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Why is there a complete lack of interest in the Pakistan coaching positions?

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Shafi

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So far unofficially candidates for Pakistan coaching position:::

Head Coach Dean Jones, Misbah, Wasqar, Mohsin Khan and Walsh
Bowling Coach Waqar, Jalaludding, Md Akram
Batting Coach Md Wasim, Failsal Iqbal
Strength and Conditioning coach Botha

Where are any renowned coaches like Andy Flower, Tom Moody, Pant, Steath...?

Really disappointing and don't know whom to be blamed? Never seen these much of lack of interest in our cricket
 
There are a handful of big names in coaching and either they apply to one or two international vacancies or are satisfied with T20 league payments and that is why the high profile names you are mentioning, most of them havent been coaching international teams for sometime because now they have the option of T20 leagues as well which require less time and pay well.

However you dont need big names in coaching to achieve big things.

India won 2011 WC under Gary Kirsten, he wasnt a big name in coaching at all at that time and was running a coaching academy and didnt have high level coaching experience.

Darren Lehman and Mike Hessen were the coaches of winners and runners up in 2015 WC and they were not at all big names in coaching world at that time when they were hired. Gary Stead the current NZ who led them to final is not a known commodity in the world.

Further not sure about big names but I am pretty sure these are not the only names. Just to give an example do you really think Faisal Iqbal is the only person who has applied for the role of batting coach? Not a big name but Yasir Arafat has also applied for bowling coach position further manifesting the fact that we don’t exactly know who has applied officially till now.
 
I said it in the other thread that experienced coaches or international ones would be far more reluctant to work with an organisation that holds no values and no courage where the future is not secure.

Also coaching a team like Pakistan is not a very rewarding job as it is much of a headache as all the players have massive inflated egos, not sportsmanship attitude to develop themselves and get better so coaches do not tend to understand the style of players or how to go about coaching them.
 
Because it’s a Misbah stitch-up and the second best batsman won’t be picked and the best bowler outside Asia has prematurely retired.

It’s a rubbish job with a team that’s going down the toilet.
 
It is easy as an expert I also don't want to work for weak companies and before accepting the job, I always like to see what I will be working on and what kind of results I can generate.
 
Lack of outstanding talent to work with might be a factor. Previously, despite not having a well organised first class system to provide players, Pakistan has always managed to churn out some great cricketers. Right now the best players all belong to four or five other nations. All Pakistan has is high expectations and delusions of grandeur which the current crop struggle to live up to. Any coach coming in is on a hiding to nothing.
 
@ Titan24, Why PCB is so secretive? Are they scare to be exposed that they didn't do enough to attract good coaches?
 
Junaids said:
Because it’s a Misbah stitch-up and the second best batsman won’t be picked and the best bowler outside Asia has prematurely retired.

It’s a rubbish job with a team that’s going down the toilet.
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Best bowler maybe in England doesn’t equate to best bowler outside Asia.
Also if you are criticizing PCTs future it must really be bad..
Yeah I took the bait.
 
The candidates mentioned like Moody, Kirsten, etc...have already accomplished something in world cricket and have the experience of working with an Asian team. The person who’d take such a role would be an unproven quantity wanting to make his mark in the coaching world with a weak team and making them better.....exactly what drove Mickey to apply last time
 
Pakistan is a hard sell plus most coaches now do not want to work in all three formats.
 
It is a very unattractive job. If you have the options of working with India, England, Australia and the IPL, you wouldn’t think about working with Pakistan.
 
Mamoon said:
It is a very unattractive job. If you have the options of working with India, England, Australia and the IPL, you wouldn’t think about working with Pakistan.
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Forget of h India, England, Australia and the IPL, even WI, BD and SL attracts bigger names than us.
 
Pakistan can just hire a local, would probably be more appropriate for where they are at this stage of their development. When PCB can get the infrastructure right, they will be able to produce better quality players and coaches, then they will attract better coaches from outside as well. No point in trying to run before you can walk.
 
Because you will be the first person to lose your job as soon as the team doesn't start winning matches over night. The fans will be extremely unappreciative of you and the PCB will stand behind the players rather than the coach when things go sideways.

The fans and the PCB have unrealistic expectations from the coach which cannot be met by anyone. The fans and PCB aren't willing to be patient and do what needs to be done to improve Pakistani cricket. They want quick wins, and want coaches to show results over night which will never happen.

With money to be made by coaching other international teams and so many T20 franchise teams around the world now - why give that all up and coach a team who's management and fans see you as disposable and set unrealistic targets for you?
 
The role isn’t deemed to be prestigious enough nor is it well paid to attract the best names. PCB are an incompetent cricketing entity and furthermore, foreigners don’t want to settle in Pakistan for security reasons.

