Why people of Afghanistan don't get along well with the people in Pakistan despite Pakistan's 40 plus years of hospitality to them?

[hks222]

We hate them too.

 

[LordJames]

We hate them too.

Who hates Muslim women, children and babies? So do the Israelees...

 

[straighttalk]

Because you supported Taliban and Islamist who destroyed the liberal peaceful way of life in Afghanistan.. when the Soviet invaded Afghanistan . It was in support of the incumbent government at their invitation to suppress the same evil Islamic forces

 

[IronShield]

Because you supported Taliban and Islamist who destroyed the liberal peaceful way of life in Afghanistan.. when the Soviet invaded Afghanistan . It was in support of the incumbent government at their invitation to suppress the same evil Islamic forces

So why is India supporting Taliban now?

 

[LordJames]

Dear Brothers @emranabbas & @IronShield

I could not sleep last night because I had detailed discussions with some people in Pakistan on the topic of Taliban and TTP. This deserves a separate thread as there are facts which have been brought to my notice which I did not know.

 

[LordJames]

Dear Brothers @emranabbas & @IronShield

I could not sleep last night because I had detailed discussions with some people in Pakistan on the topic of Taliban and TTP. This deserves a separate thread as there are facts which have been brought to my notice which I did not know.

Open and incendiary Admission from Afghan Taliban

Notice that Taliban are clearly supporting actions against the state of Pakistan and openly admitting it!​

Taliban Minister Statement:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1965403098740129809

Senior member of the Islamic Emirate's Ministry of Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, Sheikh Al-Hadith Maulana Muhammad Naseem Haqqani, has declared Pakistan's current system as infidel and deemed jihad against it as an individual obligation. He stated that Pakistani scholars, including Mufti Taqi Usmani, should speak the truth instead of fearing the ISI.


(Pakistani) Deobandi Rebuttal:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1967166449560006798

The statement by Maulana Muhammad Naseem Haqqani that the entire Pakistan is infidel and that jihad against it is obligatory duty is utterly dangerous and irresponsible — such declarations of takfir and calls for armed action are subject to strict conditions in general jurisprudence and credible juristic traditions. Pakistani scholars have clearly rejected extremism and rebellion in the past; declaring the entire country as infidel and making jihad an obligatory duty is unjustifiable on religious, ethical, and legal grounds.

We demand that:​

1. The relevant authorities of the Islamic Emirate take notice of this statement and immediately prevent this individual from making public statements;​
2. The vile accusations against affected scholars (such as Mufti Taqi Usmani) be withdrawn, and a public repentance/clarification be issued;​
3. Strict internal disciplinary action be taken against such provocative statements to ensure international peace and regional security are maintained.​

In summary: This claim is false, against religious and national interests — such accusations against Pakistani scholars are unacceptable, and we demand that the Islamic Emirate take immediate action to rein it in.​

Taliban Double Down:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1967449588421513679

Maulana Muhammad Naseem did not say that jihad is obligatory against the entire Pakistan; he mentioned the Pakistani government and ISI.

And he did not say that the entire Pakistan is infidel, but rather that Pakistan's system, which is democracy, is infidel.

Do not believe these devils who run accounts in the name of Deobandi scholars. He is only using the names of scholars on Twitter to incite Muslims against each other and has support from the Pakistani army.

 

[sweep_shot]

India bagged an explosive victory in the Asia Cup Final 2025, held on Sunday (September 28) at the Dubai International Stadium. The Asia Cup celebrations lit up the internet, with several videos capturing Indian fans rejoicing in the win, while others showed Pakistani fans venting their frustration after the loss.

In another viral clip following the final, Afghan students in Pakistan were seen chanting “Jai Hind” after India’s triumph. The video, shared on X by user @mufaddal_vohra, was captioned, “Afghanistan students in Pakistan chanting ‘Jai Hind’ after India’s Asia Cup win.”

The footage showed groups of Afghan students celebrating India’s victory, with their chants quickly making headlines. Indian fans widely welcomed the gesture as a touching display of solidarity.

The video has since been reshared across multiple social media platforms, including Instagram. While the gesture was celebrated by many, some users raised doubts about the clip’s authenticity and called on fact-checkers to verify it.

Afghan Students In Pakistan Chant 'Jai Hind' After India Wins Asia Cup 2025 | Viral Video

India’s explosive win in the Asia Cup Final 2025 sparked massive celebrations online. A viral clip showed Afghan students in Pakistan chanting ‘Jai Hind,’ a gesture many hailed as powerful solidarity, though some questioned its authenticity., Viral, Times Now

www.timesnownews.com

So, these Afghan students chanted for India while living in Pakistan. Why don't they go and live in India or Afghanistan?

I am in Canada. I would never chant against Canada while I am living here. That would be hypocritical.

 

[Rajdeep]

So, these Afghan students chanted for India while living in Pakistan. Why don't they go and live in India or Afghanistan?

I am in Canada. I would never chant against Canada while I am living here. That would be hypocritical.

Maybe @Major can explain but my hunch is it is more due to their hatred towards Pakistan and not love for India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Maybe @Major can explain but my hunch is it is more due to their hatred towards Pakistan and not love for India.

They don't differentiate between Pakistan and India. They see them all as essentially hindus.

 

[Rajdeep]

They don't differentiate between Pakistan and India. They see them all as essentially hindus.

What do you mean? Are you saying Afghanistanis sees both Pakistanis and Indians as Hindus?

If that is the case, why they hate Pakistan and love India?

 

[sweep_shot]

What do you mean? Are you saying Afghanistanis sees both Pakistanis and Indians as Hindus?

If that is the case, why they hate Pakistan and love India?

There is a Palestinian shawarma store near my house.

Store owner (a Palestinian guy) once told me he found Pakistanis and Bangladeshis all the same. LOL. To most non-desis, I guess all browns are the same.

Anyway, Afghans are also desis. However, some may say they are more central Asian-ish.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What do you mean? Are you saying Afghanistanis sees both Pakistanis and Indians as Hindus?

If that is the case, why they hate Pakistan and love India?

They don't love India, this is just Indians being delusional. Their aim is to bring the whole of the subcontinent under the light of Islam. They were always at war with India, just that part is now called Pakistan.

 

[Rajdeep]

They don't love India, this is just Indians being delusional. Their aim is to bring the whole of the subcontinent under the light of Islam. They were always at war with India, just that part is now called Pakistan.

Then why are they chanting Jai Hind?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Then why are they chanting Jai Hind?

Is this another lame attempt at joking your way out of a bind?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

They don't love India, this is just Indians being delusional. Their aim is to bring the whole of the subcontinent under the light of Islam. They were always at war with India, just that part is now called Pakistan.

You are giving them too much credit.

This modern lot of Afghans, they love India.

But it's likely the love will be lost when India does it's usual fence sitting regarding Trump and Bagram.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You are giving them too much credit.

This modern lot of Afghans, they love India.

But it's likely the love will be lost when India does it's usual fence sitting regarding Trump and Bagram.

They only love India because India are Pakistan's enemies. Afghans don't believe Pakistan is a legitimate country, for them it's just an extension of India. If Pakistan wasn't there, who were they at war with perpetually for hundreds of years before that? India.

Afghanistan rule by the most brutal, uncompromising form of Islam. There is no way they would have any truck with idol worshippers if the barrier of Pakistan was removed.

 

[Local.Dada]

They only love India because India are Pakistan's enemies. Afghans don't believe Pakistan is a legitimate country, for them it's just an extension of India. If Pakistan wasn't there, who were they at war with perpetually for hundreds of years before that? India.

Afghanistan rule by the most brutal, uncompromising form of Islam. There is no way they would have any truck with idol worshippers if the barrier of Pakistan was removed.

As usual you are focusing on their India-centric view than the reality. Firstly if you want to over-simplify based on religion I am assuming a non-believer/ idol worshipper is lower on the problem chain compared to the actual believer who is not implementing the rules of Islam properly. That’s probably how they view Pakistanis from what I have heard.

The more modern- elite type Afghanis hate Pakistan/ ISI/ Pak army because they blame them for spreading radicalism/ extremism in their country which gave way to Taliban and other extremist groups .

The Taliban hate Pakistan because they feel betrayed/backstabbed by Pak army who they think screwed them over by collaborating with USA.

Obviously more moving parts and depth can be added here but for your convenience at a very high level, that’s the major reason.

Afghanis cheering for India just to diss Pakistan is no big deal. We welcome it, no issues either ways. We have had healthy trade and diplomatic relations with every Afghan govt recently be it civilian or Taliban. That’s how diplomacy works, you don’t have to be best friends or lovey-dovey, just works on some decorum and mutual benefit.

Why Taliban/ Afghan hates you is obviously more personal.

