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Why hasn't India ever been able to produce a true express fast bowler?

malakian

malakian

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I don't get it. Pakistan are literally next door and they've produced some of the fastest bowlers ever.

Can anyone educate me about this please? Is it diet?
 
For the same reason we don't produce many world class batsmen. India focuses more on batting and fielding where as we do on express bowlers. We had a Fazal Mehmood who became an example to fast bowlers in Pak. India never had such a fast bowler who others looked up to and wanted to emulate.
 
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PakLFC said:
For the same reason we don't produce many world class batsmen. India focuses more on batting and fielding where as we do on express bowlers. We had a Fazal Mehmood who became an example to fast bowlers in Pak. India never had such a fast bowler who others looked up to and wanted to emulate.
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Yeah i get that, but Pakistan have produced many world class batsmen over the years, whereas India just seems to produce trundlers.

I must say, i'm impressed with Bumdar, decent pace and looks very awkward.
 
Good joke..our pace battery right now is much superior.Saini in domestics going 150 plus consistently.
 
malakian said:
Yeah i get that, but Pakistan have produced many world class batsmen over the years, whereas India just seems to produce trundlers.

I must say, i'm impressed with Bumdar, decent pace and looks very awkward.
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Coz they don't focus on fast bowling. The likes of Dennis Lillee who had or perhaps still has a fast bowling clinic in India said the boys showed little interest in the art. If they ever produce one fast bowler then more will follow. They need an example to look up to, we were lucky to have a Fazal Mehmood so early that a Sarfaraz Nawaz and Imran followed. I also read that with many Indian bowlers being vegetarians that could be a problem as well.
 
Not 150+ Kph but there are some decent number of pacy bowlers coming through for India.

Bumrah is already there. I guess Nagarkoti was fastest of the lot who had the ability to touch 150 KPH but just like other teenage fast bowlers he is also struggling with back. Navdeep Saini and Prasidh Krishna have good pace and can bowl around 145 Kph more often than not. However not sure how they are in terms of having skills to utilize that pace.

While I agree in terms of run up, persona, aggression, attitude, also pace to some extent they are not the express pacers you are talking about.

Coming to Pakistan, its after a long time we have atleast 3-4 150+ kph touching bowlers, amongst the young ones Naseem Shah, Mohammad Hasnaian and Haris Rauf all 3 have the ability to knock that 150Kph barriers. Also Hasnain and Naseem are still teenagers.
 
PakLFC said:
Coz they don't focus on fast bowling. The likes of Dennis Lillee who had or perhaps still has a fast bowling clinic in India said the boys showed little interest in the art. If they ever produce one fast bowler then more will follow. They need an example to look up to, we were lucky to have a Fazal Mehmood so early that a Sarfaraz Nawaz and Imran followed. I also read that with many Indian bowlers being vegetarians that could be a problem as well.
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Javagal Srinath was pretty fast when he started. What he lacked was killer instinct in his early years. He developed into a pretty dependable bowler in the later half of his career but was never consistently aggressive enough in terms of pace and body language.

Sreesanth was fast as well but he was mad as well. So it did not work out either.

Being vegetarian is nothing to do with good fast bowlers. While meat is a ready source of nutrition, as such it does help people who consume it, but it is not the only source.
 
Most of the fast bowlers are wiry not muscly in India. So they don’t bowl at 155 a lot. Having said that India has a
Lot more genuine quick bowlers now than ever. May not be express. But quick enough to beat batsmen with pace.
 
They are not encouraged because India would prefer those bowlers to be accurate instead of being Raw heat.
 
To add to what's already been said above: injuries.

True express fast bowlers get injured a lot early in their careers and for that reason are forced to reduce their pace or they just vanish.

Maybe in next decade India will have their own Akhtar or Lee... maybe...
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Most of the fast bowlers are wiry not muscly in India. So they don’t bowl at 155 a lot. Having said that India has a
Lot more genuine quick bowlers now than ever. May not be express. But quick enough to beat batsmen with pace.
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Agreed.
 
Genuine fast bowling is a rare art . There have just been a handful of them in world history . It's only a matter of time before India produces one as well. Not sure there is a structural reason behind it .
 
