Why is Azhar Ali better than Asad Shafiq in ODIs?

[Mamoon]

I personally find it intriguing. Obviously Azhar isn't a good ODI batsman, but he is much better compared to Shafiq, which is baffling.

In Tests, Azhar is a bigger strokeless wonder compared to Shafiq, who looks more dynamic and has a better SR. In ODIs, it is the opposite.

Azhar is mentally stronger yes, but for me that is not conclusive enough to explain the difference between the two players in ODIs, keeping their respective strengths and weaknesses in mind.

Could it be because Azhar is opening and is able to to maintain a better SR by getting boundaries in the PP overs? Maybe, because Azhar at number 3 in ODIs has looked as bad as Shafiq.

Could a case be made for Shafiq to open instead of Azhar? Will it allow him to replicate the relative success of Azhar and perhaps even improve on it?

 

[Pete Rose]

Does not rate himself. No cure for that, can only come from within.

The rest of the thread will predictably will talk about needing to move on and his 60 matches performance is a good enough indication.

 

[ExplicitAI]

Azhar is ruthless against the new ball, he'll bunt it off as well as flail a lot of them to the boundary if it's in his zone. He's got the confidence to score tons since he's been doing it a lot in domestic One Day games. Asad on the other hand is more suited to Tests where he can settle in as long as he wants and play his shots when he feels good. He can't get going from the world go in ODI's.

 

[super hitter]

Shafiq will take time but we must keep this man away from LOI's because he is a solid guy in the test team, same goes for Azhar.

Azhar's better though...can't analyse

 

[Sarfarazian92]

Confidence ki baat hai boss

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Shafiq opening in ODI's is not a good idea at all,especially while Azhar is there.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Shafiq and MISBAH are afternoon and evening batsmen in tests... Next early morning they will be gone before their tailender partner, Shafiq is yet to score a 140 in tests, though his technique is good his timidness, concencteration and confidence are always a problem with him while batting...Also because of his timid nature he was played around all positions in ODIs by MISBAH and other coaches, he has to toughen up...

 

[abughio]

asad is so good a batsman against pace as well as spin bowling but still failing.. once he overcomes his barrier..he will come good.. but i wont invest on him anymore.

so in short, it is mental block/timid nature.. nothing else.. a fighter attitude would have helped his cause.

same is the reason for azhar performing good. he is mentally very strong in misbah's mould.. after all the criticism, he still plays his way.

 

[sarmad1983]

shafiq 1.0 was terrible in LOIs because of the lack of balance and distance between bat and pad. would get bowled, lbw, or caught at midwicket regularly. shafiq 2.0 has much better balance and tries to hit straighter to straighter deliveries. the reason he cant perform at ODI level is bcs he is super lacking in confidence and is under immense pressure bcs he feels his place in the side is a constant threat.

Shafiq opening the ODIs is a great idea; if skippa comes in and says; "we need an opener with all the shots to rotate strike and give it to sharjeel and i know u can do it" shafiq will come through inshalllah

 

[Mamoon]

Shafiq opening in ODI's is not a good idea at all,especially while Azhar is there.

shafiq 1.0 was terrible in LOIs because of the lack of balance and distance between bat and pad. would get bowled, lbw, or caught at midwicket regularly. shafiq 2.0 has much better balance and tries to hit straighter to straighter deliveries. the reason he cant perform at ODI level is bcs he is super lacking in confidence and is under immense pressure bcs he feels his place in the side is a constant threat.

Shafiq opening the ODIs is a great idea; if skippa comes in and says; "we need an opener with all the shots to rotate strike and give it to sharjeel and i know u can do it" shafiq will come through inshalllah

I don't see any new version of Shafiq. He is still the chicken-hearted batsman he always was. As I said in the OP, he can be considered as an opening candidate only as Azhar's replacement, because there is a possibility that he might do relatively better at that position like the former. Obviously they will not work as a pair.