So that’s what you would need to think through instead of some old homemaker from 1910’s argument like how can Taliban like “idol worshippers” “pagans” etc in 2025

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

As usual you are focusing on their India-centric view than the reality. Firstly if you want to over-simplify based on religion I am assuming a non-believer/ idol worshipper is lower on the problem chain compared to the actual believer who is not implementing the rules of Islam properly. That’s probably how they view Pakistanis from what I have heard.

The more modern- elite type Afghanis hate Pakistan/ ISI/ Pak army because they blame them for spreading radicalism/ extremism in their country which gave way to Taliban and other extremist groups .

The Taliban hate Pakistan because they feel betrayed/backstabbed by Pak army who they think screwed them over by collaborating with USA.

Obviously more moving parts and depth can be added here but for your convenience at a very high level, that’s the major reason.

Afghanis cheering for India just to diss Pakistan is no big deal. We welcome it, no issues either ways. We have had healthy trade and diplomatic relations with every Afghan govt recently be it civilian or Taliban. That’s how diplomacy works, you don’t have to be best friends or lovey-dovey, just works on some decorum and mutual benefit.

Why Taliban/ Afghan hates you is obviously more personal.

So that’s what you would need to think through instead of some old homemaker from 1910’s argument like how can Taliban like “idol worshippers” “pagans” etc in 2025

You spent all that time typing that out coming from the angle "The more modern- elite type Afghanis hate Pakistan/ ISI/ Pak army"

How many of those do you think live in a country ruled by the Taliban? Here's a clue for you.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There's your more modern Afghanistan for you

 

[sweep_shot]

There's your more modern Afghanistan for you

Local.Fruitcake took a dig at Islam indirectly.

Anyway, he defended Indian call center scammers just because they were Indians. I never take anything he writes seriously. Either he is a troll or he needs to see a mental doctor.

 

[LordJames]

How to solve the crisis with TTP and IEA?

1. Pakistani Pushtun 1: Ambassador Umer Khan Ali Sherzai
2. Pakistani Pushtun 2: Ambassador Syed Abrar Hussain
3. Pakistani Pushtun 3: Ambassador Asif Durrani
4. Pakistani Pushtun 4: Journalist Sami YusufZai (Expert on Al-Qaeda, TTP and IEA)
5. Pakistani Pushtun 5: Lieutenant General Tareq Khan (The one who broke the back of insurgency in KP)

@rickroll @IronShield @Boyka

If people don't want to listen to sensible solutions then Laga Reh...

No amount of anger, rage, abuse will stop the coffins but Laga Reh...

 

[IronShield]

How to solve the crisis with TTP and IEA?

1. Pakistani Pushtun 1: Ambassador Umer Khan Ali Sherzai
2. Pakistani Pushtun 2: Ambassador Syed Abrar Hussain
3. Pakistani Pushtun 3: Ambassador Asif Durrani
4. Pakistani Pushtun 4: Journalist Sami YusufZai (Expert on Al-Qaeda, TTP and IEA)
5. Pakistani Pushtun 5: Lieutenant General Tareq Khan (The one who broke the back of insurgency in KP)

@rickroll @IronShield @Boyka

If people don't want to listen to sensible solutions then Laga Reh...

No amount of anger, rage, abuse will stop the coffins but Laga Reh...

What you are proposing is the same rinse repeat kicking the can down the road approach. Pakistan now must get the balls and launch continuous large scale attacks in Afghanistan. They have to be systematically eliminated as a viable fighting force whilst Iran is preoccupied with itself. Then a large scale military action in KP and Balochistan to rid them all. Pakistan has been putting this off and every time shys away from doing what is necessary. This is the perfect opportunity to clean in-house whilst Iran is weakened.

1. Close all Madrassahs. Instead, open schools for religious studies, run by and supervised by the state.
2. Open dialogue with the Tajiks and help balkanise Afghanistan. This is perhaps the only way they can find peace amongst themselves if they are ruling over their own little piece of land.


Taliban and their offshoots and sympathisers have to be removed completely from Pakistan society. There is also the case of parachinar and the Iranians backed butchers of sunnis of Syria residing up there that also need to be brought to heel. They are one of the biggest genocidal maniacs that have evaded justice thus far. I am equal opportunity on destroying all these militants from all factions.

 

[LordJames]

What you are proposing is the same rinse repeat kicking the can down the road approach. Pakistan now must get the balls and launch continuous large scale attacks in Afghanistan. They have to be systematically eliminated as a viable fighting force whilst Iran is preoccupied with itself. Then a large scale military action in KP and Balochistan to rid them all. Pakistan has been putting this off and every time shys away from doing what is necessary. This is the perfect opportunity to clean in-house whilst Iran is weakened.

1. Close all Madrassahs. Instead, open schools for religious studies, run by and supervised by the state.
2. Open dialogue with the Tajiks and help balkanise Afghanistan. This is perhaps the only way they can find peace amongst themselves if they are ruling over their own little piece of land.


Taliban and their offshoots and sympathisers have to be removed completely from Pakistan society. There is also the case of parachinar and the Iranians backed butchers of sunnis of Syria residing up there that also need to be brought to heel. They are one of the biggest genocidal maniacs that have evaded justice thus far. I am equal opportunity on destroying all these militants from all factions.

In Summary, you want to crack down and restrict:

1. Sunni Deobandees
2. Sunni Barelwees
3. Sunni TLP
4. In fact, almost all Sunni Muslims of Pakistan except whom you approve

Then with an economy on life support, India threatening the Eastern border and daily causalities, you want to:

1. Enrage the Shia Muslims by opening a front with Iran (because you perceive Iran to be weak)
2. Then you want to open the Western front by meddling internally in Afghanistan

But you have no issues with the military policies (Zia, Musharraf) which led us here and you do not believe that what the military is doing is "rinse and repeat"!

1 Question:

Ignore all the unrest and tell how will you finance this and where will be deployments come from for your plan?

 

[IronShield]

In Summary, you want to crack down and restrict:

1. Sunni Deobandees
2. Sunni Barelwees
3. Sunni TLP
4. In fact, almost all Sunni Muslims of Pakistan except whom you approve

Then with an economy on life support, India threatening the Eastern border and daily causalities, you want to:

1. Enrage the Shia Muslims by opening a front with Iran (because you perceive Iran to be weak)
2. Then you want to open the Western front by meddling internally in Afghanistan

But you have no issues with the military policies (Zia, Musharraf) which led us here and you do not believe that what the military is doing is "rinse and repeat"!

1 Question:

Ignore all the unrest and tell how will you finance this and where will be deployments come from for your plan?

Yes. All that threaten the state of Pakistan. One at a time. In the order of:

1.Talibans
2. Shia Parachinaris

Ironically both of those are located in KP close to each other. So two birds with one deployment.

The rest are meek and will fall in line.

I never said open a front with Iran. These are all internal matters of the Pakistani state.

 

[LordJames]

Yes. All that threaten the state of Pakistan. One at a time. In the order of:

1.Talibans
2. Shia Parachinaris

Ironically both of those are located in KP close to each other. So two birds with one deployment.

The rest are meek and will fall in line.

I never said open a front with Iran. These are all internal matters of the Pakistani state.

​

1. The source and seat of "Mamati Deobandi", Panjperi and Ahlul-Hadeeth is South Punjab.​
2. The source and seat of "Hayati Deobandi" is Karachi and then KP​
3. TTP's source and seat of funding, ideological support and networking is in Karachi, their operational base is KP and TTP cannot be eliminated without tacking Karachi.​
4. The operational base for BLA is Balochistan​
5. The stronghold of Ismaili Shia is GB​

Ignore the labels because that is not my intention to explain to everyone the flavors of sectarianism in Pakistan.

Again, ignore the civil unrest and backlash when you bring the hammer down but just tell me how will you fund the "hammer" and which units will you move from where to where while maintaining a credible and effective deterrence on the Eastern border while opening a new front on the Western border?

Then second question to this question of yours, which Muslim country do you have in mind which does the following?

Close all Madrassahs. Instead, open schools for religious studies, run by and supervised by the state.​

Thanks

 

[Boyka]

What you are proposing is the same rinse repeat kicking the can down the road approach. Pakistan now must get the balls and launch continuous large scale attacks in Afghanistan. They have to be systematically eliminated as a viable fighting force whilst Iran is preoccupied with itself. Then a large scale military action in KP and Balochistan to rid them all. Pakistan has been putting this off and every time shys away from doing what is necessary. This is the perfect opportunity to clean in-house whilst Iran is weakened.

1. Close all Madrassahs. Instead, open schools for religious studies, run by and supervised by the state.
2. Open dialogue with the Tajiks and help balkanise Afghanistan. This is perhaps the only way they can find peace amongst themselves if they are ruling over their own little piece of land.