I think its related to diet as well as genes.
Pakistanis are generally stronger and taller than indians.
The absence of a fast bowling legend is also one of the reason.
I don't buy the"pakistan doesn't produce good batsman " saying, atleast they have atgs like javed, younis, inzi, yousuf, what we have Zaheer khan. LOL.

But VIRAT KOHLI has changed the way we looked at pacers, now pacers are our strike bowlers not spinners. Our pace bowling stocks are better than ever and currently we have a better pace unit than pakistan.

Shami, bumrah, the new and improved Ishant sharma, bhuvi,:now this is a solid bowling unit in tests.
 
Few years back in 2000s, we had Akhtar, Lee, Tait, Sami and Bond playing at the same time.

ICC adopted a different anti-dope testing policy in 2009 and now nobody consistently bowls at over 150ks.

You can read between the lines what I mean.
 
Roaring40s said:
Few years back in 2000s, we had Akhtar, Lee, Tait, Sami and Bond playing at the same time.

ICC adopted a different anti-dope testing policy in 2009 and now nobody consistently bowls at over 150ks.

You can read between the lines what I mean.
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Yeah that's true. Shoaib retired a long time ago now, by now i'd have expected a bowler somewhere in the world to break 100mph.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
I think its related to diet as well as genes.
Pakistanis are generally stronger and taller than indians.
The absence of a fast bowling legend is also one of the reason.
I don't buy the"pakistan doesn't produce good batsman " saying, atleast they have atgs like javed, younis, inzi, yousuf, what we have Zaheer khan. LOL.

But VIRAT KOHLI has changed the way we looked at pacers, now pacers are our strike bowlers not spinners. Our pace bowling stocks are better than ever and currently we have a better pace unit than pakistan.

Shami, bumrah, the new and improved Ishant sharma, bhuvi,:now this is a solid bowling unit in tests.
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Diet, genes, religion etc are rubbish factors. Due to our sheer size -

We have more beef eaters than Pakistan.

We have more pork eaters than Australia.

We have more people with Caucasian blood (Anglo and other mixed Indians) than New Zealand.

We have more black people than Barbados.

Fast bowlers and fast bowling are handled in a different way which our captains, selectors, BCCI and even fans didn't know about. Slowly we are learning.

See how many times Zak bowled more than 20-25 overs in a single day.

Srinath was made to play every single test.

Kapil was dropped/rested just once in his career.
 
This was true till around early 2010s. Not anymore
 
People in Punjab tend to be tall and muscular (not all); a lot of Pk fast bowlers hail from there. By the same token we should expect fast bowlers from Indian Punjab from amongst the Sikh community. But do the Sikh community get enough opportunities? Not until recently.
 
Because we don't eat meat... That's the popular opinion among the people here.
 
Name of the game is longevity. Get one IPL contract for 3 years and you are set for a decade. Indians focus on swing and seam and it's difficult to bowl accurately at high pace. The sweet spot is bowling 140+ and either seam or swing the ball. That's enough to get every batsman out in the world. Huffing and puffing for a few balls means you will be injured and discarded away after being tonked all over the oark. Look at Varun Aaron etc
 
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HappyWarsFan said:
And both are trundlers.
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They surely have better stats than Amir (Siddle) and Wahab (Kane).

Siddle is a trundler now at the age of almost 35. He was 140+ at the height of his career.

Richardson is fast medium who bowls at about 135ks. Same as Amir.
 
I think it has got a lot to do with the time spans, amateurish eras , legacy etc etc.... a mix of all .

In those pre multi camera days fast bowlers generally could do any illegal thing and get away with it. Now a days it is not the case. How many sub 25 test bowlers do we have today?

Amateurish in the sense there was no professional set up adequate enough to groom fast bowlers , I mean BCCI was border line amateurish .Now things have changed a lot and several youngsters are taking up to fast bowling seriously.

No one to look up to as role models. But it should be said that Kapil was a border line fast bowler.
247 test wkts from 62 tests at 27.72 in just 5 & 1/2 years with out much support from the other ends is border line greatness by every stretch. He could bowl fast but he adjusted a lot for the team cause.

Srinath was a decent fast bowler but he lacked support in foreign tours. Zaheer's jump was a lways going to back fire, but otherwise he could have been a very good fast bowler.
 
