Why is Pakistan so poor in home conditions?

[mominsaigol]

Not every side is dominant at home but typically they manage to play their best cricket in their own den.

That is not the case with Pakistan. Infact post 2000's, Pakistan seems to perform better when their away, the most common example being their unbeaten test run in the UAE.

At home, they suck, plain and simple. The most competitive they've been recently against wi and eng was primarily due to crafting lottery pitches and being lucky enough to win the toss and bat first. Eventually WI burst that bubble.

I thought we were dominant at home since we managed to destroy c side NZ the last time they toured, but now that they're playing full strength, they beat us black and blue, 10 ways to Sunday.

 

[Rajdeep]

Pakistan's strength has always been bowling - pace or spin. The main usp of Pakistan cricket is score whatever runs they can and rely on bowlers to defend it. However, the tracks in Pakistan are super flat due to weather or whatever. So most teams out bat them on those pitches. That is why Pakistan had more success in countries like India or UAE/Sharjah compared to their home grounds.

 

[mominsaigol]

Pakistan's strength has always been bowling - pace or spin. The main usp of Pakistan cricket is score whatever runs they can and rely on bowlers to defend it. However, the tracks in Pakistan are super flat due to weather or whatever. So most teams out bat them on those pitches. That is why Pakistan had more success in countries like India or UAE/Sharjah compared to their home grounds.

Well tbf, the NZ game pitch wasn't flat. It was slow and ball wasn't coming in easily.

NZ scored 330+ because shaheen and naseem kept bowling full tosses and Philips kept scooping it behind the keeper.

And not to mention Khusdil being a rubbish spinner. Genuinely I'm 100% certain I can bowl better spin then he can.

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

Well tbf, the NZ game pitch wasn't flat. It was slow and ball wasn't coming in easily.

NZ scored 330+ because shaheen and naseem kept bowling full tosses and Philips kept scooping it behind the keeper.

And not to mention Khusdil being a rubbish spinner. Genuinely I'm 100% certain I can bowl better spin then he can.

Bro khushdil is a good spinner i have seen his bowling he looks a better bowler that nawaz just need to give him confidence.

 

[mominsaigol]

Bro khushdil is a good spinner i have seen his bowling he looks a better bowler that nawaz just need to give him confidence.

I have seen it as well and he's horrible. Don't let domestics fool you.

The problem with fans Including Myself as im also guilty of it, is that we see one player have a purple patch for like a week and we automatically assume he's a goat.

For example Abdullah shafiq had a purple patch in 2023 where he was basically spamming odi's 50, and 100 and test double centuries vs sri lanka, but after that so called patch ended, where did he end up? He put Pakistan into a situation where they lack one opener.

Then we hyped up Jake Fraser Mcgurk for his list A century. And what did he do in the Pak series? I like JFM and do believe he'll eventually transition into a t20 star but fans thought he'd perform on debut.

Then we hyped up Kamran Ghulam for his century on debut and his 60 of 30 vs SA? I don't think KG is a bad player like others are claiming he is, But he is still an ordinary batter and is not a suitable replacement at no 3.

Usama mir and mohammad ali were also hyped due to PSL and look at the atrocities they committed?

I do believe we need to give players some time as saim ayub took 25+ innings to get settled but their are always certain give aways that determine how good at batter or bowler will be and khusdil doesn't tick any boxes while saim did..

 

[mominsaigol]

I have seen it as well and he's horrible. Don't let domestics fool you.

The problem with fans Including Myself as im also guilty of it, is that we see one player have a purple patch for like a week and we automatically assume he's a goat.

For example Abdullah shafiq had a purple patch in 2023 where he was basically spamming odi's 50, and 100 and test double centuries vs sri lanka, but after that so called patch ended, where did he end up? He put Pakistan into a situation where they lack one opener.

Then we hyped up Jake Fraser Mcgurk for his list A century. And what did he do in the Pak series? I like JFM and do believe he'll eventually transition into a t20 star but fans thought he'd perform on debut.

Then we hyped up Kamran Ghulam for his century on debut and his 60 of 30 vs SA? I don't think KG is a bad player like others are claiming he is, But he is still an ordinary batter and is not a suitable replacement at no 3.

Usama mir and mohammad ali were also hyped due to PSL and look at the atrocities they committed?

I do believe we need to give players some time as saim ayub took 25+ innings to get settled but their are always certain give aways that determine how good at batter or bowler will be and khusdil doesn't tick any boxes while saim did..

