Will India become an average team once their legends retire?

[mominsaigol]

Sri Lanka was once a jam packed team that was not to be trifled with. The country which had once produced the likes of Jaysuria, Kumar Sangakara, Aravindra, Malinga, Murli, Dilshan, Tharanga has recently faded away and more or less become a minnow, So much so that they won't even get to feature in this addition of the Champions Trophy.

In the case of India, we have seen how they've struggled to find a suitable replacement for Yuvi Singh, and while the likes of Pandya have stepped up, it's clear as day that India has yet to find a suitable replacement for one of their greatest allrounders of all time.

Currently India's star players Rohit and Kohli are on the edge of Retirement. And While Bumrah and Shami have a few years left in the tank(Bumrah more so, Shami less so),

Do you think India will lose its era of Dominance (Excluding final chokes) after their legends retire?

Atm I really can't see the likes of Abisheikh, Gill, Jaiswal, sheryas and many others ever match up to Rohit or Kohli. India is a talented nation however even for their high standards, they were extremely lucky to find someone like rohit and kohli after the likes of sehwag and Sachin retired.

By no means do I think that India will become a minnow, however i do think that Bumrah, Rohit and Kohli are next level even for their standards and finding a replacement will be next to impossible.

 

[ravisurya]

The same was said or hoped for by a lot of people on this forum back in 2012 when the Indian batting stalwarts were retiring.

 

[Ab Fan]

Every team goes through such phase. Australia don't have Warner and soon will not have Smith, Khawaja, Starc, Cummins, Lyon and Hazelwood.

 

[Ab Fan]

Sri Lanka's batting is fine to be honest, it is their bowling which is poor. They need one quality pacer of Johnson/Broad level and one quality spinner like Lyon/Swann. They will become a good side again.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Massive decline incoming. We don't have the natural talent of Pakistan/SL/WI nor do they have the rigorous system of Australia and NZ to produce teams.

 

[RexRex]

No worries .. Gill, Jaiswal and Rinku Singh to shift to the next gear, t'will happen soon.

 

[mominsaigol]

The same was said or hoped for by a lot of people on this forum back in 2012 when the Indian batting stalwarts were retiring.

Well the thing is Rohit and Kohli changed the game and then the likes of Bumrah came along.

The thing is, even top teams like Australia have yet to find another keeper like giclhrist or another bowler like mcgrath.

The absence of Rohit and kohli will defo impact.

 

[NishanKonar]

Well the thing is Rohit and Kohli changed the game and then the likes of Bumrah came along.

The thing is, even top teams like Australia have yet to find another keeper like giclhrist or another bowler like mcgrath.

The absence of Rohit and kohli will defo impact.

nostalgia aside - Pat Cummins today is as good as peak McGrath. Dave Warner & Travis Head are as good as peak Adam Gilchrist. Australia don't need a keeper batter like Gichrist bcoz they already have a proper allrounder - blaster like Mitch Marsh

The only reason Australia does not dominate world cricket unlike the 90s is today England & India are much stronger that what they were in the 90s

Countries which are process driven dont struggle for long - except for occasional blips due to transition phases. True for Australia & in future India as well

 

[stonecold316]

india is struggling or might struggle not due to resources or talent but very pathetic political and regional bias in selection. You see there are many talented youngsters performing in various local tournaments but still not watched by selectors. Look at duleep trophy teams pathetic selection. players like kartik tyagi,hengergaker, swastik chikara(natural talent), simerjeet , kishan tiwari(bowling at 90 mph consistently in upt20) etc and many more. instead unfit trundlers like avesh khalil get picked every time

 

[mominsaigol]

nostalgia aside - Pat Cummins today is as good as peak McGrath. Dave Warner & Travis Head are as good as peak Adam Gilchrist. Australia don't need a keeper batter like Gichrist bcoz they already have a proper allrounder - blaster like Mitch Marsh

The only reason Australia does not dominate world cricket unlike the 90s is today England & India are much stronger that what they were in the 90s

Countries which are process driven dont struggle for long - except for occasional blips due to transition phases. True for Australia & in future India as well

Pat cummins is as good as Peak Mcgrath? HAHAHAHAHAHA. word of advice just saying the word nostalgia aside doesn't make your argument good.

