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Why doesn't Hasan Ali get the new ball?

ethan hunt

ethan hunt

First Class Captain
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Runs
5,540
Can easily give him 3 or 4 overs at the start .
He needs to be used as an attacking option . Stop treating him as a death specialist.
 
Its a defensive move . This guy is your best bowler . You use him to stop an onslaught .
Also feel dropping the legspinner was another defensive move .
Hasan is amazing though . Dont care about his figures . Class bowler.
 
New Yorker said:
Let's just hope no ones tells him he's too short to do well.
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I'm sure Junaids has mentioned it countless times.

Daft to use two left armers who are both similar and also inferior to his bowling unless he himself prefers to come on with slightly older ball.
 
khalil1986 said:
I'm sure Junaids has mentioned it countless times.

Daft to use two left armers who are both similar and also inferior to his bowling unless he himself prefers to come on with slightly older ball.
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Everyone thinks they know what a bowler can't do without.

Too short; not enough pace; Blah blah.

Wickets is wickets yaar.
 
Aamer kind of sucks new ball.... but let's NOT waste Hasan Ali.. if he's good in middle overs.. let him bowl in middle overs.. DONT take youngster out of comfort zone!!! NEVER EVER!!
 
I think, for 2 reasons -

1. Arthur might enjoy couple of sips here & there, but most likely he isn't drunk when he fixes team strategy.
2. International teams these days don't open with Azhar Ali & Ahmed Shehzad.

Now, going further on this, Hasan is a fantastic prospect, young, intelligent, hungry, fit & enthusiastic - so much that I would nominate him a prime candidate for Sarfu's deputy............. but he is at most 5'9" & bowls at average 134km with effort ball touching 140KM.

I shouldn't talk about other teams here, so can't talk about Finch/Warner, Roy/Hales, Guptil/Ronchi, Dhawan/Rohit, Amla/Kok ... but I can say about Tamim/Soumya - with 9 men inside 30 metres, in a60 metre ground & these white Kookaburra going gun barrel straight on wickets made with marble - from ball 1, those two'll stand a feet outside popping crease & charge down the line to a bowler who needs to pitch it up, if he is to make slightest of impacts...... and he is 5'9", bowling at an average about 12-15km slower than the other guy with similar height I saw bowling fast in International cricket for long - Malcolm Denzil Marshall - and, that guy Marshall used to average 26 in ODI, played entirely in 80s - 6 runs higher than his Test average of 20.

On top of that, Hasan is using the old ball perfectly, getting vital wickets in middle overs & bowling intelligently in death overs - so, obviously he needs to be experimented with the new ball, which probably he doesn't take even in PSL or PAK Cup.

#Idea

Peace//
 
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MMHS said:
I think, for 2 reasons -

1. Arthur might enjoy couple of sips here & there, but most likely he isn't drunk when he fixes team strategy.
2. International teams these days don't open with Azhar Ali & Ahmed Shehzad.

Now, going further on this, Hasan is a fantastic prospect, young, intelligent, hungry, fit & enthusiastic - so much that I would nominate him a prime candidate for Sarfu's deputy............. but he is at most 5'9" & bowls at average 134km with effort ball touching 140KM.

I shouldn't talk about other teams here, so can't talk about Finch/Warner, Roy/Hales, Guptil/Ronchi, Dhawan/Rohit, Amla/Kok ... but I can say about Tamim/Soumya - with 9 men inside 30 metres, in a60 metre ground & these white Kookaburra going gun barrel straight on wickets made with marble - from ball 1, those two'll stand a feet outside popping crease & charge down the line to a bowler who needs to pitch it up, if he is to make slightest of impacts...... and he is 5'9", bowling at an average about 12-15km slower than the other guy with similar height I saw bowling fast in International cricket for long - Malcolm Denzil Marshall - and, that guy Marshall used to average 26 in ODI, played entirely in 80s - 6 runs higher than his Test average of 20.

On top of that, Hasan is using the old ball perfectly, getting vital wickets in middle overs & bowling intelligently in death overs - so, obviously he needs to be experimented with the new ball, which probably he doesn't take even in PSL or PAK Cup.

#Idea

Peace//
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Forgot to mention another one, slightly taller (say about 2 inch) & faster (say about 7km), & he knows few tricks about using the new ball as well - but still, a damn ordinary ODI bowler compared to his Test status - one who would struggle to make contemporary world ODI XI ever even at his prime - Dale Styen.

