Why doctors in Pakistan are allowed to go on strike?

[srh]

The doctors in Punjab province of Pakistan are on strike for pay raise and it has resulted in atleast 5 deaths so far. This is very sad situation and I am wondering why doctors in Pakistan are allowed to go on strike? It should be a mandatory service like police, firefighting etc. There should be an indepentant tribunal which handle pay raise issues for the mandatory service personnel hearing both sides and its decision is final.

 

[pakistani_banda]

dude it is not 5 deaths that have resulted. the death count is way more than that. the number that i know is 43 children died. more are dying.

 

[SIMBA]

Shameful from The doctors.

 

[tahaqureshi]

Shameful from The doctors.

Then how do doctors get their point across?

Government doctors often go an entire year without salaries because the government can't pay them.

 

[kkmix]

Then how do doctors get their point across?

Government doctors often go an entire year without salaries because the government can't pay them.

Certainly not by allowing people to die. Find other ways.

 

[12cavalry]

Then how do doctors get their point across?
.

true, there are no ways other than letting kids die.

Government doctors often go an entire year without salaries because the government can't pay them

exaggeration.
They are only protesting to get a raise.

 

[Foozee]

dude was just in Lahore 3 days ago.. spent there two months.. ive seen how bad the salaries are of doctors... I mean it, even construction workers in Dubai have better salaries.. Government should really do something bout it

 

[grunge]

Doctors are the most under paid professionals in the country..

a doctor doing House Job duty is paid 18000 a month..and that only applies to doctors working on 'sanctioned/paid'' seats..more than half the doctors in Punjab are working without any pay simply because the paid seats get filled up.

the routine duty includes two 24 hr duties per week...there is no rest at night in those 2 days as the doctor attends to patients all night long..they work from 8 to 2 the remaining 4 days..every alternate Sunday is also a duty day..similarly there is no assurity u will get a day-off on Eid or other Public holidays as the Hospitals cant shut down and somebody has to work.

A doctor after completing his House Job then starts looking for post graduate trainee seats which are again very limited..if one does manage to find one,the pay is 22500 per month.Duty hours are similar to described above.the post graduation period lasts around 5 years.

that is the sole reason the ''cream'' among Medical Graduates go for USA,US,Australian entrance tests and the move out..those who dont pass then look for jobs in the Middle east.

 

[SIMBA]

Then how do doctors get their point across?

Government doctors often go an entire year without salaries because the government can't pay them.

Well, there are other ways- not avoiding, killing poor people who have nothing to do with their pay!

DISGUSTING.

 

[Looney]

Sindh doctors join in

LAHORE/KARACHI: Doctors in Karachi, on Monday, announced that will go on strike from 11am onwards on Tuesday until the government fulfills their demands.

According to Express 24/7 correspondent Sheheryar Mirza, the doctors said that they are holding the strike in support of their colleague in Punjab as well as to have certain demands fullfilled.

The demands made by the doctors include a pay raise to Rs20,000 to Rs30,000 along with provision of certain benefits like free medical treatment for family members.

The doctors will also hold a press conference at 2pm on Tuesday.

Meanwhile, in Faisalabad, at least six patients lost their lives on the same day, owing to the continuing clashes between the Punjab government and the medical staff of the province.

The Young Doctors Association (YDA) asked its members to submit resignations while more than 400 doctors from Multan are set to send their resignations to the Secretary Health Punjab.

The government paying no heed to the doctors’ demands started taking interviews for new hires.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/142580/doctors-strike-sindh-doctors-vow-to-support-colleagues-in-punjab/

ghunda girdi hai sahi ki

 

[SIMBA]

Court should take action.

But do I trust, expect anything from the courts after the Davis saga- HELL NO.

 

[Fallen King]

You can't blame doctors for going on strike. At least, they are trying to fight to implement improvement of better contract and salaries through the proper way is being on strike, but the consequence of being on strike result on leaving patients unattended. There is proper ways of being on strike, but that wouldn't catch the attention of Punjab government at all.

