Why has the Pakistani pace attack failed in New Zealand?

[Savak]

These are over cast windy, chilly conditions unlike the oppressive heat of UAE. The bowlers have shown absolutely zero skill level with the ball, gun barrel straight stuff, no idea about what line and length to bowl on these pitches which is inexcusable given that this is the 5th match on the tour now which means they should have had time to aclimitize to the conditions.

Something for Azhar Mahmood the bowling coach to answer for.

Mohd Amir is the biggest fraud, proving that the spot fixing scandal actually served him well in the long run. Had this guy been Rahat Ali, Wahab Riaz, Imran Khan, Sohail Khan he would have been shown the door by now.

 

[Aman]

They've bowled the wrong lengths and haven't been able to bowl well enough consistently to put pressure on our batsmen.

 

[mkyawar]

because our bowlers prefer dry, abrasive surfaces. they have not been taught how to swing the new ball. They are taught how to reverse it. Sadly our young bowlers reverse it rather than swing apart from mohammad abbas

 

[Savak]

They've bowled the wrong lengths and haven't been able to bowl well enough consistently to put pressure on our batsmen.

because our bowlers prefer dry, abrasive surfaces. they have not been taught how to swing the new ball. They are taught how to reverse it. Sadly our young bowlers reverse it rather than swing apart from mohammad abbas

Not a good enough excuse. This is the 5th match on the tour now, that is more than enough time to understand the local conditions and adjust. Squad selection may be poor, execution may be poor but Azhar Mahmood the bowling coach needs to answer questions here.

 

[Rafa]

Amir is a very ordinary bowler and not the second coming of Wasim that was predicted. His ouster from Cricket for a period of 5 years actually put him on a high pedestal and a saviour that would take Pakistan Cricket to new highs.

 

[Savak]

Amir is a very ordinary bowler and not the second coming of Wasim that was predicted. His ouster from Cricket for a period of 5 years actually put him on a high pedestal and a saviour that would take Pakistan Cricket to new highs.

The likes of Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib especially in their primes would always look worldclass and pick up wickets devastatingly even if they were carrying the bowling attack on their own or when the opposition was conscious enough to be careful against them.

Amir is so easily managable as a net bowler when the opposition decides to be careful against him.

 

[Amjid Javed]

This is pakistans 3rd tour to Kiwi land in last few years, whilst bowlers may have changed abit we should have better bowling plans for these conditions now.

 

[Buffet]

Hasan has a relatively bad tour, but not sure who else was even expected to do well?

 

[Hamstead_joy]

What Azhar Mahmood shared with the media before the tour some of it never transpired. Shoaib Malik was suppose to fill in the role of Hafeez in the middle overs, Amir was suppose to come hard on the kiwis with the new bowl. It took team management 3 odis to convince Shoaib Malik to bowl. Amir was a huge flop. The seniors[the automatic selections] collectively destroyed our chances in whatever they did from pace bowling to middle order batting.

Minus todays dead rubber, Hasan Ali was good in the tournament with the bowl and the bat. After losing the series it is natural, bowling goes down. Amir and Wahab Riaz should be kept away from the team as far as possible which is why its dire selection committee is removed. Its failed to build the Pakistan team or provide it with the necessary alternatives.

 

[Madplayer]

These spongy wickets dont suit Pakistani bowlers. Need taller bowlers here.

 

[Fahdi]

The good bowlers i.e. Shadab and Hassan did well. The ordinary bowlers were ordinary. That is all.

 

[Markhor]

Bowling too short with the new ball - too often we've been bowling deliveries that sit up nicely just waiting to be whacked.

We are too used to bowling back of a length in UAE.

 

[coy0607]

Saying Pakistani pacers have failed is an overstatement

They haven't run thru the NZ batting, but I'd hardly say they failed.

Remember these are generally very flat tracks and smallish grounds. You can argue bowlers have done well to not have given up 350 a single time. Or 300+ just once

Our pathetic batsmen make conditions look better for bowling then they actually are

 

[Saj]

Bowling the wrong length
Fitness issues
A lack of consistency in line or length
A lack of aggression
Poor utilisation of the bowlers by the skipper
Lack of yorkers
Not bowling to their field

 

[New Yorker]

These spongy wickets dont suit Pakistani bowlers. Need taller bowlers here.

