Who will be the Ashes casualties for England this time around?

[BunnyRabbit]

It's almost been a trend for England barring 2010-11 Ashes. Every time they lose Ashes on Australian soil, committees are formed for reviews and some players are dropped, some careers are ended. Some members of the management get sacked.
2006-07 saw Ashley Giles, Geraint Jones and Sajid Mahmood's careers ending.
2013-14 saw KP's illustrious career being ended abruptly. Trott disintegrated mentally so much he was never the same again. Graeme Swann retired midway. Tremlett, Prior, Carberry were phased out.
2017-18 ashes saw Jake Ball, Stoneman and Moeen Ali's test career's taking a hit.

So with another Ashes gone with continuous abysmal show by England, what's going to happen this time around?

My predictions,

1.Root will resign from captaincy.
2.Buttler will be dropped.
3.One of Broad or Anderson might retire soon.
4.Leach,Hameed,Burns all might lose their places.

 

[Rana]

Joe Burns
Haseeb Hameed
Joss Butler

Ben Stokes the number 5

 

[Firebat]

This has not just been a loss, it's been a mauling. A 3rd Test being the must-win to stay in the series, yet they lose it in 2 days and half a session.

 

[realitygaf]

You have to ask the following questions

- why was buttler not asked to play his natural aggressive game like Head
- why was broad dropped for every green pacy pitch
- why was leach picked for every green pacy pitch
- why wasn’t the batting order shuffled around to create a more aggressive response
- why were batsmen fishing outside off stump in tests when they don’t in t20 even

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Chris Silverwood
Hameed
Burns
Buttler
Bairstow
Broad ( will get a home farewell)
Jimmy (will get a home farewell)

Chris Woakes will remain but his stock has went down heavily as he cant play overseas.

Ollie Pope will remain in the periphery but needs to quickly show he can do it.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Joe Burns
Haseeb Hameed
Joss Butler

Ben Stokes the number 5

It's Rory burns. Joe burns is Australian.
Don't think Stokes would be dumped. He still remains the golden goose for England.

 

[Kaddy]

Zak Crawley
So, this loser who looked like a tiger against another loser Naseem Shah, is actually a headless chicken in front of any decent bowling attack.

 

[realitygaf]

Zak Crawley
So, this loser who looked like a tiger against another loser Naseem Shah, is actually a headless chicken in front of any decent bowling attack.

Why didn’t the other Pakistani bowlers get him out

 

[Manunited18]

Not many casualties. These are the best players available in England domestic. Only consolation is they will face the likes of Windies and Sri Lanka next year so the younger players can build confidence.

 

[realitygaf]

Just ask the t20 side to play test cricket and tone down aerial shots

 

[Justcrazy]

Making big changes will not do any good.

England have to rethink the way they play Test , Test has to be played as Test. Foakes has to be permanent WK in Tests , Need to get in at least 2 specialist spinners in the squad.

 

[ElRaja]

burns is englands second highest run scorer after root this season, for all his quirks he will play a few good innings in england.

hameed, buttler and crawley however are unlikely to survive.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

This has not just been a loss, it's been a mauling. A 3rd Test being the must-win to stay in the series, yet they lose it in 2 days and half a session.

It's been the same case since 2003 apart from that 2010-11 series.

 

[realitygaf]

I’m still confused why buttler cannot just play his natural game instead of tuk tuk

 

[BunnyRabbit]

You have to ask the following questions

- why was buttler not asked to play his natural aggressive game like Head
- why was broad dropped for every green pacy pitch
- why was leach picked for every green pacy pitch
- why wasn’t the batting order shuffled around to create a more aggressive response
- why were batsmen fishing outside off stump in tests when they don’t in t20 even

I don't think Buttler has what it takes to succeed in tests. By succeeding, I mean replicating his brilliance from LOIs. Atleast average 40.
Think the micromanagement takes away the flair and puts undue pressure on players. Bess is a good spinner but earlier this year in India, they dropped him for the second test for one wayward spell in a match they won where he took a 4fer or 5fer.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Chris Silverwood
Hameed
Burns
Buttler
Bairstow
Broad ( will get a home farewell)
Jimmy (will get a home farewell)

Chris Woakes will remain but his stock has went down heavily as he cant play overseas.

Ollie Pope will remain in the periphery but needs to quickly show he can do it.