Taliban and their offshoots and sympathisers have to be removed completely from Pakistan society. There is also the case of parachinar and the Iranians backed butchers of sunnis of Syria residing up there that also need to be brought to heel. They are one of the biggest genocidal maniacs that have evaded justice thus far. I am equal opportunity on destroying all these militants from all factions.

I have to say although Islam is quite plural in the sense that there are many sects in Pakistan, it’s so fragmented and it exists as a force outside the state. No name clerics have thousands of followers and can mobilise so quickly that the political parties are beholden to them. It’s quite a toxic environment.

Military action might have a time and a place now but not the long term.

 

[Boyka]

​

1. The source and seat of "Mamati Deobandi", Panjperi and Ahlul-Hadeeth is South Punjab.​
2. The source and seat of "Hayati Deobandi" is Karachi and then KP​
3. TTP's source and seat of funding, ideological support and networking is in Karachi, their operational base is KP and TTP cannot be eliminated without tacking Karachi.​
4. The operational base for BLA is Balochistan​
5. The stronghold of Ismaili Shia is GB​

Ignore the labels because that is not my intention to explain to everyone the flavors of sectarianism in Pakistan.

Again, ignore the civil unrest and backlash when you bring the hammer down but just tell me how will you fund the "hammer" and which units will you move from where to where while maintaining a credible and effective deterrence on the Eastern border while opening a new front on the Western border?

Then second question to this question of yours, which Muslim country do you have in mind which does the following?

Close all Madrassahs. Instead, open schools for religious studies, run by and supervised by the state.​

Thanks

Turkey?

 

[LordJames]

Turkey?

I live in Turkiye partially so will address that example later, let's see what @IronShield has in mind. The Turkish model will not and cannot work in Pakistan and will explain why.

 

[IronShield]

I live in Turkiye partially so will address that example later, let's see what @IronShield has in mind. The Turkish model will not and cannot work in Pakistan and will explain why.

I will pick this up tomorrow. Its almost 9.30 in UK and I have been engaging far longer than I intended on a Friday night.

 

[LordJames]

What you are proposing is the same rinse repeat kicking the can down the road approach. Pakistan now must get the balls and launch continuous large scale attacks in Afghanistan. They have to be systematically eliminated as a viable fighting force whilst Iran is preoccupied with itself. Then a large scale military action in KP and Balochistan to rid them all. Pakistan has been putting this off and every time shys away from doing what is necessary. This is the perfect opportunity to clean in-house whilst Iran is weakened.

1. Close all Madrassahs. Instead, open schools for religious studies, run by and supervised by the state.
2. Open dialogue with the Tajiks and help balkanise Afghanistan. This is perhaps the only way they can find peace amongst themselves if they are ruling over their own little piece of land.


Taliban and their offshoots and sympathisers have to be removed completely from Pakistan society. There is also the case of parachinar and the Iranians backed butchers of sunnis of Syria residing up there that also need to be brought to heel. They are one of the biggest genocidal maniacs that have evaded justice thus far. I am equal opportunity on destroying all these militants from all factions.

Turkey?​

@IronShield @Suleiman @sweep_shot @Justcrazy

I wrote a long essay comparing and contrasting the systems and then deleted it because I know people don't read

Here is just a summary:​

1. The state of Pakistan doesn't even build Mosque (there are only 5-10) Mosques in the entire country which were officially allocated by the Government. They do not have the will let alone the finances to be able to do that. Turkish Diyanet allocated land and builds it and pays the Imam. Almost all Mosques in Pakistan are voluntarily funded and run but in many cases the Imams are paid (meager salary). Nobody gets radicalized at a Mosque (in Pakistan or the West so this isn't an issue) any ways...​
2. There are (almost) equivalent number of children which are taught by the Madrasa system (in Pakistan) compared to those who are taught by the state. This is a world recognized fact and state of Pakistan simply cannot absorb all these kids into state system, I have discussed this somewhere with @Major and Dr @Mamoon about the parallel education systems of Pakistan. But to be fair, the Darul-uloom system in Pakistan operates better then any NGO (system) in the world and taking these kids and educating them which the state neglects! Turkey has state sanctioned education while Pakistan does not. Imran Khan has been comparing about this parallel education system for decades ​
3. An average Mosque goer in Pakistan is 10 times more Islamically aware than a Turk, so you cannot have a system which produces Imams which are inferior in knowledge to those who pray behind them!​
4. A typical Pakistani Darul-uloom graduate is 10 times more Academically read so you cannot all of a sudden reverse the system and start teaching basic books to someone who studies a lot more.​

The state of Pakistan is too incompetent and too broke to do anything about this and the only reason they want to do something is because of Army casualties (and previously due to War-on-Terror).

Let me now reverse your mind and tell you the real issue and lets just take Deobandi and Barelwee example...

@shamaan @KingKhanWC

In a Pakistani Darul-uloom, two typical students study (near identical) text books, they practise (Hanafi Madhab) their belief system is (Maturidi) from their books to their lives is identical then how come:​

1. One called himself "Deobandi"​
2. Other calls himself a "Barelwee"​

And are willing to argue for days for issues like Mawlid? How can someone study texts for years and not be able to come to a conclusion on a basic issue like this? OR be able to actually understand each other's position?

Sectarianism and intolerance is indeed an issue pervasive in Pakistani society and you need a lot smarter people than me like @The Bald Eagle or @BouncerGuy to tell you how to stay in the middle lane in Pakistan! But majority of Pakistanees are hot-deaded and not willing to blow themselves or anyone else up!

Lets now look at the issue with TTP:

1. Noor Wali Mehsud (XYZ of similar organisations) are Foreign funded
2. The foot soldiers (TTP, BLA etc) are economically backwards, socially left behind youngsters of Pakistani society

Pakistan produces hunderds of thousands of Madrasah graduates and there isn't a major problem with Madrasah graduates (worldwide) with radicalism anywhere.

Al-Qaeda and ISIS are not Madrasa graduates but university graduates from top universities, look it up!

 

[Major]

@IronShield @Suleiman @sweep_shot @Justcrazy

I wrote a long essay comparing and contrasting the systems and then deleted it because I know people don't read

Here is just a summary:​

1. The state of Pakistan doesn't even build Mosque (there are only 5-10) Mosques in the entire country which were officially allocated by the Government. They do not have the will let alone the finances to be able to do that. Turkish Diyanet allocated land and builds it and pays the Imam. Almost all Mosques in Pakistan are voluntarily funded and run but in many cases the Imams are paid (meager salary). Nobody gets radicalized at a Mosque (in Pakistan or the West so this isn't an issue) any ways...​
2. There are (almost) equivalent number of children which are taught by the Madrasa system (in Pakistan) compared to those who are taught by the state. This is a world recognized fact and state of Pakistan simply cannot absorb all these kids into state system, I have discussed this somewhere with @Major and Dr @Mamoon about the parallel education systems of Pakistan. But to be fair, the Darul-uloom system in Pakistan operates better then any NGO (system) in the world and taking these kids and educating them which the state neglects! Turkey has state sanctioned education while Pakistan does not. Imran Khan has been comparing about this parallel education system for decades ​
3. An average Mosque goer in Pakistan is 10 times more Islamically aware than a Turk, so you cannot have a system which produces Imams which are inferior in knowledge to those who pray behind them!​
4. A typical Pakistani Darul-uloom graduate is 10 times more Academically read so you cannot all of a sudden reverse the system and start teaching basic books to someone who studies a lot more.​

The state of Pakistan is too incompetent and too broke to do anything about this and the only reason they want to do something is because of Army casualties (and previously due to War-on-Terror).

Let me now reverse your mind and tell you the real issue and lets just take Deobandi and Barelwee example...

@shamaan @KingKhanWC

In a Pakistani Darul-uloom, two typical students study (near identical) text books, they practise (Hanafi Madhab) their belief system is (Maturidi) from their books to their lives is identical then how come:​

1. One called himself "Deobandi"​
2. Other calls himself a "Barelwee"​

And are willing to argue for days for issues like Mawlid? How can someone study texts for years and not be able to come to a conclusion on a basic issue like this? OR be able to actually understand each other's position?

Sectarianism and intolerance is indeed an issue pervasive in Pakistani society and you need a lot smarter people than me like @The Bald Eagle or @BouncerGuy to tell you how to stay in the middle lane in Pakistan! But majority of Pakistanees are hot-deaded and not willing to blow themselves or anyone else up!

Lets now look at the issue with TTP:

1. Noor Wali Mehsud (XYZ of similar organisations) are Foreign funded
2. The foot soldiers (TTP, BLA etc) are economically backwards, socially left behind youngsters of Pakistani society

Pakistan produces hunderds of thousands of Madrasah graduates and there isn't a major problem with Madrasah graduates (worldwide) with radicalism anywhere.

Al-Qaeda and ISIS are not Madrasa graduates but university graduates from top universities, look it up!

