Why did Hindus become Islamophobic?

[Local.Dada]

You are getting mixed up with Zionists and Jews: Zionism is an abhorrent political movement set up to expand the land of Israel..illegally. The hate for them is universal..not just Pakistanis….why can’t Pakistanis hate them? MANY Hindus also hate Muslims…it works both ways.

So you are saying that Muslims only hate extreme forms of Hindus and Jews (Hindutva and Zionism)? Ok.

By the same benchmark, why can’t you give the benefit of doubt that maybe Hindus also hate extreme radical forms of Islamists and their sympathizers?

We are even then right?

 

[Local.Dada]

But you gave a list of ONLY Muslim terrorists, and your list was going back decades, not "current day Jihadis" only.

If you are going to tell blatant lies contradicting your own quotes in the same thread, then continuing the discussion is pointless. You are not here to debate, you are only here to promote hindutva propaganda.

My list goes back from 1990s to “current era”. Did Pehelgam, Uri, Bondi beach, 26/11 etc type incidents happen in the 1500s?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

My list goes back from 1990s to “current era”. Did Pehelgam, Uri, Bondi beach, 26/11 etc type incidents happen in the 1500s?

Did you read the OP by any chance before we go any further?

 

[Stewie]

So you are saying that Muslims only hate extreme forms of Hindus and Jews (Hindutva and Zionism)? Ok.

By the same benchmark, why can’t you give the benefit of doubt that maybe Hindus also hate extreme radical forms of Islamists and their sympathizers?

We are even then right?

For your consideration, exhibit A, Post #239 of this thread. I am going to guess the next thing you will say is that the poster is a bigot and not representative of the entire Hindu community or posters on this forum?

Actually I will believe you if you say that. I happen to know quite a few decent hindus in real life whom I call friends. However, the stark hypocrisy of such posters as @rpant_gabba on this forum cannot be ignored. He claims to be an athiest but brings a sweeping negative stereotyping of Muslims here. It is a sad situation. I see a lot of Hindu posters use the benefit of anonymity to expose their true bigotry here.

For some Pakistanis, this forum is the only exposure to Hindus. How does that makes them feel about Hindus, I guess I dont have to explain that to you. Hence the topic of this thread.

 

[HalBass9]

You are getting mixed up with Zionists and Jews: Zionism is an abhorrent political movement set up to expand the land of Israel..illegally. The hate for them is universal..not just Pakistanis….why can’t Pakistanis hate them? MANY Hindus also hate Muslims…it works both ways.

You can say it a thousand times, but it’s not going to change anything. When people are set on justifying their hatred, they’ll hold onto whatever narrative helps them do that, even if it means pretending Muslims hate every Hindu.

The reality is, Muslims on this forum have said it over and over again, the criticism is directed at Hindutva, the bigoted, extremist ideology, not at Hindus as a whole. But that distinction keeps getting ignored, because it’s easier to generalize than to actually listen.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

For your consideration, exhibit A, Post #239 of this thread. I am going to guess the next thing you will say is that the poster is a bigot and not representative of the entire Hindu community or posters on this forum?

Actually I will believe you if you say that. I happen to know quite a few decent hindus in real life whom I call friends. However, the stark hypocrisy of such posters as @rpant_gabba on this forum cannot be ignored. He claims to be an athiest but brings a sweeping negative stereotyping of Muslims here. It is a sad situation. I see a lot of Hindu posters use the benefit of anonymity to expose their true bigotry here.

For some Pakistanis, this forum is the only exposure to Hindus. How does that makes them feel about Hindus, I guess I dont have to explain that to you. Hence the topic of this thread.

If you go back and read the OP, it is pretty clear that this is a genuine question. The Hindus I knew growing up were generally pretty easy going and forward looking, but since the age of the internet we have been exposed to a surprisingly well organised campaign of misinformation and hatred which seems to be spearheaded by mostly Hindus. That too, specifically Indian Hindus, since we don't see the same hostility from Sri Lankans for example.

That is why a genuine reflection on historical reasons for this would be enlightening.

 

[Stewie]

If you go back and read the OP, it is pretty clear that this is a genuine question. The Hindus I knew growing up were generally pretty easy going and forward looking, but since the age of the internet we have been exposed to a surprisingly well organised campaign of misinformation and hatred which seems to be spearheaded by mostly Hindus. That too, specifically Indian Hindus, since we don't see the same hostility from Sri Lankans for example.

That is why a genuine reflection on historical reasons for this would be enlightening.

I do believe that the anonymity factor of the internet does bring out the worst of people, and sometimes the truest nature of people. I also think that Hindus who have been settled in foreign lands and have built relations with Muslims there for years are a different breed compared to those living in India or those who have recently moved out India, because they still carry the burden of their bigotry.

The rise of Hindutva ideology in the last 10-15 years is really to blame. I did not see this issue as a college student back in the 90s.

 

[Local.Dada]

If you go back and read the OP, it is pretty clear that this is a genuine question. The Hindus I knew growing up were generally pretty easy going and forward looking, but since the age of the internet we have been exposed to a surprisingly well organised campaign of misinformation and hatred which seems to be spearheaded by mostly Hindus. That too, specifically Indian Hindus, since we don't see the same hostility from Sri Lankans for example.

That is why a genuine reflection on historical reasons for this would be enlightening.

I gave you the “historical reasons”. In fact recent historical reasons. My filter was from 90s assuming most posters here would be familiar since that decade. You didn’t like them

Also you are mistaken, the terrorist list I gave you is just a universal designated list by various groups that matter like US, EU, UK, UN etc. I didn’t filter it out by any religion. There are some communist groups too.

 

[Local.Dada]

I do believe that the anonymity factor of the internet does bring out the worst of people, and sometimes the truest nature of people. I also think that Hindus who have been settled in foreign lands and have built relations with Muslims there for years are a different breed compared to those living in India or those who have recently moved out India, because they still carry the burden of their bigotry.

The rise of Hindutva ideology in the last 10-15 years is really to blame. I did not see this issue as a college student back in the 90s.

Ah I see. That concerns you but not the rise of ISIS, Taliban. JEM, LET etc. etc etc because of course it’s someone else’s fault. Good to know

 

[Stewie]

Ah I see. That concerns you but not the rise of ISIS, Taliban. JEM, LET etc. because of course it’s someone else’s fault. Good to know

It all concerns us. If you create a thread about those concerns I will gladly contribute there. Let us not run on assumptions now.