RajBan said:
Javagal Srinath was pretty fast when he started. What he lacked was killer instinct in his early years. He developed into a pretty dependable bowler in the later half of his career but was never consistently aggressive enough in terms of pace and body language.

Sreesanth was fast as well but he was mad as well. So it did not work out either.

Being vegetarian is nothing to do with good fast bowlers. While meat is a ready source of nutrition, as such it does help people who consume it, but it is not the only source.
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Meat helps develop the bones although too much of it can also be problematic. The two Indian bowlers you mentioned were only fast by Indian standards. No other side ever considered them to be that. I walk faster then they run!!:wa
 
akkers said:
People in Punjab tend to be tall and muscular (not all); a lot of Pk fast bowlers hail from there. By the same token we should expect fast bowlers from Indian Punjab from amongst the Sikh community. But do the Sikh community get enough opportunities? Not until recently.
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Take this trash excuse somewhere else lol, Ishant has been one of the fastest Delhi region, go check the amount of Sikhs that have played for India starting from Bedi(also a captain) , atleast exercise your mind a lil.
 
Roaring40s said:
We surely have more meat eaters than Pakistan.

What about Bangladesh?

They eat meat and still can't produce fast bowlers.

I have more news for you. Aussie fast bowlers Peter Siddle and Kane Richardson are vegetarian/vegan.
https://www.peta.org.au/news/aussie-cricketers-vegan/
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Tbh that’s not a good point to your argument

Siddles pace went down and his career petered out to an extent ever since he turned vegan
 
malakian said:
I don't get it. Pakistan are literally next door and they've produced some of the fastest bowlers ever.

Can anyone educate me about this please? Is it diet?
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There is literally 2 genuinely express fast bowlers in the world right now.
Ferguson and starc. They bowl 144 on average.

No other bowler including joffra, bumrah, riaz all bowl 140 on average at best.

Look at the world load of these players especially indian ones as they play the highest number of fixtures per year. They also have lpl which obviously is important to these players in terms of financial incentives.

It's natural that they would want focus on line and length in order to avoid getting injured like starc and Pattinson or cummins.

They have some real speedster in their ranks but coaches often insist on focusing entirely on line and length from what I have seen.
 
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Eating meat has any relationship to bowling fast is dumb assumption. It's not as if fast bowlers eat cheetahs meat. They eat chicken , beef and both chickens and cows a.d buffalo are pretty lazy animals. Besides the Chinese and Africans eat all kind of animals so by this logic they should have 150 kph spinners
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Most of the fast bowlers are wiry not muscly in India. So they don’t bowl at 155 a lot. Having said that India has a
Lot more genuine quick bowlers now than ever. May not be express. But quick enough to beat batsmen with pace.
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no one except starc bowls 150 plus consistently. Not even lockie. Well varun aaron does but he sucks.

The work load is far too much to sustain that sort of pace.

the only reason starc can even bowl that fast is because he barely plays rofl. Look at him. always rested for ******** bilaterals, rubbish tri series etc.
 
I would say diet and genetics are the two reasons why India never produced proper fast bowlers like Pakistan. Pakistanis keep on producing great fast bowlers while India may produce one or two once in a while.
 
tyron_woodley said:
no one except starc bowls 150 plus consistently. Not even lockie. Well varun aaron does but he sucks.

The work load is far too much to sustain that sort of pace.

the only reason starc can even bowl that fast is because he barely plays rofl. Look at him. always rested for ******** bilaterals, rubbish tri series etc.
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They are only 3 or 4 kms less than to be considered an express bowler. That is still rapid. Besides Bumrah will look quicker than Starc or Brett lee from a batsman perspective. Reason is his release point. He releases the ball further down the pitch than many bowlers. Even his 138 kph ball will be quicker let alone 149 kphs.
 
Welcome back [MENTION=55178]malakian[/MENTION]. I think it’s because Pakistanis are genetically stronger and they have produced the most natural fast bowlers who can clock 150+ at ease. Look at that Hasnain kid he is skinny but can easily clock 150+
 
PakLFC said:
Meat helps develop the bones although too much of it can also be problematic. The two Indian bowlers you mentioned were only fast by Indian standards. No other side ever considered them to be that. I walk faster then they run!!:wa
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You probably didn't see Srinath in his early years. Players like Haynes and Greenidge were thoroughly troubled by him. Srinath did not get a proper mentor at that time, otherwise it could have been a very different career for him.