 

[Mesozoic]

I think Pakistanis should worry more about their savours Australia when their seniors like Smith, Starc, Hazlewood , Lyon , Maxwell etc retire all at once and Warner has already gone. Even the likes of Head, Cummins , Mitchell Marsh and Zampa are well into their 30s. Heck even their backups like Boland, Neser, Handscomb, Wade etc are in their mid 30s.

In 2-3 years , their entire team will be un-recognisable from now with only Cam Green remaining from this core. If you think I'm over exaggerating...go ahead and name me one more U25 cricketer from Australia barring Green who looks even close to taking the mantle from the current generation? Go ahead..

 

[Mesozoic]

I think Pakistanis should worry more about their savours Australia when their seniors like Smith, Starc, Hazlewood , Lyon , Maxwell etc retire all at once and Warner has already gone. Even the likes of Head, Cummins , Mitchell Marsh and Zampa are well into their 30s. Heck even their backups like Boland, Neser, Handscomb, Wade etc are in their mid 30s.

In 2-3 years , their entire team will be un-recognisable from now with only Cam Green remaining from this core. If you think I'm over exaggerating...go ahead and name me one more U25 cricketer from Australia barring Green who looks even close to taking the mantle from the current generation? Go ahead..

Good luck pinning your hopes on an Australian side filled with the likes of McGurk, Hardie, Tanveer Sangha and Todd Murphy to stop India from winning future tournaments.

 

[Mamoon]

India is already an average team.

 

[dubeTheGoat]

Teams going through transition always appear weaker.. once it is complete, they will be back to form. Heck Aus 2018 was so weak everyone expected them to not even make the semis.Head was mediocre then, but now look how he turned around.

Its difficult to estimate how strong a team will be based on current players. Yes.. gill, parag and arshdeep are definitely not even close to the level of Kohli and Bumrah but they have time on their hand. Even Rohit Sharma was mediocre before he was made to open.

Infact right now we are carrying quite a few passengers and players who are past their prime... once they retire and we have new blood .. perhaps our team will be better.

 

[Ahmed216]

SL are not minnows. Kamindu Mendis is better than every batsman in Pakistan

 

[Devadwal]

India is already an average team.

Yes that's why india won the world T20, World Cup 2023 finalist, WTC finalists , won last 2 test series in australia , draw last test series in england and South Africa , Humiliated every test nations in india .


Now can i show the world best team pakistan success story to you??

 

[Ahmed216]

India is already an average team.

Slightly above average

 

[kron]

India's bench is even better without kohli and rohit

Bowling will only grow from here. India will be fine as long as india picks players on merit.

 

[Jazx]

Sri Lanka was once a jam packed team that was not to be trifled with. The country which had once produced the likes of Jaysuria, Kumar Sangakara, Aravindra, Malinga, Murli, Dilshan, Tharanga has recently faded away and more or less become a minnow, So much so that they won't even get to feature in this addition of the Champions Trophy.

In the case of India, we have seen how they've struggled to find a suitable replacement for Yuvi Singh, and while the likes of Pandya have stepped up, it's clear as day that India has yet to find a suitable replacement for one of their greatest allrounders of all time.

Currently India's star players Rohit and Kohli are on the edge of Retirement. And While Bumrah and Shami have a few years left in the tank(Bumrah more so, Shami less so),

Do you think India will lose its era of Dominance (Excluding final chokes) after their legends retire?

Atm I really can't see the likes of Abisheikh, Gill, Jaiswal, sheryas and many others ever match up to Rohit or Kohli. India is a talented nation however even for their high standards, they were extremely lucky to find someone like rohit and kohli after the likes of sehwag and Sachin retired.

By no means do I think that India will become a minnow, however i do think that Bumrah, Rohit and Kohli are next level even for their standards and finding a replacement will be next to impossible.

These kind of things impact only those countries who don't have a proper domestic structure and that is not the case with India now. Sri Lanka declined because of that only after their legends got retired. Teams like India, Aus, England have a proper domestic structure with them, their may be a downfall for quite sometime but any how they will have a proper replacements.

 

[FearlessRoar]

The batting department will be weak after Virat and Rohit, but Bumrah is still there for next 5 to 6 years so their bowling will dominate.

 

[NishanKonar]

Pat cummins is as good as Peak Mcgrath? HAHAHAHAHAHA. word of advice just saying the word nostalgia aside doesn't make your argument good.

