they are not rated as highly as the latter three because of their lack of away performances. So, that goes against Indian team.
Click to expand...

1. As I mentioned in my reply to one of your posts, it is clear that this Indian team has done better in SENA (if they win in Eng and SA) that the SA team did in Asia.
2. Sa lost 2 series at home and drew another 4. India on the other hand have won each and every test series at home. Not winning at home ought to have a huge impact while rating a team.
3. Overall away record for SA is better, but India could achieve that in the next year or 2 as they tour SL and WI.
4. You cannot compare the players 1:1 as there is no proof how one would have done. One can only compare the results and it is clear India will be ahead if they win SA and Eng series
5. You put an asterisk on the India win against an Aus team sans Smith and Warner. But no asterisk for the SA win in India sans Dravid and Laxman?
 
Smith's SA is far superior to Kohli's India, and is still regarded as the third best side. The touring record of Smith's SA is simply stunning and worthy of the praise it received from his peers.
 
Smith's SA and it is not even close.

The Indian team has potential but their over persistence to seniority culture has costed them an important away series. The test series losses in South Africa and New Zealand will hurt them the most when these players retire and look behind at their legacy.
 
Was just looking at Smith's record away from home from 07 to 2014. 35 matches, won 18 and lost just 5. History team averaged 42 runs per wicket. Crazy!

Interestingly I'd have loved to see the likes of Tendulkar play with the likes of Bumrah and Shami. That's two series wins in SA guaranteed imo 06/07 and 10/11.
 
Last Monetarist said:
Graeme Smith's South Africa were a great travelling team but an average home side (never defeated England or Australia in a series at home, and lost test matches at home routinely including to the West Indies, Sri Lanka, India and Pakistan), whereas Kohli's India are a great home side and a very good travelling team.

The current Indian team deserves a much higher spot in the pantheon than Smith's team.
Click to expand...

Sorry, completely disagree. Level of opposition isn't the same. Should be noted England didn't tour back in 2012 once SA took the mace from them. Philander made us significantly stronger than we were in 09 when they managed 2 great escapes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

The Bald Eagle
  • Locked
Pakistan vs South Africa | 1st Test | Lahore | October 12-16 | Pre-Match Discussion
2 3
Replies
235
Views
5K
The Bald Eagle
The Bald Eagle
Ball Blazer
South Africa tour of Pakistan (2025)
2
Replies
125
Views
4K
Ball Blazer
Ball Blazer
Savak
SENA stats don’t lie: Pakistan edge India in England and New Zealand
2
Replies
112
Views
3K
harshjoshi87
harshjoshi87
M
How Important is Saud Shakeel for Pakistan against South Africa? 🏏
Replies
2
Views
164
TheSultan
T
The Bald Eagle
"The Ultimate goal is to win the World Cup in South Africa in 2027": Shubman Gill
Replies
41
Views
866
bunda_bindaas
B
Back
Top