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Who should be Pakistan's third seamer going into the future?

Ellipsism

Ellipsism

First Class Captain
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Apr 17, 2016
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Well, clearly Junaid and Wahab aren't the answers. So, who should be Pakistan's third seamer going into the future?

Personally, I'd go for one of Ehtisham or Bashir.
 
no one stands out at the moment, Sohail Khan would have been handy but clearly he is blacklisted, plus he wont make the 2019 wc regardless.

We just have to wait for someone to make a case for themselves then give them time

I hope Amad Butt can get his act togther because he has the raw ingredients
 
Are there any young, tall fast bowlers who can hit the deck hard and extract bounce from a good length ?

On these flat decks you need pacers who can do that as there's hardly any swing with these rubbish white Kookaburras.
 
i would rather play ten men than play wahab. we have abbas to try.
 
Markhor said:
Are there any young, tall fast bowlers who can hit the deck hard and extract bounce from a good length ?

On these flat decks you need pacers who can do that as there's hardly any swing with these rubbish white Kookaburras.
Click to expand...

My friend Saif Ghouri who has played for Pakistan U19 is a good fast bowler but seems to have lost somewhere in the system.Good slingy action and hits the deck hard
 
Markhor said:
Are there any young, tall fast bowlers who can hit the deck hard and extract bounce from a good length ?

On these flat decks you need pacers who can do that as there's hardly any swing with these rubbish white Kookaburras.
Click to expand...
Irfan Jr and Ehtisham perhaps?
 
Shinwari
Ruman Raees
M. Irfan
Abbass
Ehtisham
Asif

Even Mohammad Sami would have been better.
 
Rumman Raees.

The guy has the flair, great line and length, sure he's no Wahab Riaz with his pace but maybe...thankfully so.

Plus for god-knows-what-reason he's been given extremely limited chances. He should really be thrown into a full fledged series to see if what he can produce on a long term
 
I definitely think Rumman Raees, Usman Khan and Mohammad Abbas will be looked at as the new third seamer in the team. I could also see the management sticking with Junaid Khan and unfortunately Wahab Riaz. So its basically anyones guess. With PCB you never know
 
Pakistan need to play one bowling all rounder and one batting all rounder in seaming conditions backed by two specialist fast bowlers. And couple of spin all rounders.

On spinning tracks , play one genuine fast bowler , and two bowling all rounders.
Plus one specialist spinning bowler and one bowling all rounder.
 
I personally arent a big fan of shinwari, abbas is a great option for the time being,but who is this ehtisham guy?
 
If PSL is anything to go by then we have Wahab 2.0 spray gun Ghulam Mudassir to look forward to, or right-handed Sohail Tanvir in the shape of Muhammad Irfan Jr.
 
Ruman or Meeru

Both are rated by Wasim Akram of all people who's bowling knowledge I'll trust more than those idiots up at the PCB.

What do you think bro ? [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]
 
We don't need one or two. We need to create a pool for 7-8 that play on the international and A squads to create competition and if one goes down, there's one ready waiting in the line.

Irfan, Bashir, Sultan, Ghulam are the next four in line. Personally I'd play Irfan because he has the highest ceiling but any of them would be fine. Ghulam needs another year or two though.
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
Ruman or Meeru

Both are rated by Wasim Akram of all people who's bowling knowledge I'll trust more than those idiots up at the PCB.

What do you think bro ? [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]
Click to expand...
Akram's knowledge? I don't how the guy ended up an ATG, he knows very little about the capacity of players and that's proved when he continuously labels Shehzad "a very talented player".

I don't see anything to Rumman, what does he offer apart from slower balls?

He's a slightly better version of the T20 specialist Imran Khan.
 
Syed1 said:
If PSL is anything to go by then we have Wahab 2.0 spray gun Ghulam Mudassir to look forward to, or right-handed Sohail Tanvir in the shape of Muhammad Irfan Jr.
Click to expand...
I don't get the comparison between Tanvir and Irfan Jr. Apart from their actions being unorthodox what similarities do they have?

Ghulam did bowl very well on flat pitches in the Pakistan Cup, to the extent where he outbowled Sohail Khan.
 
Ellipsism said:
Akram's knowledge? I don't how the guy ended up an ATG, he knows very little about the capacity of players and that's proved when he continuously labels Shehzad "a very talented player".

I don't see anything to Rumman, what does he offer apart from slower balls?

He's a slightly better version of the T20 specialist Imran Khan.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you're on about but him rating Shehzad has nothing to do with his 'BOWLING KNOWLEDGE' and in case you've missed Shehzad plays as an opening batsman.

Waqar for all his faults, and believe me he had many as the national coach, at least made good use of bowlers like Junaid, Imran Khan Jr etc even with their massive limitations as athletes and cricketers - this is what a good coach is supposed to do and I believe he could inspire the bowlers and get good performances out of them.

Wasim essentially is an upgrade on Waqar and would be a massive massive step up as compared to someone like Azhar Mahmood who on his best day was no more than a poor man's Razzler back in the day.....