Maybe like the guy Sadaf who is 6 5', gets bounce, can swing it both ways, bowls yorkers on demand, was top wicket taker in this year's Departmental Cup, averages 18 in List A, has been man of the match in two A team tourney's and has previously been given the nod by selectors for the national team. Nah. Back to Wahab.

 

[dauntless]

Well if you have trundlers like rumman raees in the team what can one expect.Amir's time is up too.He should be dropped and i don't know if there is enough talent left in domestics.Hasan is having a bad series but still he picked up 6 wickets.He is the only bowler worth playing

 

[MoJoJoJo]

bowling at poor lengths.. i was amazed how accurate nz were in this series in their line length in the starting overs.. while our bowlers kept hitting shorter lengths and got smashed every time...

 

[MMHS]

For years of dull cricket on UAE dross and even poor domestic wickets has it's toll on new ball bowling. Hardly any pacer knows how to use the new ball or bowling "in channel" or "business length" to create pressure. Besides, I genuinely believe the bowling intelligence isn't there - most of them are like Md. Sami. Previous generation learned their bowling acumen in County system and there was always a mentor to carry the legacy - they knew how to "work out" batsmen - these generation knows only to run & bowl.

I was watching IND U19 pacers in 2nd game - can't tell about pace (heard 150KM), but one thing I can say that there had been lots of work done on those kids. Run-up, grip, delivery stride, follow-through, action, landing, wrist ...... these are proper academy products, where kids were taught fundamentals of fast bowling by people who knows the trait. It sounds cool - natural talent, but with the sort of grip, wrist position or action - don't think the likes of JK, Raees, Wahab or Shiwari would do much with new ball.

I am sure it'll create lots of laughter now, if I say that in few years time our pacers will be more effective with new ball than what PAK is producing now, but that's actually is going to happen at this rate. System produces professional sportsman, not genetics or nationality.

 

[New Yorker]

Well if you have trundlers like rumman raees in the team what can one expect.Amir's time is up too.He should be dropped and i don't know if there is enough talent left in domestics.Hasan is having a bad series but still he picked up 6 wickets.He is the only bowler worth playing

NZ's star performer was Southee. What pace does he bowl at? Grant Flower kept talking about bounce. And you think speed was the problem? Rumman and Amir could well be dropped, but it's not pace that missing, it's skill.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

For years of dull cricket on UAE dross and even poor domestic wickets has it's toll on new ball bowling. Hardly any pacer knows how to use the new ball or bowling "in channel" or "business length" to create pressure. Besides, I genuinely believe the bowling intelligence isn't there - most of them are like Md. Sami. Previous generation learned their bowling acumen in County system and there was always a mentor to carry the legacy - they knew how to "work out" batsmen - these generation knows only to run & bowl.

I was watching IND U19 pacers in 2nd game - can't tell about pace (heard 150KM), but one thing I can say that there had been lots of work done on those kids. Run-up, grip, delivery stride, follow-through, action, landing, wrist ...... these are proper academy products, where kids were taught fundamentals of fast bowling by people who knows the trait. It sounds cool - natural talent, but with the sort of grip, wrist position or action - don't think the likes of JK, Raees, Wahab or Shiwari would do much with new ball.

I am sure it'll create lots of laughter now, if I say that in few years time our pacers will be more effective with new ball than what PAK is producing now, but that's actually is going to happen at this rate. System produces professional sportsman, not genetics or nationality.

Nationality doesn't, genetics do.

A system can polish a product, not create it. The problem with Pakistan is that education and sports are two different fields. You have to pick one of them and can't actually do both and hence most of our talented sportspeople end up picking career over sports.

There's no funnel to create that and no one in the country realizes that it's the job of cricket board and it's head. They are still happy with Sethi sb. because he launched psl and ab sab acha hai.

 

[MMHS]

Nationality doesn't, genetics do.

A system can polish a product, not create it. The problem with Pakistan is that education and sports are two different fields. You have to pick one of them and can't actually do both and hence most of our talented sportspeople end up picking career over sports.

There's no funnel to create that and no one in the country realizes that it's the job of cricket board and it's head. They are still happy with Sethi sb. because he launched psl and ab sab acha hai.