With that being said these posters like express pacer, Amjid Javed, Rana, Topspin, Yousafthebeast, RedwoodOriginal and a few others usually never fall for one off performances and have a very keen eye for identifying pakistani and global talent.

 

[moghul]

Pakistan batting has been suspected for decades , bowlers have been bailing out the team most of the time. Batting is still one of the worst in the world and now all major teams have better fast and particularly spin bowlers than Pakistan.

 

[Major]

With that being said these posters like express pacer, Amjid Javed, Rana, Topspin, Yousafthebeast, RedwoodOriginal and a few others usually never fall for one off performances and have a very keen eye for identifying pakistani and global talent.

@Rana claims that kG is better than Babar. Asif Ali should had been the captain of Pakistan team. Azam Khan should be the main wicket keeper.

 

[mominsaigol]

@Rana claims that kG is better than Babar. Asif Ali should had been the captain of Pakistan team. Azam Khan should be the main wicket keeper.

I disagree with some of the claims he has made. But I respect him alot as a poster. He has made certain predictions that have come true.

During 2023 wc many including myself actually believed Pakistan would be very competitive in the world cup. No one believed we had the best team but the way shaheen, Naseem and Rauf were bowling + the way fakhar, Babar, Rizwan, and even imam were batting had everyone convinced.

Rana was the first to predict an absolute horror show, Cause after Asia cup India game, Excluding fakhar, Everyone became either

A) a rubbish batsmen

B) A trundling bowler.

 

[mominsaigol]

I disagree with some of the claims he has made. But I respect him alot as a poster. He has made certain predictions that have come true.

During 2023 wc many including myself actually believed Pakistan would be very competitive in the world cup. No one believed we had the best team but the way shaheen, Naseem and Rauf were bowling + the way fakhar, Babar, Rizwan, and even imam were batting had everyone convinced.

Rana was the first to predict an absolute horror show, Cause after Asia cup India game, Excluding fakhar, Everyone became either

A) a rubbish batsmen

B) A trundling bowler.

@Major

Also just saying, I like you as a poster as well. I disagree with all your choices and selections, But I do agree with your perspectives on spin bowling as well as batting being harder as an opener in PP in 2 new ball era( i disagreed before though).

Just can't agree with your takes on Misbah, Rizwan and Babar though, can make some concessions for Misbah as I can understand his respect due to his test status. Max can make some for Babar in odi's.

Just can't make any for rizwan though. A barely 40 avg batter in test and odi and a poor t20 opener. That's how I see him and will continue to view him as such.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Don't think PAK have ever won an ODI tournament they have hosted outright - not even a tri series, whether it was in Pakistan or elsewhere.

Closest was the 2002 tri series that they hosted in Nairobi which was shared with Australia because the final was rained off.

 

[mominsaigol]

Don't think PAK have ever won an ODI tournament they have hosted outright - not even a tri series, whether it was in Pakistan or elsewhere.

Closest was the 2002 tri series that they hosted in Nairobi which was shared with Australia because the final was rained off.

They would have lost that if the final wasn't rained off, I'm 100% sure of it.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Which conditions are they good in these days?

 

[Devadwal]

Don't think PAK have ever won an ODI tournament they have hosted outright - not even a tri series, whether it was in Pakistan or elsewhere.

Closest was the 2002 tri series that they hosted in Nairobi which was shared with Australia because the final was rained off.

India was the first host Country to won a ICC World Cup in 2011.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

When you are a good team you can win in any condition no matter if it's home or away

When you are a very poor team you will lose in any conditions home or away.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Because they don't have quality batters and bowlers. And are over reliant on individual brilliances

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistan batting has been suspected for decades , bowlers have been bailing out the team most of the time. Batting is still one of the worst in the world and now all major teams have better fast and particularly spin bowlers than Pakistan.

This is how I see it. Pakistan bowling has been up and down during the last couple of decades, but they have not had more than a couple of good batsmen since the days of Inzi, Yousaf and Younis Khan. That was a long time ago.

In an effort to stop opposition teams racking up huge scores, we have started providing lottery pitches as described in the OP. Unfortunately that can just as easily lead to crushing defeats against other weak opposition, the same teams you would normally back yourself on Asian pitches if you had decent spinners.

 

[Hellion]

Pakistan will do much better in South Africa, NZ and Australia where conditions suit their bowlers.

This is why they won ODI series in both places .

