Will Pakistan ever become a consistently good cricket team?

[BunnyRabbit]

It's not a knee jerk reaction or emotional post.

We have been hearing since forever the terms unpredictables and the cornered tigers, but the unpredictables have become predictably inferior to better teams and the cornered tigers are usually found meowing alone.
It's become pretty standard to expect Pakistan to be really poor in the first few games before putting up a few good performances in the tours and tournaments and at times even those late good performances are found wanting. It was extremely predictable for Pakistan to start the 2019 wc by losing to WI. Similar stuff happened in 2015wc and 2007wc. On Australian tours, you are better off putting a bet on sinking titanic to complete its voyage rather than Pakistan winning a Test. England is the only place where we have put up spirited performances but even they have been filled up with inconsistency.

Since 2003, I have been hearing about rebuilding the team, giving youngsters time, fresh start and all that. But we again have had middling few years, failure to win wc, then the whole cycling beginning again with "fresh new players", "fresh new captain", "youngsters" and all that.

Back in 90s when everyone called us unpredictables, it made sense cause we used to win a lot and then would run into a wall, like losing to ban in wc99, losing in australia 3-0, losing to england at home, getting run close by kenya but there were sharjah cup victories, test victories in nz, india, south africa and stuff.

With time, our talent pool has either been diminishing or is not getting polished well due to inadequacies of the system and poor governance. Gone are the days when natural raw talent was enough to power out other teams. Cricket has become a lot more sophisticated with time, with modern technology having taken over. Modern methods, equipment, training and knowledge has led to maximizing one's ability. We have done poorly in that regard as well. We have failed to catch up on that as well. Our egos have either told us we are better without such new fancy stuff or we have just not thought about implementing and using all that to our advantage.

Even in 2000s, there were victories over India, Australia, NZ, Asia Cup, wt20 09 and others, but the good performances have gone missing far more than they had ever been and the gap is only getting wider by the day.

So when is the time when our team and the whole cricketing fraternity of Pakistan will take it on the chin and realize we are simply not good enough anymore and we need to work extremely hard to catch up with the world?

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

Yes, Pakistan will become a powerhouse in the 2nd half of this decade Godwilling.
For me, results in the short term dont matter at all, because I see the bigger picture.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yes, Pakistan will become a powerhouse in the 2nd half of this decade Godwilling.
For me, results in the short term dont matter at all, because I see the bigger picture.

Haven't we been seeing the bigger picture since 2003?

 

[hitthestump]

Just think how bad India were 30 years ago.

England were even worse than that.

 

[Markhor]

Honestly I'm surprised on the few occasions we do manage to beat a top team nowadays.

The consistency will only come when we fix our grassroots coaching. We need to start putting as much effort into training coaches as we do players. How can our homegrown coaching capacity be so dire that Misbah and Waqar are our Head Coach and Bowling Coach ?! Only Mohammad Wasim and a handful of others are making any difference.

Also while domestic pitches have improved, we need to inject more pace and bounce into them. This UAE/low bounce wicket style of cricket is hopeless in the Southern Hemisphere.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Yes, Pakistan will become a powerhouse in the 2nd half of this decade Godwilling.
For me, results in the short term dont matter at all, because I see the bigger picture.

This. Consistency requires work, it requires a system. For the first time in my life, I now see a system being put in place. The results won’t be quick, nor will there be a silver bullet. But 10 years from now, 2019-2020 will be in the record books of Pakistan cricket history.

 

[Markhor]

Cricket has become a lot more sophisticated with time, with modern technology having taken over. Modern methods, equipment, training and knowledge has led to maximizing one's ability.

I agree with this as well. I don't know what our analytics team does, but top teams are meticulously using data to formulate strategies. We are still stuck in "our talented matchwinners will overcome the opposition" 1990s school of thought.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Honestly I'm surprised on the few occasions we do manage to beat a top team nowadays.

