Why doesn't Indonesia have much clout as an Islamic country?

[Varun]

They're home to the largest Muslim population in the world, and yet you hear precious little about them, and much of the thrust comes from Saudi Arabia, Turkey and among the Shias, Iran.

What gives? Does geography play a part? Or is their version of Islam significantly different from that practiced elsewhere? Are there no major mosques and pilgrimage destinations to be found in that part of the world?

 

[Rishta Aunty]

A lot of the factors that you mentioned. They have a very moderate strain of Islam, a strong economy and a generally peaceful society. No of that stuff is interesting from a news point of view

 

[troodon]

I find indonesians fascinating. Many have Hindu names, but they are Muslims. Probably they are not influenced by the hardline Islam yet.

Recently Indonesia was in the News where they wanted to oust the Mayor just because he was christian.

https://world.wng.org/2016/11/islamic_hardliners_protest_christian_mayor_in_indonesia

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What is it we are supposed to be looking at as far as Indonesia is concerned?

 

[Yossarian]

I was going to ask the same question of the OP. What is it we are supposed to be looking at as far as Indonesia is concerned?

I believe he's confusing clout with being able to shout the loudest and create the most havoc.
Indonesia's (and Malaysia's) 'clout' can be seen in the fact they're relatively peaceful and successful economies, their peoples have decent standards of living (in comparison with, say, the asian/subcontinental states to their west/north-west), they are not on war footings most of the time, they have warm weather all year around, and are surrounded by the most wonderful flora and fauna. Yep, they have plenty of 'clout', the type that Pakistanis and Indians can only dream of;

 

[cricketworm]

May be they are politically stable. Hard to topple government by western countries?

 

[DeadBall]

They're home to the largest Muslim population in the world, and yet you hear precious little about them, and much of the thrust comes from Saudi Arabia, Turkey and among the Shias, Iran.

What gives? Does geography play a part? Or is their version of Islam significantly different from that practiced elsewhere? Are there no major mosques and pilgrimage destinations to be found in that part of the world?

Not as much widespread illiteracy, not much historical conflict regarding religion with their neighbors nor too emotional like the Desis.

 

[Pakistanian]

Geography is the biggest reason. They're too far east to have any role in the greater middle east.

 

[Pakistanian]

Not as much widespread illiteracy, not much historical conflict regarding religion with their neighbors nor too emotional like the Desis.

Indonesians are actually very emotional like desis. Having an Arab mother does not make you an Arab.

 

[ManFan]

They do not worship figures in politics.

 

[Syed1]

I never met an Indonesian in my life. Surprising. I'm sure Canada must have a ton of them, you come across plenty of Malaysians/Filipinos (the other two major SEA nations) but never Indonesians. Where are they hidden?

 

[DeadBall]

I never met an Indonesian in my life. Surprising. I'm sure Canada must have a ton of them, you come across plenty of Malaysians/Filipinos (the other two major SEA nations) but never Indonesians. Where are they hidden?

Know quite a few but they were mostly servants/drivers in the Gulf states so most probably were just keeping their opinions to themselves. Had a couple of friends study there and they described them as quite easy going.

 

[Pakistanian]

I never met an Indonesian in my life. Surprising. I'm sure Canada must have a ton of them, you come across plenty of Malaysians/Filipinos (the other two major SEA nations) but never Indonesians. Where are they hidden?

They prefer the Netherlands cause they were once a dutch colony.

 

[PakLFC]

I think Indonesians still practise many Hindu rituals and seem culturally Hindu as well. Also, seeing there demographic status they are more or less isolated from other Muslim countries. Same can be said about majority Muslim Malaysia as well.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think Indonesians still practise many Hindu rituals and seem culturally Hindu as well. Also, seeing there demographic status they are more or less isolated from other Muslim countries. Same can be said about majority Muslim Malaysia as well.

I see, knowing the OP, he is one of the "Hey, I'm not really a Hindu, I'm an atheist, but it's really ok to be both and also a Modi/BJP/RSS fan" type. See Oopar Cut as another one of those.

But anyway, I think if Indonesians still hold to their traditional Hindu culture minus all the horrible caste stuff, that is great. Possibly a case of Islam cleaning out the rubbish and keeping the good. Best of both worlds.

 

[Greenstorm]

Because Islam and culture are different things.