So there’s nothing to be alarmed about, as this was very much expected. Hence why it was shambolic decision to fire Mickey Arthur. He’s far from perfect but he’s also far superior to these unqualified ex-players who don’t possess the cricketing IQ to guide this side.

I’m only aware of the following 3 applicants who’ve applied for the Head Coach role:
1. Misbah
2. Waqar Younis
3. Dean Jones

Some of you might be able to add to this list, so please do if I’ve missed anyone out. Either way it’s a sorry looking list. Two of them are tactical failures while the overseas applicant has no notable international experience to speak off.

It’s funny how some PPers thought we could attract the likes of Hesson and Moody :))
 
Not competitive pay and perks

Too much expectations

Lack of talent

Idiotic comments of former players , who make no sense.
 
topspin said:
The role isn’t deemed to be prestigious enough nor is it well paid to attract the best names. PCB are an incompetent cricketing entity and furthermore, foreigners don’t want to settle in Pakistan for security reasons.

So there’s nothing to be alarmed about, as this was very much expected. Hence why it was shambolic decision to fire Mickey Arthur. He’s far from perfect but he’s also far superior to these unqualified ex-players who don’t possess the cricketing IQ to guide this side.

I’m only aware of the following 3 applicants who’ve applied for the Head Coach role:
1. Misbah
2. Waqar Younis
3. Dean Jones

Some of you might be able to add to this list, so please do if I’ve missed anyone out. Either way it’s a sorry looking list. Two of them are tactical failures while the overseas applicant has no notable international experience to speak off.

It’s funny how some PPers thought we could attract the likes of Hesson and Moody :))
Click to expand...

Waqar didn't apply for Head Coach. But Mohsin Khan appears to have done so.
 
A few reasons:

Salary
Working with the PCB
No job security
 
There are many good points mentioned here and I see some counter logic as well ..., most of those are valid actually, won't add with those.

But, one point that is missing here is the job ad itself - PCB advertised the HC position with a qualification criteria/requirement that probably under per for even a good Club side!!!!! Looking at that ad, then & then I had a feeling that PCB has someone already selected, they have catered the ad to fit in him. And, interestingly all the applicants that we came to know for HC (Misbah, DJ, Walsh, MHK) actually just managed to qualify for that Job specification. Top professionals (their agents) are well aware of these things - they opted not to waste time, looking at the ad. I don't think PCB is that dumb or incompetent (not to prepare or being unable to prepare a proper Job Description for the National HC) - rather, my hunch is that, they deliberately discouraged high profile names from applying.

Otherwise, I don't see salary or benefits (Total cost to company) is a big deal for PCB - they can spend $1.25mn (20 crore PKR)/year for the coaching staff all together - HC, Batting, Bowling, Fielding coach + few other support staffs. Similarly, in a small cricket world, people like Graham Ford is managing Ireland, Phil Simmons was managing Afghans and Heath Streak for ZIM - surely PCT can't be less lucrative in terms of talent pool. BCB is managing a coaching team that reads (so far, 2 other appointments are pending, and Mario's contract will be over by December) -

Head Coach: South Africa Russell Domingo
Batting Coach: South Africa Neil McKenzie
Fast Bowling Coach:South Africa Charl Langeveldt
Spin Bowling Coach: New Zealand Daniel Vettori
Fielding Coach: South Africa Ryan Cook
Strength and Conditioning Coach: Sri Lanka Mario Villavarayan
Team Physiotherapist: South Africa/Italy Julian Calefato

....... so, it can't be money only, neither the talent pool, or as some may like to boast - "the load of expectations" from a team that might go to 8th spot in Test ranking in a week's time.

Obviously, PCB's image a employer has a big role to play in it, and part of that image (building) is these sort of advertisement for HC.
 
Apart from 2 big names did you saw the list of applicants that applied for head coach position for india .?
Quality coaches prefer t20 league which provide them handsome money without any huge effort while doing coaching for international side is very demanding and difficult.Even the most richest board have only 2 quality applicant which tell the story where coaches intrest lies these days
If your team is pathetic than good coaches cannot do jack .Just look at the bd they have hired kirsten from so long yet they are not doing anything special
 
saeed5646 said:
Apart from 2 big names did you saw the list of applicants that applied for head coach position for india .?
Quality coaches prefer t20 league which provide them handsome money without any huge effort while doing coaching for international side is very demanding and difficult.Even the most richest board have only 2 quality applicant which tell the story where coaches intrest lies these days
If your team is pathetic than good coaches cannot do jack .Just look at the bd they have hired kirsten from so long yet they are not doing anything special
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I think, BCCI's case is a bit different - it was always known that they'll extend Shastri's contract. I was actually surprised that Moody & Hesson applied for the role. Also, you are little wrong in the assessment - BCCI called Hesson & Moody for the interview, are we sure those were only applicants? There could be thousands applicants, but they called for interview the top two foreign candidates, whom they decided to have a look.