Think Silverwood has been one of the biggest culprits. He has literally added nothing to the test team that Bayliss handed over to him(which wasn't among the best in the first place either). If anything, it's declined a bit.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

burns is englands second highest run scorer after root this season, for all his quirks he will play a few good innings in england.

hameed, buttler and crawley however are unlikely to survive.

Think Robson will come back at the top of the order.

 

[Ab Fan]

England need atleast 4-5 high quality South African exports if they want to become one of the top test side. The changes should be as below :-

1. SA Export
2. SA Export
3. David Malan
4. Joe Root
5. Ben Stokes
6. SA Export
7. SA Export (wkt)
8. Robinson
9. Wood/Archer
10. Spinner
11. Anderson

Broad should retire too.

 

[The_KING]

Hameed - Awful batsman who is mentally weak.
Butler - Not test standard.
Bairstow - Not test standard.
Leach - England might as well bring back Moeen Ali, if this Leach lad is the best spinner they have.
Broad - Only one of Anderson or Broad should play. I think Anderson is still good enough to play for another season or two, despite his age. I think Broad is finished and should simply retire.

 

[Vocare Ad Regnum]

Buttler averages more than anyone barring Stokes and Root.
Should stick with him.

 

[sam_ahm]

Their Test Status? Esp after the drubbing in India as well. Home series loss as well.

If this were Bangladesh, then entire world would have felt their test status needs to be stripped.

 

[sweep_shot]

Apart from Root, Butler, and Stokes, every single batter should be dropped (including Bairstow).

Bowlers are probably fine.

 

[James]

Chris Silverwood
Hameed
Burns
Buttler
Bairstow
Broad ( will get a home farewell)
Jimmy (will get a home farewell)

Chris Woakes will remain but his stock has went down heavily as he cant play overseas.

Ollie Pope will remain in the periphery but needs to quickly show he can do it.

Agree with all of these.

Also Root to be batter only and replaced by Stokes in the captaincy role.

 

[James]

It's been the same case since 2003 apart from that 2010-11 series.

I disagree… this team is worse because it rarely even scores 200 as a batting unit.

Most of the past England teams to tour Australia in the window you mention were outgunned with bat and ball in the end; but the batters could still club in together and put up 300-400 regularly, even 500 on occasion, and there were individual success stories (big hundreds, five wicket hauls) to speak of, some silver linings to take home and forward into the future — even when England lost: Vaughan, KP, Collingwood, Cook, Hoggard, Panesar, Broad, Anderson, etc.

This however has been the worst England tour of them all — absolutely abject, desperately poor, and hardly a positive on any level to speak of.

 

[Artaxerxes]

IPL and too much focus on white ball cricket in England are the reasons for England’s loss.ECB has pushed test cricket to margins for the last 5 years.The plan was to promote T20 at the expense of test cricket and it worked.

 

[Ab Fan]

Apart from Root, Butler, and Stokes, every single batter should be dropped (including Bairstow).

Bowlers are probably fine.

Buttler should be dropped as well.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Seeing Stokes' performance with bat and ball over the last few weeks don't exactly inspire much confidence in his leadership credentials, he didn't step up when the team needed a fighter to support Root and to a lesser extent Malan.

I'd go left-field and appoint Broad as interim captain till the 2023 Ashes series at home, and have a mass clearout in that team. The cupboard for top-order batsmen is empty but they'll have to make do.

My XI for the first Test in the Caribbean should look as follows:

Ben Duckett
James Vince
Dawid Malan
Joe Root
Ben Stokes
Dan Lawrence
Ben Foakes (w)
Mark Wood
Matt Parkinson
Saqib Mahmood
Stuart Broad (c)

I'll rest Anderson from the tour to the West Indies and give him a home farewell in the summer against New Zealand.

 

[sindhiboy]

This should be it for burns, pope could comeback in the future.
There are plenty of options available, its just the selectors have done a terrible job.

Crawley and Hameed average 31 in fc cricket and didn't deserve do many chances.

Malan will open most likely from now on.
For the rest of this series, they could the bbl players , Vince Duckett, Joe Clarke have decent fc averages


For the next series, they should try Tom Haines, Jake Libby, Josh Bohannon and James Bracey in the top 3.

Batting order for the next series:
Jake Libby/Tom Haines
Dawid Malan
Josh Bohannon/ James Bracey
Root
Stokes
Dan Lawrence
Foakes

 

[happydavy]

Very surprising performance considering they tour Australia so often. Butler has been a huge disappointment, be could still have the excuse that its his first Australian tour, but i am very disappointed with Stokes and Bairstow, who have previously given some good performances in Australia. Not once in 3 matches did they try to change the approach - agressive batting/slogging, nothing whatsoever.