If there is no improvement of better contract and salaries, then they will quit their jobs, and that's last thing we need considering we are already short of doctors in Pakistan in the first place. My condolences to the families and victims of this case.

Doctors need proper care taking, and therefore, they remain fit and able to attend patients. The system of Punjab is still remain outdated, and badly needed implementation of improving the system very immediate.

 

[Looney]

Enough with this self-victimization .

Do not compare doctors with construction workers or local sabzi wala because when they do something wrong , they can be held responsible , not doctors in Pakistan . This is like an unwritten rule , every doctor covers up for the other . They are so irresponsible that it is lsdfjlsdfj unbelievable !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And were they not protesting about it last year as well ? What happened ?
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010\06\13\story_13-6-2010_pg13_4

 

[kkmix]

They need to be put in jail for murder case.

 

[Fallen King]

^ We have no choice. Looney

They can quit their jobs, and who do we turn for doctor services. Pakistan is very short of doctors. Doctors are very few in Pakistan, but Pakistan has no short of construction workers, sabzi workers....etc. Only Doctors are very few in Pakistan. What is your solution to this case? Complaining would certainly doesn't help at all.

 

[ZenBowman]

If they cannot strike to improve pay and working conditions, then you will see even fewer people who want to become doctors, which leads to more suffering in the long run.

 

[kkmix]

So what if they raise the pay from 20 thousand to 30 thousand, what if after 2 months, they want another raise, and go on strike again. There has to be a law in place for this.

 

[Looney]

^ We have no choice. Looney

They can quit their jobs, and who do we turn for doctor services. Pakistan is very short of doctors. Doctors are very few in Pakistan, but Pakistan has no short of construction workers, sabzi workers....etc. Only Doctors are very few in Pakistan. What is your solution to this case? Complaining would certainly doesn't help at all.

I would like to know what the ratio is of patients to doctors in Pakistan . This is plain ghunda girdi though , playing with lives of their patients . And i want to know , they protested last year as well us ka kia bana ?

I am in support for having better wages and better working conditions but the kind of irresponsibility and unprofessionalism they show is just downright pathetic and disgusting . They do not care about their patients even the senior doctors . Unless you have connections , bhool jao aap ko jaanwar ki treatment bhi miley gi . Private hospitals maiN wahi haal hai government maiN wahi haal hai . They cannot even get the goddamn lab reports right . jaahil log just thinking about the mental torture i had to go through and even physical torture i would say to the patient just pisses me off .

doctors doing house job go around giving their " expert opinions " even if they have no idea . the doctors do not look at the reports . they are some kind of sadists enjoying watching people in pain and causing more pain .

Why nobody protests about this ? Why these associations do not work to create a system and make sure everyone follows it ?

 

[Looney]

So what if they raise the pay from 20 thousand to 30 thousand, what if after 2 months, they want another raise, and go on strike again. There has to be a law in place for this.

exactly , jis hisaab se mehngai barh rahi hai even 30 000 rupees is not enough for a qualified doctor .

 

[Fallen King]

I would like to know what the ratio is of patients to doctors in Pakistan . This is plain ghunda girdi though , playing with lives of their patients . And i want to know , they protested last year as well us ka kia bana ?

I am in support for having better wages and better working conditions but the kind of irresponsibility and unprofessionalism they show is just downright pathetic and disgusting . They do not care about their patients even the senior doctors . Unless you have connections , bhool jao aap ko jaanwar ki treatment bhi miley gi . Private hospitals maiN wahi haal hai government maiN wahi haal hai . They cannot even get the goddamn lab reports right . jaahil log just thinking about the mental torture i had to go through and even physical torture i would say to the patient just pisses me off .

doctors doing house job go around giving their " expert opinions " even if they have no idea . the doctors do not look at the reports . they are some kind of sadists enjoying watching people in pain and causing more pain .

Why nobody protests about this ? Why these associations do not work to create a system and make sure everyone follows it ?

We probably not gonna like to hear the fact that if we complain, they quit their jobs. Then, we are out of doctors. That's why we are stuck in the broken system. Better to mend the broken system instead of punishing the doctors because the truth is, we need them more than they need the nation. That's one sad truth no body wanna hear.