Have you been to a madrassah in Pakistan?

 

[Major]

What you are proposing is the same rinse repeat kicking the can down the road approach. Pakistan now must get the balls and launch continuous large scale attacks in Afghanistan. They have to be systematically eliminated as a viable fighting force whilst Iran is preoccupied with itself. Then a large scale military action in KP and Balochistan to rid them all. Pakistan has been putting this off and every time shys away from doing what is necessary. This is the perfect opportunity to clean in-house whilst Iran is weakened.

1. Close all Madrassahs. Instead, open schools for religious studies, run by and supervised by the state.
2. Open dialogue with the Tajiks and help balkanise Afghanistan. This is perhaps the only way they can find peace amongst themselves if they are ruling over their own little piece of land.


Taliban and their offshoots and sympathisers have to be removed completely from Pakistan society. There is also the case of parachinar and the Iranians backed butchers of sunnis of Syria residing up there that also need to be brought to heel. They are one of the biggest genocidal maniacs that have evaded justice thus far. I am equal opportunity on destroying all these militants from all factions.

I agree with the Madarassah part.

Alot of the terrorism that spread from Pakistan has come from Madrassahs, Saudi school of thought was one of the major reasons that was spreading hate in the society.

I remember while growing up in a Mohallah of Rawalpindi, I used to have a Qari Sahab who would teach me the Quran. He was Wahabi, the saudi school of thought, and he would everyday give us lecture how Jihad is a good thing and we should join him on the mission and fight for the freedom of Kashmir and all that crap.

Things were soo bad back in 2006, Wahabis used to get funding from Saudi Arabia directly and they had a madrassah opened up in eevery neighborhood of Punjab. Women were invited to take part in the dars (religious discussion) and alot of ridiculous stuff was preached. They spread hate agaisnt Shias, how its bad to befriend non muslims, how a person whose name is one of the name of God should be called by Abdul xyz. By not using the word Abdul that was also a sin. I knew mothers who would go to such places going crazy when I would call their son by his direct name and not use Abdul.

The madrassah system and the Wahabi dars were a ridiculous thing in the society.

Ever since the National Action Plan was implemented, things have massively improved, but the madrassahs need to be shut down.

 

[LordJames]

Have you been to a madrassah in Pakistan?

No, I have not.

I agree with the Madarassah part.

Alot of the terrorism that spread from Pakistan has come from Madrassahs, Saudi school of thought was one of the major reasons that was spreading hate in the society.

I remember while growing up in a Mohallah of Rawalpindi, I used to have a Qari Sahab who would teach me the Quran. He was Wahabi, the saudi school of thought, and he would everyday give us lecture how Jihad is a good thing and we should join him on the mission and fight for the freedom of Kashmir and all that crap.

Things were soo bad back in 2006, Wahabis used to get funding from Saudi Arabia directly and they had a madrassah opened up in eevery neighborhood of Punjab. Women were invited to take part in the dars (religious discussion) and alot of ridiculous stuff was preached. They spread hate agaisnt Shias, how its bad to befriend non muslims, how a person whose name is one of the name of God should be called by Abdul xyz. By not using the word Abdul that was also a sin. I knew mothers who would go to such places going crazy when I would call their son by his direct name and not use Abdul.

The madrassah system and the Wahabi dars were a ridiculous thing in the society.

Ever since the National Action Plan was implemented, things have massively improved, but the madrassahs need to be shut down.

President Ziaul Haq involved Pakistan into Jihad and made it part of state policy and it was encouraged and enforced. Did the Madrasah issue VISAS for all and sundry to come to Pakistan and preach?

Did Madrasahs reach out to Ronald Reagan to have a meeting?

1. Madrasahs have been running since the beginning of Islam
2. If a problem occurred is it due to Madrasah or another issue and should the Madrsahs be closed or changed?

Based on the following two should we shutdown Karachi university?

 

[Major]

@LordJames

Thank you for admitting you havent been to a madrassah.

So we know, you dont know what you are talking about on this topic

 

[Major]

No, I have not.


President Ziaul Haq involved Pakistan into Jihad and made it part of state policy and it was encouraged and enforced. Did the Madrasah issue VISAS for all and sundry to come to Pakistan and preach?

Did Madrasahs reach out to Ronald Reagan to have a meeting?

1. Madrasahs have been running since the beginning of Islam
2. If a problem occurred is it due to Madrasah or another issue and should the Madrsahs be closed or changed?

Based on the following two should we shutdown Karachi university?

Did Karachi Univeristy preach terrorism under the name of Jihad?

Do Madrassah preach terrorism under the name of Jihad?

I know the answer, but since you never been to a Madrassah you wouldnt know

 

[LordJames]

Did Karachi Univeristy preach terrorism under the name of Jihad?

Do Madrassah preach terrorism under the name of Jihad?

I know the answer, but since you never been to a Madrassah you wouldnt know

Question: Where did you get the idea that I have never been to Madrasah?

JIHAD is in the Qur'aan so don't you think that Qur'aan should be banned too?

وَجَـٰهِدُواْ فِى ٱللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ​

How about banning Saheeh Bukhari, too because there is a whole chapter on it?

كتاب الجهاد والسير​

Btw, why don't you give back (Azad) Kashmir and part of GB because it was won due to Jihad? Why is it ok for for you to keep (Azad) Kashmir and GB when it was these people who got it for you???

You have already stated that "Your Culture is superior to Islam" so you don't get to speak about Islam at all...

And you also have a habit of not providing evidence of anything...

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Afghans are under no obligation to be more friendly with Pakistan than India...BUT

If they ally with idolators over Muslims then they should really do so under a secular govt. This sort of sneakery is going to bring down the Taliban and their guise of representatives of Islam. It could be the beginning of the end for the Taliban govt in my opinion. They have comromised their own ideology.

 

[RexRex]

If they ally with idolators over Muslims then they should really do so under a secular govt. This sort of sneakery is going to bring down the Taliban and their guise of representatives of Islam. It could be the beginning of the end for the Taliban govt in my opinion. They have comromised their own ideology.

This is a strange post.

You come off as someone who is sympathetic to Taliban ideology and is upset that they are compromising their reputation as true Islamic ideologues by allying themselves with idolaters.

Very revealing.

 

[LordJames]

Afghans are under no obligation to be more friendly with Pakistan than India...BUT

If they ally with idolators over Muslims then they should really do so under a secular govt. This sort of sneakery is going to bring down the Taliban and their guise of representatives of Islam. It could be the beginning of the end for the Taliban govt in my opinion. They have comromised their own ideology.

I believe there is some truth to what Habib Akram is saying:

The summary of his vlog is this:

1. Taliban were and remain deeply unpopular in Afghanistan but criticism is curtailed
2. Afghan people view Pakistan to be behind Taliban and focus their anger and frustration towards Pakistan instead of Taliban (because they can't).
3. Taliban (when they came to power the second time) gave credence to this "Anti-Pakistan" stance to appear to be on the Public's side
4. Pakistan exacerbated the problem by throwing out Afghans and alienating the very Afghans who had support for Pakistan
5. Pakistani state then equated Afghanistan with India and the imaginary coupling has now actually happened.
6. The policies of Pakistani state in stark opposition to Imran Khan have made the situation worse and we are almost at the point of no return!

My opinion is simple, release Imran Khan and let me handle this.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is a strange post.

You come off as someone who is sympathetic to Taliban ideology and is upset that they are compromising their reputation as true Islamic ideologues by allying themselves with idolaters.

Very revealing.

If I was sympathetic to Taliban ideology then I would agree with them, so this is a senseless take. Not that my opinion is what matters in any case, they are the ones who profess an Islamic ideology so that is how they should be judged.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I believe there is some truth to what Habib Akram is saying:

The summary of his vlog is this:

1. Taliban were and remain deeply unpopular in Afghanistan but criticism is curtailed
2. Afghan people view Pakistan to be behind Taliban and focus their anger and frustration towards Pakistan instead of Taliban (because they can't).
3. Taliban (when they came to power the second time) gave credence to this "Anti-Pakistan" stance to appear to be on the Public's side
4. Pakistan exacerbated the problem by throwing out Afghans and alienating the very Afghans who had support for Pakistan
5. Pakistani state then equated Afghanistan with India and the imaginary coupling has now actually happened.
6. The policies of Pakistani state in stark opposition to Imran Khan have made the situation worse and we are almost at the point of no return!

My opinion is simple, release Imran Khan and let me handle this.

Again, it is Taliban who claim to be moral upholders of Islamic values, so that is how they should be judged. I haven't watched the video, but going off your summary, it doesn't hold much water.

 

[RexRex]

If I was sympathetic to Taliban ideology then I would agree with them, so this is a senseless take. Not that my opinion is what matters in any case, they are the ones who profess an Islamic ideology so that is how they should be judged.