This is why I said nostalgia aside. Bcoz nostalgia always makes us look everything with rose tinted glasses. This si especially true for cricket

Current Pat Cummins can replace McGrath in that Australian line up. What they cannot replace is Shane Warne.

 

[kron]

Yes that's why india won the world T20, World Cup 2023 finalist, WTC finalists , won last 2 test series in australia , draw last test series in england and South Africa , Humiliated every test nations in india .


Now can i show the world best team pakistan success story to you??

No we are mediocre now because kohli who averages 28 in the last 4 years is retiring. We just can't win withour him at all. 2021 aus series and india series in 2017 dint happe at all without kohli.

 

[Ab Fan]

This is why I said nostalgia aside. Bcoz nostalgia always makes us look everything with rose tinted glasses. This si especially true for cricket

Current Pat Cummins can replace McGrath in that Australian line up. What they cannot replace is Shane Warne.

Cummins can't replace McGrath. Cummins averages 26 away from home. McGrath averages 21 away from home.

 

[kron]

This is why I said nostalgia aside. Bcoz nostalgia always makes us look everything with rose tinted glasses. This si especially true for cricket

Current Pat Cummins can replace McGrath in that Australian line up. What they cannot replace is Shane Warne.

I dont agree with that. I think that aus side without mcgrath eas very beatable. He completed that team. Having said the the drop in quality with Cummins instead of mcg won't be much.

Many teams could draw or even win when mcg dint play. When he played they often always end up winning. Greatest bowler of all time without doubt.

 

[kron]

Cummins can't replace McGrath. Cummins averages 26 away from home. McGrath averages 21 away from home.

Cummins also averaged 40 last time in India and was poor in nz and England too.

 

[NishanKonar]

Cummins can't replace McGrath. Cummins averages 26 away from home. McGrath averages 21 away from home.

McGrath had Shane Warne for support. Cummins has Nathan Lyon. Huge difference

It was McGrath & Warne. Not McGrath alone

Look at how Shami ,Ishant , Umesh improved their bowling averages when Bumrah came along

 

[Bhaijaan]

Anything too good is always harder to sustain. Look at what this team has achieved in the last decade. Unbeaten interests at home, highest win % of all teams across formats, lost consistent tournaments team. It’s going to be hard to sustain that obviously and we might see a rough phase during the transition.

But when I look at majority of the talent that exists in Bharatiya cricket today, I get a lot of assurance that we won’t face much trouble. Many young cricketers of today are better than what Kohli, Sharma were at that age. Same in bowling. A lot of bright talent.

It is also possible that the next crop of Bharatiya cricketers are even more determined to win. There’s still lots of achieve. I would rather see us win more test series abroad. Its been a while we won in RSA, England.

 

[shaz619]

It took em a decade to punch above micro-ocrity, it’s down hill from here, we will see these boys begging for UK visa soon.

 

[OldWarHorse]

It took em a decade to punch above micro-ocrity, it’s down hill from here, we will see these boys begging for UK visa soon.

Wow what happened here?

 

[Jazx]

This is why I said nostalgia aside. Bcoz nostalgia always makes us look everything with rose tinted glasses. This si especially true for cricket

Current Pat Cummins can replace McGrath in that Australian line up. What they cannot replace is Shane Warne.

Then you must not have seen Mcgrath enough!!!

 

[Dr_Bassim]

nostalgia aside - Pat Cummins today is as good as peak McGrath. Dave Warner & Travis Head are as good as peak Adam Gilchrist. Australia don't need a keeper batter like Gichrist bcoz they already have a proper allrounder - blaster like Mitch Marsh

The only reason Australia does not dominate world cricket unlike the 90s is today England & India are much stronger that what they were in the 90s

Countries which are process driven dont struggle for long - except for occasional blips due to transition phases. True for Australia & in future India as well.

Nostalgia aside?

McGrath is not your run of the mill bowler like Bumrah.

He is an ATG who eclipses almost every pacer on the planet.

Australia had 4 ATG players and thats why they kept winning, not because India and England werent strong enough.

Give Australia Mcgrath, Warne, Gilchrist and Ponting in their lineup again today and the Aussie team would thrash the living daylights out of current Indian team 9 times out 10.

Revisionism is good but never as good as overestimating current team.

 

[Mesozoic]

McGrath is not your run of the mill bowler like Bumrah.

I know McGrath was a once a lifetime player , but Bumrah is anything but "run of the mill". Please don't carried away.