 

[Titan24]

Seeing Stokes' performance with bat and ball over the last few weeks don't exactly inspire much confidence in his leadership credentials, he didn't step up when the team needed a fighter to support Root and to a lesser extent Malan.

I'd go left-field and appoint Broad as interim captain till the 2023 Ashes series at home, and have a mass clearout in that team. The cupboard for top-order batsmen is empty but they'll have to make do.

My XI for the first Test in the Caribbean should look as follows:

Ben Duckett
James Vince
Dawid Malan
Joe Root
Ben Stokes
Dan Lawrence
Ben Foakes (w)
Mark Wood
Matt Parkinson
Saqib Mahmood
Stuart Broad (c)

I'll rest Anderson from the tour to the West Indies and give him a home farewell in the summer against New Zealand.

Solid XI out of the available options. Despite Stokes' struggles, if he is mentally up for it I will give captaincy to him.

I will keep Pope atleast in the squad considering how good he is in FC cricket for his age. However, I think he has been managed poorly as 22 tests around no 6 are too many for someone who is touted as one for the future, should have been promoted up the order earlier.

Livingstone should be in the squad as well, can be a decent no 6 and a handy fifth bowling option.

David Payne should be added to the squad (Tall, quick left arm pacer with decent FC record) to give that extra variety. I will add Brydon Carse as well (Tall right arm pacer who can go mid to high 140s koh). Both have been in the radar and Carson even debuted against Pak in ODIs.

Not a fan of leggies in test cricket unless they are extremely accurate but, then Engand does not have many extraordinary spin bowling options.

 

[Robert]

I’m still confused why buttler cannot just play his natural game instead of tuk tuk

Because it doesn’t work against the red ball delivered by good bowlers. He was never test class as a batsman. Two centuries in seventy tests is a poor return.

It answer to the OP it is time for a clear-out:

Giles
Silverwood
Root as skipper
Buttler
Bairstow
Broad
Anderson

The fast bowling sticks are decent if they can get on the park. The problem is that the system does not produce test batters. They are good for 25 or 50 over white ball slogs but cannot cope with well directed red ball quick stuff or spin on turners.

It will take a long time before this changes.

 

[James]

Because it doesn’t work against the red ball delivered by good bowlers. He was never test class as a batsman. Two centuries in seventy tests is a poor return.

It answer to the OP it is time for a clear-out:

Giles
Silverwood
Root as skipper
Buttler
Bairstow
Broad
Anderson

The fast bowling sticks are decent if they can get on the park. The problem is that the system does not produce test batters. They are good for 25 or 50 over white ball slogs but cannot cope with well directed red ball quick stuff or spin on turners.

It will take a long time before this changes.

I agree.

I still think we can come back in Test cricket and be a decent side again, but I am already braced for 3-4 years of further losses, embarrassments and misery whilst we transition, experiment and rebuild along the way.

We could go on another journey from rock bottom to top of the world, from 99 to 05, if the right decisions are made.

 

[Seen Sheen]

Because it doesn’t work against the red ball delivered by good bowlers. He was never test class as a batsman. Two centuries in seventy tests is a poor return.

It answer to the OP it is time for a clear-out:

Giles
Silverwood
Root as skipper
Buttler
Bairstow
Broad
Anderson

The fast bowling sticks are decent if they can get on the park. The problem is that the system does not produce test batters. They are good for 25 or 50 over white ball slogs but cannot cope with well directed red ball quick stuff or spin on turners.

It will take a long time before this changes.

To be honest, had Azhar Ali got his tactics right at Old Trafford last year, you would already have had Foakes playing against India and this series. Diabolical captaincy and tactics let Buttler off the hook and allowed to him to resurrect his career which basically gave false hopes to the management and allowed them to dwell on 'game-changing' potential for too long. I was cringing that we allowed Buttler (and Woakes and later in the series Crawley ) of all people to flourish and win a game which we should never have lost. But Pakistan's loss ultimately became English cricket's loss as well!

 

[Ahmed216]

Any1 not named root or robinson should go

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I agree.

I still think we can come back in Test cricket and be a decent side again, but I am already braced for 3-4 years of further losses, embarrassments and misery whilst we transition, experiment and rebuild along the way.

