GLORY OF '92
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Both giants of modern day batting but who would you say was the superior Test player?
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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Who was a better Test batsman, Ricky Ponting or Jacques Kallis?
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Hitman
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Ponting by a long way. Could dominate attacks, unlike Kallis who could only grind attacks.
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Aus had tracks most suited to be exploited by any home teams during Ponting's career when he made lots of runs. Aus, SA and Ind had the three best batting line up in 00s. Let's examine how they did at home and away.
Outside of Home in 00s:
- Aus scored 39 runs per wicket
- SA scored 38 runs per wicket
- Indians scored 37 runs per wicket
Aus, SA and Ind batting line up scored in same range when playing outside of home.
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At home in 00s:
- Aus 48 run per wicket
- SA 38 runs per wicket
- Ind 40 runs per wicket
Aus batsmen boosted their average in 00s by scoring a lot higher than other teams at home. They couldn't outscore other top batting sides by any reasonable margin when playing away.
Ponting 50+ average is built on same home domination, otherwise he averages 45 outside of Aus against non-minnows. Kallis averages 50+ even away and boots were not filled by simply scoring a lot at home like Ponting.
Ponting can sure dominate and there is no denying that fact. But imagine him playing for SA and averaging 45 in career. Now can we still say that he was way better than kallis?
Just arguing other side here. I will take Ponting as well, but just slightly.
Ab Fan
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Ponting had few issues -
Couldn't carry the weaker Australian team after retirement of Gilly, Mcgrath and Warne..
Failed in India poorly averaging a mere 26 there (lots of thanks to last series)..
Wasn't that good vs strongest bowling attacks. His peak phase came since early 2000s..
Anyways, I will take Ponting over Kallis but Ponting is still a bit overrated given the fact that he played for that ATG Australian side.
He might not be rated as high if played in a weaker team.
I would take Sachin in all the formats and Lara in tests over Ponting.
Couldn't carry the weaker Australian team after retirement of Gilly, Mcgrath and Warne..
Failed in India poorly averaging a mere 26 there (lots of thanks to last series)..
Wasn't that good vs strongest bowling attacks. His peak phase came since early 2000s..
Anyways, I will take Ponting over Kallis but Ponting is still a bit overrated given the fact that he played for that ATG Australian side.
He might not be rated as high if played in a weaker team.
I would take Sachin in all the formats and Lara in tests over Ponting.
Mamoon
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Ponting easily.
Kallis' batting lacked impact.
Kallis' batting lacked impact.
Nil Dhumrojal
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Punter by miles.
Haroon786
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Most non-SA fans will pick Ponting.
Ponting for me too.
Ponting for me too.
TalentSpotterPk
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Ponting of peak. Overall Kallis
Robert
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Ponting because he was more dominant.
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Ponting was the best player of fast bowling in the last 30 years. He was better than Lara,Sachin,Kallis,Gilchrist,Hayden, Dravid etc. when it came to playing pace. He was decent against spin too except in India where he was clueless for most of his career. Kallis was a top player against both pace and spin but not quite the best in either.
Ponting the superior batsman but Kallis the superior cricketer (there were very few better cricketers than Kallis in the history of the game)
Ponting the superior batsman but Kallis the superior cricketer (there were very few better cricketers than Kallis in the history of the game)
Protea Fan
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Ponting hands down....Kallis never looked half devastating as ponting eventhough he has got that legendary stats
Punter is the only player of modern era (after Brian Lara) who could challenge Sachin with his abilities
Once i really thought that he would end up wth 20,000 test runs.it wasn't crazy given ponting's form back then
Punter is the only player of modern era (after Brian Lara) who could challenge Sachin with his abilities
Once i really thought that he would end up wth 20,000 test runs.it wasn't crazy given ponting's form back then
Convict
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Ponting
JaDed
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Kallis ,can't say Ponting who had so many matches in India and failed to do much,the only series they won he wasn't in the team.
honeybadger
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Ponting, easy. But I fully expect cricinfo nerds to bring up statistics and numbers with no idea of context.
Pantani
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Performing in India isn't the be all and end all, Ponting was superb everywhere else in Asia.
The_Odd_One
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I will take Ponting but Kallis was a far better player of spin.
James
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Ponting because he was a much better matchwinner.