 

[MMHS]

One of very few facts I can't explain to myself. It's just impossible to put logic on why Asad is basically a No. 8 in ODI, with half the SR. His game is perfect for ODI, particularly in this PAK lineup, he should be one of the star batsman.

May be, it's for his personality traits - very soft & nervous character, who is always under pressure to perform. He has been played here & there sporadically, which doesn't help a player, with such mindset. May be, whenever he comes to bat, he puts extra pressure on himself to survive, rather than actually play own game - that's scoring runs, which will never work. I still think, he was the better choice for Test No. 3; but truth is - he has a pair there.

Not saying it will definitely work, but may be, best way to deal with him is decisive role - if he is picked, he must play at a fixed spot & regardless of performance he'll be given a series of matches; or don't pick him at all. It's not helping him, or his team.

Personally, I'll pick Asad any day in my ODI team over Azhar & play him in top 3, may be even as opener. Azhar is a better Test player, but not suitable for LOs.

 

[Hasan123]

Asad doesn't seem to have the belief and confidence in Odis.

 

[saabir]

Both r not made for ODIS. They r very good in tests. Only reason why Azhar Ali is doing better than A sad because of his mental strength & smartness. He occupied the openers slot where he can score quickly against new ball & due to field restriction he can hit boundaries. Asad is a very timid character he does not have a heart to hit big. He always played with very negative mindset & finally gets failed.

 

[Madplayer]

Because when we compare azhar and asad in ODIs, Azhar Would receive more competition from a block of wood.

Asad is just a tragedy in ODIs to the point that You feel bad for the little guy.

His scoring technique isnt good , he doesnt take singles at all, Is over concious for most of his innings.

 

[Stallion__]

Apart from psychological issues, Asad is a sort of player who relies a lot on boundaries. Even in test cricket, he has much greater boundaries/runs ratio as compared to Azhar. While there are enough gaps available in test cricket for him to be in his comfort zone, the LOI field set up cuts his scoring options significantly. Plus he struggles to rotate the strike in LOI fields. More like VVS or Ashwin.

 

[proud_pakistani]

Azhar Ali is possibly a batsman who has the best temperament since Javed Miandad. Azhar Ali is naturally not skilful at all. Infact, he has outdone mostly everyones expectations with his sheer hard work and calm head. Asad on the other hand looks more polished as a batsman but still due to Azhar's great temperament he has out done him. Not just in ODIs but in Tests too. Azhar has come a really long way since his first test in England. Can I say the same for Asad? Not really. He is still the same batsman with no major change in ability or attitude since he first came onto the scene. Azhar has drastically improved his ODI game as well and has far better intent now. He is not the ideal batsman for ODIs but he has still out done many more who have come in that position.

 

[Officer Barbrady]

Shafiq needs time to get going at the start of his innings. And in the shorter format there is only so much time before you start putting yourself and the team under pressure. I think a lot it mental at this point and he puts pressure on himself whenever he bats in ODIs. Keep in mind he's only played 5 or so ODIs in the past 2 years - the period where Azhar has had a chance to play regularly.

Interestingly, Shafiq's strike rate in List A games (outside of internationals) is above 85 with an average around 50! I do agree that he might be most suited to opening the inning.

 

[yasir]

What works for Azhar is his defense, which is very strong, probably strongest I have ever seen by any Pakistani opener... He does not mind defending the ball, he rather enjoys it, he use that to settle into his innings or build it... Shafiq even when have to defend, does not look comfortable...Shafiq has more shots but he will loose it more often than not at top...Both are not confident to take bowlers on, that's why they will have limited success in ODIs...

Pakistan has to look beyond Azhar, Shafiq, Hafeez, Malik non of these guys are good ODI players, later ones are good player of spin, but that's about it...You cannot be a good Pakistani batsmen if you are not good player of fast bowling, because everybody can play spin, ones who play fast bowling better are considered worthy of national team!!!!