I would essentially trust people who've done stuff and come out on top in the heat of the moment than people who's best capability is to talk good during press conferences!!

something needs to change !!
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
I don't know what you're on about but him rating Shehzad has nothing to do with his 'BOWLING KNOWLEDGE' and in case you've missed Shehzad plays as an opening batsman.

Waqar for all his faults, and believe me he had many as the national coach, at least made good use of bowlers like Junaid, Imran Khan Jr etc even with their massive limitations as athletes and cricketers - this is what a good coach is supposed to do and I believe he could inspire the bowlers and get good performances out of them.

Wasim essentially is an upgrade on Waqar and would be a massive massive step up as compared to someone like Azhar Mahmood who on his best day was no more than a poor man's Razzler back in the day.....

I would essentially trust people who've done stuff and come out on top in the heat of the moment than people who's best capability is to talk good during press conferences!!

something needs to change !!
Click to expand...
Do you know what Mahmood has done as bowling coach?

He's helped with Amir's action and seam position, the shortening of the run up for Hasan Ali and a few adjustements in the bowling stride and has somewhat controlled Wahab's no ball issues and helped make sure that his front arm doesn't fall away. One only has to speak to the man to know that he possesses great knowledge about fast bowling. But alas fans expect coaches to turn mediocre cricketers into word beaters.

Cricketing ability does not equate to being a good coach.

Wasim worked with Irfan Jr for three weeks and completely ruined his flow through his action which was later fixed by Aqib. There's another case with Bilal Shah Afridi who now no longer maintains extension through the crease after a couple of weeks with Akram.
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
Ruman or Meeru

Both are rated by Wasim Akram of all people who's bowling knowledge I'll trust more than those idiots up at the PCB.

What do you think bro ? [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]
Click to expand...


Look We have many good young prospects. Some are ready and some aren't.


Mir Hamza is a left arm medium fast swing bowler.

He needs grace ball or duke with Pakistan Fc wivkets or SA or Eng or NZ seamers friendly Test wickets.

He is not suited for Odi Cricket just like Rahat & Abass etc.


Rumman Raees is also medium fast but unlike Mir Hamza he can bowl few between 134 to 140 aswell and has good yorker and slower one too. Although he is T20 specialist but based on Wahab & Junaid's current performances Rumann is certainly a much better option than either of them.


We must groom Ehtisham Sultan, Ghulam and Umari pacer within next 12 months or so. Changing Ghulam's action without any scientific input was disastrous hence he has declined abit. He should ho back to his old natural action. If he gets a BBL stinct than in Aus he can work with proper coaches in HPC's. Same with Sultan. Umari just needs proper nutrition & training. Its Mohammad Umar.


Currently my first two picks who are finished products would be


26 years old Malinga type Atif Jabbar &

21 years old Ahmed Bashir


Both are Fast Medium and both can hit the 140 kph mark.


Afraz Khoso (Larkana) & Salman Irshad (Azad Kashmir) are also good Limited overs Prospects. Both are Malinga inspired pacers. Thankfully Salman Irshad is under PCB wings.


Presently Sohail Khan should have been preferred over Junaid & Wahab for English conditions. He bowls the length needed for English conditions (2m to 6m) and his release is the best hence he can new ball swing the ball for 3 overs. Than he has good bumper, slower balls & Yorker aswell and can makeup a bowl uncannily for reverse. Can touch 140kph, has excellent attitude and can bat too. His 10 overs fitness is much better tgan Ehsan Adil & Irfan of post injury 2013 to 2017. Sohails best format is List A and dropping him for CT was terrible.


We should close doors for Rahat Ali, Umar Gul, Bilawal Bhatti & Anwar Ali.
 
Ellipsism said:
Do you know what Mahmood has done as bowling coach?

He's helped with Amir's action and seam position, the shortening of the run up for Hasan Ali and a few adjustements in the bowling stride and has somewhat controlled Wahab's no ball issues and helped make sure that his front arm doesn't fall away. One only has to speak to the man to know that he possesses great knowledge about fast bowling. But alas fans expect coaches to turn mediocre cricketers into word beaters.

Cricketing ability does not equate to being a good coach.

Wasim worked with Irfan Jr for three weeks and completely ruined his flow through his action which was later fixed by Aqib. There's another case with Bilal Shah Afridi who now no longer maintains extension through the crease after a couple of weeks with Akram.
Click to expand...

Mahmood took almost a year to fix Amir's wrist and head position plus that incomplete action and sideways jump towards the right side of the popping crease which he had during the English summer carried through to the NZ tour and for the series down under as well.

These types of blunders cost us another hammering at hands of the Aussies where the collective bowling average for Pakistan per wicket was 67.xx, a feat that was not achieved since the freaking 1960s. I understand a coach at the national level can't teach fast bowling technicalities and basics but at least give the lads a proper bowling plan to execute and follow through. All these issues should've been identified and fixed post English summer but we kept Mahmood for the sake of it and the same God Damn mistake happened last game where you could see our bowlers almost look like headless chickens when the Indians took the attack to them.

