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Will Pakistan repeat India's mistakes in South Africa this year?

Junaids

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I am the first to admit that India overall is a stronger Test team than Pakistan in Asia.

But India negligently squandered their chance to win a series in South Africa by:

1. Arriving far too late to acclimatise to the conditions (compare with Pakistan's excellent preparation in England in 2016).

2. Failing to pick proven Test players like Rahane who are specialists in such conditions.

3. Assuming that Limited Overs specialists have the technique or cricket brain to achieve in alien conditions. Pandiya's appalling ramp shot when the Second Test needed to be saved was the ultimate defeat for that strategy.

4. Assuming that reverse swing and spin can win Test matches in South Africa (or Australia or New Zealand). In general it is lift and pace and a full length on fourth stump which dismiss batsmen here.

So will Pakistan make the same errors?

The first thing they must do is recognise that their South African coach knows best. And when he says arrive 4 weeks before the First Test, just do it. At least South Africa is a cheap location to stay and practice and warm up in.

The second thing they must do is recognise that Yasir Shah will be as redundant as he was in Australia and New Zealand, where he averaged 65 with the ball. By all means pick a leggie, but at least Shadab Khan likes batting on bouncy tracks, and he will be far more useful in South Africa than Yasir Shah.

The third thing they must do is make sure they have 4 quick bowlers, and that at least 1 and preferably 2 are tall and fast. Once the Kookaburra goes soft, extra pace and lift are all that will keep the scoring rate down.

Fourthly, Pakistan will need batsmen with a track record against pace in Australian or South African conditions. That means Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq. It possibly means Babar Azam and Sami Aslam, who both looked okay at times Down Under, in spite of their failure to make big scores.
 
Knowing PCB's track record, I don't think we will anticipate much. So, we will be whitewashed in SA.

Our bowlers will do Ok-ish but our batsmen (Azhar aside) will be exposed.

Although we will make it competitive with valiant performances from Amir / Shah.
 
Pakistan & India's issues are not the same, as far as batting goes. This Indian team had the batsmen who had the technique to survive & score in SA, which I am afraid present Pak batsmen have, barring one or two.
Having a few practice matches would no doubt help, but I am not sure a batsman with a poor technique can rectify his faults in a few weeks.

Pakistan's bowling is good, but their poor batting mostly ends up putting the bowlers under tremendous pressure, & eventually even the bowlers start feeling that no matter what they do, they can't win.
 
You need 3 practice matches to identify your best XI to play the series. Even Bangladesh played a warm up game i think. This is the worst prepared team to tour SA ever since their come back. Net session & Shopping. That's it.
 
Pakistan will be white-washed regardless of what they do. The gulf in quality between the two sides in those conditions is too big.
 
Pakistan and strategy...by the way i completely agree with your suggestions but shadab over Yasir on a track like this one where india lost will be risky.
 
I don't see how our batting will do anything other than get blown away in these conditions against this SA pace attack given India's fate.

We must prioritise technically sound batsmen and stop the chopping and changing of batting positions. We don't have anyone who can score big hundreds consistently other than Azhar Ali. Sami Aslam has a problem with his grip and bats far too cautiously. Babar Azam has made an inauspicious start to his Test career, failing even against Sri Lanka in the UAE. Asad Shafiq's maximum capability is one good innings per series. Haris Sohail is a good player of pace but his fitness has to improve.
 
when will pak go to africa?
Three Tests in December.

I personally think they should host either Bangladesh or Zimbabwe for three more Tests at secondary South African grounds like East London or Bloemfontein immediately before: its far cheaper than hosting them in the UAE.
 
I don't see how our batting will do anything other than get blown away in these conditions against this SA pace attack given India's fate.

We must prioritise technically sound batsmen and stop the chopping and changing of batting positions. We don't have anyone who can score big hundreds consistently other than Azhar Ali. Sami Aslam has a problem with his grip and bats far too cautiously. Babar Azam has made an inauspicious start to his Test career, failing even against Sri Lanka in the UAE. Asad Shafiq's maximum capability is one good innings per series. Haris Sohail is a good player of pace but his fitness has to improve.
It may be no disaster even if the batting does struggle.

We have seen in both Tests that an aggregate of 400 and then 590 runs across both innings is enough to win in South Africa.

We have also seen that after 25 overs the ball goes soft and batting is quite easy.

So it’s probably fine if Azhar Ali and Sami Aslam crawl to 25-1 in the first hour and then 50-2 at Lunch.

The ball is now soft, and the likes of Babar Azam, Haris Sohail and Asad Shafiq can hopefully make that 150-4 in 55 overs at Tea.