The consistency will only come when we fix our grassroots coaching. We need to start putting as much effort into training coaches as we do players. How can our homegrown coaching capacity be so dire that Misbah and Waqar are our Head Coach and Bowling Coach ?! Only Mohammad Wasim and a handful of others are making any difference.

Also while domestic pitches have improved, we need to inject more pace and bounce into them. This UAE/low bounce wicket style of cricket is hopeless in the Southern Hemisphere.

I think you also know the answer to that question already. In Pakistan, if you are close or in good books of those in power, you will get the job regardless of your qualifications. But I think Azhar Mahmood and Mushtaq Ahmed might be the only two properly trained coaches from Pakistan. I may be wrong though. All others are just about motivating the players and "Jaan maro" type coaches.

Improvement is not a question of when now but if sadly.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

Haven't we been seeing the bigger picture since 2003?

False comparison.
We never took the bitter pill to change our domestic structure and fire the dinosaurs at the PCB until last year, so bringing up everything before that is futile.

As Wasim khan mentioned in an interview that Pakistan develop players not because of the system but despite the system.

If you observed domestic cricket this year and compare it to the past in terms of the level of competition and the clarity of progression route now available to the players, you will know how much of a change there is.

Obviously there are still a lot of inadequacies there as it is a work-in-progress, however, now there is a genuine effort being put into revive our cricket which was never done before.

Consequently, there is also a sudden influx of young talent in all departments which wasn't the case in the last decade.

Now it is a matter sitting in and being patient so that this new system can produce results, and for me we will get a good picture of this in the 3, 4 years.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

This. Consistency requires work, it requires a system. For the first time in my life, I now see a system being put in place. The results won’t be quick, nor will there be a silver bullet. But 10 years from now, 2019-2020 will be in the record books of Pakistan cricket history.

Absolutely, and I have a very firm vision that we will revive as a team in the 2nd half of this decade.
We have the talent coming in; just need to develop it and i believe we will finally manage to do that, InshaAllah.

 

[Titan24]

"Ever" is a pretty vast term. Thing is cricketing fraternity has realized over the last decade or so that system isnt working and that is why we saw different sort of compositions in the previous 18-20 teams QAE. There were clubs which didnt even exist and school cricket was pretty much finished.

Even at the domestic level it should have been decided long ago that departmental cricket is not a suitable long term system, yes it was probably need of the hour at that time but eventual transition to proper system should have happen in the 90s itself. What happened to the previous structure was always on the cards, only question was when. There was extreme level of politics involved in the departments and none of them came under PCB directly, organizations involved in the departments in the current world dynamics had a lot on their plate and they were neither much interested or much dedicated towards their cricket teams. Thats why we saw eventual closure of some departmental cricket teams in the last decade.

For any sport in any country, the basics of a decent system are:

1) Creating interest of that particular sport among kids (With yearly tours with stars, career road map, and match screenings or invitations to stadiums along with many other ways)

2) Second is in cashing that interest by having a proper grassroot system within schools, collages and universities with yearly competitions, marketing and prizes. Involving govt bodies to recognize success of educational institutes in sports will also push the school management further to have a good team so that their reputation can grow.

3) Then comes the filtration part in which clubs, city level associations and district associations come in. They will do two things, firstly will filter out the top players from grass root structure which will include educational institutes as well as will provide opportunities for the players who might not be privileged to get into educational institutions or if they did go maybe they didnt have enough facilities. This part requires a proper accountability process and coaches in position.

4) After having a competitive structure in place for step 3, only then comes the main FC structure. Players filtered out will be selected for U-16, U-19 and 2nd XIs and their eventual transition to main FC teams will require consistent performances at previous levels to pass this filtration test.

5) This will make sure that a certain standard comes into the main FC teams and the competition should be able to produce decent players and some might become WC.

It just doesnt end their with the final prodcuts at hand. A proper coaching setup at all levels will also have to be created with a decent growth system and road map so that coaches at each level are good enough to value add something to the product. Even if one gets a world class team, mismanagement would mean poor and inconsistent results. So having good enough coaches who have experience of handling players at different levels would be required to come up through the system.

