Why select the players in the first place when you will only publicly ridicule them on tour?

[Deewana Mastana]

I heard Arthur publicly making comments on Imran and Sohail Khan about their lack of penetration and not being upto international standards generally.

What I am trying to understand is that if that is what you think of your players then why you are selecting them time after time and taking them on tours with you?

Sohail since his surprise return to international cricket from the WC 2015 whenever has played has done reasonably well despite all of us seeing how he bowls and grunts bowling at 130kph.

Imran on the other hand, in the limited exposure he has been given has also done reasonably well that too on dead UAE wickets but has struggled with fitness and bowls at 130kph.

Both these players have found themselves part of the recent tours in the last 12 months with limited opportunities but have still done reasonably well when given the chance.

Now the coach has come out with comments on the two players and surely during a tour it is not quite the right time or thing to do so in the media.

My question is that if you don't believe in the players and their capabilities that you have picked yourself then why go ahead and still select them?

Are there no other players in the country who you think can be better fitness and performance wise?

This is not a rant thread but just a question that was bugging me after reading Arthur's comments.

 

[Slog]

It's mind boggling

Dunno what's the plan

Hopefully he had one

 

[itsme]

He doesn't select the squad,if rahat wasn't that dumb sohail and imran wouldn't even have played a match.

 

[Zak_Fan]

If I was Imran, I would be praying for Arthur's sacking. This must have been so deflating for the young man.

 

[MenInG]

If I was Imran, I would be praying for Arthur's sacking. This must have been so deflating for the young man.

I dont think what he said is too wrong. Imran simply does not have the pace.

Sohail Khan comment is more of a problem

 

[Zak_Fan]

I dont think what he said is too wrong. Imran simply does not have the pace.

Sohail Khan comment is more of a problem

I know Arthur's comments make sense, but from Imran's perspective, this just rules him out of 80% of the future Tests. Must be heartbreaking to hear that.

 

[Hawkeye]

Arthur was right about Imran Khan.

But you're also right that why on EARTH did Arthur allow Imran/Sohail to get picked???

We all know they're poor choices. Why have we given them a paid vacation in Aus? Where we're about to get thrashed.

Why not take players who can PERFORM? Asif? Umar Akmal? Hassan Ali? Haris?

It's poor by Mickey, Inzi and Misbah.

 

[Rafay Shafiq]

This is the reason players dislike Arthur

 

[JibranAnsari]

the guy has an average of 28 in uae , i dont see any grass on uae pitches.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Inzi did the same with Azhar when he criticised his slow batting in the warm up game (okay he didn't actually name him but it was obvious who he was referring to). Those around the Pakistan setup speak to the press far too often.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

I dont think what he said is too wrong. Imran simply does not have the pace.

Sohail Khan comment is more of a problem

I don't think there is a question about the validity of his statement.

If Wahab and Amir get injured right ahead of 2nd test, he'll be forced to play 2 pacers he openly ridiculed. I mean what purpose did it serve to by saying to press that those 2 just aren't good enough.

He's done this before, he did it with Australia on their tour to India. When things go south, he is not "part" of the team, he looks for scapegoats. I don't see anything different happening if things end badly for Pakistan on this tour.

 

[Syed1]

Pakistani fans lose the plot when their favorites are criticized. Whatever Arthur said is 100% true. Imran and Sohail are utterly useless and then you add Rahat to the mix and you get one of the worst pace attacks in the world.

You want Arthur to coach you to top of the world then you will have to accept the bitter truth he dishes out. The coach doesn't select the squad and it is increasingly obvious that Misbah and Inzi rate this band of no-hopers and do not want to include any new pacer.

Don't blame Arthur, blame Inzi and Misbah.

 

[Zohaib Shah]

No what he said was very true. Sohail Khan loses the plot after his first spell. He has huge fitness issues which we all know about. Imran Khan is nothing special either.

I think was trying to jusify the selection of the three fast bowlers. Its not his fault that these bowlers were selected.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

I know Arthur's comments make sense, but from Imran's perspective, this just rules him out of 80% of the future Tests. Must be heartbreaking to hear that.

Isnt he responsible for that, He was a mediocre, cant use the new ball. Reliant on pitch to assist the seam movement and same for the old ball... Doesnt have pace... Arthur is correct he is good for green pitches they played in NZL last month... An int'l level should have more on the skill set and ticks on various skill matrices...

Sohail is good to avg but his battery is down when it comes to second spell and second inns... Need to improve his fitness by a large margin especially for tests...

 

[Mamoon]

No need of creating mountain out of a molehill. He was simply explaining why they did not pick Imran and Sohail for this Test.

