Why are Gujarati Muslims (especially here in the UK) so fiercely anti-Pakistani?

[Itachi]

Akher, you are concluding too much from those small words. I'l again repeat, i use the term dog as others did it as birds, tigers, dinosaurs. Didn't mean it in any offensive way.

And as for hatered goes, if i hated pakistan, i wouldn't have been here. Yes, i hate pakistani gov system same as you hate indian gov system. But the hatered just stops there. It doesn't comes to common pakistani people in my case. They are same as my indian friends.

 

[desi_boy]

I know this off-topic, but what about say British Muslim Soldiers who fought in Iraq and are fighting in Afghanistan.
And what would many of your thoughts be if hypothetically these same Brit Muslim Soldiers were involved in war with Pakistan? (Especially considering many are of Pakistani origin)

Patriotism and religion can be a lethal cocktail with unknown consequences.

They'd still be Muslims off course......you can pass a judgement about their actions but not their beliefs unless the openly declare a war against Islam and the rest of the muslim world, which I suspect is very highly unlikely.

 

[Sufi]

Akher, you are concluding too much from those small words. I'l again repeat, i use the term dog as others did it as birds, tigers, dinosaurs. Didn't mean it in any offensive way.

And as for hatered goes, if i hated pakistan, i wouldn't have been here. Yes, i hate pakistani gov system same as you hate indian gov system. But the hatered just stops there. It doesn't comes to common pakistani people in my case. They are same as my indian friends.

Exactly.

My neighbor is Indian and they're the nicest people I've ever met.

Hating and generalizing a group of people is pure racism!

 

[Bhaijaan]

I know tons & tons of Indians. Never experienced any sort of anti-Pakistan feelings. In fact they always keep asking about Pakistani food, cities, clothing etc. Same goes with me. I disagree with certain Indian policies but that never reflects in my behavior with my Indian friends.

Thumbsup DFA
Here in Mohali, i have encountered many Pakistani folks during Cricket matches. I must say they are extra nice to Pakistani people and vice versa surely. These retarded fights are limited to internet and politics. Aam aadmi considers people across border as long long brothers.

 

[Green Leopard]

They'd still be Muslims off course......you can pass a judgement about their actions but not their beliefs unless the openly declare a war against Islam and the rest of the muslim world, which I suspect is very highly unlikely.

I am not questioning their beliefs, but just alluding to the OP's opening lines?

There are over 500 British Muslim Serivemen/women in the British Army currently on active duty in Afghanistan.

If hypothetically UK went to war with Pakistan, what would the OP (or som posters on this forum thread) make of these British Muslims?

Just a interested in posters' replies.

 

[Patriot]

i agree . My post was stupid but only because it was too vague and could have easily been misinterpreted which it was .

Good of you to admit your mistake. Not a lot of people do it including me. Nice to see that.

 

[akheR]

Akher, you are concluding too much from those small words. I'l again repeat, i use the term dog as others did it as birds, tigers, dinosaurs. Didn't mean it in any offensive way.

And as for hatered goes, if i hated pakistan, i wouldn't have been here. Yes, i hate pakistani gov system same as you hate indian gov system. But the hatered just stops there. It doesn't comes to common pakistani people in my case. They are same as my indian friends.

Well, I already said if you only used "dog" it would have been OK, but not the rest.

Anyway, you're probably right.

 

[Aly]

Lol, Do you even realize how much generalization you have done there!!!...and btw all the southern Indian states are doing great compared to north indian states and pakistan too ...and remaining part of the post was absurd ...true..thats just you

Actually when I said jolly and happy I never meant it in financial, professional or socioeconomic terms.
Actually even here in Pakistan they're doing brilliantly in that regard. In fact if you ask me I would say that part of this bitterness, solitude, selfishness, fussiness also stem from the fact that they're far too much focused on dry/ nerdy/ academic kind of stuff all their lives.
you know the way some of the professors/ doctors become after having studied so much

 

[IgnitedMind]

Actually when I said jolly and happy I never meant it in financial, professional or socioeconomic terms.
Actually even here in Pakistan they're doing brilliantly in that regard. In fact if you ask me I would say that part of this bitterness, solitude, selfishness, fussiness also stem from the fact that they're far too much focused on dry/ nerdy/ academic kind of stuff all their lives.
you know the way some of the professors/ doctors become after having studied so much

And I am sorry, Jolly and happy does not mean leaving education to dogs either..and neither do becoming a doctor/prof change your personality. Its absurd I have to say this , I come from South India and have seen a lot of jolly people around..doctors/engineers etc in all sorts of proffession...this is just absurd generaliztion. However from my experiance..South Indians take education very seriously than north indians...and may be pakistanis too(i am guessing)

 

[pakistanalltheway]

in the UK when we refer to jolly people we usually mean fat people .