 

[shaz619]

Pakistan in recent times could have had their golden generation in ODI’s:

Fakhar Zaman
Saim Ayub
Babar Azam
Mohammad 2x ICC Medal Winner Aamir
Imad Wasim
Haris Rauf
Mohammad Wasim Jnr
Aamir Jammal
Saud Shakeel
Harris Sohail
Agha Salman
Noman Ali
Usama Mir
Sajid Ali
Naseem Shah
Sharjeel Khan
Asif Ali
Mohammad Harris

Heck you even had Gary Kirsten a former WC winner and a respected manager in Jason Gillespie under contract at the same bloody time! Not to mention the services of Mickey Arthur - The former ICC CT Trophy winner.

Literally they’ve had players to fill each hole in the team, when has that ever happened ? not since 1999.

Pakistan has been let down by spineless cricket / players & seniors who have not prioritised the team’s success above all else.

 

[Hyder]

Pakistan is more competitive on fast pitches i believe.
Slow and low pitches both batsman and bowler dont know what to do in those conditions as we saw in t20 world cup

But aqib not liking saud and not including imam is making whole lineup a mess

Open with imam or saud and dont change rest of the batting order

 

[Markhor]

Our white-ball teams have been mediocre home and away for years so not sure home conditions is a factor.

Tests are another matter. In the UAE we had a clear template of attritional batting and spin oriented attacks. Despite a 7 year unbeaten run, there were a segment of fans (especially those who grew up on 2Ws) and amongst the press carping it was "unPakistani".

After the 2017 Champions Trophy when our seamers played leading roles and the nation was drunk on Amir's spell - we decided to pivot to seam. Big mistake. It backfired the first Test we played vs SL though we still should've chased 136.

That would've worked had we actually a decent crop of red-ball quicks to choose from. But the reality remains the last Pakistani pacer to take 200 Test wickets debuted in 1989.

Some will point to Shaheen and co rolling over Sri Lanka and Bangladesh in 2019 and 2020, and to an extent South Africa in 2021 but all were weak teams - and Noman's role in the latter was as crucial. The same pacers have been outbowled by virtually every opponent since including Bangladesh.

Some have a hard time accepting the pace lineage ended with Wasim and Waqar. The rest haven't lasted for various reasons. Our leading matchwinners in Tests since the 1990s are spinners - and there IS a spin lineage from Kaneria, Ajmal, Rehman, Yasir and now Noman/Sajid.

Unfortunately trust Pakistanis to take everything to extremes and instead of standard Asian turners, we produced minefields in Multan which made Warrican look like Herath on steroids, turned the game into a lottery, and it backfired.

 

[Justcrazy]

In white ball cricket Pakistan have struggled because there batters cannot play risk free cricket and solid run rate.
They try to slog there way out but it does not work all the time. You need to have proper technique batter who can accelerate , but instead Pakistan like to rely on sloggers.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Our white-ball teams have been mediocre home and away for years so not sure home conditions is a factor.

Tests are another matter. In the UAE we had a clear template of attritional batting and spin oriented attacks. Despite a 7 year unbeaten run, there were a segment of fans (especially those who grew up on 2Ws) and amongst the press carping it was "unPakistani".

After the 2017 Champions Trophy when our seamers played leading roles and the nation was drunk on Amir's spell - we decided to pivot to seam. Big mistake. It backfired the first Test we played vs SL though we still should've chased 136.

That would've worked had we actually a decent crop of red-ball quicks to choose from. But the reality remains the last Pakistani pacer to take 200 Test wickets debuted in 1989.

Some will point to Shaheen and co rolling over Sri Lanka and Bangladesh in 2019 and 2020, and to an extent South Africa in 2021 but all were weak teams - and Noman's role in the latter was as crucial. The same pacers have been outbowled by virtually every opponent since including Bangladesh.

Some have a hard time accepting the pace lineage ended with Wasim and Waqar. The rest haven't lasted for various reasons. Our leading matchwinners in Tests since the 1990s are spinners - and there IS a spin lineage from Kaneria, Ajmal, Rehman, Yasir and now Noman/Sajid.

Unfortunately trust Pakistanis to take everything to extremes and instead of standard Asian turners, we produced minefields in Multan which made Warrican look like Herath on steroids, turned the game into a lottery, and it backfired.

When it comes to pace bowlers, even Shaheen is unreliable. He can be devastating with the new ball, but it depends which Shaheen turns up. On a bad day he will end up overpitching or spraying too many balls down leg.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

bhai they are equally pathetic in away conditions too

 

[Dr_Bassim]

@Rana claims that kG is better than Babar. Asif Ali should had been the captain of Pakistan team. Azam Khan should be the main wicket keeper.

