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Will MS Dhoni and Kedar Jadhav cost India dearly at the 2019 World Cup?

So, Dhoni is technique personified or what? Dhoni has maximized his limited batting potential, he never had great technique but was effective. Let me repeat Pant can do no worse than what KL Rahul/ Jadhav and Dhoni displayed against Afghanistan. It was disgusting to watch such pathetic display with no intent specially from Jadhav and Dhoni.
 
As Dhawan is absent, I will go with this XI:-

Rohit
Rahul
Kohli
Dhoni
Pant
Shankar/Jadhav
Pandya
Shami
Kuldeep
Chahal
Bumrah

India's batting is highly dependent on Rohit and Kohli as Dhawan is no longer a part of WC. This is a big mess and to replace Dhawan, India have to and have to pick a specialist bat.

The tail begins at 8 with Mohammad Shami. There is not much batting out there after no. 7. So, a specialist bat is needed and Pant has to be there in the XI to boost the batting lineup. Rahul is good as opener but nothing special. He will not win matches in WC the way Dhawan did for India. So, apart from Rohit, Kohli and Dhoni, we definitely need to have Rahul and Pant in the team.So, a total 5 specialist bat along with Pandya and Jadhav/Vijay who will fill 5th bowling option for the team.
 
So, Dhoni is technique personified or what? Dhoni has maximized his limited batting potential, he never had great technique but was effective. Let me repeat Pant can do no worse than what KL Rahul/ Jadhav and Dhoni displayed against Afghanistan. It was disgusting to watch such pathetic display with no intent specially from Jadhav and Dhoni.
This!

In any case, Jadhav is completely under grandpa's spell, owes his place in CSK to grandpa.
 
People still lambaste Tendulkar for that 100th 100 against Bangaldesh. Grandpa has played at least a dozen such innings since last WC alone. When will he be castigated for him being totally past it?
 
You need to make peace with the fact dhoni is undroppable. His business interests are in hundreds of crores and lot of money riding on him. He will retire when he and the business interests want.

His captaincy and guidance is still pretty good I won't deny that but his batting lets us down a lot recently.
Considering we can't drop dhoni team management and selectors should have ensured we selected players who can hide dhonis shortcomings in batting. Dhawans injury didn't help us but having jadhav+Shankar+dhoni is criminal. 2 years we had a chance to groom players for this world cup yet we stuck with kartick, rayudu, jadhav, Shankar etc.

We deserve to lose this one.

Don’t know about this business interests conspiracy but didn’t he already indicate that he would like to play 2023 Home World Cup
 
but didn’t he already indicate that he would like to play 2023 Home World Cup
Thank god, haven't read anything like that anywhere. If however what you say is true, I'll officially stop following Indian cricket.
 
India can become a strong team only by correcting all the loopholes. India always had strong batting order (both TOP & MIDDLE Order) at least for last 10 to 20 years... The issue was with the bowling (pacers particularly), death bowling, late middle order (WK & bowling-alrounders - which was sorted out after Dravid started keeping wickets and much more after Dhoni's emergence!) and also we didn't have wrist spinners (the ones who can turn the ball outside SC on flat pitches), also the fielding/running-between wickets (athleticism) were not up to the mark (bowlers were invariably slow movers in the field with weak throwing abilities!). Opposition used to exploit all these weaknesses and that's why India were not able to win as many matches even with their excellent batting lineup (best example World Cup 2003 finals)!

But now most of these issues are sorted out (pace bowling, death bowling, fielding, running, wrist-spin...) But we seemed to have went down in our actual strong area - batting! (Even there we are so good at TOP order - our current Top Order is as good or better than our all time TOP order!) The middle order has gone weak surprisingly and also the power-hitting capacities in late overs (except one of the Top order remains in the end overs!) Still we are winning many matches because we have improved in all other areas! But the concern is what if the opposition goes smart and exploits this particular weakness in key matches by applying pressure (like CT Finals!) If the opposition is decent and if they work out right strategies they can be successful in doing this! That's the worry!

That's why I always kept thinking of not leaving any loopholes in the side... Pant should have been a must in the middle order for the X-factor he brings! People kept depending on Dhoni (for his ghost-captaincy, for his experience, for his stumping, whatever!) But as the OP says, it can act decisive in winning/losing this WC (our team is too good compared to other teams - our team is most rounded and definitely capable of winning this cup compared to all other teams!) So we may lose this cup just for this sole reason and nobody should be surprised (we will reach Semis and maybe even Finals! And if we lose then I am sure most people may tell that we came this far because of Dhoni's experience and that all our selections are perfect! That's unfortunate!)

But now after
 
Anyone, who has seen the match against Afghanistan will be fuming seeing the struggles of KL Rahul/Vijay Shankar/Dhoni and Jadhav. It is not about the strike rate, but the way they seemed to play these bowlers, as if the pitch was a final day Bangalore square turner on which Gavaskar scored legendary knock. Jadhav playing a maiden in the 47th over is criminal, what the hell was he thinking and this fellow during that innings changed gloves and bats thrice and had at least couple of times drinks, what was that all about? He huffs and puffs when he runs between the wickets and the same is the case with his fielding.

