What's new

Will History consider the Americans as having been defeated in Afghanistan?

Savak

World Star
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Runs
50,148
Post of the Week
3
I wonder what can the American's really consider having achieved in Afghanistan after their twenty year occupation? In these twenty years, they couldn't even leave behind a stable reliable well trained Army and Air Force. Their puppet regime collapsed within a week of their withdrawal.

The USSR with drew from Afghanistan in 1988 but their regime was able to last till 1992.

So much for the American millitary might, lost in Vietnam, Lost in Iraq, Lost in Afghanistan, ran from Somalia after experiencing Moghadishu. What good is all this million dollar equipment, protective gear if you end up losing to people with $5-10 equipment.

Pathetic
 
They were there to eliminate Al Qaeda and its remnants which I think they have achieved over 2 decades. I mean no major terrorist attack on American soil. That's how American mentality works. They were successful in that regard. They are leaving Afghanistan on their own terms. They could be there forever if they want to but they have already destroyed Alqaeda so they are pretty okay with their performance.
 
Much of history is distored.

It would be foolish for Americans, Brits, Indians or others not to accept this is a defeat.

Afghanistan is one of the poorest nations on Earth. Over 40 of the worlds most powerful military forces in history invaded this country without giving the ruling powers any proof their land was used to fly planes into buildings.

Afghan villages were wiped out. Children blown up while sleeping or praying in mosques. Cluster munitions destroying vasts landscapes. Guns pointed at schoolkids. Their parents kidnapped at night. The war crimes of the invaders is endless.

True history will remember this as one of the greatest victories and one of the biggest defeats since humans arrived on this planet.

Moral of the story - Stay out of other peoples countries, stop occupying people. They are not the terrorists, you are for invading and occupying.
 
They were there to eliminate Al Qaeda and its remnants which I think they have achieved over 2 decades. I mean no major terrorist attack on American soil. That's how American mentality works. They were successful in that regard. They are leaving Afghanistan on their own terms. They could be there forever if they want to but they have already destroyed Alqaeda so they are pretty okay with their performance.

Maybe you werent born in 2001.

Bush, the US and its allies claimed the aim was to defeat the Taliban, take them out of power so they couldnt return. Bush even stated this was almost done after a few months.

Yanks have left embarrased having wasted the lives of 1000;s of their own soldiers in this immoral war.

Perhaps you can ask Modi to send in Indian troops now?
 
Eh, I'm not sure.

The US shouldn't have been in Afghanistan, but they were there, so they should have established an exit strategy to stop this from happening. Regardless, the situation is dire, and my heart goes out to the Afghan people.
 
Perhaps you can ask Modi to send in Indian troops now?

Why is it Modi’s problem?

As far as losses are concerned, India has issues with China but the mutual trade between the 2 countries is something smaller countries can’t even comprehend. India does what benefits them. Fighting in Afghanistan is a futile exercise. Sure if Taliban meddle in India they will be dealt with but for that they have to come via Pakistan and that would be a bigger headache for Pakistan a country struggling with sanctions, extremism and financial debt to be in cahoots with Taliban. India can afford to can sit back and bide their time. Obviously heartbreaking to see the struggle of common Afghan folk but at the end of the day, gotta look out for yourself first.
 
Yes this is a humiliating defeat. When Soviets left Afghanistan their puppet government lasted 2 years. In this case, the puppet government fell 16 days before the US left.
 
Maybe you werent born in 2001.

Bush, the US and its allies claimed the aim was to defeat the Taliban, take them out of power so they couldnt return. Bush even stated this was almost done after a few months.

Yanks have left embarrased having wasted the lives of 1000;s of their own soldiers in this immoral war.

Perhaps you can ask Modi to send in Indian troops now?

It is peanuts in comparison to losing 5000 American lives in a terrorist attack. In Afghanistan, everyone carries a name tag that suggests that " I am Taliban". ??? Of course, they were there to destroy Alqaeda and they were pretty successful in achieving that. Anti-india rhetoric does not change the facts on ground. As a Pakistani living in Germany and getting local education is allowing me to go beneath the surface of every issue and therefore do not take lies as facts. If as a Pakistani that's what makes you happy good for you. Good luck Taliban for defeating America after 20 years hopefully you guys do not kill girls for going to school.
 
Last edited:
Why is it Modi’s problem?

As far as losses are concerned, India has issues with China but the mutual trade between the 2 countries is something smaller countries can’t even comprehend. India does what benefits them. Fighting in Afghanistan is a futile exercise. Sure if Taliban meddle in India they will be dealt with but for that they have to come via Pakistan and that would be a bigger headache for Pakistan a country struggling with sanctions, extremism and financial debt to be in cahoots with Taliban. India can afford to can sit back and bide their time. Obviously heartbreaking to see the struggle of common Afghan folk but at the end of the day, gotta look out for yourself first.

This is an ignorant Indians dream the Taliban will be a headache for Pakistan. Modi and his army know the Taliban are no threat to Pakistan, never have been. On the contrary with them in control India cannot launch terrorist attacks into Pakistan.

This is a huge strategic loss to India, or do you think your media & politicans are mourning for nothing?

Nato couldnt do it but the Saffron army might? Give it a go lads.
 
It is peanuts in comparison to losing 5000 American lives in a terrorist attack. In Afghanistan, everyone carries a name tag that suggests that " I am Taliban". ??? Of course, they were there to destroy Alqaeda and they were pretty successful in achieving that. Anti-india rhetoric does not change the facts on ground. As a Pakistani living in Germany and getting local education is allowing me to go beneath the surface of every issue and therefore do not take lies as facts. If as a Pakistani that's what makes you happy good for you. Good luck Taliban for defeating America after 20 years hopefully you guys do not kill girls for going to school.

The Taliban dont rape schoolgirls as Indian troops do. Let not confuse them with IOK soldiers.

Even if you take the official story of who Al-Qaeda is, according to the Yanks they have evovled into ISIS who are according to them will be back in Afghanistan.

People can keep stabbing the dark looking for something to show Yanks havent been defeated but even they know they lost.
 
Lol, a lot of Pakistani's are celebrating this as a huge victory for Pakistan, ISI and a huge slap on the faces of the Indians who had designs to use Afghanistan as a sattelite state against Pakistan. Pakistan has secured Balochistan in one stroke.
 
Lol, a lot of Pakistani's are celebrating this as a huge victory for Pakistan, ISI and a huge slap on the faces of the Indians who had designs to use Afghanistan as a sattelite state against Pakistan. Pakistan has secured Balochistan in one stroke.

Its huge for Pakistan. When the likes of Zardari and Nawaz were in power, they were selling out the country, helping Indians and others to destroy it.

Once IK came in, the military knew they could rely on him. Drone attacks stopped, the Taliban were made stronger and Americans were told to pack up & Leave.

Its was a genius from Pakistan. Now in history Pakistan has helped to defeat two superpowers in Afghanistan.

Next step is for Pak and China to invest, take advantage of the location, natural resources & to help the Afghans to improve their lives. Something which the Yanks and Indians didnt care for
 
Its huge for Pakistan. When the likes of Zardari and Nawaz were in power, they were selling out the country, helping Indians and others to destroy it.

Once IK came in, the military knew they could rely on him. Drone attacks stopped, the Taliban were made stronger and Americans were told to pack up & Leave.

Its was a genius from Pakistan. Now in history Pakistan has helped to defeat two superpowers in Afghanistan.

Next step is for Pak and China to invest, take advantage of the location, natural resources & to help the Afghans to improve their lives. Something which the Yanks and Indians didnt care for

Imran khan in the coming years will be lauded as a absolute genius.
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/americas-longest-war-20-years-missteps-afghanistan-2021-08-16/

America's longest war is nearing its end, with a loss to the enemy it defeated in Afghanistan nearly 20 years ago, shock that the government and military it supported collapsed so quickly and chaotic eleventh-hour evacuation operations.

And now, the 20th anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and Washington will be marked with the Taliban back in power.