By the way the same guy who runs slower than your walk single handedly wiped up your pretty good 90s batting line up in a day on a subcontinent pitch.
 
sweep_shot said:
I would say diet and genetics are the two reasons why India never produced proper fast bowlers like Pakistan. Pakistanis keep on producing great fast bowlers while India may produce one or two once in a while.
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As much as you guys want to believe in this concept, the thing is people in Pakistani Punjab and North west are demographically similar to people in Indian Punjab and Haryana. So the so called genetics is nothing to do with it. If yes, then Afghanistan which is also from a similar demographic background would have 150 k bowlers dropping like apples.

It's the fast bowling culture which includes pace, movement of the seam and reverse swing that you guys groomed in over decades that really is the difference. Talk to any Pakistani senior cricketer, they will never advise to compromise on pace . And Pakistan in 90s used to work as a unit when it comes to reverse swing.

In India on the other hand we have given importance to line and length to such an extent that people are even ok to compromise on pace which is really a wrong philosophy. While line and length is important and a minimum standard needs to be maintained to be effective, in a subcontinent pitch pace is a premium differentiator. And most Indian bowling coaches failed to recognize that given that they themselves were brought up on the philosophy of line and length. As such many promising fast bowlers have been victim of this school of thought and did not really fulfil their potential - Irfan Pathan is one of the most prominent example that I can think of.
 
Troll thread.

India has a better pace bowling attack than us since the last few years.

Instead of trying to act smart learn to appreciate your neighbours. While we're at it, we should ask why Pakistan hasn't been able to produce a true quality batsman, although Babar is slowly getting there.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
I think its related to diet as well as genes.
Pakistanis are generally stronger and taller than indians.
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India beats Pakistan in almost every athletic sports, strength sports, Olympic sports, weightlifting by a big margin. Sports requiring a 100 times more strength, speed, stamina than cricket, one of the laziest sports in existence and India is comfortably ahead in all

i know you are hiding under trolling but it just gives an impression of an extremely insecure person and country online because you its difficult to interpret sarcasm online
 
RajBan said:
As much as you guys want to believe in this concept, the thing is people in Pakistani Punjab and North west are demographically similar to people in Indian Punjab and Haryana. So the so called genetics is nothing to do with it.
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India dominates South East Asia in sports requiring way more stamina, strength and speed than cricket, one of the laziest sports. In Olympic sports like weight lifting, athletics, boxing, etc. So yes, that line is ridiculous
 
Roaring40s said:
Diet, genes, religion etc are rubbish factors. Due to our sheer size -

We have more beef eaters than Pakistan.

We have more pork eaters than Australia.

We have more people with Caucasian blood (Anglo and other mixed Indians) than New Zealand.

We have more black people than Barbados.

Fast bowlers and fast bowling are handled in a different way which our captains, selectors, BCCI and even fans didn't know about. Slowly we are learning.

See how many times Zak bowled more than 20-25 overs in a single day.

Srinath was made to play every single test.

Kapil was dropped/rested just once in his career.
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#1 Are these minorities immigrants who came as adults to work? Or people born in India who grow up playing cricket in the Indian systems?

#2 Why then are these people not represented in Indian cricket teams? SA has a diverse team, England have a diverse team. Australia have had at least some representation from non-anglo immigrant groups (Symonds, Kwahaja)
 
Roaring40s said:
Diet, genes, religion etc are rubbish factors. Due to our sheer size -

We have more beef eaters than Pakistan.

We have more pork eaters than Australia.

We have more people with Caucasian blood (Anglo and other mixed Indians) than New Zealand.

We have more black people than Barbados.

Fast bowlers and fast bowling are handled in a different way which our captains, selectors, BCCI and even fans didn't know about. Slowly we are learning.

See how many times Zak bowled more than 20-25 overs in a single day.

Srinath was made to play every single test.

Kapil was dropped/rested just once in his career.
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It does have to do with genetics, you guys just haven't invested in the right places. Your current fastest and most durable bowler is Punjabi.
 