You thought Taliban was sullying the the brand name of Islamic ideology by allying with idolaters. As if everything else they were doing was not a problem. Amazing

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You thought Taliban was sullying the the brand name of Islamic ideology by allying with idolaters. As if everything else they were doing was not a problem. Amazing

This is just dumb reasoning and a comprehension failure on your part. What I think is immaterial, the Taliban are being judged according to their own self avowed principles. You seem to think every post has to be about my views personally for some reason. We are not really here to discuss posters, we are usually looking at the wider perspective.

 

[Patriot]

Maybe because Pakistan treats Afghanistan like its own backyard. Also, maybe do something better for the Afghan refugees instead of keeping them in refugee camps and now deporting them. If you treat your guests nicely, maybe they will like you better.

 

[LordJames]

1949: PAF Foreign Bombing, Darul-uloom Deoband & Betrayl of Afghans

@IronShield @The Bald Eagle @BouncerGuy @DeadlyVenom @HalBass9 @sweep_shot @KingKhanWC @Suleiman @aboveandbeyond @ElRaja @Bewal Express @Major @shamaan

King Amaullah Khan ruled Afghanistan as a Amir (of Afghanistan) between 28 February 1919 – 9 June 1926 and then as King. The reason he gained legitimacy in Afghanistan was because Darul-uloom Deoband backed the establishment of an "Islamic state" and encouraged migration of Indian Muslims to Afghanistan and a this was a parallel movement called "Hijrat Tehreek"

Amaullah Khan was so indebted to Darul-uloom Deoband that when Maulana Mahmud Hasan Deobandi died on 30 November 1920, a funeral in absentia (Ghaibana Namaz-e-Janzah) was performed in Kabul he publicly vowed to complete the mission of "Khailafat of Islamic state".

Darul-uloom sent the handpicked Lieutenant of Maulana Mahmud Hasan Deobandi, a Sikh Revert to Islam by the name of Ubaidullah Sindhi.

Within a few years, Amanullah did a deal with the "British" to keep his borders and betrays Darul-uloom Deoband and exiles Ubaidullah Sindhi under orders from British Government.

The Afghans exiled Ubaidullah Sindhi and many "Punjabi" Scholars and thus begins the Afghan resentment towards Punjabi people stoked by the King which exists to this day.

Darul-ul-uloom Deoband feels betrayed and backstabbed by Amanullah Khan and try to make Afghans rise against the "Despot King" in late 1920s.

The Afghans are led by his half-brother "Anwar Jan" backed by Darul-ul-uloom Deoband and other Ulama, a parallel campaign also started to establish the state of "Pushtunistan" against Amanullah Khan. The two (or more) groups remain uneasy friends against a common enemy who had betrayed Muslims of India.

Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi) is the Pushtun nationlist who is leading the movement of "Pushtunistan".

Time passes and comes 1947. Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi) and Bacha Khan incite Psuhtuns to not join Pakistan. A segment of Scholars of Deoband (Pushtun and non-Pushtun) relentlessly campaign for NWFP to Join Pakistan and they are also assisted by half-brother "Anwar Jan".

NWFP Joins Pakistan. Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi) incites tribals to rise against the state of Pakistan and Bacha Khan continues to meddle in the state of Pakistan while the state of Pakistan assists "Anwar Jan" to claim the throne of Afghanistan and invites tribals to join his "Jihad" instead of "Jihad" of Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi).

1947-1949: The tribals alinged with Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi) regularly attacked British targets but he now he tells them to start attacking Pakistan Scouts, majority of them refuse because Pakistani scouts are Muslims and law down their arms but some do not and continue to attack targets inside Pakistan.

Pakistan Military continues to fund and support half-brother "Anwar Jan" to incite rebellaion inside Afghanistan.

Afghans trap those loyal to half-brother "Anwar Jan" inside Afghanistan with tribals of Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi) and Pakistan Airforce undertakes its first aerial mission and drops bombs on Mughalgai and here we have two versions:

1. State of Pakistan says that it was pursuing Terrorists associated with Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi)
2. State of Afghanistan says that PAF protected surrounded rebels of half-brother "Anwar Jan" and interferred in the affairs of Pakistan

Pakistan in a clever diplomatic move admits its mistake that it crossed the border and pays compensation to Afghanistan but in returns the path of tribals of Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi) to melt back into Afghanistan is blocked. The movement dies within a few years!

Russians, Indians and Afghans never forget this and revive thiswave of Terrorism against Pakistan in the 1970s until we have Soviet Jihad and again the movement dies its natural death.

All enemies of Pakistan know about the intertwinned history of Pushtuns and will always exploit it against Pakistan whenever they can...

An expert on this history of Afghanistan & Amanullah Khan is Dr Sufyan of Swabi university who often touches on this topic

Quran Daily Dose

To connect the youth with Quran Shareef through short simple Videos.

www.youtube.com

Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) opposed the Khilafat movement and later the "Hijrat Tehreek", he was opposed, had death threats but sticks to his guns in opposition (briefly discussed on Siasat.pk). In fact Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) breaks away from Darul-uloom Deoband and wanted a separate homeland for Muslims within India and he agrees with Iqbal although they hardly meet to cement the idea, the two come up with the same solution "two-nation theory" separatly and write about it separatly without even meeting! The students of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) break away from Darul-uloom and Join Muhammad Ali Jinnah and continue to this day (Mufti Rafi Usmani and Mufti Taqi Usmani are descendants). Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) articulates the idea of "Pakistan" before Allamah Iqbal to his students but passes away.

Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) witnessed the betryal of Afghans and the harsh reality of Hijrat to Afghanistan and he was bitter, sad and angry as evident from his writings and particularly in his Malfoozat.

 

[IronShield]

1949: PAF Foreign Bombing, Darul-uloom Deoband & Betrayl of Afghans

@IronShield @The Bald Eagle @BouncerGuy @DeadlyVenom @HalBass9 @sweep_shot @KingKhanWC @Suleiman @aboveandbeyond @ElRaja @Bewal Express @Major @shamaan

King Amaullah Khan ruled Afghanistan as a Amir (of Afghanistan) between 28 February 1919 – 9 June 1926 and then as King. The reason he gained legitimacy in Afghanistan was because Darul-uloom Deoband backed the establishment of an "Islamic state" and encouraged migration of Indian Muslims to Afghanistan and a this was a parallel movement called "Hijrat Tehreek"

Amaullah Khan was so indebted to Darul-uloom Deoband that when Maulana Mahmud Hasan Deobandi died on 30 November 1920, a funeral in absentia (Ghaibana Namaz-e-Janzah) was performed in Kabul he publicly vowed to complete the mission of "Khailafat of Islamic state".

Darul-uloom sent the handpicked Lieutenant of Maulana Mahmud Hasan Deobandi, a Sikh Revert to Islam by the name of Ubaidullah Sindhi.

Within a few years, Amanullah did a deal with the "British" to keep his borders and betrays Darul-uloom Deoband and exiles Ubaidullah Sindhi under orders from British Government.

The Afghans exiled Ubaidullah Sindhi and many "Punjabi" Scholars and thus begins the Afghan resentment towards Punjabi people stoked by the King which exists to this day.

Darul-ul-uloom Deoband feels betrayed and backstabbed by Amanullah Khan and try to make Afghans rise against the "Despot King" in late 1920s.

The Afghans are led by his half-brother "Anwar Jan" backed by Darul-ul-uloom Deoband and other Ulama, a parallel campaign also started to establish the state of "Pushtunistan" against Amanullah Khan. The two (or more) groups remain uneasy friends against a common enemy who had betrayed Muslims of India.

Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi) is the Pushtun nationlist who is leading the movement of "Pushtunistan".

Time passes and comes 1947. Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi) and Bacha Khan incite Psuhtuns to not join Pakistan. A segment of Scholars of Deoband (Pushtun and non-Pushtun) relentlessly campaign for NWFP to Join Pakistan and they are also assisted by half-brother "Anwar Jan".

NWFP Joins Pakistan. Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi) incites tribals to rise against the state of Pakistan and Bacha Khan continues to meddle in the state of Pakistan while the state of Pakistan assists "Anwar Jan" to claim the throne of Afghanistan and invites tribals to join his "Jihad" instead of "Jihad" of Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi).

1947-1949: The tribals alinged with Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi) regularly attacked British targets but he now he tells them to start attacking Pakistan Scouts, majority of them refuse because Pakistani scouts are Muslims and law down their arms but some do not and continue to attack targets inside Pakistan.

Pakistan Military continues to fund and support half-brother "Anwar Jan" to incite rebellaion inside Afghanistan.