Hasan123
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Pointing is better
Sidilicious
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Ponting instilled more fear in the opposition team than Kallis.
Kallis was pretty effective in his own quiet way.
Will go with Punter though
Kallis was pretty effective in his own quiet way.
Will go with Punter though
Smbhayi
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for me Kallis.
TestMatch
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I think Kallis was a bigger match winner. Kallis' quiet, slow tons often stabalized things and put South Africa in a match winning position.
But cricket is about more than wins. It's also about sheer batsmanship, entertainment, flair, shot ability and shot quality. Ponting was a more skilled batsman, and could do things Kallis couldn't (except play the cut shot).
But cricket is about more than wins. It's also about sheer batsmanship, entertainment, flair, shot ability and shot quality. Ponting was a more skilled batsman, and could do things Kallis couldn't (except play the cut shot).
The_Odd_One
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Here are their averages in different countries (only include those where there is sufficient sample size)
Australia: Ponting=57, Kallis=48
SA: Ponting=47, Kallis=57
England: Ponting=42, Kallis=35
NZ: Ponting=60, Kallis=59
WI: Ponting=61, Kallis=55
India: Ponting=26, Kallis=58
SL: Ponting=48, Kallis=35
So, Ponting averaged better than Kallis everywhere except South Africa and India.
Ponting in SA was about the same as Kallis in Australia. However, at home Ponting was better than Kallis at his home. So, Ponting wins it for me.
Australia: Ponting=57, Kallis=48
SA: Ponting=47, Kallis=57
England: Ponting=42, Kallis=35
NZ: Ponting=60, Kallis=59
WI: Ponting=61, Kallis=55
India: Ponting=26, Kallis=58
SL: Ponting=48, Kallis=35
So, Ponting averaged better than Kallis everywhere except South Africa and India.
Ponting in SA was about the same as Kallis in Australia. However, at home Ponting was better than Kallis at his home. So, Ponting wins it for me.
The_Odd_One
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Here is the link for their career ratings:
http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/...ted=2122&name_selected2=0&name_selected2=2125
Interestingly, Kallis seems to have spent more time above 750 cut-off mark. So, it looks like he was more consistent than Ponting. This is especially true after 2008. Kallis still had respectable numbers from 2008 until he retired as compared to Ponting.
From 2008 to retirement:
Ponting = 55 matches, averaged 40, 8 100s
Kallis = 54 matches, averaged 50, 16 100s
Kallis scored twice the number of hundreds despite playing one less test. Ponting had an unmatched peak but Kallis is criminally underrated on this forum.
[MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION], any thoughts?
http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/...ted=2122&name_selected2=0&name_selected2=2125
Interestingly, Kallis seems to have spent more time above 750 cut-off mark. So, it looks like he was more consistent than Ponting. This is especially true after 2008. Kallis still had respectable numbers from 2008 until he retired as compared to Ponting.
From 2008 to retirement:
Ponting = 55 matches, averaged 40, 8 100s
Kallis = 54 matches, averaged 50, 16 100s
Kallis scored twice the number of hundreds despite playing one less test. Ponting had an unmatched peak but Kallis is criminally underrated on this forum.
[MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION], any thoughts?
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Kallis is surely underrated by a huge margin in PP. When posters put comment like he had no impact they don't even realize how much SA was dependent on Kallis for very long time. So many wins and draws were due to Kallis.
Karachi 2007 - SA won because Kallis scored 155 and 100* in first and second inning.
Cape Town 2005 against Eng - Kallis scored 149 and 66 in first and second inning to win the test.
Durban 2013 - India had put 330-340 runs, In response Sa had to out a big score. kallis lead the responce by putting 115 runs
Durban 2002 against Pakistan - Kallis scored 105 to win math when second highest score from either side was 56.
2000 in Kandy - SA was behind by 50 odd runs when starting 2nd inning. SA got a lead of 170 odd runs and won the test. Kallis made 87 to stretch the lead to 170 odd runs.
2011 in Capetown against India - SRT had petty much won the test and series for India in SA. Kallis stood between India win and draw. Kallis scored 161 & 109 to draw the test to save series for SA. Only one more batsman from SA crossed 50 with 59 runs in either inning.
2012 in Brisbane -Match was saved by pretty much Kallis scoring highest from SA in both innings( 147 & 49).