If you then score another 100 against the very old ball - you need a decent lower middle-order of Sarfraz, Shadab, Amir and Hasan Ali - you hopefully reach the second new ball at 260-8.

And that means your bowlers have something to defend.
 
We will do even worse. We do not have any batsmen... Atleast India have Kohli.
 
Bruh! India actually has a team which could have competed in SA. Their issues like team selection, being too defensive while batting were real. Those were India's issues. Pakistan's issue is they dont have a team.

This thread gives you an impression that Pakistan has some world class test players who will blow away Saffers if they are selected. Unless some miracle happens, and i'm not ruling it out completely, there is only going to be 1 result in PAK vs SA test series in SA.
 
Pakistan doesn't have the team to compete unless they get a dry surface like cape town in last series they are not winning/ drawing any match.
 
Even if we have surfaces like that our batsmen can't cope with SA/Aus pacers.

It might be a psychological issue.

Ind are good at bounce and bad against swing, Pak is terrible against bounce and below avg against swing. Hence they struggle even draw a test in SA/ AUS.
 
We don't have misbah or younis anymore either.. I expect we will do worse than India. I wonder if we'll score 300 once?
 
You have a 10% of a chance to draw one game, if u select properly.

Sami
Azhar
Haris (5th bowler)
Asad
Saad
Babar/ Fawad
Sarfraz + *
Yasir
Hassan
Amir/ Hamza/ Sadaf
Abbas
 
Who are the 2 tall fast bowlers with the quality needed in SA?
 
I can't see us competing with them at all, but if we are serious about doing well there, we need adequate preparation. We are going to England in early summer so hopefully our players get some experience of playing outside of Asia there. If we can arrive in SA about a month before that's our best chance but I still expect us to get whitewashed.
 
Pakistans test batting is 100 times worse then Indias so they will get hammered as well when they tour S.A next time.
 
The worst result will be 0-3 so even 0-2 or 0-1 loss will do great deal to Pakistan. In 2016 they went to England for 4 Match Test Series and everyone was predicting 4-0 whitewash. End result 2-2 draw.
 
We will be whitewashed unless something miraculous happens.But then we’ll just avoid a whitewash and manage to draw a test.
 
Pakistan will lose each and every game. Asian teams are ill equipped to deal with the Saffer attack.
 
Who are the 2 tall fast bowlers with the quality needed in SA?

1 Azhar Ali
2 Sami Aslam
3 Babar Azam
4 Haris Sohail
5 Asad Shafiq
6 Sarfraz Ahmed (c/wk)
7 Shadab Khan
8 Mohammad Amir
9 Hasan Ali
10 Shaheen Shah Afridi
11 Mohammad Asif (sea level) or Mohammad Abbas (Johannesburg/Centurion)
 
India's test bowling & batting are much superior than Pakistan, I can't see Pakistan competing much against this SA team, we'll be whitewashed most probably. But that doesn't mean that there is no need to put any thoughts & preparation into this series, being a professional side our team should prepare as well as they can. Reaching there a month before & playing 3-4 practice games will surely help. Our squad should look like this:

1. Sami Aslam/Fakhar Zaman
2. Azhar Ali
3. Haris Sohail
4. Babar Azam/Saad Ali
5. Asad Shafiq
6. Umar Amin (4th/5th seam option)
7. Sarfaraz Ahmed
8. Shadab Khan/Yasir Shah
9. Hasan Ali/Faheem Ashraf
10. Amir/Sadaf
11. Abbas/Wahab
 
I think they will prepare flatter pitches in order to totally negate our bowling.

They know they will out bat us every innings.
 
I think they will prepare flatter pitches in order to totally negate our bowling.

They know they will out bat us every innings.

What bowling attack?



The only threat they will have is from Shah and green pitches are perfectly fine to counter him.
 
The major question is "Can the current Pakistani bowlers take 20 wickets in each test without leaking runs"?

That's a major concern.
 
Not just the Pakistani batting but even our bowling stands no chance in SAF.

The worst part is that our boys seem to be reluctant to learn from their mistakes. Some Examples:

1- We saw Azhar repeating the same mistakes in 3 consecutive ODIs vs NZ
2- Babar Azam also, getting out in the same fashion (nicking behind) in the 3 ODIs vs NZ
3- Amir bowling defensive line-and-length --- and not picking up wickets
4- Sarfaraz's stubbornness to not give up on Biryani & affect his fitness
 
Whatever we do we won't be as bad as your team.