 

[stani_pak]

I think one player India will have trouble replacing will be Burmah, his impact alone is what helped India be successful. Im sure they will find good bowlers, but do not know if they will have one with his impact

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I know McGrath was a once a lifetime player , but Bumrah is anything but "run of the mill". Please don't carried away.

If Bumrah retires today, he wont be an ATG.

 

[Ab Fan]

If Bumrah retires today, he wont be an ATG.

He will be better than Shoaib Akhtar.

 

[Mesozoic]

If Bumrah retires today, he wont be an ATG.

That's not what "run of the mill" means.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

He will be better than Shoaib Akhtar.

I dont rate Shoaib that much but you cant deny he bowled Tendulkar out for a duck because of sheer pace.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

That's not what "run of the mill" means.

If Bumrah retires today, he has no legacy.

That is run of the mill.

If he keeps on doing the good stuff, he will come very close to ATG. Dont know if he can eclipse Wasim in the best Test team of all time as a Left armer but we will have to see how he evolves.

 

[Ab Fan]

I dont rate Shoaib that much but you cant deny he bowled Tendulkar out for a duck because of sheer pace.

Not a big deal. Pls don't mention it as it sounds like one of Akhtar's biggest achievement. Even Ganguly can bowl out Sachin for a duck once. That hardly means much.

 

[Mesozoic]

If Bumrah retires today, he has no legacy.

That is run of the mill.

If he keeps on doing the good stuff, he will come very close to ATG. Dont know if he can eclipse Wasim in the best Test team of all time as a Left armer but we will have to see how he evolves.

1. "Run of the mill" means average or ordinary. Not everyone who isn't an ATG is an average cricketer. Rating players of any sport won't work like that.

2. How on earth will Bumrah eclipse Wasim as a left armer when he is a right arm fast bowler?

You seem a bit confused.

 

[gani999]

Way back in the 1980s, we were told that Indian cricket would be finished once Kapil Dev and Gavaskar retire.
I don't take such doomsday predictions made by idiots seriously anymore.

 

[Sir Alex]

Nope.

Kohli has hardly been himself in test cricket for a good 4.5 years and has missed many Marquee series and that hasn't affected India at all.

Rohit was never a legend in test cricket. He's a very good batter but India can easily promote Gill to open with Jaiswal

 

[Vikram1989]

Most of the t20s ,odis india won with second choice eleven although india failed to win more icc trophies. This year eng test series was a prime example of young talent coming good.Jaiswal, Jurel, Sarfaraz,Akashdeep came quite good in tough times and situations. After 6 months, Sarfaraz brother totally eclipsed all the above candidates.

 

[BDfanforever]

Ind biggest leverage is their 1.5 billion population, although it is detrimental for other facets.

Aside from Kholi, Rohit, Bumrah, Jadeja and Ashwin is also their ATG players.

 

[gani999]

Come on dude, there’s no need to be disrespectful , it’s a question he asked. Refute his assertion with your own thoughts rather than vitriol. I know you’re better than your response.

I wasn't referring to the OP. I apologise if it sounded like that.
But there have been many so-called 'cricketing experts' and 'journalists' who have said this, and it was them I was referring to.

 

[NishanKonar]

Nostalgia aside?

McGrath is not your run of the mill bowler like Bumrah.

He is an ATG who eclipses almost every pacer on the planet.

Australia had 4 ATG players and thats why they kept winning, not because India and England werent strong enough.

Give Australia Mcgrath, Warne, Gilchrist and Ponting in their lineup again today and the Aussie team would thrash the living daylights out of current Indian team 9 times out 10.

Revisionism is good but never as good as overestimating current team.

This is why I said nostalgia plagues cricket more than any sport

Every past cricketer is assumed to be a GOAT and current day cricketers are considered as nowhere close to them

Much weaker Indian team beat that ATG Australia ( with McGrath / Ponting / Warne) 2-1 in 1998 & 2001. Ponting was literally a bunny on Indian pitches

 

[NishanKonar]

If Bumrah retires today, he wont be an ATG.

If McGrath retired in 1999 even he wud not have been a GOAT as well. Dale Steyn wud not have been a ATG if he retired in 2012

Bumrah needs to reach 300 test wickets to seal his legacy but on current form his skill level is no less than peak McGrath or peak Dale Steyn- if u really analyse them objectively. All 3 have that incredible ability to win matches on their own in away tests with such amazing regularity

 

[NishanKonar]

1. "Run of the mill" means average or ordinary. Not everyone who isn't an ATG is an average cricketer. Rating players of any sport won't work like that.