In addition, bio mechanics and analysts need to be added atleast from the second filtration level of U16, U19 and 2nd Xis.

Transition to a proper domestic system from the departmental cricket is a very good step in the right direction in my opinion. Hopefully results will be visible in the coming years. Now the work has to be put into the world around that system to make an integrated system and to have continuous production line of players as well as coaches.

So its very much possible if any decent person in charge is up for the task. Cricket is still very popular in Pakistan so a lot of steps will be easy and will just require a proper planning and intent.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I agree with this as well. I don't know what our analytics team does, but top teams are meticulously using data to formulate strategies. We are still stuck in "our talented matchwinners will overcome the opposition" 1990s school of thought.

And Jazba aur Josh are enough to win matches.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

This. Consistency requires work, it requires a system. For the first time in my life, I now see a system being put in place. The results won’t be quick, nor will there be a silver bullet. But 10 years from now, 2019-2020 will be in the record books of Pakistan cricket history.

I think you meant to say 2029-2030. But in the upcoming 10 years, there are 2 elections to come. And everytime a new party comes to power, they replace the heads of every department including PCB with their own people. So more chop and change is still bound to happen.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

"Ever" is a pretty vast term. Thing is cricketing fraternity has realized over the last decade or so that system isnt working and that is why we saw different sort of compositions in the previous 18-20 teams QAE. There were clubs which didnt even exist and school cricket was pretty much finished.

Even at the domestic level it should have been decided long ago that departmental cricket is not a suitable long term system, yes it was probably need of the hour at that time but eventual transition to proper system should have happen in the 90s itself. What happened to the previous structure was always on the cards, only question was when. There was extreme level of politics involved in the departments and none of them came under PCB directly, organizations involved in the departments in the current world dynamics had a lot on their plate and they were neither much interested or much dedicated towards their cricket teams. Thats why we saw eventual closure of some departmental cricket teams in the last decade.

For any sport in any country, the basics of a decent system are:

1) Creating interest of that particular sport among kids (With yearly tours with stars, career road map, and match screenings or invitations to stadiums along with many other ways)

2) Second is in cashing that interest by having a proper grassroot system within schools, collages and universities with yearly competitions, marketing and prizes. Involving govt bodies to recognize success of educational institutes in sports will also push the school management further to have a good team so that their reputation can grow.

3) Then comes the filtration part in which clubs, city level associations and district associations come in. They will do two things, firstly will filter out the top players from grass root structure which will include educational institutes as well as will provide opportunities for the players who might not be privileged to get into educational institutions or if they did go maybe they didnt have enough facilities. This part requires a proper accountability process and coaches in position.

4) After having a competitive structure in place for step 3, only then comes the main FC structure. Players filtered out will be selected for U-16, U-19 and 2nd XIs and their eventual transition to main FC teams will require consistent performances at previous levels to pass this filtration test.

5) This will make sure that a certain standard comes into the main FC teams and the competition should be able to produce decent players and some might become WC.

It just doesnt end their with the final prodcuts at hand. A proper coaching setup at all levels will also have to be created with a decent growth system and road map so that coaches at each level are good enough to value add something to the product. Even if one gets a world class team, mismanagement would mean poor and inconsistent results. So having good enough coaches who have experience of handling players at different levels would be required to come up through the system.

In addition, bio mechanics and analysts need to be added atleast from the second filtration level of U16, U19 and 2nd Xis.

Transition to a proper domestic system from the departmental cricket is a very good step in the right direction in my opinion. Hopefully results will be visible in the coming years. Now the work has to be put into the world around that system to make an integrated system and to have continuous production line of players as well as coaches.

So its very much possible if any decent person in charge is up for the task. Cricket is still very popular in Pakistan so a lot of steps will be easy and will just require a proper planning and intent.

Nepotism and corruption are running wild dowm to club cricket levels as well.

School cricket in Pakistan is next to zero, atleast in the capital, there is no such thing as school cricket
.
Our so called former legends are too good to learn modern coaching methods and attaining certifications from good coaching academies.

