Why did Imran Khan and Ian Botham severely under perform in West Indies compared to Kapil Dev?

[Iqbal'sh]

Tendulkar had to change is batting style in 2004 due to tennis elbow and cut out some of his high scoring shots. He also had to reduce the weight of his bat,something that affected his timing and bat speed. Yet he continued to perform.

IK also came back strong but he was unable to bowl in the intervening period and not with the same explosive affect as before his injuries. Tendulkar had a short hiatus from the game, he even said the timing was unfortunate. Had it been at the end of a season no one would have even known about it.
Imran Khan just before his injury:

He was even more lethal in the 14 months between November 1981 and January 1983: in 16 Tests during this period he averaged almost 48 with the bat, and took 104 wickets at an incredible average of 14.87, with eight five-wicket hauls.

Cricbuzz.com

 

[Robert]

If Kapil played for batting averages he could have easily averaged in 40s in tests. He was evidently the most gifted batsmen among the 6 great ARs of his era.

I think Imran maximised his batting ability, while Kapil would have scored more than eight centuries had he been more careful.

But you could say Botham would have scored twenty centuries not fourteen had he been more careful too.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I think Imran maximised his batting ability, while Kapil would have scored more than eight centuries had he been more careful.

But you could say Botham would have scored twenty centuries not fourteen had he been more careful too.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Botham and Kapil were both gifted with immense battin abilities and had they applied themselves like Imran did they could have both achieved so much more with the bat and have had far better statistics.

It’s like Imran Khan was the Sangakkara with he bat among the ARs while Kapil and Botham more like Lara. More impact and talent with the bat but not the same average and other related stats.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I always felt Kapil was not as big a home bully as he should have been. Sehwag and Imran at home were terrifying bullies. Kapil should have at least hit 10 test centuries at home alone but he didn’t. You’d imagine someone who was acaoable of smashing the much feared Windies pace quartet at their own home would have smashed everyone at home with ease. But it didn’t really happen as much.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Actually the responses are providing context to the OP. If you want to understand and improve your history & knowledge of the great game instead of wasting time posting smilies I would read through these posts and learn.

Actually the responses are providing context to the OP. If you want to understand and improve your history & knowledge of the great game instead of wasting time posting smilies I would read through these posts and learn.

Excuse 1: oh but but when Dev scored the first century at over a 100 strike rate vs the WI quicks, because WI quicks were allegedly not trying as they allegedly already knew the game was a foregone conclusion.

So

We now give the Pakistanis the below example:

What about the following test where Dev smacked around the same WI bowlers in the first innings before the WI bowlers knew the match was a lost cause ?

Excuse no 2: Oh but, but, other batsmen scored runs as well in that test match lol ..


Conclusion: Imranstas will be Imranstas, no point talking logic to them, Imran who could barely put bat on ball in the WI is allegedly the better batsmen in WI regardless. Also throw in a few shouldve, wouldve, couldve in there since they got no stats to back up their claim....


DEV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMRAN the batsmen aka not out specialist...

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Inzamam played 120 Tests and Miandad played 124 Tests. Three West Indian legends in Garry Sobers, Viv Richards and Brian Lara played 93 Tests, 121 Tests and 131 Tests respectively.

Fair point. You can point at the real top one's and point to Inzi as not having taken his chance.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

How insecure are some fans.
Nobody is saying kapil is better than imran overall. Its just that he was better in windies.
Just like:
Chanderpaul >brian lara in India.
Herath>murali in aus
Rahane>dravid in aus
Pujara>gavaskar in srilanka.

 

[Adijazz1706]

How insecure are some fans.
Nobody is saying kapil is better than imran overall. Its just that he was better in windies.
Just like:
Chanderpaul >brian lara in India.
Herath>murali in aus
Rahane>dravid in aus
Pujara>gavaskar in srilanka.

TBF most players > Dravid in Aus, particularly if the 03-04 series against Brett Lee Brad Williams et al is put aside

 

[Perth93]

If stats told the whole story, some idiot 20 years later will rank sangakarra or Mahela over Viv. So don't count players by their numbers, but by those who saw them live, the fear they put into the opposition.

And secondly - 1983 world cup win? Seriously? A joke tournament for the sport's joke format. "World cup" in a 10-team sport is weird. At least if it were tests, then Kapil or Imran's WC wins would count for something.

Sigh. You desi plebs have killed the sport. Anyway, may your Emperor keep parading in his 'clothes'.

 

[Muhammad10]

I always felt Kapil was not as big a home bully as he should have been. Sehwag and Imran at home were terrifying bullies. Kapil should have at least hit 10 test centuries at home alone but he didn’t. You’d imagine someone who was acaoable of smashing the much feared Windies pace quartet at their own home would have smashed everyone at home with ease. But it didn’t really happen as much.

He did moderately well at home, averaging 36.97 (almost 6 points higher than his overall average). His struggles with the bat were mainly away from home, as he averaged a paltry 26.21 outside India.

 

[Romali_rotti]

If stats told the whole story, some idiot 20 years later will rank sangakarra or Mahela over Viv. So don't count players by their numbers, but by those who saw them live, the fear they put into the opposition.