“This hasn’t been a 20-year war. It’s been one-year wars fought 20 times,” said a U.S. military official to convey the frustration with short-term thinking, multiple missteps and a lack of consistency over four administrations.

Interviews with nearly a dozen current and former U.S. officials and experts highlighted the failures that crippled U.S. efforts to stabilize Afghanistan that saw Washington spend more than $1 trillion and more than 2,400 American service members and tens of thousands of Afghans die, many of them civilians.

Two Republican and two Democratic administrations struggled to fight corruption and human rights abuses even while acquiescing to much of them as they sought to nurture democracy and rule of law, build a strong Afghan military and keep war-weary Americans engaged.

They promoted a powerful central government in a country where for centuries the tribes enjoyed local autonomy. Their drug eradication programs further antagonized people in the Taliban's rural strongholds who rely on opium poppy cultivation to survive.

Intelligence shortcomings also weighed, including last week when U.S. President Joe Biden's administration anticipated it would take a few months for the Taliban to enter Kabul. They took just a few days.

There were some undeniable successes.

The United States and its partners helped improve countless lives in one of the world's poorest countries, advancing the rights of women and girls, supporting independent media, and building schools, hospitals and roads.

All of that is now under threat.

DISTRACTED BY IRAQ

President George W. Bush declared a “war on terror” and toppled the Taliban government in Kabul who had hosted al Qaeda militants responsible for the 2001 hijacked plane attacks. The strategy worked. For a while. The Taliban were routed and al Qaeda sent fleeing.

But former officials and experts said that instead of working to secure Afghanistan against a resurgence of the Taliban, the Bush administration diverted resources, personnel and time to invading Iraq on the erroneous claim that Saddam Hussein's authoritarian government had illicit weapons of mass destruction programs.

"The United States did become distracted by the war in Iraq for several years," said Lisa Curtis, a former CIA analyst and regional expert who served in the Bush and Trump presidencies and now is a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security.

“It was the right thing to do to overthrow the Taliban ... Unfortunately, shortly after we routed the Taliban, then more attention began going toward the war in Iraq,” Curtis said.

Current and former officials say the Bush administration’s obsession with Iraq left its Afghanistan strategy adrift.

“Were we actually trying to help build and reform this nation (Afghanistan) or are we just trying to get out?” said Jonathan Schroden, an expert at the CNA policy institute, who served as an adviser to U.S. Central Command.

When President Barack Obama came into office in 2009, the mixed messaging continued.

He was looking to reduce U.S. forces in Afghanistan but agreed to a surge in a bid to pressure the Taliban into peace talks. In a speech at West Point in November 2009, he said he would send an additional 30,000 troops, but added that “after 18 months, our troops will begin to come home."

In seeking to placate his domestic audience, Obama effectively told the Taliban that they could wait out the United States.

ENDEMIC CORRUPTION

As a presidential nominee, Obama called Afghanistan the “good war,” contrasting it with the military disaster in Iraq.

U.S. troop levels swelled to over 90,000 by 2010, as did the funding.

In the desperate and constant need for a stable government, the United States worked with Afghans who had influence but were enmeshed in corruption and human rights abuses.

Peter Galbraith, a former U.S. ambassador who served as deputy U.N. representative for Afghanistan, said U.S. counter-insurgency doctrine stressed the need for a “local partner.”

That led the United States, the United Nations, and other countries to legitimize successive Afghan governments, effectively accepting pervasive corruption even as they promoted anti-corruption efforts.

That policy, he said, is illustrated by the blessings Washington, other countries, and the United Nations conferred on the 2009, 2014 and 2019 presidential elections despite knowing of massive fraud and other irregularities.

“We don't have the tool kit to root out endemic corruption in societies,” a former senior government official told Reuters, on condition of anonymity.

Corruption infected the Afghan military as well, for which the United States allocated $88 billion over two decades.

For example, the United States never fully overcame the problem of "ghost soldiers," non-existent troops listed on rosters by crooked commanders who took their pay.

So while the Afghan security forces have 300,000 troops on paper, the actual number is much lower. A 2016 report by a U.S. government watchdog found that in Helmand province alone, about 40 to 50 percent of the security forces did not exist.

THE PAKISTAN ISSUE

Current and former U.S. officials say that the Taliban would not have won had successive U.S. administrations acted to end the sanctuary and other support that Pakistan and its Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency gave the insurgents.

“Without Pakistan, the Taliban would simply be a nuisance,” said Christine Fair, a Georgetown University expert on the Pakistani military. “They would not be a competent fighting force.”

Islamabad repeatedly has denied backing the Taliban as part of what experts say is a strategy to secure an allied government in Afghanistan to blunt India’s influence.

WAR WEARY PUBLIC

President Donald Trump came into office in 2017 pledging to end what he called “ridiculous endless wars.”

In part, Trump’s calculus was that Americans simply did not care enough about Afghanistan to spend billions of dollars annually as American troops died.

It led to a deal with the Taliban in February 2020 for a complete withdrawal of U.S. troops if the insurgents met certain conditions. The Afghan government was cut out of the talks.

John Bolton, a veteran of the Bush and Trump presidencies, told Reuters that the agreement was Trump's biggest blunder and that Biden should have re-evaluated it.

Biden, however, proceeded with a complete withdrawal against the advice of U.S. military leaders and without sorting out a backlog of special visa applications from Afghans at risk because they worked for the U.S. government, leading to a chaotic evacuation operation.

He had grown skeptical of the military effort in Afghanistan after a 2009 trip to Kabul that convinced him that the United States was trapped in an unwinnable war.

A U.S. official told Reuters on condition of anonymity that internal polling showed that most Americans supported a withdrawal, making Biden comfortable in his decision.

An Ipsos poll in April confirmed that a majority of Americans supported Biden.

What remains unclear is how Americans will view Biden's decision after TV images of U.S. military helicopters evacuating the U.S. embassy and Afghans swarming the airport, desperate to leave.

Biden insisted Kabul would be no repeat of the infamous U.S. evacuation from Saigon in 1975.

“There’s going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States in Afghanistan," Biden said in July.
 
Depends what the original goal was.

USA was there to eliminate Al Qaeda, because Taliban had decided to host the Al Qaeda leaders in their country. USA kept asking Mullah Omar to take action which he did not and after 9/11 they decided to carpet bomb the country.

Eventually Bin laden was found in Pakistan and they were able to eliminate major targets in Pakistan and Afghanistan

The mission was a success as the terrorist were not able to attack USA ever again.

But the presence of USA in Afghanistan said otherwise. They were there to probably train the Afghan army and make sure it could stand to any intervention. Yet it failed.

The loss is on Afghanistan, the joke will continue that it goes not have an army that could protect it.
 
Imran khan in the coming years will be lauded as a absolute genius.

IK was instrumental in the freedom of Afghanistan. He told the Taliban they will be helped with investment, Pak will help them being recognised and helped forge ties between China-Afghanistan.

Mainstream media are still spewing propaganda but we all know this was in general a bloodless take over of Kabul. This

Its a shame Covid19 arrived which halted Pakistans progress under IK. But with things improving , no more war next door, you will see Godwilling Pakistan become a strong economic and military nation in the years to come.
 
Its sad that Pakistan has aligned itself with Taliban, only more problems are to be faced for this country. In terms of terrorism and hate.

THere is no use of getting Taliban support when we will be getting hate by the Afghanis for the years to come.

Wonder how much of an influence our very own puppet had in this whole show.

Would be interesting to see what more sanctions would be imposed on us.
 
Its sad that Pakistan has aligned itself with Taliban, only more problems are to be faced for this country. In terms of terrorism and hate.

THere is no use of getting Taliban support when we will be getting hate by the Afghanis for the years to come.

Wonder how much of an influence our very own puppet had in this whole show.

Would be interesting to see what more sanctions would be imposed on us.

It was Zardari and NS the criminals and traitors who were helping the Indians and Afg puppets to stage terrorist attacks in Pak. Those days are gone and jobs for their boys are gone too, Time you accept this now.

Most nations will recognise the Taliban, its part of the deal.
 