I don't think guys like Yousaf or Razzaq would ever go and try to attain level 2 and level 3 coaching certifications from a good institute.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

I think you meant to say 2029-2030. But in the upcoming 10 years, there are 2 elections to come. And everytime a new party comes to power, they replace the heads of every department including PCB with their own people. So more chop and change is still bound to happen.

Nope, I actually mean 2019. It will be forever be known as the year domestic cricket was changed completely. Alhamdulillah there are still 3 years until the 2023 election, which means 3 more seasons for this domestic system to prove its superiority again and again. It has already done so, but by then, any idiot (let’s call this hypothetical person “BBZ”) that tries to chop and change the system will find the system itself pushing back.

 

[Cric1234]

Let’s be realistic here our talent pool doesn’t regularly produce world class batsmen in tests and ODIs after Younis nobody has looked close to averaging 50 in tests Babar is still progressing needs to do more and only Fakhar really has been a match winner in ODIs on his day against the better teams.

Not only are we short on talent the ones that can do well aren’t given proper backing players with lesser ability and talent seem to be favourites of the coach and selectors and given long ropes in test and ODI as top order batsmen.

I could write a long list of batsmen that have underperformed despite being given a lot of chances when this happens the team will consistently be below par with the odd flash like CT17 to keep supporters minds optimistic only for results to go down again.

Unfortunately the last 10-15 years have been constant with a lack of vision poor planning no forward thinking and until Misbah and Waqar are in charge things won’t change much.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Nope, I actually mean 2019. It will be forever be known as the year domestic cricket was changed completely. Alhamdulillah there are still 3 years until the 2023 election, which means 3 more seasons for this domestic system to prove its superiority again and again. It has already done so, but by then, any idiot (let’s call this hypothetical person “BBZ”) that tries to chop and change the system will find the system itself pushing back.

You never know with the politicians. They would try to revert every change their predecessors made just for the sake of hatred.

I think we are praising the revamped domestic system too much too soon.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

There’s only 2 people that I think can help Pakistan move forward and be more consistent, Tom Moody and Andy Flower.

PCB’s history would tell us that they’ll continue with Misbah until after the WT20, but I think they should get Moody or Flower in before the South Africa series. It’ll give them enough time to build a squad for the tournament.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

I think you meant to say 2029-2030. But in the upcoming 10 years, there are 2 elections to come. And everytime a new party comes to power, they replace the heads of every department including PCB with their own people. So more chop and change is still bound to happen.

There is no party left in Pakistan aside from the PTI.
The year 2021 will make that even more clear.
Pakistan is also very likely going to change its Government system from parliamentary to Presidential.
IK is now going to lead Pakistan as long as life allows him to.
This is a very exciting time for the country as a whole as a lot of positive change is on the horizon; cricket is only a small part of it.

 

[wakkkLDN]

There is no party left in Pakistan aside from the PTI.
The year 2021 will make that even more clear.
Pakistan is also very likely going to change its Government system from parliamentary to Presidential.
IK is now going to lead Pakistan as long as life allows him to.
This is a very exciting time for the country as a whole as a lot of positive change is on the horizon; cricket is only a small part of it.

I know Imran Khan is extremely popular on this forum, but seriously you still think he is the answer to all of Pakistan's problems.

The only way cricket can improve in Pakistan is if the corrupt, archaic system with all it's inadequacies is dismantled.

Ill give you just one example: where was the fair and transparent process for appointing misbah ul haq as Pakistan's head coach and chief selector?

The answer is he was appointed by the powers that be with out a fair and transparent process and the results reflect it.

 

[Titan24]

You never know with the politicians. They would try to revert every change their predecessors made just for the sake of hatred.

I think we are praising the revamped domestic system too much too soon.

Thing is departmental cricket was on the decline even before the revamped structure. UBL was one of the biggest teams to go just before the revamped structure and wouldnt have been surprised if many more were to follow. Thing is as I said dynamics of the world as well as sports have changed and this only could have been a temporary option, eventually transition had to happen.