2. How on earth will Bumrah eclipse Wasim as a left armer when he is a right arm fast bowler?

You seem a bit confused.

Wasim Akram gets his place in most test World XI bcoz he was left arm pacer. On pure wicket taking ability there were many right bowlers ahead of him in the pecking order - Dennis Lillee, Malcolm Marshall, McGrath, Dale Steyn, Richard Hadlee

 

[Ab Fan]

Wasim Akram gets his place in most test World XI bcoz he was left arm pacer. On pure wicket taking ability there were many right bowlers ahead of him in the pecking order - Dennis Lillee, Malcolm Marshall, McGrath, Dale Steyn, Richard Hadlee

Curtly Ambrose as well

 

[NishanKonar]

Curtly Ambrose as well

Ambrose & Wasim Akram were actually almost similar in wicket taking abilities. I wud pick Wasim Akram for tests in Asia and and Ambrose for tests in West Indies , England , Australia & South Africa

 

[jnaveen1980]

India has plethora of batsmen to replace. Just need a management to get them play together as a team. I won't mind one bit if Rohit and Kohli retire right now from one dayers. Infact i didn't even want them in the SL series.

 

[NishanKonar]

India has plethora of batsmen to replace. Just need a management to get them play together as a team. I won't mind one bit if Rohit and Kohli retire right now from one dayers. Infact i didn't even want them in the SL series.

Ideally Rohit & Kohli should retire from ODIs. But I guess they want that ICC trophy ( 2025 CT) before retirement. Hope that's the end

 

[Savak]

Don't think so. There is too much talent, money, hunger to perform, role models and most important merit and systems in their structure. The replacements are perfectly capable and qualified, they beat a full strength Australia in Australia with their C-D team in 2021, no other nation can replicate this.

 

[mominsaigol]

This is why I said nostalgia aside. Bcoz nostalgia always makes us look everything with rose tinted glasses. This si especially true for cricket

Current Pat Cummins can replace McGrath in that Australian line up. What they cannot replace is Shane Warne.

Yes but why are you assuming nostalgia applies to everyone?

You seriously think Pat cummings is remotely capable of bundling India with 4 wickets and only conceding 8 runs in 10 overs? That too with a lineup of ganguly, Tendulkar, VVS laxman as your top 3?

 

[mominsaigol]

SL are not minnows. Kamindu Mendis is better than every batsman in Pakistan

Well pakistan are also minnows now lol

 

[mominsaigol]

This is why I said nostalgia plagues cricket more than any sport

Every past cricketer is assumed to be a GOAT and current day cricketers are considered as nowhere close to them

Much weaker Indian team beat that ATG Australia ( with McGrath / Ponting / Warne) 2-1 in 1998 & 2001. Ponting was literally a bunny on Indian pitches

A much weaker aussie team thrashed current Indian team black and blue in wc final in their home den on their own curated pitches designed to give them any advantage and thrashed them in wtc final.

This they won that or that doesn't matter. Classic Australia dominated an entire era.

 

[mominsaigol]

If McGrath retired in 1999 even he wud not have been a GOAT as well. Dale Steyn wud not have been a ATG if he retired in 2012

Bumrah needs to reach 300 test wickets to seal his legacy but on current form his skill level is no less than peak McGrath or peak Dale Steyn- if u really analyse them objectively. All 3 have that incredible ability to win matches on their own in away tests with such amazing regularity

No it isn't. Only steyn and bumrah are debatable.

Not mcgrath amd bumrah. Nostalgia has made you blind to mcgrath's capabilities, not the other way around.

Mcgrath 95% of the time would bowl perfect line and length in the exact same area which is the hardest feat to achieve in world cricket.

Every other bowler including bumrah has multiple times in almost every match given a loosner, aka maybe a full toss, or a wide or bowled 1 to 3 bad overs, and on occasion he's had off days especially against Travis Head.

Mcgrath didn't, Mcgrath only 5% of the time had off days bit otherwise 95% of the time all 60 of his deliveries in odi and every delivery in test was perfectly onsong.

The only other bowler to ever be as consistent in length as he was, was probably Joel Garner.

