Why do many Muslims have a positive view of Barack Obama?

[Varun]

You guys will see what you've been missing a couple of years into Biden's reign, when another country has erupted into flames as and when the US tries to introduce 'democracy' into it.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I appreciate the detailed and researched responses but you're making an imaginary argument, I've never claimed to hold the US as a model for anybody and have posted on many occasions about these socioeconomic issues, including criticism of centrist Democrats. I'm all for fundamental change but you keep avoiding the issue - how do you practically achieve it ?

It's useless having idealistic visions you cannot deliver. Sanders failed dismally in two primaries, you can blame the DNC or the media, but he failed to turn out the youth like 2016, his support stagnated with black voters, and lost massively amongst over 45s. And even with the remote chance he was elected as President, HOW does he get his policies through Congress ? I again ask for a response - if you cannot get universal healthcare passed through liberal Vermont, how will you do so nationwide ?

Look I don't disagree with you on the goals, but I've heard these arguments here in the UK from Jeremy Corbyn supporters, that he was going to bring real change like you mention. Ultimately, he oversaw the worst Election defeat since 1935. He had no ability to compromise, to win over swing voters and made so many wild spending promises he wasn't seen as credible.

Again, I reject the status quoism of Clinton and Blair as vehemently as the impracticality of Sanders-Corbyn politics. But I cannot agree with some leftists that some change isn't better than no change simply because you didn't get everything on your wishlist. Obamacare wasn't singlepayer but it insured 20M people and saved lives. The Paris Accords didn't go far enough but was better than accelerating environmental destruction under Trump. History is not a linear curve but of progress and regress, but you keep fighting and take your victories when you can as opposed to giving up all hope holding unrealistic expectations.

Look, I get your point. You're proponent of incremental change. And I get that the ideas that I am proposing are unrealistic. But the only meaningful change I see take place in America, in atleast the last 40 years is how much more powerful and untouchable the rich have gotten. That's not meaningful change to me, that is a reinforcement of the status-quo. I'm not denying that there aren't small positives along the way. But ultimately if the same predatory, capitalist hellscape of a system is being reinforced, then it is only getting stronger. And people are being deluded into believing that things are changing.

We can agree to disagree. Because if we're being realistic it would take an act of God for the US to change course when its entire history from the 19th century onwards has led it to this point. But if corporations have gotten stronger and stronger (& aren't willing to do anything to prevent the destruction of our planet), if special interests can get anything done in Washington thanks to their money and influence, and if blacks are still rioting and protesting on the streets demanding justice and social equality; then exactly what has changed qualitatively?

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

In summary, you know where you stand with the right-wing, but you don't know where you stand with the left-wing.

Reason is simple, the left have no idea where they stand. Sometimes they will support Killary Clinton, sometimes Sanders, sometimes Biden, but it's all pic and mix with these lot. Some support BLM, other supports parts of BLM. It's ice cream flavour of the month with the left.

There's a reason why the left are popular with meltdowns, it's tougher defending an alternating lie in the face of the constant truth.

Same goes for the "right wing" . Some Support racism , some support gun rights, Some are anti abortion , some support bigotry , some support fiscal conservatism , some are anti LGBTQ, some libereterian , some support religion to govern laws, some are for less taxes , some are for more wars , some for less wars. This is how a 2 party system works , you pick the party that aligns mostly with your beliefs and vote for them . Like muslims used to overwhelmingly vote republican up until bush . I myself identify as a republican but I don't stand agree with what the party has become now .