I personally dont see a possibility of reviving departmental cricket to the level of main domestic structure again as its not easy for any department to create a team again and allocate separate funds again and that too for a cause they werent much interested in the last decade to start with.

As the main domestic structure, in my opinion the only possibilities of changes are related to the currently formed system.

Praise is because of the quality of cricket and talent recognition on display in a new domestic structure where every coach and team comes directly under PCB. If anyone believes the quality isn’t great than imagine what it was with 16-18 teams and none of the departments involved had any direct stakes in cricket along with no accountability.

 

[Titan24]

Nepotism and corruption are running wild dowm to club cricket levels as well.

School cricket in Pakistan is next to zero, atleast in the capital, there is no such thing as school cricket
.
Our so called former legends are too good to learn modern coaching methods and attaining certifications from good coaching academies.

I don't think guys like Yousaf or Razzaq would ever go and try to attain level 2 and level 3 coaching certifications from a good institute.

Thats why I said that while I believe new domestic structure is a step in the right direction, the world around it needs to be worked upon and integrated in such a way that there is a stable production line of cricketers.

There are countless grass root and development models available to follow if someone at the top is willing to create that whole integrated system.

 

[gazza619]

We cant ignore the fact that we were heavily impacted by war, terrorism and no international cricket at home.

Its a cycle and with the re-jig of the domestic structure, strong management and foreign teams returning to Pakistan, good times will come again Insha Allah.

 

[Mamoon]

For that to happen, Pakistan will have to change its rotten mentality. We are the only cricket nation in the world that romanticizes inconsistency and rebrands it as “unpredictability” and “cornered tigers” mentality.

Pakistan cricket needs a factory respect. Our players, coaches, PCB leaders, media analysts as well as the fans don’t understand cricket.

Pakistan is the most ignorant and deluded cricket nation in the world.

So unless and until we revamp our mentality, which probably cannot happen, we shall never become an elite cricket team.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

I know Imran Khan is extremely popular on this forum, but seriously you still think he is the answer to all of Pakistan's problems.

The only way cricket can improve in Pakistan is if the corrupt, archaic system with all it's inadequacies is dismantled.

Ill give you just one example: where was the fair and transparent process for appointing misbah ul haq as Pakistan's head coach and chief selector?

The answer is he was appointed by the powers that be with out a fair and transparent process and the results reflect it.

Well, Imran khan is the only solution and this will become clearer to you, if it already hasn't, as time progresses.
I can assure you that this time period will be written down as the age of renaissance and great upheaval in Pakistan, as a lot of great things are going to happen in this era.

 

[90MPH]

Appointment of Misbah as coach was pathetic and backwards.

We will remain mediocre under his leadership.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Depends on how many series Pakistan gets to play at home. This is always overlooked. Players need to play at home to boost their stats. All teams have players like that.

 

[wakkkLDN]

For that to happen, Pakistan will have to change its rotten mentality. We are the only cricket nation in the world that romanticizes inconsistency and rebrands it as “unpredictability” and “cornered tigers” mentality.

Pakistan cricket needs a factory respect. Our players, coaches, PCB leaders, media analysts as well as the fans don’t understand cricket.

Pakistan is the most ignorant and deluded cricket nation in the world.

So unless and until we revamp our mentality, which probably cannot happen, we shall never become an elite cricket team.

Well said!

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistani fans are the only set of fans in the world who would prefer to go into a tournament as a low ranked team so that they can pull-off a fluke win against a superior team and cheerleaders like Nasser can come up with cliche statements like “Pakistan cricket at its best - one minute up, one minute down” and our fans can do hoho and haha because Nasser called us unpredictable yaaay.

There is something seriously wrong with our mentality and the way we process things.

 

[MHN1293]

Pakistani fans are the only set of fans in the world who would prefer to go into a tournament as a low ranked team so that they can pull-off a fluke win against a superior team and cheerleaders like Nasser can come up with cliche statements like “Pakistan cricket at its best - one minute up, one minute down” and our fans can do hoho and haha because Nasser called us unpredictable yaaay.

