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Who have emerged recently as the greatest powerhouse for chokers? India, Pakistan, New Zealand or South Africa?

Who have emerged recently as the greatest powerhouse for chokers?

  • Total voters
    70
Nikhil_cric said:
India simply don't have the talent to win ICC tournaments.

You can't choke if you are flawed in the first place.

In 2011, we had matchwinning batters from 1 to 7.

We haven't had that after that World Cup.

We don't even have batting all-rounders or at least don't select them. We were the only team without batting allrounders in the entire World Cup.

We played SKY at 6 and Jadeja at 7.

If and when, India gets genuine batting until 7 with a couple of batting allrounders in that top 7, then they can be considered to have a real shot at winning an ICC tournament
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More than the talent, it is the structure that won't allow India to win tournaments. Until they break that structure they will never win. THey will continue relying on perfect games. 5 (can't bowl) +1 + 2 AR (poor with bat) + 4(can't bat). This combo won't win tournament for next 100 years. India under-19 has won 2 world cups reached 5th final now. Because the combination is different.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
More than the talent, it is the structure that won't allow India to win tournaments. Until they break that structure they will never win. THey will continue relying on perfect games. 5 (can't bowl) +1 + 2 AR (poor with bat) + 4(can't bat). This combo won't win tournament for next 100 years. India under-19 has won 2 world cups reached 5th final now. Because the combination is different.
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I agree that it would put India in a better position. There were definitely 3-4 issues at least

They are terrible at "manufacturing" allrounders. Look at how NZ and Australia managed to extract overs from Glenn Phillips and Travis Head respectively .

Allowed them to bat deep.

Batting heavy combination is always better in LOIs and you need 5th bowler's quota to be covered by batting all-rounders

Secondly, the issue of selection . SKY was a big gamble at #6, ESPECIALLY in an already shallow batting lineup.
He was selected purely on his T20 ability and was the biggest flop in the tournament.

Thirdly, that lineup had 6 right handers coming in one after the other and that's terrible in LOIs. You need a couple of left handers to take down certain match ups.

And lastly, as good as the bowling was, the pace attack needs a bit more variety . You can't have three 5'11" right arm seamers in an attack .
They become easier to line up. You need to have something more.

Either a high release seamer or a left arm option etc.

India persisted with Siraj throughout the tournament despite him being average and we simply didn't have options
 
Yesterday, South Africa U19 emerged as chokers again. They were winning it and were on top of India left-right, but what a choke from them. Credit has to be given to India U9 boys, they saved themselves from yet another knockout defeat.
 
I still expect India to win today against England but what a collapse by their top order.
 
In a video on his YouTube channel, Ravichandran Ashwin acknowledged India’s drought of the ICC trophy:

“We have been on a drought to win ICC trophies for years now and have consistently been knocked out in the semis or finals. And this is yet another year where the ICC T20 World Cup follows the IPL final by just five days.”
 
New Zealand proved to be the chokers so far in the ICC T20 World Cup. They just could not take off and they might be out of this 2024 World Cup soon.

Fight to earnt he title of the greatest choker of all time is soon to be settled with New Zealand winning the title.
 
Pakistan, by far. Choked against USA in a Super Over. That too in a format they are actually half decent at.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Pakistan, by far. Choked against USA in a Super Over. That too in a format they are actually half decent at.
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Yes Amir pulled off one of the biggest chokes in cricket history.

Hopefully he can redeem himself if we get into the next stage.

But that choke job was so severe that his name should actually be listed amongst the choking powerhouses outlined in the OP. He is right up there with the whole of South Africa ICC tournament cricketing history.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Yes Amir pulled off one of the biggest chokes in cricket history.

Hopefully he can redeem himself if we get into the next stage.

But that choke job was so severe that his name should actually be listed amongst the choking powerhouses outlined in the OP. He is right up there with the whole of South Africa ICC tournament cricketing history.
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Should it really have got to that point where a Super Over was needed though ?
 
Pakistan always chokes against India and Australia.

South Africa chokes in every tournament, regardless of who they face in the knockout stages.

India can't win the big one, looking at the team they have it is fair to say that they are the biggest powerhouse chokers at the moment. They should have won at least 3 ICC titles in the last 8 years.
 
aukhan said:
Pakistan always chokes against India and Australia.

South Africa chokes in every tournament, regardless of who they face in the knockout stages.

India can't win the big one, looking at the team they have it is fair to say that they are the biggest powerhouse chokers at the moment. They should have won at least 3 ICC titles in the last 8 years.
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Not really. Max you can consider last game and 2022 game a choke otherwise they've butchered us through and through. As for Australia yes they've choked but their encounters in recent times has been a one sided massacre.

The rest I agree
 
aukhan said:
Pakistan always chokes against India and Australia.