I am talking about pro sportsmen in general - not the top few. All the sprinters that broke the 10 sec barrier in 100 metres actually carry a west African gin, until a French white kid - Lemetre. Yes, to be a top athlete or swimmer genetics does come, may be it comes also for bowling 155KM+, BUT that’s not the only ysrd stick for fast bowling or new ball bowling - it’s the skill that more important and that doesn’t come with genetics.

System actually creates product & polish as well. Most sports has few common traits - speed, reflex, agility, balance, body structure, control on muscles & ligaments .... some people are born with those better then most. For that, you’ll notice if a kid in school is good in one sports, he is good in few others as well. That’s natural ability, which can take a kid to U16 level.

System doesn’t mean only training & practice facility - that’s just one a tiny part of the process. In a cricket mad country of 23 crore, there’ll be millions of kids playing the game - you can’t hand pick 100 every year and train them to pro cricketer, neither you can arrange top facilities at national level for mass. Any system (not in sports only) has to be a pyramid structure, which it self filters the top bunch through a competitive process (scouting is also part of that process) - then you start working with the top 1% - still 99% of that 1% won’t make it, otherwise Wasim Akram would have born in every generation.

One classic and ample I give is Snooker - highly skilled & very much British traditional sports. In 1998 (or so) Asian Games at KL, it was included and China first time decided to participate in it seriously. That time, they didn’t have a single pro player, none in top 250 players and no standard competition there. They started with few U16 kids, made the game known to mass and created favilities. Less than 20 years time, China today is a Snooker super power - it’s not that Chinese gin has changed. 2nd example is again from China - they were the weakest sprint nation among mongolloid people despite having almost 75% of that group till 1980s. And, everyone would have told you that Chinese gin can’t sprint - but, they did produce one hurdler in 20 years time, who kept the 110m hurdles world record for a good period. Today, vertically challenged Japanese, Korean & Chinese swimmers are breaking sprint swimming world records for fun - it was unthinkable even 25 years back.

I say opposite - genetics can create natural talent, without system it’s useless; but system can bypass genetics and produce sportsmen of the highest level.

 

[pkckt]

The good bowlers i.e. Shadab and Hassan did well. The ordinary bowlers were ordinary. That is all.

Hassan has had a horrible tour just look at his average this series.

 

[Syed1]

Keep in mind our bowlers aren't bowling to the likes of Azhar and Babar straight up.... which are two gifted wickets and help in getting the Kiwi morale up. Pakistan starts the innings essentially at 0/2.

 

[Fahdi]

Hassan has had a horrible tour just look at his average this series.

He bowler better than his figures suggest. Took wickets and is the 3rd highest wicket taker. Plus in New Zealand a fast bowlers most potent weapon is the new ball whereas Hassan Ali has been used solely as a first change bowler. It is very hard to take wickets in the middle overs in New Zealand unlike the subcontinent. In the last match the New Zealand fast bowlers were toothless against Fakhar and Haris once the new ball swing went away. The new ball bowlers have been an absolute joke for Pakistan.

 

[Pete Rose]

Poor length.

 

[pkckt]

He bowler better than his figures suggest. Took wickets and is the 3rd highest wicket taker. Plus in New Zealand a fast bowlers most potent weapon is the new ball whereas Hassan Ali has been used solely as a first change bowler. It is very hard to take wickets in the middle overs in New Zealand unlike the subcontinent. In the last match the New Zealand fast bowlers were toothless against Fakhar and Haris once the new ball swing went away. The new ball bowlers have been an absolute joke for Pakistan.

He bowled with the new ball in the previous game and got hammered

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

These are over cast windy, chilly conditions unlike the oppressive heat of UAE. The bowlers have shown absolutely zero skill level with the ball, gun barrel straight stuff, no idea about what line and length to bowl on these pitches which is inexcusable given that this is the 5th match on the tour now which means they should have had time to aclimitize to the conditions.

Something for Azhar Mahmood the bowling coach to answer for.

Mohd Amir is the biggest fraud, proving that the spot fixing scandal actually served him well in the long run. Had this guy been Rahat Ali, Wahab Riaz, Imran Khan, Sohail Khan he would have been shown the door by now.

I am talking about pro sportsmen in general - not the top few. All the sprinters that broke the 10 sec barrier in 100 metres actually carry a west African gin, until a French white kid - Lemetre. Yes, to be a top athlete or swimmer genetics does come, may be it comes also for bowling 155KM+, BUT that’s not the only ysrd stick for fast bowling or new ball bowling - it’s the skill that more important and that doesn’t come with genetics.