We could go on another journey from rock bottom to top of the world, from 99 to 05, if the right decisions are made.

Think England will continue to be a good side at home in Tests. The India they faced earlier is probably the best Indian test team in last 10 years.

 

[Markhor]

ECB should ask the Master of disasterous Oz tour reports to help out

More seriously, you guys are just shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic - bringing XYZ for ABC won't help. Selections are not the issue. England's selectors have tried every approach from picking proven domestic runscorers to picking youngsters on potential, and neither has worked.

The biggest casualty must be the current structure of County Cricket.

There's too many FC matches in April, May and September when the Dukes ball hoops around corners making it very difficult for batsmen to occupy the crease for long periods.

A 75-80mph seamer dobs it on a length and let conditions do the work. Such conditions don't encourage genuine quicks or spinners, so young English batsmen are simply not prepared for the variety of conditions and bowlers in Test cricket.

 

[Robert]

To be honest, had Azhar Ali got his tactics right at Old Trafford last year, you would already have had Foakes playing against India and this series. Diabolical captaincy and tactics let Buttler off the hook and allowed to him to resurrect his career which basically gave false hopes to the management and allowed them to dwell on 'game-changing' potential for too long. I was cringing that we allowed Buttler (and Woakes and later in the series Crawley ) of all people to flourish and win a game which we should never have lost. But Pakistan's loss ultimately became English cricket's loss as well!

Yeah, good points, that 150 by Buttler lent him an extra two years, Strauss and Cook were cheering about it on telly, "Gives England a new dimension" they said. "Foakes is too flash" they said, "Buttler gets the job done".

Standard English distrust of extreme ability.

 

[Technics 1210]

Hameed. I hope this guy is dropped. He was most certainly not included based on his stats or technique, but because ECB felt they had to respond to Azeem’s debacle by including a token Asian player.

 

[Marathonrunner]

Hameed. I hope this guy is dropped. He was most certainly not included based on his stats or technique, but because ECB felt they had to respond to Azeem’s debacle by including a token Asian player.

Truly agree with you . Had it not been Racism scandal he would have been dropped . Such a poor cricketer . Eng wanted to be in good books. They should now drop him for sure .

 

[James]

<b>Cricket Country — Ashes 2021: Ricky Ponting Slams England After Their Embarrassing Defeat At MCG; Calls Visitor's Planning, Thoughts and Structures Wrong.</b>

<I>England had left out the experienced pace duo of Stuart Broad and James Anderson from the first Test squad.</I>

Melbourne: Former Australia captain Ricky Ponting on Tuesday criticised England for their poor planning, thoughts and structures, saying it has “come back to bite them” after the visitors lost the Ashes following an embarrassing defeat in the third Test here.

Joe Root’s men were the fastest to surrender the Urn after they were skittled out for a meagre 68 on day 3 of the third Test to lose the match by an innings and 14 runs. England had lost the first two Tests by nine wickets and 275 runs at Brisbane and Adelaide respectively.

England had left out the experienced pace duo of Stuart Broad and James Anderson from the first Test squad. Anderson was not selected to keep him for ready for the day-night second Test in Adelaide, while left-arm spinner Jack Leach was picked over Broad for the just-concluded match.

“They’ve out-thought themselves with their selections for Brisbane, looking forward to Adelaide and then looking forward to the MCG,” Ponting told Channel Seven.

“Pick your best team from the start and then see how far that group can take you. The fact that Anderson and Broad didn’t play in Brisbane is staggering.”

Ponting also slammed Root’s decision to bat first on a green pitch in overcast conditions in Brisbane. “The fact that Joe Root didn’t bowl first in Brisbane was staggering. The fact that Mark Wood didn’t play in Adelaide was staggering. He looked like one of the most likely bowlers up in Brisbane,” he said.

In the Brisbane Test, England had picked the pace trio of Mark Wood, Chris Woakes and Ollie Robinson alongside Ben Stokes, who returned to action since March after being away from the game due to injuries and mental health. But England decided to rest Wood for the Adelaide Test although he looked in good rhythm.

“All their planning, their thoughts and their structures have just been completely wrong, and it’s come back to bite them,” Ponting said.

“There’s no good looking forward from Brisbane if you’re going to be one or two nil down. And that’s what it was: they planned for Melbourne already being two-nil down, they’ve come here and been pantsed again. So, they’ve got some really, really deep thinking to do.”