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

I have nothing against Indian people: 2 of my best friends are unjabi Sikh and Gujarati Hindu

 

[pakistanalltheway]

I think the majority of both Pakistanis and Indians don't hate each other it's just the stupid governments .

 

[zzebie]

I know this off-topic, but what about say British Muslim Soldiers who fought in Iraq and are fighting in Afghanistan.
And what would many of your thoughts be if hypothetically these same Brit Muslim Soldiers were involved in war with Pakistan? (Especially considering many are of Pakistani origin)

Patriotism and religion can be a lethal cocktail with unknown consequences.

What a quote!

 

[Namak_Halaal]

There are Indian muslims in India where their families have lived for generations together with a sense of patriotism to India..under THEIR Indian government bestowed with equal rights

Doesn’t make sense. Yes it's understandable that there are Indian Muslims who have being living in India for generations with equal rights, etc, but why are these Indian Muslims anti-Pakistani? For what reason? This is the question. Why and how would the creation of Pakistan effect generations of Indian Muslims (and the equal rights they cherish) to the extent Indian Muslims are anti-Pakistani?

It has to be because they are jealous of Azaad Pakistani Muslims, there is no other reason.

 

[pakistanalltheway]

NH isn't that enough Indian pawning for one day . Lol

 

[Sufi]

Gujarati Muslims should take note of the fact God has told us to not show hatred to fellow muslim brothers and to not pick faults in other muslims.

if Gujarati Muslims show hatred for Pakistani Muslims, then so be it, God is watching, he knows their intentions and they will have to speak for themselves.

 

[Kwremb]

I know quite a few South Indians here and boy they're so nerdy, your typical mama's boys It's just amazing how north indians and south indians are polars apart despie from the same country not to mention southies tend to be darker

 

[moumotta]

It has to be because they are jealous of Azaad Pakistani Muslims, there is no other reason.

by your logic even Pakistani Ahmadi and Shia community should be jealous of Azaad Pakistani Muslims.

 

[Lachrymose]

There was this Gujarati guy in my class once and when Pakistan lost to India after the semi-final, he looked at me and was like "man, I wish Pakistan had won. I wanted Pakistan to win." He seemed serious, but I couldn't tell for sure -___-

Overall, I haven't seen/met a lot of them, so I can't really say whether they're anti-Pakistan or not.

 

[Pure Evil]

by your logic even Pakistani Ahmadi and Shia community should be jealous of Azaad Pakistani Muslims.

Pwned!!

Now see a worm try and wriggle out for its <B>azaadi</B>

 

[msd89]

Once my friend asked an Indian girl what her religion is , her reply : " I am Gujarati ! "

Gujarati is not a religion , it is an ethnicity but you can tell this mentality is a lot like the Jewish people who say being Jewish is a race , ethnicity and religion - everything to them .

Let me tell you , Gujarati people tend to be pretty racist and to this day follow the caste system . They prefer their Gujarati Hindus of their own caste first , then come other Gujarati Hindus , then Gujarati Muslims and then other Indians .

This is exactly how it is!!Even with the Gujarati Muslims

 

[Lachrymose]

Looney really hit the nail

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Gujrati Muslims have angry small people syndrome

 

[Namak_Halaal]

by your logic even Pakistani Ahmadi and Shia community should be jealous of Azaad Pakistani Muslims.

We are talking about Indian Muslims.

What are you talking about?

 

[Asim2Good]

why we should care if they are anti pakistan or not ?

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Because I live with these people. They preach religion but openly hate on my ethnicity. Annoying.

 

[moumotta]

We are talking about Indian Muslims.

What are you talking about?

talking about all muslims who might feel jealous of Azaad Pakistani Muslims.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

talking about all muslims who might feel jealous of Azaad Pakistani Muslims.

