Who would you choose between Allan Border, Steve Waugh and Javed Miandad for a Test XI?

[Harsh Thakor]

Even a whisker may not separate the likes of Border,Javed and Steve Waugh.All were the ultimate stalwarts in a crisis displaying the coolness of an iceberg and the grit of a soldier.Even if not the best technicians they mastered bad wickets better than contemporary greats.


Border was statistically the best having the best batting average of his time overseas and average against the best team of his day,West Indies.He also led his team to the mantle or verge of becoming the world champions by moulding talented individuals into a nucleus.No batsmen championed a losing cause better than Border.Steve Waugh in the 2nd half of his career had a batting average on par with Lara,Dravid or Tendulkar His batting and captaincy played a major role in Australia reaching world champion status becoming close to the best test team ever .He scored at a brisker rate than Border and had significantly better record in games won.In that respect he overshadowed even Tendulkar or Lara.Miandad boasts of the best batting average but did not gave as good a record as Waigh or Border overseas.Statistically he does not match the batting records of Waugh in winning causes or Border overseas but morally he intimidated oponents more than anyone.Javed had an element of genbius in his batting with his pull shot and other subtle innovations.At his best in the end of the 1980's he was the best batsmen in the world which arguably Bordr and Waugh were never and could blend defence and agression in a more threatening manner to opponents than either of them.However he was relatively unsuccessful as a captain.


So what is my final choice?Sorry if biased but if disqualifying criteria of captaincy I would plump for Miandad because he niggled opponents more than anyone.To save a test Border or Waugh were better propositions.Still Miandad posessed the vital element of agression more and natural skill and was by the slenderest of margins more the thorn in the flesh for opponents.Miandad was from 1983 to 1989 the best batsmen in the world.On stats Border may win from Waugh but morally Miandad wins even if by less than a whisker.Border was probably the better batsmen but still I would prefer Javed in a test World XI.

BEST NO.5 BATSMEN IN TESTS (QUAL: 3000 RUNS)
Batsman Innings Runs Average 100s/ 50s
Steve Waugh 142 6754 56.28 24/ 29
Graham Thorpe 78 3373 56.21 10/ 18
Michael Clarke 68 3416 56.00 11/ 16
Andy Flower 82 3788 54.89 9/ 22
Mohammad Yousuf 78 3774 53.15 13/ 19
Shivnarine Chanderpaul 100 4409 52.48 11/ 25
Allan Border 70 3071 52.05 9/ 15
Mohammad Azharuddin 94 4346 48.83 16/ 13


BEST TEST BATSMEN BETWEEN JAN 1 1993 AND JAN 6 2004
Batsman Tests Runs Average 100s/ 50s
Sachin Tendulkar 91 8180 61.50 28/ 33
Rahul Dravid 75 6546 57.42 16/ 32
Steve Waugh 122 8761 56.88 29/ 37
Ricky Ponting 75 5821 55.97 20/ 21
Brian Lara 97 8873 53.77 24/ 40


BEST TEST BATSMEN BETWEEN 1983 AND 1989 (QUAL: 3000 RUNS)
Batsman Tests Runs Average 100s/ 50s
Javed Miandad 53 4247 61.55 14/ 16
Allan Border 62 5168 60.09 14/ 27
Dilip Vengsarkar 51 3452 52.30 11/ 16
Gordon Greenidge 60 4257 48.37 12/ 15
Richie Richardson 45 3320 48.11 10/ 13
Martin Crowe 42 3107 47.80 10/ 11
Sunil Gavaskar 44 3038 46.03 9/ 14
Viv Richards 61 3720 45.92 11/ 20

 

[MMHS]

Border - you’ll hardly read me answering with one word; this is one such rare cases.

 

[Rahul1]

Steve Waugh.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Border - you’ll hardly read me answering with one word; this is one such rare cases.

On stats Border an inevitability.But is that only criteria?Read what Viv Richards says about Javed who ranks him abreast Greg Chappell and Gavaskar.Border was arguably better but still Javed could turn games more.Miandad was the best batsmen in the world for a period unlike Steve or Border.Alos anlyze run rate,where even Waugh may score over Border.

 

[AZulfi]

Javed Miandad for his sheer grit and determination and his ability to bat well under pressure. He could nudge the ball around and into gaps all day long + play big shots when needed

I know we are talking about tests here but Miandad was a better player than both Border and Steve Waugh because unlike the other two he excelled in both test and limited overs formats

My 2 cents..

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Javed Miandad for his sheer grit and determination and his ability to bat well under pressure. He could nudge the ball around and into gaps all day long + play big shots when needed

I know we are talking about tests here but Miandad was a better player than both Border and Steve Waugh because unlike the other two he excelled in both test and limited overs formats

My 2 cents..