Why would I not be concerned about the extremism when it kills and affects Pakistanis a whole lot more than it does you guys? I laugh at the irony of it at times. We have paid a much higher price in blood for that evil than you guys have. So quite frankly one should be extremely offended at your views on that. Our people fight that crap everyday and shed blood while you simply read about it on papers and whine about it on internt forums.

 

[Local.Dada]

It all concerns us. If you create a thread about those concerns I will gladly contribute there. Let us not run on assumptions now.

Why would I not be concerned about the extremism when it kills and affects Pakistanis a whole lot more than it does you guys? I laugh at the irony of it at times. We have paid a much higher price in blood for that evil than you guys have. So quite frankly one should be extremely offended at your views on that. Our people fight that crap everyday and shed blood while you simply read about it on papers and whine about it on internt forums.

good point. That seems to me like more Muslim terror groups are killing innocent Pakistanis. Are the BLA, Taliban, TTP etc Hindus? you are barking at the wrong tree then.

 

[Stewie]

good point. That seems to me like more Muslim terror groups are killing innocent Pakistanis. Are the BLA, Taliban, TTP etc Hindus? you are barking at the wrong tree then.

Thank you for at least admitting its a good point, unfortunately i cannot say the same about yours?

Is it a rule of some sort for Indians you can only worry about one evil at a time. If you worry about two or even mention more than one, what happens? Do you turn to stone?

 

[Local.Dada]

Thank you for at least admitting its a good point, unfortunately i cannot say the same about yours?

Is it a rule of some sort for Indians you can only worry about one evil at a time. If you worry about two or even mention more than one, what happens? Do you turn to stone?

Because the 2 problems are not even comparable. I don’t see any Hindu terrorists bombing any Muslim countries. In fact from what I see we only seem to have stellar relationships even with the most extreme Islamist regimes including Saudi, Afghanistan and Iran.

 

[Stewie]

Because the 2 problems are not even comparable. I don’t see any Hindu terrorists bombing any Muslim countries. In fact from what I see we only seem to have stellar relationships even with the most extreme Islamist regimes including Saudi, Afghanistan and Iran.

You are correct, Hindutva movement is only focusing on eradicating and upending the existing dynamic of Muslims in India, not outside. Those are two completely different issues. So why are ISIS and Al Qaeda even brought up in these debates regarding the evils of Hindutva with Indians is my question. You just did that yourself three posts ago.

 

[globetrotter]

1st you ppls should give answer whether muslim nations have unity amongst them?

 

[Local.Dada]

You are correct, Hindutva movement is only focusing on eradicating and upending the existing dynamic of Muslims in India, not outside. Those are two completely different issues. So why are ISIS and Al Qaeda even brought up in these debates regarding the evils of Hindutva with Indians is my question. You just did that yourself three posts ago.

Any numbers to back that claim? Last time I checked you told me there are more Muslims in India than Pak, that wasn’t the case in 1947. That’s not how genocide works.

Also just for records- Muslims have had a population growth spurt in Gujarat where they apparently got “genocided”

However what about the numbers of Kashmiri Pandits in Kashmir valley pre and post 1990? That according to you doesn’t qualify as genocide right?

India is a diverse country and has many social issues. It’s not a new thing that came up in 2014, it was always there. However we just keep moving along. That’s been the case since 1947 or even before .

How come you guys overlook stats and data and focus on rhetoric?

Also as you said, Muslim terrorists are killing Pakistanis not Hindu terrorists. Let us worry about our Indian Muslims. None of your business. In fact you should be concerned about Pakistani Hindus and Xtians as I am assuming they qualify to be your people (if you consider them that way). Sure if Indian Muslims ever reach out to Pak, feel free to give them refugee status. Let us see how many want that outreach program lol.

 

[Stewie]

Any numbers to back that claim? Last time I checked you told me there are more Muslims in India than Pak, that wasn’t the case in 1947. That’s not how genocide works.

Also just for records- Muslims have had a population growth spurt in Gujarat where they apparently got “genocided”

However what about the numbers of Kashmiri Pandits in Kashmir valley pre and post 1990? That according to you doesn’t qualify as genocide right?

India is a diverse country and has many social issues. It’s not a new thing that came up in 2014, it was always there. However we just keep moving along. That’s been the case since 1947 or even before .

How come you guys overlook stats and data and focus on rhetoric?

Also as you said, Muslim terrorists are killing Pakistanis not Hindu terrorists. Let us worry about our Indian Muslims. None of your business. In fact you should be concerned about Pakistani Hindus and Xtians as I am assuming they qualify to be your people (if you consider them that way). Sure if Indian Muslims ever reach out to Pak, feel free to give them refugee status. Let us see how many want that outreach program lol.

So you would need actual numbers before you can start worrying about or even talking about the problem? Is that what you are trying to say? Does there need to be a massive genocide or acts of terror to happen first before a problem can be indentified? I have shared multiple neutral citations from world insitutions on the problem but apparently that is also not good enough that there is IN FACT a problem in India.

Can non Indians not even mention it? Who gave the Indians the right to even tell anyone they cant worry about it? Just because you guys use similar tactics to treat muslims at home, you think it will work on non Indian muslims? We are free to criticize or discuss whatever, or whomever we want. We are not dictated by whatever is the latest directive coming down form your Hindutva leadership.

Last but not least, in case we are all forgetting, I think it might be worth mentioning this is a Pakistani forum, so it is amusing an Indian hindu will come here telling us what we can or cannot talk about.

Funny!

 

[Local.Dada]

1st you ppls should give answer whether muslim nations have unity amongst them?

Afghan friends with India be it democratic govt or Taliban

Middle East a strong partner for India be it Saudi, UAE, Oman, Qatar

Iran despite a war situation allows Indian ships due to a stellar relationship over the years.

Egypt- never had an issue with India. Again stellar relation ship.

Now yes Turkey has had recent issues with India but that’s also because India has reached out to Greece and Cyprus as Turkey supported Pak on Kashmir issue.

Only some random Pakistani or Bangladeshi thinks India is against Muslims and starts rage baiting.

I can name 5 Indian Muslims of higher stature for every 1 Pakistani Muslim from the same field, be it sports, science , business or arts.