System actually creates product & polish as well. Most sports has few common traits - speed, reflex, agility, balance, body structure, control on muscles & ligaments .... some people are born with those better then most. For that, you’ll notice if a kid in school is good in one sports, he is good in few others as well. That’s natural ability, which can take a kid to U16 level.

System doesn’t mean only training & practice facility - that’s just one a tiny part of the process. In a cricket mad country of 23 crore, there’ll be millions of kids playing the game - you can’t hand pick 100 every year and train them to pro cricketer, neither you can arrange top facilities at national level for mass. Any system (not in sports only) has to be a pyramid structure, which it self filters the top bunch through a competitive process (scouting is also part of that process) - then you start working with the top 1% - still 99% of that 1% won’t make it, otherwise Wasim Akram would have born in every generation.

One classic and ample I give is Snooker - highly skilled & very much British traditional sports. In 1998 (or so) Asian Games at KL, it was included and China first time decided to participate in it seriously. That time, they didn’t have a single pro player, none in top 250 players and no standard competition there. They started with few U16 kids, made the game known to mass and created favilities. Less than 20 years time, China today is a Snooker super power - it’s not that Chinese gin has changed. 2nd example is again from China - they were the weakest sprint nation among mongolloid people despite having almost 75% of that group till 1980s. And, everyone would have told you that Chinese gin can’t sprint - but, they did produce one hurdler in 20 years time, who kept the 110m hurdles world record for a good period. Today, vertically challenged Japanese, Korean & Chinese swimmers are breaking sprint swimming world records for fun - it was unthinkable even 25 years back.

I say opposite - genetics can create natural talent, without system it’s useless; but system can bypass genetics and produce sportsmen of the highest level.

Very true I think.

Also, I was reminded by revisiting this thread that the reason why we haven't done well lies within the thread title. And it is

Why has the Pakistani MEDIUM pace attack failed in newzealand.

With raees and ashraf we aren't really dealing any pace etc.

 

[Fahdi]

He bowled with the new ball in the previous game and got hammered

Had a poor outing last match. Didn't know he bowled with the new ball last match since I didn't see our bowling. Actually I have missed a lot of this series due to being busy and the odd timings. Yet he is still our highest wicket taker and 3rd highest in the series.

Hassan has had a relatively bad tour but he has bowled decently. The last match sort of ruined his average. He has never been one to contain the runs but he gets wickets. He has been hammered a few times before as well by England and Australia.

There are bigger culprits such as Amir who has done squat with the new ball which is his main job really.

 

[PakPhenom]

There is a delivery I have come to literally hate now. The one Amir bowls short of a length on the hips. It is so reminiscent of the England '16 ODI series.

From experience as a batsman when I come to bat or am short of form, the best delivery for me to get my eye in is a short delivery on the hips, especially from a left armer. I can see it nice and early, it will never get me out and gives me the best chance to get bat on it. Once you get a couple in the middle of your bat then you are away.

Amir used that as his stock delivery. Sure it keeps Amir's economy rate decent but he is letting the openers get their eye in and settle down.

 

[Saj]

One thing to note is that NZ had some genuine pace bowlers, guys who can crank up the pace whereas Pakistan were relying on medium pacers who weren't going to trouble the opposition batsmen.

 

[Hamad_H]

Pakistan bowlers bowled ok but they didn't look threatening and didn't look like taking wickets until the NZ batsmen attacked.

 

[Abdullah]

Saying Pakistani pacers have failed is an overstatement

They haven't run thru the NZ batting, but I'd hardly say they failed.

Remember these are generally very flat tracks and smallish grounds. You can argue bowlers have done well to not have given up 350 a single time. Or 300+ just once

Our pathetic batsmen make conditions look better for bowling then they actually are

This . Go back and check other NZ series in past years in NZ and I bet 300s were scored more regularly

 

[New Yorker]

One thing to note is that NZ had some genuine pace bowlers, guys who can crank up the pace whereas Pakistan were relying on medium pacers who weren't going to trouble the opposition batsmen.