...
I don't want to keep listing, but you get he gist. Kallis not having impact is absolutely wrong statement. Kallis had a huge impact. Kallis appear with consistent high rating point because he was far more consistent than Ponting.
Kallis is getting underrated because he isn't from the legendary Aussie team. Yes ponting had more skills with the bat but it doesn't matter as long as u perform. Ponting had the better peak but Kallis was consistent. It is very close comparison, and people who r saying it's not close clearly dont know what they are talking about or are just biased from watching ponting play some amazing innings
TalentSpotterPk
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You are Right.
soso_killer
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no, Kallis is highly rated here. We can not play the "SA players are underrated" card every time a foreign player is rated above ours.
Attacking players are always rated highly rightly or wrongly.
I have no qualms who is regarded as better, however there's no way Ponting was "far and away better" i refute that.
The_Odd_One
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Ponting also played in a much better batting line-up as compared to Kallis. Before Smith, SA was completely dependent on Kallis.
kingusama92
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Ponting shouldn't be blamed for playing in an ATG great side. He was just as much of an ATG as any of his teammates.
Plus, he was past his prime by the time those three left. A prime Punter could have carried a weaker Australian side in my opinion.
Besides India, he did well in every other country. Lara only averaged 33 in India plus he was middling in NZ (36 avg.).
sensible-indian-fan
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Ponting > Kallis
But if we dig in, I wouldn't be surprised if Kallis turns out to be the biggest impact batsman of all time (or the top 3). Please note impact does NOT mean flawless record.
Ponting's impact post his 2003-2007 period was minimal. What he was in that period was stuff of legends.
Kallis's impact post 2000 was incredible.
This is coming from a guy who didn't rate Kallis big time in the past. With a better understandig of the game, my views are changing.
But if we dig in, I wouldn't be surprised if Kallis turns out to be the biggest impact batsman of all time (or the top 3). Please note impact does NOT mean flawless record.
Ponting's impact post his 2003-2007 period was minimal. What he was in that period was stuff of legends.
Kallis's impact post 2000 was incredible.
This is coming from a guy who didn't rate Kallis big time in the past. With a better understandig of the game, my views are changing.
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The_Odd_One
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In his last 55 tests when Australia was declining, Ponting failed to carry the burden of his team's batting. He averaged just 40. Kallis on the other hand averaged 50 even in his twilight years. Heck, even the last test that he played, he was the highest scorer against a very strong Indian team and prevented a 2-0 series loss.
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I myself picked Ponting over Kallis so that's not the issue. Issue comes with comments like Kallis and low impact. Kallis was anything, but low impact.
Justcrazy
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It has to be Pointing.
Hasan123
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[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] see for yourself some rate Kallis higher than Punter not many though.
Snatch
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When will people see that at the level of the top 5 batsmen since the mid90s, Ponting, Lara, Tendulkar, Sanga & Kallis, it comes down the personal preference. They all have similar records.
They also all have their pros. Sanga the best average, Tendulkar the longevity & runs, Ponting & Lara, the domination & Kallis the best conversion & toughest to dislodge.
I think Ponting over Kallis myself, but I could see a reasonable argument for Kallis.
They also all have their pros. Sanga the best average, Tendulkar the longevity & runs, Ponting & Lara, the domination & Kallis the best conversion & toughest to dislodge.
I think Ponting over Kallis myself, but I could see a reasonable argument for Kallis.
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Hitman
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Yea, I've read this thread before. I think a lot of fans (which includes a lot of Indian fans) don't particularly have a high opinion on Ponting simply because of the way he conducted himself on the field, which was disgraceful at times to be honest. Kallis on the other hand was a cool customer who barely lost his cool.
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Ab Fan
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Of course not taking his due but Ponting for most part of his career got the cushion of playing in a strong team which had ATGs like McGrath, Warne ,Gilly and great players like Hayden, Martin and Gillispie.Sachin and Lara didn't had such luxury.
Ponting record in India was poor because he struggled badly vs Harbhajan. The records are poor after a good sample.Lara played few games and being one of the finest player of spin, he would have done better had he played more games.
Of course, Ponting ability to turn the game on his head and to dominate opposition can't be taken away and hence I consider him at par with Kallis, Dravid and Sangakkara among modern ATGs.