Can't fit a squire peg in round hole .........
 
MMHS said:
I think, for 2 reasons -

1. Arthur might enjoy couple of sips here & there, but most likely he isn't drunk when he fixes team strategy.
2. International teams these days don't open with Azhar Ali & Ahmed Shehzad.

Now, going further on this, Hasan is a fantastic prospect, young, intelligent, hungry, fit & enthusiastic - so much that I would nominate him a prime candidate for Sarfu's deputy............. but he is at most 5'9" & bowls at average 134km with effort ball touching 140KM.

I shouldn't talk about other teams here, so can't talk about Finch/Warner, Roy/Hales, Guptil/Ronchi, Dhawan/Rohit, Amla/Kok ... but I can say about Tamim/Soumya - with 9 men inside 30 metres, in a60 metre ground & these white Kookaburra going gun barrel straight on wickets made with marble - from ball 1, those two'll stand a feet outside popping crease & charge down the line to a bowler who needs to pitch it up, if he is to make slightest of impacts...... and he is 5'9", bowling at an average about 12-15km slower than the other guy with similar height I saw bowling fast in International cricket for long - Malcolm Denzil Marshall - and, that guy Marshall used to average 26 in ODI, played entirely in 80s - 6 runs higher than his Test average of 20.

On top of that, Hasan is using the old ball perfectly, getting vital wickets in middle overs & bowling intelligently in death overs - so, obviously he needs to be experimented with the new ball, which probably he doesn't take even in PSL or PAK Cup.

#Idea

Peace//
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[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] He bowled with new ball for Zalmi in PSL every match. Watch his spell in semi final with new ball, got a cracking outswing with new ball.
 
Hamza_ said:
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] He bowled with new ball for Zalmi in PSL every match. Watch his spell in semi final with new ball, got a cracking outswing with new ball.
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He shouldn't - he might be bowling because there is no other option. That cracking out swinger will race even at a bigger crack, once PSL moves out of UAE dross.

Also, give PSL teams couple of years more - they'll learn that, chasing 160 ish scores in T20, these days better teams target to score 60 in first 6 overs, not in last 6.
 
Open Bowling with Hassan?

He's our best bowler the pitch will be flat and the Indian top 3 are the prize scalps. Amir has yet to take a wicket with the new ball. Does it not make sense to give it to Hassan instead?
 
If not open, at least bring him in to the attack earlier, if the other two are not getting wickets
 
Like Waqar Younis he is better with the old ball. Bowls well to left handers as well so should be considered against India with Dhawan opening for them.
 
ManFan said:
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Something *is* 'broke' if Amir is not getting wickets with the new ball. That's what it is for. And this will be the flattest pitch yet. If Imad is dropped it is going to be all the more difficult to get reverse later on.
 
I would love him to get one or two over with the new ball against dhawan, he takes the ball away from left handers and might get dhawan cheap caught at slips.
 
I remember in the inaugural PSL he would open the bowling and more often than not he would always get a breakthrough. I don't know if it was the T20 format but he was also more aggressive bowling more bouncers too.
Nevertheless, I believe he wold be probably even better with the new ball due to his brilliant seam position and release.
 
No need to give him the new ball just because he can bowl with the new ball.
His middle overs have turned the tournament. for Pakistan.

Amir/Junaid/Rumman can never do what Hasan is doing in the middle overs.
 
He's even more lethal with the new ball taking the ball away and seaming it back a yard. If conditions and bowl quality are good, he can get it to shape both ways.

However this kookaburra is not going to swing in England so it would be stupid to give him the new ball now as he hasn't had any practice with it.
 
with the field restrictions from 11-40 overs Hasan needs to bowl in those overs as most attacking teams score big in middle overs now.
 
The thing is that Junaid or Aamir can't be as impactful as Hassan Ali in the middle overs. I think Hassan definitely will be a handful with the new ball. He will at some point get the new ball. for now it's more in the teams interest that he doesn't.
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
No need to give him the new ball just because he can bowl with the new ball.
His middle overs have turned the tournament. for Pakistan.

Amir/Junaid/Rumman can never do what Hasan is doing in the middle overs.
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Amir/Junaid/Rumman cannot do what Hasan does period.

Because he's our best bowler.

And you should give your best bowler the best possible chance against your opposition's most important players.

It is just common sense.

Why would you want to let their top three settle? Do you want their wickets, yes or no?