Well that's a pity, because were talking about Indian Muslims.

Let me know when you have a point.

 

[soton]

Lol @ some of posts & a big :face palm ) on pakistani posters for generalising Gujarati muslims/Indian muslims and even a bigger facepalm) on Indian posters for generalising Indian muslim views of Kashmir conflict.




sent from my Galaxy SII with Sleek ICS ROM

 

[Itachi]

Lol @ some of posts & a big :face palm ) on pakistani posters for generalising Gujarati muslims/Indian muslims and even a bigger facepalm) on Indian posters for generalising Indian muslim views of Kashmir conflict.




sent from my Galaxy SII with Sleek ICS ROM

enlight the people then.

Sent from nokia1100 with inbuilt torch.

 

[dzor]

Honestly I know many Gujrati hindus - I have never felt the anti-Pakistani sentiment. Even my mum is very good friends with one.

Maybe it's different in Northern England or with Gujrati Muslims for some - I really can't speak for others but I have no problems with them.
Even the Sikhs I know I never felt the anti Pakistani feeling. Obviously it's totally differerent in India.

Same here, some of my best friends are Hind/Sikh

 

[soton]

enlight the people then.

Sent from nokia1100 with inbuilt torch.

On what ????most posters on both side know that the truth is far from what they are trying to project.We dont hate anyone nor do we approve Indian army's atrocities in Kashmir.

sent from my Galaxy SII with Sleek ICS ROM

 

[dps2009]

)

gotta love the character assasination of indian muslims for not choosing to leave their country at the time of partition.. although i can understand the insecurity behind it all. afterall if the biggest source of pride you feel in your country is on a religious basis of its creation ,you gotta find some justification for a HUGE group of people from said religion who rejected that same notion of islamic nationhood. so of course you have to find some flaw in those group of muslims, hence the lack of azaadi nonsense .

i repeat again , indian muslims would rather be non azaad in india than be an azaad pak muslim

 

[pakistanalltheway]

)

gotta love the character assasination of indian muslims for not choosing to leave their country at the time of partition.. although i can understand the insecurity behind it all. afterall if the biggest source of pride you feel in your country is on a religious basis of its creation ,you gotta find some justification for a HUGE group of people from said religion who rejected that same notion of islamic nationhood. so of course you have to find some flaw in those group of muslims, hence the lack of azaadi nonsense .

i repeat again , indian muslims would rather be non azaad in india than be an azaad pak muslim

what evidence do you have ?
did you ask every single Muslim in India personally or are you just assuming .

 

[Namak_Halaal]

)

gotta love the character assasination of indian muslims for not choosing to leave their country at the time of partition.. although i can understand the insecurity behind it all. afterall if the biggest source of pride you feel in your country is on a religious basis of its creation ,you gotta find some justification for a HUGE group of people from said religion who rejected that same notion of islamic nationhood. so of course you have to find some flaw in those group of muslims, hence the lack of azaadi nonsense .

Nice story.

But it still doesn't explain why and how the creation of Pakistan would have an affect on Indian Muslims living for generations with equal rights to the extent they are anti-Pakistani.

i repeat again , indian muslims would rather be non azaad in india than be an azaad pak muslim

Oh, so Indian Muslims rather live like prisoners (2nd class citizens) than live in freedom?

Got it.

 

[zzebie]

Atleast in my experience,I don't think Indians muslims in general have any particular animosity towards the Pakistanis. Because of the tensions between the two countries in the last few decades, Indians muslims behave in the same way as Indian Hindus or Indian Christians do towards Pakistan. Not sure why muslims from India are being singled out?

Tensions between majority and minority communities are always there in every part of the world. Be it Hindu vs Muslim, Muslim vs Christians as in Africa, or even Shia vs Sunni or Protestants vs Catholics as in early days in Ireland.Some nations do a good job to tone those differences down, some not so good a job. Peace out!

