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Why is Babar Azam being judged on the toughest tour of Australia?

Dr_Bassim

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First a disclaimer.

I am not a blind supporter of Babar Azam or anyone of the Akmal clan and I am not going to defend Babar for his atrocious display so far on this tour.

But in his defense, all the fans, that ask him to be dropped have to realize he is the best player out of the Pakistan domestics we probably have right now.

He has the right technique and style. Only his temperament has issues but not any major issues. His cousin had more issues than him, and was rightfully sidelines for those issues.

But for Babar, this tour is a learning curve. We can't really judge his abilities from this tour.

Have we ever judged our previous players on how they are performing in Australia or New Zealand? Surely if we did, all of those great superstars of Pakistan like Yousaf and Inzi would also be found wanting.

Babar deserves a couple of home series in the UAE before being labelled a complete failure just like the rest of our team.

He deserves to be persisted with longer and not thrown out just because of a poor Australian tour.

And while we are on topic, so does Sami (instead of brainless Sharjeel).
 
Shouldn't be dropped. But he really needs to start moving his feet. Has been dismissed on the back foot too much. I don't have a problem with giving young players a long rope, but we should also look at output while he is batting. He seems to have regressed with every innings on this tour
 
Can't drop him now. The only way he's going to get better is by playing more international cricket. If he goes back to domestic cricket he'll turn into a hack.
 
Toughest , really?

Mentally it could be tough but I think the batting conditions were really good. Just a bot of more bounce that subcontinent batsmen are used to , but the thing is babar azam was never undone by the bounce in any innings. He showed no application at all to stay at the wicket and score some runs , at times he was lazy and other times he was impatient. He should definitely be judged on the batting performance , his weaknesses are there to see. Yes he will play the next tour given lack of any good batsmen in domestic but his poor performances can not be put under rug.
 
I would like to add if anything, there is more of a case for Amir to be dropped before Babar.

Impotent bowler who was negated easily all the time by Australia except for 4 fer in Brisbane 1st innings.

Pakistan does not have good batsmen in domestics but we have plenty of bowlers who can bowl like Amir (swing for 2-3 overs and then gun barrel straight for rest of the day).

If we are averse to dropping Amir, then surely we should also hold our horses on Babar Azam who is still just as young as Amir.
 
I would like to add if anything, there is more of a case for Amir to be dropped before Babar.

Impotent bowler who was negated easily all the time by Australia except for 4 fer in Brisbane 1st innings.

Pakistan does not have good batsmen in domestics but we have plenty of bowlers who can bowl like Amir (swing for 2-3 overs and then gun barrel straight for rest of the day).

If we are averse to dropping Amir, then surely we should also hold our horses on Babar Azam who is still just as young as Amir.

Everyone should be judged on their performance. Aamir is not competing for babar azams batting spot and neither is Azam competing for aamir's bowling spot.
Sadly, though aamir has batted better than babar
 
I wouldn't have cared if he was batting at six, but he has gotten preferential treatment from Mickey the revolutionary which you can't deny. Shafiq should have been batting at his position but got demoted just after a few failures.
 
Azhar and Asad were exactly in Babar's shoes when they started out in 2010. Had the team management (Misbah, Waqar and the selectors) discarded Azhar and Asad then, they wouldn't have become the players they are now. They learned by batting in the international circuit against quality bowlers.

We need to nurture Babar the same way right now. Invest in him despite his failures because he looks a good batsman with the right basics in place. Just don't send him to our domestic setup. He's hardly going to learn about his deficiencies against the likes of Ehsan, Talha type bowlers who have zero IQ.
 
I would like to add if anything, there is more of a case for Amir to be dropped before Babar.

Impotent bowler who was negated easily all the time by Australia except for 4 fer in Brisbane 1st innings.

Pakistan does not have good batsmen in domestics but we have plenty of bowlers who can bowl like Amir (swing for 2-3 overs and then gun barrel straight for rest of the day).

If we are averse to dropping Amir, then surely we should also hold our horses on Babar Azam who is still just as young as Amir.

