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Will Pakistan repeat India's mistakes in South Africa this year?

^ off topic but it seems You have taken this much harder than the Indians on the forum lol

Edit: you= mamoon

Nationalism aside (in terms supporting my country and my team, not in a negative way) this Indian side team is my favorite Test team at the moment. I believe they have qualities and strengths that the previous Asian sides lacked, and their best is yet to come.

I am annoyed at the outcome of this series because I believe that India could have won with better preparation and selections.
 
If he is a Pakistani, he is a unique breed of one.
I respect India's achievements on the field but I do not lambaste my own and champion them for some apparent reason like this gent does.

He's most vocal about his support for all things India than 99% of the Indians on PP
 
Nationalism aside (in terms supporting my country and my team, not in a negative way) this Indian side team is my favorite Test team at the moment. I believe they have qualities and strengths that the previous Asian sides lacked, and their best is yet to come.

I am annoyed at the outcome of this series because I believe that India could have won with better preparation and selections.

So owing to the fact you like them, you appear blind to their faults. Makes sense.
 
Why does “luck” never come up when India win? They’ve had their fair share.

They are a quality side that's why. However, it is true that every team gets lucky and does need luck in some ways.

If you are raising this question in the context of the Champions Trophy, then I am sorry to say that it was a downright fluke.
 
So owing to the fact you like them, you appear blind to their faults. Makes sense.

Of course there are faults, who said there aren't? It is not a perfect team by any means, but it is very good and attractive.
 
Batting 2nd in the 1st test helped India, otherwise they would have been blown away for <100. South Africa actually batted pretty well to reach 286.

This is truth even bhuvi swings their like akram so what it will be if steyn and philander was their

I am not seeing indias top 6 lasting a session their,seriously some people are living in delusion here to not accept the reality
 
Nationalism aside (in terms supporting my country and my team, not in a negative way) this Indian side team is my favorite Test team at the moment. I believe they have qualities and strengths that the previous Asian sides lacked, and their best is yet to come.

I am annoyed at the outcome of this series because I believe that India could have won with better preparation and selections.

I agree the Indian side came across as very strong and didn't prepare correctly.

Selections weren't the greatest but having looked at the team I don't think they would have changed the match outcome

Also the South African side was all over the place with only 4-5 certain starters at start of series and main players either returning after 15 months (AB and Steyn) or horribly out of form (Amla and QdK)

Overall it seems I overrated this Indian batting lineup. Especially Rahul I thought can get to world class level but atleast this test looked ordinary. Pujara and Rohit seem to have a lot of mental baggage and not enough temperament. Vijay seems to have regressed alarmingly. Especially in the second match the lineup got to bat in conditions right up their alley but pressure of an overseas test got to them despite the familiarity with conditions.

If the batting lineup had lived up to its reputation then the result would have been different since the bowling has done a good job.
 
Bangladesh batting is better than us in tests atleast 2-3 guys show up and do wells. See we have Shan Masood who is worse than a tailender and undropable. Then there is Asad who I like btw but he failed for 1.5 years before actually playing that one off innings that too against Lanka in UAE so hes secured his spot. And that one off hundred in South Africa keeps haunting us. Babar as we know it sucks in tests and can't even play part time spinners.

Azhar is also poor mans Rohit Sharma and injury prone. Haris can't play an innings longer than 50 balls. Our bowlers also got exposed by the KIWIS. Then whats left is another whitewash and twice by an innings.

Why can't they just give young guns a chance Saad Ali's been waiting for long our best bat in tough domestic pitches then there is Saud. Usman Salahudin's been traveling with the team for more than a year and still can't get a place. Add these there we still won't win but we'd compete.

India is losing respectfully not getting hammered.


I'm sick of it seriously!!
 
In both games Indians did give a tough time to South Africa, so this was a decent effort from India they shouldn't feel overly bad abt this
 
I agree the Indian side came across as very strong and didn't prepare correctly.

Selections weren't the greatest but having looked at the team I don't think they would have changed the match outcome

Also the South African side was all over the place with only 4-5 certain starters at start of series and main players either returning after 15 months (AB and Steyn) or horribly out of form (Amla and QdK)

Overall it seems I overrated this Indian batting lineup. Especially Rahul I thought can get to world class level but atleast this test looked ordinary. Pujara and Rohit seem to have a lot of mental baggage and not enough temperament. Vijay seems to have regressed alarmingly. Especially in the second match the lineup got to bat in conditions right up their alley but pressure of an overseas test got to them despite the familiarity with conditions.