I share your view point.Good analysis.Did you like mine?

 

[MMHS]

On stats Border an inevitability.But is that only criteria?Read what Viv Richards says about Javed who ranks him abreast Greg Chappell and Gavaskar.Border was arguably better but still Javed could turn games more.Miandad was the best batsmen in the world for a period unlike Steve or Border.Alos anlyze run rate,where even Waugh may score over Border.

Not sure if Viv was Test specific here - Javed indeed was the best ODI player of his time after Viv & Zaheer while both AB & Sunny were relatively poor in that format.

My point wasn’t on stats - Border was among the best white batsmen when it comes to play spin, being Aussie he was outstanding against hostile pace & bounce (I am sure you know about that 1983-84 WIN tour of AUS); and he was brilliant against moving ball.

Both were outstanding pressure players, but AB was far more accomplished as all-round Test batsman.

 

[AZulfi]

I share your view point.Good analysis.Did you like mine?

Thanks. Great analysis and hard work as always. Thoroughly enjoyed reading it

Have always been a big fan of Viv, Imran and Miandad

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Not sure if Viv was Test specific here - Javed indeed was the best ODI player of his time after Viv & Zaheer while both AB & Sunny were relatively poor in that format.

My point wasn’t on stats - Border was among the best white batsmen when it comes to play spin, being Aussie he was outstanding against hostile pace & bounce (I am sure you know about that 1983-84 WIN tour of AUS); and he was brilliant against moving ball.

Both were outstanding pressure players, but AB was far more accomplished as all-round Test batsman.

Totally agree but I feel Border could be ultra-defensive and lacked the flair of Javed to execute strokes.Javed has a better record in test wins and a better scoring rate.Remember how he played Marshal and co. in 1988.True not so prolific in Australia or as prolific as Border against West Indies but slightly better in peak era.

 

[Buffet]

Border.

Many Aus fans rate him alongside Greg, and Ponting as the second best Aus batsman after Bradman.

 

[MMHS]

Totally agree but I feel Border could be ultra-defensive and lacked the flair of Javed to execute strokes.Javed has a better record in test wins and a better scoring rate.Remember how he played Marshal and co. in 1988.True not so prolific in Australia or as prolific as Border against West Indies but slightly better in peak era.

Actually, Marshall didn’t play at Georgetown (1st Test) of that 1988 series. I think, Marshall admired Vengsarkar as the batsman who faced him best on 1980s.

Border was often forced to be ultra defensive, because his peak 4-5 years were when AUS were facing their lowest dip in cricket for last Century. He had to lead a new team with inexperienced batsmen. Even in 1981 Ashes, British media puff’s it as much as possible to glorify Brearley & Botham, but Aussies were without Greg and AB led that series with an average of 60; other batsmen were Kent, Yellop, Dyson, Hughes, Wood & Trevor Chappel - none crossed even 30. From 1983 to 1987-88, almost a loan wolf and he had to play out time for most Tests, even against IND in 1986; but in few games where his team competed, he was dominant. Take 1985 Ashes - AUS comprehensively lost 3-1 (should have been bigger loss), but the one Test they won at Lord’s, AB made 196 at 60+ SR, that time.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Actually, Marshall didn’t play at Georgetown (1st Test) of that 1988 series. I think, Marshall admired Vengsarkar as the batsman who faced him best on 1980s.

Border was often forced to be ultra defensive, because his peak 4-5 years were when AUS were facing their lowest dip in cricket for last Century. He had to lead a new team with inexperienced batsmen. Even in 1981 Ashes, British media puff’s it as much as possible to glorify Brearley & Botham, but Aussies were without Greg and AB led that series with an average of 60; other batsmen were Kent, Yellop, Dyson, Hughes, Wood & Trevor Chappel - none crossed even 30. From 1983 to 1987-88, almost a loan wolf and he had to play out time for most Tests, even against IND in 1986; but in few games where his team competed, he was dominant. Take 1985 Ashes - AUS comprehensively lost 3-1 (should have been bigger loss), but the one Test they won at Lord’s, AB made 196 at 60+ SR, that time.

great analysis.good point on Vengsarkar,but mainly he scored them on flat Indian pitches unlike Border.Leave stats and remember that even the great Dennis Lillee ranked Javed amongst the top 6 batsmen he ever bowled to.Miandad hardly played much in the Carribean at his peak.You win your point v West Indies statistically but Marshall rated Javed very highly and so did Mike Holding.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Border.

Many Aus fans rate him alongside Greg, and Ponting as the second best Aus batsman after Bradman.

