Why can’t Pakistan decide on its fast bowlers?

[Slog]

Since the WC 2019 (only a year ago) we have played the following pacers:

Shaheen
Hasan Ali
Amir
Musa
Naseem
Hasnain
Irfan
Wahab Riaz

Any I miss? Way too many imo

 

[Mesozoic]

You missed Haris Rauf.

 

[Third Man]

They're not too many, in this age of three formats. What we need to do is to identify which bowlers to play in which formats. Having this many bowlers is an asset, even a requirement in this day and age, but you have to have clearly defined roles for each one and work on their skills accordingly.

 

[QalandarFan]

That's not necessarily a bad thing, right now is the time to experiment and find our best bowling attack before the T20I world cup. It also creates urgency within the bowlers to perform, knowing there are other options. Amir for example actually has competition now. Furthermore it's also allowed for rotation keeping bowlers fresh. However within a couple months here we need to pick our best 5-6 pacers and just stick with them into the world cup. For me it would be

1. Shaheen
2. Amir
3. Wahab
4. Hasan
5. Naseem
6. Hasnain

One of those guys will probably miss out on selection for the T20 World Cup but those are our 6 best bowlers in T20I's imo.

 

[Abid Z]

Since the WC 2019 (only a year ago) we have played the following pacers:

Shaheen
Hasan Ali
Amir
Musa
Naseem
Hasnain
Irfan
Wahab Riaz

Any I miss? Way too many imo

This is a really good point...why does Pakistan not have a settled fast bowling attack?

The answer I think can be found predominantly though not exclusively by considering the following factors

The grounds we play at versus lift
The grounds we play at versus seam and swing movement
The ability to beat the bat on both sides
The ability to maintain an attacking or containment role.
The compliment to our main bowlers Abbas and yasir
The fitness stamina speed and control of our bowlers.

When we consider all of the above we realise very few of Pakistan bowlers are up to the level on all fronts. for instance on drop in pitches in australasia with a kookaburra ball and small boundaries many of our seam bowlers would be cannon fodder unless they have the ability to beat the bat with pace, bowl with accuracy and variety. It’s a work in progress and you need a massive squad. Around at least 10 bowlers who are match ready

 

[Duckworth Lewis]

Height of stupidity is giving Irfan chance again.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Since the WC 2019 (only a year ago) we have played the following pacers:

Shaheen
Hasan Ali
Amir
Musa
Naseem
Hasnain
Irfan
Wahab Riaz

Any I miss? Way too many imo

shaheen - average to good test bowler
hasan- mediocre test bowler except in englund and n.z

amir - mediocre test bowler
musa - utter trash. woeful
naseem - below mediocre but not complete trash yet. potential to Improve is there but he lacks cricket IQ which is hard to develop.

husnain - utter trash test bowler
irfan - beyond trash
wahab riaz - workhorse but still severly mediocre.

in t20, wahab and rauf maybe the only standouts.Perhaps amir too but he is declining.


in odi; shaheen is good and so is amir and wahab to a lesser extent. rest are poor. None being above good barring amir.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Removing Musa and Irfan from the list, it really only boils down to:

Shaheen Shah
Hasan Ali
M Amir
Naseem Shah
M Abbas
M Hasnain
Wahab Riaz
Haris Rauf
Usman Shinwari

Hasan is injured, Naseem and Abbas are test specialists, Amir and Wahab are limited overs specialists, Shinwari is an ODI specialist, and Rauf and Hasnain are T20 specialists.

The roles seem pretty clearly defined to me. What’s the issue?

If anything, Pakistan is managing all its bowlers exceptionally well except for Shaheen Afridi.

 

[Mamoon]

How can you when you have only got 1 good fast bowler?

 

[Varun]

It's because Pakistan are under the delusion that they have God's given right to always carry the "best bowling attack ever seen", decades after the retirement of Wasim and Waqar - their last two such bowlers who could truly be placed in that category.

In the eternal hope of rekindling that flame, 17 to 19-year olds are para-dropped into the national side on the back of needless hype in the hope that they will be the greatest thing since sliced bread. When that predictably doesn't happen, instead of developing them to be potent, intelligent bowlers over the long-term, they are unceremoniously dropped. Then rinse and repeat.

Harsh but fair.