If the batting lineup had lived up to its reputation then the result would have been different since the bowling has done a good job.

Rahul has also been disappointing for me. Technically he is as good as it gets, but he seemed mentally lost. He needs to show some courage and defiance; the ability is certainly there.

Vijay has been a solid player for India, but he was never top drawer. Also, he seems to be on his way out now, age is not on his side and he will be past it soon.

Pujara's cowardly batting is a hindrance to the team actually. In addition, his fitness is not up to the standards Kohli wants to establish. His running between the wickets is pathetic.

Rahane will bounce back, but India needs to introduce a top quality young batsman. Maybe Prithvi Shaw will be that player, but they are too dependent on Kohli at this point.
 
I honestly do believe that a PAK team picked on proper merit would have made this Centurion Test on that deck closer. This margin actually isn't showing the real gap because of an unreal innings and some chancy hits by Ash & Shami. Otherwise, to be honest IND was out played in every department & most sessions on what has to be the closest to home wicket that an Asian side can dream of outside Asia - same display, next time it might end with 250+ gap. For example, I can't prove, so don't charge me on that - a fit Yasir would have killed SAF in 2nd innings, trust me; Ashwin went for Lungi/78 in 29 overs. Run outs didn't help, but Amla could have taken that SAF total to 450 as well - nothing much in that.


Coming to Junaids' team and strategy I actually do agree most of that - though I am sure, some how SAF groundsmen will learn how to make it a green, grassy, cracked & bouncy track by the time PAK reaches there, but let's not go there. I expect one Test will be at Cape Town, which should be a decent track for Asian sides. Other 2 might be more towards opposite direction. No alternative but to start at least 2 weeks earlier and play couple of proper 4 day games against SAF A side or U23 side (Or against a proper FC team), where 11 plays & 11 fields.

To start with (don't shoot me on this), I don't find Sarfraz a Test Captain - unfit for 5 days, poor tactician, impatient and too busy - not decent in ant aspect to lead from the front. He can be a decent LO Captain, but for Test - no chance (And this time fan boys won't bring that CT or 12-2 run, it reads 0-2 against 1 man, without his only somewhat parallel in that XI - Angelo Mathews). And, I don't find him a WK at all - let alone Test WK. PAK team's success will depend 99% on bowlers - who at least deserve a WK upon whom they can be confident. No Sarfraz, and I don't care who Captains there after - last was 1971, when TCCB (ECB) picked Tony Lewis as Sarfraz. I'll go for the U19 kid Umair Masood as WK, who looks quite good with gloves and for Test batting (Ruhail is more suitable for LO role). Sarfraz averages 14 during his pomp in SAF - I expect Yasir to match that, and Umar Akmal didn't keep worse than him in the Department Final - shouldn't be any issues therefore.

1. Azhar has to open. For his partner, I am not sure how Sami can fit - even 45/0 at lunch, means it just allows SAF pacers to rest & come back again with score card standing like a telephone pole. Imam can be an option, but he is too raw - I'll take one of Amin or FZ as opener - probably Amin, because he has better defense (apparently)
No. 3 - Heart says Saud, but kid is too raw and surely Ul Haq won't give him few Tests against ZIM to feast (that might be reserved for MoHa's come back, God forbid). Have to go with Haris (Babar's confidence must be low after AUS tour)
No. 4 - Babar, may be by SAF we can exchange between #3 & #4, but as of now, it's Hari at 3
No. 5 - Saad Ali. People say guy is weak against pace, but I am not sure who is strong in PAK. Young man is scoring at 70/70 stats on what can't be called a batting paradise. But, Ul Haq must make sure that SAF isn't his debut series - there are 3 series before that, if he is Imandar.
No. 6 - Asad. Ideally, he should have batted at 3, but I guess his confidence is high at 6 - you should definitely feel good to better Sir Gary at somewhere in life if you are a cricketer.
No. 7 - Masood+
No. 8 - Hasan Ali
No. 9 - Yasir Shah - for the Nth time, I say, for Test - I pick bowlers (spinners) on bowling merit, not for their 20 runs with bat.
No. 10. Amir
No. 11. Open spot - on cracked surface, may be Wahab is tempting, but we should remember that guy'll be officially almost 35 by then. Not suggested - I'll take a chance with a new face - Hamza or even SS Afridi. SAF batsmen will play Abbas like off-spinner, hence not suggested at all. Asif was phenomenal in his last Test tour of SAF - but that was 13 years back, and since then guy's body has gone through several entertainments, on top of 13 years age - can't pick him for a 4 bowler strategy. Or may be, they can go for a totally new face - don't mind as long guy is not more than 25, by his passport.