Amir has done nothing with the new ball yet. So why give it to him again?

He has been most effective, relatively speaking, when coming on to bowl in the late middle overs, when the ball is reversing.

But we don't yet know if it will reverse. Pitch may not be as abrasive.

Junaid has been good with the new ball and should open with Hasan.

I think the strategy should be to go at them relentlessly.

If Rumman plays he can be trusted with slog over duties, that is his speciality.
 
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proud_pakistani said:
The thing is that Junaid or Aamir can't be as impactful as Hassan Ali in the middle overs. I think Hassan definitely will be a handful with the new ball. He will at some point get the new ball. for now it's more in the teams interest that he doesn't.
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I don't understand the reasoning. Is the point of the game to make Junaid and Amir look good or to take wickets?
 
I think it's all about continuing with what's working.

Amir and Junaid are proven new ball bowlers. It's smarter to let them have it and then bring Hasan Ali in as the next weapon.
 
He's doing fine in the middle overs.

Don't mind though in then future to try it out.
 
New Yorker said:
Amir/Junaid/Rumman cannot do what Hasan does period.

Because he's our best bowler.

And you should give your best bowler the best possible chance against your opposition's most important players.

It is just common sense.

Why would you want to let their top three settle? Do you want their wickets, yes or no?

Amir has done nothing with the new ball yet. So why give it to him again?

He has been most effective, relatively speaking, when coming on to bowl in the late middle overs, when the ball is reversing.

But we don't yet know if it will reverse. Pitch may not be as abrasive.

Junaid has been good with the new ball and should open with Hasan.

I think the strategy should be to go at them relentlessly.

If Rumman plays he can be trusted with slog over duties, that is his speciality.
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He can definitely bowl with the new ball but for team combination right now its better to do what we did in last few matches imo. We restricted teams to 220s and can restrict India to 250/260 with similar strategy. Also sometimes I get a feeling that Hasan is someone who requires field protection before being settled. Saw him at times losing his confidence after being smashed in the powerplay.
 
Sarfraz has started using him a lot better now .
Love the attacking intent in the middle overs . Much better breakdown of his spell than when he was almost exclusively kept for the death with a 4 over spell in the middle.
Not this tournament but i think he will eventually take the new ball for pakistan . Too good a bowler not too .
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
He can definitely bowl with the new ball but for team combination right now its better to do what we did in last few matches imo. We restricted teams to 220s and can restrict India to 250/260 with similar strategy. Also sometimes I get a feeling that Hasan is someone who requires field protection before being settled. Saw him at times losing his confidence after being smashed in the powerplay.
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So could you explain what you mean by team combination? Because Amir is actually doing better in the middle and late overs than in the opening ones. He hasn't taken a wicket with the new ball yet.
 
New Yorker said:
So could you explain what you mean by team combination? Because Amir is actually doing better in the middle and late overs than in the opening ones. He hasn't taken a wicket with the new ball yet.
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I mean a similar bowling strategy to last games.
Amir isnt taking wickets but doing okish to restrict opposition in powerplays and then Hasan coming in ~12th over taking 1-2 key wickets. I fear that Hasan opening might go for runs, lose his confidence and then Amir wont be able to do what Hasan is doing now i[e taking wickets in first stage of middle overs.
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
He can definitely bowl with the new ball but for team combination right now its better to do what we did in last few matches imo. We restricted teams to 220s and can restrict India to 250/260 with similar strategy. Also sometimes I get a feeling that Hasan is someone who requires field protection before being settled. Saw him at times losing his confidence after being smashed in the powerplay.
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Interesting about field protection. Could be true of course. As for strategy, failing to adapt to the opposition and pitch is what lost England their game against us. We should learn also their lesson. I think we need to play it a bit differently against India at the Oval and I would see Hasan taking the new ball as being one positive adjustment. Barring that, as Peter Rose pointed out, bring him in sooner if Amir is failing to make an impact again.
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
I mean a similar bowling strategy to last games.
Amir isnt taking wickets but doing okish to restrict opposition in powerplays and then Hasan coming in ~12th over taking 1-2 key wickets. I fear that Hasan opening might go for runs, lose his confidence and then Amir wont be able to do what Hasan is doing now i[e taking wickets in first stage of middle overs.
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That's just a very defensive mindset to me, and really plays into the Indian strategy of playing relatively cautiously in the first overs. They dont mind being restricted, which is why playing Imad Wasim was a dubious strategy. Jarrod Kimber was on about this. The way to shift around the bowling work load would not be to bowl Hasan less in the middle overs, because yes I agree Amir would not do as good a job there, but to use him less in the end overs. I think both Amir and Rumman have been good in the closing overs. You could bowl Hasan 3-4 with the new ball, 4-5 in the middle, and if necessary 1-2 in the closing. If India have wickets in hand by the 40th over I think it will be difficult to contain them on this pitch.
 