Dhoni has been a great captain and level headed guy but he is well past it now, his batting and his reflexes are on the wane, and he has to step up in the coming matches, and need to take these matches like WC matches instead of his CSK matches, where he can take the game deep unnecessarily and come out as a hero in the last over.

Vijay Shankar, I really don't know how this guy is picked, seems very average player.

KL Rahul is just eking his way into the team and playing for himself and getting out to stupid shots after building pressure on himself with straight bat shots to fielders/ leaving the balls alone, instead of placing them for quick singles and doing strike rotation.
 
India know what works for them and they are a team focused towards executing their best strategy. Batting-wise, they are probably the best team when it comes to crafting a 300+ total. And I'm talking crafting, not going gung-ho like England do on flat wickets. Now, they are also very confident in their bowling which they know can defend totals for them. The way I see it India is probably the best side at the WC.
 
India know what works for them and they are a team focused towards executing their best strategy. Batting-wise, they are probably the best team when it comes to crafting a 300+ total. And I'm talking crafting, not going gung-ho like England do on flat wickets. Now, they are also very confident in their bowling which they know can defend totals for them. The way I see it India is probably the best side at the WC.

Before dhawan injury.Now rohit-kohli or done.
 
Were you sleeping during India vs Australia match? :inti

Dhoni played a very good innings of 27 of 14 ( a rare innings nowdays for him) but was overshadowed by Pandyas 48 of 27...an innings which you slept through probably or closed your eyes to pretend it is not happening.
Anyway for Indias sake ..hopefully Dhoni manages 5 more such innings over next 5 matches
 
So, Dhoni is technique personified or what? Dhoni has maximized his limited batting potential, he never had great technique but was effective. Let me repeat Pant can do no worse than what KL Rahul/ Jadhav and Dhoni displayed against Afghanistan. It was disgusting to watch such pathetic display with no intent specially from Jadhav and Dhoni.

He is an attacking cricketer, meaning high risk, at the next level the bowlers will be hard to smash around. They will also study him more, better to start him fresh again after the WC and not experiment during WC.
 
Before dhawan injury.Now rohit-kohli or done.

You're underrating Rahul. He's a good player. Dhoni despite not being the same is still pretty dependable. And Jadhav showed his importance by playing a crunch innings against Afghanistan.

Every team's batting obviously revolves around 2-3 players. For Pakistan it's Fakhar, Imam, Babar. The rest of the players play around them.
 
An Indian middle order with Shankar, present day Dhoni, Kedar...
Who would have thought !
 
Dhoni played a very good innings of 27 of 14 ( a rare innings nowdays for him) but was overshadowed by Pandyas 48 of 27...an innings which you slept through probably or closed your eyes to pretend it is not happening.
Anyway for Indias sake ..hopefully Dhoni manages 5 more such innings over next 5 matches

I did watch Pandya's inning. Alex Carey gave him a life. Just shows how irresponsible he was. Dhoni came in at a position where he had to go for the big shots and he did without even facing any spinner.

In our match against Afghanistan, Dhoni had to stay at the wicket otherwise we would have lost that match. :inti
 
I did watch Pandya's inning. Alex Carey gave him a life. Just shows how irresponsible he was. Dhoni came in at a position where he had to go for the big shots and he did without even facing any spinner.

In our match against Afghanistan, Dhoni had to stay at the wicket otherwise we would have lost that match. :inti

Yeah Dhoni channeled his inner computer and assessed 225 score was good enough to beat them.
 
India has been winning matches primarily because of their wonder all round bowling attack.


Dhavan is a big loss as it provides an opening and also a chance of exposing kohli ealry in
the innings. As we get deep into the tournament pitch's have started to provide assistance
to spinners and reverse swing will also come into effect.

India just can't trust its two premier batsmen Kohli and Rohit to take them to victories.
middle order will be tested and needs to deliver. Everyone can see chinks in the Indian
middle order when recently Aussies toured India.

However India has a bowling attack to die for and fantastic fielding to back it up plus India
is mentally new Australia. Only team which will handle their spin duo well have chance to
succeed against them.

However Dhavan loss and a brittle middle order will cause a letdown somewhere.
 
You are a perfect example of a fan who can't even respect Indian legends but will go after anyone who criticises unfinished and unproven players like Pandya or Pant.

Did Dhoni come into the team as a born legend or was he also once an unfinished and unproven players like Pandya or Pant.???
 
My problem is with Rahul.. Has a modest list A record means his technique for all conditions is not up to the mark & he lacks the temperament to construct an inns.It showed in the match against Afghans too.
w.r.t Dhoni, I think it has more to do with Afghan's brilliant spin attack+ the slowness of the wkt in addition to Dhoni's slowing reflexes due to aging. It was the same Dhoni who won 3 matches vs AUS chasing and scoring 3 50s while maintaining a decent str: .So i think Dhoni would be ok in the coming matches. It is Rahul on which I have serious doubts about.
 
Jadhav out for 7 vs West Indies, another poor showing with the bat. Does he deserve to keep his place?
 
Jadav.... Shankar..... Dhoni..... Pandya..... Rahul....