 

[Pakpak]

One of very few facts I can't explain to myself. It's just impossible to put logic on why Asad is basically a No. 8 in ODI, with half the SR. His game is perfect for ODI, particularly in this PAK lineup, he should be one of the star batsman.

May be, it's for his personality traits - very soft & nervous character, who is always under pressure to perform. He has been played here & there sporadically, which doesn't help a player, with such mindset. May be, whenever he comes to bat, he puts extra pressure on himself to survive, rather than actually play own game - that's scoring runs, which will never work. I still think, he was the better choice for Test No. 3; but truth is - he has a pair there.

Not saying it will definitely work, but may be, best way to deal with him is decisive role - if he is picked, he must play at a fixed spot & regardless of performance he'll be given a series of matches; or don't pick him at all. It's not helping him, or his team.

Personally, I'll pick Asad any day in my ODI team over Azhar & play him in top 3, may be even as opener. Azhar is a better Test player, but not suitable for LOs.

Asad Shafiq was played for 14 series in a row from his debut to '14. He failed in all of them.

Since then while his appearances, deservedly, have been here and there but he again got 2 full series against NZ and Aus and 5 easy games against Zim. He mucked them all up.

This consistency myth needs to go. And even if this myth was true the fact he cannot fire even in ONE game is downright pathetic.

And the saddest bit is, its all down to him failing mentally. The guy has the talent, no doubt.

 

[Bilal7]

Shafiq needs time to settle himself before he gains the confidence to score some boundaries and get his eye in. If he started every ODI innings at 20 from 40 balls, you'd see him score at a much faster SR.

Azhar being a "strokeless wonder" in tests is out of choice, rather than design. He knows that he has all the time in the world and so, doesn't bother with keeping his SR up. He has also batted in the top order where blunting the new ball is also very important. We saw that he can bat at a higher SR during the Maghrib chase against Sri Lanka.

 

[FlickedOffHips]

The trick to get Shafiq confident is to get him to watch tapes of Kohli batting, Kohli trashing opponents, Kohli talking about batting, Kohli talking about his technique, Kohli talking about being the best. Over and over again.

Inspiration will strike folks, and Shafiq will become known as the 'Shafter'.

 

[Mamoon]

Shafiq needs time to settle himself before he gains the confidence to score some boundaries and get his eye in. If he started every ODI innings at 20 from 40 balls, you'd see him score at a much faster SR.

Azhar being a "strokeless wonder" in tests is out of choice, rather than design. He knows that he has all the time in the world and so, doesn't bother with keeping his SR up. He has also batted in the top order where blunting the new ball is also very important. We saw that he can bat at a higher SR during the Maghrib chase against Sri Lanka.

No, it is down to his limitations as a batsman. No one decides to be a strokeless wonder if the have the shots in their arsenal, but when they don't, they decide to play around it. I wonder why the other top Test batsmen in the world bother to keep their SR up, since they all pretty much regularly strike at 50 and above.

He is mediocre in ODIs precisely due to the same limitations as well.

 

[Mamoon]

The trick to get Shafiq confident is to get him to watch tapes of Kohli batting, Kohli trashing opponents, Kohli talking about batting, Kohli talking about his technique, Kohli talking about being the best. Over and over again.

Inspiration will strike folks, and Shafiq will become known as the 'Shafter'.

Confidence will not turn a kitten into a lion, the gulf in ability between Shafiq and Kohli is too, too big for confidence to bridge the gap. Nonetheless, the lack of confidence in his game cannot be ignored, but what can one do about it?

How much time does he need to get over his mental block (if there is one in the first place) and become confident? He is 31 years old and has played what, 70 ODIs now?

I'm afraid the mental block/lack of self-belief excuse has run dry.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Asad will never be a successful ODI batsman because he is just too timid. Azhar on the other hand is much more mentally tough.

 

[FlickedOffHips]

Confidence will not turn a kitten into a lion, the gulf in ability between Shafiq and Kohli is too, too big for confidence to bridge the gap. Nonetheless, the lack of confidence in his game cannot be ignored, but what can one do about it?