 

[barah_admi]

They're home to the largest Muslim population in the world, and yet you hear precious little about them, and much of the thrust comes from Saudi Arabia, Turkey and among the Shias, Iran.

What gives? Does geography play a part? Or is their version of Islam significantly different from that practiced elsewhere? Are there no major mosques and pilgrimage destinations to be found in that part of the world?

Hear about in which way?

I mean they don't have much political clout but then again, what do we know what happens behind the scenes. Political clout is pretty difficult to gauge unless you have done extensive research on the matter.

 

[PakLFC]

I see, knowing the OP, he is one of the "Hey, I'm not really a Hindu, I'm an atheist, but it's really ok to be both and also a Modi/BJP/RSS fan" type. See Oopar Cut as another one of those.

But anyway, I think if Indonesians still hold to their traditional Hindu culture minus all the horrible caste stuff, that is great. Possibly a case of Islam cleaning out the rubbish and keeping the good. Best of both worlds.

Did I say anything against Hindu culture? As I say like Malaysia the country of Indonesia is far from the Muslim world. It is good to know that some Muslim countries are still peaceful! I got nothing against Hindu's or Atheists.

 

[Robert]

I believe he's confusing clout with being able to shout the loudest and create the most havoc.
Indonesia's (and Malaysia's) 'clout' can be seen in the fact they're relatively peaceful and successful economies, their peoples have decent standards of living (in comparison with, say, the asian/subcontinental states to their west/north-west), they are not on war footings most of the time, they have warm weather all year around, and are surrounded by the most wonderful flora and fauna. Yep, they have plenty of 'clout', the type that Pakistanis and Indians can only dream of;

Good post.

Yep, they just quietly succeed. Good on ‘em.

 

[Gilly]

Good post.

Yep, they just quietly succeed. Good on ‘em.

Good on 'em

Say Robert did you know that the Indonesians are quietly slaughtering West Papuans.

The Papuans have conducted various protests and ceremonies raising their flag for independence or federation with Papua New Guinea,[7] and accuse the Indonesian government of indiscriminate violence and of suppressing their freedom of expression. Over 500,000 Papuans have been killed, and thousands more have been raped, tortured and imprisoned by the Indonesian military since 1969 and the Indonesian governance style has been compared to that of a police state, suppressing freedom of political association and political expression.[8] The Indonesian Government restricts foreign access to the Papua and West Papua provinces due to sensitivities regarding its suppression of Papuan nationalism.

I'm glad you support this genocide.

 

[Robert]

Good on 'em

Say Robert did you know that the Indonesians are quietly slaughtering West Papuans.

I'm glad you support this genocide.

No I didn’t, and there is no need to be sarcastic.

 

[gani999]

I used to know many Indonesians when I was living in The Netherlands. Many of them were restaurant owners.

It is hard to come across a friendlier and sweeter set of people. They are muslims and can be quite conservative, but are among the most tolerant and accepting of other people.

I love their cuisine. It is a strange but delicious mix of Chinese, South Indian and Middle eastern influences. I miss it terribly in France, where not one Indonesian restaurant is to be found.

Maybe Indonesia doesn't have much clout because they mind their own business and don't make much noise. It is only the empty vessels that tend to get heard.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Why is Indonesia so unimportant in the Muslim World?

Despite having the largest muslim population in the world, Indonesia has little importance or authority in the muslim world. It's not like India either where there are 200+ million muslims but they make up only 15 percent of India's total population.
Muslims make up 90% of Indonesia's.

 

[Bigboii]

They don't get involved in Muslim politics (of countries)

 

[Ronaldo7]

They don't get involved in Muslim politics (of countries)

Due to their geographical location i assume

 

[hafeezrocks]

Unimportant just like Bangaldesh right? Or Bangaldesh is even more unimportant ?

I think one of the reasons could be its geographical location which is far away from Middle East, the Birthplace of Islam and the Rich Islamic Kingdoms that followed in Central Asia/Iran.

Another factor could be lack of resources- No Oil or any other important strategical Geolocation that could make them a target of invasions by Imperial Powers - thus nobody cares what happens in thousands of Islands comprising Indonesia.

Another factor could be language barrier. Indonesians dont have either a strong Arabic, French or English Colonial Background , thats the one reason so few Indonesians are found in Western Countries compared to lets see Filipinos who are found in every corner of the World - Indonesians for some reason arent too enthusiastic about working and settling in foreign countries.