Another thing to note is that the best NZ bowlers were NOT the genuine pace bowlers, but Southee and Boult. These were wickets where you could trouble batsmen aplenty by bowling with skill, as those two showed. We missed a bowler who could bowl good lengths, swing it, and preferably get bounce.

 

[Pak Crescent]

is 140 kph not genuine pace? regardless, someone like Sohail Khan would've done better here.

 

[LordJames]

is 140 kph not genuine pace? regardless, someone like Sohail Khan would've done better here.

We pakistanees have been deluding ourselves about Genetics!

Punjab is split between India and Pakistan by an arbitrary line, do you think Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib had special genetics to those on the other side of Punjab?

How dumb is that?

India didn't have any fast bowling mentors so they threw money at Aussie and Pakistani legends and professional did the rest.

Look at U19 vs Pak U19.

Indian U19 pacers have been coached and look very organised and professional while Shahin Afridi is natural talent with his action not as smooth or rhythmic.

Pakistanees are emotional and still not waking up. Indian Cricket has left you behind in every facet of the game, Pakistan may win a few but there is no contest.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I think it was the lack of pace to be honest. Rumman raees is the modern day Sohail Tanvir. Can bowl in T20's but that's it. Doesn't have it to be an ODI bowler. The guy barely bowls around 130 kph. Aamir r doesn't crank it up often. Is happy to bowl around 135 ish. Hassan Ali too doesn't bowl consistently quick or extract bounce.

 

[UN talkz]

How the hell have Pakistani bowlers failed in NZ...
it is the freaking Batting that has let Pakistan down....
If u cannot chase 260 in 2018 u don't deserve to be called as batsmen

 

[Rightarmfast]

The answer is simple. The Pakistani bowlers are simply not good enough. You can console yourself saying Amir and Hassan won you CT, and they are the worlds best, but in all honesty, CT was more about india losing it than Pakistan winning it.
The NZ tour has proved it. The Pakistani bowlers remind people of the INdian attack of late 80's. medium pacers. They all look like headless chicken. They dont seem to have good mentors, good people guiding them.
There seems to zero or no planning involved. The players honestly seem to have zero cricketing sense which Wasim and Waqar, Moin were champions of. The present lot seem to have taken a pledge not to use their brains. How can you expect to be a champion team? The Pakistan team can win a few games here and there, but nothing beyond it.

 

[MMHS]

The answer is simple. The Pakistani bowlers are simply not good enough. You can console yourself saying Amir and Hassan won you CT, and they are the worlds best, but in all honesty, CT was more about india losing it than Pakistan winning it.
The NZ tour has proved it. The Pakistani bowlers remind people of the INdian attack of late 80's. medium pacers. They all look like headless chicken. They dont seem to have good mentors, good people guiding them.
There seems to zero or no planning involved. The players honestly seem to have zero cricketing sense which Wasim and Waqar, Moin were champions of. The present lot seem to have taken a pledge not to use their brains. How can you expect to be a champion team? The Pakistan team can win a few games here and there, but nothing beyond it.

CT win wasn't only about winning one game, and Hasan becoming MoS, without winning MoM in Final - it wasn't about one fluke for sure.

This attack is quite good, but issue is that, Ul Haq didn't pick right pacers for the purpose, neither enough. There is no new ball bowler to partner Amir and Kiwi batting is head heavy - they took the game away in first 10/15 overs playing out Amir. One reason being, obviously Amir didn't bowl that well. But, Kiwis were always chasing a below par target, hence never was forced to go after Amir, and he didn't bowl that penetrative length to entice batsmen who are not willing to go after him - Munro tried once & got out.

Anther being, batting first, they were never stressed to post 350. If I can see the limit of this PAK batting, obviously Hansen & Will is much more smarter to know that against such a batting line-up, only way they can lose is a dramatic collapse - 3/4 wickets in no time; they avoided that. And, had Sarfraz used his pacers better, this would have still been a better attack. He was using Amir with new ball and then nothing in between - finally ended under bowling him.

Change Raees with Irfaaan and things could have been quite different.

Irfan should be used/bowled out inside 35 overs - preferably in 2 spells (because of his size, it's difficult for him to warm up & get into rhythm 3 times, 6/7 + 4/3 is his best use), Amir 3 spells (6+2+2; 5+3+2) - but thouse last 2 not in last 5 overs.