 

[RWAC]

)

gotta love the character assasination of indian muslims for not choosing to leave their country at the time of partition.. although i can understand the insecurity behind it all. afterall if the biggest source of pride you feel in your country is on a religious basis of its creation ,you gotta find some justification for a HUGE group of people from said religion who rejected that same notion of islamic nationhood. so of course you have to find some flaw in those group of muslims, hence the lack of azaadi nonsense .

i repeat again , indian muslims would rather be non azaad in india than be an azaad pak muslim

The 170 mn odd "non azaad" Indian Muslims are a thorn in the eye for some. )

 

[akheR]

Indian Muslims are sleeper agents, when the jihadi elaan of Nawabzada Syed Zaid-uz-Zaman Hamid Khan will haunt the Hindu temples and shackle Brahmin dreams, Indian Muslims will march with the warriors of the Khorasan and the oppressed Shudras towards Dehli, and establish Radio Pakistan, InshAllah.

 

[akheR]

N_H & co, we shouldn't discuss India, whether its Hindu or Islamic component, since 1947, we have to move on, we are two different multi-national States and our ancestors (not talking of all Muslims of India) made the choice that living together was an impossibility, I'm sure India is glad to not have all these Islamists and I'm sure that Pakistan is glad to not have all these Hindutva-supporters, Indian Muslims are Indians first, and then Muslims, and by that simple bifurcation fundamentally opposed to what Pakistan stands for, so don't expect them to do a bhangra on Afridi's chakka.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

N_H & co, we shouldn't discuss India, whether its Hindu or Islamic component, since 1947, we have to move on, we are two different multi-national States and our ancestors (not talking of all Muslims of India) made the choice that living together was an impossibility, I'm sure India is glad to not have all these Islamists and I'm sure that Pakistan is glad to not have all these Hindutva-supporters, Indian Muslims are Indians first, and then Muslims, and by that simple bifurcation fundamentally opposed to what Pakistan stands for, so don't expect them to do a bhangra on Afridi's chakka.

Then I guess this settles the OP?

I think there's a little more to it otherwise by your defintion Indian Muslims should also be anti-Bangladeshi?

I’m not sure how one can discuss the OP without having to refer to the history between Pakistan/India.

You see I can understand Indian Hindus who believe India is for Hindus only being anti-Pakistani, after all, Muslims ruling the region for a good part of 1000 years only to end up carving a massive piece out of Gandhi's dream and controlling an abundance of natural resources must've hurt. I can understand Hindus being anti-Islam and vice versea, but what I still fail to understand why Indian Muslims should be anti-Pakistani given these Indian Muslims are still living in the same place where they were for generations – with equal rights - unless of course the Indian Muslims in question were displaced during the partition.

Doesn’t make sense,, why would Indian Muslims be happy in a land where Muslims are treated as second class citizens? Why would Indian Muslims be happy in a land where the rise of Hindu fanaticism threatens the very existence of Muslim minorities in India?

I guess for some Indian Muslims it’s a question of 'if only we had migrated'. . . hence their pain and anger.

Oh well.

 

[akheR]

Then I guess this settles the OP?
...

Oh well.

Yes, I don't think that an "Indian Muslim" - who are you even talking about ? A Mappila ? A Hyderabadi ? A Bohri ? the situations are so different - when "discriminated" sees "Hindus" discriminating them, he doesn't really think on religious basis as in the real world and his every day life, he probably has social connections with all faiths, and it's not about "a Muslim discriminated by a Hindu" but "an Indian discriminated by an Indian fellow" and he probably thinks to change it through a purely juridical process and not appeal to Jihad.

 

[vcool80]

Indian Muslims are ethnically and linguistically not similar to Pakistan. also, most of the Muslims see Hindus,Christians Multicultural Society and are accustomed to it and there is no Hindu/Christian fear unlike in Pakistan(what I understand). ofcourse, there are odd nuts.

IMO, Gujaratis or any other will be seeing a Pakistani or Afghan as a Muslim from Neighbouring Nations. only after deep interactions, You will feel the differences coming out.

OT: Indians even the poorest of the poor can Drink(IMFL?) and Dance without fearing religion. Secularism FTW!

 

[cricketjoshila]

The day the British government allow a mosque to be ripped down by fascists and then given parts of the land away to those fascists then I will agree Britain is as bad for British Pakistani's as India is for Indian Muslims.

Muslims are more azzad in Britain than they will ever be in Hindustan.

Well may be bombing muslims in Iraq Afghanistan and other NATO supported activities dont count.

And atleast Muslims in India dont get bombed killed and ripped apart by drones.They are much safer you know.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Not sure someone has mentioned this before....