India beats Pakistan in sports due to having a better structure and money to invest in sport. In terms of strength, lol let's not go there, if it weren't for the Sikhs/Muslims of India, India would rate 2/10 for strength.

It's not called 'insecure' it's called facts.
 
malakian said:
I don't get it. Pakistan are literally next door and they've produced some of the fastest bowlers ever.

Can anyone educate me about this please? Is it diet?
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Diet?? Then, explain why India are ranked 104 places above Pakistan in football.
 
Master91Blaster said:
India beats Pakistan in sports due to having a better structure and money to invest in sport. In terms of strength, lol let's not go there, if it weren't for the Sikhs/Muslims of India, India would rate 2/10 for strength.

It's not called 'insecure' it's called facts.
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I thought India has better wrestlers and boxers? Isn't that true?
 
Master91Blaster said:
India beats Pakistan in sports due to having a better structure and money to invest in sport. In terms of strength, lol let's not go there, if it weren't for the Sikhs/Muslims of India, India would rate 2/10 for strength.

It's not called 'insecure' it's called facts.
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Or what you post is called propoganda.
 
Master91Blaster said:
India beats Pakistan in sports due to having a better structure and money to invest in sport. In terms of strength, lol let's not go there, if it weren't for the Sikhs/Muslims of India, India would rate 2/10 for strength.

It's not called 'insecure' it's called facts.
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You don't have much clue , isn't it. Actually South Indians and people living in Himalayan region are pretty strong and naturally well built . Your so called glorified foreign invaders had least impact in these areas. Just because you see too much Punjabi stuff in tv, don't assume that's were the world ends.
 
sweep_shot said:
I would say diet and genetics are the two reasons why India never produced proper fast bowlers like Pakistan. Pakistanis keep on producing great fast bowlers while India may produce one or two once in a while.
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Diet and Genetics??:))):))):))):)))

India are ranked like 104 places above Pakistan in football.
 
RajBan said:
You don't have much clue , isn't it. Actually South Indians and people living in Himalayan region are pretty strong and naturally well built . Your so called glorified foreign invaders had least impact in these areas. Just because you see too much Punjabi stuff in tv, don't assume that's were the world ends.
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You are absolutely correct. Anyone with a bit of history knowledge would not stereotype India. It is a country that is very very hard to stereotype. Each state varies.
 
CricFan2012 said:
Troll thread.

India has a better pace bowling attack than us since the last few years.

Instead of trying to act smart learn to appreciate your neighbours. While we're at it, we should ask why Pakistan hasn't been able to produce a true quality batsman, although Babar is slowly getting there.
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😂 Better genetics of producing fast bowlers....What about other sports like wrestling, boxing and how many medals did 🇵🇰 procure in Olympics after eating so much meat 🥩??
 
indiafan said:
india beats pakistan in almost every athletic sports, strength sports, olympic sports, weightlifting by a big margin. Sports requiring a 100 times more strength, speed, stamina than cricket, one of the laziest sports in existence and india is comfortably ahead in all

i know you are hiding under trolling but it just gives an impression of an extremely insecure person and country online because you its difficult to interpret sarcasm online
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potw
 
RajBan said:
You probably didn't see Srinath in his early years. Players like Haynes and Greenidge were thoroughly troubled by him. Srinath did not get a proper mentor at that time, otherwise it could have been a very different career for him.

By the way the same guy who runs slower than your walk single handedly wiped up your pretty good 90s batting line up in a day on a subcontinent pitch.
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Srinath was never an express bowler. No great fast bowler will ever call him that. Troubling certain batsmen at his peak does not make him a fast bowler at all. There was a Mudassar Nazar who also troubled certain batsmen when he was bowling as well, he had the knack to pick of wickets despite being nothing more then a medium pacer. A good match versus Pak does not mean Srisanth who I will remind you was also caught cheating in the IPL world class. I assume that is who you are talking about here. So Asim Kamal batting well against India would make him a world beater in your eyes. Come off it!
 