Indians, Pakistanis go to UK and other English speaking Countries.

West African migrants go to France, Belgium. Where can Indonesians go?

Personal experience with a few Indonesians has been that they are extremely laidback and easy going like other east asians unlike the aggressive South Asians and Arabs.

 

[sweep_shot]

I guess they don't get involved much voluntarily. A bit like Switzerland.

 

[Varun]

I created a similar thread a few years ago:

Why doesn't Indonesia have much clout as an Islamic country?
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...donesia-have-much-clout-as-an-Islamic-country

 

[cricketjoshila]

With a GDP of over a trillion dollars they leave most islamic countries way behind.

But they keep to themselves. Dont seem to think they need to poke their noses into others business.

They have a large minority which seem to be doing well.

They also dont seem to be in any hurry to abandon their non muslim history and gladly accept that.

They are located in a strategic IOR and also have significant coal and oil reserves.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Due to their geographical location i assume

Malaysia is a neighbour and they get involved all the time.

Its more like Indonesia doesn't think its their business.

 

[sweep_shot]

I think many East Asian countries tend to be self-centered and isolated. It is not just Indonesia. It is also applicable to Brunei, Singapore etc.

It has more to do with culture than anything else.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Would like to learn a bit more about Indonesia actually. This thread could actually be quite educational with some sensible input.

 

[Pakistanian]

Geography and Culture.

Indonesia is in the far east, it's far far away from major theaters of geopolitics in the Muslim world such as Israel-Palestine, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt, Turkey and KSA. Even Somalia and Azerbaijan have more relevance because of their proximity to these major theaters of conflict and significance. Also culturally southeast Asians don't seem to be very interested in activism, they're timid and peaceful people that are more focused on their economy.

 

[topspin]

Geography and Culture.

Indonesia is in the far east, it's far far away from major theaters of geopolitics in the Muslim world such as Israel-Palestine, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt, Turkey and KSA. Even Somalia and Azerbaijan have more relevance because of their proximity to these major theaters of conflict and significance. Also culturally southeast Asians don't seem to be very interested in activism, they're timid and peaceful people that are more focused on their economy.

Agreed 100%. Very well put.

 

[Itachi]

Ive lots of Indonesian friends. Most are nurses.

In my personal experience, they put the nation first and then religion. Hence, they do whats best for Indonesia. And since lots of politics involved in the Muslim countries of affairs, they keep themselves away and maintain a balance of neither too close nor too distant.

 

[Slog]

As for Indonesia.

They don’t get involved in others matter and don’t let others get involved in theirs. It’s peaceful living.

Also the way Islam spread there is interesting. It was very peaceful and no wars were fought so there’s no history like that. It was spread through Muslim traders. The locals at the time saw the superior and advanced practices of such traders and preachers and accepted Islam and the people who didn’t accept didn’t take it as a threat and start battles.

 

[Pakistanian]

As for Indonesia.

They don’t get involved in others matter and don’t let others get involved in theirs. It’s peaceful living.

Also the way Islam spread there is interesting. It was very peaceful and no wars were fought so there’s no history like that. It was spread through Muslim traders. The locals at the time saw the superior and advanced practices of such traders and preachers and accepted Islam and the people who didn’t accept didn’t take it as a threat and start battles.

Tbf Indonesia did/still has issues with it's Papuan minority who aren't Muslims, and they had a separatist insurgency in East Timor resulting in them seceding, although to their credit they did let go of East Timor unlike Indian still occupying Kashmir.

 

[cricketjoshila]

As for Indonesia.

They don’t get involved in others matter and don’t let others get involved in theirs. It’s peaceful living.

Also the way Islam spread there is interesting. It was very peaceful and no wars were fought so there’s no history like that. It was spread through Muslim traders. The locals at the time saw the superior and advanced practices of such traders and preachers and accepted Islam and the people who didn’t accept didn’t take it as a threat and start battles.

Islam was adopted into Indonesia through proselytism. Islamic scholars came with traders and spread islam by converting the royal families of various provinces, starting with sumatra.

Superior Advance practices. Who tells you these stories in this age and day?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Islam was adopted into Indonesia through proselytism. Islamic scholars came with traders and spread islam by converting the royal families of various provinces, starting with sumatra.

Superior Advance practices. Who tells you these stories in this age and day?