Yes. Losing 3-0 by slightly smaller margins is a great achievement. :)))

You will get spanked just like we did. Maybe you will score another 50 runs or so over a Test.
 
Let's be honest

The Pakistani team ain't much good. It's very weak

The Indian team actually is pretty decent which is why for them to lose so easily is poor on their part
 
As long as Babar isn't batting at number three, we'll be alright.
 
Let's be honest

The Pakistani team ain't much good. It's very weak

The Indian team actually is pretty decent which is why for them to lose so easily is poor on their part

To be fair we have put up some fight, by dragging the games to the final innings and falling short because we are unable to chase what are middling totals.

If you ignore the meaningless #1 ranking, you'll notice we are playing up to standard.
 
It will be a miracle if Pakistan doesn't lose a match by innings margin, though 3-0 is guaranteed.
 
Pakistan couldn't handle Starc, Hazelwood, Lyon and Cummins.

They'll face , Rabada, Philander, Morkel and Ngidi. Lol.

None of them is less than 6.5ft , I reckon.

But you never know with Pakistan. We predicted 0-4 in England and they came out with 2-2.(It could have been even 3-1).

But another thing is Misbah and Younis are gone. When it was Misbah who won one test and Younis , the other, in batting.
 
India is miles better than us. We will get demolished without competing, unlike India.
 
Pakistan only repeats their own mistakes as they have so many of them that they do not even have the time to see what the rest are doing or did.
 
India hardly competed either in the grand scheme of things. 72 runs and 135 runs are thrashings.

Thrashing = Not able to compete/ win even couple of sessions in a test match.

If you only look at end score lines then it's a different case.
 
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I keep hearing that Pak does not play enough matches like the Big 3. So they can go 1 month in advance and get acclimated and get used to everything.
 
What bowling attack?



The only threat they will have is from Shah and green pitches are perfectly fine to counter him.

If the pitches are green then our pacers might do something for once.
 
Bottom line is no asian team is winning a test series in SA unless SA team do a pietersen, do a runner to eng & SA field there E team out!!
 
if there is swing select Mir Hamza; if there is bounce select Shaheen; select Amir & Usman & Abbas in any case
 
I watched both games. Results can only be judged after the fact. India competed at times in patches, but the final analysis was a familiar one.

Toss played a big factor. SA were lucky to bat first in both games, their batting has been ordinary and India's bowling has been very good. The outcome could have been the opposite had SA chased in both games.
 
Toss played a big factor. SA were lucky to bat first in both games, their batting has been ordinary and India's bowling has been very good. The outcome could have been the opposite had SA chased in both games.

You root for your team. I'll give you that much.
 
Toss played a big factor. SA were lucky to bat first in both games, their batting has been ordinary and India's bowling has been very good. The outcome could have been the opposite had SA chased in both games.

Fluke victory for SA. Faf got lucky he won the toss.. 7 out of 10 times he would lose...
 
You root for your team. I'll give you that much.

I root for my team, i.e. Pakistan. However, it is a poor team and I have no shame in admitting that. I also like India and England, but they are not my teams.
 
Fluke victory for SA. Faf got lucky he won the toss.. 7 out of 10 times he would lose...


It wasn't a fluke victory. Yes he was lucky to win the toss twice, but SA should great resolve and temperament. They were the better side and were deserving winners. However, it has been a much closer series than what the scoreline suggests.
 
I root for my team, i.e. Pakistan. However, it is a poor team and I have no shame in admitting that. I also like India and England, but they are not my teams.

It is not a convincing position given your posting history. India are terrible away - even worse than Pakistan. England are not much better. Yet you seem to excuse India's humiliations with a litany of excuses.
 
Lol we are utterly clueless in New Zealand right now. Were utterly clueless in England and Australia. South Africa will be a foregone conclusion.
 
Toss played a big factor. SA were lucky to bat first in both games, their batting has been ordinary and India's bowling has been very good. The outcome could have been the opposite had SA chased in both games.
Lol in first test India actually got rub of the green. Due to rain SA were put in a very difficult situation in second innings otherwise it Would have been a rout

Even this match this was as close to an Indian pitch, India will ever get on a South Africa tour
 
Toss played a big factor. SA were lucky to bat first in both games, their batting has been ordinary and India's bowling has been very good. The outcome could have been the opposite had SA chased in both games.
Stop giving toss excuses, India was lucky to lose the toss in the 1st test, otherwise they would have lost by an innings, seeing how green the wicket was.
 
India didn't really compete

Asides from handful of sessions Saffers were all over them

I don't agree. India played well in my view, but a couple of selection blunders + losing the toss have cost them. South Africa were deserved winners, but India have not been swept aside.

