Will Hashim Amla be the only ATG to retire with an average below 50 or perhaps even 45?

[Dr_Bassim]

As it stands.

Averages 47.23.

Should he even be considered one as rapid as his deterioration is?

Discuss.

 

[Ab Fan]

Sangakkara was the last ATG.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Amla stopped being considered for ATG after his disastrous tour to India in 2015. He was always a choker in ICC tournaments and a minnow basher in general.

Overall extremely overrated player. Not even close to ATG.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Not an ATG for me,A 5 year patch and nothing else.
He has been bad to say the least after 2015.
While ATG's are those players,who even outside of their peak are consistent enough.
Avg of 47+ for openers and 50+ for other batsman is the criteria for ATG,it won't change just to fit amla in.

 

[Rahul1]

He is not an ATG.

 

[pratiktc]

Batting avg is only one criteria. Amla has had seismic impact in winning and drawing away Test series against strong Aus, Eng and India teams. ATG is a very fluid term that means different things to different people but for a good 6-7 yrs he was always in top 5 batters in the world. That is more than special

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Batting avg is only one criteria. Amla has had seismic impact in winning and drawing away Test series against strong Aus, Eng and India teams. ATG is a very fluid term that means different things to different people but for a good 6-7 yrs he was always in top 5 batters in the world. That is more than special

Amla has also been throroughly awful in tons of test series. ATG is not a throwaway term, one of the biggest criterian is longevity, and Amla has spectacularly failed that. His peak was shorter than every ATG batsman post 1970 (not comparing before 70s that due to small sample size of players). South Africa also had peak Steyn and Morkel to win away matches. Many ATGs had great away knocks which didn't win matches due to poor bowling.

Amla has got completely exposed on rank turners. His average in Asia in last 8 tests is < 20. Not even going to talk about ODIs and ICC tourneys. When your failure is as almost many as your success, you are not an ATG.

 

[shaz619]

Inzi and KP averaged below 50 to, big players though. Will judge Amla's ATG status once he calls it a day.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Batting avg is only one criteria. Amla has had seismic impact in winning and drawing away Test series against strong Aus, Eng and India teams. ATG is a very fluid term that means different things to different people but for a good 6-7 yrs he was always in top 5 batters in the world. That is more than special

Impact is given a certain weightage but it's not the be all end all,every Atg has his share of imapct innings but it isn't the only criteria for an atg batsman.
That impact was due to his team being the strongest team,filled with atgs from top to bottom.It is obvious that a batsman in a stronger team will have much more impact than one in a weaker team.
If impact is given so much weightage than i dont think brian lara should be an atg.
If impact is the only criteria than ponting>sachin+dravid+lara.Impact is not a good measure of rating batsman.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Not an ATG for me,A 5 year patch and nothing else.
He has been bad to say the least after 2015.
While ATG's are those players,who even outside of their peak are consistent enough.
Avg of 47+ for openers and 50+ for other batsman is the criteria for ATG,it won't change just to fit amla in.

So the likes of Hanif Mohammad, Inzi, VVS, Mahela, KP, Cook, Crowe, Richie, Bob Simpson arent ATG's as per these cutoffs?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

If he retired back in 2014, he might have been considered one. But he declined rapidly after becoming captain which has continued even after stepping down. Has slowed down, and his reflexes have eluded him.
Has been pretty poor since 2014. It's 4 years of mediocrity. Even Sachin with his prolonged lean spell from 2011 till 2013 which was considered a very long spell wasn't that lengthy if you compare it with Amla's.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Should be batting at no. 5 in Tests. Cant play the new ball in Tests anymore whether its pace or spin.

 

[Hasan123]

He isn't an ATG. Struggled at the start of his career and has declined since 2015. So he has only had 1 brilliant patch but even during that patch he chocked in ICC tournaments.

 

[Xoib]

till 81 tests he was averaging 52.4 and had dominated away tours to Eng,Aus and SA the 3 biggest teams of his era has been a rapid downhill since then he is a South African great but unfortunatley no longer ATG.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Sangakkara was the last ATG.

Not really.

He was about average against top teams as a touring batsman with hardly any memorable knocks. That too in an era batting was booming.

In the 80s, he would be averaging in the low 40s at best.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

So the likes of Hanif Mohammad, Inzi, VVS, Mahela, KP, Cook, Crowe, Richie, Bob Simpson arent ATG's as per these cutoffs?

ya none of them are ATG's.

 

[Brodipet_baadshah]

Firstly he is not an ATG

 

[Titan24]

As it stands.

Averages 47.23.