How much time does he need to get over his mental block (if there is one in the first place) and become confident? He is 31 years old and has played what, 70 ODIs now?

I'm afraid the mental block/lack of self-belief excuse has run dry.

not a lion but a cornered tiger .

i hear you though. i have not seen him extensively in ODIs but from what i know he has a good technique. The performance then is all mental related. I always maintain that the latter can be improved after a player gets to International level and the former can't(except a few cases).

 

[Bilal7]

No, it is down to his limitations as a batsman. No one decides to be a strokeless wonder if the have the shots in their arsenal, but when they don't, they decide to play around it. I wonder why the other top Test batsmen in the world bother to keep their SR up, since they all pretty much regularly strike at 50 and above.

He is mediocre in ODIs precisely due to the same limitations as well.

In tests, batsmen can definitely make that choice. Look at Cook. If you can gurantee the team 10 extra runs by taking up 30 extra balls, why wouldn't you? I'm sure every coach in the world would want their opener or #3 doing this too.

Of course, he's not in the class of some of the top batsmen going around, where they can transition from scoring at a SR of 50 in tests to scoring at a SR of 90 in ODIs. Azhar's SR in both tests and ODIs is lower but, in tests, some of that is due to the choices he makes.

Once again, look at the Maghrib chase to see Azhar bring some of his ODI game to the test format.

 

[Mamoon]

In tests, batsmen can definitely make that choice. Look at Cook. If you can gurantee the team 10 extra runs by taking up 30 extra balls, why wouldn't you? I'm sure every coach in the world would want their opener or #3 doing this too.

Cook has limitations as well. He just cannot score quickly, and that is why he failed in ODIs. These limitations don't mean that you cannot be a quality Test player. Plenty of Test greats have had these limitations, including Justin Langer who along with Cook, is one of the finest openers of the modern era. Azhar of course is one of the best in the world right now in spite of these limitations. There is no point in justifying the limitations of the said players as a tactical decision because it is not, it is simply their way of scoring runs by keeping their shortcomings at bay.

Of course, he's not in the class of some of the top batsmen going around, where they can transition from scoring at a SR of 50 in tests to scoring at a SR of 90 in ODIs. Azhar's SR in both tests and ODIs is lower but, in tests, some of that is due to the choices he makes.

Once again, look at the Maghrib chase to see Azhar bring some of his ODI game to the test format.

One or two examples don't mean much. Azhar has consistently struggled to bat at a good SR in ODIs and when he does, he takes too many risks and play a lot of low percentage shots. Simply put, Azhar has to sweat a lot to maintain an 80+ SR in ODIs and cannot do so effortlessly like many other batsmen, which of course is down to his lack of shots, which has contributed to his low SR in Tests as well. You pretty much answered it yourself in your second paragraph.

 

[Bilal7]

Cook has limitations as well. He just cannot score quickly, and that is why he failed in ODIs. These limitations don't mean that you cannot be a quality Test player. Plenty of Test greats have had these limitations, including Justin Langer who along with Cook, is one of the finest openers of the modern era. Azhar of course is one of the best in the world right now in spite of these limitations. There is no point in justifying the limitations of the said players as a tactical decision because it is not, it is simply their way of scoring runs by keeping their shortcomings at bay.


One or two examples don't mean much. Azhar has consistently struggled to bat at a good SR in ODIs and when he does, he takes too many risks and play a lot of low percentage shots. Simply put, Azhar has to sweat a lot to maintain an 80+ SR in ODIs and cannot do so effortlessly like many other batsmen, which of course is down to his lack of shots, which has contributed to his low SR in Tests as well. You pretty much answered it yourself in your second paragraph.

I am giving you reasons for why Azhar is better than Shafiq in ODIs. He's better because he is mentally stronger than Shafiq and plays more of his shots in the shorter format. Shots that he would keep hidden away when he's blunting the new ball in test matches.