It's amazing how India is winning even with 5 passengers in the team. Shows how good the bowling is.
 
So frustrating and annoying. Only a loss in knockouts against Pakistan will make heads turn. Otherwise no one will care.
 
Shankar, Dhoni, Jadhav should never be part of the middle order. 3 similar type batsmen who cannot accelerate at will.

I agree with the poster above. Our bowling is saving our poor middle order.
 
Dhoni saved India today!
Had it been India of olde, they would have folded under 200.

Steady rotation , crisp placement, fast running and acceleration at the end is what everyone prays for in such a situation as this.
What are you whinging about?

Contrast this with NZ yesterday, they couldnt accelerate as well as India did and were 40 runs short and lost.
Not all scores of 300+ are an automatic possibility
 
26.1
W
Bumrah to Brathwaite, OUT, terrific take by Dhoni
CR Brathwaite c †Dhoni b Bumrah 1 (5b 0x4 0x6) SR: 20.00

lol

Was a brilliant catch but that doesn't take away the fact his keeping today has been below average.
 
Have been repeating the same since long, Dhoni is done. His reflexes are gone and he cannot win us matches if the asking rate is >10. Sad to see such a great ODI player and captain playing such a pathetic innings today. As I said earlier, Pant would do no worse than Dhoni and Kedar has been proved. Again, the way Dhoni and Jadhav played was utterly shameful.

Also, it seems now Dhoni Review System is messing us big time.

Time for Jadhav to go and bring in DK. Also, KL Rahul play has been so disappointing, if these players are struggling on such a batting paradise, then our chances are very slim to win the cup.

Dhoni's play has been totally shameful. What you say@Bhaag Viru Bhaag :inti
 
Dhoni is being played on his past reputation
Unfortunate. He should have ended at 2015 . India are paying for this
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The MS Dhoni and Kedar Jadhav partnership:<br><br>31 balls<br>39 runs<br>7 dots <br>20 singles <br>3 fours <br>1 six<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ENGvIND?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ENGvIND</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CWC19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CWC19</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1145392094758035458?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 30, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The MS Dhoni and Kedar Jadhav partnership:<br><br>31 balls<br>39 runs<br>7 dots <br>20 singles <br>3 fours <br>1 six<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ENGvIND?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ENGvIND</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CWC19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CWC19</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1145392094758035458?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 30, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
For some, it is ok. After all they scored more than we did in first 10 overs. Logic just died, lol.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The MS Dhoni and Kedar Jadhav partnership:<br><br>31 balls<br>39 runs<br>7 dots <br>20 singles <br>3 fours <br>1 six<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ENGvIND?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ENGvIND</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CWC19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CWC19</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1145392094758035458?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 30, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Pandya - Dhoni Partnership: 41 off 34 balls.. Pandya 23 off 21 balls, and Dhoni 16 off 13 balls.. Match lost there, Pandya can't able to hit out after they've long off and long on..
 
India has 3 keepers. Both DK and Pant are in better hitting form. Yet we continue going with this old man. Just to accommodate him and his CSK mate Jadhav india is willing to lose the world cup.
 
It’s was the opening that costed us the match, dhoni batter better than most people.
 
I am surprised to see so many passengers in the Indian team. I thought that BCCI was a professionally run board and its system would be run in a way that the best talent would make it to the top. So many flawed decisions have been made by them however.

1) selecting DK over Pant in the squad and then playing Pant over DK in the match

2) what’s the role of Kedar

3) Vijay S really?

4) moving KL to open when he had just started to settle at 4.
 
Everyone knew this. It was bound to happen, fans like us prayed it happened in group game and not in knockouts. Unfortunately God had other things in this mind. Kohli and Rohit failed and rest of the batsmen couldn't do anything.

Dhoni should be ashamed of himself, hiding down the order. From 2011 to 2019 and he acted like a coward here. Should have come at #4 and stabilized the innings. Whatever little respect I had for dhoni is now gone, garbage selfish human being.
 
Absolutely dismal performance. His game perfectly suited to the role at no. 4 today. Coming even behind Pant and Pandya is terrible call.
 
Not his fault

Don't let youngsters grow in last 2 years because of selfish reasons. Then when big match comes push the youngsters who don't have experience because of you only in middle of a furnace while you sit back and wait for conditions to become easier to pad your stats.

Still not his fault? :)
 
27 off 51 and putting pressure on his team-mates.

Still there though.
 
Dhoni should have retired after the 2015 World Cup. He has been a passenger for years now.
 
Bump
When will the team management realise that this guy has no future.
He is already 34 and will be 38 by the next worldcup.
When was the last time this guy played an impactful innings?
 
Bump
When will the team management realise that this guy has no future.
He is already 34 and will be 38 by the next worldcup.
When was the last time this guy played an impactful innings?

The only reason I can think of him finding a place in the team is that he has some influential god father, who's ensuring he gets selected. Otherwise once you dropped him from world cup playing xi in the middle of the tournament then how did he get back in the team post world cup. Ditto for Dinesh Karthik who keeps getting back in squad even after 15 years of international failure.
 
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