Afghans trap those loyal to half-brother "Anwar Jan" inside Afghanistan with tribals of Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi) and Pakistan Airforce undertakes its first aerial mission and drops bombs on Mughalgai and here we have two versions:

1. State of Pakistan says that it was pursuing Terrorists associated with Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi)
2. State of Afghanistan says that PAF protected surrounded rebels of half-brother "Anwar Jan" and interferred in the affairs of Pakistan

Pakistan in a clever diplomatic move admits its mistake that it crossed the border and pays compensation to Afghanistan but in returns the path of tribals of Mirza Ali Khan Wazir (Faqir of Ipi) to melt back into Afghanistan is blocked. The movement dies within a few years!

Russians, Indians and Afghans never forget this and revive thiswave of Terrorism against Pakistan in the 1970s until we have Soviet Jihad and again the movement dies its natural death.

All enemies of Pakistan know about the intertwinned history of Pushtuns and will always exploit it against Pakistan whenever they can...

An expert on this history of Afghanistan & Amanullah Khan is Dr Sufyan of Swabi university who often touches on this topic

Quran Daily Dose

To connect the youth with Quran Shareef through short simple Videos.

www.youtube.com

Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) opposed the Khilafat movement and later the "Hijrat Tehreek", he was opposed, had death threats but sticks to his guns in opposition (briefly discussed on Siasat.pk). In fact Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) breaks away from Darul-uloom Deoband and wanted a separate homeland for Muslims within India and he agrees with Iqbal although they hardly meet to cement the idea, the two come up with the same solution "two-nation theory" separatly and write about it separatly without even meeting! The students of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) break away from Darul-uloom and Join Muhammad Ali Jinnah and continue to this day (Mufti Rafi Usmani and Mufti Taqi Usmani are descendants). Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) articulates the idea of "Pakistan" before Allamah Iqbal to his students but passes away.

Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) witnessed the betryal of Afghans and the harsh reality of Hijrat to Afghanistan and he was bitter, sad and angry as evident from his writings and particularly in his Malfoozat.

Therefore moral of the story is...

Latoon ke Bhoot Batoon se nahi mantay....

Pakistan was a nascent country which it is not so now. Learn from history and impose by force. Simple. Peace through strength.

No Deoband, Barelwis or Shia groups should ever have the capacity to interfere in the workings of the state. You can believe what you want to in your personal capacity, as long as it does not preach hate or over rules the laws of the state.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Maybe because Pakistan treats Afghanistan like its own backyard. Also, maybe do something better for the Afghan refugees instead of keeping them in refugee camps and now deporting them. If you treat your guests nicely, maybe they will like you better.

What would be your suggestion? Give them citizenship?

 

[Muhammad Saad]

It’s all because they are created by god this way, they are prideful people and pak really helped them in their bad times but unfortunately we didn’t provide them the respect they wanted and treated them as 2nd class citizens which is pretty much fine for any group of people who need help but since they are prideful people they took this insult to their core and start taking Pakistan as an enemy.

Never hurt an ego of Aghans , Iran or Arab people they will going to take revenge with you and will forget any favors you have done upon them in the past.

The best way to get benefits from such type of people is to provide them favors and help them in their need and in the end provide them respect, literally they will going to die for you without even thinking twice. This is a human psychology of such people.

 

[Patriot]

What would be your suggestion? Give them citizenship?

Wouldn’t that be the right thing to do? Why do we disagree with the right wing in the U.K. when they say they want to deport immigrants but have a different view for Pakistan? The issue is that unlike western countries Pakistan can’t support it so it all comes back to how Pakistan is a poorly managed country.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Wouldn’t that be the right thing to do? Why do we disagree with the right wing in the U.K. when they say they want to deport immigrants but have a different view for Pakistan? The issue is that unlike western countries Pakistan can’t support it so it all comes back to how Pakistan is a poorly managed country.

You are making a false correlation though when you compare deporting immigrants to refugees. Even then there is a further distinction between legal and illegal immigrants. This is just confusing your point, which otherwise I agree with.

Forget comparisons with the UK, Pakistan/Afghanistan is more like England/Scotland. As such I do think that it would probably be easier just to give citizenship to Afghan refugees given that the border has always traditionally been porous anyway. Not sure how it would work practically, but it would at least ease the border tensions.

 

[Patriot]

You are making a false correlation though when you compare deporting immigrants to refugees. Even then there is a further distinction between legal and illegal immigrants. This is just confusing your point, which otherwise I agree with.

Forget comparisons with the UK, Pakistan/Afghanistan is more like England/Scotland. As such I do think that it would probably be easier just to give citizenship to Afghan refugees given that the border has always traditionally been porous anyway. Not sure how it would work practically, but it would at least ease the border tensions.

You are right about the difference between refugees and legal/illegal migrants.

This might be a controversial opinion but in an ideal world, I would like for Pakistan and Afghanistan to be a single country under a single democratically elected government (not the Taliban) with all people having citizenship and equal rights. It would resolve a lot of issues.

 

[LordJames]

You are making a false correlation though when you compare deporting immigrants to refugees. Even then there is a further distinction between legal and illegal immigrants. This is just confusing your point, which otherwise I agree with.

Forget comparisons with the UK, Pakistan/Afghanistan is more like England/Scotland. As such I do think that it would probably be easier just to give citizenship to Afghan refugees given that the border has always traditionally been porous anyway. Not sure how it would work practically, but it would at least ease the border tensions.

I was alive when USSR entered Afghanistan in 1979, Pakistan accepted millions of refugees legally and accepted millions in Aid to provide for them. Then Pakistan willfully allowed them to settle throughout the country and many of them settled and married Pakistani citizens and had children but there were not given any identification or papers either as refugees or illegals or some sort of temporary residence.​

In between, in 1989 Pakistan celebrated when USSR was ejected from Afghanistan and did nothing to eject or remove them.

In 1992, Pakistan coordinated with Sibghatullah Mojaddedi and helped create a transitional Government but still nothing about the refugees who are living, working, doing businesses and getting married to Pakistani citizens.

Then in mid-1990s, Pakistan assisted in creating Taliban and still did nothing about Afghan refugees.

Then in 2011, Pakistan reversed its foreign policy and joined the War-On-Terror and provided airbases and airspace to bomb Afghanistan. ISI and Pakistan military allowed the Taliban to slip into Pakistan and conduct their affairs and Government still did nothing about the refugees.

Then in 2021, Pakistan welcomed Taliban back into power and still did nothing about the refugees.

Over 40+ years, do you not think that Pakistan Government has any responsibility for the mismanagement of this issue?

The father of this 3 week old baby out in the open in cold weather of Islamabad is a Pakistani citizen! This 3 baby has an infection and it is untreated

His name is Danyaal, remember the name of the "Namak Haram" whose father is a Pakistani citizen.

I would all like Pakistani Nationalists to take a good look at the picture and then look at this picture from Gaza

These are who Israel calls "Namak Harams & Terrorists"

It’s all because they are created by god this way, they are prideful people and pak really helped them in their bad times but unfortunately we didn’t provide them the respect they wanted and treated them as 2nd class citizens which is pretty much fine for any group of people who need help but since they are prideful people they took this insult to their core and start taking Pakistan as an enemy.

Never hurt an ego of Aghans , Iran or Arab people they will going to take revenge with you and will forget any favors you have done upon them in the past.

The best way to get benefits from such type of people is to provide them favors and help them in their need and in the end provide them respect, literally they will going to die for you without even thinking twice. This is a human psychology of such people.

Someone who understand the Pushtun psyche...

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You are right about the difference between refugees and legal/illegal migrants.

This might be a controversial opinion but in an ideal world, I would like for Pakistan and Afghanistan to be a single country under a single democratically elected government (not the Taliban) with all people having citizenship and equal rights. It would resolve a lot of issues.

I think a single country is unrealistic, Afghans are very proud people and to be fair, their identity is older than Pakistan's. But the reality of the situation is that the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan has always been fluid, and those people don't really differentiate between each other, and most of them have spread through all areas of Pakistan anyway. It's better that they are integrated and feel part of the country rather than feel like outsiders. It would diffuse tensions in my opinion.

 

[LordJames]

I think a single country is unrealistic, Afghans are very proud people and to be fair, their identity is older than Pakistan's. But the reality of the situation is that the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan has always been fluid, and those people don't really differentiate between each other, and most of them have spread through all areas of Pakistan anyway. It's better that they are integrated and feel part of the country rather than feel like outsiders. It would diffuse tensions in my opinion.

Pushtuns are binary people.

1. Pakistani Pushtun overwhelming majority if not all DO NOT want an independent Pushtunistan
2. Afghani Pushtun overwhelming majority if not all DO NOT want an independent Pushtunistan

The ship sailed in 1947, it is a dead issue except for some and their political career.