Wasim Akram may have had that banana swing, bumrah's hyperextension makes him ridiculously difficult to judge his line and length but None of these 2 could bowl exactly the same area 24/7 like mcgrath could.

Theirs a reason even Sachin in 2003 final couldn't play mcgrath. That perfect line and length being bowled in the exact same area is beyond frustrating to deal with. Mcgrath would never allow you to drive or play conventional cricket shots like pulling. He'd force you to loft 24/7 which is why you'd get out lol.

 

[NishanKonar]

A much weaker aussie team thrashed current Indian team black and blue in wc final in their home den on their own curated pitches designed to give them any advantage and thrashed them in wtc final.

This they won that or that doesn't matter. Classic Australia dominated an entire era.

The current Australia is not weak. Its as good as India if not better. Again its not about who won or lost. Australia beat India in WC final just like India beat them at Gabba.

Point is if India had Bumrah & Kohli in the 90s - we wud not have got whitewashed in that 1999 series in Australia. It wud have been much closer.

 

[NishanKonar]

No it isn't. Only steyn and bumrah are debatable.

Not mcgrath amd bumrah. Nostalgia has made you blind to mcgrath's capabilities, not the other way around.

Mcgrath 95% of the time would bowl perfect line and length in the exact same area which is the hardest feat to achieve in world cricket.

Every other bowler including bumrah has multiple times in almost every match given a loosner, aka maybe a full toss, or a wide or bowled 1 to 3 bad overs, and on occasion he's had off days especially against Travis Head.

Mcgrath didn't, Mcgrath only 5% of the time had off days bit otherwise 95% of the time all 60 of his deliveries in odi and every delivery in test was perfectly onsong.

The only other bowler to ever be as consistent in length as he was, was probably Joel Garner.

Wasim Akram may have had that banana swing, bumrah's hyperextension makes him ridiculously difficult to judge his line and length but None of these 2 could bowl exactly the same area 24/7 like mcgrath could.

Theirs a reason even Sachin in 2003 final couldn't play mcgrath. That perfect line and length being bowled in the exact same area is beyond frustrating to deal with. Mcgrath would never allow you to drive or play conventional cricket shots like pulling. He'd force you to loft 24/7 which is why you'd get out lol.

If u actualy watched McGrath - he bowled lots of loose deliveries in ODIs. He was actually a liability in the slog overs bcoz of his inability to bowl yorkers. This is why nostalgia often clouds ur judgement

Pls dont big one off examples. Yes McGrath got Sachin out cheaply in 2003 final bcoz Australia had 359 on board. No way India was going to chase that. Sachin had no choice but to start slogging from 1st over and got out to loose shot - which he wud have never played if we were not chasing 360

Right not Bumrah's consistency is McGrathesque. Like everytime India gets into a spot of bother and needs a wicket - Bumrah delivers with amazing regularity

And unlike McGrath who was impeccable in test cricket but sometimes off color in ODIs - Bumrah does it in all formats with equal effectiveness. Right now Bumrah is No 1 bowlers in all 3 formats. McGrath was generally the No 1/2 in tests from 1997-2005 but in ODIs he was never consistently a Top 5 bowler

 

[mominsaigol]

If u actualy watched McGrath - he bowled lots of loose deliveries in ODIs. He was actually a liability in the slog overs bcoz of his inability to bowl yorkers. This is why nostalgia often clouds ur judgement

Pls dont big one off examples. Yes McGrath got Sachin out cheaply in 2003 final bcoz Australia had 359 on board. No way India was going to chase that. Sachin had no choice but to start slogging from 1st over and got out to loose shot - which he wud have never played if we were not chasing 360

Right not Bumrah's consistency is McGrathesque. Like everytime India gets into a spot of bother and needs a wicket - Bumrah delivers with amazing regularity

And unlike McGrath who was impeccable in test cricket but sometimes off color in ODIs - Bumrah does it in all formats with equal effectiveness. Right now Bumrah is No 1 bowlers in all 3 formats. McGrath was generally the No 1/2 in tests from 1997-2005 but in ODIs he was never consistently a Top 5 bowler

I've seen mcgrath play lol, and I have live footage on hand as well.

Trust me when I'm saying this that you're wrong from every front.

 

[NishanKonar]

I've seen mcgrath play lol, and I have live footage on hand as well.

Trust me when I'm saying this that you're wrong from every front.