I think, you are a little mis-informed about Kirsten, he is a CONSULTANT of BCB in the capacity of Director cricket - some of his scopes are inputs for appointing coaching staff, youth development program and grass-root level coaching programs with local/foreign coaches, as well as Domestic cricket tournaments. Considering the coach's profile of BCB in last few years and the age level teams' performance, I do think he has done quite a decent job. Obviously, domestic cricket in BD is doing far better in last few years in terms of schedule, players' development and payment structure.

Regarding the profile of coach, you are bang on - pathetic team will remain pathetic regardless of the profile of the coach and good teams will be good - it's the system that produces players, a coach can hardly add much - the biggest example is Team India.

Regarding BD, I actually am quite satisfied with the teams, progress in last 5-6 years under Hathura & Rhodes - may be from my minnow mentality, but both these coaches have seen teams W/L % increasing both in Test & ODI, has improved ranking as well. It's about improving from the base you are starting and I do think both of them actually has gained on that platform - that's probably what should be the KPI of a Coach. Otherwise, setting unrealistic target won't help either party.
 
Coz those interested are turned off by political interference. The money may not be that good either.
 
Who would want to work for a board that hires and fires coaches like one changes socks ?

Also you have to factor how many options are available to coaches now with the advent of lucrative T20 leagues.
 
I asked a current County coach who has coached an international team why he didn't apply for the Pakistan job.

His reply "because everyone who leaves the job never has a good word to say about PCB"
 
Markhor said:
Who would want to work for a board that hires and fires coaches like one changes socks ?

Also you have to factor how many options are available to coaches now with the advent of lucrative T20 leagues.
Click to expand...

Ultimately PAK (& every other countries dependent on foreign coach) has to build internal capacity. Coach is a bit over hyped position in cricket, because a coach can hardly add so much. Cricket being individual skilled based team game, more than combination and team strategy, it's important that individual skill is improved, for which you need better domestic system.

Within next 6 years, PCB has to plan that their National coaching set-up is completely domestic, may be a foreign physio can be hired but games' core skill coaches have to be raised domestically. That can only happen if PCB integrates coaching regime with the new domestic model. Appoint 30 (6 X 5 : Head Coach, Batting, 2 Bowling & Fielding coach) with 6 teams for long term and invest in their development via ECB/CA development programs during off season - say, a bunch of PAK domestic coaches sent to UK or AUS between June-AUG period for higher level coaching badges. Then there should be a 2nd set up of such (for second XI) and so on. Within 6 years time, some of the local coaches will be ready to take up National roles (not only in PAK) on merit.

For that, first thing that PCB needs is to invest on right kind of people/x-players, at right age and with adequate educational back-ground, and pick people who are passionate, proud about the job. I know, Lap-top coach is a pun term, but modern coaches have to operate coaching software, have to analyse performance data, have to understand modern fitness, diet, conditioning methods .... glaring cricket career isn't sufficient any more to be a top level Coach. Already in Soccer, we have seen top level coaches with Masters level education in Sports science, psychology, physiology or even in simple management - Cricket will also move into that route.

Instead of trying to prolong career, I think it's high time that players like Hafeez, Taufiq Umar, Imran Farhat, Salman Butt, Mo. Asif, Faisal Iqbal ..... focuses on coaching career through self development - there is a low hanging fruit waiting for them.
 
Saj said:
I asked a current County coach who has coached an international team why he didn't apply for the Pakistan job.

His reply "because everyone who leaves the job never has a good word to say about PCB"
Click to expand...
Perhaps PCB should have something in the contract which prohibits former coaches to say such things for a period till PCB has found a new coach.
 
Committee head by a cricketer, reduced the salary from what they paid to Mickey, hence no one interested, now the same cricket wants the job but demanding Mickey's salary.
 
I think we shouldn't be running after a coach just for the sake of being a foreigner.

Most of them dont understand how conditions of Asia are different than that of Australia and ENgland.

If there is one foreign coach who knows these conditions than that is Dave WHatmore...... ANd we need coachess who can now come up with strategies if the captain is clueless and not very vocal in discussion and team planning.

Look at India, they kept SHastri.
 
I thought they had some better option lined in hence they let Mickey go, but they don't. Mickey was far better option that what they PCB has now.
 
There's a monopoly on international coaching. When you've coached an international team before, far easier to get a job for another country. Lots of them even fail with countries, yet have no problem getting the next one. While many good domestic coaches are not given the chance to coach an international team, they can't break into that circle.

