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Why would Pakistan bat first on these pitches? Unbelievable!

aazhar

Debutant
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Runs
107
Rohit had said after first match vs Pak that the wicket tends to get better chasing.

Only time India has been troubled has been game vs HK, where India was put into bat.

In this match, even if Pak made 270, it was still cake walk.

There is no seam or swing anyways and it quickens up under lights. It’s just too easy under lights.
 
Everywhere you read, all commentaries, they are saying how much easier it is to bat second.
 
Why would you win the toss and elect to bat first?

I mean seriesly. Lost to India by batting first in the last match and making the same mistake again? India is so good in chasing scores and you are giving them what they want? Seriesly, I was a big supporter of Sarfaraz but not anymore.
 
Because it was the logical thing to do. You think we would've won had we been chasing. We struggled to chase against Afghanistan and you're suggesting we would've been in with a chance against India?
 
Lol Sri Lanka and Bangladesh have struggled batting second.

Lets just face it, the gap between India and the rest of Asia is vast. Only comfort Pakistan can take is they are number 2.
 
It's easier to bat second because India are doing it properly. We batted second against Afghanistan and struggled to chase 250 odd
 
Because it was the logical thing to do. You think we would've won had we been chasing. We struggled to chase against Afghanistan and you're suggesting we would've been in with a chance against India?

Different pitch different opppsition. India struggled to defend vs HK on the same ground
 
Different pitch different opppsition. India struggled to defend vs HK on the same ground

If you take out Kumar's over, we scored 46 runs in the remaining 9 (from the last 10) and we all saw how uncomfortable the players were. Are you saying the break during the half resulted in changing the pitch so drastically that it became easier to bat? Plus, it was a used pitch. Same pitch as the earlier game.
 
Honestly speaking, Pak look so average.

Bowling doesn't look penetrative, captaincy without much innovation or imagination and the batting is primitive, where there is an abundance of accumulators and too much reliance on Fakhar to score or expect some kind of miracle from Asif Ali late on, plus the lower order is non-existent.
 
Becuase all our players scored 18+ in yo yo test we have got rid of unfit players and we can easily score 300 and take the catches because we are fittest
 
It is all about what you aim aim for.
Sarfaraz said at the toss that they were looking for 250 and they played in the same way.
 
I mean seriesly. Lost to India by batting first in the last match and making the same mistake again? India is so good in chasing scores and you are giving them what they want? Seriesly, I was a big supporter of Sarfaraz but not anymore.
You hardly chased 250 against Afghanistan and do you think you will chase that score against us with better bowling and fielding? You are a historically poor chasing team and batting first is your best bet.
 
Even if India made 200 we would have struggled to make it. But I agree, India are the best chasers in cricket so why give them what they want
 
You hardly chased 250 against Afghanistan and do you think you will chase that score against us with better bowling and fielding? You are a historically poor chasing team and batting first is your best bet.

Yes it was tough against Afghanistan but what I am trying to say is at least don't play in opposite team hands, they just beaten you comfortably in last match and Pakistan is under pressure to perform, Fakhar is not performing well and batting in such hot weather is not easy. Look Indian batsmen right now how easily they are batting. Our main strength is bowling so why not give it a try. Pakistan team management needs to change their defensive mindset.
 
no team that can consistently score 250+ batting first should ever bat first if winning the toss. sadly there are too many experts on PP who have never played the game and don't understand this simple point. we should never be batting first with this team.
 
It was stupid decision to bat first Micky and saifi gone blind don’t have idea how to go about it
 
Because we can't chase silly. Just go and watch last game against Afghans to know our capabilities
 
India batted first against Hong Kong and see what happened. Hong Kong came so closed to win the match. Pakistan should have at least tried.
 
You have to look at conditions, cannot go blindly one way or another... Batting was easier in the evening, ball was coming nicely...

Regardless its some epic thrashing...If Pakistan wants to win from India, they need to not care about loosing...Pakistan is mentally messed up against India, that has to changed...India does not care about playing against Pakistan, more you care, worse you are going to perform...
 
Either way Pakistan had to lost. I bet there would've been a thread and people saying why Pakistan went to chase. They are weak in chasing, they collapse, their strength is their bowling not their batting.
 