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Indiafan said:
India beats Pakistan in almost every athletic sports, strength sports, Olympic sports, weightlifting by a big margin. Sports requiring a 100 times more strength, speed, stamina than cricket, one of the laziest sports in existence and India is comfortably ahead in all

i know you are hiding under trolling but it just gives an impression of an extremely insecure person and country online because you its difficult to interpret sarcasm online
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Don’t the vast majority of these weight lifters and wrestlers come from Punjab/Haryana anyway?

Genetics is a valid point.
 
Ellipsism said:
Don’t the vast majority of these weight lifters and wrestlers come from Punjab/Haryana anyway?

Genetics is a valid point.
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No, they don't. A lot come from North East and other Himalayan regions as well as from South. Again, there is a difference in reality on ground and the popular perception created by movies and texts.
 
PakLFC said:
Srinath was never an express bowler. No great fast bowler will ever call him that. Troubling certain batsmen at his peak does not make him a fast bowler at all. There was a Mudassar Nazar who also troubled certain batsmen when he was bowling as well, he had the knack to pick of wickets despite being nothing more then a medium pacer. A good match versus Pak does not mean Srisanth who I will remind you was also caught cheating in the IPL world class. I assume that is who you are talking about here. So Asim Kamal batting well against India would make him a world beater in your eyes. Come off it!
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I am talking about Javagal Srinath , not S Sreesanth. Not sure how much you have followed early years of Srinath during 1991-92.
 
Simple, Pakistanis are descendants of Turks and Mongols and are all warriors and gladiators. They have superior genes and are well ahead of Indians in physicality, looks and skin tone as well.

Indians are inferior genetically, poor diet and eat vegetables. All 1.3 billion of us Indians are short heighten with weak genes . Physically look like Chahal and dark skin colour and no good looks either.

Now this thread can be closed, that's what PPers like to hear every few months :)
 
I'd say that at the moment they are probably producing as many, if not more quick bowlers than Pakistan is?
 
Master91Blaster said:
India beats Pakistan in sports due to having a better structure and money to invest in sport. In terms of strength, lol let's not go there, if it weren't for the Sikhs/Muslims of India, India would rate 2/10 for strength.

It's not called 'insecure' it's called facts.
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sweep_shot said:
I would say diet and genetics are the two reasons why India never produced proper fast bowlers like Pakistan. Pakistanis keep on producing great fast bowlers while India may produce one or two once in a while.
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Agreed totally. We Indians can't ever be compared to the gladiators from Pakistan with superior genetics and prowess.
[MENTION=3327]Indiafan[/MENTION]
 
Diet has nothing to do with pace bowling. India sitll has bowlers like Saini who consistently clocks 150 kph which is a good speed. Even from Pakistan apart from Akhtar no real express fast bowler had a long career. waqar, wasim were not exactly 155 kph bowlers. Zahid broke down very early. Brett Lee, Bond, Tait, Akhtar could be categorized as express fast bowlers. Rest of them or just fast bowlers.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Diet has nothing to do with pace bowling. India sitll has bowlers like Saini who consistently clocks 150 kph which is a good speed. Even from Pakistan apart from Akhtar no real express fast bowler had a long career. waqar, wasim were not exactly 155 kph bowlers. Zahid broke down very early. Brett Lee, Bond, Tait, Akhtar could be categorized as express fast bowlers. Rest of them or just fast bowlers.
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Wrong bro, Pakistanis are all macho man with enviable physique. They are all blessed with superior genetics and have been warriors and gladiators all their life. That's the real reason :)
 
Bumrah and shami are as quick as anyone today.

Theres only ever been 4 true Express fast bowlers, Thompson, Lee, tait and Akhtar, all the others were slightly slower.
 
As if England ever had an express bowler in test cricket. And that's despite stealing cricketers from all over the world. And no, bowling high speed s for 2,3 series only doesn't count. So you can remove the likes of harmison from your head, OP.
 