Many rate Javed the best of all Pakistani batsmen.Lillee rates him only behind,Viv,Sobers,Gower,Graeme Pollock and Greg Chapell amongst batsmen he has bowled to which is remarkable.Viv rates Miandad with Gavaskar and Greg Chappell as the best batsmen of his time.Hadlee too rates Javed close to the top.

 

[MMHS]

great analysis.good point on Vengsarkar,but mainly he scored them on flat Indian pitches unlike Border.Leave stats and remember that even the great Dennis Lillee ranked Javed amongst the top 6 batsmen he ever bowled to.Miandad hardly played much in the Carribean at his peak.You win your point v West Indies statistically but Marshall rated Javed very highly and so did Mike Holding.

No doubt, Javed is the best ever PAK batsman and he was extremely effective I would say; one of my all time favourites. But, as a batsman I still would take AB at 5 for my Test team.

Regarding admiration by peers, one thing I have noticed that great bowlers admire stroke makers more, rather than batsmen who can stay long - for this, hardly anyone recalls Boycott, but he was a true master class of batting technique. May be because bowlers like DK, Marshall or Holding were not bothered about how gutsy you are rather how much you can hurt them stroke by stroke. In that regard, Javed indeed will outscore AB in reputation because he was overall better player (in combined cricket), and he had more shots. AB’s best days were used up to protect AUS, which won’t have touched great bowlers much.

Also, you have to remember another factor here - AB was always behind the shadow of the best ever Aussie batsman to me (since WW2 at least), Greg Chappel; therefore most people went stratight to comparison - if AB was good enough to replace Greg; and simply he wasn’t (no one is or was, to be honest). Long back, when we used to follow cricket on ABC radio, often I heard former Aussies discussing what Greg would have done in a given situation - that was a benchmark almost impossible to match for anyone. Greg was ahead with everything, even sheer elegance you must be forced to have a second look when he was in middle; Border was effective but hardly eye catching.

Javed actually created own legacy and he had his own way of doing things - a rebellion of batting, who was a sort of trend setter; many of modern improvised shots were actually introduced by Javed and he successfully transferred his ODI skills to Test cricket; but on pure batting merit, you have to give it to AB in Test.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

No doubt, Javed is the best ever PAK batsman and he was extremely effective I would say; one of my all time favourites. But, as a batsman I still would take AB at 5 for my Test team.

Regarding admiration by peers, one thing I have noticed that great bowlers admire stroke makers more, rather than batsmen who can stay long - for this, hardly anyone recalls Boycott, but he was a true master class of batting technique. May be because bowlers like DK, Marshall or Holding were not bothered about how gutsy you are rather how much you can hurt them stroke by stroke. In that regard, Javed indeed will outscore AB in reputation because he was overall better player (in combined cricket), and he had more shots. AB’s best days were used up to protect AUS, which won’t have touched great bowlers much.

Also, you have to remember another factor here - AB was always behind the shadow of the best ever Aussie batsman to me (since WW2 at least), Greg Chappel; therefore most people went stratight to comparison - if AB was good enough to replace Greg; and simply he wasn’t (no one is or was, to be honest). Long back, when we used to follow cricket on ABC radio, often I heard former Aussies discussing what Greg would have done in a given situation - that was a benchmark almost impossible to match for anyone. Greg was ahead with everything, even sheer elegance you must be forced to have a second look when he was in middle; Border was effective but hardly eye catching.

Javed actually created own legacy and he had his own way of doing things - a rebellion of batting, who was a sort of trend setter; many of modern improvised shots were actually introduced by Javed and he successfully transferred his ODI skills to Test cricket; but on pure batting merit, you have to give it to AB in Test.

Great analysis, even if I differ.Border the better test batsmen,but I would yet have Javed because of his more competitive attitude out there in the middle.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Nome of the makes even my 3rd choice XI.

With all due respect of course.

 

[Buffet]

Border.

Many Aus fans rate him alongside Greg, and Ponting as the second best Aus batsman after Bradman.

Many rate Javed the best of all Pakistani batsmen.

Many rate Kapil as the best Indian bowler and that won't make him better than Holding despite Holding not being the best pacer from WI. Not comparing named players here, but you get the point.

Being best in bowling will be nice thing to say, but being the best in batting in Pakistan is not going to be a great point when comparing best of Aus batsmen.

 

[Pete Rose]

Border or Miandad. Steve Waugh was a late bloomer. He had a relatively torrid time against the better teams when he first started. Plus his stats are greatly padded by playing an abject England from 1994 till his retirement

 

[AZulfi]

Many rate Kapil as the best Indian bowler and that won't make him better than Holding despite Holding not being the best pacer from WI. Not comparing named players here, but you get the point.