Hari and Amin has to share at least 25 overs between them. Can't pick 5 bowlers for this PAK side, because even 10 bowlers won't compete if it happens to be 141/7 every time.


I'll keep Shadab in squad (Or Irfan) - it's like to like replacement. PAK should never play a finger spinner in SAF (there is none actually - Arthur didn't trust Asghar in UAE), and never 2 spinners, hence it's redundant to pick Raza or Asghar; rather better to stock one more leggi, if in case Yasir is injured - Hari can serve for SLAO role. If it's a St. George's like seemers track, may be a 4 men pace attack isn't bad option - in that case I'll pick one of Yamin or Fahim or even Talat, if he can add a bit to his bowling. On seemers track, PAK has to win (or will loose) inside 3.5 days max - that's 170 overs work load in 2 innings combined - 3 X 45, + 25 from 4th pacer (& Amin) & 10 from Hari.

Personally, I won't make Azhar, Asad, Babar Test Captain ever. Had he been a little more intelligent than mixing wife's pill, Yasir was a great option for Test Captaincy. I'll again say - make Amir Captain & back him, but, I leave Captaincy to the critics. If he can justify his batting spot, Amin isn't a bad shout either.


PS: For No. 4, since Ul Haq in early 2000s, the best back foot player from PAK I have seen is Babar's infamous cousin - may be for one last time .... but I don't know what his mental state & physique now.
 
Toss played a big factor. SA were lucky to bat first in both games, their batting has been ordinary and India's bowling has been very good. The outcome could have been the opposite had SA chased in both games.

If India had batted first in the first test. India Will have max scored 150 runs first inning and 100 runs in second inning because of rain and condition. India batsman have really ordinary and batting like Pakistani batsman in second test only Kholi have shown guts. Toss did not play any part in both matches because india batsman have chicken out. Sa batting have been average but bowling have shown class.
 
I don't see us competing in South Africa unfortunately. I just hope we select a decent batting line up. Shan Masood should be nowhere near the squad.
 
We need tall bowlers for South Africa for sure. Wahab Riaz outperformed Amir in Australia and looked more threatening than Amir. Shaheen Afridi needs to get a look in.
 
What's frustrating is that this South African batting lineup can be got at. There's no Graeme Smith or Jacques Kallis whilst Hashim Amla is ageing as is AB de Villiers. de Kock has issues against lateral movement.

But our batting flaws are much worse and likely to be exposed. We really need to make use of the England/Ireland tour, Zimbabwe Test (if it happens) and the three UAE Tests vs New Zealand to settle on a batting lineup.
 
Pak in sa 2018-19

Will our boys manage to put up more 250+ scores than the Indian team, when we tour there at the end of the year?
 
Bhai 50 is our target. We are struggling to do that against NZ :inti

Haha, I have a feeling there will be atleast one score 99 or under. NZ have southee and boult, but SA have about 3-4 wicket taking options, there's going to be some worrying scorecards.
 
One year is a long time in Pakistan cricket. Half a team can be caught up in some sort of fixing in that period.


The biggest issue I see in Pakistan's prep for this tour is that they will be wrapping up vs. NZ at home.
Despite Arthur's presence I expect super unresponsive pitches (the kind where Malik scores a double hundred against England) in UAE where Pakistan will look to continue the Misbah strategy in tests. Win toss, bat 2.5 days to score 500, dismiss NZ for around 300 by day 3.5, bat again and collapse and give NZ about 320 to chase on last day.
Nothing wrong with this approach, but it gives you no time to prepare for pitches in South Africa. What they could do is to send guys like Azhar Ali, Shafiq and other test specialists to South Africa as soon as NZ test leg finishes, so that they have enough time to acclimatize.
 
Instead of giving up before the battle begins, Pakistan should schedule lot of practice matches. It definitely helps from a mental standpoint. Even guys like Shami was able to ride his luck for a while. Just that he was in a different frame of mind than our insecure top order. Guys like Steve waugh were not really technical wizards. He was just mentally strong. If you can take care of that half the battle won.
 