 

[Local.Dada]

So you would need actual numbers before you can start worrying about or even talking about the problem?

World doesn’t work on some empty rhetoric my friend.

Yea, extremely funny arguments!!!

 

[HalBass9]

1st you ppls should give answer whether muslim nations have unity amongst them?

bhai, one genius (@Local.Dada) is enough for this thread.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

1st you ppls should give answer whether muslim nations have unity amongst them?

I think there are already threads for that, in fact I created one of them recently. Are you saying we should have no other threads until we have finished all debate in that one?

 

[Local.Dada]

I think there are already threads for that, in fact I created one of them recently. Are you saying we should have no other threads until we have finished all debate in that one?

Did you have any learnings from it? It seems useless and repetitive if you didn’t .

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Did you have any learnings from it? It seems useless and repetitive if you didn’t .

Yes I did.

 

[globetrotter]

Also answer .....

When non Muslim country (Israel) killed Muslims(Palestine), then there vigorous reaction from Muslim countries and there will demonstration by muslims all around the world....

Whereas whem Muslim Country (Pakistan) killed muslims of another country (Afghanistan) then all keep quite. No condemnation, no demonstration by muslims.

Why such hypocrisy exist in Muslim world?

 

[Stewie]

World doesn’t work on some empty rhetoric my friend.

Yea, extremely funny arguments!!!

Au contraire, the world is already talking about it. You can keep your head buried in the sand. Thats your choice.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

@Human786 @MP2011 @The Bald Eagle @Major @Rana @HalBass9

https://twitter.com/x/status/2041766796227960955

 

[The Bald Eagle]

@Human786 @MP2011 @The Bald Eagle @Major @Rana @HalBass9

https://twitter.com/x/status/2041766796227960955

Lol their hatred knows no bound. Unbelievable

 

[SherWaqar]

@Human786 @MP2011 @The Bald Eagle @Major @Rana @HalBass9

https://twitter.com/x/status/2041766796227960955

What on earth…..

 

[uppercut]

You are correct, Hindutva movement is only focusing on eradicating and upending the existing dynamic of Muslims in India, not outside.

So far what is the worst unprovoked violence that YOU hold the Hindutva responsibile for in India ? What is approx death toll and how many suicide bombers , how many genocides, how many car bombs, how many instances of lets-strip-and-check-if-circumcised-before-killing etc etc etc?

Those are two completely different issues. So why are ISIS and Al Qaeda even brought up in these debates regarding the evils of Hindutva with Indians is my question. You just did that yourself three posts ago.

Because of the question that is posed right in the title of this thread. oh wait according to you Muslims are perhaps the most innocent people who never hurt a fly fired a shot in anger

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

@Human786 @MP2011 @The Bald Eagle @Major @Rana @HalBass9

https://twitter.com/x/status/2041766796227960955

The pig looks like he thinks he could have done better.

 

[topspin]

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Indian freshies are something else.

 

[Stewie]

So far what is the worst unprovoked violence that YOU hold the Hindutva responsibile for in India ? What is approx death toll and how many suicide bombers , how many genocides, how many car bombs, how many instances of lets-strip-and-check-if-circumcised-before-killing etc etc etc?



Because of the question that is posed right in the title of this thread. oh wait according to you Muslims are perhaps the most innocent people who never hurt a fly fired a shot in anger

Thats easy, you could have googled it yourself:

• 1992-1993 Mumbai/All-India Riots: Following the destruction of the Babri Mosque, widespread violence occurred. Estimates of Muslim deaths in Mumbai alone range up to 900, with many killed by police and mobs.
• 2002 Gujarat Riots: Following the burning of a train in Godhra, state-wide violence targeted Muslims. Official estimates are over 1,000, while independent reports estimate closer to 2,000 deaths.
• 2013 Muzaffarnagar Riots: Clashes in Uttar Pradesh resulted in over 60 deaths, mostly Muslims, and displaced thousands.
• 2020 Delhi Riots: Communal violence in Northeast Delhi, often targeting Muslim businesses and homes, left over 40 dead.
• Cow Vigilantism & Hate Crimes: A 2019 report noted that at least 44 people, mostly Muslims, were killed by cow protection groups between 2015 and 2018. Another source states 90% of religion-based hate crimes between 2009 and 2019 occurred after 2014.

Now let us look at deaths caused by Muslim extremist groups:

• 2025 Developments: An Islamist terrorist attack on tourists near Pahalgam in Jammu and Kashmir on April 22, 2025, resulted in 26 civilian deaths, according to reports. The Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) proxy, The Resistance Front (TRF), was initially linked to the attack.
• Recent Years (2022-2024): In 2022, terrorism-related incidents in Jammu & Kashmir resulted in 152 deaths, including 97 alleged terrorists, 30 security personnel, and 14 civilians, while in 2023, there were 117 deaths in J&K.
• Historically: Data from 2005 to July 2016 indicated over 707 lives were lost in various terror strikes across India. Major attacks included the 2008 Mumbai attacks (166 fatalities) and various bombings blamed on groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM), and Hizbul Mujahideen.

Conclusion: Hindutva exrtemists have caused more Muslims deaths in India than a radical Muslim outfit. Even Gujarat riots that did not include as such a terrorist Islamic outfit and mostly they were just local Muslims, the death toll was something like Hindus 254, Muslims 790.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Thats easy, you could have googled it yourself:

• 1992-1993 Mumbai/All-India Riots: Following the destruction of the Babri Mosque, widespread violence occurred. Estimates of Muslim deaths in Mumbai alone range up to 900, with many killed by police and mobs.
• 2002 Gujarat Riots: Following the burning of a train in Godhra, state-wide violence targeted Muslims. Official estimates are over 1,000, while independent reports estimate closer to 2,000 deaths.
• 2013 Muzaffarnagar Riots: Clashes in Uttar Pradesh resulted in over 60 deaths, mostly Muslims, and displaced thousands.
• 2020 Delhi Riots: Communal violence in Northeast Delhi, often targeting Muslim businesses and homes, left over 40 dead.
• Cow Vigilantism & Hate Crimes: A 2019 report noted that at least 44 people, mostly Muslims, were killed by cow protection groups between 2015 and 2018. Another source states 90% of religion-based hate crimes between 2009 and 2019 occurred after 2014.