 

[Slog]

It's because Pakistan are under the delusion that they have God's given right to always carry the "best bowling attack ever seen", decades after the retirement of Wasim and Waqar - their last two such bowlers who could truly be placed in that category.

In the eternal hope of rekindling that flame, 17 to 19-year olds are para-dropped into the national side on the back of needless hype in the hope that they will be the greatest thing since sliced bread. When that predictably doesn't happen, instead of developing them to be potent, intelligent bowlers over the long-term, they are unceremoniously dropped. Then rinse and repeat.

Harsh but fair.

This is very true for most part(would include Akhtar, Asif and Amir pre ban in the elite list too).

And by picking young bowlers you are able to hype up their future potential with little evidence. Many of these same bowlers wouldn’t even get a second look if they were 25 year olds showing the same skill level. Just because they’re 18 doesn’t mean they should be judged differently. If you want to judge them as 18 year olds play Under 19 cricket.

 

[unemployedgm]

How can you when you have only got 1 good fast bowler?

Wrong Answer.

1. Pakistan can't decide on an attack for each format because we don't have an underlying bowling strategy.
2. We don't understand what skills are required to achieve that strategy.
3. We don't have a sound understanding of the talent at our disposal. (Past, Present Performance, and Future Performance)
4. We don't have people who actually understand what it takes to win a test match, a one day match, or a T20 match. No one understands why we win or why we lose.

And On and On and On

 

[shamaan]

That's not necessarily a bad thing, right now is the time to experiment and find our best bowling attack before the T20I world cup. It also creates urgency within the bowlers to perform, knowing there are other options. Amir for example actually has competition now. Furthermore it's also allowed for rotation keeping bowlers fresh. However within a couple months here we need to pick our best 5-6 pacers and just stick with them into the world cup. For me it would be

1. Shaheen
2. Amir
3. Wahab
4. Hasan
5. Naseem
6. Hasnain

One of those guys will probably miss out on selection for the T20 World Cup but those are our 6 best bowlers in T20I's imo.

I would go
shaheen
Rauf
Wahab
Naseem
Amir husnain

 

[Hasan123]

We love trying out new bowlers but we still keep picking Sarfraz and Malik no matter how they perform!

 

[shamaan]

We love trying out new bowlers but we still keep picking Sarfraz and Malik no matter how they perform!

Lol so true

 

[hitthestump]

Because Wasim and Waqar came out of thin air and we've spent the last 30 years trying to replicate that.

 

[coy0607]

You missed quite a few names

Faheem
Shinwari
Sohail Khan
Imran Khan
Rauf
Junaid
Abbas

Thats the first problem, Misbah/Waqar don't seem to have a plan. There's too many bowlers in the mix - need a more concentrated short list with 6-8 fast bowlers across the 3 formats.

Second, they shouldn't be willy nilly throwing players around formats (Naseem selected for T20 squad out of the blue, likewise Wahab selected in Tests squad). Need to develop a plan for each bowler for both international, and also for when they aren't on national duty

Waqar brags a lot about his coaching ability - yet to see anything substantial from him after many years of coaching

 

[Slog]

Because Wasim and Waqar came out of thin air and we've spent the last 30 years trying to replicate that.

This! So true! We have this delusion that the best pakiStani talents haven’t gotten the chance yet and are roaming around in the country

 

[Buffet]

Lack of quality. If bowlers are good then they will play for long time. The lineup won't be changed frequently. A team can still play not so great bowlers for long time, but it's not the norm. Team will eventually look to replace them.

Some time quality may be there, but you have to introduce them at right time. Old trend of just throwing young bowlers and hoping that one of them will click is not going to work all the time.

If young bowlers are good enough they should come after playing some time in domestic. That way you will only introduce bowlers who have at least proven in domestic. This won't ensure that you will get gun bowlers always, but chance of getting better bowlers will be higher.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

For tests, Shaheen, Naseem and Abbas
For ODIs, Shaheen, Amir and Hasnain
For T20s, Wahab, Haris and Amir/Hasnain/Hasan

 

[shamaan]

For tests
Shaheen naseem abbas sameen gull ehsan adil
Odis shaheen husnain rauf hassan ali
T20s shaheen wahab rauf husnain amir


Only shaheen can play all 3 formats but needs to be rested appropriately