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Why are Pakistanis so successful at finding jobs in Germany?

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A recent study by Germany's Federal Employment Agency concluded that Pakistanis have been the most successful at finding work in the EU country over the past couple of years. DW examines the reasons behind their success.

He speaks and understands very little German. On the face of it, 37-year-old Akbar Ali may be considered one of the least integrated migrants in Germany. However, he has learned very quickly how to adapt spicy Indian-Pakistani cuisine to suit German and European taste buds.

For the past ten months, Ali has been working part-time as an assistant in the kitchen of an Indian/Pakistani restaurant in the western German city of Bonn. Securing the job was not an easy task. "Not understanding the language was the main problem in finding a job. There was hardly anyone I knew who could understand my language and help me out. Having no work and no social life was one of the hardest times for me," Ali told DW.

Work as a coping mechanism

Ali is one of the nearly 30,000 Pakistani migrants who have arrived in Germany since 2015. He is also among the 40 percent of migrants from Pakistan who have managed to find a job in Europe's largest economy.

According to a recent study published by the Institute for Employment Research (IAB), a special office of Germany's Federal Employment Agency, Pakistanis have been the most successful among all migrants in finding employment in Germany.

For Ali, being employed means more than just earning extra money. His brother in Pakistan passed away last month, and keeping busy at work here helped him cope with the loss.

He spent almost two years, looking for any possible way to keep himself occupied and earn some extra money before he finally met Aleem Latif, who owns a successful restaurant in Bonn's old town, and who opened another in nearby Siegburg last year.

"Because of the language barrier and the lack of recognized skills, it is hard for Pakistani migrants to find jobs in other sectors. I hired Ali as I knew that he can be trained," Latif told DW. "We have Pakistani students working with us and many students looking for part-time jobs. So there was obviously an element of empathy in hiring a migrant, which requires a lot of paper work."

German — EU citizens still get priority

According to federal legislation, German and European Union citizens are given priority in the job market. Non-EU citizens, on the other hand, are only granted permission to work certain jobs for which German or EU citizens are not available. This requirement was partially suspended in 2016 to enhance the employment chances for refugees whose asylum applications had been accepted in Germany.

Coupled with other factors, these regulations are one of the reasons why migrants from Pakistan primarily get permission to work in Indian or Pakistani restaurants.

Danyal Ali Rizwan is another Pakistani migrant who is currently living in an asylum center in the town of Neumarkt in the southern German state of Bavaria. Rizwan comes from the volatile Parachinar region located on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Rizwan told DW that he worked for a year at an Indian restaurant. "Later I found a job in another local company. However, the Federal Employment Agency did not give me permission to work there and since then, I do not have a job," he said.

Acceptance quota declining

According to the EU statistics office, Eurostat, 28,395 Pakistani migrants applied for asylum in Germany between 2015 and 2017. Over 15,000 of those asylum applications were submitted to German authorities in 2016 alone.

Over 90 percent of Pakistani asylum seekers are men, with women roughly making up the remaining 10 percent. Most Pakistani asylum seekers are young males, with almost 74 percent of them being between 18 and 34-years old.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, a Pakistani interpreter working with Germany's Federal Office for Migration and Refugees (BAMF) claimed that the majority of Pakistanis seeking refuge in Germany are economic migrants, primarily from the South Asian nation's Punjab province.

Of the asylum applications filed by Pakistanis between 2015 and 2017, only 5.4 percent were approved in the first instance.

The acceptance ratio among male applicants between the ages of 18 and 34 was even lower at 2.7 percent. In 2014, just before the start of the refugee crisis in Europe, over 27 percent of Pakistani migrants successfully obtained asylum in Germany.

It should also be noted that Pakistani migrants are unable to attend German language and integration courses unless their asylum applications are accepted. These courses are normally offered to those with refugee status from countries like Syria and Iraq.

Yet, despite these hurdles, Pakistani migrants have still managed to find employment at a higher rate than asylum seekers from other countries.

Respect more important than money

Out of the ten Pakistani migrants that DW spoke with in Bonn, five of them successfully obtained jobs since arriving in 2015. Most of them come from rural areas and small cities between Islamabad and Lahore — where prospects are slim for improving one's economic situation.

20-year-old Usman was the youngest among them and most fluent in the German language.

"I am working not just to earn money. More important than that is the fact that being employed earns me social respect," he said.

Similarly, Ali emphasized that he wants to work because he does not want to rely on social assistance from the German government. "I want to earn my living with my own hands," he said.

For Latif, gaining social respect is one of the main motivating factors behind the high employment rate among migrants from Pakistan. "Most of them have the burden of earning money for their families back in Pakistan, but social respect within the Pakistani community here is equally important for them."

http://www.dw.com/en/why-are-pakist...83455?maca=en-RSS_en_Flipboard-9487-xml-media
 
The economy is really strong in Germany and they need a lot of skilled migrants. I work in the headquarters of the one of the biggest German firms and our working language is English. I see a significant number of students from India/Pakistan easily get jobs with English speaking firms.
 
I don't consider folks working as a chefs or waiters as "successful" since those jobs are in most cases minimum wage.


It'll be a success when Pakistanis are working managerial level jobs in engineering companies or banking/financial management institutions.
 
I don't consider folks working as a chefs or waiters as "successful" since those jobs are in most cases minimum wage.