Desperately need to try Usman Salahuddin, Saad Ali any other test grade batsman..... Babar Azam is just a sitting duck. Sami Aslam can only blunt the ball and scoring runs is not allowed for him. Asad's poultry farm is always in operation and Saifi is only good for 'busy' 30s and 40s..... Our test team has to rely on Azhar Ali of all ppl.
 
To be frank Pakistan will struggle more than India did, considering their test team is even weaker than their ODI team. Pakistan just lost a series in UAE to SL team who are pretty much at minnow level right now in all formats. SA series will be tough with a rookie pace bowler (Hasan Ali), "Wicket less" Mohammad Amir taking the new ball. Indian bowlers did very well but Pakistan test attack will struggle there.
 
To be frank Pakistan will struggle more than India did, considering their test team is even weaker than their ODI team. Pakistan just lost a series in UAE to SL team who are pretty much at minnow level right now in all formats. SA series will be tough with a rookie pace bowler (Hasan Ali), "Wicket less" Mohammad Amir taking the new ball. Indian bowlers did very well but Pakistan test attack will struggle there.

Haha that's a good point, we just lost to Sri Lanka in UAE, so in SA vs SA could be really, really bad.
 
They are a quality side that's why. However, it is true that every team gets lucky and does need luck in some ways.

If you are raising this question in the context of the Champions Trophy, then I am sorry to say that it was a downright fluke.

no, champions trophy was not a fluke. I know you are still bitter that your team India got thrashed but there was nothing fluky about it.

India are not a quality side. They are a mediocre test team that only got to #1 due to playing more tests than other countries and doctored home wickets.

India could have batted first in both matches and they still would be down 2-0. Enough overhyping a mediocre team
 
We will lose worse then Bharat. Our batsmen will not get more then 200 in any innings. Their weak technique will again be exposed.
 
I think it arrogance cost us big time. Kohli and Shastri decided to let the main team play the SL series and chose to not play any warm up match and our goose was cooked right there. This team has been playing cricket non stop and you could see it in the way Yadav was bowling last series and Shami in this one . If you don't prioritise and give respect to the demands of a tough away tour, you will definitely fall short. Also I think we were somewhat unprepared for a 4 man pace attack. I think Pakistan should play a couple of warm ups and you'll do better than we did here.
 
Desperately need to try Usman Salahuddin, Saad Ali any other test grade batsman..... Babar Azam is just a sitting duck. Sami Aslam can only blunt the ball and scoring runs is not allowed for him. Asad's poultry farm is always in operation and Saifi is only good for 'busy' 30s and 40s..... Our test team has to rely on Azhar Ali of all ppl.

Statistically and based on the ROI (age being the core component of this) these players need to be given a go.

Asif Zakir
Fawad Alam
Mohammad Waqas Jnr
Sohaib Maqsood (Yes him!)
Awais Zia (Almost 2.5 times more reliable than Shan Masood in FC cricket)
Saad Ali (The best one of the lot)
Rizwan (Backup for Sarfraz)

Yet a 'normal' fan won't even know why I am naming anyone in that list of 7 people except maybe Fawad Alam. I am pretty sure selectors won't even know themselves :))
 
We will win 2-1. ABD and Steyn will likely be done playing tests by then. Amla might bid farewell in that series as well, given that South Africa only have another boring round of matches against Sri Lanka after playing us. These guys will want to focus on the ODI World Cup.

That leaves two massive holes in their lineup and a Steyn-less South African attack is always much more friendlier to face. With Markram still a newbie in the team and Temba struggling to establish himself, I can see our bowlers ripping through the Saffers on more than a couple of occasions.

The batting will have to play out of their skins, however. It will be much easier if we get an Asian-style track like India did here, but it's safe to say that the Proteas won't let that happen again. Low expectations might bring the best out of them.
 
We will win 2-1. ABD and Steyn will likely be done playing tests by then. Amla might bid farewell in that series as well, given that South Africa only have another boring round of matches against Sri Lanka after playing us. These guys will want to focus on the ODI World Cup.

That leaves two massive holes in their lineup and a Steyn-less South African attack is always much more friendlier to face. With Markram still a newbie in the team and Temba struggling to establish himself, I can see our bowlers ripping through the Saffers on more than a couple of occasions.

The batting will have to play out of their skins, however. It will be much easier if we get an Asian-style track like India did here, but it's safe to say that the Proteas won't let that happen again. Low expectations might bring the best out of them.

ABDV is not going to stop playing tests anytime soon.