Thats quite interesting. What convinced the royal families to listen to the preachers?

By all accounts the preachers were unarmed and the royal armys werent forced. I'd also imagine that by their very nature of being a 'royal' family that they weren't bribed to convert either. Interested in your opinion.

 

[Slog]

Islam was adopted into Indonesia through proselytism. Islamic scholars came with traders and spread islam by converting the royal families of various provinces, starting with sumatra.

Superior Advance practices. Who tells you these stories in this age and day?

Well they did leave their old practices without being forced to and saw what they deemed as superior. Just dropping some facts.

 

[Yossarian]

I believe he's confusing clout with being able to shout the loudest and create the most havoc.
Indonesia's (and Malaysia's) 'clout' can be seen in the fact they're relatively peaceful and successful economies, their peoples have decent standards of living (in comparison with, say, the asian/subcontinental states to their west/north-west), they are not on war footings most of the time, they have warm weather all year around, and are surrounded by the most wonderful flora and fauna. Yep, they have plenty of 'clout', the type that Pakistanis and Indians can only dream of;

bump

 

[Pakistanian]

bump

I believe he's confusing clout with being able to shout the loudest and create the most havoc.
Indonesia's (and Malaysia's) 'clout' can be seen in the fact they're relatively peaceful and successful economies, their peoples have decent standards of living (in comparison with, say, the asian/subcontinental states to their west/north-west), they are not on war footings most of the time, they have warm weather all year around, and are surrounded by the most wonderful flora and fauna. Yep, they have plenty of 'clout', the type that Pakistanis and Indians can only dream of;

Uh you're way off the mark. While those countries have become very successful economically but this question is about their "clout" which in twitter/ig language means influence. These countries particularly Indonesia holds very little clout in the Muslim world, whether is intentional or not. That's not necessarily a bad thing, they're just in their own world divorced from the conflicts and geopolitics of the "Greater Middle East" and that's pretty much because of how FAR away they are from the rest of the Muslim world and its main theaters of conflict, so they can afford a more isolationist policy. Also because of this geographical and cultural distance, there is quite a bit of ignorance about the issues in the rest of the muslim world in SEA (Southeast Asia) and vice versa.

 

[sweep_shot]

I have never met an Indonesian in my whole life.

There are 195 countries in the world. Some countries are bound to go unnoticed. For example, there is a country called Tuvalu. I never knew about them until recently.

 

[angrypathan]

I have never met an Indonesian in my whole life.

There are 195 countries in the world. Some countries are bound to go unnoticed. For example, there is a country called Tuvalu. I never knew about them until recently.

Tuvalu has a population of under 12,000. Indonesia has a population of over 260 million. Among countries with populations of over 50 million they are probably the least influential when it comes to global geopolitics

 

[Colorblind Genius]

They're home to the largest Muslim population in the world, and yet you hear precious little about them, and much of the thrust comes from Saudi Arabia, Turkey and among the Shias, Iran.

What gives? Does geography play a part? Or is their version of Islam significantly different from that practiced elsewhere? Are there no major mosques and pilgrimage destinations to be found in that part of the world?

They don’t have oil.

 

[MenInG]

Ok this discussion is about Indonesia.

Next off topic post will be deleted.

 

[Yossarian]

Uh you're way off the mark. While those countries have become very successful economically but this question is about their "clout" which in twitter/ig language means influence. These countries particularly Indonesia holds very little clout in the Muslim world, whether is intentional or not. That's not necessarily a bad thing, they're just in their own world divorced from the conflicts and geopolitics of the "Greater Middle East" and that's pretty much because of how FAR away they are from the rest of the Muslim world and its main theaters of conflict, so they can afford a more isolationist policy. Also because of this geographical and cultural distance, there is quite a bit of ignorance about the issues in the rest of the muslim world in SEA (Southeast Asia) and vice versa.

Nope. I'm not "way off the mark", but simply realistic.

Fact of the matter is that the role of the government, any government, is (or should be) to keep it's citizens safe, content, ideally with an element of freedom of thought, expression and lifestyle, along with a decent quality of living standards. And all economic, foreign, military and strategic policies should be geared towards that end.

Look at the likes of Switzerland and Sweden. Not much 'clout' on the international stage (and way less than countries supposedly with bigger 'clout') in the manner you describe 'clout'. But which countries citizen would you would rather be given the choice.?