It'll be a success when Pakistanis are working managerial level jobs in engineering companies or banking/financial management institutions.

Agreed. Pakistanis will be considered successful when they become like you.
 
I don't consider folks working as a chefs or waiters as "successful" since those jobs are in most cases minimum wage.


It'll be a success when Pakistanis are working managerial level jobs in engineering companies or banking/financial management institutions.

"Successful" is subjective, not everybody has the money defined vision of success that desis and asians have. Also chefs aren't minimum wage, you're probably thinking of cooks. Head chefs make a pretty decent living and some can get quite wealthy.
 
"Successful" is subjective, not everybody has the money defined vision of success that desis and asians have. Also chefs aren't minimum wage, you're probably thinking of cooks. Head chefs make a pretty decent living and some can get quite wealthy.

Those are for top notch high end restaurants... the article mentions Pakistani/Indian restaurants which do not fall in that category.
 
I don't consider folks working as a chefs or waiters as "successful" since those jobs are in most cases minimum wage.


It'll be a success when Pakistanis are working managerial level jobs in engineering companies or banking/financial management institutions.

disgraceful post :facepalm:
 
Immigration and asylum seekers should not be allowed in any country if they do not come with females.

Allowing only Males is like invasion.
 
disgraceful post :facepalm:

The title said why are Pakistanis successful in Germany and then the post mentioned them working as chefs which are generally minimum wage jobs, how are they successful? Is them getting a job considered a success?
 
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When did I say I was successful? Personal attacks :facepalm:

Because you attacked personally to those who can’t defend themselves on this forum.

Your initial comment is ignorant.

Not everyone is going to be a doctor, engineer or multi-millionaire.
 
Because you attacked personally to those who can’t defend themselves on this forum.

Your initial comment is ignorant.

Not everyone is going to be a doctor, engineer or multi-millionaire.

Read post number 10
 
Success is always relative. Its better to be a chef or cook in Germany than die of hunger and poverty in native land.
 
I don't consider folks working as a chefs or waiters as "successful" since those jobs are in most cases minimum wage.


It'll be a success when Pakistanis are working managerial level jobs in engineering companies or banking/financial management institutions.

Poor comment.

You need to consider there are many people like these around the world support their poor families in Pakistan through these jobs. For them it's a success They don't have lot of choice. Not everyone gets a chance to study aboard and find a job as an engineer or a doctor.
 
The title said why are Pakistanis successful in Germany and then the post mentioned them working as chefs which are generally minimum wage jobs, how are they successful? Is them getting a job considered a success?

Read post number 10

Your comments are getting ignorant as you trying to get out of the hole that you dig yourself.

"I am working not just to earn money. More important than that is the fact that being employed earns me social respect," he said.

Imagine if he had met you. He would be criticized for working hard to earn money.
 
The title said why are Pakistanis successful in Germany and then the post mentioned them working as chefs which are generally minimum wage jobs, how are they successful? Is them getting a job considered a success?

successful at FINDING JOBS compared to others.

You need to read the title again
 
Compared to what other nationalities though and where are the statistics?
 
Your comments are getting ignorant as you trying to get out of the hole that you dig yourself.



Imagine if he had met you. He would be criticized for working hard to earn money.

Don't put words in my mouth and learn to appreciate a little difference of opinion. The thread title was originally "why are Pakistanis so successful in Germany"
 
Don't put words in my mouth and learn to appreciate a little difference of opinion. The thread title was originally "why are Pakistanis so successful in Germany"

In my opinion your comment was 'ignorant' and 'poor'.
 
I decided on migrating to Germany when I first visited it in 2002 and fell in love with the place. It was either Germany or Romania (The Mrs being German/Romanian). She felt (still feels) more at home in Romania due to the devil may care attitude but I was someone who liked stability and the rule of law, especially after my rebellious years. Also it provided our daughter with better future possibilities and we did not want to uproot her from her homeland.

When I came I had the expertise to consultancy business between the Sheikhs (in the UAE) and Europe (Was Romania till then) but to succeed in Germany you have to learn the language. My wife is a lawyer specializing in German/Romanian law (runs her own construction company now)and we had/have a good income plus I had sufficient savings but when I arrived I enrolled in a Schnelllerner Kurs (Rapid Learning Course) for German which was 6 hours everyday for an year till I got my B2 degree but I also applied for part time jobs as I did not want to stay home and I knew that socializing would help me learn the language/pick up the little nuances and generally help understand the local culture faster.

I have worked as an apprentice to a Meister Piano builder (started off as a polisher) for 8 months, Packed, stored (got a Stapelchein license (forklift) for that) and readied tons of that stuff each day (especially during Christmas season) and then drove for a short stint (about 2 months) delivering packages for a venture we had started on the side but was unsuccessful.

Coming back on topic I did meet a lot of Pakistanis during that time among other various nationalities (Arabs and Eastern European, not many Indians though) and they were the most hard working bunch I met (most of them). Good thing was that due to the laws of the country and the regulations in place hard work is actually rewarded here unlike in Pakistan and many of them were satisfied with what they earned and didn't have to be wary about people cheating them plus they had the added benefit of having their health insurance etc paid.

My firm is doing very well now but I will never forget those experiences.
 