Now let us look at deaths caused by Muslim extremist groups:

• 2025 Developments: An Islamist terrorist attack on tourists near Pahalgam in Jammu and Kashmir on April 22, 2025, resulted in 26 civilian deaths, according to reports. The Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) proxy, The Resistance Front (TRF), was initially linked to the attack.
• Recent Years (2022-2024): In 2022, terrorism-related incidents in Jammu & Kashmir resulted in 152 deaths, including 97 alleged terrorists, 30 security personnel, and 14 civilians, while in 2023, there were 117 deaths in J&K.
• Historically: Data from 2005 to July 2016 indicated over 707 lives were lost in various terror strikes across India. Major attacks included the 2008 Mumbai attacks (166 fatalities) and various bombings blamed on groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM), and Hizbul Mujahideen.

Conclusion: Hindutva exrtemists have caused more Muslims deaths in India than a radical Muslim outfit. Even Gujarat riots that did not include as such a terrorist Islamic outfit and mostly they were just local Muslims, the death toll was something like Hindus 254, Muslims 790.

Bro, what have you done? Now these Modites will claim that it is false info, it was Muslim terrorists that started it, and all innocent Hindu activists were cleared by Indian courts etc.

 

[Stewie]

Bro, what have you done? Now these Modites will claim that it is false info, it was Muslim terrorists that started it, and all innocent Hindu activists were cleared by Indian courts etc.

They will shamelessly challenge the veracity of these stats independently confirmed and verified. I know thats their schtick.

Or they will claim "you started it".

Of course, we have all seen it before.

 

[HalBass9]

@Human786 @MP2011 @The Bald Eagle @Major @Rana @HalBass9

https://twitter.com/x/status/2041766796227960955

She really pulled a page straight out of the @Local.Dada & @globetrotter playbook, take absolute nonsense, sprinkle some confidence on it, and call it logic. It’s like watching someone put lipstick on a pig and then argue it’s ready for a Vogue cover shoot.

 

[Vikram1989]

Do you know what hajj subsidy exactly is and what does it cover ?

As per indian gov site,

.https://www.pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=2071944&reg=3&lang=2

The Haj subsidy, which aimed to offset travel costs for pilgrims from India to Saudi Arabia, increased from Rs. 10.51 crore in 1994 to Rs. 836.56 crore in 2012-13. However, the subsidy was gradually reduced and completely abolished for Haj 2018.


As per al Jazeera,

India ends government subsidies for Hajj pilgrimage

Originally subsidies for Hajj helped poorer sections of the community go on the pilgrimage many could not afford.

www.aljazeera.com

Air India was getting the subsidy’
Starting in 1954, the Indian government has for decades offered subsidies amounting to billions of rupees to poor Muslims wanting to perform Hajj. In 2016, the sum was about $75m, down from about $100m in 2013, according to official data.

 

[Local.Dada]

@Human786 @MP2011 @The Bald Eagle @Major @Rana @HalBass9

https://twitter.com/x/status/2041766796227960955

ironic that if the court approves this, the pig will have a more legal status and papers than the guy posting it

 

[uppercut]

I will go through your article and verses quoted there on the weekend. Because you made a academic reply and that is appreciated. I do not want to comment without reading .

Sure ... pls note the sacred texts are just one part of it. You can also see that in practice in India where for example cows are walked thru the house during house warming ceremonies in India and many religious events involve cows.

Now the second part of your comment where you compared an animal with the Quran and prophet is not valid. Quran is a religious book of Muslims , it can be compared with Gita. ( Though my view would be Vedas) .

Prophet being a human can be compared to Ram , if that was the case I would agree with you 100 % .

Its actually the other way round. The stature of a Cow is literally equal to that of God in Hinduism .. which is why we worship them unlike say a pig which is actually reviled in your religion yet most Islamic countries actually ban pork.

Beef is consumed throughout the world and also in India by a lot of people. It's not a new phenomena.

Abortion is Legal in numerous parts of the world including some states within the US itself.... doesn't mean that some states in the US cannot have laws banning abortion. Similarly wearing Burqa is not normal for most women in the world. Doesn't mean that Muslims have to abandon that practice (and I could go on and one with such contradictions from practically every religion) These are religious beliefs you cannot subject them to a logic test.

 

[uppercut]

Thats easy, you could have googled it yourself:

• 1992-1993 Mumbai/All-India Riots: Following the destruction of the Babri Mosque, widespread violence occurred. Estimates of Muslim deaths in Mumbai alone range up to 900, with many killed by police and mobs.

Sure lets go thru each one of the incidents you listed. So first the 1992-1993 riots. What was the root cause for that incident according to you ?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

ironic that if the court approves this, the pig will have a more legal status and papers than the guy posting it

DukkarDada, is that how you also got legal status and papers in America? Congratulations.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

She really pulled a page straight out of the @Local.Dada & @globetrotter playbook, take absolute nonsense, sprinkle some confidence on it, and call it logic. It’s like watching someone put lipstick on a pig and then argue it’s ready for a Vogue cover shoot.

DukkerDada got hurt by your post bro. Itna bhi sach nahi bolna hota. Rone hi baith gaya bechara.

 

[Local.Dada]

DukkarDada, is that how you also got legal status and papers in America? Congratulations.

I do not need it that way. get to work, you got a pathway now lmao.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I do not need it that way. get to work, you got a pathway now lmao.

You got triggered pretty badly. You are crying

 

[Local.Dada]

You got triggered pretty badly. You are crying

Nah! Everyone can see who got triggered. You went to the corners of the internt and found a random tweet to try and give some relief to your pals.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Nah! Everyone can see who got triggered. You went to the corners of the internt and found a random tweet to try and give some relief to your pals.

I live in India, I don't have to go digging into corners to find stuff like this. But it's interesting how triggered you got even though I shared it without tagging you.

 

[BouncerGuy]

STOP HAVING PERSONAL CHATS HERE.

STAY ON TOPIC NOW

 

[Banda298]

Jealousy.

Muslims have an identity and bestowed an identity upon India, whereas Hinduism lacks both an identity and cornerstone - in summary what Hinduism failed to achieve in 5000 years (and still failing), Islam achieved in 100 years.

World knows what that identity is . Thats why many M countries visa entry is banned , face multiple xhecks and movies need to be made that i m khan and im not T.