Looking at this performance, I doubt we would have won even batting second.

Which Champion team (as called by our posters) bats at 3.5 runs per over on a flat track for 35 overs and expects to win the match?

They did that against Afghanistan and got lucky that Malik hung around.

They did that against India and were thoroughly punished for slow ineffective batting.
 
Probably last match and CT final prompted him to do so? Nothing wrong with batting first. But they need Fakhar to fire batting first batting second.
 
India and Pakistan were win toss bat first teams for a long time. Dhoni and Yuvi in the 2000s changed the attitude of the team.and Kohli made chasing preferable. Pakistan hasn't changed their attitude yet
 
Kevin pieterson just mentioned that it is easier to bat in night because in day time, its very hot and pace is uneven. However, Sarfaraz mentioned that pitch was difficult to bat in night. Who is right?
 
I think Sarfraz botched it up big time. In Abu Dhabi, chasing was much tougher but in Dubai India won all it's matches while chasing.

Also I think Pak don't back themselves to chase 250+ scores. Especially after they almost lost against Afghanistan.
 
Looking at this performance, I doubt we would have won even batting second.

Which Champion team (as called by our posters) bats at 3.5 runs per over on a flat track for 35 overs and expects to win the match?

They did that against Afghanistan and got lucky that Malik hung around.

They did that against India and were thoroughly punished for slow ineffective batting.

Pakistan's issues are only batting related. All this nonsensical discussion of batting first or second or packing the team with spinners is hypothetical. Until they put enough runs on the scorecard, they will never be able to defend. The most obvious lesson of the CT final should be runs on board make even the big boys fail.
 
I mean seriesly. Lost to India by batting first in the last match and making the same mistake again? India is so good in chasing scores and you are giving them what they want? Seriesly, I was a big supporter of Sarfaraz but not anymore.

The toss decision wasn't Sarfraz's alone, therefore he shouldn't be singled out. You want to know the reason? Now I am serious -

It's because of absoultely wrong planning & squad selection. To cover all bases, for a tournament, you need to spend time on your tactics & strategy to visualize the combination in different context - which is not the strength of your CS. Guy carried a Test to day 5 for 20 minutes, despite 80% thunderstorm threat, because PAK Captain didn't know the 30 minutes extension rule - a playing condition that he must have signed as Captain prior to the tour.

I explain it from Indian perspectives - If you look at IND, they are crystal clear about their strategy, combination & tactics. And, despite not playing there for over a decade they summed-up the Dubai wicket like their palm. Between 2 venues, Dubai is far better for chasing because of the smaller boundary size (you can loft for six to cover RR), and because of dew, as well as better, bouncier wicket. Abu Dhabi also has dew, but the boundary is far, far larger while out field is slow and wicket is absolute dead - still only for dew, as we are heading in to winter, it's becoming easier to chase. PAK did it last time, AFGs almost did it today. Same target of 250, the wicket & condition SRL chased last week unfortunately, it would have been walk over for AFG & BD in last 2 games.

Now, IND's strategy is simple - they have 2 gun openers, and all their games are at Dubai - so their plan is to chase and restrict teams to a reasonable target bowling their spinners, when the condition is dry. Any target below 270 at Dubai, their openers simply will bat through the innings and finish 70% job (today did 100%, barring that run-out). And, since most teams will bat first in such condition, it's almost certain that regardless of toss, IND'll bat 2nd almost always.

BUT, they have checked the other box as well - if someone puts them in or on a belter if they win the toss and opt to bat? This time, again formula is simple, which they did against HK - attack the new ball when it's coming on to bat as new ball doesn't do anything in Dubai, get a head start with top order, then stroll around with the middle order to play out 50 overs and put a goodish total, if not match winning. Now, chasing 275+, regardless of whatever top order do, against a very good fielding unit, at one point chasing side will reach a stage of 7+ asking - then the choking of single starts by MS, using spinners taking pace out of the ball. No matter how many wickets at hand, it's not easy when you are drained of boundary and literally have to live with 5-6 singles every over or inch by inch pressure builds, until it explodes to result couple of wickets - a pair of new batsmen, and the cat & mouse game starts, when most times MS will win.