ethan hunt said:
Can easily give him 3 or 4 overs at the start .
He needs to be used as an attacking option . Stop treating him as a death specialist.
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What is the need of doing so....
he is getting sucess in the middle overs and at the death..... why the hell would any captain want to change it
 
Hamza_ said:
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] He bowled with new ball for Zalmi in PSL every match. Watch his spell in semi final with new ball, got a cracking outswing with new ball.
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No captain would like to do so especially in a Champions Trophy final.... Psl and this league system doesn't matter at all
 
Uman Naq said:
What is the need of doing so....
he is getting sucess in the middle overs and at the death..... why the hell would any captain want to change it
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Nothing controversial. TV commies were suggesting as much a few games into the tournament. It's all the more a question for the final. Hasan, also Amir and Junaid, have been taking wickets because the ball has been scuffed up reverse swing. But this was in Cardiff. Scuffing may not happen in the final. The pitch is much flatter and fresh. So the best chance for the pacers to take wickets would with the new ball. And India's best batsmen are the ones facing the new ball. He's our best pacer, and the alternative, Amir hasn't taken a single wicket with the new ball so far.
 
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I think he gets a lot of wickets because other teams have looked to attack him rather than Amir, Junaid or the spinners. Indians will be cautious against him and he won't be as effective. Amir and JK are the key bowlers here, if they can manage to get 1-2 early breakthroughs, especially Kohli, then it will give a big boost to the other bowlers.
 
sjahmed23 said:
I think he gets a lot of wickets because other teams have looked to attack him rather than Amir, Junaid or the spinners. Indians will be cautious against him and he won't be as effective. Amir and JK are the key bowlers here, if they can manage to get 1-2 early breakthroughs, especially Kohli, then it will give a big boost to the other bowlers.
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From interview with Azhar today we learn that he thinks Hasan is better with the old ball. What a pity.
 
Why can't Sarfaraz Ahmed give Hassan Ali the new ball?

Sarfraz has to show more flexibility in his captaincy, let Hasan Ali bowl with the new ball.

Hasan Ali being first change bowler has worked in the past but you need to be adaptive with Ruman Raees and Amir being totally ineffective.
 
I hope the immature keyboard warriors on this forum have had their answer today. Hasan is not a new ball bowler anymore. Why should he be made one just to fulfill your fantasy? He sprang up to the top of the rankings by picking wickets in the middle overs.

Faheem's experiment and now this Hasan disaster should tell PPers they should keep quiet about stuff they have no idea about. Bashing the people in charge (selectors, coach or captain), who have actually played cricket and know a thing or two about this game is easy but highly unfair. Watch the match, have a good time but don't comment on stuff that is clearly beyond your understanding.
 
Usman Chadda said:
I hope the immature keyboard warriors on this forum have had their answer today. Hasan is not a new ball bowler anymore. Why should he be made one just to fulfill your fantasy? He sprang up to the top of the rankings by picking wickets in the middle overs.

Faheem's experiment and now this Hasan disaster should tell PPers they should keep quiet about stuff they have no idea about. Bashing the people in charge (selectors, coach or captain), who have actually played cricket and know a thing or two about this game is easy but highly unfair. Watch the match, have a good time but don't comment on stuff that is clearly beyond your understanding.
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Hasan or Faheem need to be given consistent chances with the new ball, only then can a true assessment can be made whether these guys need to come second change or be dropped from the team. If anything, it is the fraudulent Amir who needs be dropped and be asked to earn back his place in the team.
 