U actually pwned urself. Hinduism is older than 5k years still thriving with no visa bans while Ms get banned in less than last 40 years

 

[Banda298]

You are thinking with the libertarian atheist mindset bro, where everyone must all be on the same page with feminism, LGBTQ, etc.

We Muslims believe in multiculturalism, therefore haram only applies to us, not an infidel. So if Tommy Gubbins wants to eat a pork sandwich in his own home, then that is not our business.

Muslims believe in multicultures ? Then where did christians in lebanon , europe bosnia , Sun worshippers in egypt, zoroasters in Iran , Hindus in Afgh , Pak ,Kashmir go ?

Almost all native cultures in invaded regions were wiped out except for India.

On the reverse , Muslims expanded faster than Hindus in india ...

Step out of ur delulus , world knows only Hindus and to some degree Christianity let other cultures prosper

 

[Banda298]

Lets break the premise of what Islamophobia actually means and where it actually exists-

1. To say any Religion hates another religion , you need evidence that either one of the religion has tried or succeeded in restricting or eliminating the hated religion in question .

So now , Muslims have grown 43 percent in population from 1947 until now in India ....so that completely destroys any funny ideas that Hindus hate or limit muslims in terms of growth or any other way .

Many Hindu women marry into Islam , converting , so where does the phobia ho then ?


2. If Hindus truly are Iphobic , would India as a Hindu major nation elect a Muslim president APJ Kalam ? He was a most revered man by all children men women oldies

3. Would Hindus allow most of their lucrative bollywood industry to be dominated by Islamic actors , actresses , going on to sponsor even Aman ki Aasha , for India Pak peace , movies like Husna ,
With millions worshipping the Islamic actors like Dilip Kumar , God singers like Mohd rafi over Kishore kumar , and these days Salman Srk Aamir etc ?

4. Would Hindus permit Islamic fighters in their armies if they hated them ? No ...

5. Would hindus permit Islamic warriors to lead their armed force regiments if they hated them no.

But sadly No Hindus aren't Islamophobic as Lt Zamiruddin Shah rose to deputy army chief post , Col Sofiya Qureshi led UN regiments , and likes of legends like Syed Atta hasnain
Mohd zaki
Abdul Hamid was the star of 1965 war
Lt gen PM Hafiz
Lt gen Zaki

And countless others rose to chief positions in Indian Army and serve as I write.

6. The prospering of numerous Islamic schools of theology in Deoband , and other islamic centres in India host more Islamic students from world over .

If hindus truly hated muslims would we permit Islamic theology and teachings ??

Now reverse those points and tell me where did the Hindus in Pakistan disappear , are there any prominent hindu leaders jn pak ? Any president ? Any peace movie on Hindus ? Any movie trying to aman ki aasha from ur side ? Any hindu general in army ?

Well I just destroyed whole thread didnt i ?

Don't delete this post.

Even in today's polarised india , 60- 90 pc of Hindus are fairly tolerant of Muslims. Fringe groups exist everywhere . Stop extrapolating that

 

[Stewie]

Sure lets go thru each one of the incidents you listed. So first the 1992-1993 riots. What was the root cause for that incident according to you ?

You know Bin Laden and Al Qaeda used to give us a long list of reasons for their actions as well. Most terrorists and despotic ideologies try to justify their actions one way or another.

If you are not the instigator, it does not give you the right to wipe out hundreds of people extra judiciously. Hindu extremists have caused more death of Muslims than Muslim radicals have caused in India, thats the bottomline.

You can build a dozen strawmen to argue against these facts but they wont change.

 

[Energy]

I strongly believe one of the reasons why hindus don't like muslims is because the latter refuse to join them in the below holy ritual.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2042561161477132781

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Muslims believe in multicultures ? Then where did christians in lebanon , europe bosnia , Sun worshippers in egypt, zoroasters in Iran , Hindus in Afgh , Pak ,Kashmir go ?

Almost all native cultures in invaded regions were wiped out except for India.

On the reverse , Muslims expanded faster than Hindus in india ...

Step out of ur delulus , world knows only Hindus and to some degree Christianity let other cultures prosper

They weren't wiped out, they converted to Islam because it was better than what they had previously. Islam is the only culture these days where it is ok to be different. No one will insult Christians or Hindus in Muslim countries or expect them to become Muslims against their will.

Britain was always fairly multicultural but these days there is pressure on Muslim children to adhere to the liberal western views including homosexuality, special protection for certain religious groups etc. Now let's get this right, any country is entitled to preach what they want, but then you can't still brag about multiculturalism.

 

[HalBass9]

Lets break the premise of what Islamophobia actually means and where it actually exists-

1. To say any Religion hates another religion , you need evidence that either one of the religion has tried or succeeded in restricting or eliminating the hated religion in question .

So now , Muslims have grown 43 percent in population from 1947 until now in India ....so that completely destroys any funny ideas that Hindus hate or limit muslims in terms of growth or any other way .

Many Hindu women marry into Islam , converting , so where does the phobia ho then ?


2. If Hindus truly are Iphobic , would India as a Hindu major nation elect a Muslim president APJ Kalam ? He was a most revered man by all children men women oldies

3. Would Hindus allow most of their lucrative bollywood industry to be dominated by Islamic actors , actresses , going on to sponsor even Aman ki Aasha , for India Pak peace , movies like Husna ,
With millions worshipping the Islamic actors like Dilip Kumar , God singers like Mohd rafi over Kishore kumar , and these days Salman Srk Aamir etc ?

4. Would Hindus permit Islamic fighters in their armies if they hated them ? No ...

5. Would hindus permit Islamic warriors to lead their armed force regiments if they hated them no.

But sadly No Hindus aren't Islamophobic as Lt Zamiruddin Shah rose to deputy army chief post , Col Sofiya Qureshi led UN regiments , and likes of legends like Syed Atta hasnain
Mohd zaki
Abdul Hamid was the star of 1965 war
Lt gen PM Hafiz
Lt gen Zaki

And countless others rose to chief positions in Indian Army and serve as I write.

6. The prospering of numerous Islamic schools of theology in Deoband , and other islamic centres in India host more Islamic students from world over .

If hindus truly hated muslims would we permit Islamic theology and teachings ??

Now reverse those points and tell me where did the Hindus in Pakistan disappear , are there any prominent hindu leaders jn pak ? Any president ? Any peace movie on Hindus ? Any movie trying to aman ki aasha from ur side ? Any hindu general in army ?