It was Zardari and NS the criminals and traitors who were helping the Indians and Afg puppets to stage terrorist attacks in Pak. Those days are gone and jobs for their boys are gone too, Time you accept this now.

Most nations will recognise the Taliban, its part of the deal.

It was the isi helping and safe guarding al qaeda.

And it was undr imran khan ehsanullah was able to run away.

Talibam will get acceptance depending upon how they treat their people. And history suggests they are gonna be human rights violations.

The ******* ended up freeing everyone ftom jail.

A rapist a murderer is now roaming freely.
 
The UN-mandated 39-nation ISAF mission and 36-nation Resolute Support mission succeeded, insofar as their objectives were to build Afghanistan’s security forces and install institutions.

Sadly the institutions were riddled with corruption and the security forces were not fit for purpose when tested.

Afghanistan will probably come under China’s influence now.
 
It was the isi helping and safe guarding al qaeda.

And it was undr imran khan ehsanullah was able to run away.

Talibam will get acceptance depending upon how they treat their people. And history suggests they are gonna be human rights violations.

The ******* ended up freeing everyone ftom jail.

A rapist a murderer is now roaming freely.

Which Al-Qaeda? lol They claimed anyone with a beard and a gun was Al-Qaeda so they could justify this immorall disgusting invasion.

Pakistan will be safer. Imran has destroyed the TTP, no more drones, almost end of the terrorists in Balochistan.

Now we should try the Zardari and Nawaz and all those corrupt who worked for them in embassies abroad with treason.
 
The Afghan Taliban are descendent of Afghan lords, dating back 400 years. These were the same tribal lords that fought the British, and declared Afghan independence there after. If we look at history, it was easy for powers to enter Afghanistan, but difficult to leave. One thing afghans don’t tolerate is change to their culture and disrespect to their women (I am talking about prostitution, rape, etc. that outside forces may do in history). They also don’t accept any puppet as well and we saw that in history too when Shah Shujah was appointment by the British, and resistance took place there after from dost Muhammad and his tribal lords.

Now let’s not ignore this history and only remember 1996-2001 only when we talk about Taliban. They’ve always been tribal lords and elders of Taliban are the one who rule Afghanistan, give or take a Persian king here and there. Now if we say that Afghanistan “broke through the shackles” after 20 years of outsider ruling, is that really incorrect ?
 
The UN-mandated 39-nation ISAF mission and 36-nation Resolute Support mission succeeded, insofar as their objectives were to build Afghanistan’s security forces and install institutions.

Sadly the institutions were riddled with corruption and the security forces were not fit for purpose when tested.

Afghanistan will probably come under China’s influence now.

So they succeeded or failed, make up your mind. lol

Yanks or Brits dont care about Afghans, we both know this. It was an imperial conquest to help the military industrial complex, use the land to attack Pakistan and to take out drugs as they did before in South Asia. Bush stated clearly the mission was to take out the Taliban, they are stronger than before, a huge failure. Time to accept this Robert, put your western bias to one side and wish the new government the best.
 
Why? Taliban couldn't gain an entry till American forces were present.

Americans should had retreated after killing OBL 10 years ago, now they have allowed China to have another ally.
 
So they succeeded or failed, make up your mind. lol

Yanks or Brits dont care about Afghans, we both know this. It was an imperial conquest to help the military industrial complex, use the land to attack Pakistan and to take out drugs as they did before in South Asia. Bush stated clearly the mission was to take out the Taliban, they are stronger than before, a huge failure. Time to accept this Robert, put your western bias to one side and wish the new government the best.


That’s a gross oversimplification. Dozens of nations deployed troops in support of the Alliance and some sent more troops than Britain.

I cannot wish the best to a medieval theocracy which oppresses women. I just wish UK would take more refugees.

I can’t think why anyone in “the West” would want to attack Pakistan, that seems like paranoia.
 
It was the isi helping and safe guarding al qaeda.

And it was undr imran khan ehsanullah was able to run away.

Talibam will get acceptance depending upon how they treat their people. And history suggests they are gonna be human rights violations.

The ******* ended up freeing everyone ftom jail.

A rapist a murderer is now roaming freely.

US made Pakistan release Baradar
 
That’s a gross oversimplification. Dozens of nations deployed troops in support of the Alliance and some sent more troops than Britain.

I cannot wish the best to a medieval theocracy which oppresses women. I just wish UK would take more refugees.

I can’t think why anyone in “the West” would want to attack Pakistan, that seems like paranoia.

Brits dont give a damn about Afghan women or children. British have been in Afghanistan before, they killed and raped then, now they just killed and bombed thousands of innocent people. Invasion had nothing to do with womens rights otherwise Saudi Arabia would be the first to be invaded.

Pakistan is the only Muslim nation with nukes. It cannot be ivaded like Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Sudan, Afghanistan etc. CIA had dozens of offices on the border, training terrorists with India to attack. This has failed too.

Afghans or Taliban are not the bad guys, the boots from the imperial west are. Its time they stopped invading other nations, its disgusting state terrorism which makes Al-Qaeda look like the tellytubbies.
 
They achieved their primary goal of defeating Al-Qaeda and avenging 9/11.
They failed in their secondary goal of uprooting Taliban who supported the Al-Qaeda.

The failure will cost them in the long run given Chinese and Russian interests in Afghanistan to use it for transit, resources and market access/connectivity.

Americans will be back - matter of time. Pakistan will have another opportunity to milk the Afghan cow.
 
Last edited:
Brits dont give a damn about Afghan women or children. British have been in Afghanistan before, they killed and raped then, now they just killed and bombed thousands of innocent people. Invasion had nothing to do with womens rights otherwise Saudi Arabia would be the first to be invaded.

Pakistan is the only Muslim nation with nukes. It cannot be ivaded like Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Sudan, Afghanistan etc. CIA had dozens of offices on the border, training terrorists with India to attack. This has failed too.

Afghans or Taliban are not the bad guys, the boots from the imperial west are. Its time they stopped invading other nations, its disgusting state terrorism which makes Al-Qaeda look like the tellytubbies.

Plenty of us do, just read the Twitter feeds of British progressives. Don’t judge us by the sins of our great-grandfathers.
 
Plenty of us do, just read the Twitter feeds of British progressives. Don’t judge us by the sins of our great-grandfathers.

I was referring to the government, its always the government and military. As for the public, sure many do but still a small %, less than 5 imo.

This defeat will set the way for the US empire on the road to decline. US is broke, divided and hated by most of the world. China is the future now, its time for the UK to work closer with China and shelve their slavery mentality towards USA and Zionism.
 
Plenty of us do, just read the Twitter feeds of British progressives. Don’t judge us by the sins of our great-grandfathers.

Kingkhan is right robert

Its a simple smokescreen that the west main aim was about human rights and promoting democracy in afghanistan

Theyve overthrown many legitimate elected govts and have been in bed with dozens of dictators and racists regimes like for eg the sauds and israel

Its all about self serving their own financial and political interests Whilst fooling joe public
 
Last edited:
Man, I wonder why no one spoke for "women and children" when USA were throwing bombs with their drones on hospitals, schools and weddings...

Not a rhetorical question, or me try to be a smartass... I genuinely want to know why people selectively care about when they want to...

What about Palestinian "children and women"; the way Zionist Nazis are forcing them to live in open air jails with chronic PTSD... What about that?! Again, not a rhetorical question.

Y'all are a bunch of bigot hypocrites who lack basic human morality. That's how y'all truly are.
 
Man, I wonder why no one spoke for "women and children" when USA were throwing bombs with their drones on hospitals, schools and weddings...

Not a rhetorical question, or me try to be a smartass... I genuinely want to know why people selectively care about when they want to...

What about Palestinian "children and women"; the way Zionist Nazis are forcing them to live in open air jails with chronic PTSD... What about that?! Again, not a rhetorical question.

Y'all are a bunch of bigot hypocrites who lack basic human morality. That's how y'all truly are.

Yet you would prefer living in UK or N. America and not in Afghanistan especially a Taliban led one.
 