Come to PAK - can't go for that explosive start because of Banja and Babar; while hack Fakhar has been studied to perfection about his range of shots. You can't, simply can't play ODI cricket with Imam & Babar at top 3 - can't, shouldn't and PAK also won't have done so if there wasn't an issue of blood - apna khoon always thicker than water.

- can't use spinners in middle overs, because these spinners won't get settled batsmen out - if PAK bowls first, often you'll see a 140-150 runs partnership for one of the top 3 wickets, which sets the platform for a 300+ target. Spinners, not for the sake of slow bowling - spinners for the sake of getting set batsman out, which Shadab might do to some extent, that's it; IND has 3, and then they blew PAK Middle order with Jadav guy.

- can't choke teams with 3-4 pacers on these wickets - one selective hit, and you can manage an asking of <6 easily. Ul Haq hasn't given them any spinner, who can bowl tight for 6-7 overs according to field & plan - Shadab is certainly not one, h bowls too many Googly, and south Asian batsmen read leggis from air, not after pitching. Today, Mahmudullah categorically stuck Rashid for 2-3 boundaries & six by slog sweep with the Googly, on a 85 metre ground.

- this "choking" mantra for Sarfraz is to put 5 men on line of inner circle and scream at "soft" targets - why there is a single? This guy looks far better because he replaced Azhar, and because of the teams he had led against. Obviously, milking CT win in UK with 3 pacers at their best won't last long til Asia Cup on a completely different surface.

So, only option left for PAK is to bat first, play "conventional" cricket to put a 270+ score and expect new ball pair take out at least one Indian opener, if not both. Then, somehow reverse swing starts to happen and PAK blows Indian bottom half, larke lenge estyle. This mantra was used in 1956, sorry 1996 and this might be the case in 2056 as well.

Disclaimer: This post is valid for today, 23 SEP 2018. Next time PAK wins again, preferably against BD in 3 days time, I'll write again parsing Sarfraz & Ul Haq - how dynamic & visionary they are.
 
Had India won the toss today they would have put Pakistan in.

Of course they would have. But instead of using our brains and put them out of their element, we gave them what they want and just rolled over and died.

And everyone saying "we can't chase look what happened vs. afghanistan". Here's a reminder for you, we BEAT afghanistan.
 
Because Pakistan is the world’s worst chasing side. Simple.

We should always bat first no matter what.
 
Sarfaraz and Mickey keep on hoping for a repeat of Ct final..they admitted they are not confident about chasing against India’s bowling..
 
Looks like Sarfraz was right chasing here also isn’t easy if you manage to get early wickets
 
Despite conditions, I would always want Pakistan to bat first. If someone can get going at the top and post a total that is par for conditions, our bowlers can flip the script and come alive. This applies even more when it comes to knockout situations
 
The toss decision wasn't Sarfraz's alone, therefore he shouldn't be singled out. You want to know the reason? Now I am serious -

It's because of absoultely wrong planning & squad selection. To cover all bases, for a tournament, you need to spend time on your tactics & strategy to visualize the combination in different context - which is not the strength of your CS. Guy carried a Test to day 5 for 20 minutes, despite 80% thunderstorm threat, because PAK Captain didn't know the 30 minutes extension rule - a playing condition that he must have signed as Captain prior to the tour.

I explain it from Indian perspectives - If you look at IND, they are crystal clear about their strategy, combination & tactics. And, despite not playing there for over a decade they summed-up the Dubai wicket like their palm. Between 2 venues, Dubai is far better for chasing because of the smaller boundary size (you can loft for six to cover RR), and because of dew, as well as better, bouncier wicket. Abu Dhabi also has dew, but the boundary is far, far larger while out field is slow and wicket is absolute dead - still only for dew, as we are heading in to winter, it's becoming easier to chase. PAK did it last time, AFGs almost did it today. Same target of 250, the wicket & condition SRL chased last week unfortunately, it would have been walk over for AFG & BD in last 2 games.

Now, IND's strategy is simple - they have 2 gun openers, and all their games are at Dubai - so their plan is to chase and restrict teams to a reasonable target bowling their spinners, when the condition is dry. Any target below 270 at Dubai, their openers simply will bat through the innings and finish 70% job (today did 100%, barring that run-out). And, since most teams will bat first in such condition, it's almost certain that regardless of toss, IND'll bat 2nd almost always.