Both of them deserved to be dropped to be very honest.. no one is averse to dropping Amir, however Babar Azam is getting the same favoritism Amir is getting.. for a test Match novice you are getting alot of 'special status' treatment that youu don't deserve
 
I wouldn't have cared if he was batting at six, but he has gotten preferential treatment from Mickey the revolutionary which you can't deny. Shafiq should have been batting at his position but got demoted just after a few failures.

Only 3 to be exact.. 2 in a dead rubber..

there is one criteria for others.. and there is one criteria for the 'golden boys'

We are looking for them.. and we go out of the way to make way for them..

That's Pakistan management for you in one summary...

Misbah did better when none of these golden boys existed.. the team was balance, it had mediocre and harworking players, and that is how they stamped their mark...

Ever since we started including these 'special' 'gifted' players.. the team has again developed that unpredictability it had from the 90s
 
I wouldn't have cared if he was batting at six, but he has gotten preferential treatment from Mickey the revolutionary which you can't deny. Shafiq should have been batting at his position but got demoted just after a few failures.

I think it's the opposite.

I think Babar has been sacrificed as a third opener to allow Asad Shafiq to stay in his comfort zone.

I think Starc and Hazelwood have found a small technical glitch with Babar playing back to balls he should go forward to. That's common with batsmen who aren't used to extra bounce.

But overall he has been fine - as was Sami Aslam - and he needs to be persisted with.
 
I think it's the opposite.

I think Babar has been sacrificed as a third opener to allow Asad Shafiq to stay in his comfort zone.

I think Starc and Hazelwood have found a small technical glitch with Babar playing back to balls he should go forward to. That's common with batsmen who aren't used to extra bounce.

But overall he has been fine - as was Sami Aslam - and he needs to be persisted with.

Asad Shafiq has openly admitted that he wants to bat at three. Babar batting at three is Mickey's decision, because he feels Babar is best suited to that position.
 
Mickey is right, Babar is the right candidate for the number 3 position. We must be patient.
 
because some reputable ppers considered him as once in a generation talent. The one with one of the brightest future. Though later on those statements were diluted with the word "potential". :D

Though its too late now

eg ^
 
Mickey is right, Babar is the right candidate for the number 3 position. We must be patient.

Patience does not mean giving a chance to a batsman for 25 test matches :facepalm:'
Aka asking other top performers in domestic to wait for 2 years :)) :)))
 
He must be persisted with. He will come off age. He needs just one big innings to put it around the corner. He looked a bit afraid all the time he came to bat in this series. Today it looked as if he didn't wanted to bat. That's just nervousness and he will surely improve on that aspect. We fans need to be patient.
 
Patience does not mean giving a chance to a batsman for 25 test matches :facepalm:'
Aka asking other top performers in domestic to wait for 2 years :)) :)))

Not every top performer in domestic cricket gets a chance. It doesn't happen in any country. That is why you have selectors and not computers. Babar is the right candidate due to multiple reasons, and we must be patient.
 
Younis, Misbah, Azhar, Asad & Sarfraz have more experience and should be making more runs than babar and sami but looks like

Azhar, Asad only making runs but not everytime only azhar from his last 4 inns including today... asad again inconsistent as usual...

Sami and babar two budding young guns who showed promise in conditions foreign to them and they are yet to have a feast run in UAE, ppl talk about sacking them...crazy stuff...
 
Why was he played if he wasn't gonna be judged on this tour
 
If Babar Azam is given decent chances at test level, then I think our selectors did a mistake by not giving enough test match opportunities to Fawad Alam, even though he had a brilliant debut to his test career scoring 168 runs in 2nd innings against Sri Lanka when other batsmen completely failed.

Match link: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/403368.html

When Misbah retires, Fawad Alam should be the ideal replacement, hopefully our selectors can realize his importance in test matches soon.
 
They should not drop him as he is supposedly more talented than Virat Kohli and a potential all time great and the first batsman ever to achieve 50+ average in three formats of game.
 
Let us see how he does in the 2nd innings. If he doesn't perform than He should be moved to number 6 spot.