From a geographic point of view USA is isolated and hence they have been able to afford multiple blunders like Vietnam, Korea and Afghanistan.

The way USA have fled the scene and abandoned their puppets is a warning to those who choose to serve the American agenda...

 
Much of history is distored.

It would be foolish for Americans, Brits, Indians or others not to accept this is a defeat.

Afghanistan is one of the poorest nations on Earth. Over 40 of the worlds most powerful military forces in history invaded this country without giving the ruling powers any proof their land was used to fly planes into buildings.

Afghan villages were wiped out. Children blown up while sleeping or praying in mosques. Cluster munitions destroying vasts landscapes. Guns pointed at schoolkids. Their parents kidnapped at night. The war crimes of the invaders is endless.

True history will remember this as one of the greatest victories and one of the biggest defeats since humans arrived on this planet.

Moral of the story - Stay out of other peoples countries, stop occupying people. They are not the terrorists, you are for invading and occupying.

Honestly that's the saddest thing Ive ever heard. Villages were bombed, countless women and children will killed (at times deliberately) by the allied forces in Afghanistan, all for what? An Allegation that OBL masterminded the planes' hijacking into WTC. Me along with numerous Gen Z and Millennials in the western world still wonder where the proof was for all of this.

Suddenly voices are coming out that women won't be given rights under Taliban. I wonder where those people were when the US and NATO forces were bombing the crap out of several villages, which included women as well.
Personally, from what I have research, this Taliban will have different laws when compared to the Taliban of the 90s. We have to realize these are ethnic Afghans, the tribal lords and leaders of Afghanistan. They have been living there for generations. If they find investments from China, I see Afghanistan no different than Saudi, where the laws are absolutely identical. Taliban has realize the importance of China and regional connectivity. I think this time, they mean business (literally).

Even in Kabul, the deaths that occurred happened in an area controlled by US, and it was US army personal firing at Afghans. This is the reward people of Kabul get after years of loyalty.
 
Yet you would prefer living in UK or N. America and not in Afghanistan especially a Taliban led one.

This is a lazy argument and typical ad hominem.

Now that we are at it: you should stay away from giving opinions on geopolitics. First the 200+ million of you need to stop oppressing 950+ million of souls. Just take a look at your society and see how sick it is. Many of you can't even realize that. Your nation is built on casteism and your country runs on hate.
 
Last edited:
Yes they have been comprehensively defeated and whats worse for them is that no other country will ever trust a puppet that is backed and installed by the US after seeing the way that their man in charge fled.

However, this is one of the wars where there is no real victor and just misery for most parties.

Pakistan has lost countless amount of lives and been damaged massively. They can cheerlead all we want about destroying India's influence but at what cost? The much vaunted security establishments who take up so much of their nation's resources were caught with their pants down time and time again.

India's investment may have went to waste but there is significant amount of goodwill among the ordinary Afghan. Under the Taliban there is probably no hope of cashing this goodwill in. India is pretty much surrounded by hostile countries especially if China gets a foothold in Afghanistan.

NATO/USA - Badly damaged. Spent money/resources/lost lives and got nothing in return.

The "victors" are probably China/Russia/Iran who have spent nothing but gained a lot.
 
It wasn't a defeat. America could've wiped out Afghanistan but held back for moralistic reasons. We could've turned it into the next Hawaii with American settlers taking place of the extinct natives. :afridi
 
Watch this decade old interview of General Hamid Gull. The great man is literally predicting what occurred in July and August of 2021...

The host gets a bit cringe but I guess this is the theme of the show considering the name "Gustakhi Muaaf" (pardon my french):

 
This is a lazy and typical ad hominem.

Now that we are at it: you should stay away from geopolitics. First the 200+ million of you need to stop oppressing 950+ million of souls. Just take a look at your society and see how sick it is. Many of you can't even realize that. Your nation is built on casteism and your country runs on hate.

And Pakistan runs on love,honesty and truth?

Now if you truly beleive yes, then don’t even bother with the rest of my post

Which country doesn’t have issues?

Keeping india and Pakistan aside, Anyways if my pick is between the so called oppressing west where I live and the Taliban, 11/10 times I would pick the west. Are you fin kidding me if that is even a choice.

So no there is no hypocrisy in people cheering for the people against the Taliban
 
Last edited:
Watch this decade old interview of General Hamid Gull. The great man is literally predicting what occurred in July and August of 2021...

The host gets a bit cringe but I guess this is the theme of the show considering the name "Gustakhi Muaaf" (pardon my french):


this guy was the biggest ********* and he is responsible for the deaths of the Afghanis. Its a shame that Pakistanis held this guy in prestige when the fact is he was the worst thing ever.

he openly admitted that he was involved in the downfall of the civilian govts. A traitor
 
Yet you would prefer living in UK or N. America and not in Afghanistan especially a Taliban led one.

If the UK or US was invaded, occupied, destroyed numerous times by brown people from a far away land for the last 150 years, no person of colour would dare living there.

History of Afghanistan is a complex issue, you cannnot throw around lazy weak and unintelligent arguments like this.
 
Americans went to Afghanistan, defeated Taliban, made Taliban retreat to mountains, stayed for 20 years, killed OBL and finally went back on by their own decision. Nobody defeated them and forced them to leave.

This is like saying India defeated British empire as Britain finally had to leave by their own decision.

So explain how Taliban defeated USA?
 
Americans went to Afghanistan, defeated Taliban, made Taliban retreat to mountains, stayed for 20 years, killed OBL and finally went back on by their own decision. Nobody defeated them and forced them to leave.

This is like saying India defeated British empire as Britain finally had to leave by their own decision.

So explain how Taliban defeated USA?

Even a child knows but sure. Bush stated the Taliban must go, also they are almost finished. Taliban didnt run off to the mountains lol. They continued to control half of the country, until last 5 years much more. US and Brits most of the time couldnt fight fire with fire, so called in air strikes, like cowards. Taliban would regroup and attack again. Eventually your heros couldnt take the losses, decided to leave. Their plan to oust the Taliban failed, they lost the war and their enemy is stronger than ever.
 
Well the usa nato used the afghan army like the Kurds as cannon fodder.

Only the Kurds were successful against isis in Syria and secured an autonomous area in the North.

But the ana got smashed for years with high casualties, desertion and ghost troops.
 
Even a child knows but sure. Bush stated the Taliban must go, also they are almost finished. Taliban didnt run off to the mountains lol. They continued to control half of the country, until last 5 years much more. US and Brits most of the time couldnt fight fire with fire, so called in air strikes, like cowards. Taliban would regroup and attack again. Eventually your heros couldnt take the losses, decided to leave. Their plan to oust the Taliban failed, they lost the war and their enemy is stronger than ever.

Taliban controlled rural areas which no foreign power cares. They only care about cities and economic centers which US and its allies along with Afghan Army ruled until US decided they do not want to be in Afghanistan anymore.

This is no defeat of USA unless you are some deluded individual. Regaining lost territory after the enemy loses interest is not called victory for Taliban by war.
 
Taliban controlled rural areas which no foreign power cares. They only care about cities and economic centers which US and its allies along with Afghan Army ruled until US decided they do not want to be in Afghanistan anymore.

This is no defeat of USA unless you are some deluded individual. Regaining lost territory after the enemy loses interest is not called victory for Taliban by war.

You are clueless and very delusional.

They cared enough to try to take many towns and villages under the control of the resistance. Even Kabul was attacked weekly in the last 20 years.

Again the aim was clear, Taliban must be defeated and come to an end forever. Yanks ran off, Taliban are sitting in the Presidential palace sipping on green tea while holding AK47's.

Of course as an Indian you are upset & cannot fathom reality.
 
American's have suffered a massive defeat. The idea was to westernise Afghanistan then remain there forever to keep an eye on Pak and China. Taliban won with the help of ISI let that be known. American soldiers did not know what they were fighting, before being physically defeated they lost the war mentally. Indian screams can be heard on every channel loud and clear, they are holding Pakistan responsible for America's defeat. If this is true then Pak has defeated a superpower:afridi!