Well I just destroyed whole thread didnt i ?

Don't delete this post.

Even in today's polarised india , 60- 90 pc of Hindus are fairly tolerant of Muslims. Fringe groups exist everywhere . Stop extrapolating that

The US has a relatively small Muslim population, but those who choose to be Islamophobic tend to hold onto that mindset regardless. At the same time, the country has elected Muslim leaders and is known for its multiculturalism and interfaith communities, yet even that doesn’t change the views of people determined to remain Islamophobic.

Ultimately, it’s not for outsiders to dismiss the experiences of others. If Muslims in India overwhelmingly feel they face discrimination, whether in housing or everyday life, that perspective deserves to be acknowledged. Denying it outright only ignores the reality many people are describing.

 

[Banda298]

If you are not the instigator, it does not give you the right to wipe out hundreds of people extra judiciously. Hindu extremists have caused more death of Muslims than Muslim radicals have caused in India, thats the bottomline

Lmao . You talk of hundreds .

If I start counting the numbers of Hindus massacred since 800 ad , over the region that gave it the name Hindu Kush( yes u can google it's sanskrit meaning ) , it lies very much in your lands today .

It means the land where Hindus were exterminated .

Leave that , let's examine the number of Hindus slain by a little over 600 years of Islamic rule . Don't be surprised , it' runs well over in millions , with lakhs of slaves male females children all transported to what is Afgh Pak today .

Hindu extremist is an oxymoron . It's a little too late reactionary group that began in 90s 2000s in response to the centuries of almost near wipe out in Afgh Pak and all attempts in India. Despite all that it took them several decades to go extremist vs the groups that tried to convert , enslave or terminate them .

It's like a drop vs an ocean

 

[Banda298]

The US has a relatively small Muslim population, but those who choose to be Islamophobic tend to hold onto that mindset regardless. At the same time, the country has elected Muslim leaders and is known for its multiculturalism and interfaith communities, yet even that doesn’t change the views of people determined to remain Islamophobic.

Ultimately, it’s not for outsiders to dismiss the experiences of others. If Muslims in India overwhelmingly feel they face discrimination, whether in housing or everyday life, that perspective deserves to be acknowledged. Denying it outright only ignores the reality many people are describing.

Why drag Usa in between India and Pakistan . USA is not a Muslim majority country by any means nor will it ever become one.

USA will never promote Muslims to army heads , movie star god levels , permit islamic theology , sponsor haj like India does.

The more u try to push a false perspective , the more it will fall.

The world today is more polarised than ever , so yes inter religious strife is getting common everywhere . But India isn't exrerminating it's minorties like some countries have already done

 

[uppercut]

You know Bin Laden and Al Qaeda used to give us a long list of reasons for their actions as well. Most terrorists and despotic ideologies try to justify their actions one way or another.

If you are not the instigator, it does not give you the right to wipe out hundreds of people extra judiciously. Hindu extremists have caused more death of Muslims than Muslim radicals have caused in India, thats the bottomline.

You can build a dozen strawmen to argue against these facts but they wont change.

Just answer the question pls

 

[Banda298]

They weren't wiped out, they converted to Islam because it was better than what they had previously. Islam is the only culture these days where it is ok to be different. No one will insult Christians or Hindus in Muslim countries or expect them to become Muslims against their will.

Britain was always fairly multicultural but these days there is pressure on Muslim children to adhere to the liberal western views including homosexuality, special protection for certain religious groups etc. Now let's get this right, any country is entitled to preach what they want, but then you can't still brag about multiculturalism.

If something is state sponsored doesn't mean it's better .

Aurangzeb had departments for religious conversion , incentives etc . Even those in charge started bringing fake evidences of conversion to please him .

The application of Jizya was prevalent in almost all new Islamic kingdoms.

When faced with near death economically , and in other ways who wouldn't change to save his family.

It's only India that had the oldest vibrant religion that bore the brunt of many invasions and yet stands strong today

 

[LordJames]

Hindu's are generally weak people who like to blame others for their problems, their security failed them big time terrorists can enter and leave India freely with no issue what's so ever. such a napunsak country because they couldn't catch real terrorists they started picking fights with everyone else and fighting everyone else and blaming everyone else for their specially Muslims for problems they can't solve at home but at the same time they like licking backsides of Arab Muslims

Overwhelming majority of Hindus do not own their religion or belief in public, they own being Indian because its unmistakable and they can't hide it.

But when it comes to their beliefs or ideologies they hide! Here in America, you will hardly find a single Hindu at workplace who will publicly own that:

1. They consider cow as (or near) a deity
2. Cow Urine as sacred

Americans are beef eating people and they will regard both of these as absurd so Hindus just hide behind a "Vegetarian" label...

I would be happy to be educated, please post Public acknowledgement in deep South of Hindus owning both these beliefs in America.

 

[Stewie]

Just answer the question pls

Sorry, i dont answer to terrorist sympathisers.

 

[HalBass9]

Why drag Usa in between India and Pakistan . USA is not a Muslim majority country by any means nor will it ever become one.

USA will never promote Muslims to army heads , movie star god levels , permit islamic theology , sponsor haj like India does.

The more u try to push a false perspective , the more it will fall.

The world today is more polarised than ever , so yes inter religious strife is getting common everywhere . But India isn't exrerminating it's minorties like some countries have already done

Except Israel, which India support, no other country is ethnic cleansing.

Muslims of India narrative matter, not yours.

 

[uppercut]

Sorry, i dont answer to terrorist sympathisers.

Which would be you ... because this is the sequence of events that lead upto to the 92-93 riots :

1 Muslims refuse to give up the Babri Mosque site which was built by demolishing a Ram temple ( one of the most sacred temples in Hinduism )
2. Hindus file court case - offer to settle the dispute in a civilized manner and keep try it for decades
3. Muslims simply do not yield
4. Finally in 1992 the Hindu vigilante groups take matters into their own hands and demolish the mosque
5. Riots follow as Muslims are upset that the Mosque that stood squarely on a Temple was destroyed and for good measure more evidence surfaces from the rubble that the site indeed used to be a temple.

So now considering that you still hold Hindus responsible for the loss of life it is very obvious that Muslims simply have a completely opposite sense of right and wrong ( to put it very mildly )

 

[Local.Dada]

Overwhelming majority of Hindus do not own their religion or belief in public, they own being Indian because its unmistakable and they can't hide it.