1. Founder of Pakistan was gujrati.

2. Most muslim Gujratis in UK are from east Africa. They probably have never set a foot in India.

 

[cricketjoshila]

On topicy Indians dont like Pakistan or Pakistanis.Indian muslims are just a part of that.It may be surprise for Pakistanis many of who think that Muslims of India will support them because of some Muslim Brotherhood,well they dont,not the majority atleast.

Only Muslims i have seen supporting Pakistan are the ones from Hyderabad,who feel that when India took hyderabad they lost out as Nizam was a muslim and they would have ruled.

The second group is in bengal/bihar/UP...people who fled from Bangladesh after it won freedom and many since then.They are mainly of Pakistani origin not Bengalis as they dont even speak the language.

Except these you will find it difficult to find Muslims supporting Pakistanis in India.

 

[moumotta]

Well that's a pity, because were talking about Indian Muslims.

Let me know when you have a point.

Now the pedantic parade starts. If so the thread is about Gujrati muslims and not Indian muslims.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Now the pedantic parade starts. If so the thread is about Gujrati muslims and not Indian muslims.

Pedantic? LOL! So using a nation to distinguish between two sets of Muslims is being Pedantic? What next, there is no difference between Pakistan and India?

Even if I grant your weak comeback, you'd still be in the wrong; it's not about *all* Muslims.

See yah!

 

[KingKhanWC]

Well may be bombing muslims in Iraq Afghanistan and other NATO supported activities dont count.

And atleast Muslims in India dont get bombed killed and ripped apart by drones.They are much safer you know.

I think you need to look at the difference between foreign nation conflicts and domestic based issues.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think you need to look at the difference between foreign nation conflicts and domestic based issues.

Ok.So you dont have issues with UK's foreign policy.Ok.Fine then.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Ok.So you dont have issues with UK's foreign policy.Ok.Fine then.

Of course I do. What has this got to do with the price of fish?

Again foreign policy is not domestic policy, the issue here.

My point to you was simple. Muslims in India had their Mosque torn down and the outcome was to give portion of the land which the mosque stood on to the those who tore it down. You couldn't make it up!

The UK would never reward one minority for destroying anothers religious site.

 

[Green Leopard]

Of course I do. What has this got to do with the price of fish?

Again foreign policy is not domestic policy, the issue here.

My point to you was simple. Muslims in India had their Mosque torn down and the outcome was to give portion of the land which the mosque stood on to the those who tore it down. You couldn't make it up!

The UK would never reward one minority for destroying anothers religious site.

being pedantic, but the ones who tore it down weren't the "minority" of that country.

 

[jusarrived]

)

gotta love the character assasination of indian muslims for not choosing to leave their country at the time of partition.. although i can understand the insecurity behind it all. afterall if the biggest source of pride you feel in your country is on a religious basis of its creation ,you gotta find some justification for a HUGE group of people from said religion who rejected that same notion of islamic nationhood. so of course you have to find some flaw in those group of muslims, hence the lack of azaadi nonsense .

i repeat again , indian muslims would rather be non azaad in india than be an azaad pak muslim

Great post . I couldnt have put it better .

 

[KingKhanWC]

being pedantic, but the ones who tore it down weren't the "minority" of that country.

In the UK Hindu's and Muslims would be both minorities. But thanks, to clarify the majority wouldn't be rewarded as they were in India after abusing a minority.

 

[jusarrived]

Nice story.

But it still doesn't explain why and how the creation of Pakistan would have an affect on Indian Muslims living for generations with equal rights to the extent they are anti-Pakistani.




Oh, so Indian Muslims rather live like prisoners (2nd class citizens) than live in freedom?

Got it.

I bet , even soton would not choose to live in Pak over India .

lol @ freedom in Pak

 

[RWAC]

You see I can understand Indian Hindus who believe India is for Hindus only being anti-Pakistani, after all, Muslims ruling the region for a good part of 1000 years only to end up carving a massive piece out of Gandhi's dream and controlling an abundance of natural resources must've hurt. I can understand Hindus being anti-Islam and vice versea, but what I still fail to understand why Indian Muslims should be anti-Pakistani given these Indian Muslims are still living in the same place where they were for generations – with equal rights - unless of course the Indian Muslims in question were displaced during the partition.