Hasan in 3 spells of 4+2+4, and Fahim 5/6 overs in total (depending on how many overs Haris/Malik/Fakhar is given), but he ends with a 2 overs spell in dead end - that's last 9 overs by Amir & Fahim (42, 44, 46,48, 50), and 4 by Hasan (43, 45, 47, 49). In ODI, often the 49th over is the most critical one, hence Hasan should get that.

Shadab bowls with a bit of roughed-up ball instead of coming just after 10 overs, he starts at around 18/19th over and preferably 10 overs at one go, or at most 8+2; if he goes for runs, may be he shouldn't complete 10 overs - Fahim & Part-timers finish rest 10-12 overs.

Whole plot was spoiled with Ul Haq picking only 3 pacers and 2 of them not good with new ball. It's not UAE either that Sarfraz can open with a spinner, and MoHa wasn't there with ball either.

PAK's biggest problem is new ball - be with bat or ball. Batting is a long distant solution, but bowling one could be made much better with proper picks. UL Haq's pace attack was quite good for UAE, and only 3 would have done perfectly (because only 2 would have played, 3rd spot would have gone to 2nd spinner), and Arthur could have rotated them as well. Ul Haq picked same team for UAE & NZ .

Last year, lot of posters got after me, when I wrote same thing that revolutionary has picked almost same squad for UAE (WI), NZ & AUS,which is a disaster - this time they have faced their nemesis.

 

[New Yorker]

CT win wasn't only about winning one game, and Hasan becoming MoS, without winning MoM in Final - it wasn't about one fluke for sure.

This attack is quite good, but issue is that, Ul Haq didn't pick right pacers for the purpose, neither enough. There is no new ball bowler to partner Amir and Kiwi batting is head heavy - they took the game away in first 10/15 overs playing out Amir. One reason being, obviously Amir didn't bowl that well. But, Kiwis were always chasing a below par target, hence never was forced to go after Amir, and he didn't bowl that penetrative length to entice batsmen who are not willing to go after him - Munro tried once & got out.

Anther being, batting first, they were never stressed to post 350. If I can see the limit of this PAK batting, obviously Hansen & Will is much more smarter to know that against such a batting line-up, only way they can lose is a dramatic collapse - 3/4 wickets in no time; they avoided that. And, had Sarfraz used his pacers better, this would have still been a better attack. He was using Amir with new ball and then nothing in between - finally ended under bowling him.

Change Raees with Irfaaan and things could have been quite different.

Irfan should be used/bowled out inside 35 overs - preferably in 2 spells (because of his size, it's difficult for him to warm up & get into rhythm 3 times, 6/7 + 4/3 is his best use), Amir 3 spells (6+2+2; 5+3+2) - but thouse last 2 not in last 5 overs.

Hasan in 3 spells of 4+2+4, and Fahim 5/6 overs in total (depending on how many overs Haris/Malik/Fakhar is given), but he ends with a 2 overs spell in dead end - that's last 9 overs by Amir & Fahim (42, 44, 46,48, 50), and 4 by Hasan (43, 45, 47, 49). In ODI, often the 49th over is the most critical one, hence Hasan should get that.

Shadab bowls with a bit of roughed-up ball instead of coming just after 10 overs, he starts at around 18/19th over and preferably 10 overs at one go, or at most 8+2; if he goes for runs, may be he shouldn't complete 10 overs - Fahim & Part-timers finish rest 10-12 overs.

Whole plot was spoiled with Ul Haq picking only 3 pacers and 2 of them not good with new ball. It's not UAE either that Sarfraz can open with a spinner, and MoHa wasn't there with ball either.

PAK's biggest problem is new ball - be with bat or ball. Batting is a long distant solution, but bowling one could be made much better with proper picks. UL Haq's pace attack was quite good for UAE, and only 3 would have done perfectly (because only 2 would have played, 3rd spot would have gone to 2nd spinner), and Arthur could have rotated them as well. Ul Haq picked same team for UAE & NZ .

Last year, lot of posters got after me, when I wrote same thing that revolutionary has picked almost same squad for UAE (WI), NZ & AUS,which is a disaster - this time they have faced their nemesis.