That's why doctors have taken broken system for granted, but the treatment of doctors by government is not helping either. If young generation gets this idea of mistreatment of doctors, then no one would want to be doctor. Can we afford that? I agree with you for everything you said, but then again, we are short of doctors, and hence, we are stuck with these kind of doctors who not only experience mistreatment by government, but utilize the broken systems to get away from any charge as well. That's the bitter truth world we live in sadly.

 

[lahori]

I'm with the doctors on this one. It is sad to see that such a respected profession is so lowly paid in Pakistan. If anyone is to blame for the deaths of these people it is the government of Pakistan. They do absolutely nothing for the common man and yet our leaders are among the richest individuals in the world.

My own wife is a doctor who was doing housejob in Lahore for Rs18,000 (less than $250/mo). She is now in the US with me and can earn 4 times more by just working a day shift at the local convenience store. She is right now studying for the USMLEs and inshallah once she becomes licensed her starting pay will be $150,000/yr. Her older brother and younger sister are also doctors, and both are planning to take additional exams and move abroad. Now you tell me whether its wise for doctors to move out of Pakistan to seek better opportunities, you bet it is.

Doctors in Pakistan get peanuts for salaries and until that situation improves, we will continue to see these kind of events, and believe it or not, this is just the start of it. If anything I actually think doctors are nice just requesting an additional peanut in addition to the existing peanuts they are getting. Even Rs 30,000 is peanuts. Young doctor's salaries should be no less than Rs 1lac at the very least. Then we're talking .

 

[kingusama92]

All I see is innocent people dying.

Just a sad situation. Shame on the Pakistani government for not handling this properly.

I understand where the doctors are coming from, but I just can't see innocent people die because they weren't treated.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Do you have any law similar to India's ESMA (Essential Service Maintenance Act), Wiki: ESMA.

Basic points under the Act -

The enactment of this law lists the following:

1. Power to prohibit strikes in certain employments: If the Central Government is satisfied that in the public interest, it is necessary or expedient to do so. It may, by general or 67 special Order, prohibit strikes in any essential service specified in the Order.
2. The order shall be published in such manners as the Central Government considers the best calculated manner to bring it to. The notice of the persons affected by the order.
3. The order shall be in force for six months only, but the Central Government may (by a like order) extend it for any period, that does not exceed six months, if it is satisfied that in the public interest it is necessary or expedient to do so.
4. Upon the issue of an Order: (a) No person employed in any essential service to which the order relates, shall go or remain on strike; (b) any strike declared or commenced, whether before or after the issue of the order, by persons employed in any such service shall be illegal.
5. Penalty for illegal strikes: Any person who commences a strike which is illegal under this Act or goes or remains on, or otherwise takes part in, any such strike shall be punishable by imprisonment for a term, which may extend to six months, by a fine (which may extend to two-hundred rupees) or both.
6. Penalty for instigation, etc: Any person who instigates, or incites other persons to take part in, or otherwise acts in furtherance of a strike (which is illegal under this Act) shall be punishable by imprisonment for a term which may extend to one year, a fine which may extend to one thousand rupees, or both.
7. Penalty for giving financial aid to illegal strikes: Any person who knowingly expends or supplies any money in furtherance or support of a strike which is illegal under this Act, shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which may extend to one year, a fine which may extend to one thousand rupees, or both.
8. Power to arrest without warrant: Power to arrest without warrant. Notwithstanding anything contained in the Code of Criminal Procedure of 1898 (5 of 1898), any police officer may arrest without warrant any person who is reasonably suspected of having committed any offence under this Act.
9. Act to override other laws: The provisions of this act and of any order issued thereunder, shall have effect notwithstanding anything inconsistent there with. 68 contained in the Industrial Disputes Act of 1947 (14 of 1947), or in any other law for the time being in force.

 

[grunge]

I'm with the doctors on this one. It is sad to see that such a respected profession is so lowly paid in Pakistan. If anyone is to blame for the deaths of these people it is the government of Pakistan. They do absolutely nothing for the common man and yet our leaders are among the richest individuals in the world.