Maybe just for a change, trying to visualize them as Indians, might help you understand. When the media and the government portrays Pakistan as the enemy of the nation (not commenting on the aptness or inaptness of that), it doesn't specifically beam out that message to Hindus. All Indians see that message and are influenced by it. For Indian Muslims who see that message, and especially to those who don't have any ties in Pakistan, they end up believing that message, as much as the average Hindu or Sikh.

I know it is a bit hard to digest Indian Muslims showing a dislike for Pakistanis but maybe seeing it from this perspective will help you stop running around like a confused ant and make up absurd theories about jealosy and envy in Indian Muslims against Pakistani Muslims.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

I bet , even soton would not choose to live in Pak over India .

lol @ freedom in Pak

LOL indeed. The point is not freedom in Pak, point is freedom from India.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Maybe just for a change, trying to visualize them as Indians, might help you understand. When the media and the government portrays Pakistan as the enemy of the nation (not commenting on the aptness or inaptness of that), it doesn't specifically beam out that message to Hindus. All Indians see that message and are influenced by it. For Indian Muslims who see that message, and especially to those who don't have any ties in Pakistan, they end up believing that message, as much as the average Hindu or Sikh.

I know it is a bit hard to digest Indian Muslims showing a dislike for Pakistanis but maybe seeing it from this perspective will help you stop running around like a confused ant and make up absurd theories about jealosy and envy in Indian Muslims against Pakistani Muslims.

This sounds worse.

Brainwashed by the media?

 

[the Great Khan]

ok my two cents, I could go on and on but I'll keep it short.

I find our Muslim Gujrati brethren to be

good points:

1) religious in their practice, good masjid goers, kids go to madrassa,

2) contrary to poular belief the ummah concept is very strong , they favour palestine, chechnya, bosnia etc etc. charity is high for these areas.

3) visually very islamic e.g beards, arab dress, hijabs, jilbabs etc etc.

4) relatively friendly , have had some friends going on 20 years now.

5) can have a good laugh, banter is really good, alot of shareef types. gunda gurdi is less prevalent but is still there.

bad points:

1) narrow minded. If you dont fit in their box they dont know how to handle you.

2) anti pakistan. the ummah ends at the afghan border.

3) pro taliban. (even TTP)

4) educational hypocrites.

5) high levels of hypocrisy and confused behaviour( can be common in paksitanis too) e.g. girls will wear leggings, tight top with a hijab scarf on top. Boys will have beards and topi but will chat girls up and in some cases go further.

6) drugs are a big problem. they dont drink (unless their from up north) but they do have a sootha!!

7) weak minded, e.g they dont seem to be able to stand up for themselves in the face of a dominant community or manager or individual.

8) the deen is heavily ritualised without the haqu-ul-ibaad e.g love thy neighbour. so for example if they see a fello hindu gujrati its chatter chatter chatter in gujrati, but if tehy see a fellow musalman (arab,pakistani, black) its ignore. especially the women. (they will ignore none gujrati muslim women esp pakistanis)

9) they think they are better muslims than Pakistanis who they claim are all barelvi grave worshippers.

10) also resent the partition because they believe it divided the Muslim populace in India. call Jinnah a british agent.

11) emotionally cold. I feel no love, only isolation. you are a surti, baruchi etc before you are anything. caste sytem is prevalent even if they deny it.

12) Gujratis are different to Kuchi's, southern indians, memons who I find more open minded, friendlier, more accepting of Pakistanis, less narrow minded. etc.

most of my friends(i found this out very late on) turned out to be kuchis or memons. the gujratis stand out.

Northern gujratis who have links to blackburn or bolton hate pakistanis who they associate with criminal behaviour, aggressiveness and barelvi-ism.

13) heavily into imam worship and arab worship!!

 

[moumotta]

Pedantic? LOL! So using a nation to distinguish between two sets of Muslims is being Pedantic? What next, there is no difference between Pakistan and India?

Even if I grant your weak comeback, you'd still be in the wrong; it's not about *all* Muslims.

See yah!

When did I say using a nation to distinguish between two sets of Muslims is being Pedantic. Looks like you are trying to answer voices in your head rather than my post.