The late General Hamid Mir years back predicted this outcome. I have just seen a video of Pak soldiers dancing at America and India's defeat.
 
Taliban controlled rural areas which no foreign power cares. They only care about cities and economic centers which US and its allies along with Afghan Army ruled until US decided they do not want to be in Afghanistan anymore.

This is no defeat of USA unless you are some deluded individual. Regaining lost territory after the enemy loses interest is not called victory for Taliban by war.

Then by your logic the US did not lose the Vietnam war, and everyone who thinks that is deluded. Which must make the entire world deluded.

And in Vietnam it was 2 years after the US left did the South Vietnamese government fall. In Afghanistan the govt fell 16 days before the US was supposed to leave.
 
Even a child knows but sure. Bush stated the Taliban must go, also they are almost finished. Taliban didnt run off to the mountains lol. They continued to control half of the country, until last 5 years much more. US and Brits most of the time couldnt fight fire with fire, so called in air strikes, like cowards. Taliban would regroup and attack again. Eventually your heros couldnt take the losses, decided to leave. Their plan to oust the Taliban failed, they lost the war and their enemy is stronger than ever.

For anyone who does not remember here is a video of Bush saying the Taliban regieme is coming to an end.


Mullah Omar responded to that by saying

God has promised us victory, and Bush has promised us defeat. We'll see which promise is more truthful

It should not be hard to see that the Taliban won. But i guess it is for some people.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It took 4 Presidents, ten- thousands of lives, Trillions of dollars investment over the course of 20 years to replace <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Taliban?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Taliban</a> with <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Taliban?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Taliban</a><br>And created Graveyard of America Empire . <a href="https://t.co/wxTSfcNn5N">pic.twitter.com/wxTSfcNn5N</a></p>— KarHash Universe (@karhashofficial) <a href="https://twitter.com/karhashofficial/status/1427359383608971267?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 16, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Taliban controlled rural areas which no foreign power cares. They only care about cities and economic centers which US and its allies along with Afghan Army ruled until US decided they do not want to be in Afghanistan anymore.

This is no defeat of USA unless you are some deluded individual. Regaining lost territory after the enemy loses interest is not called victory for Taliban by war.

Literally every US person of note whether ex military or Democrat or Republican is calling this a defeat. But here comes guna saying it’s not lol
 
Literally every US person of note whether ex military or Democrat or Republican is calling this a defeat. But here comes guna saying it’s not lol

It is called copium and it is used when one is delusional to insanity.


Poor Indians; but then again their "News" media, Muslim Killer PM Modi and Bollywood are the culprits of their lack of awareness...
 
Brits dont give a damn about Afghan women or children. British have been in Afghanistan before, they killed and raped then, now they just killed and bombed thousands of innocent people. Invasion had nothing to do with womens rights otherwise Saudi Arabia would be the first to be invaded.

Pakistan is the only Muslim nation with nukes. It cannot be ivaded like Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Sudan, Afghanistan etc. CIA had dozens of offices on the border, training terrorists with India to attack. This has failed too.

Afghans or Taliban are not the bad guys, the boots from the imperial west are. Its time they stopped invading other nations, its disgusting state terrorism which makes Al-Qaeda look like the tellytubbies.

Excellent post. I have been saying time and again that women rights group woke up from the dead as they were sleeping when 1000s of women were bombed by US and NATO troops, in the last 20 years in Afghanistan. Suddenly the women rights group care about situation when they were silent about scores of women being bombed by drone and land attacks. Very unfortunate and I hope they wait for Taliban govt running Afghanistan before basing their conclusion. I feel culture is very important to afghans and everything will be according to it.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This isn’t just the Fall of Kabul. The entire leadership of the US govt disappeared today. A thousand narratives collapsed in realtime. DC theater gave way to reality. A generation of people around the world watched as the US govt was humiliated.</p>— Jack Posobiec &#55356;&#56826;&#55356;&#56824; (@JackPosobiec) <a href="https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1427135075129380868?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 16, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Anyone has any data on how many civilians in total died in Afghanistan, a breakdown of women and children would be great. For some reason I can’t find a credible source.
 
I was referring to the government, its always the government and military. As for the public, sure many do but still a small %, less than 5 imo.

This defeat will set the way for the US empire on the road to decline. US is broke, divided and hated by most of the world. China is the future now, its time for the UK to work closer with China and shelve their slavery mentality towards USA and Zionism.

At least, UK should take plenty of Afghan refugees fleeing the Taliban. As should all ISAF nations. Those scene of the gunships clearing desperate people off the runway for the C17 to take off are appalling.

What you are asking is for the UK to ditch 150 years of commitment to liberalism and go down the authoritarian route. No thanks. USA may also be lost to authoritarianism if a smarter and less crude populist version of Trump comes to power. That leaves Europe. UK should rejoin our friends in the EU, with whom we have shared values.
 
President Joe Biden has said he stands "squarely" behind the US exit from Afghanistan as he faces withering criticism over the Taliban's lightning conquest of the war-torn country.

"How many more American lives is it worth?" asked the Democratic president.

He said that despite the "messy" pullout, "there was never a good time to withdraw US forces".

On Sunday, the Taliban declared victory after Afghan President Ashraf Ghani fled and his government collapsed.

The militants' return to rule brings an end to almost 20 years of a US-led coalition's presence in the country.

Kabul was the last major city in Afghanistan to fall to a Taliban offensive that began months ago but accelerated in recent days as they gained control of territories, shocking many observers.

Mr Biden's address followed a dramatic day at Kabul's international airport, where hundreds of civilians desperate to flee the country forced their way inside on Monday.

Many thronged the runway, running alongside a moving military transporter aircraft as it prepared for take-off.

Some clung to the side of plane, and at least two of them are reported to have perished when they fell from the aircraft after it had left the ground.

American troops killed two armed Afghans who were part of the crowd that breached the airport perimeter. Seven people reportedly died in total.

The US suspended its evacuation from Kabul but it has now resumed.

Separately, the Taliban have announced what they are calling a general amnesty for government officials, and have urged them to return to work.

'The right decision'

Mr Biden returned on Monday to the White House from the Camp David presidential retreat to make his first public remarks on Afghanistan in nearly a week.

"If anything, the developments of the past week reinforce that ending US military involvement in Afghanistan now was the right decision," said Mr Biden.

"American troops cannot and should not be fighting in a war and dying in a war that Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves."

Mr Biden is facing an intense political backlash over the turmoil in Kabul following his April decision to order all American troops out of Afghanistan by 11 September - the 20 year anniversary of the terror attacks that triggered the US invasion.

Mitch McConnell, Republican Senate Minority Leader, tweeted: "What we are seeing in Afghanistan is an unmitigated disaster. The Biden Administration's retreat will leave a stain on the reputation of the United States."

Former US President George W Bush, who authorised the military intervention in 2001, said he was "watching the tragic events unfolding in Afghanistan with deep sadness".

"The Afghans now at greatest risk are the same ones who have been on the forefront of progress inside their nation," Mr Bush said, stressing that the US had "the legal authority to cut the red tape for refugees during urgent humanitarian crises".

In his speech, Mr Biden said the US mission in Afghanistan was never supposed to have been about nation-building.

He said that when he was vice-president he had opposed the 2009 deployment of thousands more troops into the country by former President Barack Obama.

Mr Biden also noted he had inherited a deal negotiated with the Taliban under former President Donald Trump for the US to withdraw from Afghanistan by May of this year.

He said he was now the fourth US president to preside over America's longest war, and would not pass the responsibility on to a fifth.

"I will not mislead the American people by claiming that just a little more time in Afghanistan will make all the difference."

Mr Biden campaigned as a seasoned expert in foreign policy and declared after assuming office this year that "America is back".

Last month he assured reporters it was "highly unlikely" the Taliban would overrun the entire country.

But he conceded on Monday that "this did unfold more quickly than we had anticipated".

Opinion polls suggest most Americans support the US exiting Afghanistan.