I don't agree that He should be dropped from the playing eleven or squad. He should be selected for the tour of West Indies and after that series of 2 or 3 Tests it should be decided whether Babar should be retained or not. If Babar averages 35 in West Indies I would like him to be retained in Test 11 and Test squad and should be developed in Test team plus He should play all Fc matches when he is available.


With Misbah and Younis retiring I don't see Pakistan going with their Top 2 and experienced batsman to bat at 2 and 3. This would mean that once Azhar and Asad are gone than there will be no experienced player in the middle. Ideally Azhar should Bat at 3 and Asad at 5 but given the success Azhar has tasted as opener Azhar should keep opening and Asad should bat at number 4 with Usman Salahuddin coming in at number 3. Usman is not as dynamic and versatile as Babar but I have seen that He has succeeded on pitches and in seasons which have been dominated by pacers mainly. An example of that is 3rd last season where He singlehandedly took SBP to semifinal and final while all his team mates failed and finally Babar came off in the final with a superb double hundred. So Usman will blunt the new ball incase we lose an early wicket. Than at number 5 I would like to see fit again Haris Sohail if not than Saud Shakil with Babar coming in at 6 and Sarfraz at 7.


It would be magical to see Saud & Babar batting at 5 and 6.


Wrt Umar Akmal's comeback it is highly unlikely though Mickey Arthur sees Umar Akmal as a player for all 3 formats. His attitude, maturity level is poor, his game awareness is poor, fitness is poor, cricketing intelligence is poor. He should be given a task. Score 900 plus runs in a season with 3+ Fc hundreds and we will select you for the Test squad of 16-17. Earn it otherwise No. Still personally I don't see him improving in the aspects I have discussed above unless he gets reformed and develops reading habit (Unlikely).


Unfortunately the most senior and prolific scorer Fawad Alam misses out from my Test squad. On merit he deserves a Test Call more than anyone.
 
These pitches are pan cake flat. Pretty easy to bat on. You can see Aus youngsters with no international experience playing like Bradman on the same pitches.

The only thing I give to Babar is that this is his first tour of Aus. He will only improve from this experience. He is Pak's best young player.
 
2011 Australian tour almost at the same age virat kohli scored 75 and 44 in Perth and 113 in adeliad
 
It was always going to be a tough tour for a new boy and that too at the number 3 position. Why is it that a 21 year old has to face Starc and Hazelwood at peaks and the oldies and golden boy can show up when they are tired?

Babar is still the best bat we have produced in a long long while and there is not a single batsman in domestics who can match up to his potential. From the next tour when YK and Misbah aren't around Asad should be at number 3 and Babar at number 4. We can play Salahuddin at 5 and perhaps Umar Akmal at 6 (although Akmal hasn't done much in domestics).
 
Barbar has been batting on very very very very very very very very very very very flat tracks and has found ugly ways to get out. I think babar game against good and fast bowling is very weak, against spin he is quite average. I have seen him struggle against Tait in PSL he was batting like a tailender with weak eye sights,

He is the best batting talent we have in Pakistan

He really need to hit a lot of balls in machhine gun with 95 MPH..
 
Because in the last year, we have made threads to drop every single Pakistan player playing in this test series. Before this test, Azhar was suppose to be dropped for his slow runrate in test match. We want to drop every player after a bad series.
 
Because in the last year, we have made threads to drop every single Pakistan player playing in this test series. Before this test, Azhar was suppose to be dropped for his slow runrate in test match. We want to drop every player after a bad series.

I feel your pain bro.
 
From whatever I have observed about Babar is that he is technically correct batsman, looks assured whatever length of time he stays at the wicket and keen to score quickly but the problem with him is that at times he gives you feeling of being lazy/ disinterested and that reflects in his fielding as well.
 
why was amin judged based on his performance in one of the most bowling friendly series. This happens dude , and batting conditions in australia were pretty good.
 
I agree with OP. Azam is a very fine talent and should not be dropped based on this tour. He is Pakistan's most promising youngster.

Despite YK scoring a ton, Pakistan should plan for tbe future and personally I'd love to see Umar Akmal back in the test middle order in place of Misbah, while another youngster can be brought in place of YK.
 