Without Steyn, they still have an attack of Rabada, Philander, Morkel and Ngidi. How are we going to handle such a good pace attack? Philander alone will destroy us on a seaming track. And the other bowlers will still take 20 wickets vs us quite easily if we get a flat track.

SA won in Aus without ABDV and Steyn. And while Amla was getting dominated by Hazlewood.

We will be fortunate to win one match. I think the likely result is that we get swept. However, since we are an unpredictable team, we might surprise people by winning a test. However, the likely result is us getting swept.
 
In both games Indians did give a tough time to South Africa, so this was a decent effort from India they shouldn't feel overly bad abt this

SA got the toss call wrong in game 1,
and the pitch was not the pitch they wanted in game 2 (Ashwin bowling 25+ overs on day 1 -when you have 3.5 quicks).

That is what let India in, and they royally screwed it up.
 
no, champions trophy was not a fluke. I know you are still bitter that your team India got thrashed but there was nothing fluky about it.

India are not a quality side. They are a mediocre test team that only got to #1 due to playing more tests than other countries and doctored home wickets.

India could have batted first in both matches and they still would be down 2-0. Enough overhyping a mediocre team

If India had batted on the first morning of the first test they would have been all out for 80 I reckon
 
You have a 10% of a chance to draw one game, if u select properly.

Sami
Azhar
Haris (5th bowler)
Asad
Saad
Babar/ Fawad
Sarfraz + *
Yasir
Hassan
Amir/ Hamza/ Sadaf
Abbas

That's a good eleven.I won't pick Asad and Babar.Instead Fawad and Salauddin will play in my team.
 
I have no doubt without doing any serious analysis that this Pakistan team can beat South Africa in Sa since they have a certain unpredictability that no other team possesses. It has been seen time and time again. And this was seen recently as the outcome of Ct trophy. Teams play them at their peril not knowing which Pakistan team shows up on the day. The team that lost 10 games in a row or the one that won the Ct trophy. I know it sounds like nonsense and you can call it Lady Luck, fluke or whatever but the stars and moon seem to allign more often for this team than others. Or just in my mind basically the opposing team playing so laxed that they think they are playing a lowly team like Zimbabwe and Pakistan suddenly waking up seeing the opportunity and making a match out of it. And the scary thing is it's hard to plan against that.
 
Far too many of the posts in this thread are ignoring the effect of inadequate preparation and bad selection.

India have come reasonably close in spite of failing to prepare and acclimatise and picking the wrong players.

Consider this:

Azhar Ali 9 v Vijay 7
Sami Aslam 5 v Rahul 6
Babar Azam 5 v Pujara 6
Haris Sohail 5 v Kohli 9
Asad Shafiq 6 v Rohit 5
Sarfraz 8 v Parthiv 5
Shadab 6 v Ashwin 7
Amir 7 v Ishant 5
Abbas 7 v Bumrah 4
Hasan Ali 7 v Shami 6
Shaheen Shah Afridi 6 v Pandiya 6

Yes, with Rahane India would be significantly better in batting than Pakistan. But the Indian batting line up selected is not exactly full of successful Outside Asia batsmen.
 
By December, South Africa will have exceeded the annual white quota so much that they will be down to a maximum of 3-4 whites in the Test team v Pakistan.

I’m guessing Markram, Elgar, FAF and De Kock.

So I assume that AB and Steyn will retire from Tests after the Australia series in March to avoid the indignity of being dropped.

Which means Pakistan will probably encounter a team of:

1 Markram (white)
2 Elgar (white)
3 Amla
4 FAF (white)
5 Bavuma
6 De Kock (white)
7 Philander
8 Rabada
9 Maharaj
10 Ngidi
11 Additional non-white quick

No Steyn
No Morkel
No De Villiers
No Abbott
No Harmer

And dependent upon an Amla who is miles past his best. And an ageing Philander.
 
I honestly do believe that a PAK team picked on proper merit would have made this Centurion Test on that deck closer. This margin actually isn't showing the real gap because of an unreal innings and some chancy hits by Ash & Shami. Otherwise, to be honest IND was out played in every department & most sessions on what has to be the closest to home wicket that an Asian side can dream of outside Asia - same display, next time it might end with 250+ gap. For example, I can't prove, so don't charge me on that - a fit Yasir would have killed SAF in 2nd innings, trust me; Ashwin went for Lungi/78 in 29 overs. Run outs didn't help, but Amla could have taken that SAF total to 450 as well - nothing much in that.