I don't consider folks working as a chefs or waiters as "successful" since those jobs are in most cases minimum wage.


It'll be a success when Pakistanis are working managerial level jobs in engineering companies or banking/financial management institutions.

Am no chef being someone who is pursuing a career in a similar area as you but that's a bit harsh lol

As long as someone is happy and earns their money clean that is a big success in itself, plus there are always opportunities to progress beyond those roles e.g becoming a manager in a restaurant or opening your own etc

Plus being a chef could be someones life long passion, I know a fella who got a chemistry degree because his mommy wanted him to pursue it but after handing his qualification to his momma he decided to pursue his dream which was to become a plumber.

Success should never be measured by someone else's ruler or what society deems to be acceptable so long you're not a chor like Nawaz Sharif.
 
I decided on migrating to Germany when I first visited it in 2002 and fell in love with the place. It was either Germany or Romania (The Mrs being German/Romanian). She felt (still feels) more at home in Romania due to the devil may care attitude but I was someone who liked stability and the rule of law, especially after my rebellious years. Also it provided our daughter with better future possibilities and we did not want to uproot her from her homeland.

When I came I had the expertise to consultancy business between the Sheikhs (in the UAE) and Europe (Was Romania till then) but to succeed in Germany you have to learn the language. My wife is a lawyer specializing in German/Romanian law (runs her own construction company now)and we had/have a good income plus I had sufficient savings but when I arrived I enrolled in a Schnelllerner Kurs (Rapid Learning Course) for German which was 6 hours everyday for an year till I got my B2 degree but I also applied for part time jobs as I did not want to stay home and I knew that socializing would help me learn the language/pick up the little nuances and generally help understand the local culture faster.

I have worked as an apprentice to a Meister Piano builder (started off as a polisher) for 8 months, Packed, stored (got a Stapelchein license (forklift) for that) and readied tons of that stuff each day (especially during Christmas season) and then drove for a short stint (about 2 months) delivering packages for a venture we had started on the side but was unsuccessful.

Coming back on topic I did meet a lot of Pakistanis during that time among other various nationalities (Arabs and Eastern European, not many Indians though) and they were the most hard working bunch I met (most of them). Good thing was that due to the laws of the country and the regulations in place hard work is actually rewarded here unlike in Pakistan and many of them were satisfied with what they earned and didn't have to be wary about people cheating them plus they had the added benefit of having their health insurance etc paid.

My firm is doing very well now but I will never forget those experiences.

TPOTW, great insight. Thanks for sharing buddy, love reading posts like these. Commend your hard work and am glad you're doing well now having been through all of that
 
I don't consider folks working as a chefs or waiters as "successful" since those jobs are in most cases minimum wage.


It'll be a success when Pakistanis are working managerial level jobs in engineering companies or banking/financial management institutions.

The most ignorant comment. This is shameful any money earned through hardwork should be considered a “success”.
 
I don't consider folks working as a chefs or waiters as "successful" since those jobs are in most cases minimum wage.


It'll be a success when Pakistanis are working managerial level jobs in engineering companies or banking/financial management institutions.

You can be succesful by becoming a chef. You can become a top chef and then open your own restaurant and make hundred of thousands of pounds a year. Let's not be narrow minded pal. People like me rather have our own business then work in a career for other people.
 
A lot of my generation had parents who had to start with virtually nothing when they came here, other than enterprise and hard work. Yet our generation has some of the most successful Pakistanis career or business wise in the country. Who's to say that those people in that article won't be producing similar success stories of the next generation?
 
I decided on migrating to Germany when I first visited it in 2002 and fell in love with the place. It was either Germany or Romania (The Mrs being German/Romanian). She felt (still feels) more at home in Romania due to the devil may care attitude but I was someone who liked stability and the rule of law, especially after my rebellious years. Also it provided our daughter with better future possibilities and we did not want to uproot her from her homeland.

When I came I had the expertise to consultancy business between the Sheikhs (in the UAE) and Europe (Was Romania till then) but to succeed in Germany you have to learn the language. My wife is a lawyer specializing in German/Romanian law (runs her own construction company now)and we had/have a good income plus I had sufficient savings but when I arrived I enrolled in a Schnelllerner Kurs (Rapid Learning Course) for German which was 6 hours everyday for an year till I got my B2 degree but I also applied for part time jobs as I did not want to stay home and I knew that socializing would help me learn the language/pick up the little nuances and generally help understand the local culture faster.

I have worked as an apprentice to a Meister Piano builder (started off as a polisher) for 8 months, Packed, stored (got a Stapelchein license (forklift) for that) and readied tons of that stuff each day (especially during Christmas season) and then drove for a short stint (about 2 months) delivering packages for a venture we had started on the side but was unsuccessful.

Coming back on topic I did meet a lot of Pakistanis during that time among other various nationalities (Arabs and Eastern European, not many Indians though) and they were the most hard working bunch I met (most of them). Good thing was that due to the laws of the country and the regulations in place hard work is actually rewarded here unlike in Pakistan and many of them were satisfied with what they earned and didn't have to be wary about people cheating them plus they had the added benefit of having their health insurance etc paid.

My firm is doing very well now but I will never forget those experiences.

Sometimes I question myself that why do I spend so much time on pp but then posts like these appear and all the questions just subside immediately.