Being best in bowling will be nice thing to say, but being the best in batting in Pakistan is not going to be a great point when comparing best of Aus batsmen.

Again that might be your opinion but that's not the opinion of greats such as Viv, Gavaskar, Botham, Michael Holding, Greg & Ian Chappell, Graeme Pollock and many others who all rated Miandad very highly. Viv had an aura at the wicket so did Miandad. As long as he was at the wicket you knew that the game was not lost. Border never had that kind of aura. He was more a run accumulator like Gavaskar and Boycott. Miandad had flair and the ability to improvise and was often talked about as the best batsman in the world esp. when Viv was struggling with the bat in the mid-late 80s.

 

[Hasan123]

Border.

 

[Buffet]

Again that might be your opinion but that's not the opinion of greats such as Viv, Gavaskar, Botham, Michael Holding, Greg & Ian Chappell, Graeme Pollock and many others who all rated Miandad very highly. Viv had an aura at the wicket so did Miandad. As long as he was at the wicket you knew that the game was not lost. Border never had that kind of aura. He was more a run accumulator like Gavaskar and Boycott. Miandad had flair and the ability to improvise and was often talked about as the best batsman in the world esp. when Viv was struggling with the bat in the mid-late 80s.

You missed the point of my post.

You can surely make a case for Javed being better than Border, but not by using that he is the best Pakistani batsman when comparing against the best batsmen from Aus. Collective quality of batsmen produced by Aus and Pakistan are not comparable.

You you wrote is perfectly fine and I have no issue if you think Javed was better.

 

[Ab Fan]

AB as [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] and [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] explained.

 

[Robert]

Border. Marshall said he played WI the best.

Though in ODIs I would pick Waugh as he was an all-rounder.

 

[Thejedi]

Border or Miandad. Steve Waugh was a late bloomer. He had a relatively torrid time against the better teams when he first started. Plus his stats are greatly padded by playing an abject England from 1994 till his retirement

Ignorant post. S Waugh had a terrific record vs WI.
he was picked before he was ready but once he sorted out his game he was brilliant. In the 90s it was between him and lara/sachin.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Border. Marshall said he played WI the best.

Though in ODIs I would pick Waugh as he was an all-rounder.

Combining Odis was not Miandad the best?Was not Javed more of a match --winner and more aggressive?Unlike Waugh and Border Javed was the best batsmen in the world for s period.

 

[jeetu]

Border because of superior Away record.

[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]WR Hammond (ENG) [/td][td]1927-1947 [/td][td]41 [/td][td]4245 [/td][td]66.32 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]14 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AR Border (AUS) [/td][td]1979-1994 [/td][td]70 [/td][td]5431 [/td][td]56.57 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]28 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SR Waugh (AUS) [/td][td]1986-2003 [/td][td]76 [/td][td]5083 [/td][td]55.85 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]20 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SR Tendulkar (INDIA) [/td][td]1989-2012 [/td][td]106 [/td][td]8705 [/td][td]54.74 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]36 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GC Smith (ICC/SA) [/td][td]2003-2012 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]4854 [/td][td]53.93 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]19 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JH Kallis (ICC/SA) [/td][td]1997-2012 [/td][td]74 [/td][td]5919 [/td][td]53.8 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]23 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KC Sangakkara (SL) [/td][td]2000-2015 [/td][td]53 [/td][td]4888 [/td][td]53.13 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]23 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Dravid (ICC/INDIA) [/td][td]1996-2012 [/td][td]94 [/td][td]7690 [/td][td]53.03 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]36 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SM Gavaskar (INDIA) [/td][td]1971-1986 [/td][td]60 [/td][td]5055 [/td][td]52.11 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]22 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IVA Richards (WI) [/td][td]1974-1991 [/td][td]73 [/td][td]5404 [/td][td]50.5 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]31 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Younis Khan (PAK) [/td][td]2000-2017 [/td][td]71 [/td][td]5608 [/td][td]48.76 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]19 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BC Lara (ICC/WI) [/td][td]1990-2006 [/td][td]66 [/td][td]5736 [/td][td]47.8 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]22 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CH Lloyd (WI) [/td][td]1966-1985 [/td][td]66 [/td][td]4634 [/td][td]46.8 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]24 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S Chanderpaul (WI) [/td][td]1994-2015 [/td][td]81 [/td][td]5579 [/td][td]46.1 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]33 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SP Fleming (NZ) [/td][td]1994-2007 [/td][td]57 [/td][td]4225 [/td][td]45.92 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]25 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inzamam-ul-Haq (ICC/PAK) [/td][td]1992-2007 [/td][td]68 [/td][td]4821 [/td][td]45.91 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]26 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RT Ponting (AUS) [/td][td]1996-2012 [/td][td]71 [/td][td]5360 [/td][td]45.81 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]23 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Javed Miandad (PAK) [/td][td]1976-1993 [/td][td]64 [/td][td]4351 [/td][td]45.8 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]26 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AN Cook (ENG) [/td][td]2006-2018 [/td][td]66 [/td][td]5295 [/td][td]45.64 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]22 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MC Cowdrey (ENG) [/td][td]1954-1975 [/td][td]59 [/td][td]4087 [/td][td]44.91 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]20 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Yousuf (PAK) [/td][td]1998-2010 [/td][td]55 [/td][td]4174 [/td][td]44.88 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]20 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]VVS Laxman (INDIA) [/td][td]1997-2012 [/td][td]77 [/td][td]5014 [/td][td]42.49 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]32 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CG Greenidge (WI) [/td][td]1974-1990 [/td][td]62 [/td][td]4349 [/td][td]42.22 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]19 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DPMD Jayawardene (SL) [/td][td]1998-2014 [/td][td]61 [/td][td]4317 [/td][td]41.5 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]16 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[AZulfi]