South Africa chokes in every tournament, regardless of who they face in the knockout stages.

India can't win the big one, looking at the team they have it is fair to say that they are the biggest powerhouse chokers at the moment. They should have won at least 3 ICC titles in the last 8 years.
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They should have won the home world cup but which others?

Pakistan should also have won the T20 WC in UAE, which was essentially a home tournament. We also choked in the Asia Cup final during that period.
 
No doubt India Are the king of chokers. With all the resources, money, at their disposal, they have won nothing for over a decade. LOL
 
DeadlyVenom said:
They should have won the home world cup but which others?

Pakistan should also have won the T20 WC in UAE, which was essentially a home tournament. We also choked in the Asia Cup final during that period.
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In tournaments one need big match players ..India had one or two in yuvraj and ghambhir , that team won two World Cup for us ..Last worldcup we dominated till final , but team lacked killer punch in the end ..The classical difference between a good and great team ..
 
Pakistan are not chokers, they are just rubbish skill-wise.

Name me anyone in our cricket who can make a come back from the position England were in a few overs ago.
 
Its SA tourney I sense now, They have been erratic but have been winning crunch situations like crazy.. Bangladesh, Nepal , patchy wins against USA and Netherlands and now awesome comeback against Eng.
 
Markram leading is a big difference

His expressions never change whatsoever in any situation
 
Ngl I have talked alot of rubbish about South Africa but they have been nothing short of brilliant and the most clutch team in this tournament so far.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
Still they are lacking as a batting unit.

TBH they dont give you the feeling that they can win this World Cup.
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The batting has not come through the way it should have. But on paper it is definitely one of the most destructive batting line-ups in the tournament.
 
aukhan said:
CT 17
WC 2019
1st TEST Championship
T20 WC 2023

They all were India's title to take.
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There is no way India were favourites for 2019WC. England were the number 1 team and playing at home. India were 2nd favourites tho. Therefore I wouldn't call it a choke as India would have lost the final to England in any case.

1st World Test Championship was played in Green Seaming conditions with the toss won by New Zealand. It was like New Zealand playing at home. India were behind the entire game. They should have drawn the match though and shared the title.


The 2 tournaments that India should have won are CT 17 and WC 23.

CT is almost a redundant tournament so it doesn't matter a lot.

Therefore it comes down to the ODI World Cup 2023 that India should have definitely won without doubt but choked badly. Australia outsmarted India and took it away and ofcourse India choked.
 
India tops group stages and then chokes in the matches than matter.

This pattern has just continued. They peak too early with the top order scoring the bulk of the runs leaving the middle order unprepared in the knockout games when they are put in a tough situation. The team always plays conservative cricket in these crunch games. We kinda the knockout games play like how Pakistan does in group stages.
 
If not winning is fated, I’ll take choking in the finals 100/100 times than not even qualifying to play among the big boys. There’s one thing being a mediocre and low quantity team, and another always a consistently performing team losing the plot in SF or Finals.
Pakistani fans calling India chokers is a lot like a pauper saying Bill Gates is poorer than Jeff Bezos!! Congratulations on not being chokers!
 
England also wants to join the race I guess. They should have won against South Africa.
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
England has two ICC trophies in the last 5 years! A slight blip doesnt count among legendary chokes! and moreover England has lost focus into too much "bazball" .
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Yeah, you are right. They still have trophies to show so not gonna say they are chokers as of yet. But they really should should have won against South Africa, they were in control early.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Yeah, you are right. They still have trophies to show so not gonna say they are chokers as of yet. But they really should should have won against South Africa, they were in control early.
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They shouldnt even have reached this close after being about 60 something for 4 at 10 overs!!
They clawed back and then fizzled!
SA was about to choke big time!
 
Pakistan is out of this debate as a "choker" is a team that traditionally performs well but then the pressure gets to them in big games/clutch situations which they would otherwise be expected to steamroll if it were any other Sunday.

Pakistan just implodes regardless of circumstances.

Rest are still up for debate though, particularly India in recent memory given the B2B WTC and WC finals losses.
 
Well SA and India are known for their chocking but this T20 World Cup has been an anomaly as both will enter Final as undefeated sides. Very hard to believe
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Well SA and India are known for their chocking but this T20 World Cup has been an anomaly as both will enter Final as undefeated sides. Very hard to believe
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Two things didn't work in this world cup. Choking and khudrat ka nizam. Professional play with better teams winning on the day. Table toppers going to the final instead of teams that relied B beating C and D beating A by a certain NRR. Best two teams are in the final.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Well SA and India are known for their chocking but this T20 World Cup has been an anomaly as both will enter Final as undefeated sides. Very hard to believe
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No fluke win were happened in this tournament .