The conditions haven't been bad at all and in fact, they have been rather batting friendly.

He just isn't ready for Test cricket and especially, start batting at 3.

Just watch, he is going to start scoring freely in the ODI series and rack up the runs.
 
It was always going to be a tough tour for a new boy and that too at the number 3 position. Why is it that a 21 year old has to face Starc and Hazelwood at peaks and the oldies and golden boy can show up when they are tired?

Babar is still the best bat we have produced in a long long while and there is not a single batsman in domestics who can match up to his potential. From the next tour when YK and Misbah aren't around Asad should be at number 3 and Babar at number 4. We can play Salahuddin at 5 and perhaps Umar Akmal at 6 (although Akmal hasn't done much in domestics).

Starc and Hazelwood is one thing, but Lyon?

We are in familiar Akmal clan territory. He may well be the most promising bat we have seen in a long time but has to actually perform is he is to be called the best.

Asad at no 3 looked like a disaster so far. Far too inconsistent
 
I agree with OP. Azam is a very fine talent and should not be dropped based on this tour. He is Pakistan's most promising youngster.

Despite YK scoring a ton, Pakistan should plan for tbe future and personally I'd love to see Umar Akmal back in the test middle order in place of Misbah, while another youngster can be brought in place of YK.

Why could he not go back to domestics work no his concentration and application and ability to play spin and then come back in a year? If he can't handle being dropped for a while I doubt he is long term Test material.
 
There should be no doubts over his place in the side. He's a quality batsman. However, he perhaps is not a #3 but I sincerely hope he proves me wrong in his final innings of the series.
 
It was always going to be a tough tour for a new boy and that too at the number 3 position. Why is it that a 21 year old has to face Starc and Hazelwood at peaks and the oldies and golden boy can show up when they are tired?

Babar is still the best bat we have produced in a long long while and there is not a single batsman in domestics who can match up to his potential. From the next tour when YK and Misbah aren't around Asad should be at number 3 and Babar at number 4. We can play Salahuddin at 5 and perhaps Umar Akmal at 6 (although Akmal hasn't done much in domestics).

1) Azhar
2) Sami
3) Haris
4) Babar
5) Shafiq
6) Fawad/Salahuddin/Rizwan/Akmal
7) Sarfaraz (c) (wk)

Can't wait to see these guys bat together.
 
Give him a long rope and Babar will serve plenty of humble pie. Can't wait till he does.
 
Babar should be at number 6 in tests. This would be my lineup for next series:

1. Azhar
2. Sami
3. Shafiq
4. Younis
5. Fawad Alam
6. Babar
7. Sarfaraz
 
All for persisting with new talent, but where is the learning between the innings. Same dismissal
 
Has emphatically failed, but he will be stronger for the experience but does need to do serious work on his technique, temperament and mentality if he is to become a good batsman in the best format of the game.
 
Has emphatically failed, but he will be stronger for the experience but does need to do serious work on his technique, temperament and mentality if he is to become a good batsman in the best format of the game.
His series reminded me of Kohli vs Anderson in England. Except it was Azam vs Hazlewood in Australia.
 
It's a minor technical flaw which Australia have exploited well. No need to get all worked up. All young batsmen go through this early in their career. He will correct it inshaAllah.
 
All for persisting with new talent, but where is the learning between the innings. Same dismissal

Learning between innings for a young man who recently made his Debut playing in tough conditions :lol:

Why not?

Why didn't he completely remodel his batting, change his style between innings :lol:

Should have just started batting left handed
 
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Only 3 bad Tests really. Recently scored 90*. Only 22 years old.
Mickey said he will persist with him.
 
Babar has two technical flaws which he has to correct.

One being the head not aligned with the front foot at point of contact which makes him play in front of the body and throw his hands. He does improve later on in the innings but Hazlewood and Starc have exploited it well by not letting him settle. Kohli had this initially which he corrected by raising his backlift which eased weight transfer on to the frontfoot while retaining enough balance to keep the front leg moving.

The other is the bat face closing when targeting the legside because of his rubber like wrists. He's gotta tighten his grip or get an oval handle which provides a firmer grip and is ideal for batsmen having difficult keeping their bat straight.