Beautiful and inspiring post and so relatable because I've been trying super hard to make a living for myself as well.

You've been a great addition to pp and this is a heartfelt thank you to you for putting this out here.
 
TPOTW, great insight. Thanks for sharing buddy, love reading posts like these. Commend your hard work and am glad you're doing well now having been through all of that


Sometimes I question myself that why do I spend so much time on pp but then posts like these appear and all the questions just subside immediately.

Beautiful and inspiring post and so relatable because I've been trying super hard to make a living for myself as well.

You've been a great addition to pp and this is a heartfelt thank you to you for putting this out here.

Thank you both for the kind words. Actually it was even harder as I had an established and flourishing business in Dubai but had to abruptly migrate due to some reasons and start from scratch at the age of 30 in a foreign country with a foreign language, foreign culture (culture part wasn't that big a deal though) etc, Romania would have been easier as I knew the language, have lived there for years and have a lot of relatives and friends from the wife's side but chose Germany after considering all options.

The good thing is that in such countries with hard work and a bit of luck one can actually realize their dreams.
 
Thank you both for the kind words. Actually it was even harder as I had an established and flourishing business in Dubai but had to abruptly migrate due to some reasons and start from scratch at the age of 30 in a foreign country with a foreign language, foreign culture (culture part wasn't that big a deal though) etc, Romania would have been easier as I knew the language, have lived there for years and have a lot of relatives and friends from the wife's side but chose Germany after considering all options.

The good thing is that in such countries with hard work and a bit of luck one can actually realize their dreams.

Is it good for children from a religious (islamic) and cultural point of view. My husband got a job there and we are still thinking about whether to take it or not?
 
30,000 Pakistanis have arrived in Germany since 2015. That is only one country in Europe. How many have migrated to other countries?

What happened to Pakistan? There is no civil war, occupation by foreign forces. Then why are Pakistanis leaving their own land?
 
30,000 Pakistanis have arrived in Germany since 2015. That is only one country in Europe. How many have migrated to other countries?

What happened to Pakistan? There is no civil war, occupation by foreign forces. Then why are Pakistanis leaving their own land?

I know I may sound a bit ignorant here but how does this migration work? Like do you just take a flight (or any other transport) to say Germany and refuse to go back home?
 
30,000 Pakistanis have arrived in Germany since 2015. That is only one country in Europe. How many have migrated to other countries?

What happened to Pakistan? There is no civil war, occupation by foreign forces. Then why are Pakistanis leaving their own land?

Most of those coming since 2015 have been calling themselves Afghan refugees.
 
I don't consider folks working as a chefs or waiters as "successful" since those jobs are in most cases minimum wage.


It'll be a success when Pakistanis are working managerial level jobs in engineering companies or banking/financial management institutions.

Totally agree with this, people not getting your point because you haven't explained.

Actually in Pakistan, people dont like to do job like waiter or driver / or somehow they feel shame in doing such jobs e.t.c especially if they are educated.

But they happily do the same thing in abroad and feel proud.
 
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Most of those coming since 2015 have been calling themselves Afghan refugees.

Maybe some have and maybe some even Syrians.

But in Pakistan there is little employment and from what Ive heard the wages are very very low.

Here in the UK there are thousands of low skilled jobs which can't be filled, even though the minimum wage has increased to £7.83. Its not great but not poor either.
 
Totally agree with this, people not getting your point because you haven't explained.

Actually in Pakistan, people dont like to do job like waiter or driver / or somehow they feel shame in doing such jobs e.t.c especially if they are educated.

But they happily do the same thing in abroad and feel proud.

Because people like you and the person you quoted look down upon on the hard working man trying to earn halal, whereas in west, anyone working hard is respected.
 
Is it good for children from a religious (islamic) and cultural point of view. My husband got a job there and we are still thinking about whether to take it or not?

Depends upon your definition of religious and cultural. People of all faiths are accepted here and there are many mosques and classes if you want to send your children for religious education. Although if they are children they will grow out of the religious aspect here sooner or later given their social circle, it's natural.

Most of the people don't really care about your religion in a general sense but there have been quite a few demonstrations from PEGIDA etc but there are almost double the people on the streets opposing them. So basically it is a case of being treated how you treat others. I have had many an encounter where people talk to me suspiciously until we have a conversation going, then it's all OK. Not that i fault them as there are many troublemakers who just do it for the sake of it.

Also depends where you are, city folk are more tolerant than country folk. Also I may be biased but people from the Baden areas are more open than the people from the Bayeriche areas but that is also a generalization.
 
Totally agree with this, people not getting your point because you haven't explained.

Actually in Pakistan, people dont like to do job like waiter or driver / or somehow they feel shame in doing such jobs e.t.c especially if they are educated.

But they happily do the same thing in abroad and feel proud.

Yes because nobody is judging them and back home it is all about showing off how better a person you are if you don't do manual labor. You will be treated as a human being if you wait tables or a head of a major company. I actually had a better sense of accomplishment when I was working with my hands even if I had quite a few bruises.
 
I decided on migrating to Germany when I first visited it in 2002 and fell in love with the place. It was either Germany or Romania (The Mrs being German/Romanian). She felt (still feels) more at home in Romania due to the devil may care attitude but I was someone who liked stability and the rule of law, especially after my rebellious years. Also it provided our daughter with better future possibilities and we did not want to uproot her from her homeland.