If these comments deflate the duo, then they are not mentally strong enough to play at this level in the first place.

 

[Kakar]

Imran Khan has played 7 of his 8 tests in UAE, SL or BD. Hardly any of those pitches could be termed green or supportive to pacers. And he has done fairly well. He is more disciplined than any of Rahat, Wahab or Sohail and he should always be our 3rd pacer. He is right about Sohail though. But why select him in first place if that is the case?

 

[in_cutter]

I heard Arthur publicly making comments on Imran and Sohail Khan about their lack of penetration and not being upto international standards generally.

What I am trying to understand is that if that is what you think of your players then why you are selecting them time after time and taking them on tours with you?

Sohail since his surprise return to international cricket from the WC 2015 whenever has played has done reasonably well despite all of us seeing how he bowls and grunts bowling at 130kph.

Imran on the other hand, in the limited exposure he has been given has also done reasonably well that too on dead UAE wickets but has struggled with fitness and bowls at 130kph.

Both these players have found themselves part of the recent tours in the last 12 months with limited opportunities but have still done reasonably well when given the chance.

Now the coach has come out with comments on the two players and surely during a tour it is not quite the right time or thing to do so in the media.

My question is that if you don't believe in the players and their capabilities that you have picked yourself then why go ahead and still select them?

Are there no other players in the country who you think can be better fitness and performance wise?

This is not a rant thread but just a question that was bugging me after reading Arthur's comments.

He said the truth so what is the problem? Besides, he does not select the side.

 

[pasha404]

I think Micky is right and it just shows that squad is selected by Misbah & Inzi they have there buddy to please them

 

[Buffet]

Coach, selector and chairman of PCB do all their jobs via media. It's a unique way to do your job.

 

[MMHS]

What one can expect? If I go one by one, these are the decision makers in PAK team

1. S Khan - diplomat, with ZERO cricket back ground, let alone fast bowling
2. I Haq (CS) - outstanding batsman, one of the greats. Never bowled seriously in his life & never encouraged flat-out pace in exchange of expensive wickets
3. Tauseef & Wasti (Selectors) - one extremely defensive off spinner, another one was poor-mans' Shaan Masood
4. Misbah (C) - Similar of I Haq, but inferior batsmen & very little experience outside Asia. On top of that, no clue about fast bowlers & how to attack with fast bowling
5. Azhar Ali (Deputy) - carbon copy of Misbah, but the carbon is low quality, hence already half fade
6. Azhar Mahmood (Bowling coach) - At his fastest, sometimes he was matching Venkatesh Prashad by pace
7. Wahab Riaz (Senior most fast bowler to lead the attack) - lucky to be born 20 years later, otherwise won't have made PAK A team

I am not sure why people are complaining. I can't write much about others by it was PCB's choice to appoint Mahmood as bowling coach & they allowed Inzi to pick this selection team - I didn't expect much from this lot regarding fast bowling. I won't be surprised, if PAK opens bowling with a spinner at SCG
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]

 

[Major]

Arthur is a simple man, he doesnt have a two way policy. He is blubt will tell you the truth.

Sohail khans fitness is a joke.

 

[Pete Rose]

can someone point me to the 'ridicule' comments?

 

[New Yorker]

I dont think what he said is too wrong. Imran simply does not have the pace.

Sohail Khan comment is more of a problem

What does pace have to do with it?

All he has been doing his entire career is take wickets on flat decks.
Which is what Arthur says he is incapable of.

Score line so far

Reality = 1
Arthur = 0

 

[New Yorker]

No need of creating mountain out of a molehill. He was simply explaining why they did not pick Imran and Sohail for this Test.

If these comments deflate the duo, then they are not mentally strong enough to play at this level in the first place.

What is worrying is that his so called explanation flies in the face of evidence. Ie reality as we can observe it.

 

[Syed1]

What does pace have to do with it?

All he has been doing his entire career is take wickets on flat decks.
Which is what Arthur says he is incapable of.

Score line so far

Reality = 1
Arthur = 0

Imran Khan is the epitome of mediocrity. End of discussion, watch him bowl once in a while and you would hop off his bandwagon in no time.

 

[Pete Rose]

He has been reasonable upfront about everything. If you listen to same interview, even regarding saint younis, he says (and I paraphrase):
i was beginning to have doubts in england but he proved me wrong, so I am sure he will come good so I am keeping the faith with him for now.

 

[hitthestump]

This is not Arthur's fault! It's Inzamam's.

If you were coach you'd be pretty ****** off too if out of 5 pacers 2 are basically unselectable.