The second one is a minor one because it just takes mental awareness and a conscious effort to play straighter until you've settled to overcome it.

He's very early into his career. Give the kid some time. No other country treats their top talent like this. They invest in them because they understand batting. Pakistanis don't. Y'all are too impatient and expect results from day one. Warner, Kohli, Root, AB, Amla, Smith, Williamson, none of the top batsmen today started as perfect batsmen. They were invested in and their technical glitches corrected.
 
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It's a shame that he's batting at number 3 so early in his career when more experienced players are hiding down the order below him.
 
It's a shame that he's batting at number 3 so early in his career when more experienced players are hiding down the order below him.

Nobody is hiding. It was the management and coach's decision to bat him at 3.
 
Babar should be at number 6 in tests. This would be my lineup for next series:

1. Azhar
2. Sami
3. Shafiq
4. Younis
5. Fawad Alam
6. Babar
7. Sarfaraz

Shafiq is Rubbish with The new Bowl He need 40 over Ball
 
Learning between innings for a young man who recently made his Debut playing in tough conditions :lol:

Why not?

Why didn't he completely remodel his batting, change his style between innings :lol:

Should have just started batting left handed

Post quality indicates not having played much cricket
 
Babar has two technical flaws which he has to correct.

One being the head not aligned with the front foot at point of contact which makes him play in front of the body and throw his hands. He does improve later on in the innings but Hazlewood and Starc have exploited it well by not letting him settle. Kohli had this initially which he corrected by raising his backlift which eased weight transfer on to the frontfoot while retaining enough balance to keep the front leg moving.

The other is the bat face closing when targeting the legside because of his rubber like wrists. He's gotta tighten his grip or get an oval handle which provides a firmer grip and is ideal for batsmen having difficult keeping their bat straight.

The second one is a minor one because it just takes mental awareness and a conscious effort to play straighter until you've settled to overcome it.

He's very early into his career. Give the kid some time. No other country treats their top talent like this. They invest in them because they understand batting. Pakistanis don't. Y'all are too impatient and expect results from day one. Warner, Kohli, Root, AB, Amla, Smith, Williamson, none of the top batsmen today started as perfect batsmen. They were invested in and their technical glitches corrected.

I don't think renshaw or handscomb have a classical technique, but they seem to have a sense of how to score their runs. I am all for giving chances, but the player should at least show some semblance of courage
 
Babar and sami both should get WI tour

Azhar
Sharjeel
Babar
Younis
Sami
Asad
Sarfaraz

This is the team to go with.

Or try and get an all rounder in.
 
I don't think renshaw or handscomb have a classical technique, but they seem to have a sense of how to score their runs. I am all for giving chances, but the player should at least show some semblance of courage

They're batting at home with their main guns doing the bulk of the scoring. He's batting at 3, away from home, in Australia where there's more mental pressure applied than anywhere else. They are true students of the game and will exploit any little weakness you have. Pakistan on the other hand have not bowled with any sort of plan to those two. Just contain and hope for the best.
 
I don't think renshaw or handscomb have a classical technique, but they seem to have a sense of how to score their runs. I am all for giving chances, but the player should at least show some semblance of courage

Playing in your own backyard does wonders to your confidence because normally team also does well at same time.

But what does that have to do with missing straight balls

It happens with many players in early years due to nervousness. Based on what I have seen , he is probably not ready for number 3 position. Pushed too early for that position.
 
Babar should bat at #6, till he gets his confidence back. Shafiq deserves a promotion to #3 as well.
 
Was bound to fail. Not amongst the top FC performers by a long shot, and yet you expect him to light the Test world on fire? It's like saying an anatomy student who can't dissect a cadaver today will perform CABG tomorrow (note: not day after tomorrow).
 
I think Babar might be a case of premature selection in one format based on his exploits in another format. Typical mishap by PCB.

Babar doesn't have a stellar FC record to suggest that he would do well in Test cricket, perhaps PCB selected him more on potential than absolute substance.