When I came I had the expertise to consultancy business between the Sheikhs (in the UAE) and Europe (Was Romania till then) but to succeed in Germany you have to learn the language. My wife is a lawyer specializing in German/Romanian law (runs her own construction company now)and we had/have a good income plus I had sufficient savings but when I arrived I enrolled in a Schnelllerner Kurs (Rapid Learning Course) for German which was 6 hours everyday for an year till I got my B2 degree but I also applied for part time jobs as I did not want to stay home and I knew that socializing would help me learn the language/pick up the little nuances and generally help understand the local culture faster.

I have worked as an apprentice to a Meister Piano builder (started off as a polisher) for 8 months, Packed, stored (got a Stapelchein license (forklift) for that) and readied tons of that stuff each day (especially during Christmas season) and then drove for a short stint (about 2 months) delivering packages for a venture we had started on the side but was unsuccessful.

Coming back on topic I did meet a lot of Pakistanis during that time among other various nationalities (Arabs and Eastern European, not many Indians though) and they were the most hard working bunch I met (most of them). Good thing was that due to the laws of the country and the regulations in place hard work is actually rewarded here unlike in Pakistan and many of them were satisfied with what they earned and didn't have to be wary about people cheating them plus they had the added benefit of having their health insurance etc paid.

My firm is doing very well now but I will never forget those experiences.

Danke for this story. Motivating.
 
Because people like you and the person you quoted look down upon on the hard working man trying to earn halal, whereas in west, anyone working hard is respected.

Like I said don't put words in my mouth
 
So how many of you studied philosophy at school? :))

There’s a difference between an individual’s version of success and a society’s version of success. [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] was probably talking about the latter. I mean, if you follow philosophy you’re successful if you’re happy with your life. That’s how every individual should think like. But don’t expect the society to call you ‘successful’ just because of that. There are certain benchmarks in a society. And depending upon the society you live in or the people you interact with, these benchmarks can vary. If you don’t show the intent to improve and get better, you won’t be successful. I’ll have great respect for a man or woman who works hard and feeds his or her family. But I’m not going to call him or her ‘successful’. Similarly I may not respect a guy with a bad character even if he’s successful. Respect and success are two different things.
[MENTION=146530]DeadBall[/MENTION] thanks for sharing your story man.
 
30,000 Pakistanis have arrived in Germany since 2015. That is only one country in Europe. How many have migrated to other countries?

What happened to Pakistan? There is no civil war, occupation by foreign forces. Then why are Pakistanis leaving their own land?

Pakistan is not a wealthy country, it is very undeveloped and has a law and order issues - a lot of which is tied to Afghanistan (you don't choose your neighbors).
 
There’s a difference between an individual’s version of success and a society’s version of success. [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] was probably talking about the latter. I mean, if you follow philosophy you’re successful if you’re happy with your life. That’s how every individual should think like. But don’t expect the society to call you ‘successful’ just because of that. There are certain benchmarks in a society. And depending upon the society you live in or the people you interact with, these benchmarks can vary. If you don’t show the intent to improve and get better, you won’t be successful. I’ll have great respect for a man or woman who works hard and feeds his or her family. But I’m not going to call him or her ‘successful’. Similarly I may not respect a guy with a bad character even if he’s successful. Respect and success are two different things.

Well explained. However the OP was about being generally successful in finding jobs and not about being successful in one's career/life/etc. Your point is still valid though.
 
So how many of you studied philosophy at school? :))

There’s a difference between an individual’s version of success and a society’s version of success. [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] was probably talking about the latter. I mean, if you follow philosophy you’re successful if you’re happy with your life. That’s how every individual should think like. But don’t expect the society to call you ‘successful’ just because of that. There are certain benchmarks in a society. And depending upon the society you live in or the people you interact with, these benchmarks can vary. If you don’t show the intent to improve and get better, you won’t be successful. I’ll have great respect for a man or woman who works hard and feeds his or her family. But I’m not going to call him or her ‘successful’. Similarly I may not respect a guy with a bad character even if he’s successful. Respect and success are two different things.

[MENTION=146530]DeadBall[/MENTION] thanks for sharing your story man.

What’s the benchmark, USD100,000, I million, 1billion etc?
 
What's wrong with being a chef? It's a pretty glamourous, decent paying job.

A mere cook on the other hand...
 
Depends upon your definition of religious and cultural. People of all faiths are accepted here and there are many mosques and classes if you want to send your children for religious education. Although if they are children they will grow out of the religious aspect here sooner or later given their social circle, it's natural.

Most of the people don't really care about your religion in a general sense but there have been quite a few demonstrations from PEGIDA etc but there are almost double the people on the streets opposing them. So basically it is a case of being treated how you treat others. I have had many an encounter where people talk to me suspiciously until we have a conversation going, then it's all OK. Not that i fault them as there are many troublemakers who just do it for the sake of it.

Also depends where you are, city folk are more tolerant than country folk. Also I may be biased but people from the Baden areas are more open than the people from the Bayeriche areas but that is also a generalization.

Thats quite true actually. I live in Munich, and whenever I am not wearing a suit, I have had a few racist incidents. Though most of it has been from people aged 40+, however, there have been a few incidents involving young Bavarians. Even Munich feels conservative. I cant imagine how the Bavarian countryside would be.