My own wife is a doctor who was doing housejob in Lahore for Rs18,000 (less than $250/mo). She is now in the US with me and can earn 4 times more by just working a day shift at the local convenience store. She is right now studying for the USMLEs and inshallah once she becomes licensed her starting pay will be $150,000/yr. Her older brother and younger sister are also doctors, and both are planning to take additional exams and move abroad. Now you tell me whether its wise for doctors to move out of Pakistan to seek better opportunities, you bet it is.

Doctors in Pakistan get peanuts for salaries and until that situation improves, we will continue to see these kind of events, and believe it or not, this is just the start of it. If anything I actually think doctors are nice just requesting an additional peanut in addition to the existing peanuts they are getting. Even Rs 30,000 is peanuts. Young doctor's salaries should be no less than Rs 1lac at the very least. Then we're talking .

Excellent post..i myself worked for 6 months for the same salary...and i was lucky to get that ''paid'' seat..most of my collegues are still working for free...I appeared for UK entrance exam last month..will have the result in a week or so.

Will definitely move out of here if i pass..there is just no future...all my fellow batch members are following the same route..the only people staying here and planing to work here are those that either didnt pass the USA/UK/AUS entrance exams or dont have enough money to apply for them(they carry a pretty hefty fee).

 

[Maula Jutt]

Pakistani doctors are some of the most abused doctors in the world. Which consequently results in some of the most abused patients in the world.

I really don't see any hope for this country.

 

[ozymandias]

Do you have any law similar to India's ESMA (Essential Service Maintenance Act), Wiki: ESMA.

Basic points under the Act -

The enactment of this law lists the following:

1. Power to prohibit strikes in certain employments: If the Central Government is satisfied that in the public interest, it is necessary or expedient to do so. It may, by general or 67 special Order, prohibit strikes in any essential service specified in the Order.
2. The order shall be published in such manners as the Central Government considers the best calculated manner to bring it to. The notice of the persons affected by the order.
3. The order shall be in force for six months only, but the Central Government may (by a like order) extend it for any period, that does not exceed six months, if it is satisfied that in the public interest it is necessary or expedient to do so.
4. Upon the issue of an Order: (a) No person employed in any essential service to which the order relates, shall go or remain on strike; (b) any strike declared or commenced, whether before or after the issue of the order, by persons employed in any such service shall be illegal.
5. Penalty for illegal strikes: Any person who commences a strike which is illegal under this Act or goes or remains on, or otherwise takes part in, any such strike shall be punishable by imprisonment for a term, which may extend to six months, by a fine (which may extend to two-hundred rupees) or both.
6. Penalty for instigation, etc: Any person who instigates, or incites other persons to take part in, or otherwise acts in furtherance of a strike (which is illegal under this Act) shall be punishable by imprisonment for a term which may extend to one year, a fine which may extend to one thousand rupees, or both.
7. Penalty for giving financial aid to illegal strikes: Any person who knowingly expends or supplies any money in furtherance or support of a strike which is illegal under this Act, shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which may extend to one year, a fine which may extend to one thousand rupees, or both.
8. Power to arrest without warrant: Power to arrest without warrant. Notwithstanding anything contained in the Code of Criminal Procedure of 1898 (5 of 1898), any police officer may arrest without warrant any person who is reasonably suspected of having committed any offence under this Act.
9. Act to override other laws: The provisions of this act and of any order issued thereunder, shall have effect notwithstanding anything inconsistent there with. 68 contained in the Industrial Disputes Act of 1947 (14 of 1947), or in any other law for the time being in force.

ESMA no popular lalitha

 

[ozymandias]

With regards to the title...

maybe they are allowed to go on strike because they too are human?

It is their right to demand solutions for their problems, and if you are going to keep on blackmiling them emotionally, then how will they live?

If you think doctors whould be forced to work, then best of luck, there wont be any doctors left in the profession itself, and there wont any need for strikes. If you are so damn worried about people, maybe you should have become a doctor, and worked for free.

 

[Dr. Schaden Freud]

Yes, but the emergency wards shouldn't be left without doctors.