Should he even be considered one as rapid as his deterioration is?

Discuss.

However he will always be considered a ATG in ODIs

 

[Titan24]

ya none of them are ATG's.

Inzi and KP were ATG players, not specifically to tests. The aura they had and with the ease they played while creating an impact in pressure situations and away series.

They were complete players with good records in both the formats unlike VVS, Mahela, Cook and many others.

 

[Zaz]

Amla isnt ATG Hes a very good batsman Just because a batsman avges around 45-55 that doesnt make him atg as per my opinion of what an atg is

To me an atg is the best of the best, probably a dozen of the greatest batsman ever to play and amla and many others dont fit into that category

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Inzi and KP were ATG players, not specifically to tests. The aura they had and with the ease they played while creating an impact in pressure situations and away series.

They were complete players with good records in both the formats unlike VVS, Mahela, Cook and many others.

I was talking specifically about test matches.
Both Inzi and KP are'nt atg in any format but yes they are borderline atgs .
They are surely ahead of the others if both formats are considered.
AFAIK Being borderline atg in both formats does'nt make a player an atg.

 

[Dulex9]

Classy player and very good but not an atg.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I was talking specifically about test matches.
Both Inzi and KP are'nt atg in any format but yes they are borderline atgs .
They are surely ahead of the others if both formats are considered.
AFAIK Being borderline atg in both formats does'nt make a player an atg.

To many, they are, and it's their opinion. I personally believe Inzi, Kp, Hanif and Crowe are ATGs. Not the GOATs but certainly ATGs. Hanif probably the most underrated opener ever.

 

[Itachi]

People throw the term ATG very loosely as it seems. If inzi, kp become ATG, the I dare say, even rohit, Dhawan, could be considered one.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

People throw the term ATG very loosely as it seems. If inzi, kp become ATG, the I dare say, even rohit, Dhawan, could be considered one.

Yup, an average of 39 and 43 in 25 and 30 tests respectively is comparable with an average of 49 in over 100 Tests.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

ya none of them are ATG's.

if you exclude that one Test Inzi played for World XI, he averages over 50 for PCT.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Yup, an average of 39 and 43 in 25 and 30 tests respectively is comparable with an average of 49 in over 100 Tests.

He was surely talking about odis.

 

[USofA]

People throw the term ATG very loosely as it seems. If inzi, kp become ATG, the I dare say, even rohit, Dhawan, could be considered one.

Heck, there are people who consider Barry Richards an all time great. All based on a grand total of 4 tests. So anything is possible.

 

[Ab Fan]

Not really.

He was about average against top teams as a touring batsman with hardly any memorable knocks. That too in an era batting was booming.

In the 80s, he would be averaging in the low 40s at best.

Then using same logic, Dravid and Kallis are also not ATGs.

Sanga had it easy but he still managed an avg of 57 with over 12 K runs in tests and also kept wickets for 50 matches.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Not an ATG, he had a valid case an year ago but his decline has been too steep.

 

[Ab Fan]

Bhaijaan, you are underrating Sangakkara. He has hit 11 double hundreds overall in his 136 tests career.

2 vs SA
3 vs Pak
1 vs Ind
1 vs NZ
3 vs Ban
1 vs Zim

Exclude minnows, it is still 7. Even in shorter format, he dominated the 2015 WC the way not many batsmen have done. He has chased down 300+ totals in conditions like New Zealand, England and Australia. He may not be a great keeper but still keeping does take a bit on batting and he did that for 50 tests.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

He was surely talking about odis.

Rohit has a good chance of becoming an Indian Great in LOI's by the time he retires. Although Tendulkar, Ganguly, Kohli, Dhoni, Dravid have set the bar way too high for India as India has always been a batting powerhouse since Gavaskar as far as i know.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Bhaijaan, you are underrating Sangakkara. He has hit 11 double hundreds overall in his 136 tests career.

2 vs SA
3 vs Pak
1 vs Ind
1 vs NZ
3 vs Ban
1 vs Zim

Exclude minnows, it is still 7. Even in shorter format, he dominated the 2015 WC the way not many batsmen have done. He has chased down 300+ totals in conditions like New Zealand, England and Australia. He may not be a great keeper but still keeping does take a bit on batting and he did that for 50 tests.

Please Dont talk about 2015 world cup. Everyone feasted on those pitches. Gayle hit a double. Guptil hit 230 something. Even your Bhaijaan woukd have hit a hundred there. He had none before 2015 in previous 3 workd cups thats how average he was or has been as an ODI player. Dilshan was for years the best LOI player by far in that Lankan team eith numbers and impact both.