Just for comparison sake, I lived 12+ years in London and never had a racist incident - in a professional or social level.
 
Maybe some have and maybe some even Syrians.

But in Pakistan there is little employment and from what Ive heard the wages are very very low.

Here in the UK there are thousands of low skilled jobs which can't be filled, even though the minimum wage has increased to £7.83. Its not great but not poor either.

The problem though, is when you come here lying to be Afghans or Syrians, in place of people who really need it.

Most European countries have a limit on the number of people they will take. Now a Syrian or an Afghan who are displaced and are really in need for shelter and life protection, will have their refugee status refuted and sent back to their country. There is a danger to their life back home for an Afghan or a Syrian vs just lack of employment in Pakistan.

The person coming in disguised as an Afghan or Syrian could have lead to the death of an actual Syrian or Afghan.
Most countries have
 
Depends upon your definition of religious and cultural. People of all faiths are accepted here and there are many mosques and classes if you want to send your children for religious education. Although if they are children they will grow out of the religious aspect here sooner or later given their social circle, it's natural.

Most of the people don't really care about your religion in a general sense but there have been quite a few demonstrations from PEGIDA etc but there are almost double the people on the streets opposing them. So basically it is a case of being treated how you treat others. I have had many an encounter where people talk to me suspiciously until we have a conversation going, then it's all OK. Not that i fault them as there are many troublemakers who just do it for the sake of it.

Also depends where you are, city folk are more tolerant than country folk. Also I may be biased but people from the Baden areas are more open than the people from the Bayeriche areas but that is also a generalization.

Thank you for explaining this. It's really helpful for me.:)
 
What’s the benchmark, USD100,000, I million, 1billion etc?

It depends on the society and your network. There people who believe being successful is having enough liquid cash to afford pretty much any luxury on the planet. Based on that definition most of us aren’t successful. But do we care? No! Actually being successful isn’t all about money. It has something to do with things like social status as well. Because ‘success’ is a perception, there are several factors that can influence it. It’s just that people often associate success with money as it’s a common factor when you look at successful people.

But generally if you earn enough to lead a very comfortable life, you’re somewhat successful. Syed was probably talking about some professions/jobs that can potentially fetch you that life.

But [MENTION=146530]DeadBall[/MENTION] is right. The ‘success’ discussed in the OP is different to the ‘success’ being discussed here.
 
It depends on the society and your network. There people who believe being successful is having enough liquid cash to afford pretty much any luxury on the planet. Based on that definition most of us aren’t successful. But do we care? No! Actually being successful isn’t all about money. It has something to do with things like social status as well. Because ‘success’ is a perception, there are several factors that can influence it. It’s just that people often associate success with money as it’s a common factor when you look at successful people.

But generally if you earn enough to lead a very comfortable life, you’re somewhat successful. Syed was probably talking about some professions/jobs that can potentially fetch you that life.

But [MENTION=146530]DeadBall[/MENTION] is right. The ‘success’ discussed in the OP is different to the ‘success’ being discussed here.

what is the benchmark of comfortable life?

king size bed or queen size bed, three meals a day of your choice, roof over head, paying the bills?
 
what is the benchmark of comfortable life?

king size bed or queen size bed, three meals a day of your choice, roof over head, paying the bills?

You’re part of a society right? So you should know the answer. Or are you an anti-social something?!

I get your point man. So many people migrate to other countries because of the circumstances. Practically the sole bread winner of the family or no other members having any kinda stable income etc etc. When such an individual migrates to some other country, adapts to the circumstances there and manages to supports himself and the family back home, he/she is a successful individual in my book. I wasn’t talking about that. I was talking about the social perception of ‘success’.

There was a time when the situation was similar in India too, but we’re slowly and steadily getting out of it.
 
You’re part of a society right? So you should know the answer. Or are you an anti-social something?!

I get your point man. So many people migrate to other countries because of the circumstances. Practically the sole bread winner of the family or no other members having any kinda stable income etc etc. When such an individual migrates to some other country, adapts to the circumstances there and manages to supports himself and the family back home, he/she is a successful individual in my book. I wasn’t talking about that. I was talking about the social perception of ‘success’.

There was a time when the situation was similar in India too, but we’re slowly and steadily getting out of it.

This.
 
Thank you for explaining this. It's really helpful for me.:)

Coincidentally and ironically got this pamphlet in the mail today. Don't think they saw my Muslim name or the Turkish Muslim name of my neighbor which is even funnier.

View attachment 82058

Basically it says to stop the construction of the biggest Turkish mosque here and that other mosques are used to indoctrinate, brainwash, radicalize the young etc.

I do however know that most of neighbors will throw it away but the right and anti Muslim sentiments are surely rising.
 
Coincidentally and ironically got this pamphlet in the mail today. Don't think they saw my Muslim name or the Turkish Muslim name of my neighbor which is even funnier.

View attachment 82058

Basically it says to stop the construction of the biggest Turkish mosque here and that other mosques are used to indoctrinate, brainwash, radicalize the young etc.

I do however know that most of neighbors will throw it away but the right and anti Muslim sentiments are surely rising.

Tbh i have seen only turkish mosques in my 6 month stay in Stuttgart. Is there any Saudi mosque around the Baden-Württemberg region in general?
 