Those claims aren't entirely preposterous.

Anyone is better than Babar with the performances he is shelling out nowadays.

If BABAR is to captain Pakistan, yes Asif Ali could do no worse

Azam Khan has more chances of winning a T20 game than Rizwan opening the batting but Azam has never been given the opening role.

 

[topspin]

Those claims aren't entirely preposterous.

Anyone is better than Babar with the performances he is shelling out nowadays.

If BABAR is to captain Pakistan, yes Asif Ali could do no worse

Azam Khan has more chances of winning a T20 game than Rizwan opening the batting but Azam has never been given the opening role.

Also, this is coming from a guy who somehow believes 40/0 > 66/1 after 6 overs in a T20 contest.

 

[Buffet]

Not every side is dominant at home but typically they manage to play their best cricket in their own den.

That is not the case with Pakistan. Infact post 2000's, Pakistan seems to perform better when their away, the most common example being their unbeaten test run in the UAE.

At home, they suck, plain and simple. The most competitive they've been recently against wi and eng was primarily due to crafting lottery pitches and being lucky enough to win the toss and bat first. Eventually WI burst that bubble.

I thought we were dominant at home since we managed to destroy c side NZ the last time they toured, but now that they're playing full strength, they beat us black and blue, 10 ways to Sunday.

I think after mid 90s, Pakistan was not that great at home. They were still good due to quality of players in the early periods of the last 30 years or the last 20 years, but I don't think Pakistan played great cricket at home with any consistency in the last 30 years. When you go before mid 90s, Pakistan won a whole lot more than lost and played their best cricket.


85-94 at home - W/L 6.5






95 to 04 at home: W/L 1.1




05 to 14 at home: Due to security situation, only 13 tests were played in Pakistan. Pakistan won 5 and lost 1 so it was very good but sample size is much smaller to draw any conclusion.



15 to 24 at home: W/L 0.8



Last time Pakistan played consistent great cricket at home was from Mid 80s to mid 90s. Then it switched drastically. W/L trend went from 6.xx to 1.xx.

 

[topspin]

Pakistan has never won a white ball ICC tournament held in Asia because they've always thrived in conditions where there's enough in it for bowlers. Unfortunately for them, they've never had the best batting line-up to take advantage of their roads.

You're not going to go far when you're relying on the likes of Wajahtullah Wasti, Misbah, Imran Farhat, Babar Azam and etc to clutch games for you.

 

[Rana]

Those claims aren't entirely preposterous.

Anyone is better than Babar with the performances he is shelling out nowadays.

If BABAR is to captain Pakistan, yes Asif Ali could do no worse

Azam Khan has more chances of winning a T20 game than Rizwan opening the batting but Azam has never been given the opening role.

Bro have you seen the movie called “The Stoning of Soraya M”?

You should study the way the director shows how mob culture works in states where the majority are uneducated or easily enraged. Basically Major is naturally saying things labelling them towards me just as any hate preacher would, believing that’s it’s easy to just turn the ignorant, ill informed masses against the person. That’s basically how lynch mob culture works too.

It’s good that you have actually put him in his place with your assessment because it is absolutely correct. It’s funny how they want to degrade a guy like Asif Ali who actually did win games in crucial moments for Pakistan, and the fact that Azam Khan is 1000% the better keeper+Batter than Fraudwan is in T20 cricket regardless of batting position, yet this Freshy thinks he can easily sway other Freshies like him and make fun of guys who talk proper cricket and not SNGPL horse crap.

 

[Rana]

Also, this is coming from a guy who somehow believes 40/0 > 66/1 after 6 overs in a T20 contest. I

Exactly. A guy who claims Rizwan is better in the middle order over Inzimam ul Haq?

 

[Rana]

@Rana claims that kG is better than Babar. Asif Ali should had been the captain of Pakistan team. Azam Khan should be the main wicket keeper.

KG is better than Babar. He definitely has more urgency for his team than Babar Azam does.

Asif Ali should have been the T20 captain at the time and Pakistan should have built a team that plays for the country first and not it’s agency or individual milestones

Azam Khan is still 10000000% a better keeper+batter option over rizwan in T20s

 

[topspin]

Exactly. A guy who claims Rizwan is better in the middle order over Inzimam ul Haq….?

And what's even more scary is that he also thinks Misbah > Inzi in white ball cricket.