You can't be serious. You want to recycle 7' Irfan? He was always unreliable and prone to breakdown, one of the worst fielders, and there are handful of pace bowlers who have been better than him in domestic tourneys, including Sadaf, who is nearly as tall. Makes no sense.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

Pakistani pacers had no swing no seam or pace to even trouble the likes of Southee.

 

[giri26]

I think the biggest problem for Pakistan is wickets with the new ball. NZ were mostly able to get to good starts. Amir isn't a wicket taker, in spite of his heroics in the CT final. He hardly gets wickets with the new ball and that is hurting Pakistan. In the absence of Junaid, Rumman took the new ball and did not make much impact with the new ball. He did bowl well in the middle and slog overs. Hasan was under pressure to deliver and he wasn't very successful this series. Mohammad Amir needs to improve his length's and actually get the edges instead of just beating the bat. When he starts doing that Pakistan bowling will perform much better.

Currently the pace attack is only Hasan and no one else looked good enough in this series.

 

[MMHS]

You can't be serious. You want to recycle 7' Irfan? He was always unreliable and prone to breakdown, one of the worst fielders, and there are handful of pace bowlers who have been better than him in domestic tourneys, including Sadaf, who is nearly as tall. Makes no sense.

Find someone good with new ball. Irfaaan was an example because he is bowling exceptionally well in domestics.

 

[New Yorker]

Find someone good with new ball. Irfaaan was an example because he is bowling exceptionally well in domestics.

Irfan is bowling better in domestics than Sadaf?

 

[hur rizvi]

BEcause attack is average.

Amir is bad. Rooman is bad. Faheem is decent. Hassan Ali is good but he is not a world class bowler (Dont give me ranking #1 **, Kulasekara has been #1 for a significant amount of time) who would perform in every series and has his limitations.

 

[Abdullah719]

BEcause attack is average.

Amir is bad. Rooman is bad. Faheem is decent. Hassan Ali is good but he is not a world class bowler (Dont give me ranking #1 **, Kulasekara has been #1 for a significant amount of time) who would perform in every series and has his limitations.

2 months is not a significant amount of time.

 

[babajee]

BEcause attack is average.

Amir is bad. Rooman is bad. Faheem is decent. Hassan Ali is good but he is not a world class bowler (Dont give me ranking #1 **, Kulasekara has been #1 for a significant amount of time) who would perform in every series and has his limitations.

If Hasan Ali isn’t world class... who is?

 

[hur rizvi]

If Hasan Ali isn’t world class... who is?

Noone in the current attack is. Hassan isnt world class, he is just a good bowler with limitations. Best Pakistan have but defo not world class

 

[MMHS]

Irfan is bowling better in domestics than Sadaf?

I have never seen Sadaf in a serious game, but I have seen Irfaan. I was talking about the recent T20 & Departmental Cup. With all his credits, I am not sure if Sadaf has played for Departmental teams, which should be higher in ranks.

If he is that good with new ball, indeed a potential.

 

[New Yorker]

I have never seen Sadaf in a serious game, but I have seen Irfaan. I was talking about the recent T20 & Departmental Cup. With all his credits, I am not sure if Sadaf has played for Departmental teams, which should be higher in ranks.

If he is that good with new ball, indeed a potential.

Sadaf was the top wicket taker in this year's Departmental Cup. He's been the highest wicket taker in domestic ODI tourney's a number of years.

If we are to judge bowler's by how they look, then we would never have let go of Rahat Ali. By all accounts, he was worth a million bucks in the nets.

 

[Hamstead_joy]

Sadaf was the top wicket taker in this year's Departmental Cup. He's been the highest wicket taker in domestic ODI tourney's a number of years.

If we are to judge bowler's by how they look, then we would never have let go of Rahat Ali. By all accounts, he was worth a million bucks in the nets.

Departmental Cup happened during the Pak-NZ series, selectors even ignored the top wicket taker in the Quaid e Azam trophy [which happened before the series] who could've been a handful on these pitches and move the ball, that is Sohail Khan. Majorly responsible for our loss the selection committee, dropped Junaid Khan from the whole NZ tour [ODI& T20 series] altogether in the name of fitness although he had started training in the first week of January. This is the same selection committee that sent an unfit Umar Akmal to UK for champions trophy.