 

[Abid Z]

Azhar from day one had stickability and defence in abundance. His game has been built around a stodgy defence and very limited stroke play. He looks like a thoughtful character that is aware of his limitations and looking to expand his game despite early criticism that he was from the tuk tuk brigade and failed to turn the strike over. I also think he is liked and mentored by the others in the team and takes on board coaching advice to expand his game.

Asad has more strokes and is a far fluent player. He is shorter and more nimble on his feet. But he has younis's flaw in that he pokes around in the first few overs and looks jittery going at balls hard and leaving gaps between pad and bat. It of course is a mental thing that he feels he should be getting a move on with things but I think he looks muddled. Some say he's technically sound...well maybe but i think he's mentally fragile. Can't make runs in pressure situations but okay for tests.

 

[khurram39]

Azhar and shafiq both are not suitable for one day team. We need their replacement and in the form of Haris sohail we may get that.

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

Apart from psychological issues, Asad is a sort of player who relies a lot on boundaries. Even in test cricket, he has much greater boundaries/runs ratio as compared to Azhar. While there are enough gaps available in test cricket for him to be in his comfort zone, the LOI field set up cuts his scoring options significantly. Plus he struggles to rotate the strike in LOI fields. More like VVS or Ashwin.

This is what I've seen as well. He can't find the gaps in ODI cricket with the high standard of bowling.

That combined with his lack of confidence in going after the bowlers with big shots means his strike rate is pathetic.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

I'd say that its due to his personality. He himself admits that he's an introvert and like to play within himself and not in the spotlight.

In ODIs you have to take on the bowlers and try to be the guy the opposition wants to get out ASAP.

Shafiq is the guy who'd rather duck short balls, bunt good-length balls for the least risky single and dab loose balls for a couple. Whenever he tries to go for a big shot he gets out.

Think opposite of Miandad.

In Tests, the bowlers have to take on the batsmen as the batsmen have all the time in the world and that same fact probably allows Shafiq to settle and once he's settled he trusts his ability/technique and plays his shots.

 

[Choudhry_emad]

Asad is not a limited overs player.
He needs that extra time to settle..
Brilliant for test matches

 

[JibranAnsari]

His inability to find gaps on good length deliveries hamper his progress in ODIs , in tests he can wait for bad deliveries but in Odis he is forced to play with good strike rate and he fails. He has a fine technique and good defence but scoring runs on deliveries which are not too full and not too short is his Achilles heel.

 

[Canistani Hero]

Both of them should be test specialists, with ODI average scores hitting 340, an innings like 40 (75) is criminal, you need all batsman to be playing in excess of 80 strike rate. No need to mould them for ODI and ruin their test game, protect your investment.

 

[LegendAli]

Shafiq will take time but we must keep this man away from LOI's because he is a solid guy in the test team, same goes for Azhar.

Azhar's better though...can't analyse

Shafiq will take time? Oh brother here we go.

Dude's retirement is coming up in a few years and here is this guy saying Shafiq will take some time.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

It's simple. Azhar got confidence because he was made captain and opened the innings. He knew that he would get an extended run in the side. Asad on the other hand knows that if he fails too much, he will be dropped for good which is why he is such a nervous wreck while batting. Both are awful ODI players though and shouldn't be near the ODI side. No point is discussing and comparing two mediocre players in this format. We should just compare them in Tests. Azhar is an excellent Test player (one of the best in the world) and Asad is a very good Test player.

 

[Analyst]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
I think no one has able to answer ur exact question as to why Azhar is better in ODIs...even i dont hv the answer...i some times there must be a significant difference in how white and red balls too cox some players have contrasting performances in different formats..other than that i think Azhar get chances at the top whr fielders r up but still he is able to score big runs n hundred..may be Azhar has a better temperament

 

[fasihulhaq94]

Azhar though a mediocre odi player is better than shafiq BOTH in ODIs and Tests. The difference in average is significant even in the longest format and that is simply due to one reason: mental toughness