I would much rather give it to a local coach or a coach who is domestic who is looking for his big break. They will readily want it.

Experienced international coaches usually have better offers, security concerns etc. hence may not apply for Pakistan. Usually the experienced ones who get it, Pakistan isn't their top choice, it's what's left, and they may be doing it as the last few coaching stints didn't go well. This was probably the case with Mickey Arthur who would have preferred working with England, Australia etc. where his coaching is probably more suited. Which is also why you don't see guys like Gary Kirsten or even Hesson applying.

I was thrilled initially with Mickey's appointment, as there wasn't many coaches out there with so many international stints in the past. But really if the whole homework gate didn't happen and the bad stint with Australia, Mickey wouldn't have even applied to Pakistan in the first place.
 
Grant Flower had no issues with the PCB till he was fired.
 
Jalaluddin not called for interview and Muhammad Akram quit so Waqar is the only option for bowling coach.

Muhammad wasim has better chances to become batting coach

and only 1 option for the conditioning coach.


For the head coach there is a competition b/w Misbah and deno only.
 
Our former players are the big threat for our cricket development. People like Razzaq, Miandad, Sarfraz N, Tanvir, Qadir, Latif......don't know how to talk in front of media against current coach. They are right to do criticize but not in a threatening way or ill wish way.
 
It's because the PCB are unprofessional. Also the media will turn against you very quickly. Also there is a attitude issue with players at times. We all also sack coaches quickly, so why apply for something that may not be long term? Playing in the UAE and Pakistan unfortunately being deemed not safe by the majority doesn't help as well.

It's not an attractive job.
 
Because idiots start calling for change in coaching staff without due consideration of the constraints within which the coach operates.

MA departure has put pack Pakistan 2 years. T20 World Cup has also potentially been compromised.

Hope the administrators and fans are now feeling satisfied.
 
Hasan said:
Because idiots start calling for change in coaching staff without due consideration of the constraints within which the coach operates.

MA departure has put pack Pakistan 2 years. T20 World Cup has also potentially been compromised.

Hope the administrators and fans are now feeling satisfied.
Click to expand...

If we get Misbah it will be a big upgrade.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
If we get Misbah it will be a big upgrade.
Click to expand...

Point being that he will not be given a chance as people will start calling for his sacking before he has been given the time to make his mark. Remember it takes a good 3-5 years to build a set and competitive side.
 
The Steve Rixon episode will have done a lot of damage to PCB's reputation and in this industry, word spreads very quickly.
 
Saj said:
Not true. He probably did but because he was under contract, he had to keep quiet.
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But he chose to leach off the PCB for 5 long years. He could have left and resigned like Rixon if he was unhappy about things. At least Rixon made a difference while he was there unlike Grant Flower who will probably not get a high profile coaching gig again
 
To be honest you will have to increase the remuneration on offer. You want to attract quality, you have to pay top dollar
 
khurram39 said:
Jalaluddin not called for interview and Muhammad Akram quit so Waqar is the only option for bowling coach.

Muhammad wasim has better chances to become batting coach

and only 1 option for the conditioning coach.


For the head coach there is a competition b/w Misbah and deno only.
Click to expand...

Apparently Courtney Walsh is also a candidate and will be interviewed,
 
Too much focus on coach when the real problem lies with the captain.

Just appoint a better captain and any decent coach to work with him.

It will be the captain who will lift the team not coach.
 
A new system-structure is in place but that will bare fruits down the line, the unprofessional attitudes, inflated egos are some of the reasons for top coaches to overlook pakistan set up
 
Mueez said:
Perhaps PCB should have something in the contract which prohibits former coaches to say such things for a period till PCB has found a new coach.
Click to expand...

Or perhaps they could try being professional enough that every former employee doesn't feel the need to badmouth them
 
Coaching an Asian team (specially a team like Pakistan) is much harder than coaching a non-Asian team. Expectations are too high and there are always internal and external politics. Media also can be quite nasty.
 
Unlike most American Sports here you don't need a great coach in Cricket to succeed.

There aren't many renowned coaches in cricket anyways like there are in American Sports, you can't tell me any coaches in cricket are as renowned as guys like Popovich, Belichick, or even McVay.

Yes even in cricket you need a decent coach can't hire a guy like Dav Whatmore. But honestly a great coach at the international level isn't really needed. Plus I don't honestly think there is much of a difference between all lot of these guys.
 
Great Player. Nothing to suggest he's a good cricket coach. In fact, found him to be quite unprofessional and unreasonable.
 
Saj said:
The Steve Rixon episode will have done a lot of damage to PCB's reputation and in this industry, word spreads very quickly.
Click to expand...

Great point. But don't you think there are enough desperate coaches and slimy agents around to take up the pcb on the opportunity?
 
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