The selection committee was in a way trying to make sure all the seniors from Amir to pathetic middle order seniors [Malik, Hafeez, Azam] play whole series, And when these favorite 'seniors' played matches, Pakistan suffered and could'nt comeback in the series. The only match Pakistan compete was the 5th & last odi when all these seniors [minus Babar Azam] sat out. Babar Azam again failed for the 5th time. Pakistan's youngsters on their first tour did most of the job, they batted, bowled and fielded superbly. They made sure Pakistan reaches a much more respectable score, when youngsters failed Pakistan was humiliated to be bowled out at a total of 74.

Inzamam has still done the same thing,he then sending an ODI middle order player Umar Amin, as an opener as alternative to Ahmed Shehzad. Selection committee continued to do its nepotism and dirty work to shield the senior players.

Player	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	E/R	Wd	NB

 

[MMHS]

Sadaf was the top wicket taker in this year's Departmental Cup. He's been the highest wicket taker in domestic ODI tourney's a number of years.

If we are to judge bowler's by how they look, then we would never have let go of Rahat Ali. By all accounts, he was worth a million bucks in the nets.

His stats are exceptional, but that's been for 8 years - in between at least 5 selection committee, 5 Captains & 5 coaches have ignored him - can't be coincidence, you know. Besides, guy played for only team, where I read he is not in favor of the officials.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

The bowlers aren't good enough, Amir still not getting wickets. Rumman has not much international experience, Hasan has been bad as the CT and No.1 tag gone to the head. Faheem same like Rumman.

 

[New Yorker]

His stats are exceptional, but that's been for 8 years - in between at least 5 selection committee, 5 Captains & 5 coaches have ignored him - can't be coincidence, you know. Besides, guy played for only team, where I read he is not in favor of the officials.

he hasn't been ignored. was picked for the national team against the windies but never got a game. waqar younis in his eternal wisdom preferred rahat ali. and no, no it's not a coincidence. cricinfo reported that shakeel shaikh has a thing against sadaf and made sure he was ignored. lots have been written about this, i'm not going to rehash any more. but there is no excuse whatsoever for not trying him.

 

[MMHS]

he hasn't been ignored. was picked for the national team against the windies but never got a game. waqar younis in his eternal wisdom preferred rahat ali. and no, no it's not a coincidence. cricinfo reported that shakeel shaikh has a thing against sadaf and made sure he was ignored. lots have been written about this, i'm not going to rehash any more. but there is no excuse whatsoever for not trying him.

He is bowling really well with new ball, might be too late as new kids are inblock, but worth trying

 

[New Yorker]

He is bowling really well with new ball, might be too late as new kids are inblock, but worth trying

I don't see any youngsters bowling half as well as Sadaf. The consistently best bowlers in the domestic LOIs in recent years have been Sohail, Sadaf and Hasan, of which Sadaf is not the oldest.

 

[waleed88]

These are over cast windy, chilly conditions unlike the oppressive heat of UAE. The bowlers have shown absolutely zero skill level with the ball, gun barrel straight stuff, no idea about what line and length to bowl on these pitches which is inexcusable given that this is the 5th match on the tour now which means they should have had time to aclimitize to the conditions.

Something for Azhar Mahmood the bowling coach to answer for.

Mohd Amir is the biggest fraud, proving that the spot fixing scandal actually served him well in the long run. Had this guy been Rahat Ali, Wahab Riaz, Imran Khan, Sohail Khan he would have been shown the door by now.

Fully agreed, our team is over reliant on our bowling and Hasan Ali to be outstanding every game. Otherwise scores in excess of 250 are the norm.

Restricting NZ in 250s and then getting out for 60 as a batting unit is a big tragedy.

For a team like Pakistan, anything above 250 as a side batting first and then you are in the game.

For any other side, this is a competitive score for a chasing side in the driving seat.

However for a team its a must that our bowlers be at 100% every game for us to win.

5-0 doesnot flatter NZ at all. We were playing with only 5 bowlers and 5 fielders on the pitch

 

[Zaz]

Maybe we should be criticising the batsmn who in this day and age cant chase sub 300 scores rather than tje bowlers

 

[Syed1]

Maybe we should be criticising the batsmn who in this day and age cant chase sub 300 scores rather than tje bowlers

I think the criticism for the bowling is borne out of the fact that everybody accepts our batting is utter tripe and they expect the bowling to restrict the opposition to 230-240 max so that our dhakka start batting can atleast make a match out of it.