Let me make it easy for you. You hypothesized that muslims who lack azaadi are jealous of azaad pakistani muslims and that explains their antagonism. If that's true than pakistani muslims who lack azaadi should also exhibit similar behaviour towards their azaad muslims compatriots. It is called testing a hypothesis.

Let me know if it is still not clear.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

When did I say using a nation to distinguish between two sets of Muslims is being Pedantic. Looks like you are trying to answer voices in your head rather than my post.

Let me make it easy for you. You hypothesized that muslims who lack azaadi are jealous of azaad pakistani muslimsand that explains their antagonism. If that's true than pakistani muslims who lack azaadi should also exhibit similar behaviour towards their azaad muslims compatriots. It is called testing a hypothesis.

Let me know if it is still not clear.

Go back and read what I posted, in English, I said INDIAN MUSLIMS, not all Muslims from around the world. The subtle pretext makes a world of difference given the context.

If you still do not understand, the context was anti-Pakistan sentiment hence Indian Muslims.

Before testing a hypothesis it's important you use accurate data.

4th time lucky?

Let me know if you need further help.

 

[Romali_rotti]

ok my two cents, I could go on and on but I'll keep it short.

I find our Muslim Gujrati brethren to be

good points:

1) religious in their practice, good masjid goers, kids go to madrassa,

2) contrary to poular belief the ummah concept is very strong , they favour palestine, chechnya, bosnia etc etc. charity is high for these areas.

3) visually very islamic e.g beards, arab dress, hijabs, jilbabs etc etc.

4) relatively friendly , have had some friends going on 20 years now.

5) can have a good laugh, banter is really good, alot of shareef types. gunda gurdi is less prevalent but is still there.

bad points:

1) narrow minded. If you dont fit in their box they dont know how to handle you.

2) anti pakistan. the ummah ends at the afghan border.

3) pro taliban. (even TTP)

4) educational hypocrites.

5) high levels of hypocrisy and confused behaviour( can be common in paksitanis too) e.g. girls will wear leggings, tight top with a hijab scarf on top. Boys will have beards and topi but will chat girls up and in some cases go further.

6) drugs are a big problem. they dont drink (unless their from up north) but they do have a sootha!!

7) weak minded, e.g they dont seem to be able to stand up for themselves in the face of a dominant community or manager or individual.

8) the deen is heavily ritualised without the haqu-ul-ibaad e.g love thy neighbour. so for example if they see a fello hindu gujrati its chatter chatter chatter in gujrati, but if tehy see a fellow musalman (arab,pakistani, black) its ignore. especially the women. (they will ignore none gujrati muslim women esp pakistanis)

9) they think they are better muslims than Pakistanis who they claim are all barelvi grave worshippers.

10) also resent the partition because they believe it divided the Muslim populace in India. call Jinnah a british agent.

11) emotionally cold. I feel no love, only isolation. you are a surti, baruchi etc before you are anything. caste sytem is prevalent even if they deny it.

12) Gujratis are different to Kuchi's, southern indians, memons who I find more open minded, friendlier, more accepting of Pakistanis, less narrow minded. etc.

most of my friends(i found this out very late on) turned out to be kuchis or memons. the gujratis stand out.

Northern gujratis who have links to blackburn or bolton hate pakistanis who they associate with criminal behaviour, aggressiveness and barelvi-ism.

13) heavily into imam worship and arab worship!!

When I started reading the good points you pointed out I never thought it wouldve ended this badly ....You sure you are not exagerrating a bit here ?

 

[the Great Khan]

When I started reading the good points you pointed out I never thought it wouldve ended this badly ....You sure you are not exagerrating a bit here ?

nope 30 plus years of experience. I could write the same about the Pakistanis. Im just being blunt and honest..by the way most of that is from the Gujratis themselves!!

I must say however in their defence you see less of em indulging in criminality and more towards the deen but then I have no stats to back it up.

this is what I have found in my experience!!

 

[mithun_minhas]

Indian Muslims do not hate Pakistan. Some might have low opinion on Pakistan and its people. But most of my Muslim friends support Muslim countries when India is not playing against them.
My friend roots for Bangladesh, Pakistan in neutral games.

May be Indian Muslims do not believe in Islamic Caliphite and Brotherhood as they are exposed to a lot of liberal, multi cultural environment. Of course there will always be exceptions.