How to solve TTP and Afghan issue:

I have written about this in great detail but I realize people don't read long posts so here are just 4 things as a starter:

1. Release Imran Khan and empower PTI in KP
   
   1. Its easier to compromise with Imran Khan then to keep lifting coffins everyday, it is the ego of Asim Munir which is standing in the way and ONE DAY the Army would have snap from lifing coffins.
2. Appoint a Pushtun as an ambassador and restore full diplomatic setup, he much have powerful family and tribal roots
3. Let Imran Khan, Mufti Taqi Usmani, Mufti Abdur Rahim & others and a Pushtun elder delegation which is handpicked visit Kabul and apologize for Musharraf era meddling and killings in Kabul and give a few sweeners in return, number ONE is this:​
4. Open a new category of Medical VISA for Afghans where Afghans are tracked in Pakistan and then sent back after their treatment, they don't want to settle in Pakistan anyways! Afghanistan has ZERO medical facilities and that is their number ONE reliance on Pakistan
   

   1. Allow Pakistani Doctors to work in Afghanistan and make it acceptable and come up with some sort of a clever plan...​

Give it 6 months and if Terrorism is not decreased in Pakistan, punish me however you want. The 5th issue is this which will be a massive booster

• Grant children (Pakistani citizenship or residency) where at least 1 parent is Pakistani Citizen, by all means do stringent backgroun checks, criminal checks whatever but provide a pathway to Chilren of 1 Pakistan Citizen!

Imran Khan and PTI realised all of this years ago and it is not rocket science.

OR

• Keep calling Afghans "Namak Harams"
• Keep lifting coffins

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pushtuns are binary people.

1. Pakistani Pushtun overwhelming majority if not all DO NOT want an independent Pushtunistan
2. Afghani Pushtun overwhelming majority if not all DO NOT want an independent Pushtunistan

The ship sailed in 1947, it is a dead issue except for some and their political career.

How to solve TTP and Afghan issue:

I have written about this in great detail but I realize people don't read long posts so here are just 4 things as a starter:

1. Release Imran Khan and empower PTI in KP
   
   1. Its easier to compromise with Imran Khan then to keep lifting coffins everyday, it is the ego of Asim Munir which is standing in the way and ONE DAY the Army would have snap from lifing coffins.
2. Appoint a Pushtun as an ambassador and restore full diplomatic setup, he much have powerful family and tribal roots
3. Let Imran Khan, Mufti Taqi Usmani, Mufti Abdur Rahim & others and a Pushtun elder delegation which is handpicked visit Kabul and apologize for Musharraf era meddling and killings in Kabul and give a few sweeners in return, number ONE is this:​
4. Open a new category of Medical VISA for Afghans where Afghans are tracked in Pakistan and then sent back after their treatment, they don't want to settle in Pakistan anyways! Afghanistan has ZERO medical facilities and that is their number ONE reliance on Pakistan​
   1. Allow Pakistani Doctors to work in Afghanistan and make it acceptable and come up with some sort of a clever plan...​

Give it 6 months and if Terrorism is not decreased in Pakistan, punish me however you want. The 5th issue is this which will be a massive booster

• Grant children (Pakistani citizenship or residency) where at least 1 parent is Pakistani Citizen, by all means do stringent backgroun checks, criminal checks whatever but provide a pathway to Chilren of 1 Pakistan Citizen!

Imran Khan and PTI realised all of this years ago and it is not rocket science.

OR

• Keep calling Afghans "Namak Harams"
• Keep lifting coffins

Brilliant post bro

I have followed Imran Khan's career since before he was a politician, this is a man who was immensely proud of his Pashtun roots and his Khyber heritage, but also immensely proud of being a Pakistani and a Lahori where his family lived for the last couple of generations.

Pakistan wasn't created to foster divides among ethnicities, it is tragic what the establishment have done to one of their most famous sons.

 

[Ball Blazer]

PM directs authorities to ensure 'immediate repatriation' of Afghan refugees

Amid rising tensions between Pakistan and Afghanistan following cross-border attacks, Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif on Friday directed federal and provincial authorities to ensure the immediate repatriation of Afghan refugees, noting that the country can no longer bear the burden of hosting them indefinitely.

Chairing a high-level meeting in Islamabad on the repatriation of Afghan refugees, the premier reaffirmed Pakistan’s commitment to regional peace, regretting that the country had paid a heavy price for decades of instability in Afghanistan.


The meeting was attended by Field Marshal Syed Asim Munir, federal ministers, the prime minister of Azad Jammu and Kashmir, the chief ministers of Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan, Gilgit-Baltistan, and a representative of the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa chief minister, along with senior federal and provincial officials.

"Pakistan had suffered thousands of lives lost and billions in economic damages during the war against terrorism," he said, expressing concern over the recent cross-border attacks from Afghan soil.

PM Shehbaz said that despite repeated diplomatic engagements, including multiple visits to Kabul by the deputy prime minister, and the defence minister, Afghan authorities had failed to prevent the use of their territory for attacks on Pakistan.

The prime minister paid tribute to Pakistan’s armed forces for repelling recent attacks from Afghanistan, praising Field Marshal Asim Munir’s leadership and the army’s professional capability in defending the nation.

He added that the Pakistani people who sacrificed in the war on terror were now asking when the government would end the burden of hosting Afghan refugees.

The forum was briefed that the repatriation of Afghan nationals had begun in phases, with 1,477,592 individuals returned to Afghanistan as of October 16.

Officials said no further extension would be granted, and only those holding valid Pakistani visas would be permitted to stay. The meeting was informed that exit points were being increased to facilitate speedy repatriation.

It was stressed that providing shelter to undocumented Afghans or hosting them in guesthouses was a "punishable offence".

Meanwhile, PM Shehbaz directed that elderly persons, women, children, and minorities be treated respectfully during the repatriation process, and that the public should be made partners in ensuring compliance with government policy.

The prime minister also welcomed the cooperation of provincial governments and praised their support for implementing the federal policy on refugee repatriation.

The forum decided that all recommendations presented would be implemented strictly, with PM Shehbaz urging all provinces to provide full support to the federal government in ensuring the dignified and timely return of Afghan refugees.

Heightened tensions
Islamabad and Kabul are witnessing heightened tensions amid the Afghan Taliban regime's reluctance to act against terrorist groups, operating from Afghan soil, in the backdrop of rising terror attacks in Pakistan.

The country has witnessed a surge in cross-border terror incidents since Taliban rulers returned to Afghanistan in 2021, particularly in the bordering provinces of KP and Balochistan.

The two nations share a porous border spanning around 2,500 kilometres with several crossing points which hold significance as a key element of regional trade and relations between the people across both sides of the fence.

However, the issue of terrorism remains a key issue for Pakistan, which has urged Afghanistan to prevent its soil from being used by groups such as the TTP to carry out attacks inside the former’s territory.

Islamabad’s reservations have also been confirmed by a report submitted to the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) by the Analytical Support and Sanctions Monitoring Team, which has revealed a nexus between Kabul and the TTP, with the former providing logistical, operational, and financial support to the latter.

Pakistan has hosted Afghans for more than four decades, from the Soviet invasion through the Taliban takeover in 2021. Some refugees were born and raised in Pakistan; others are still waiting for third-country relocation.

According to media reports, following a 2023 crackdown on undocumented Afghans and those exceeding legal status, more than 554,000 Afghans have been returned since April 2025 under Pakistan’s Illegal Foreigners Repatriation Plan — including around 145,000 in August.

According to security sources, masterminds and facilitators of terrorism are based in Afghanistan and are being supported by India.

PM orders 'immediate repatriation' of Afghan refugees

Amid rising tensions between Pakistan and Afghanistan following cross-border attacks, Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif on Friday directed federal and provincial authorities to ensure the immediate...

www.thenews.com.pk

 

[Theanonymousone]

Pushtuns are binary people.

1. Pakistani Pushtun overwhelming majority if not all DO NOT want an independent Pushtunistan
2. Afghani Pushtun overwhelming majority if not all DO NOT want an independent Pushtunistan

The ship sailed in 1947, it is a dead issue except for some and their political career.

How to solve TTP and Afghan issue:

I have written about this in great detail but I realize people don't read long posts so here are just 4 things as a starter:

1. Release Imran Khan and empower PTI in KP
   
   1. Its easier to compromise with Imran Khan then to keep lifting coffins everyday, it is the ego of Asim Munir which is standing in the way and ONE DAY the Army would have snap from lifing coffins.
2. Appoint a Pushtun as an ambassador and restore full diplomatic setup, he much have powerful family and tribal roots
3. Let Imran Khan, Mufti Taqi Usmani, Mufti Abdur Rahim & others and a Pushtun elder delegation which is handpicked visit Kabul and apologize for Musharraf era meddling and killings in Kabul and give a few sweeners in return, number ONE is this:​
4. Open a new category of Medical VISA for Afghans where Afghans are tracked in Pakistan and then sent back after their treatment, they don't want to settle in Pakistan anyways! Afghanistan has ZERO medical facilities and that is their number ONE reliance on Pakistan​
   1. Allow Pakistani Doctors to work in Afghanistan and make it acceptable and come up with some sort of a clever plan...​

Give it 6 months and if Terrorism is not decreased in Pakistan, punish me however you want. The 5th issue is this which will be a massive booster

• Grant children (Pakistani citizenship or residency) where at least 1 parent is Pakistani Citizen, by all means do stringent backgroun checks, criminal checks whatever but provide a pathway to Chilren of 1 Pakistan Citizen!