But Mr Biden is facing a barrage of criticism over the manner of the departure, after he withdrew US troops then sent thousands back in to help the evacuation.

Images emerged on Sunday showing US helicopters circling the US embassy in Kabul.

For many, the pictures evoked America's humiliating departure from Saigon, Vietnam, in 1975 when Mr Biden was a junior senator.

BBC
 
President Joe Biden has said he stands "squarely" behind the US exit from Afghanistan as he faces withering criticism over the Taliban's lightning conquest of the war-torn country.

"How many more American lives is it worth?" asked the Democratic president.

He said that despite the "messy" pullout, "there was never a good time to withdraw US forces".

On Sunday, the Taliban declared victory after Afghan President Ashraf Ghani fled and his government collapsed.

The militants' return to rule brings an end to almost 20 years of a US-led coalition's presence in the country.

Kabul was the last major city in Afghanistan to fall to a Taliban offensive that began months ago but accelerated in recent days as they gained control of territories, shocking many observers.

Mr Biden's address followed a dramatic day at Kabul's international airport, where hundreds of civilians desperate to flee the country forced their way inside on Monday.

Many thronged the runway, running alongside a moving military transporter aircraft as it prepared for take-off.

Some clung to the side of plane, and at least two of them are reported to have perished when they fell from the aircraft after it had left the ground.

American troops killed two armed Afghans who were part of the crowd that breached the airport perimeter. Seven people reportedly died in total.

The US suspended its evacuation from Kabul but it has now resumed.

Separately, the Taliban have announced what they are calling a general amnesty for government officials, and have urged them to return to work.

'The right decision'

Mr Biden returned on Monday to the White House from the Camp David presidential retreat to make his first public remarks on Afghanistan in nearly a week.

"If anything, the developments of the past week reinforce that ending US military involvement in Afghanistan now was the right decision," said Mr Biden.

"American troops cannot and should not be fighting in a war and dying in a war that Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves."

Mr Biden is facing an intense political backlash over the turmoil in Kabul following his April decision to order all American troops out of Afghanistan by 11 September - the 20 year anniversary of the terror attacks that triggered the US invasion.

Mitch McConnell, Republican Senate Minority Leader, tweeted: "What we are seeing in Afghanistan is an unmitigated disaster. The Biden Administration's retreat will leave a stain on the reputation of the United States."

Former US President George W Bush, who authorised the military intervention in 2001, said he was "watching the tragic events unfolding in Afghanistan with deep sadness".

"The Afghans now at greatest risk are the same ones who have been on the forefront of progress inside their nation," Mr Bush said, stressing that the US had "the legal authority to cut the red tape for refugees during urgent humanitarian crises".

In his speech, Mr Biden said the US mission in Afghanistan was never supposed to have been about nation-building.

He said that when he was vice-president he had opposed the 2009 deployment of thousands more troops into the country by former President Barack Obama.

Mr Biden also noted he had inherited a deal negotiated with the Taliban under former President Donald Trump for the US to withdraw from Afghanistan by May of this year.

He said he was now the fourth US president to preside over America's longest war, and would not pass the responsibility on to a fifth.

"I will not mislead the American people by claiming that just a little more time in Afghanistan will make all the difference."

Mr Biden campaigned as a seasoned expert in foreign policy and declared after assuming office this year that "America is back".

Last month he assured reporters it was "highly unlikely" the Taliban would overrun the entire country.

But he conceded on Monday that "this did unfold more quickly than we had anticipated".

Opinion polls suggest most Americans support the US exiting Afghanistan.

But Mr Biden is facing a barrage of criticism over the manner of the departure, after he withdrew US troops then sent thousands back in to help the evacuation.

Images emerged on Sunday showing US helicopters circling the US embassy in Kabul.

For many, the pictures evoked America's humiliating departure from Saigon, Vietnam, in 1975 when Mr Biden was a junior senator.

BBC

Have to be honest here, his body language and speech was that of a defeated man. I am watching Bush’s speech from 2001, and then this one, Both are so different with opposite body language.
 
This is an abject and humiliating defeat for the Western militaries and their governments, there is no doubt about that at all. My sympathies are with all of the people and their families who have been victims of this conflict (directly and indirectly).
 
Anyone has any data on how many civilians in total died in Afghanistan, a breakdown of women and children would be great. For some reason I can’t find a credible source.

Apparently when 'women and children' are killed by "the West" and its puppets they do not matter... even as a statistic...

Bigot hypocrites... the bunch of them.
 
The withdraw debacle aside

Biden isn't medically fit to be in office

He's clearly seeing the early onset of dementia

We all know of old people in family friends circles where their brain degenerates and they start forgetting things and start rambling incoherent nonsense .
 
And Pakistan runs on love,honesty and truth?

Now if you truly beleive yes, then don’t even bother with the rest of my post

Which country doesn’t have issues?

Keeping india and Pakistan aside, Anyways if my pick is between the so called oppressing west where I live and the Taliban, 11/10 times I would pick the west. Are you fin kidding me if that is even a choice.

So no there is no hypocrisy in people cheering for the people against the Taliban

Yessss.

Its a land filled with people who are great hosts, friendly, warm and with pure hearts. Now if you were to come to Pakistan, you would be showered with rose petals and given food fit for a king. Big hearts, do the Pakistani people have.

And not to mention, you would be given fantastic tea, not that awful taaghey pati wali chai but proper desi chai, malai and all. Come and experience the warmth and beauty of the country. :afridi
 
This is an abject and humiliating defeat for the Western militaries and their governments, there is no doubt about that at all. My sympathies are with all of the people and their families who have been victims of this conflict (directly and indirectly).

The UN / ISAF militaries were not defeated. Rather, their governing politicians have failed at statecraft. The neoconservative dream of nation-building in the Middle East and Afghanistan has failed. It took centuries for the philosophical systems underlying liberal democracy to take root in the West so the hope that the Eastern nations would just default to the same mind-set in a couple of decades after the despots were removed was forlorn.

Desperate scenes coming out of Afghanistan now. The first female mayor of Kabul tweeted that she was sitting and waiting for then to come and take her. It breaks my heart.
 
I think US has achieved a lot. Wiped out Al Quaida, Killed Osama. Also if you compare this Taliban with 20 years old Taliban you will see a lot of difference. Obviously they had to leave one day so I think US did well.
 
Whether the USA’s decision will affect other parts of the world remains to be seen.

Will the Chinese decide that the US is weak and invade Taiwan?

Will Putin make one of his asymmetric warfare land-grabs at one or more of the Baltic states?
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It took 4 Presidents, ten- thousands of lives, Trillions of dollars investment over the course of 20 years to replace <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Taliban?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Taliban</a> with <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Taliban?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Taliban</a><br>And created Graveyard of America Empire . <a href="https://t.co/wxTSfcNn5N">pic.twitter.com/wxTSfcNn5N</a></p>— KarHash Universe (@karhashofficial) <a href="https://twitter.com/karhashofficial/status/1427359383608971267?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 16, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This graveyard of empires thing is nonsense. Afghans have been getting whooped since the time of Alexander. It was only Ahmed Shah Durrani who gave them dignity for some time. Later, they were humiliated by the British which made the Afghan surrender large parts of Balochistan and NWFP. British empire used to invade Kabul at will and install their puppets there. Until 1921, the foreign policy of Afghanistan was British mandate, Afghans weren't allowed to run their own foreign affairs !

Since the 70s, Pakistan has been controlling Afghan affairs. No regime (foreign or internal) can stay long in Afghanistan unless Pakistan deems so.

We sometimes exaggerate the Afghan 'achievements'. Afghan people are resilient and courageous but thats about it.
 
As the world begins to process the implications of the Taliban’s takeover of Afghanistan, lots of people in Washington are pointing fingers at Pakistan, a major non-NATO ally that hasn’t been seen as an ally for a long time. But the world is changing fast, and the United States and Pakistan each have a clear interest in moving past their problems and working together, the country’s national security adviser told me in an interview.