There is something seriously wrong with our mentality and the way we process things.

At the end of the day rabkings dont mean much if u can win trophies. I would happily chose remaining mediocre for a decade but winning the world cup rather than reamaining among the top 3 teams but choking in world cups.

 

[Tubs]

Pakistani fans are the only set of fans in the world who would prefer to go into a tournament as a low ranked team so that they can pull-off a fluke win against a superior team and cheerleaders like Nasser can come up with cliche statements like “Pakistan cricket at its best - one minute up, one minute down” and our fans can do hoho and haha because Nasser called us unpredictable yaaay.

There is something seriously wrong with our mentality and the way we process things.

Damn.

That was perfectly put, well played sir.

 

[Mamoon]

At the end of the day rabkings dont mean much if u can win trophies. I would happily chose remaining mediocre for a decade but winning the world cup rather than reamaining among the top 3 teams but choking in world cups.

Yeah as if Pakistan is always winning trophies right? We have only won a single World Cup since 1975.

Pakistani fans are always dismissive of rankings because the team doesn’t have the quality to be a high ranked side, but the reality is that higher ranked teams are far more likely to win World Cups and qualify for semifinals and finals etc. because they are simply better teams.

Last World Cup, when Pakistan and Sri Lanka beat England, our fans brought their firecrackers out and said that rankings don’t matter hahaha, but at the end of the day, the number 1 ranked team in the world lifted the trophy and surprise surprise - the top 4 ODI teams in the world were also the 4 teams that qualified for the semifinals.

If Pakistan wants to win a World Cup in the near future it will have to improve its rankings and beat the top sides frequently.

We haven’t beaten Australia in an ODI series since 2002, England since 2005 and New Zealand since 2011, but we think we limp into a World Cup and do a repeat of 92, because we are unpredictable and our players listen to Imran’s cornered tigers speech before getting on the plane.

Daydreaming and fantasizing won’t take us anywhere. Flukes like Champions Trophy only happen once in 30-40 years.

If Pakistan wants to win a World Cup in the near future it will have to change its approach and get rid of its rotten mentality. Success is a process.

 

[Caved12]

Nepotism and corruption are running wild dowm to club cricket levels as well.

School cricket in Pakistan is next to zero, atleast in the capital, there is no such thing as school cricket
.
Our so called former legends are too good to learn modern coaching methods and attaining certifications from good coaching academies.

I don't think guys like Yousaf or Razzaq would ever go and try to attain level 2 and level 3 coaching certifications from a good institute.

Very good post. So many of these youngsters who are actually from decent backgrounds stop playing cricket because they see nothing but nepotism and corruption. Even after that, if somehow you become a good player, they will never pick you unless you kiss their backsides.

 

[Caved12]

Not in my lifetime, that's for sure!

 

[UzmanBeast]

In order for Pakistan to become a consistent team, we need to invest in our youth and hope that they turn out alright. We cannot afford any more Akmals who play well for a few years and just disappear. We also need to hope that none of Shadab, Babar, Shaheen get injured.

Secondly, we need to determine players who can serve us in all formats, and also, we need to win the home series that we have lined up, to give us some space to breathe and determine what changes need to be made.

Lastly, we need to change the mindset and our behaviour on and off the field. We cannot be some cheap garbage fielding team that gives away easy singles. This has cost us many times, and we would have won that test match in England had we reduced the number of singles. We have youngsters, and now, we need to be energetic and play positive cricket.

We need to take risks, and hopefully, a few pay off and we can establish ourselves as one of the better teams in the world, across all formats.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

In order for Pakistan to become a consistent team, we need to invest in our youth and hope that they turn out alright. We cannot afford any more Akmals who play well for a few years and just disappear. We also need to hope that none of Shadab, Babar, Shaheen get injured.