BUT, they have checked the other box as well - if someone puts them in or on a belter if they win the toss and opt to bat? This time, again formula is simple, which they did against HK - attack the new ball when it's coming on to bat as new ball doesn't do anything in Dubai, get a head start with top order, then stroll around with the middle order to play out 50 overs and put a goodish total, if not match winning. Now, chasing 275+, regardless of whatever top order do, against a very good fielding unit, at one point chasing side will reach a stage of 7+ asking - then the choking of single starts by MS, using spinners taking pace out of the ball. No matter how many wickets at hand, it's not easy when you are drained of boundary and literally have to live with 5-6 singles every over or inch by inch pressure builds, until it explodes to result couple of wickets - a pair of new batsmen, and the cat & mouse game starts, when most times MS will win.

Come to PAK - can't go for that explosive start because of Banja and Babar; while hack Fakhar has been studied to perfection about his range of shots. You can't, simply can't play ODI cricket with Imam & Babar at top 3 - can't, shouldn't and PAK also won't have done so if there wasn't an issue of blood - apna khoon always thicker than water.

- can't use spinners in middle overs, because these spinners won't get settled batsmen out - if PAK bowls first, often you'll see a 140-150 runs partnership for one of the top 3 wickets, which sets the platform for a 300+ target. Spinners, not for the sake of slow bowling - spinners for the sake of getting set batsman out, which Shadab might do to some extent, that's it; IND has 3, and then they blew PAK Middle order with Jadav guy.

- can't choke teams with 3-4 pacers on these wickets - one selective hit, and you can manage an asking of <6 easily. Ul Haq hasn't given them any spinner, who can bowl tight for 6-7 overs according to field & plan - Shadab is certainly not one, h bowls too many Googly, and south Asian batsmen read leggis from air, not after pitching. Today, Mahmudullah categorically stuck Rashid for 2-3 boundaries & six by slog sweep with the Googly, on a 85 metre ground.

- this "choking" mantra for Sarfraz is to put 5 men on line of inner circle and scream at "soft" targets - why there is a single? This guy looks far better because he replaced Azhar, and because of the teams he had led against. Obviously, milking CT win in UK with 3 pacers at their best won't last long til Asia Cup on a completely different surface.

So, only option left for PAK is to bat first, play "conventional" cricket to put a 270+ score and expect new ball pair take out at least one Indian opener, if not both. Then, somehow reverse swing starts to happen and PAK blows Indian bottom half, larke lenge estyle. This mantra was used in 1956, sorry 1996 and this might be the case in 2056 as well.

Disclaimer: This post is valid for today, 23 SEP 2018. Next time PAK wins again, preferably against BD in 3 days time, I'll write again parsing Sarfraz & Ul Haq - how dynamic & visionary they are.

Another brilliant post :bow: .

Hiallirous how Sarfraz fans don't have a response .
 
The toss decision wasn't Sarfraz's alone, therefore he shouldn't be singled out. You want to know the reason? Now I am serious -

It's because of absoultely wrong planning & squad selection. To cover all bases, for a tournament, you need to spend time on your tactics & strategy to visualize the combination in different context - which is not the strength of your CS. Guy carried a Test to day 5 for 20 minutes, despite 80% thunderstorm threat, because PAK Captain didn't know the 30 minutes extension rule - a playing condition that he must have signed as Captain prior to the tour.

I explain it from Indian perspectives - If you look at IND, they are crystal clear about their strategy, combination & tactics. And, despite not playing there for over a decade they summed-up the Dubai wicket like their palm. Between 2 venues, Dubai is far better for chasing because of the smaller boundary size (you can loft for six to cover RR), and because of dew, as well as better, bouncier wicket. Abu Dhabi also has dew, but the boundary is far, far larger while out field is slow and wicket is absolute dead - still only for dew, as we are heading in to winter, it's becoming easier to chase. PAK did it last time, AFGs almost did it today. Same target of 250, the wicket & condition SRL chased last week unfortunately, it would have been walk over for AFG & BD in last 2 games.