Large number of doctors going on strike can help them put their point across. But, they have a responsibility to make sure that there are no deaths because of the strike.

 

[No_Username]

Thats not the way to protest, I understand they have money problems but letting innocent people die is pathetic.

They should be paid nothing now for such despicable acts! Imagine what the patients family if going through.

Shame on the doctors.

 

[srh]

Do you have any law similar to India's ESMA (Essential Service Maintenance Act), Wiki: ESMA.

Basic points under the Act -

The enactment of this law lists the following:

1. Power to prohibit strikes in certain employments: If the Central Government is satisfied that in the public interest, it is necessary or expedient to do so. It may, by general or 67 special Order, prohibit strikes in any essential service specified in the Order.
2. The order shall be published in such manners as the Central Government considers the best calculated manner to bring it to. The notice of the persons affected by the order.
3. The order shall be in force for six months only, but the Central Government may (by a like order) extend it for any period, that does not exceed six months, if it is satisfied that in the public interest it is necessary or expedient to do so.
4. Upon the issue of an Order: (a) No person employed in any essential service to which the order relates, shall go or remain on strike; (b) any strike declared or commenced, whether before or after the issue of the order, by persons employed in any such service shall be illegal.
5. Penalty for illegal strikes: Any person who commences a strike which is illegal under this Act or goes or remains on, or otherwise takes part in, any such strike shall be punishable by imprisonment for a term, which may extend to six months, by a fine (which may extend to two-hundred rupees) or both.
6. Penalty for instigation, etc: Any person who instigates, or incites other persons to take part in, or otherwise acts in furtherance of a strike (which is illegal under this Act) shall be punishable by imprisonment for a term which may extend to one year, a fine which may extend to one thousand rupees, or both.
7. Penalty for giving financial aid to illegal strikes: Any person who knowingly expends or supplies any money in furtherance or support of a strike which is illegal under this Act, shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which may extend to one year, a fine which may extend to one thousand rupees, or both.
8. Power to arrest without warrant: Power to arrest without warrant. Notwithstanding anything contained in the Code of Criminal Procedure of 1898 (5 of 1898), any police officer may arrest without warrant any person who is reasonably suspected of having committed any offence under this Act.
9. Act to override other laws: The provisions of this act and of any order issued thereunder, shall have effect notwithstanding anything inconsistent there with. 68 contained in the Industrial Disputes Act of 1947 (14 of 1947), or in any other law for the time being in force.

thats what I am talking about. All countries usually have these kind of laws [Essential Service]. Wondering if Pakistan has such a law and if it has one then why doctors are not part of it.

 

[ozymandias]

thats what I am talking about. All countries usually have these kind of laws [Essential Service]. Wondering if Pakistan has such a law and if it has one then why doctors are not part of it.

Yes, and use it, forget about coming to power the next time.

 

[Dr. Schaden Freud]

I don't see how forcing a few dozen doctors to work in emergency wards while rest of the doctors strike is going to hurt the government's popularity.

Those in-charge of the hospital that did not see to it that the emergency health-care units were up should be held responsible for any deaths.

The medical profession has a hypocritical oath of its own and letting someone in a critical condition go uncared for because of a strike is against the tenets of their professional ethics.

 

[ozymandias]

I don't see how forcing a few dozen doctors to work in emergency wards while rest of the doctors strike is going to hurt the government's popularity.

Those in-charge of the hospital that did not see to it that the emergency health-care units were up should be held responsible for any deaths.

The medical profession has a hypocritical oath of its own and letting someone in a critical condition go uncared for because of a strike is against the tenets of their professional ethics.

Not doctors per se, but forcing unions through non democratic means will hurt the government. Case to be noted is Jayalalitha, ex Chief Minister of TN using ESMA against striking govt. employees who were protesting against withholding of bonuses. In the subsequent election, her party lost all the MP constituencies(Although not the only reason, but it was one of the strongest reasons for her defeat). Ticking off govt employees is a very bad move in my opinion, especially, when you are using non democratic means like the ESMA.