He is far too loose to do well in test cricket at this stage in his career. First should make a career in ODI and T20 cricket before jumping onto the test team.
 
First a disclaimer.
He has the right technique and style. Only his temperament has issues but not any major issues.

excuse me? what temperament issue? he never stayed on the wicket long enough to see his temperament plus he did not play any rash shot. so what tempramental issues are you talking about?

what it means that he has technical issues espepcilaly against the ball that comes in plus he could not handle bounce that well either
 
He has had a really bad tour but I think we need to give youngsters at least 10 matches , heck Mohammad Amir has got 11 so far after his return. I am not comparing him with kohli but kohli had a woeful tour of england in 2014 , he averaged around 13 and in the very next series he racked up 600 plus runs in a series. I wanted him out after this series but I guess we should give him at least one more full series.
 
He was selected because he scored 90 on a green pitch against NZ, so no it wasn't a premature move by PCB.
 
The Akmal brothers would have done better than Babar. He definitely looked out of sorts in Australia. I suppose he will do well in West Indies - the next big test for Babar will be South Africa against the likes of Rabada, Steyn and Philander.
 
batting wise how is Australia supposed to the toughest tour?
 
excuse me? what temperament issue? he never stayed on the wicket long enough to see his temperament plus he did not play any rash shot. so what tempramental issues are you talking about?

what it means that he has technical issues espepcilaly against the ball that comes in plus he could not handle bounce that well either

Bad tour for him but needs to be persisted with.

Kohli had a bad tour of England averaging nearly the same.

We are not spoiled for alternatives.

Must persevere.
 
Babar has two technical flaws which he has to correct.

One being the head not aligned with the front foot at point of contact which makes him play in front of the body and throw his hands. He does improve later on in the innings but Hazlewood and Starc have exploited it well by not letting him settle. Kohli had this initially which he corrected by raising his backlift which eased weight transfer on to the frontfoot while retaining enough balance to keep the front leg moving.

The other is the bat face closing when targeting the legside because of his rubber like wrists. He's gotta tighten his grip or get an oval handle which provides a firmer grip and is ideal for batsmen having difficult keeping their bat straight.

The second one is a minor one because it just takes mental awareness and a conscious effort to play straighter until you've settled to overcome it.

He's very early into his career. Give the kid some time. No other country treats their top talent like this. They invest in them because they understand batting. Pakistanis don't. Y'all are too impatient and expect results from day one. Warner, Kohli, Root, AB, Amla, Smith, Williamson, none of the top batsmen today started as perfect batsmen. They were invested in and their technical glitches corrected.

Good analysis bro. Agree with last paragraph especially.
 
Hope he learns from the tour of Australia that international cricket is tough and ruthless.

He's a good batsman but there are definitely areas he needs to work on.
 
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batting wise how is Australia supposed to the toughest tour?

Absolutely. if any body says batting conditions are difficult in australia are living in lala land.u cannot find better batting conditions than australia anywhere in the world.no swing,no seam, no spin,nice bounce if u stay for 5 overs u can play u r shots and very difficult to get out
 
batting wise how is Australia supposed to the toughest tour?

for Asian teams it is..especially for Pak batsmen. Lot more bounce and carry and ball comes more quick onto the bat than the UAE pitches.
 
Pakistan should learn from their mistakes and preserve such talented batsmen. Failures are part of learning curve. Baber has potential to be a very good batsman.let's not waste that soon. He score 3 consecutive centuries,was decent in ENgland,did well in NZ but failed in Aus. give him time. He hasn't been that bat and should be last of our worries.
 
He should be criticised for his poor performance, but being dropped at this stage is unfair. He has failed in a position where all our experienced veterans have - i.e Misbah and Younis Khan. Only batsman who has done well on this tour is Azhar Ali.

I am extremely disappointed though with Babar. Conditions were not menacing. They were different but he should have done better. Also, lets face it there are not any better players than him in the domestic circuit. I was not in favour of him being in the test side as I felt he should have played as an ODI specialist till YK and Misbahs retirement and we would rather have picked Fawad Alam. But now that he has been picked he should be persisted with. An axe here will dent his confidence heavily.
 
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