It does not matter how much u watched someone play. Everyone here has watched lot of cricket live - including those who claimed Babar Azam is better than Kohli or Shaheen Shah is better than Bumrah !

In terms of skill & impact - Bumrah is on par with McGrath in test cricket but better in white ball cricket. Only thing for Bumrah is to maintain fitness & reach that 300 wicket mark to be officially crowned as ATG

Anyways we can always disagree

 

[NishanKonar]

I dont believe in nostalgia arguments. I will still say Sachin, Lara & KP are better than any present day test batters. Adam Gilchrist is better than any present day keeper batter. Shane Warne & Murali mogs every spinner. Waqar Younis had the most lethal yorker in cricket. Also Graham Thorpe was better than any present day England test batter. Martin Crowe was better than Kane Williamson

But no Bumrah is not a run of the mill bowler in front of McGrath. That's a gross exaggeration

 

[NishanKonar]

Bumrah , McGrath & Dale Steyn are the 3 best fast bowlers of the last 30 years in test cricket

Malinga, Wasim Akram & Bumrah are the 3 best in white ball cricket

Only 1 bowler makes it to both lists. That's Bumrah !

I take 30 years bcoz that's the horizon I have actually watched live !

 

[RexRex]

In terms of skill & impact - Bumrah is on par with McGrath in test cricket but better in white ball cricket. Only thing for Bumrah is to maintain fitness & reach that 300 wicket mark to be officially crowned as ATG

Bumrah has nothing to prove anymore, he is the One.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Bumrah , McGrath & Dale Steyn are the 3 best fast bowlers of the last 30 years in test cricket

Malinga, Wasim Akram & Bumrah are the 3 best in white ball cricket

Only 1 bowler makes it to both lists. That's Bumrah !

I take 30 years bcoz that's the horizon I have actually watched live !

It's your own created list bro you can't state it as fact.

 

[NishanKonar]

It's your own created list bro you can't state it as fact.

Of course when u say some player is best - its always subjective. There is never a definite answer. Like people still argue who is better - Messi or Cristiano

My best 3 in test cricket & white ball cricket will be these guys

U can make ur own list - based on ur own assumptions

 

[NishanKonar]

Bumrah has nothing to prove anymore, he is the One.

Naah

he must reach 300 test wickets to reach ATG status & become automatic choice for a place in world XIs

Like Messi was a ATG but needed a WC to seal his legacy as the GOAT

 

[Ahmed216]

Well pakistan are also minnows now lol

Pak definitely are.
SL have played a decent series in Eng and are about to win a test match. Something Pak or any other minnow side cannot dream of atm

 

[RexRex]

Naah

he must reach 300 test wickets to reach ATG status & become automatic choice for a place in world XIs

Like Messi was a ATG but needed a WC to seal his legacy as the GOAT

I've never seen Bumrah fail in the last 6 years in any format, in any game. That is good enough for me.

 

[NishanKonar]

I've never seen Bumrah fail in the last 6 years in any format, in any game. That is good enough for me.

That's what I keep saying. He delivers with such amazing regularity. Very rarely see him fail. McGrath had that consistency in test cricket but in ODIs he had his fair share of off color days

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Yes that's why india won the world T20, World Cup 2023 finalist, WTC finalists , won last 2 test series in australia , draw last test series in england and South Africa , Humiliated every test nations in india .


Now can i show the world best team pakistan success story to you??

India won the World Cup because of your legendary jinxing skills. The BCCI should definitely put you in a trophy case, right next to the World Cup.

 

[mominsaigol]

Slightly above average

Their a world class team, only England on song and Australia can reasonably get rid of them in a cup.

But indian posters comparing this team to classic Australia is hilarious. This current India team had heart attacks against pakistan, had heart attacks against sa, had heart attacks againat Australia and were literally riding axar patels, Rohit sharma's and Bunrah's coattails for victories.

2024 India would get demolished black and blue by classic Australia. 2023 India loses badly in aussie home den, but in their own den with those curated pitches it's debatable, however even then I don't see them winning

 

[jnaveen1980]

Their a world class team, only England on song and Australia can reasonably get rid of them in a cup.

But indian posters comparing this team to classic Australia is hilarious. This current India team had heart attacks against pakistan, had heart attacks against sa, had heart attacks againat Australia and were literally riding axar patels, Rohit sharma's and Bunrah's coattails for victories.