Secondly, we need to determine players who can serve us in all formats, and also, we need to win the home series that we have lined up, to give us some space to breathe and determine what changes need to be made.

Lastly, we need to change the mindset and our behaviour on and off the field. We cannot be some cheap garbage fielding team that gives away easy singles. This has cost us many times, and we would have won that test match in England had we reduced the number of singles. We have youngsters, and now, we need to be energetic and play positive cricket.

We need to take risks, and hopefully, a few pay off and we can establish ourselves as one of the better teams in the world, across all formats.

That are only the superficial changes. Will it develop the players in long term and if yes, who will?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

There’s only 2 people that I think can help Pakistan move forward and be more consistent, Tom Moody and Andy Flower.

PCB’s history would tell us that they’ll continue with Misbah until after the WT20, but I think they should get Moody or Flower in before the South Africa series. It’ll give them enough time to build a squad for the tournament.

That would only superficial change as I stated. They can help us to a certain degree but will they have powers to undo the bad that is happening?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Thing is departmental cricket was on the decline even before the revamped structure. UBL was one of the biggest teams to go just before the revamped structure and wouldnt have been surprised if many more were to follow. Thing is as I said dynamics of the world as well as sports have changed and this only could have been a temporary option, eventually transition had to happen.

I personally dont see a possibility of reviving departmental cricket to the level of main domestic structure again as its not easy for any department to create a team again and allocate separate funds again and that too for a cause they werent much interested in the last decade to start with.

As the main domestic structure, in my opinion the only possibilities of changes are related to the currently formed system.

Praise is because of the quality of cricket and talent recognition on display in a new domestic structure where every coach and team comes directly under PCB. If anyone believes the quality isn’t great than imagine what it was with 16-18 teams and none of the departments involved had any direct stakes in cricket along with no accountability.

Sui Southern Gas team had hired foreign physiotherapists and had dieticians for the players as well.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

We cant ignore the fact that we were heavily impacted by war, terrorism and no international cricket at home.

Its a cycle and with the re-jig of the domestic structure, strong management and foreign teams returning to Pakistan, good times will come again Insha Allah.

Yes our cricket has definitely been hit by war and terrorism. But it's still been one of the highly invested organization in the country. Have we seen any positive changes? We have only been declining.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Thats why I said that while I believe new domestic structure is a step in the right direction, the world around it needs to be worked upon and integrated in such a way that there is a stable production line of cricketers.

There are countless grass root and development models available to follow if someone at the top is willing to create that whole integrated system.

I hope it can happen some time soon.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Depends on how many series Pakistan gets to play at home. This is always overlooked. Players need to play at home to boost their stats. All teams have players like that.

Stats padding at home and against weaker teams is fine as long as the team is regularly winning against the big and better teams as well.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah as if Pakistan is always winning trophies right? We have only won a single World Cup since 1975.

Pakistani fans are always dismissive of rankings because the team doesn’t have the quality to be a high ranked side, but the reality is that higher ranked teams are far more likely to win World Cups and qualify for semifinals and finals etc. because they are simply better teams.

Last World Cup, when Pakistan and Sri Lanka beat England, our fans brought their firecrackers out and said that rankings don’t matter hahaha, but at the end of the day, the number 1 ranked team in the world lifted the trophy and surprise surprise - the top 4 ODI teams in the world were also the 4 teams that qualified for the semifinals.

If Pakistan wants to win a World Cup in the near future it will have to improve its rankings and beat the top sides frequently.

We haven’t beaten Australia in an ODI series since 2002, England since 2005 and New Zealand since 2011, but we think we limp into a World Cup and do a repeat of 92, because we are unpredictable and our players listen to Imran’s cornered tigers speech before getting on the plane.

Daydreaming and fantasizing won’t take us anywhere. Flukes like Champions Trophy only happen once in 30-40 years.

If Pakistan wants to win a World Cup in the near future it will have to change its approach and get rid of its rotten mentality. Success is a process.