Came across this article today. Logged in to PP and saw it being discussed here as well. Thought why not give my two cents about the topic and help add perspective to a thread that doesn't seem to have too many first hand experiences.

Talking strictly about engineering/IT sector, Pakistanis are going pretty nicely in Germany in general and Munich in particular. Especially the ones who have studied communication/IT at any of the top universities here, find it pretty easy to land a fairly good job even if they don't have adequate German speaking skills; telecom/power electronics/software sector has many big tech companies like Intel, Infineon, NXP semiconductor and they have pretty relaxing work environment with a multitude of nationalities working there so they are pretty receptive to English.

Almost all of my friends/acquaintances graduating from the aforementioned disciplines are either working in Munich or in some other large German city and are doing pretty good.

The people with other engineering background struggle wee bit more, partly because those sectors (Civil/Transportation/Power - to a lesser extent) are more 'German' in nature and hence require you to have sufficient language skills to enter them, and partly because Pakistanis can be found a bit wanting when it comes to learning German (although that's just my observation, although there are many guys I know who are speaking pretty good German even when they don't need it at their work place). So you can say that the two aspects are mutually related. If you can speak the language are technically good enough, you'll be snaffled in no time (Again know about such cases as well)!

Also, I know Pakistanis at the heart of a couple of startups here as well which again promotes the reputation of the country fellows.



Coming to the aspect of migrant workers doing good, that's a completely different topic. I'll probably share my opinion in detail in a separate post. But most of those who have come as 'migrants' have come through illegal means citing unsafe situation in the country or in some cases posing as Afghanis. In reality, they are economic migrants masquerading as political asylum seekers and as stated in the article, hail from Central Punjab (Gujrat, Sialkot). Yes, many of them adjust here quickly and get jobs of various nature but some of them are dodging the system as well and exploiting whatever 'feel-good' factor left, if any, for actual and deserving refugees.

Whether they are entitled to starting a new life here - having arrived here somehow ultimately - or not is something debatable and arguments can be made in their favor as well but I was expecting something about skilled labour performance in the article when I opened it but what I came across was slightly underwhelming for sure.
 
Coincidentally and ironically got this pamphlet in the mail today. Don't think they saw my Muslim name or the Turkish Muslim name of my neighbor which is even funnier.

View attachment 82058

Basically it says to stop the construction of the biggest Turkish mosque here and that other mosques are used to indoctrinate, brainwash, radicalize the young etc.

I do however know that most of neighbors will throw it away but the right and anti Muslim sentiments are surely rising.

That's probably the single biggest issue I have seen arising in last couple of years in Germany related to religious affairs; the crackdown on mosques in general and Turkish ones in particular. Number of mosques has gone down rapidly in last couple of years. Now, nobody knows for sure about the reasons for the closure but the popular belief is obviously that in most cases it was because of the concerns related to the supposed radical elements that might be flourishing there. Although in some cases, they have received warnings based on flaws in the design/operation of the building and complaints about noise from neighbors. Consequently, the ones that are still functioning have become pretty vigilant and mindful.

Your statement about anti-Muslim sentiment rising here is spot on but I would say that still the situation is far better than some of the neighboring Western/central European nations.
 
I decided on migrating to Germany when I first visited it in 2002 and fell in love with the place. It was either Germany or Romania (The Mrs being German/Romanian). She felt (still feels) more at home in Romania due to the devil may care attitude but I was someone who liked stability and the rule of law, especially after my rebellious years. Also it provided our daughter with better future possibilities and we did not want to uproot her from her homeland.

When I came I had the expertise to consultancy business between the Sheikhs (in the UAE) and Europe (Was Romania till then) but to succeed in Germany you have to learn the language. My wife is a lawyer specializing in German/Romanian law (runs her own construction company now)and we had/have a good income plus I had sufficient savings but when I arrived I enrolled in a Schnelllerner Kurs (Rapid Learning Course) for German which was 6 hours everyday for an year till I got my B2 degree but I also applied for part time jobs as I did not want to stay home and I knew that socializing would help me learn the language/pick up the little nuances and generally help understand the local culture faster.

I have worked as an apprentice to a Meister Piano builder (started off as a polisher) for 8 months, Packed, stored (got a Stapelchein license (forklift) for that) and readied tons of that stuff each day (especially during Christmas season) and then drove for a short stint (about 2 months) delivering packages for a venture we had started on the side but was unsuccessful.

Coming back on topic I did meet a lot of Pakistanis during that time among other various nationalities (Arabs and Eastern European, not many Indians though) and they were the most hard working bunch I met (most of them). Good thing was that due to the laws of the country and the regulations in place hard work is actually rewarded here unlike in Pakistan and many of them were satisfied with what they earned and didn't have to be wary about people cheating them plus they had the added benefit of having their health insurance etc paid.

My firm is doing very well now but I will never forget those experiences.

Inspiring post. Thanks for sharing. Keep on winning at life :)
 
Coincidentally and ironically got this pamphlet in the mail today. Don't think they saw my Muslim name or the Turkish Muslim name of my neighbor which is even funnier.

View attachment 82058

Basically it says to stop the construction of the biggest Turkish mosque here and that other mosques are used to indoctrinate, brainwash, radicalize the young etc.