This loss will sting for a while. SA have been there for the taking, their batting is very vulnerable and this was India's golden chance of winning the series.
 
Lol in first test India actually got rub of the green. Due to rain SA were put in a very difficult situation in second innings otherwise it Would have been a rout

Even this match this was as close to an Indian pitch, India will ever get on a South Africa tour

This pitch was slow but it had uneven bounce. It wasn't easy for both teams.
 
Fluke victory for SA. Faf got lucky he won the toss.. 7 out of 10 times he would lose...

Fluke?lol

Have you watched the match.....india looks clueless in 4 th inngs against some top quality fast bolwing this test

And in first test it has nothing to do with toss in fact faf decision to bat on swinging condition was nothing but baffling.Now just imagine ind bats on those condition against philander and setyn,what it will be
 
Stop giving toss excuses, India was lucky to lose the toss in the 1st test, otherwise they would have lost by an innings, seeing how green the wicket was.

It is not an excuse. SA would not have chased anything above 200 in both games. Batting first helped them.
 
It is not a convincing position given your posting history. India are terrible away - even worse than Pakistan. England are not much better. Yet you seem to excuse India's humiliations with a litany of excuses.

There are no excuses. India lost because of some bad selections and because South Africa played superior cricket. However, there is no denying that toss played a factor. Moreover, India didn't get humiliated. It was a very good series.

If you want to see humiliation, tune in for Pakistan's tour in 2018-2019.
 
To be fair to Ind they took care of SA batsman none of them got 90+ theyr batting let them down.

Reminded me of the 1st ashes test in 2005 wer aus thrashed eng but none of the aussie greats got a 100.. rest is history.
 
I don't agree. India played well in my view, but a couple of selection blunders + losing the toss have cost them. South Africa were deserved winners, but India have not been swept aside.

This loss will sting for a while. SA have been there for the taking, their batting is very vulnerable and this was India's golden chance of winning the series.
This was a strong overseas side against an undercooked South African which had only 3-4 confirmed starters and still it's been swept aside. By no means it was a settled South African unit and that must disappoint India.

I agree it was a series there for the taking it seemed. However the Indian side has been exposed to lack mental strength in overseas tours despite a dream pitch in the second Test.

The margins of defeat are significant in any case for low scoring tests despite a Pandya fluke in first test and Kohli master class in second test. The batting hasn't played as a unit at all.

Overall a very limited side. Certainly nowhere near the Indian side of 2007-2010. England they might compete since England have their own problems but the Australian series might be a massacre.
 
There are no excuses. India lost because of some bad selections and because South Africa played superior cricket. However, there is no denying that toss played a factor. Moreover, India didn't get humiliated. It was a very good series.

If you want to see humiliation, tune in for Pakistan's tour in 2018-2019.

And then you wonder why people think you're Indian [MENTION=144456]bujhee kom[/MENTION]
 
Lol we are utterly clueless in New Zealand right now. Were utterly clueless in England and Australia. South Africa will be a foregone conclusion.
What are you on about? Pak drew 2-2 in England, though avoiding 3-0 in SA and winning a match there will be a great achievement.
 
And then you wonder why people think you're Indian [MENTION=144456]bujhee kom[/MENTION]

If he is a Pakistani, he is a unique breed of one.
I respect India's achievements on the field but I do not lambaste my own and champion them for some apparent reason like this gent does.
 
^ off topic but it seems You have taken this much harder than the Indians on the forum lol

Edit: you= mamoon
 
It is not an excuse. SA would not have chased anything above 200 in both games. Batting first helped them.
Batting 2nd in the 1st test helped India, otherwise they would have been blown away for <100. South Africa actually batted pretty well to reach 286.
 
U seem to have high standards for this pak team, u want them to perform like the bradmans invincibles w.i team of 80s or aus team of 00s.

Reality is theyr just an average team ie what sunderland are to the premier league.. lower ur expectations.
 
India have been insanely lucky this tour so far

In first test South Africa seemed set to build a huge lead in second innings before third day got washed out and in the fourth morning there was moisture in the pitch and bounce which led to very difficult batting conditions and saw them being rolled over.

In second test, as per the players and commentators, the pitch seemed more from Chennai than Centurion. This is as good a pitch as a touring Asian side can hope to get
 
Pakistan team is pretty unpredictable. We almost chased 500 in australia agianst their full bowling attack. Even if pakistan win a test or draw the series everyone will say pakistan won by fluke or luck.
 
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