Savak said:
Hasan or Faheem need to be given consistent chances with the new ball, only then can a true assessment can be made whether these guys need to come second change or be dropped from the team. If anything, it is the fraudulent Amir who needs be dropped and be asked to earn back his place in the team.
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Hasan looked out of sorts. It was clear. A team is made with roles in mind. As fans we are impatient and do not really understand cricket to think about these things properly.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Hasan looked out of sorts. It was clear. A team is made with roles in mind. As fans we are impatient and do not really understand cricket to think about these things properly.
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Amir is playing the role of the pace bowling Zulfiqar Babar beautifully
 
Savak said:
Amir is playing the role of the pace bowling Zulfiqar Babar beautifully
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Amir is not trusting himself to beat the batters in the air. A strike bowler delivering rubbish back-of-length deliveries consistently means he is off mentally.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Amir is not trusting himself to beat the batters in the air. A strike bowler delivering rubbish back-of-length deliveries consistently means he is off mentally.
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Honestly, he needs to go back and reevaluate his game and come back with a fresh mind. This back of the length rubbish is not needed. We expect him to provide early breakthroughs and he has consistently failed to do that.
 
mmkextreme_1 said:
Honestly, he needs to go back and reevaluate his game and come back with a fresh mind. This back of the length rubbish is not needed. We expect him to provide early breakthroughs and he has consistently failed to do that.
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I think there's something wrong with him psychologically. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity. This cannot be more applicable to anyone other than Amir.
 
Hasan Ali deserves the new ball. The problem is that people are expecting him to continue his 2017 form forever. Unless he is the best ODI pacer of all time, which he is not, he cannot keep up that level of performance.

He is a very good bowler who was going through a purple patch. However, he is still our strike bowler and miles better than all of our other pacers.
 
He looked lethal with the new ball against Shafiq, Nawaz and the English overseas
 
Amir out of the team but Hassan still doesn't get the new ball.

It seems the management view him as a middle overs bowler.
 
Third time this PSL he has got a wicket in his first over. Highest number of wickets in powerplay (1-6) in PSL (all seasons). Hope Mickey/Sarfaraz are watching.

Getting the ball to deck at Sharjah!
 
Give Hasan Ali the new ball

This experiment of giving the newball to Faheem Ashraf needs to end.
Hassan is an attacking bowler , bring him and Shaheen in with the new ball and attack.
These guys are not defensive death overs options.
 
Hasnain is too raw and Faheem is pathetic. Can't believe we had Amir and Junaid on the bench and we fielded this bowling attack. Shaheen is good but he cannot be leader of the attack. You can only play one teenager in your attack. Otherwise you get a phainti like we did today.
 
Drop Faheem and just hope shadab comes back. He may not be the best but still he's something.
 
Completely agree with this. He looked a completely different bowler in the PSL with the new ball. To win games, you need to strike upfront
 
Syed1 said:
Hasnain is too raw and Faheem is pathetic. Can't believe we had Amir and Junaid on the bench and we fielded this bowling attack. Shaheen is good but he cannot be leader of the attack. You can only play one teenager in your attack. Otherwise you get a phainti like we did today.
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Yeah Hasnain, the best pacer today.
 
Hassan Ali bowled 1st over in every match of PSL and 5th change today?

Its just mind boggling to see someone who you say is your spearhead, who was successfully bowling 1,2 overs in every match in PSL with new ball and getting it to move is suddenly moved to 5th change today.

Why is he being forced to become only an old ball bowler or a death bowler?

No point in forcing your plans on players without understanding what tole they are comfortable performing.

Pakistan have been struggling for wickets with the new ball and you have got a wicket taking bowler which you dont ball with new ball or dont even try him for that role.
 
I think [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] can explain the profound wisdom of Sarfraz behind this decision.

I for one think Hassan and SSA were rusty and will come back strongly in the next match.
 
All things going wrong.

Weird captaincy by Sarfraz today.

Expected better from him.
 
In the first 5 overs of England's innings, Sarfraz used 5 different bowlers. All hail Captain Fantastic.
 
Markhor said:
In the first 5 overs of England's innings, Sarfraz used 5 different bowlers. All hail Captain Fantastic.
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Yeah when other captains do it is considered aggression and not letting the batsmen settle, but when Sarf does it he is labelled as Captain Fantastic.


I see not a word about Inzi imposing his pathetic nephew on us and also selecting his buddy Shah who isn't even the best spinner in LQ let alone Pakistan.
 
Syed1 said:
Yeah when other captains do it is considered aggression and not letting the batsmen settle, but when Sarf does it he is labelled as Captain Fantastic.


I see not a word about Inzi imposing his pathetic nephew on us and also selecting his buddy Shah who isn't even the best spinner in LQ let alone Pakistan.
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[MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION]

this guy is still going on about imam ul haq yet not a word against our specialist kaptaan that can't even kaptaan. :))
 
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