Inzy has been useless as selector so far and he needs to take a fair share of responsibility for the decline of the test team.

 

[Hasan123]

What one can expect? If I go one by one, these are the decision makers in PAK team

1. S Khan - diplomat, with ZERO cricket back ground, let alone fast bowling
2. I Haq (CS) - outstanding batsman, one of the greats. Never bowled seriously in his life & never encouraged flat-out pace in exchange of expensive wickets
3. Tauseef & Wasti (Selectors) - one extremely defensive off spinner, another one was poor-mans' Shaan Masood
4. Misbah (C) - Similar of I Haq, but inferior batsmen & very little experience outside Asia. On top of that, no clue about fast bowlers & how to attack with fast bowling
5. Azhar Ali (Deputy) - carbon copy of Misbah, but the carbon is low quality, hence already half fade
6. Azhar Mahmood (Bowling coach) - At his fastest, sometimes he was matching Venkatesh Prashad by pace
7. Wahab Riaz (Senior most fast bowler to lead the attack) - lucky to be born 20 years later, otherwise won't have made PAK A team

I am not sure why people are complaining. I can't write much about others by it was PCB's choice to appoint Mahmood as bowling coach & they allowed Inzi to pick this selection team - I didn't expect much from this lot regarding fast bowling. I won't be surprised, if PAK opens bowling with a spinner at SCG
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]

Azhar, Azhar Mahmood, and Wahab are not selecting the sides

 

[MMHS]

Azhar, Azhar Mahmood, and Wahab are not selecting the sides

They are part of the process - you don't need a voting power to influence. I did take decisions for my department/team, but I used to ask even my interns.

Azhar is part of a thought process that picked 4 left-armers in an ODI match - and let a side off the hook from 99/6 for storing strike bowlers for last few overs; while Mahmood is the bowling coach, who is part of the bowling strategy - you can say that he is a dummy who arranges net session for the bowlers already selected, I won't argue, but that's not the role of the bowling coach - a training staff can do that.

Wahab is too ordinary to be the bowling leader - he doesn't select teams, but on field you need a bowling leader on whom Captain can back for one special effort or junior bowlers can talk to him. There is a reason that Lillee, Marshall, Imran, Macgrath, Ambi, Donald or WW often used to field at mid-on/off. Yasir does that for Misbah in UAE, but in AUS, it has to be Wabah or Amir.

 

[Mainul]

I am sick of this word pace.Was Mcgrath a tearing roaring fast bowler? No.Is Wahab a good bowler because he has a tearing shearing pace of 145 plus?No.

Sohail and Imran both are swing bowlers and both have done better than Wahab and Rahat in limited opportunities they got.What Rahat and Wahab did being selected in this test?They let Australia put on a huge total in first innings and let them ran away with fast scoring in 2nd innings.Sohail and Imran would have done worse than these 2 if they were selected?I DON'T THINK SO.Possibly they would have done better because they maintain better line and length than W and R.

 

[Hasan123]

They are part of the process - you don't need a voting power to influence. I did take decisions for my department/team, but I used to ask even my interns.

Azhar is part of a thought process that picked 4 left-armers in an ODI match - and let a side off the hook from 99/6 for storing strike bowlers for last few overs; while Mahmood is the bowling coach, who is part of the bowling strategy - you can say that he is a dummy who arranges net session for the bowlers already selected, I won't argue, but that's not the role of the bowling coach - a training staff can do that.

Wahab is too ordinary to be the bowling leader - he doesn't select teams, but on field you need a bowling leader on whom Captain can back for one special effort or junior bowlers can talk to him. There is a reason that Lillee, Marshall, Imran, Macgrath, Ambi, Donald or WW often used to field at mid-on/off. Yasir does that for Misbah in UAE, but in AUS, it has to be Wabah or Amir.

So if Azhar is involved in the selection process, agreeing to selecting Babar,Imad,Sharjeel,Hasan Ali in LO wasn't a good idea?

Amir will take over the bowling leader soon anyway

 

[MMHS]

So if Azhar is involved in the selection process, agreeing to selecting Babar,Imad,Sharjeel,Hasan Ali in LO wasn't a good idea?

Amir will take over the bowling leader soon anyway

Check the type of players, you should get the clue - same goes for Misbah; in fact Inzi few years back.

 

[Hasan123]

Check the type of players, you should get the clue - same goes for Misbah; in fact Inzi few years back.

So who selected these players? We can both agree it wasn't Azhar?

 

[MMHS]

So who selected these players? We can both agree it wasn't Azhar?