We celebrated 2014 test series victory against Australia in UAE like we had won the wc. Even former cricketers like Wasim and Ramiz were making it sound like as if something unachievable had been done.

 

[coy0607]

consistency requires structure - and PCB is no where near a good structure. Even with someone line Wasim Khan in charge, PCB is still mostly a revolving door with key management positions.

 

[shah_1]

I don't see anytime soon unless we can have 2 world class batsmen(plus Babar), quality front line spinner and fast bowler(Shaheen needs to improve further)

 

[Mamoon]

We celebrated 2014 test series victory against Australia in UAE like we had won the wc. Even former cricketers like Wasim and Ramiz were making it sound like as if something unachievable had been done.

When you are so pathetic that you lose every single Test in Australia since 1999 and cannot beat them in an ODI series for 18 years and counting, you will go overboard when you beat them in a home Test series.

 

[Titan24]

Sui Southern Gas team had hired foreign physiotherapists and had dieticians for the players as well.

Thats just one off example but the overall role of departmental cricket despite being the premier FC platform declined tremendously in the last decade or so and end product manifested that. Even in 90s county cricket had a big role in nourishing Pakistani players. Sui Southern might be one of the better ones but, its also a fact that quite a few ordinary players kept on playing for so long over some possibly better young players.

There are atleast few examples of players who really outperformed others in the current FC structure who were nowhere to be seen in the departmental cricket in last few years. Even if they were, it was for just handful of matches which clearly shows something wasn’t right.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Thats just one off example but the overall role of departmental cricket despite being the premier FC platform declined tremendously in the last decade or so and end product manifested that. Even in 90s county cricket had a big role in nourishing Pakistani players. Sui Southern might be one of the better ones but, its also a fact that quite a few ordinary players kept on playing for so long over some possibly better young players.

There are atleast few examples of players who really outperformed others in the current FC structure who were nowhere to be seen in the departmental cricket in last few years. Even if they were, it was for just handful of matches which clearly shows something wasn’t right.

There are still many ordinary and older retired players in the current format. Umar Gul recently quit playing. Imran Farhat is still playing. Salman Butt was as well.

 

[Titan24]

There are still many ordinary and older retired players in the current format. Umar Gul recently quit playing. Imran Farhat is still playing. Salman Butt was as well.

Yes but look at the deserving players which are now getting oppurtunities and ordinary older players are being phased out. Khurram Mansoor in QAE 2020 is just one example and there are many others. He would still have been playing in the departmental cricket without a doubt.

 

[Caved12]

[MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION]

I agreed with every word you said earlier!

This is a very good thread as we can always revisit this every year and see how we are progressing. I have been here on this forum for close to 15 years now and nothing has changed. If anything, we were much better before and with every passing year, we continue to get to new lows. I am sure 15 years from now, if I stay alive, we will be discussing your thread and talking about how things have not changed or will they ever change. I really hope I am wrong and no I was never this negative and I supported my team blindly in those early years, but not anymore.

 

[rockyboy2018]

The only way this Pakistan team can be consistently good is if they stick to playing cricket with female cricket teams and even in that case Mohammed Hafeez and the likes will be a walking wicket.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION]

I agreed with every word you said earlier!

This is a very good thread as we can always revisit this every year and see how we are progressing. I have been here on this forum for close to 15 years now and nothing has changed. If anything, we were much better before and with every passing year, we continue to get to new lows. I am sure 15 years from now, if I stay alive, we will be discussing your thread and talking about how things have not changed or will they ever change. I really hope I am wrong and no I was never this negative and I supported my team blindly in those early years, but not anymore.

Hopefully yes. Thank you.

 

[UzmanBeast]

That are only the superficial changes. Will it develop the players in long term and if yes, who will?

The management is clearly very incompetent, and this series loss has opened our eyes to how poor our selections have been, and how dependent we are on Babar Azam.

We have no good batsmen on the team, our top order is a joke, our "senior" bowler is washed up, and our spinners are being abused overseas.

This is the state Misbah leaves our team in when he passes it on to Mohammad Wasim.