Now, IND's strategy is simple - they have 2 gun openers, and all their games are at Dubai - so their plan is to chase and restrict teams to a reasonable target bowling their spinners, when the condition is dry. Any target below 270 at Dubai, their openers simply will bat through the innings and finish 70% job (today did 100%, barring that run-out). And, since most teams will bat first in such condition, it's almost certain that regardless of toss, IND'll bat 2nd almost always.

BUT, they have checked the other box as well - if someone puts them in or on a belter if they win the toss and opt to bat? This time, again formula is simple, which they did against HK - attack the new ball when it's coming on to bat as new ball doesn't do anything in Dubai, get a head start with top order, then stroll around with the middle order to play out 50 overs and put a goodish total, if not match winning. Now, chasing 275+, regardless of whatever top order do, against a very good fielding unit, at one point chasing side will reach a stage of 7+ asking - then the choking of single starts by MS, using spinners taking pace out of the ball. No matter how many wickets at hand, it's not easy when you are drained of boundary and literally have to live with 5-6 singles every over or inch by inch pressure builds, until it explodes to result couple of wickets - a pair of new batsmen, and the cat & mouse game starts, when most times MS will win.

Come to PAK - can't go for that explosive start because of Banja and Babar; while hack Fakhar has been studied to perfection about his range of shots. You can't, simply can't play ODI cricket with Imam & Babar at top 3 - can't, shouldn't and PAK also won't have done so if there wasn't an issue of blood - apna khoon always thicker than water.

- can't use spinners in middle overs, because these spinners won't get settled batsmen out - if PAK bowls first, often you'll see a 140-150 runs partnership for one of the top 3 wickets, which sets the platform for a 300+ target. Spinners, not for the sake of slow bowling - spinners for the sake of getting set batsman out, which Shadab might do to some extent, that's it; IND has 3, and then they blew PAK Middle order with Jadav guy.

- can't choke teams with 3-4 pacers on these wickets - one selective hit, and you can manage an asking of <6 easily. Ul Haq hasn't given them any spinner, who can bowl tight for 6-7 overs according to field & plan - Shadab is certainly not one, h bowls too many Googly, and south Asian batsmen read leggis from air, not after pitching. Today, Mahmudullah categorically stuck Rashid for 2-3 boundaries & six by slog sweep with the Googly, on a 85 metre ground.

- this "choking" mantra for Sarfraz is to put 5 men on line of inner circle and scream at "soft" targets - why there is a single? This guy looks far better because he replaced Azhar, and because of the teams he had led against. Obviously, milking CT win in UK with 3 pacers at their best won't last long til Asia Cup on a completely different surface.

So, only option left for PAK is to bat first, play "conventional" cricket to put a 270+ score and expect new ball pair take out at least one Indian opener, if not both. Then, somehow reverse swing starts to happen and PAK blows Indian bottom half, larke lenge estyle. This mantra was used in 1956, sorry 1996 and this might be the case in 2056 as well.

Disclaimer: This post is valid for today, 23 SEP 2018. Next time PAK wins again, preferably against BD in 3 days time, I'll write again parsing Sarfraz & Ul Haq - how dynamic & visionary they are.

Another briiliant post!
 
The toss decision wasn't Sarfraz's alone, therefore he shouldn't be singled out. You want to know the reason? Now I am serious -

It's because of absoultely wrong planning & squad selection. To cover all bases, for a tournament, you need to spend time on your tactics & strategy to visualize the combination in different context - which is not the strength of your CS. Guy carried a Test to day 5 for 20 minutes, despite 80% thunderstorm threat, because PAK Captain didn't know the 30 minutes extension rule - a playing condition that he must have signed as Captain prior to the tour.

I explain it from Indian perspectives - If you look at IND, they are crystal clear about their strategy, combination & tactics. And, despite not playing there for over a decade they summed-up the Dubai wicket like their palm. Between 2 venues, Dubai is far better for chasing because of the smaller boundary size (you can loft for six to cover RR), and because of dew, as well as better, bouncier wicket. Abu Dhabi also has dew, but the boundary is far, far larger while out field is slow and wicket is absolute dead - still only for dew, as we are heading in to winter, it's becoming easier to chase. PAK did it last time, AFGs almost did it today. Same target of 250, the wicket & condition SRL chased last week unfortunately, it would have been walk over for AFG & BD in last 2 games.