I respect his numbers but they are deceiving.

Against top nations as a touring batsman he was just about okay. Didnt really set the world on fire withchis batting ever. He was never the most popular batsman in the world throughout his career and that tells everything.

Odd people might end up picking even Sehwag in an ATG team not many are picking him over Gilchrist as the keeper batsman and he certainly doesn't make it as a specialist.

Bhaijaan

 

[Sachin136]

Rohit has a good chance of becoming an Indian Great in LOI's by the time he retires. Although Tendulkar, Ganguly, Kohli, Dhoni, Dravid have set the bar way too high for India as India has always been a batting powerhouse since Gavaskar as far as i know.

Rohit has passed Ganguly and Dravid in ODIs.

 

[Ab Fan]

Please Dont talk about 2015 world cup. Everyone feasted on those pitches. Gayle hit a double. Guptil hit 230 something. Even your Bhaijaan woukd have hit a hundred there. He had none before 2015 in previous 3 workd cups thats how average he was or has been as an ODI player. Dilshan was for years the best LOI player by far in that Lankan team eith numbers and impact both.

I respect his numbers but they are deceiving.

Against top nations as a touring batsman he was just about okay. Didnt really set the world on fire withchis batting ever. He was never the most popular batsman in the world throughout his career and that tells everything.

Odd people might end up picking even Sehwag in an ATG team not many are picking him over Gilchrist as the keeper batsman and he certainly doesn't make it as a specialist.

Bhaijaan

Bhaijaan, you are missing one point. He was the leading run-scorer by a fair margin in that WC. Everyone could score but he scored the most. That's what matters and he even played 2 less games. Dilshan, Jayasuriya and de Silva were obviously better in ODIs.

Coming to tests, Bhaijaan, but then applying the same logic, Dravid and Kallis didnt set the world on fire either.

Sangakkara has double hundreds against an attack having Steyn/Pollock and Ntini. He has a double hundred and several other hundreds against chucking Ajmal. He has a 200 in NZ vs Boult and Southee and a 150 as well there. A 192 at Hobart where he got close to winning a game for Sri Lanka in Australian conditions but was given wrong decision by umpire.

Bhaijaan is loved everywhere but this is a wrong treatment given by our Bhaijaan to a certain player in my view, Bhaijaan.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Bhaijaan, you are missing one point. He was the leading run-scorer by a fair margin in that WC. Everyone could score but he scored the most. That's what matters and he even played 2 less games. Dilshan, Jayasuriya and de Silva were obviously better in ODIs.

Coming to tests, Bhaijaan, but then applying the same logic, Dravid and Kallis didnt set the world on fire either.

Sangakkara has double hundreds against an attack having Steyn/Pollock and Ntini. He has a double hundred and several other hundreds against chucking Ajmal. He has a 200 in NZ vs Boult and Southee and a 150 as well there. A 192 at Hobart where he got close to winning a game for Sri Lanka in Australian conditions but was given wrong decision by umpire.

Bhaijaan is loved everywhere but this is a wrong treatment given by our Bhaijaan to a certain player in my view, Bhaijaan.

Bhaijaan appreciates your respect for him. Feeling is mutual but being nice doesnt mean he can be easy and throw the ATG tag as if it doesnt mean much. Kallis and Dravid are slightly above Sangakkara but they are all behind Ponting and well behind the league of Tendulkar and Lara.

When Bhaijaan thinks of ATG batsmen he simply closes his eyes and imagines the player in the Bodyline test series or against Lillee/Thommo or against West Indian pace quartet or against Indian spin quartet or against Imran or Hadlee. If he cant see the batsman doninating those or averaging 45 with ease then ATG tag cant be handed out.

 

[silentkiller187]

great player yes, ATG no.

 

[New Yorker]

He is not an ATG.

Yet his career best ICC points score puts him above Sachin. Dravid, Waugh, Miandad and Border, to name a few.

For those slating Sanga, he is at no 7 on the all time list, above Richards, Sobers and Hayden, to name a few.

Poor Inzi is at no 61.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Yet his career best ICC points score puts him above Sachin. Dravid, Waugh, Miandad and Border, to name a few.

For those slating Sanga, he is at no 7 on the all time list, above Richards, Sobers and Hayden, to name a few.

Poor Inzi is at no 61.

So? Peak ratings don't mean much. ATG is far more than just peak ratings. What is Amla's rating now? He fell off the cliff real hard.

 

[Justcrazy]

Amla was never that top tier talent , but he overachieved considering the amount of talent he had.