Also I am not talking about emergency wards or particular cases, etc. ESMA doesnt discriminate between so called 'emergency cases' or otherwise, it outright makes it illegal for doctors to go on strike. Not just for doctors, it is also for police, water, PWD, transportation, and what not, anything that the govt. deems to be essential, and therein lies the catch, anything the govt. does is in itself is essential.

 

[ozymandias]

I don't see how forcing a few dozen doctors to work in emergency wards while rest of the doctors strike is going to hurt the government's popularity.

Those in-charge of the hospital that did not see to it that the emergency health-care units were up should be held responsible for any deaths.

The medical profession has a hypocritical oath of its own and letting someone in a critical condition go uncared for because of a strike is against the tenets of their professional ethics.

Agreed, but it should not be perceived as their weakness. You have got to be fair, only then people will support you. And IMO, the doctors are on the right side here. They aint slaves, and if the govt. thinks so, and then they are in for a rude awakening.

 

[Dr. Schaden Freud]

Well, striking and not tending to normal patients can be accepted as necessary evil to improve their financial position. But, same standards can not be applied to patients with critical ailments.

I think, enough inconvenience would be caused if 90% of the doctors go on strike. The 10% in charge of emergency wards should however be working all the time.

 

[No_Username]

Really?

May I ask what you do for a living?

May I ask you, whats bigger:
Money
or
Life?

And yes its unfair with the doctors, but that doesn't mean that they have the right to let people die!

 

[Looney]

Like i said , this is not the way to protest . Respect has to be earned and they are not earning any by letting innocent patients who have nothing to do with their salaries die . Nobody here is saying that doctors do not deserve to earn more but we are just not happy with how they are letting people just die .

You want to compare Pakistani doctors wit h American and Canadian doctors ? For your info , becoming a doctor here is much tougher and you have to keep updating yourself for the rest of your life . You mess up one little thing and because o f you one person loses their life , your license can be cancelled .

I am not as familiar with American healthcare but i can compare Canadian and Pakistani hospitals and doctors for i am familiar with both . Last year , i was in Pakistan aur mere baRay chakkar lagay haiN hospitals ke ICU se le kar qabristan tak ke . Senior doctors se le kar residency per jo doctors hotay thay un se bhi paala paRa tha . Hum hosla barhatay thay yeh soch kar ke patients ki families Interior Sindh , KP aur pata nahi kahaN kahaN se tent laga kar baahir reh rahay thay sarkoN per because they could not afford to live elsewhere . They used to get free food from a trust and their patients were eating the same thing in hospitals .

And this year , my mom had to have a major surgery in Canada . She stayed there for 4-5 days . I cannot even begin to explain how impressed i was with everything . The nurses in Pakistan do not even touch you if you do not give them 10-20 rupees for every job . Here , the nurses basically take care of eveyrthing . The surgeons are so polite , make sure you understand everything even if their patients do not speak English . Senior doctors refuse to talk to patients directly in Paksitan . I once made the mistake of asking a senior doctor about something that was the fault of the hospital staff and he gave me this GTFO of my face look and walked away . Then another doctor came and i told him what happened and he said " Aap ne bhi to senior doctor se hi poocha " and i realized it was like gunaah e kabira to talk to a senior doctor .

Doctors here can be punished severely and their career is at stake all the time . The kind of commitment and responsibility they have to show , they deserve to be paid 150 ,000 +

 

[lahori]

You want to compare Pakistani doctors wit h American and Canadian doctors ? For your info , becoming a doctor here is much tougher and you have to keep updating yourself for the rest of your life . You mess up one little thing and because o f you one person loses their life , your license can be cancelled .

Looney, I actually had the opposite experience here in the US (not sure about Canada). In my opinion the healthcare in Pakistan is more accessible and dare I say , better than in the US. Here you have to go through so much khwaari just to get a simple stitches done. And god forbid you go to ER, the hospital and the contracted physician staff will milk you real good.