Many will have non-muslims as best friends and watch a lot of patriotic shows on tv from childhood. That plays a big role.

As for Gujarati Muslims, as some one pointed out, many of them belongs to castes that are staunch Hindus and have the same last names and speak the same language. So people connect to Hindu counterparts better and consider Pak Muslims as outsiders who always attack India?

 

[insaan]

Some reasons I can think of in no particular order for Indian (not just Gujrati) Muslims:

1. It can be the same psychology, where a Black police officer has to beat a black criminal harder to show his impartiality to the White officers.

2. Being not trusted by the majority because there has been a partition once. While the majority overlooks the fact that these are people who chose to stay with India. So the Indian Muslims might blame the creation of Pakistan for the distrust shown by the Majority. Which is wrong.

3. Bad news coming from Pakistan, and its negative portrayal by global media. They might think Pakistan is giving a bad name to Muslims and Islam.

4. Being just as Indian as anyone else, and getting influenced by the Govt and Media. The nukes of Pakistan will not spare Indian Muslims, and they have as much a reason to hate Pakistan as any other Indian.

 

[the Great Khan]

Indian Muslims do not hate Pakistan. Some might have low opinion on Pakistan and its people. But most of my Muslim friends support Muslim countries when India is not playing against them.
My friend roots for Bangladesh, Pakistan in neutral games.

May be Indian Muslims do not believe in Islamic Caliphite and Brotherhood as they are exposed to a lot of liberal, multi cultural environment. Of course there will always be exceptions.

Many will have non-muslims as best friends and watch a lot of patriotic shows on tv from childhood. That plays a big role.

As for Gujarati Muslims, as some one pointed out, many of them belongs to castes that are staunch Hindus and have the same last names and speak the same language. So people connect to Hindu counterparts better and consider Pak Muslims as outsiders who always attack India?

this nonsense about them not believing in a caliphate ummah etc is a load of rubbish..some of the ones I know are staunch belivers in the ummah and fund many charities etc for places like chechnya etc etc...they hate the israelis and work hard to promote palestinian ideals..so in that sense they do support the ummah..but it sort of dissapears into the ether when you say Pakistan flood or Pakistan earthquake..

they slink away unless the imam sahib gives announcement in the Masjid to support such disasters which kudos to them they did...

while I was raising money for the floods it was a bloody disgrace..and for Kashmir...but lo and behold the haiti and somalia famine situations came up and they are ready to delve into their pockets straight away..not to mention Gaza..

Its this hypocrisy against pakistan that really opened my eyes to certain elements..

from what I can fathom it is related to the media, their connection to India, and denial...almost a minority slave mentality...

also in many cases "dil choata hay"...as in cheap is good..

another example is quite stark at Eid namaaz..in Pakistan you automatically greet the person sitting next to you whetehr you know them or not...in the predominatley pakistani masajids it still happens in the uk and where I live, but in the deoband gujarati masajids its "namaaz ends' let me go back home as quickly as possible"(im not a barelvi by the way so frequent the predominaltey gujarati masajid )

also they turn up to eid namaaz wearing their night clothes..instead of dressing well..what is up with that? its eid for goodness sake..

I know these are small petty things but they are small examples of what I'm talking about..pyar or compassion boht kum nazar ata hay!!

with us guys we can still manage as most guys will get along..but for the women its worse...lets just say my wife has had many an experience and so has my mother. I have tons of examples..

 

[moumotta]

Go back and read what I posted, in English, I said INDIAN MUSLIMS, not all Muslims from around the world. The subtle pretext makes a world of difference given the context.

If you still do not understand, the context was anti-Pakistan sentiment hence Indian Muslims.

Before testing a hypothesis it's important you use accurate data.

4th time lucky?

Let me know if you need further help.

LOL, the brave warrior continues to hide behind "I was only talking about......".

 

[the Great Khan]

LOL, the brave warrior continues to hide behind "I was only talking about......".

He was quite clear..i dont understand why your deflecting the point..stay on topic mate

 

[Sakib94]

We’re not being oppressed by another religion are we we have our own army which is a big thing in itself

 

[moghul]

Gujrati Muslim ? did any one survive Modi era. Don't care if they hate Pakistan , just wish for their safety, they went through hell under Modi.