But when it comes to their beliefs or ideologies they hide! Here in America, you will hardly find a single Hindu at workplace who will publicly own that:

1. They consider cow as (or near) a deity
2. Cow Urine as sacred

Americans are beef eating people and they will regard both of these as absurd so Hindus just hide behind a "Vegetarian" label...

I would be happy to be educated, please post Public acknowledgement in deep South of Hindus owning both these beliefs in America.

Generalizing Hindus to just cow urine etc is equivalent of generalizing all Muslims into practices like 4 wives, Halala etc. or the guy who doesn’t fear wearing the bomb or scared of the bomb unless it’s a champagne cork.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Which would be you ... because this is the sequence of events that lead upto to the 92-93 riots :

1 Muslims refuse to give up the Babri Mosque site which was built by demolishing a Ram temple ( one of the most sacred temples in Hinduism )
2. Hindus file court case - offer to settle the dispute in a civilized manner and keep try it for decades
3. Muslims simply do not yield
4. Finally in 1992 the Hindu vigilante groups take matters into their own hands and demolish the mosque
5. Riots follow as Muslims are upset that the Mosque that stood squarely on a Temple was destroyed and for good measure more evidence surfaces from the rubble that the site indeed used to be a temple.

So now considering that you still hold Hindus responsible for the loss of life it is very obvious that Muslims simply have a completely opposite sense of right and wrong ( to put it very mildly )

Did court ever order Muslims to vacate Babri Mosque before 1992 and if court did so was it not challenged later?

 

[Local.Dada]

Did court ever order Muslims to vacate Babri Mosque before 1992 and if court did so was it not challenged later?

Lahore- Karachi had a lot of temples. In fact my family deity/ temple is in Karachi and I have seen the state of it. I can show you grand looking mosques in India tier 2 cities, can you show the same when it comes to temples in Pak:

Mind you even if you don’t believe in religion or idol worship is haraam, some of these temples could have had unesco heritage status due to how ancient they are.

 

[HalBass9]

Keep in mind when discussing Hindutva in a religious context, many of its loudest voices show little real understanding of Islam or Pakistan. Their views often seem shaped more by selective narratives in Indian media than by any genuine effort to learn. That lack of engagement breeds a kind of reflexive hostility toward Muslims, one that tends to surface clearly in the tone and substance of their comments.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Lahore- Karachi had a lot of temples. In fact my family deity/ temple is in Karachi and I have seen the state of it. I can show you grand looking mosques in India tier 2 cities, can you show the same when it comes to temples in Pak:

Mind you even if you don’t believe in religion or idol worship is haraam, some of these temples could have had unesco heritage status due to how ancient they are.

I condemn the destruction of temples unequivocally, go ahead and please do the same for Babri and dozens of other mosques

 

[uppercut]

Did court ever order Muslims to vacate Babri Mosque before 1992 and if court did so was it not challenged later?

The court case was still pending when the Mosque was destroyed but there was no doubt whatsoever that it was built on top of a temple as the temple pillars with Hindu architecture style which is completely different and incongruent to the style in which that Mosque was built were visible in plain sight even when the mosque was around.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If something is state sponsored doesn't mean it's better .

Aurangzeb had departments for religious conversion , incentives etc . Even those in charge started bringing fake evidences of conversion to please him .

The application of Jizya was prevalent in almost all new Islamic kingdoms.

When faced with near death economically , and in other ways who wouldn't change to save his family.

It's only India that had the oldest vibrant religion that bore the brunt of many invasions and yet stands strong today

Jizya is often misunderstood, in Muslim lands it was just a different form of taxation as non-Muslims were exempt from war duty and other forms of taxation that Muslims had to pay. So what if there was a department for religious conversion under Aurangzeb, it was his duty as a leader to enable non-Muslims to become Muslim. It was still a choice at the end of the day.

 

[Local.Dada]

I condemn the destruction of temples unequivocally, go ahead and please do the same for Babri and dozens of other mosques

Babri was the only mosque that was demolished by a mob. Most you see are mazaars which are illegal encroachments often done for road widening. Even small temples that popped up later and have no historical significance have been demolished by municipalities. Even Saudi and other Arab countries do that.

Again just saying you condemn is only good if you realize the ratio is 1:1000 and take the high road. What is the saying have your cake and eat it too? Doesn’t work that way. The balance is definitely skewed

 

[Local.Dada]

Keep in mind when discussing Hindutva in a religious context, many of its loudest voices show little real understanding of Islam or Pakistan. Their views often seem shaped more by selective narratives in Indian media than by any genuine effort to learn. That lack of engagement breeds a kind of reflexive hostility toward Muslims, one that tends to surface clearly in the tone and substance of their comments.

The terror attack in India lists and the designated terror outfit list I posted is not from “Godi” media.

Would you like me to point you to the sources to fact check yourself.

 

[Vikram1989]

The court case was still pending when the Mosque was destroyed but there was no doubt whatsoever that it was built on top of a temple as the temple pillars with Hindu architecture style which is completely different and incongruent to the style in which that Mosque was built were visible in plain sight even when the mosque was around.

Even then the chief archaeological officer of the babri masjid, k.k Mohammed said there were total 40 muslims among the 120 members to dig the artefacts. As per him in his autobiography, after viewing the evidence every muslim worker was mumbling it was an unnecessary issue and time waste . He clearly attributed the issue to leftists.even after the evidence,leftists said authorities have shifted the 12 tonne stupa from alahabad to ayodhya.so again ASI shown the stupa from alahabad to prevent further violence.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I strongly believe one of the reasons why hindus don't like muslims is because the latter refuse to join them in the below holy ritual.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2042561161477132781

Wow. What's going on here? @uppercut @Local.Dada @Devadwal @globetrotter

 

[uppercut]

The terror attack in India lists and the designated terror outfit list I posted is not from “Godi” media.

Would you like me to point you to the sources to fact check yourself.

just so you know .... you are trying to engage someone who thinks and believes Hamas and Hezbollah are freedom fighters no different from Gandhi and Mandela, and that Muslims in India have a right to desecrate sacred Hindu beliefs without any fear of repercussions.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

The court case was still pending when the Mosque was destroyed but there was no doubt whatsoever that it was built on top of a temple as the temple pillars with Hindu architecture style which is completely different and incongruent to the style in which that Mosque was built were visible in plain sight even when the mosque was around.