Wife got a small cut which required a few minor stitches in the finger, went to ER, came out 4 hours later and a $2000+ bill. Insurance covered majority of it but still the notion of such a high bill is outrageous. Secondly the 4 hrs it took (out of which 3.5 hrs was mostly wait) is unacceptable. Any decent hospital in Pakistan will have you in and out with stitches in no time.

Secondly urgent care clinics here in the US are a joke. They are worse than what you describe in Pakistan. At least in Pakistan you get some kind of diagnosis done. With urgent care clinics it seems like they do some kind of dice roll and say here's your issue. That's what literally happened with my boss who was told he had a muscle pull whereas the problem was much more complicated (having something to do with his inner chest wall and lung area).

So another way to look at it is, not only are the Doctors in the US overpaid, they're also not as good as their Pakistani counterparts. Which makes me even more sad for the way we're treating doctors in Pakistan because we have extremely talented doctors in Pakistan who deal with patients who have diseases far less common amongst those living in the west.

 

[Looney]

Looney, I actually had the opposite experience here in the US (not sure about Canada). In my opinion the healthcare in Pakistan is more accessible and dare I say , better than in the US. Here you have to go through so much khwaari just to get a simple stitches done. And god forbid you go to ER, the hospital and the contracted physician staff will milk you real good.

Wife got a small cut which required a few minor stitches in the finger, went to ER, came out 4 hours later and a $2000+ bill. Insurance covered majority of it but still the notion of such a high bill is outrageous. Secondly the 4 hrs it took (out of which 3.5 hrs was mostly wait) is unacceptable. Any decent hospital in Pakistan will have you in and out with stitches in no time.

Secondly urgent care clinics here in the US are a joke. They are worse than what you describe in Pakistan. At least in Pakistan you get some kind of diagnosis done. With urgent care clinics it seems like they do some kind of dice roll and say here's your issue. That's what literally happened with my boss who was told he had a muscle pull whereas the problem was much more complicated (having something to do with his inner chest wall and lung area).

So another way to look at it is, not only are the Doctors in the US overpaid, they're also not as good as their Pakistani counterparts. Which makes me even more sad for the way we're treating doctors in Pakistan because we have extremely talented doctors in Pakistan who deal with patients who have diseases far less common amongst those living in the west.

Lahori bro , i lost someone very close to me because of doctors not treating that person's case with enough care . The patient was diabetic and spent 15 days in the hospital and developed bed sores which later turned into gangrene because they would not turn that patient over every hour or so . They refused to treat it as well . 2nd time that person was in the same hospital , they did not change that person's adult underwears for 48 hours ! When we asked them , they accused us of lieing and said they did change it so we told them you guys use a different brand in your hospital .

I do not see how your experience was worse than mine . At least you can take them to the court here but not in Pakistan . I can tell you more but the more i think about it the angrier i feel . Lets just say , when the person passed away , we were relieved and happy because their deaht put an end to their suffering . We were not even getting all this treatment done for free , they are not volunteers and not doing me or anyone a favour .

I know that Canadian health system is definitely much better than American but i cannot imagine it being worse than Pakistan's where you are literally treated worse than an animal

 

[grunge]

Lahori bro , i lost someone very close to me because of doctors not treating that person's case with enough care . The patient was diabetic and spent 15 days in the hospital and developed bed sores which later turned into gangrene because they would not turn that patient over every hour or so . They refused to treat it as well . 2nd time that person was in the same hospital , they did not change that person's adult underwears for 48 hours ! When we asked them , they accused us of lieing and said they did change it so we told them you guys use a different brand in your hospital .
l

im sorry for your loss but thats what u get when u understaff wards....the discrepancy b/w the no of patients and the no of doctors available is mindblowing...

 

[Looney]

im sorry for your loss but thats what u get when u understaff wards....the discrepancy b/w the no of patients and the no of doctors available is mindblowing...

Problem is not being understaffed only . It maybe so in the rural areas but i was in Karachi . My relative was in ICU and i heard the doctor in charge of the ICU talking on the phone about nihari paai . One of the doctors doing her residency said to us that our patient's brain has stopped working ( in ka dimaagh kaam karna choR chuka hai - exact words ) . Even though it was working perfectly fine The patient was unconscious but responding . The patient was later able to talk , walk , see , hear , comprehend fine

 

[lahori]

salary of a House Officer in pakistan=18000

salary of an H.O. in India=80,000

and given the exchange rate (1 indian rupee = 2 pak rupees) that's like 1.6lac Pak rupees/mo for the Indian doctor. Not too shabby. Where are we going wrong here??