Now, IND's strategy is simple - they have 2 gun openers, and all their games are at Dubai - so their plan is to chase and restrict teams to a reasonable target bowling their spinners, when the condition is dry. Any target below 270 at Dubai, their openers simply will bat through the innings and finish 70% job (today did 100%, barring that run-out). And, since most teams will bat first in such condition, it's almost certain that regardless of toss, IND'll bat 2nd almost always.

BUT, they have checked the other box as well - if someone puts them in or on a belter if they win the toss and opt to bat? This time, again formula is simple, which they did against HK - attack the new ball when it's coming on to bat as new ball doesn't do anything in Dubai, get a head start with top order, then stroll around with the middle order to play out 50 overs and put a goodish total, if not match winning. Now, chasing 275+, regardless of whatever top order do, against a very good fielding unit, at one point chasing side will reach a stage of 7+ asking - then the choking of single starts by MS, using spinners taking pace out of the ball. No matter how many wickets at hand, it's not easy when you are drained of boundary and literally have to live with 5-6 singles every over or inch by inch pressure builds, until it explodes to result couple of wickets - a pair of new batsmen, and the cat & mouse game starts, when most times MS will win.

Come to PAK - can't go for that explosive start because of Banja and Babar; while hack Fakhar has been studied to perfection about his range of shots. You can't, simply can't play ODI cricket with Imam & Babar at top 3 - can't, shouldn't and PAK also won't have done so if there wasn't an issue of blood - apna khoon always thicker than water.

- can't use spinners in middle overs, because these spinners won't get settled batsmen out - if PAK bowls first, often you'll see a 140-150 runs partnership for one of the top 3 wickets, which sets the platform for a 300+ target. Spinners, not for the sake of slow bowling - spinners for the sake of getting set batsman out, which Shadab might do to some extent, that's it; IND has 3, and then they blew PAK Middle order with Jadav guy.

- can't choke teams with 3-4 pacers on these wickets - one selective hit, and you can manage an asking of <6 easily. Ul Haq hasn't given them any spinner, who can bowl tight for 6-7 overs according to field & plan - Shadab is certainly not one, h bowls too many Googly, and south Asian batsmen read leggis from air, not after pitching. Today, Mahmudullah categorically stuck Rashid for 2-3 boundaries & six by slog sweep with the Googly, on a 85 metre ground.

- this "choking" mantra for Sarfraz is to put 5 men on line of inner circle and scream at "soft" targets - why there is a single? This guy looks far better because he replaced Azhar, and because of the teams he had led against. Obviously, milking CT win in UK with 3 pacers at their best won't last long til Asia Cup on a completely different surface.

So, only option left for PAK is to bat first, play "conventional" cricket to put a 270+ score and expect new ball pair take out at least one Indian opener, if not both. Then, somehow reverse swing starts to happen and PAK blows Indian bottom half, larke lenge estyle. This mantra was used in 1956, sorry 1996 and this might be the case in 2056 as well.

Disclaimer: This post is valid for today, 23 SEP 2018. Next time PAK wins again, preferably against BD in 3 days time, I'll write again parsing Sarfraz & Ul Haq - how dynamic & visionary they are.

Bangladesh team needs your analysis and you're wasting it here, they've chosen to bat first. Damn shame :((
 
It's a smart decision to bat first. Teams should be looking to bat first score around 250-270 and then unleash the spinners.

There's a bit of grass on this pitch so let's see how it supports our fast bowlers
 
When Pakistan bowls first or is forced to bowl first, the chance of a Pakistan win goes down by 95%.

Pakistan is world’s worst chasing side.
 
Bangladesh team needs your analysis and you're wasting it here, they've chosen to bat first. Damn shame :((

I hope you have note that 140-150 partnership point - it's happening, from 12/3. Problem for some of you is first thing you notice is my attached flag. I support a team, but don't represent them when I write.

Now come back to troll again, if we do lose this game - which I expect because our Pom Coach has done exactly same thing I hate.
 
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