Azhar is a dummy, he'll not select players even if he is Captain. In fact, he'll not talk anything in exchange of his arm band. I give a classic example - being ODI Captain, he took a stand against Amir, which I respect, though may be influenced by MoHa - it took one meeting with SK to change his mind. If Atrhur wasn't the Coach, Azhar probably would have called Misbah back in PAK, during ENG ODI Series on whom to play & whom to drop.

I am talking about the influence - he is the Deputy & possible next Captain; definitely is part of the think tank.

 

[Hasan123]

Azhar is a dummy, he'll not select players even if he is Captain. In fact, he'll not talk anything in exchange of his arm band. I give a classic example - being ODI Captain, he took a stand against Amir, which I respect, though may be influenced by MoHa - it took one meeting with SK to change his mind. If Atrhur wasn't the Coach, Azhar probably would have called Misbah back in PAK, during ENG ODI Series on whom to play & whom to drop.

I am talking about the influence - he is the Deputy & possible next Captain; definitely is part of the think tank.

Lol agree with most of that. I think if we lose 5-0 vs Australia he will be replaced. Hopefully with Sarfraz with Babar or Imad as VC.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

I don't blame him for saying it publicly. When you're asked questions to explain their exclusion, you're forced in a situation where either approach will bring about criticism. In this case, their fans or if he were to be politically correct, the media and others.

 

[StarWolf]

I do not understand the dislike for Imran Khan Jnr. Hasnt he our best bowler in the flat roads of UAE? It is shocking how a brainless bowler like Rahat is given chances after chances and Imran is made to sit out and then ridiculed by his coach. When has Imran bowled on a grassy pitch except that one match in NZ, arthur? Disgraceful.

 

[Major]

I do not understand the dislike for Imran Khan Jnr. Hasnt he our best bowler in the flat roads of UAE? It is shocking how a brainless bowler like Rahat is given chances after chances and Imran is made to sit out and then ridiculed by his coach. When has Imran bowled on a grassy pitch except that one match in NZ, arthur? Disgraceful.

its about being brainless, its about having an ability.

Rahat's ability is to use and hit the seam hard

 

[StarWolf]

Imran Khan is the epitome of mediocrity. End of discussion, watch him bowl once in a while and you would hop off his bandwagon in no time.

This is incorrect. Imran is the only bowler in the team currently other than Amir who has some sense related to line and length. Pace does not matter only and his pace is at par with the useless rahat.

 

[StarWolf]

its about being brainless, its about having an ability.

Rahat's ability is to use and hit the seam hard

Jnr is very good when it comes to using the reverse swing. I am sure you have watched his bowling on dead roads of UAE as well. Guy got wickets out of nothing. Rahat is just poor and should not even play for our A team.

 

[Major]

Jnr is very good when it comes to using the reverse swing. I am sure you have watched his bowling on dead roads of UAE as well. Guy got wickets out of nothing. Rahat is just poor and should not even play for our A team.

if you want reverse swing then why not take wahab with you who bowls fast and gets reverse swing.

Rahat is a good bowler, he knows how to hit the seam, problem is he is not consistent.

btw does Imran khan jr bowl reverse swing? He has no pace how is that possible?

 

[saabir]

It was the very honest & straightforward reasons given by Micky. It's not his fault that sectors select these mediocre players. Actually he was dead right reg Sohail fitness & IK usefulness in these conditions.I think he gave the hint to selectors for inclusion of Asif in next series

 

[AlphaFighter]

Totally disagree with Arthur on Imran Khan.

 

[Slog]

It was the very honest & straightforward reasons given by Micky. It's not his fault that sectors select these mediocre players. Actually he was dead right reg Sohail fitness & IK usefulness in these conditions.I think he gave the hint to selectors for inclusion of Asif in next series

Yes he has an issue with someone's fitness and the alternative is Asif who is clearly unfit

 

[The_Odd_One]

It is clear that Arthur does not rate these 2 very high. They can either take it as a constructive criticism and prove him wrong by their performance or take the Umar Akmal route.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

Most of you have missed the real argument here.

With what I said didn't mean that Arthur alone picks the team but he does have a say just as much as the selectors must have. Now the 2 players mentioned have been part of the team for the past year at least or more and have played every now and then.

Now if any issue is with their game or something then why say it out in the media and ridicule them and then come the next game if they're required to play then how does it look overall?

Coach should be backing each and every player on tour and if needs be the odd word here or there is fine but dissing your own players like that then the question would arise that why keep selecti them over and over if you've got doubts over their cricketing abilities.

If selectors are behind their persistent selections without Arthur's consent then he needs to be strong enough and being that up in the open when questioned about such selections.