RajBan said:
I am talking about Javagal Srinath , not S Sreesanth. Not sure how much you have followed early years of Srinath during 1991-92.
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I am saying that neither Srinath or Sreesanth were ever express bowlers. I have never heard anyone mention them in that category! Seems as if Indian people fed up of such taunts are now calling their medium pacers as being fast:)):)):))
 
PakLFC said:
I am saying that neither Srinath or Sreesanth were ever express bowlers. I have never heard anyone mention them in that category! Seems as if Indian people fed up of such taunts are now calling their medium pacers as being fast:)):)):))
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srinath bowled quicker than every pakistan bowler barring akthar in his prime. Only an idiot would call him a medium pacer. He isn't express but he is as fast as waqar and wasim. rofl and that's the funny part.

wasim and waqar were intact never express. never.
 
tyron_woodley said:
srinath bowled quicker than every pakistan bowler barring akthar in his prime. Only an idiot would call him a medium pacer. He isn't express but he is as fast as waqar and wasim. rofl and that's the funny part.

wasim and waqar were intact never express. never.
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He was never fast and no great fast bowler has ever called him that. I agree that Wasim may not ever have been in the league of the Marshall's and Lillee's but Waqar was for sure. When it comes down to it India has not produced a bowler who is considered "fast" by the games pundits. Try harder:rabada2
 
They have quite a few quicks currently.

Yea they havent produced super express bowlers but its just a matter of time..
 
PakLFC said:
He was never fast and no great fast bowler has ever called him that. I agree that Wasim may not ever have been in the league of the Marshall's and Lillee's but Waqar was for sure. When it comes down to it India has not produced a bowler who is considered "fast" by the games pundits. Try harder:rabada2
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rofl waqar was never express. He was fast. just like a cummins, bumrah or a rabada. He wasn't starc level consistent.
even fodder bowlers cam bowl a one off 150 plus bowl. even steyn was quicker than waqar.

look at the amout of workload for these indian bowlers compared to other nations in general. Actually most top teams have an enormous workload compared to past eras. So it's understandable why they are cautious about bowling at express speeds. India play the most number of games per year out of all elite test cricket playing nations. if indian and paksiatn bowlers had ample rest like starc did prior to the world cup then you will be able to see them produce more pure express speedsters. Its just not possible with the amount of cricket they play at thr momemt.

Who are these so called pundits? varun aaron bowls fast consistently but he is trash.
 
tyron_woodley said:
rofl waqar was never express. He was fast. just like a cummins, bumrah or a rabada. He wasn't starc level consistent.
even fodder bowlers cam bowl a one off 150 plus bowl. even steyn was quicker than waqar.

look at the amout of workload for these indian bowlers compared to other nations in general. Actually most top teams have an enormous workload compared to past eras. So it's understandable why they are cautious about bowling at express speeds. India play the most number of games per year out of all elite test cricket playing nations. if indian and paksiatn bowlers had ample rest like starc did prior to the world cup then you will be able to see them produce more pure express speedsters. Its just not possible with the amount of cricket they play at thr momemt.

Who are these so called pundits? varun aaron bowls fast consistently but he is trash.
Click to expand...

I am guessing you watched Waqar when he was well past his prime. He used to be express by every definition and imagination..!!!!
 
i am totally impartial as i like both india and Pakistan. nothing wrong with that.
Pakistan >>> india in the 90s and for the latter part of the 80s. India >>> pakistam post 2002
 
gazza619 said:
I am guessing you watched Waqar when he was well past his prime. He used to be express by every definition and imagination..!!!!
Click to expand...

oh ok. well I watched old tapes and most sources suggest that he was never express. plus the speed gun wasn't as advanced so I have serious doubts about fast bowlers from past eras.
 
I will always maintain that javagal srinath was a top class fast bowler!!
The best that india has ever produced(yes better than bumra).

If he was pakistani he would be in the top group of pak bowlers, just behind imran, wasim, waqar and atkhar.
Better than amir, sami, gul, wahab, sohail, tanvir, irfan ,shaheen, husnain(though the last two are young and may end up better than srinath).
 
tyron_woodley said:
oh ok. well I watched old tapes and most sources suggest that he was never express. plus the speed gun wasn't as advanced so I have serious doubts about fast bowlers from past eras.
Click to expand...

I have seen him since he made his debut. He was not express. He was fast. He was never a 155 k bowler. Tait, Lee, Akhtar breached that top speed of well over 155 several times in the same match. Having said that pace bowling is not just about clock speed. It is about how the batsmen feel. As i explained Bumrah's 140k is quicker than 140k from any other bowlers because he releases the ball well beyond the crease. So it is quicker. Each bowler has their own style of hurrying the batsmen.
 
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