stats don't tell the whole story

A more telling stat would be comparison of Border and Waugh's performances in less familiar conditions (i.e. in Asia).

vs Miandad's in less familiar conditions (i.e. minus Asia)

 

[Buffet]

stats don't tell the whole story

A more telling stat would be comparison of Border and Waugh's performances in less familiar conditions (i.e. in Asia).

vs Miandad's in less familiar conditions (i.e. minus Asia)

Here you go,

Border in Asia - Avg 54
Javed outside Asia - Avg 46

 

[ManFan]

Close call between Border and Waugh.

But I would go with Waugh since he could go on and make big scores when set.

Also, his glorious form saw the defeat of the WI, something that Ol' Captain Grumpy couldn't quite achieve even though he was one run away.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Border is a bigger batsman than both Waugh and Miandad.

 

[Pete Rose]

Ignorant post. S Waugh had a terrific record vs WI.
he was picked before he was ready but once he sorted out his game he was brilliant. In the 90s it was between him and lara/sachin.

The sequence of this sentence is amusing: post writer agrees and somehow disagrees.

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

Allan Border vs Steve Waugh

This is probably the closest player comparison ever.
Both have almost similar stats and were equally impactful as leaders.
Both were all time great test players but not so great ODI players. Both were solid batsmans and great part timers too.
Both are world cup winning skippers too.

Who do you think is better among two as a captain and as a player?
I am unable to make choice.

 

[Ab Fan]

I am fan of AB. So, I will obviously pick AB over the two.

Steve Waugh has one thing going in his favour though that he was a better bowler than AB.

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

I am fan of AB. So, I will obviously pick AB over the two.

Steve Waugh has one thing going in his favour though that he was a better bowler than AB.

I always thought you are fan of AB devilliers. Never knew you're fan of real AB.

 

[sweep_shot]

I would pick Steve Waugh.

 

[Ab Fan]

I always thought you are fan of AB devilliers. Never knew you're fan of real AB.

I am just a fan of good quality cricket. Nothing else.

 

[The Googly]

Miandad. He was simply better then the other two. Call it biased but just look at his average. He scored runs everywhere. Wonderful player. Especially in difficult conditions.

 

[James]

Border, for his famous grit.

 

[gazza619]

I guess if you need a 5th bowler than Steve Waugh is your man.

 

[Last Monetarist]

I'd pick AB every time over the other two.

Miandad's record away from home counts against him, while Waugh loses points for being a disastrous runner between the wickets.

 

[Justcrazy]

Not sure if Viv was Test specific here - Javed indeed was the best ODI player of his time after Viv & Zaheer while both AB & Sunny were relatively poor in that format.

My point wasn’t on stats - Border was among the best white batsmen when it comes to play spin, being Aussie he was outstanding against hostile pace & bounce (I am sure you know about that 1983-84 WIN tour of AUS); and he was brilliant against moving ball.

Both were outstanding pressure players, but AB was far more accomplished as all-round Test batsman.

How was Gatting as a spin player ?

 

[Justcrazy]

I guess if you need a 5th bowler than Steve Waugh is your man.

He was not that effective in Test as a bowler

 

[NishanKonar]

Alan Border purely based on his performances against the great West Indies of the 1980s. Javed Miandad was not so great against the West Indies and even Steve Waugh struggled against them in the first half of his career