Thanks for answering the main question, what do we call someone who talks law in their hands? Hooligans or something else in India.

 

[Local.Dada]

just so you know .... you are trying to engage someone who thinks and believes Hamas and Hezbollah are freedom fighters no different from Gandhi and Mandela, and that Muslims in India have a right to desecrate sacred Hindu beliefs without any fear of repercussions.

I know it’s of no use. I just want to get it documented it for the I told you so moment like with some other topics in the past. However even that is useless; some of these just clutch on to some other straw lol.

 

[rpant_gabba]

The underlying theme with you is you always want your arguments addressed, without answering the other person's similar concerns. It does not work that way. Your schtick is up.

Nonsense. All you could say in defense against UCC as concept was historical context of muslims in India?

Why does historical context provide muslim with special treatment? there historicla context to slavery and discriminationinthe south of US. does it mean. that south gets special laws? F no.

Your constant preaching of being an athiest living in the US and having progressive values are completely overshadowed by your consistent stereotyping and generalization of Muslims.

Its not stereotyping if its true

I have plenty of evidence to support that muslims as a group are fit for a secular society.

Now you are accusing Muslims of rioting and killing during the Independence Movement, but have no qualms about raising the star spangled banner for gori chamri who committed similar "atrocities" for their freedom struggle. I suspect you need to educate yourself on the American Revolution and how bloody it was.

So you are comparing Jinnah's call to violence against civilians to the American's declaration of independence?

By that token muslims should have special considerations in India similar how bristish had no special consideration in the US.

You completely destroyed your own historical context argument for muslims in India

They got their freedom to have separate country. they should leave India to the land for muslims created by Jinnah with his terrorist tactics.

Freedom doesnt come easy.

Nope. It doesn't......

 

[rpant_gabba]

Nonsense. All you could say in defense against UCC as concept was historical context of muslims in India?

Why does historical context provide muslim with special treatment? there historicla context to slavery and discriminationinthe south of US. does it mean. that south gets special laws? F no.

Its not stereotyping if its true

I have plenty of evidence to support that muslims as a group are fit for a secular society.


So you are comparing Jinnah's call to violence against civilians to the American's declaration of independence?

By that token muslims should have special considerations in India similar how bristish had no special consideration in the US.

You completely destroyed your own historical context argument for muslims in India

They got their freedom to have separate country. they should leave India to the land for muslims created by Jinnah with his terrorist tactics.

Nope. It doesn't. If there needs to more Godra's to get UCC in India, so be it.

Its not stereotyping if its true

I have plenty of evidence to support that muslims as a group are unfit for a secular society.

note the correction

 

[rpant_gabba]

Nonsense. All you could say in defense against UCC as concept was historical context of muslims in India?

Why does historical context provide muslim with special treatment? there historicla context to slavery and discriminationinthe south of US. does it mean. that south gets special laws? F no.

Its not stereotyping if its true

I have plenty of evidence to support that muslims as a group are fit for a secular society.


So you are comparing Jinnah's call to violence against civilians to the American's declaration of independence?

By that token muslims should have special considerations in India similar how bristish had no special consideration in the US.

You completely destroyed your own historical context argument for muslims in India

They got their freedom to have separate country. they should leave India to the land for muslims created by Jinnah with his terrorist tactics.

Nope. It doesn't......

By that token muslims should have no special considerations in India similar how british had no special consideration in the US.

 

[Stewie]

Its not stereotyping if its true

I have plenty of evidence to support that muslims as a group are unfit for a secular society.

note the correction

What evidence would that be? That Muslims have been spread throughout the world living in almost every corner, every society for hundreds of years?

Whereas you Hindus have just recently started spreading your wings and because you dont mind downing bacon cheesburgers and beers somehow makes you more suitable for secular society? I am sure whatever it is, you and your hindu logic is going to be as superficial as your limited understanding of history and the Muslim faith.

The mayors of two major cities, perhaps the biggest centers of secular societies in the Western world (New York city and London) are Muslims. They were elected through a democratic process, are staunch defenders of their faith and or secular values. And it is not just me saying that. Obviously Millions and millions of voters who voted for them living in these cities also agree with me.

Now this is a strong evidence in any book!

So you take your stereotyping Islamophobic views and whatever evidence you have, frame it, hang it on a wall and pray to it. Add it to the list of the other thousands of dieties you and your secular brothers pray to.

You are welcome!

 

[rpant_gabba]

What evidence would that be? That Muslims have been spread throughout the world living in almost every corner, every society for hundreds of years?

Seriously?

The cartoon riots, murders in france, Vangogh murder in Netherlands. all infringing on the constitutional rights of those countries

Whereas you Hindus have just recently started spreading your wings and because you dont mind downing bacon cheesburgers and beers somehow makes you more suitable for secular society? I am sure whatever it is, you and your hindu logic is going to be as superficial as your limited understanding of history and the Muslim faith.

Yes, the one where muslims accept Secularism in rich, white countries and want special laws in India becos of "historical context"

The mayors of two major cities, perhaps the biggest centers of secular societies in the Western world (New York city and London) are Muslims. They were elected through a democratic process, are staunch defenders of their faith and or secular values. And it is not just me saying that. Obviously Millions and millions of voters who voted for them living in these cities also agree with me.

Individuals. not as a group. And they are not pushing for special laws for muslims. Apply the same logic to India.

As a group, see the the democratically voted laws passing around europe

here is muslims nvading public property for Prayers and getting the correct treatment

Sheikh who led prayer at Sydney protest against Herzog says police were ‘unhinged and aggressive’

Any officers who acted unlawfully should face prosecution for actions, Muslim groups say

www.theguardian.com

Now this is a strong evidence in any book!

So you take your stereotyping Islamophobic views

and the rest of european public passing burqa banning laws, which are all islamophobic, sure

Has it occured to your that they all saw where UK is headed becos the % of muslims and are taking preventive measures?

and whatever evidence you have, frame it, hang it on a wall and pray to it. Add it to the list of the other thousands of dieties you and your secular brothers pray to.

tell it to he praying type.

Also beats praying to someone who is Donald Trump of the 7th century

You are welcome!

Likewise