I do however know that most of neighbors will throw it away but the right and anti Muslim sentiments are surely rising.

They've been rising for ever.

But the pleasant truth is most people see through this crap.

The other day, I had a talk with a far right supporter (their party didn't reach to 3000 votes last elections :yk ) in a bar (near Barcelona). So the man said: 'Muslims are invading EU, it's all a Zionist-Masonic conspiracy. Muslim women are having children whilst they are feeding Feminism to European women... bla bla bla.' -

Guy was a loser and everyone there reminded him so. I told him to find a woman and have six children to bring back the supremacy of white race :yk. Needless to say, massive lolz were had all around :yk
 
I don't consider folks working as a chefs or waiters as "successful" since those jobs are in most cases minimum wage.

It'll be a success when Pakistanis are working managerial level jobs in engineering companies or banking/financial management institutions.

So how many of you studied philosophy at school? :))

There’s a difference between an individual’s version of success and a society’s version of success. [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] was probably talking about the latter. I mean, if you follow philosophy you’re successful if you’re happy with your life. That’s how every individual should think like. But don’t expect the society to call you ‘successful’ just because of that. There are certain benchmarks in a society. And depending upon the society you live in or the people you interact with, these benchmarks can vary. If you don’t show the intent to improve and get better, you won’t be successful. I’ll have great respect for a man or woman who works hard and feeds his or her family. But I’m not going to call him or her ‘successful’. Similarly I may not respect a guy with a bad character even if he’s successful. Respect and success are two different things.

Wonderful post Mr Q.

Was a bit amusing to see so many people miss Syed's point.
 
Came across this article today. Logged in to PP and saw it being discussed here as well. Thought why not give my two cents about the topic and help add perspective to a thread that doesn't seem to have too many first hand experiences.

Talking strictly about engineering/IT sector, Pakistanis are going pretty nicely in Germany in general and Munich in particular. Especially the ones who have studied communication/IT at any of the top universities here, find it pretty easy to land a fairly good job even if they don't have adequate German speaking skills; telecom/power electronics/software sector has many big tech companies like Intel, Infineon, NXP semiconductor and they have pretty relaxing work environment with a multitude of nationalities working there so they are pretty receptive to English.

Almost all of my friends/acquaintances graduating from the aforementioned disciplines are either working in Munich or in some other large German city and are doing pretty good.

The people with other engineering background struggle wee bit more, partly because those sectors (Civil/Transportation/Power - to a lesser extent) are more 'German' in nature and hence require you to have sufficient language skills to enter them, and partly because Pakistanis can be found a bit wanting when it comes to learning German (although that's just my observation, although there are many guys I know who are speaking pretty good German even when they don't need it at their work place). So you can say that the two aspects are mutually related. If you can speak the language are technically good enough, you'll be snaffled in no time (Again know about such cases as well)!

Also, I know Pakistanis at the heart of a couple of startups here as well which again promotes the reputation of the country fellows.



Coming to the aspect of migrant workers doing good, that's a completely different topic. I'll probably share my opinion in detail in a separate post. But most of those who have come as 'migrants' have come through illegal means citing unsafe situation in the country or in some cases posing as Afghanis. In reality, they are economic migrants masquerading as political asylum seekers and as stated in the article, hail from Central Punjab (Gujrat, Sialkot). Yes, many of them adjust here quickly and get jobs of various nature but some of them are dodging the system as well and exploiting whatever 'feel-good' factor left, if any, for actual and deserving refugees.

Whether they are entitled to starting a new life here - having arrived here somehow ultimately - or not is something debatable and arguments can be made in their favor as well but I was expecting something about skilled labour performance in the article when I opened it but what I came across was slightly underwhelming for sure.

Munich is the place to be. In fact, over the last 2 years of me being here, I am seeing a big change with the city becoming more international.

I was out last night in the maxvordstadt area in a bar, and most of the bar was actually talking in English.

As I said in a previous sport, if you come here to do higher education, its not very difficult to find a job. I have hires loads of international students in my company over the last few months.
 
Maybe some have and maybe some even Syrians.

But in Pakistan there is little employment and from what Ive heard the wages are very very low.

Here in the UK there are thousands of low skilled jobs which can't be filled, even though the minimum wage has increased to £7.83. Its not great but not poor either.


Minimum wage per hour or per day ?
 
Thank you both for the kind words. Actually it was even harder as I had an established and flourishing business in Dubai but had to abruptly migrate due to some reasons and start from scratch at the age of 30 in a foreign country with a foreign language, foreign culture (culture part wasn't that big a deal though) etc, Romania would have been easier as I knew the language, have lived there for years and have a lot of relatives and friends from the wife's side but chose Germany after considering all options.

The good thing is that in such countries with hard work and a bit of luck one can actually realize their dreams.

had a very good classmate of mine, similar story to yours at some extent. Lost touch with him when he left for Romania to study from Dubai also.

Doubt youd be him as you sound much younger and I am talking about 90s.

Though regardless, chuffed to hear about your success and hardwork.
 
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had a very good classmate of mine, similar story to yours at some extent. Lost touch with him when he left for Romania to study from Dubai also.

Doubt youd be him as you sound much younger and I am talking about 90s.

Though regardless, chuffed to hear about your success and hardwork.

Thanks. Could be someone I know as I went there in 1995 at the age of 15.
 
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