And secondly - 1983 world cup win? Seriously? A joke tournament for the sport's joke format. "World cup" in a 10-team sport is weird. At least if it were tests, then Kapil or Imran's WC wins would count for something.

Sigh. You desi plebs have killed the sport. Anyway, may your Emperor keep parading in his 'clothes'.

Dent worry bro, it's all good, Dev's a better bat than Imran and Botham.. Don't let it bother you too much, it's not worth it, see what it's doing to Junaids, its a not a good thing psychologically.

 

[Monsee]

I always felt Kapil was not as big a home bully as he should have been. Sehwag and Imran at home were terrifying bullies. Kapil should have at least hit 10 test centuries at home alone but he didn’t. You’d imagine someone who was acaoable of smashing the much feared Windies pace quartet at their own home would have smashed everyone at home with ease. But it didn’t really happen as much.

Home Bully on pitches that were straight as an arrow and flatter than roads, how does that even work? To be a home bully, usually the pitches have to assist you in some way, how did Pakistani pitches assisted him except that he became so good that he usually took the pitches out of the equation? That is anything but home bullying!

 

[Tusker]

Bedi was offered the WSC contract, he threw the blank cheque at Packer's face and asked him to F off. He wasn't up for sale like some of his illustrious counterparts, "no bas__rd puts a price tag on me" he said putting the circus in its rightful place. Unfortunately other sellouts didn't have the spine to take a similar stance, of course none of them had either the moral fibre or courage of the Sardar, so unrealistic expectations on my part.

Similarly Gavaskar and Kirmani were offered contracts but Bedi put his foot down. That started the enmity between Bedi and Sunny which continued for many decades. As I said you have no credibility especially when it comes to Indian cricket, you are ill-read, biased and inflexible. So I don't even see any hope for change in you. What happened in Sabina Park in 1976 or the circumstances which resulted in Sunny's 36*, you have no clue and I see no reason to explain. You will never change and your words about Indian cricket will always mean zilch to those who actually seriously follow the sport. But you are on a Pakistani forum, so you will have a few dedicated followers who latch on to your untruths as gospel, so carry on with the bile.

Not just inflexible but completely immune to those pesky things otherwise known as facts. Because we discussed this about 2-3 yrs ago and when I produced Wisden match report for that 1976 test match he ran away from the thread.

btw going by his puerile opinion Faf duplesis is also a coward because he was ok with the Joburg 2018 match being called of due to a dangerous pitch. Karma you see works in mysterious ways.

Don't expect any rational debate with junaids. Man has a huge chip on his shoulder.

 

[Tusker]

If stats told the whole story, some idiot 20 years later will rank sangakarra or Mahela over Viv. So don't count players by their numbers, but by those who saw them live, the fear they put into the opposition.

And secondly - 1983 world cup win? Seriously? A joke tournament for the sport's joke format. "World cup" in a 10-team sport is weird. At least if it were tests, then Kapil or Imran's WC wins would count for something.

Sigh. You desi plebs have killed the sport. Anyway, may your Emperor keep parading in his 'clothes'.

If it weren't for stats the World wouldn't know how big a failure Viv was against the best bowlers in County and Domestic cricket. He was lucky to have them all in his team.
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION]

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

I grew up listening to stories of Kapil and Imran as my Mama (Uncle) was a huge fan of both of them. India is the first team from subcontinent to win a world cup under Kapil's captaincy in 1983 and Imran later on in 1992. Both gave their everything representing their countries, so massive respect to both the legends.

This thread is an Insult to the Honorable Prime Minister of Pakistan.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Home Bully on pitches that were straight as an arrow and flatter than roads, how does that even work? To be a home bully, usually the pitches have to assist you in some way, how did Pakistani pitches assisted him except that he became so good that he usually took the pitches out of the equation? That is anything but home bullying!

Dear Monsee bro,

I didn’t suggest Imran was able to bully at home because of the doctored pitches and home umpires.

Just that regardless of anything Imran and Botham were much more successful at home than Kapil.

Kapil could not dominate at home as much as he should have being the legend that he was.

Like I said someone who destroyed the Windies pace quartet twice on their own soil should have been a monster at home.

 

[Bhaijaan]

[MENTION=134706]as-95[/MENTION]

Salam brother.

Why do you think we're Imran and Botham never at the same level as Kapil Dev against the greatest team of their era?

Would like to know your valuable opinion

Happy new year once again brother

 

[andy0204]

Imran performed well with the ball against West Indies as compared to Botham.
Performance with ball Imran==Kapil.
Imran was man of the series in 1988 tour.
However Imran didn't perform well with the bat but he scored a century and did well at home.
Performance with the bat Kapil>Imran.

 

[MMHS]

Did Imran underperform in WIN? I believe, he never played there at his prime - played in 1976 series where he took like 25 wickets in 5 Tests & scored some runs as well. Next time he played was after coming from retirement, at 35+... still won a Test with 11 for, next Test took 9 wickets and 3 in 3rd, but this time batted well.

I have to check numbers, but it’s like 8 Tests, ~300 runs and 48 wickets at less than 25 probably.

 

[octavian]

some epic ownage here for the OP.