As I said, Indonesia (and Malaysia) have relatively peaceful and successful economies, their peoples have decent standards of living (in comparison with, say, the asian/subcontinental states to their west/north-west), they are not on war footings most of the time, they have warm weather all year around, and are surrounded by the most wonderful flora and fauna. And I'm betting that the average Pakistani / Indian would much rather live in such a 'cloutless' country given the choice than live in India or Pakistan.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Nope. I'm not "way off the mark", but simply realistic.

Fact of the matter is that the role of the government, any government, is (or should be) to keep it's citizens safe, content, ideally with an element of freedom of thought, expression and lifestyle, along with a decent quality of living standards. And all economic, foreign, military and strategic policies should be geared towards that end.

Look at the likes of Switzerland and Sweden. Not much 'clout' on the international stage (and way less than countries supposedly with bigger 'clout') in the manner you describe 'clout'. But which countries citizen would you would rather be given the choice.?

As I said, Indonesia (and Malaysia) have relatively peaceful and successful economies, their peoples have decent standards of living (in comparison with, say, the asian/subcontinental states to their west/north-west), they are not on war footings most of the time, they have warm weather all year around, and are surrounded by the most wonderful flora and fauna. And I'm betting that the average Pakistani / Indian would much rather live in such a 'cloutless' country given the choice than live in India or Pakistan.

You are answering a different question to what the OP is asking.

 

[Greenstorm]

Indonesians are generally more religious as compared to subcontinental Muslims and this tendency towards religion is increasing with time. There is also a growing sense of Muslim brotherhood which should result in more political clout in future.

Pakistani soldiers laid down their lives in Indonesia in war against Dutch colonials. Indonesians deployed their Navy in aid of Pakistan during 1965 conflict.
They have been quitely doing their part and there 'role' will increase in future.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Indonesians are generally more religious as compared to subcontinental Muslims and this tendency towards religion is increasing with time. There is also a growing sense of Muslim brotherhood which should result in more political clout in future.

Pakistani soldiers laid down their lives in Indonesia in war against Dutch colonials. Indonesians deployed their Navy in aid of Pakistan during 1965 conflict.
They have been quitely doing their part and there 'role' will increase in future.

Indonesia do have a very good army. But their area is peaceful right now so don't think they really need to anything.

 

[Gilly]

Indonesia do have a very good army. But their area is peaceful right now so don't think they really need to anything.

The Indonesian air force has been trained by Australia receiving planes and navy boats from Australia. Australia is active in supplying foreign aid to Indonesia.

 

[Yossarian]

You are answering a different question to what the OP is asking.

Because it's a meaningless question.

For the daily life of the average citizen, their country having a lot of 'clout' is meaningless unless it leads to improvements to his/her quality of life and those of his/her loved ones.

The rest is meaningless chest thumping.

 

[Varun]

Look at the likes of Switzerland and Sweden. Not much 'clout' on the international stage (and way less than countries supposedly with bigger 'clout') in the manner you describe 'clout'. But which countries citizen would you would rather be given the choice.?

We'll leave aside the smaller matter of Switzerland being the monopoly treasurer of the world's financial system, and Sweden's world famous corporations like Saab, IKEA, Volvo, H&M, Ericsson and Spotify.

What does Indonesia have to show?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

We'll leave aside the smaller matter of Switzerland being the monopoly treasurer of the world's financial system, and Sweden's world famous corporations like Saab, IKEA, Volvo, H&M, Ericsson and Spotify.

What does Indonesia have to show?

Why does it need to show anything?

 

[Yossarian]

We'll leave aside the smaller matter of Switzerland being the monopoly treasurer of the world's financial system, and Sweden's world famous corporations like Saab, IKEA, Volvo, H&M, Ericsson and Spotify.

What does Indonesia have to show?

That's the whole point. It doesn't need to show anything to anybody. It's not a beauty contest or a chest thumping contest. It's priority should be (and so should every other governments be) to keep it's citizens safe, whilst also improving their living standards. In that regard, its doing a far better job than the likes of Pakistan or India.

 

[Lonewarrior]

 

[AdamM97]

Because people usually imagine Arabs whenever they hear Muslims. Most people don’t imagine Indonesians, Bangladeshis or Malians when they think of Muslims.
Muslims and Arabs are used interchangeably in the west.