To the extent that Pakistan is mentioned in U.S. media coverage of the Afghanistan crisis, it is mostly indicted for its alleged support of the Taliban over the years. Now that the Taliban has taken power, Washington experts are once again accusing Pakistan of complicity with the jihadists and calling for punishments, such as cutting off assistance or imposing sanctions on the government. But in Islamabad, the civilian leadership is not celebrating the Taliban victory. Instead it is trying to manage the coming fallout.

Afghan instability could lead to more terrorism, refugees and economic hardship for Pakistan, Prime Minister Imran Khan’s national security adviser, Moeed Yusuf, said in a phone interview. The United States and Pakistan have a shared interest in working together in Afghanistan, he said, but that will require fixing the bilateral relationship.


“Right now, in the situation we are in, how are U.S. and Pakistan’s interests not aligned?” he said. “I’m not asking for any sympathy for Pakistan. I’m thinking in terms of pure U.S. selfish national interests. How does it help to push away a country of this size, stature and power?”

U.S. intelligence agencies believe that elements of the Pakistani military and intelligence system have supported the Taliban for years, a charge the civilian leadership denies. According to Human Rights Watch, this support has included funding, diplomatic support, recruiting and training of Taliban fighters, providing the Taliban arms and even direct combat support.

Pakistan perennially stands accused of providing havens for the Taliban on its side of the border. Pakistani officials point out that tens of thousands of Pakistani soldiers have died fighting extremists in their own country since 9/11.

“Pakistan is the victim. We had nothing to do with 9/11. … We teamed up with the U.S. to fight back … and after that there is a major backlash on Pakistan,” Yusuf said. “But let’s let all that pass. We need to work out how to move forward as partners, because neither side can do without the other in terms of stability in the region.”

The U.S.-supported government in Kabul used Pakistan as a scapegoat to excuse its own ineptitude, corruptions and unpopularity, Yusuf said. Pakistan helped bring the Taliban to the negotiating table at Washington’s request, got cut out of the negotiations and is now being blamed for the outcome.

“Did Pakistan tell the Afghan National Army not to fight? Did Pakistan tell Ashraf Ghani to run away?” he said. “The entire state collapsed in a week. So somebody was lying, somebody was misreporting, or somebody was mistaken about the reality and when it came to informing the taxpayers of the Western world.”

From the statement Khan’s government put out last week about the Taliban takeover it becomes apparent there is actually significant overlap with the Biden administration’s policy goals. Pakistan is calling for the Taliban to work with other ethnic groups toward a political settlement to establish an inclusive government in Kabul. Pakistan has urged the Taliban to respect international law and human rights. Islamabad agrees with Biden that withdrawing all U.S. troops was the right decision.

“Continuation of foreign military presence for a longer duration now would not have yielded a different outcome," the statement said.

Pakistan also wants the United States to increase its diplomatic and economic involvement in Afghanistan and to find a way forward to engage diplomatically with the Taliban. The United States should not isolate Afghanistan to punish its new rulers, Yusuf said.

Advertisement

“Now that the Taliban has the whole country, they don’t really need Islamabad as much anymore,” he said. “Assistance and recognition is the leverage. Who has that? It’s the Western countries that have much more leverage in Afghanistan than Pakistan.”

Former U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan and Pakistan Ryan Crocker wrote last week in the New York Times that the United States made a mistake by disengaging with Pakistan in the 1990s and would be repeating that mistake by turning away from Islamabad now.

“We need to be engaged with Pakistan on ways to assess and deal with this enhanced threat,” wrote Crocker. “The prospect of violent destabilization of a country with about 210 million people and nuclear weapons is not a pretty one.”

The U.S.-Pakistan relationship can’t be just about Afghanistan, Yusuf told me; the two countries share a much broader range of interests. But first, the United States must learn the lessons of the 1990s, when it abandoned Afghanistan. Otherwise it can expect a similar outcome.

“If a security vacuum is left in Afghanistan by abandoning it, you will see that these terrorist organizations take root again. Let’s not kid ourselves,” Yusuf said.

Given Biden’s haphazard withdrawal from Afghanistan and the Taliban takeover, the United States has little alternative but to seriously consider Pakistan’s offer of cooperation. Sure, it might not work, but it’s worth a shot. Meanwhile, Washington and Islamabad might find a path back to being true allies. That still makes strategic sense for both countries, perhaps now more than ever.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-wants-be-treated-like-an-ally-not-scapegoat/
 
I still don’t understand what we’re Americans fighting over there? Al qaeda? Taliban? Extremism?

By all accounts they failed to kill all three. How would you classify that result?
 
Afghanistan is the graveyard for empires. American empire is just the latest victim.

Yes. I believe Talibans have defeated United States of America.
 
I still don’t understand what we’re Americans fighting over there? Al qaeda? Taliban? Extremism?

By all accounts they failed to kill all three. How would you classify that result?

Apparently there was a huge stock of weapons that was sat in the American warehouse unused, hence the urge to go on a war.

The same situation is now with India who has spent trillions on weapons.
 
The only place where Americans can be beaten is the battlefield.

Once you are off it, they can't be conquered. Watch them convert the situation in Afghanistan as the greatest mission to give freedom to a radicalized nation and how their soldiers are the paradigm of humanity. (Heck, they even activated their sleeper agent Jolie on Instagram as she was so moved by a letter from an Afghan girl.)*

The American propaganda machine is unbeatable and unrivaled and no one has been able to even remotely compete with it.

* Conjecture
 
The last remaining UK troops have been flown out of Kabul airport, ending Britain's 20-year campaign in Afghanistan.

The final RAF plane left at 9.25pm on Saturday, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said.

It comes after the last dedicated flight purely for the evacuation effort left the Afghan capital on Friday night - and ahead of the 31 August deadline set by Joe Biden for American forces to withdraw.

Afghanistan live updates: British troops seen packed on to military plane as UK personnel depart Kabul

Operation Pitting has now ended, with the UK evacuating 15,000 people from Kabul in a fortnight - including 5,000 British nationals and more than 8,000 Afghans who worked for the UK, and their families, as well as many highly vulnerable people.

Among those fleeing were approximately 2,200 children, who have now been lifted to safety - the youngest of whom was just one day old.

It has been the UK's largest military evacuation since World War Two.

Around 10,000 people have been brought to the UK under the Afghan Relocations and Assistance Policy (ARAP), which is double the number anticipated this year.

The British embassy and ambassador to Afghanistan, Laurie Bristow, will now be temporarily relocated to Qatar to lead the UK's diplomatic, security and humanitarian engagement remotely.

The government said it intends to re-establish a diplomatic presence in Kabul "as soon as the security and political situation in the country allows".

Prime Minister Boris Johnson praised the work of those involved in the operation, saying: "Twenty years ago, in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, the first British soldier set foot on Afghan soil aiming to create a brighter future for the country and all its people.

"The departure of the last British soldiers from the country is a moment to reflect on everything we have sacrificed and everything we have achieved in the last two decades.

"The nature of our engagement in Afghanistan may have changed, but our goals for the country have not. We will now use all the diplomatic and humanitarian tools at our disposal to preserve the gains of the last 20 years and give the Afghan people the future they deserve."

But Labour has accused government ministers of being "missing in action", with leader Sir Keir Starmer saying: "We've known for 18 months that this moment was coming.

"It is unconscionable that there was no strategy in place to get all the British nationals and Afghans we owed a debt to out.

"I pay tribute to all the FCDO [Foreign and Commonwealth Development Office] staff and military personnel who have, as ever, stepped up when their leaders have failed them."

The Sunday Times has reported that up to 9,000 people who may have been eligible to escape were left behind, while The Observer claimed thousands of emails from MPs and charities highlighting potentially eligible cases went unread by the Foreign Office.

The FCDO told The Observer: "We have been working tirelessly to evacuate over 15,000 people from Afghanistan in the last two weeks.

"We deployed a 24/7 cross-Whitehall team based in our crisis hub to triage incoming emails and calls from British nationals, Arap applicants, and other vulnerable Afghans.