You give Amir to Wasim for a year and he'll make the ball hoop around at pace which is what Amir is capable of as he showed in the Asia cup and pre 2010 ban.

This is professional cricket and you do not have the luxury of a complete season to trail and error something and then come up with....ohh see now it's working mate !! Type of scenarios. You have to perform from day 1 and this is what is expected of a professional in such a scenario.

Akram, again for all his faults, actually have had blokes go after his bowling for a period of two decades (which trumps Mahmood's collective cricketing experience and some more) and he's been under the pump, in similar sorts of situations many many times already so there is a high chance he would use that experience when he's devising bowling plans and will give an appropriate picture to our lot.

Plus you're making as if Akram is some muck off the street who I am asking for a bowling coach. The guy was freakig hired by KKR who he led them to a IPL title and also ISLO who he again helped them win the inaugural PSL. For goodness sake he made Sami and Ifran world bearers during PSL I am pretty certain he's so much much more with Amir/Hassan/Junaid/Abbas.

Not everything is agenda driven.......
 
Amir and Hasan are given. We need someone who can compliment them, I really don't see Junaid or Wahab filling that void. Looks like we need to try our luck and pick players like Abbas, Ehsan, etc. We don't really have much of a choice at this stage.

I can see something like Amir opening with Ehsan/Abbas, with Hasan as the third seamer.
 
Ellipsism said:
Do you know what Mahmood has done as bowling coach?

He's helped with Amir's action and seam position, the shortening of the run up for Hasan Ali and a few adjustements in the bowling stride and has somewhat controlled Wahab's no ball issues and helped make sure that his front arm doesn't fall away. One only has to speak to the man to know that he possesses great knowledge about fast bowling. But alas fans expect coaches to turn mediocre cricketers into word beaters.

Cricketing ability does not equate to being a good coach.
Wasim worked with Irfan Jr for three weeks and completely ruined his flow through his action which was later fixed by Aqib. There's another case with Bilal Shah Afridi who now no longer maintains extension through the crease after a couple of weeks with Akram.
Click to expand...



Azhar Mahmood has done quite well MashaAllah. He has improved as a bowling coach massively but Amir and Hasan's bowling length was terrible yesterday. Defensive & trash.


Under Waqar Younis Junaid Khan improved massively. His pace improved massively and in 2012 He hit his peak at such a young age. It was all good until NCA medical staff who arw incompetent and poorly qualified(None with felliwship in Sports Medicine) destroyed JK knees. He had fluid accumulated in his knees and needed 4 weeks complete rest instead they got him doing rehab exercises for 3 weeks and 3 weeks later fluid accumulation doubled and injury worsened.



Aqib Javed is a great mentor & Coach provided he does not play with bowling action of any bowler any type. He is the worst bowling coach in World Cricket when it comes to changing actions.

Ghulam's Inswing is missing, his yorker is missing, his bouncer is 4-5 kph slower thanks to Aqib Javed. Hope he can go back to his old unorthodox action because he is only 20 and his action aent permanent yet.


Since you are sitting in Australia so please read how Pattinson, Cummins, Bollinger, Haris, Johnson actions were modified or fine tuned. (It's a Science). There is mo time now for Desi Totkay and Tukkay of Aqib Javed. [MENTION=81]Monsee[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION]



I hope Ehtisham is picked by ISB United. Wasim will help him learn fitness and diet thing. Wasim doesn't destroy actions like Aqib Javed. Under Wasim Amad Butt & Hussain Tallat's fitness improved massively. In 2nd last PC Amad was the best Under 21 Fast medium bowler. His form & speeds dipped after he got dropped from Pak T20 squad without even getting a game but He will bounce back. Amad need's Waqar's help wrt his Delivery stride and follow through. He and Hussain both release the ball prematurely at present while they are off balanced hence they lose atleast 5 kph. Wasim could be helpful but Azhar or Waqar could be more helpful. Ehtisham would flourish under Wasim. Whatever change we have observed in him is because of improvement in fitness. Aqib cannot ever improve a bowling action. The only bowler Aqib failed to destroy was Asif because He was dominating at Int Cricket so Aqib wasn't allowed to play with his biomechanics.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ellipsism said:
Well, clearly Junaid and Wahab aren't the answers. So, who should be Pakistan's third seamer going into the future?

Personally, I'd go for one of Ehtisham or Bashir.
Click to expand...


Ahmed Bashir Yes. Ehtisham No. Ehtisham isn't ready. Atif Jabbar is ready.


For me it should be


Wahab & Junaid out and Atif & Ahmed in.


Amir should open the bowling with Ahmed Bashir with Hasan being 3rd seamer. Atif on bench.
 
Why not try abbas as new ball specialist. Bowl 7-8 overs upfront and bowl 2 in the middle
 
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