But what I will not tolerate is the fact that he pretends to be like every other Pakistan fan to give them the impression that he cares about the greater good of Pakistan cricket, when actually his agenda is to promote his beloved Misbah. Notable examples of this include Inzamam, Younis Khan and Amir. that's why I won't stop exposing him until he stops all these toxic agendas.

 

[Rana]

Azam Khan has more chances of winning a T20 game than Rizwan opening the batting but Azam has never been given the opening role

Rizwan is a FAILED middle order+Lower order T20 batsman

Rizwan is an INCOMPETENT T20 opener.

How hard is it for people to not understand or see this?

Azam Khan is 100% a better middle order+lower Order T20 batsman than Rizwan can ever be or dream of being.

Azam Khan was tried in some games as an opener in some franchise games, and he didn’t want to go the stat padder route by holding one end like those two frauds Babar and Rizwan do so. Instead he wanted to do justice to the position and wanted to make full use of the powerplay, but it didn’t come off for him. So although there is no statistical proof to suggest Azam is a better T20 opener than Rizwan or Babar, yet there is plenty of proof to suggest Azam still understands the importance of the powerplay and the responsibility an opener has in order to utilise it unlike that uneducated gawaar who doesn’t have the decency to tuck his shirt in, and knows how to give religious sermons in order to get people to love him and overlook his nonsense!

 

[mominsaigol]

And what's even more scary is that he also thinks Misbah > Inzi in white ball cricket.


But what I will not tolerate is the fact that he pretends to be like every other Pakistan fan to give them the impression that he cares about the greater good of Pakistan cricket, when actually his agenda is to promote his beloved Misbah. Notable examples of this include Inzamam, Younis Khan and Amir. that's why I won't stop exposing him until he stops all these toxic agendas.

Exactly. A guy who claims Rizwan is better in the middle order over Inzimam ul Haq….

Rizwan being the 2nd best odi player of all time for pakistan and misbah > Inzimam are defo his weakest claims. Their completly non sensical .

Rizwan barely averages 40 in an era where average batters like Rahul, Shai hope etc etc avg 48 to 50+ and it took saim ayub less then 10 odi innings ro score 3 odi centuries all of em being overseas while Rizwan has the same amount of centuries in odi and is still searching for his first sena ton.

Not to mention saim's century comes against a full strength aussie and sa lineup in their own den whole rizzu's comes against a c side aus and sri lanka on batting g friendly home and Indian dens.

As for Misbah vs Inzi, no comments, First teach misbah the art of scoring an odi century and not bottling games.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Please stay on topic and no personal remarks now

 

[Major]

KG is better than Babar. He definitely has more urgency for his team than Babar Azam does.

Asif Ali should have been the T20 captain at the time and Pakistan should have built a team that plays for the country first and not it’s agency or individual milestones

Azam Khan is still 10000000% a better keeper+batter option over rizwan in T20s

I cant even stop laughing

 

[mominsaigol]

I wonder why even curate phattas. Just curate seam bowling friendly pitches?

The quality of batting and bowling on domestics will improve as a result.

 

[Rana]

I cant even stop laughing

Who else is laughing?

 

[Major]

Those claims aren't entirely preposterous.

Anyone is better than Babar with the performances he is shelling out nowadays.

If BABAR is to captain Pakistan, yes Asif Ali could do no worse

Azam Khan has more chances of winning a T20 game than Rizwan opening the batting but Azam has never been given the opening role.

They are preposterous.

KG needs to prove himself. To say that a guy making his debut is better than the guy who who has made 5k international runs already is ridiculous.

He wanted Asif Ali as captain over every other international cricketer we had at the time. Asif Ali wasnt eveb good enough to lead Ìsb United. He was a senior player there, yet isb ovrr looked him for Shadab. He only got pàrt time captaincy when shadab was out.

If you also think Azam Khan is a better keeper than Rizwan, than lets stop here.....

 

[Rana]

They are preposterous.

KG needs to prove himself. To say that a guy making his debut is better than the guy who who has made 5k international runs already is ridiculous.

He wanted Asif Ali as captain over every other international cricketer we had at the time. Asif Ali wasnt eveb good enough to lead Ìsb United. He was a senior player there, yet isb ovrr looked him for Shadab. He only got pàrt time captaincy when shadab was out.

If you also think Azam Khan is a better keeper than Rizwan, than lets stop here.....

Why stop here? Who do you think you are? What do you think Rizwan is?

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Simple. Club level players always get hammering from intl players.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Poor in Karachi only???