"We always cautioned that the nature of the security situation in Afghanistan meant that we would not be able to evacuate everyone we wanted to."

But Sir Keir said: "The fact that so many emails have simply gone unopened is not the fault of civil servants but of government ministers who have been missing in action during this whole crisis.

"MPs and their staff have been hearing harrowing stories from so many people we should have taken care of but who have been abandoned to the Taliban."

Image shows UK military personnel onboard a A400M aircraft departing Kabul, Afghanistan on the 28 August 2021.

The government has said it will continue to provide help to any remaining British nationals and Afghans who have worked with the UK and who were not evacuated on time.

The UK also reiterated the legitimacy of the Taliban regime in the eyes of the G7 depends on the group continuing to provide safe passage for those who want to leave the country and safeguarding the rights of all Afghans.

The Home Office is working to establish the details of the Afghan Citizens' Resettlement Scheme (ACRS), which aims to provide protection for Afghan citizens identified as most at risk - such as women and girls.

The government has committed to take around 5,000 refugees in the first year and 20,000 over the coming years.

Sharing an image of departing troops on a packed military plane, Mr Wallace said: "The UK should be very proud of what you have done. Every one of you has displayed the highest levels of professionalism and bravery.

"You have helped thousands to get to a better future and safety. Thank you."

He later added: "In 14 days over 15,000 people have been airlifted on over 165 flights. We should be proud of our armed forces, welcoming to those coming for a better life, and sad for those left behind.

"Our obligation to them does not end with our leaving. There will be many lessons to learn but over the last 20 years there are also endless examples of amazing achievements, bravery and friendships formed. We will not forget those who lost their lives."

SKY
 
Taliban say US will have 'no right' to carry out attacks in Afghanistan after Aug 31

Washington will have no right to launch attacks in Afghanistan after August 31, says Taliban's spokesperson.
Statement came in reaction to a US drone strike in Afghanistan’s Nangarhar province.
The United States had launched a drone strike against a Daesh attack "planner" in eastern Afghanistan.

KABUL: Reacting to the US drone strike in Afghanistan’s Nangarhar province, spokesman for the Taliban's political office Suhail Shaheen said that Washington will have no right to attack the country after August 31.

The United States had launched a drone strike against a Daesh attack "planner" in eastern Afghanistan, the military had said on Friday, a day after a suicide bombing at Kabul airport killed 13 US troops and scores of Afghan civilians, according to Reuters.

Responding to a question if the US had carried out the drone strike with the Taliban’s consent, Suhail Shaheen said that the Taliban-led government will stop any such attack in Afghanistan after August 31. He said this while talking during Geo News programme "Naya Pakistan".

Meanwhile, the Taliban’s main spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid condemned an overnight US drone strike against Daesh militants following Thursday's suicide attack near the airport, calling it a "clear attack on Afghan territory", Reuters reported.

He was of the view that the US should have informed them before the attack.

Talking about the new cabinet, Mujahid said the announcement would be made in the coming week, but in a voice message later, he said the makeup of the new cabinet would be cleared "in one or two weeks".

Responding to a question about whether any women would be included in the new cabinet, he said this would be a matter for the leadership to decide and he could not anticipate what their decision would be.

US targets Daesh militants in Afghanistan
Earlier, the US had launched a drone strike against a Daesh attack "planner" in eastern Afghanistan, the military said on Friday.

President Joe Biden had vowed on Thursday that the United States would hunt down those responsible for the attack, saying he had ordered the Pentagon to come up with plans to strike at the perpetrators.

US Central Command had said the strike took place in Nangarhar province, east of Kabul and bordering Pakistan, according to Reuters.

"Initial indications are that we killed the target. We know of no civilian casualties," a US military statement had said. It did not say whether the target was connected with the airport attack.

A US official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, had said the strike was against a Daesh militant planning future attacks.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/367717-nangarhar-drone-strike-us-will-have-no-right-to-attack-in-afghanistan-after-aug-31-say-taliban
 
The US has completed its withdrawal from Afghanistan after the last of its planes took off from Kabul airport.

All its service members have now departed, bringing an end to a 20-year campaign that saw more than 2,400 Americans die as well as tens of thousands of Afghans.

A photo of Major General Chris Donahue, commander of the 82nd Airborne Division, boarding a C-17 cargo plane at Kabul airport was released by the US Department of Defence, as he was the last US service member to leave the country.

General Kenneth F McKenzie earlier announced the "completion of our withdrawal" during a news conference at The Pentagon.

He said the US ambassador to Afghanistan, Ross Wilson, was also on the last flight from Kabul.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the US's diplomatic mission to the country would operate from Doha, Qatar, for the time being, as America enters a "new chapter" in ties with Afghanistan.

"The last C-17 lifted off on 30 August at 3.29pm (EDT) and the last manned aircraft is clearing the airspace above Afghanistan now," said General McKenzie, head of US Central Command.

President Joe Biden said he would address the American people on Tuesday afternoon but in a statement hailed the military's "courage, professionalism, and resolve".

"The past 17 days have seen our troops execute the largest airlift in US history, evacuating over 120,000 US citizens, citizens of our allies, and Afghan allies of the United States," he said.

However, Gen McKenzie acknowledged that while the "vast majority" of Americans who wanted to leave were able to, not everyone got out and that diplomatic means would now be used.

He also warned an estimated 2,000 "hardcore" ISIS fighters were still in Afghanistan.

A regional affiliate of the Islamic State terror group, ISIS-K, was behind last week's suicide attack at Kabul airport that killed 13 US service members, three Britons and scores of Afghans.

It also claimed responsibility for a rocket attack on the airport on Monday.

The Taliban established a "firm perimeter" as the final flight left, said Gen McKenzie, and were "helpful and useful" as the US drew a line under two weeks of frantic airlifts.

Tens of thousands of Afghans had waited at the airport in desperate conditions in the hope of escaping the new Taliban regime.

Monday night's pull-out means President Biden has followed through on a Trump pledge to leave Afghanistan.

However, many have criticised him for pushing ahead with the wind down after the Taliban seized the opportunity to quickly over-run the Afghan military and take power.

There are fears that - despite their assurances - the group will reimpose their violent form of Sharia law that previously saw women's rights reduced to practically zero.

America went into Afghanistan after the 9/11 attacks in order to stop al Qaeda using the country as a base to plan any further attacks.

However, the US presence ended up spanning three decades and became deeply unpopular.

Gen McKenzie told reporters it had "brought Osama bin Laden to a just end, along with many of his al Qaeda co-conspirators", but that it was "not a cheap mission".

UK efforts to airlift Britons from Kabul, as well as people such as interpreters who had helped the country, ended on Friday.

SKY
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ps" dir="rtl">بدري لښکر ته د مجاهد صاحب وينا <a href="https://t.co/TitsD2HzqT">pic.twitter.com/TitsD2HzqT</a></p>— Tariq Ghazniwal (@TGhazniwal) <a href="https://twitter.com/TGhazniwal/status/1432568550577803267?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Zabihullah Mujahid is seen addressing a group of fighters in full combat gear.

He is seen thanking them for their efforts and congratulating them for "gaining independence".

"We are proud of your sacrifices. This is because of the hardships you and our leaders suffered. It is because of (our leaders') honesty and patience that we are independent today," he said.

"So I congratulate you and the Afghan nation. Our wish is that our country will never be invaded again. We want peace, prosperity and a true Islamic system."

He also urged the Taliban fighters to "be gentle" with the Afghan people.

"I would also like to ask you to be careful in how you deal with your people. This nation has suffered a lot. The Afghan people deserve to be treated with love and sympathy. So, be gentle to them. We are their servants. We have not imposed ourselves on them."

This translation was provided by our colleagues at BBC Pashto.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-58279900

PS: Dust has to settle for credible news source to start reporting from Kabul. Meanwhile only Taliban sources are reporting.

Btw, what is credible news source anyways? All of them have their masters and agendas. In some cases it is very evident and in others' it takes some time...

Even B B C are translating Taliban tweets :))
 
Last edited:
Back
Top