2024 India would get demolished black and blue by classic Australia. 2023 India loses badly in aussie home den, but in their own den with those curated pitches it's debatable, however even then I don't see them winning

India did draw the Test series in Australia against classic Australia.

 

[mominsaigol]

India did draw the Test series in Australia against classic Australia.

Classic Australia is not unbeatable, but they are dominant and dominated an entire era.

2015 Australia isn't even close to classic Australia but ik confidently that they'll beat Current India in their home den or overseas, but will lose to them in india's own den unless it's a wc final.

I'm speaking from a completly unbiased standpoint, Current India overseas or in any Asian conditon not curated by them will get demolished by classic Australia. They can't handle their bowlers,

The likes of Current kohli, Current rohit and the openers be it Gill, jaiswal as well as the middle order like rahul/Pant or whoever are walking wickets against them?

 

[RexRex]

India did draw the Test series in Australia against classic Australia.

That was backbencher Australia, no Mcgrath and Warne on that 2004 tour.

 

[NishanKonar]

Classic Australia is not unbeatable, but they are dominant and dominated an entire era.

2015 Australia isn't even close to classic Australia but ik confidently that they'll beat Current India in their home den or overseas, but will lose to them in india's own den unless it's a wc final.

I'm speaking from a completly unbiased standpoint, Current India overseas or in any Asian conditon not curated by them will get demolished by classic Australia. They can't handle their bowlers,

The likes of Current kohli, Current rohit and the openers be it Gill, jaiswal as well as the middle order like rahul/Pant or whoever are walking wickets against them?

That ATG Australia team got bowled out in 1 session by Ajit Agarkar of all people at Adelaide and lost a test after scoring 550 plus in 1st innings. Imagine them facing Bumrah & Shami !

Look even we can say such things - but that's not how how things work out. I grew up hearing similar stories how West Indies of the 80s wud smash the Australia of 2000s and so on !

This is why I keep saying - no other sport is so plagued by nostalgia bias as cricket

 

[mominsaigol]

That ATG Australia team got bowled out in 1 session by Ajit Agarkar of all people at Adelaide and lost a test after scoring 550 plus in 1st innings. Imagine them facing Bumrah & Shami !

Look even we can say such things - but that's not how how things work out. I grew up hearing similar stories how West Indies of the 80s wud smash the Australia of 2000s and so on !

This is why I keep saying - no other sport is so plagued by nostalgia bias as cricket

Brother, you compared Mcgrath to cummings, I'm gonna assume you're an Indian poster, so if you are, no disrespect but your hindsight will be biased towards that of India lol.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Classic Australia is not unbeatable, but they are dominant and dominated an entire era.

2015 Australia isn't even close to classic Australia but ik confidently that they'll beat Current India in their home den or overseas, but will lose to them in india's own den unless it's a wc final.

I'm speaking from a completly unbiased standpoint, Current India overseas or in any Asian conditon not curated by them will get demolished by classic Australia. They can't handle their bowlers,

The likes of Current kohli, Current rohit and the openers be it Gill, jaiswal as well as the middle order like rahul/Pant or whoever are walking wickets against them?

There are some match ups that will work better in era. Some match ups won't go well. Bumrah/Shami/Siraj/Ashwin/Jadeja match up will be a completely different ball game compared to Agarkar/Irfan pathan/Harbhajan/Kumble/Zaheer. Next comes batting. Apart from Mcgrath there is nobody from 2000 that are as good current trio. Ofcourse Warne probbaly will trouble the current set of batsmen unlike Laxman who scored 2000 runs against Australia in the 2000s. That match up will favor Australia. Australia scored 556 at Adelaide oval against India and yet went on to lose the Test match. Because India had batting might to match them. In current era you can't score 500 that easily against this unit.

 

[NishanKonar]

Brother, you compared Mcgrath to cummings, I'm gonna assume you're an Indian poster, so if you are, no disrespect but your hindsight will be biased towards that of India lol.

I don't get it

Both Mcgrath & Cummins are Australians. How can I as an Indian be biased towards 2 Aussies

 

[Dr_Bassim]

The ATG Australian team dominated 1999, 2003 and 2007 World Cups and beat everyone everywhere except India.

There is no better team anywhere.

Current India?

Laughable to compare them to ATG Australia.

I watched that era and Australians were mostly invincible.

Current Indian team hasnt even won a ODI World Cup which was made for India on Indian designed pitches.