Imran Khan and PTI realised all of this years ago and it is not rocket science.

OR

• Keep calling Afghans "Namak Harams"
• Keep lifting coffins

One of your very few posts that doesn't go on criticizing other religions.

While I am no expert on Afghan - Pak issue, at-least this is a better way to resolve the grievances peacefully with Pakistan even taking a step back and showing good-will.

Barring the egoistic maniacs, I never understood, why political leaders never strive for peaceful borders. And even if they did, some radicals with deluded interest would jeopardize it with cross-border terrorist attacks. Happened the same way in India-Pakistan case.

Such a peaceful resolution is interesting on paper but hard to execute sadly.

 

[Boyka]

@IronShield @Suleiman @sweep_shot @Justcrazy

I wrote a long essay comparing and contrasting the systems and then deleted it because I know people don't read

Here is just a summary:​

1. The state of Pakistan doesn't even build Mosque (there are only 5-10) Mosques in the entire country which were officially allocated by the Government. They do not have the will let alone the finances to be able to do that. Turkish Diyanet allocated land and builds it and pays the Imam. Almost all Mosques in Pakistan are voluntarily funded and run but in many cases the Imams are paid (meager salary). Nobody gets radicalized at a Mosque (in Pakistan or the West so this isn't an issue) any ways...​
2. There are (almost) equivalent number of children which are taught by the Madrasa system (in Pakistan) compared to those who are taught by the state. This is a world recognized fact and state of Pakistan simply cannot absorb all these kids into state system, I have discussed this somewhere with @Major and Dr @Mamoon about the parallel education systems of Pakistan. But to be fair, the Darul-uloom system in Pakistan operates better then any NGO (system) in the world and taking these kids and educating them which the state neglects! Turkey has state sanctioned education while Pakistan does not. Imran Khan has been comparing about this parallel education system for decades ​
3. An average Mosque goer in Pakistan is 10 times more Islamically aware than a Turk, so you cannot have a system which produces Imams which are inferior in knowledge to those who pray behind them!​
4. A typical Pakistani Darul-uloom graduate is 10 times more Academically read so you cannot all of a sudden reverse the system and start teaching basic books to someone who studies a lot more.​

The state of Pakistan is too incompetent and too broke to do anything about this and the only reason they want to do something is because of Army casualties (and previously due to War-on-Terror).

Let me now reverse your mind and tell you the real issue and lets just take Deobandi and Barelwee example...

@shamaan @KingKhanWC

In a Pakistani Darul-uloom, two typical students study (near identical) text books, they practise (Hanafi Madhab) their belief system is (Maturidi) from their books to their lives is identical then how come:​

1. One called himself "Deobandi"​
2. Other calls himself a "Barelwee"​

And are willing to argue for days for issues like Mawlid? How can someone study texts for years and not be able to come to a conclusion on a basic issue like this? OR be able to actually understand each other's position?

Sectarianism and intolerance is indeed an issue pervasive in Pakistani society and you need a lot smarter people than me like @The Bald Eagle or @BouncerGuy to tell you how to stay in the middle lane in Pakistan! But majority of Pakistanees are hot-deaded and not willing to blow themselves or anyone else up!

Lets now look at the issue with TTP:

1. Noor Wali Mehsud (XYZ of similar organisations) are Foreign funded
2. The foot soldiers (TTP, BLA etc) are economically backwards, socially left behind youngsters of Pakistani society

Pakistan produces hunderds of thousands of Madrasah graduates and there isn't a major problem with Madrasah graduates (worldwide) with radicalism anywhere.

Al-Qaeda and ISIS are not Madrasa graduates but university graduates from top universities, look it up!

Appreciate the detailed response.

I think poverty and the lack of political will to do anything about madrasah regulation is the reason for all these problems. In that part of the world, a lot of the religion is derived from local languages and customs. This obviously has an effect on the lived experience of Muslims in Pakistan. There’s more a of ‘culture of religion’ than a doctrinal one which feeds into extremism. It doesn’t take much financial effort to control or observe students and fund imams. Egypt spends about £500m a year.

The real question is if there’s an argument for a centralised model similar to Egypt, Morocco, Saudi Arabia or is that not something we should strive for? The countries mentioned are generally safer from extremism but its citizens are suppressed.

We have authoritarian rule anyway, is it worth it if Imran Khan isn’t freed and we continue on this path.

Just a thought but maybe not worth the short term gain.

 

[LordJames]

Appreciate the detailed response.

I think poverty and the lack of political will to do anything about madrasah regulation is the reason for all these problems. In that part of the world, a lot of the religion is derived from local languages and customs. This obviously has an effect on the lived experience of Muslims in Pakistan. There’s more a of ‘culture of religion’ than a doctrinal one which feeds into extremism. It doesn’t take much financial effort to control or observe students and fund imams. Egypt spends about £500m a year.

The real question is if there’s an argument for a centralised model similar to Egypt, Morocco, Saudi Arabia or is that not something we should strive for? The countries mentioned are generally safer from extremism but its citizens are suppressed.

We have authoritarian rule anyway, is it worth it if Imran Khan isn’t freed and we continue on this path.

Just a thought but maybe not worth the short term gain.

The first question to ask is what is the purpose of advance Islamic education?​

1. To study Qur'aan and Sunnah in order to get closer to Allah Ta'ala? OR​
2. Support the Government and appease the masses?​

Scholars in Saudia & Egypt by and large fulfill 2 and have been doing it for decades.

Islamic knowledge in Morocco barring a few Scholars is below standards. In Turkiye, it was systematically dismantled by Secularists and it is still rebooting.

The "Government appeasing" scholars have no worth among masses so Saudia and Egypt both still have a massive militant problem because people don't trust the scholars.​

 

[mazkhan]

Its called ethno fascism

Asabiyah prophet muhammad warned us of this nationalism, partizanship , tribalism its called asabiyah .

These afghans / taliban / ttp/ baloch fall under it and they have an extreme racist attitude towards punjabis look at themselves as racially superior.

Parizanship and cult worship pti are classic example if tomorrow imran khan said I am a God and worship me you would have people like bewal calling him God

 

[LordJames]

Turkey?

@IronShield

Teenager saying "Voting is Shirk" and girl arguing with him during Live Interview...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1981035357685633475

For those in Pakistan who think that Pakistan should have a Turkish style Islamic education system which has solved the Extremism issue.

Turkish people are not prepared to handle/counter these arguments in general due to Islamic Academia standards being lower...

 

[rickroll]

Pushtuns are binary people.

1. Pakistani Pushtun overwhelming majority if not all DO NOT want an independent Pushtunistan
2. Afghani Pushtun overwhelming majority if not all DO NOT want an independent Pushtunistan

The ship sailed in 1947, it is a dead issue except for some and their political career.

How to solve TTP and Afghan issue:

I have written about this in great detail but I realize people don't read long posts so here are just 4 things as a starter:

1. Release Imran Khan and empower PTI in KP
   
   1. Its easier to compromise with Imran Khan then to keep lifting coffins everyday, it is the ego of Asim Munir which is standing in the way and ONE DAY the Army would have snap from lifing coffins.
2. Appoint a Pushtun as an ambassador and restore full diplomatic setup, he much have powerful family and tribal roots
3. Let Imran Khan, Mufti Taqi Usmani, Mufti Abdur Rahim & others and a Pushtun elder delegation which is handpicked visit Kabul and apologize for Musharraf era meddling and killings in Kabul and give a few sweeners in return, number ONE is this:​
4. Open a new category of Medical VISA for Afghans where Afghans are tracked in Pakistan and then sent back after their treatment, they don't want to settle in Pakistan anyways! Afghanistan has ZERO medical facilities and that is their number ONE reliance on Pakistan​
   1. Allow Pakistani Doctors to work in Afghanistan and make it acceptable and come up with some sort of a clever plan...​

Give it 6 months and if Terrorism is not decreased in Pakistan, punish me however you want. The 5th issue is this which will be a massive booster

• Grant children (Pakistani citizenship or residency) where at least 1 parent is Pakistani Citizen, by all means do stringent backgroun checks, criminal checks whatever but provide a pathway to Chilren of 1 Pakistan Citizen!

Imran Khan and PTI realised all of this years ago and it is not rocket science.

OR

• Keep calling Afghans "Namak Harams"
• Keep lifting coffins

Great post