 

[Foozee]

Like i said , this is not the way to protest . Respect has to be earned and they are not earning any by letting innocent patients who have nothing to do with their salaries die . Nobody here is saying that doctors do not deserve to earn more but we are just not happy with how they are letting people just die .

You want to compare Pakistani doctors wit h American and Canadian doctors ? For your info , becoming a doctor here is much tougher and you have to keep updating yourself for the rest of your life . You mess up one little thing and because o f you one person loses their life , your license can be cancelled .

I am not as familiar with American healthcare but i can compare Canadian and Pakistani hospitals and doctors for i am familiar with both . Last year , i was in Pakistan aur mere baRay chakkar lagay haiN hospitals ke ICU se le kar qabristan tak ke . Senior doctors se le kar residency per jo doctors hotay thay un se bhi paala paRa tha . Hum hosla barhatay thay yeh soch kar ke patients ki families Interior Sindh , KP aur pata nahi kahaN kahaN se tent laga kar baahir reh rahay thay sarkoN per because they could not afford to live elsewhere . They used to get free food from a trust and their patients were eating the same thing in hospitals .

And this year , my mom had to have a major surgery in Canada . She stayed there for 4-5 days . I cannot even begin to explain how impressed i was with everything . The nurses in Pakistan do not even touch you if you do not give them 10-20 rupees for every job . Here , the nurses basically take care of eveyrthing . The surgeons are so polite , make sure you understand everything even if their patients do not speak English . Senior doctors refuse to talk to patients directly in Paksitan . I once made the mistake of asking a senior doctor about something that was the fault of the hospital staff and he gave me this GTFO of my face look and walked away . Then another doctor came and i told him what happened and he said " Aap ne bhi to senior doctor se hi poocha " and i realized it was like gunaah e kabira to talk to a senior doctor .

Doctors here can be punished severely and their career is at stake all the time . The kind of commitment and responsibility they have to show , they deserve to be paid 150 ,000 +

Sooo true.. My dad jus had surgery a month ago in Lahore.. all of this is true.. Senior Doctors have this attitude that they're big Shots.. nurses have to be given money everytime as if ur expected too.. hell anyone in the corridor who says salam to you expects money...

kya banegaa iss mulk kaa..

 

[grunge]

and given the exchange rate (1 indian rupee = 2 pak rupees) that's like 1.6lac Pak rupees/mo for the Indian doctor. Not too shabby. Where are we going wrong here??

Yup ridiculous to say the least..the only doctors staying and working here are those 1.who fail their USMLE/PLAB/AMC tests or 2.cant afford to take them.

 

[grunge]

Problem is not being understaffed only . It maybe so in the rural areas but i was in Karachi . My relative was in ICU and i heard the doctor in charge of the ICU talking on the phone about nihari paai . One of the doctors doing her residency said to us that our patient's brain has stopped working ( in ka dimaagh kaam karna choR chuka hai - exact words ) . Even though it was working perfectly fine The patient was unconscious but responding . The patient was later able to talk , walk , see , hear , comprehend fine

i cant defend the attitude of the doctors above mentioned.thats just wrong.

However referring to doctors being rude/unco-operative ,that is again down to low pays and understaffing..the reason being an average Medical officer/resident after coming home round 3 in the afternoon then goes onto work in private hospitals in the evening...just to earn that extra 20-25thousand/month...he then comes home around midnight if he doesn't have a 24 hour duty which is every 3 days..

the same guy then turns up again 8:30 next morning for Government duty...how can one expect such an overworked individual to be consistently polite/informative?they're just humans afterall

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Young Doctors in Punjab demand Khyber Pakhtunkhwa like Service Structure in Punjab aswell

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# Imran Khan ne KPK mein kya ker liya hai