Quality team's are reached in the final by playing quality circket unlike 2022 World T20 . :kp
 
Oh South Africa. 32 years and counting !

That was a golden opportunity with a run a ball needed and they still couldn't get over the line.

That will be a bitter pill to swallow, but Markram captained well in this tournament and has many skilful players. Good luck to them.
 
It’s all about expectations! Your only chokers if your England, Australia, and India the 3 richest teams in the world and you fail to win ICC tournaments, outside of that you can’t be called a choker if your not expected to win a ICC tournament
 
Thephenom said:
It’s all about expectations! Your only chokers if your England, Australia, and India the 3 richest teams in the world and you fail to win ICC tournaments, outside of that you can’t be called a choker if your not expected to win a ICC tournament
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lmao love the goal post! Yay we got another one
 
India have 2nd most ties in ODIs

Most ties for a team in ODIs

11 - West Indies
10 - India
9 - Australia
9 - England
9 - Pakistan
 
This is a giving thread !!
FearlessRoar said:
India have 2nd most ties in ODIs

Most ties for a team in ODIs

11 - West Indies
10 - India
9 - Australia
9 - England
9 - Pakistan
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If Tied matches are a criteria, I think the it would be the chasing team that would be considered that choked.
Tied ODI matches while chasing.

Team
West Indies7
England6
Australia5
India5
Pakistan4
New Zealand3
South Africa3
Netherlands2
Sri Lanka2
Zimbabwe2
 
The Bald Eagle said:
India should be really thankful to South Africa as they saved them from the brink of another mega event choking.
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I agree. We should also be thankful to minnow Pakistan team , Buttler and Mitchell Starc - all chokers and that's why we even reached the final.

Basically we just managed choke less than our lolworthy opponents.

I mean we beat teams with an idle stump like Jadeja in our lineup.
 
Do we call it a choke what happened in India vs Sri Lanka ODI??

Yes, I guess so It was a complete brain fade moment.
 
Nobody is as poor as pakistan in choking, Losing to minnows like Bangladesh, Zimbabwe is one thing but losing to usa is another, these are only pakistan things, only qualified for the world cup semifinals once in 6 world cups if we are chokers than Pakistan are jokers of world cricket.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
I agree. We should also be thankful to minnow Pakistan team , Buttler and Mitchell Starc - all chokers and that's why we even reached the final.

Basically we just managed choke less than our lolworthy opponents.

I mean we beat teams with an idle stump like Jadeja in our lineup.
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Bro you know Australia, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, Pakistan had been there too in finals with India in the last decade. And you know who lost in a lope sided encounter then.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Bro you know Australia, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, Pakistan had been there too in finals with India in the last decade. And you know who lost in a lope sided encounter then.
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Last decade(2010-19) icc trophies count

Ind 2 ( wc, ct)
Eng 2 (wc, t20wc)
Wi 2 ( 2 t20wc)
Aus 1 (wc)
Sl 1 (t20 wc)
Pak 1 ( ct)

We aren't chokers 😄😄
 
Rayavaram said:
Last decade(2010-19) icc trophies count

Ind 2 ( wc, ct)
Eng 2 (wc, t20wc)
Wi 2 ( 2 t20wc)
Aus 1 (wc)
Sl 1 (t20 wc)
Pak 1 ( ct)

We aren't chokers 😄😄
Click to expand...


Champions trophy is a second grade meaningless tournament and was rightfully scrapped. It's prestige is probably barely above Asia cup's. No one gave a damn when we won it in 2013.

Only World Titles in all three formats should matter.
 
Until 400 India played like Australia against New Zealand and afterwards they reverted to being Indian team.
 
Its not easy to be South Africa cricket fan

v1yzycA.jpg
 
The two best teams have reached in WT20 Finals this year. That's for sure.
 
Indian represented teams in cricket lost 7 games in the space of 3 days (November 1st to November 3rd)

Test Series:
India lost to New Zealand

Hong Kong Sixes:
India lost to Pakistan
India lost to UAE
India lost to England
India lost to New Zealand
India lost to Oman

A Series:
India A lost to Australia A

Bad week for India it seems
 
South Africa is now 1-9 in ICC tournaments semi-finals

Absolutely pathetic record for a supposedly top cricketing nation.

Generations after generations passed but they still remain bottlers when it counts.

Forget losing the finals, they were their pants even in the semi finals. It’s atrocious really.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Credit to England, they are mostly crap but the little phase when they actually had a good white ball team they won 2 world cups just like that.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Credit to England, they are mostly crap but the little phase when they actually had a good white ball team they won 2 world cups just like that.
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True. overall records of SA were impressive back then. Always favorites in every single world cup. Gun team, gun fielders, gun pacers. Spin was the only missing element. But they had enough players to chip in.
 
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