Coming to Junaids' team and strategy I actually do agree most of that - though I am sure, some how SAF groundsmen will learn how to make it a green, grassy, cracked & bouncy track by the time PAK reaches there, but let's not go there. I expect one Test will be at Cape Town, which should be a decent track for Asian sides. Other 2 might be more towards opposite direction. No alternative but to start at least 2 weeks earlier and play couple of proper 4 day games against SAF A side or U23 side (Or against a proper FC team), where 11 plays & 11 fields.

To start with (don't shoot me on this), I don't find Sarfraz a Test Captain - unfit for 5 days, poor tactician, impatient and too busy - not decent in ant aspect to lead from the front. He can be a decent LO Captain, but for Test - no chance (And this time fan boys won't bring that CT or 12-2 run, it reads 0-2 against 1 man, without his only somewhat parallel in that XI - Angelo Mathews). And, I don't find him a WK at all - let alone Test WK. PAK team's success will depend 99% on bowlers - who at least deserve a WK upon whom they can be confident. No Sarfraz, and I don't care who Captains there after - last was 1971, when TCCB (ECB) picked Tony Lewis as Sarfraz. I'll go for the U19 kid Umair Masood as WK, who looks quite good with gloves and for Test batting (Ruhail is more suitable for LO role). Sarfraz averages 14 during his pomp in SAF - I expect Yasir to match that, and Umar Akmal didn't keep worse than him in the Department Final - shouldn't be any issues therefore.

1. Azhar has to open. For his partner, I am not sure how Sami can fit - even 45/0 at lunch, means it just allows SAF pacers to rest & come back again with score card standing like a telephone pole. Imam can be an option, but he is too raw - I'll take one of Amin or FZ as opener - probably Amin, because he has better defense (apparently)
No. 3 - Heart says Saud, but kid is too raw and surely Ul Haq won't give him few Tests against ZIM to feast (that might be reserved for MoHa's come back, God forbid). Have to go with Haris (Babar's confidence must be low after AUS tour)
No. 4 - Babar, may be by SAF we can exchange between #3 & #4, but as of now, it's Hari at 3
No. 5 - Saad Ali. People say guy is weak against pace, but I am not sure who is strong in PAK. Young man is scoring at 70/70 stats on what can't be called a batting paradise. But, Ul Haq must make sure that SAF isn't his debut series - there are 3 series before that, if he is Imandar.
No. 6 - Asad. Ideally, he should have batted at 3, but I guess his confidence is high at 6 - you should definitely feel good to better Sir Gary at somewhere in life if you are a cricketer.
No. 7 - Masood+
No. 8 - Hasan Ali
No. 9 - Yasir Shah - for the Nth time, I say, for Test - I pick bowlers (spinners) on bowling merit, not for their 20 runs with bat.
No. 10. Amir
No. 11. Open spot - on cracked surface, may be Wahab is tempting, but we should remember that guy'll be officially almost 35 by then. Not suggested - I'll take a chance with a new face - Hamza or even SS Afridi. SAF batsmen will play Abbas like off-spinner, hence not suggested at all. Asif was phenomenal in his last Test tour of SAF - but that was 13 years back, and since then guy's body has gone through several entertainments, on top of 13 years age - can't pick him for a 4 bowler strategy. Or may be, they can go for a totally new face - don't mind as long guy is not more than 25, by his passport.

Hari and Amin has to share at least 25 overs between them. Can't pick 5 bowlers for this PAK side, because even 10 bowlers won't compete if it happens to be 141/7 every time.


I'll keep Shadab in squad (Or Irfan) - it's like to like replacement. PAK should never play a finger spinner in SAF (there is none actually - Arthur didn't trust Asghar in UAE), and never 2 spinners, hence it's redundant to pick Raza or Asghar; rather better to stock one more leggi, if in case Yasir is injured - Hari can serve for SLAO role. If it's a St. George's like seemers track, may be a 4 men pace attack isn't bad option - in that case I'll pick one of Yamin or Fahim or even Talat, if he can add a bit to his bowling. On seemers track, PAK has to win (or will loose) inside 3.5 days max - that's 170 overs work load in 2 innings combined - 3 X 45, + 25 from 4th pacer (& Amin) & 10 from Hari.

Personally, I won't make Azhar, Asad, Babar Test Captain ever. Had he been a little more intelligent than mixing wife's pill, Yasir was a great option for Test Captaincy. I'll again say - make Amir Captain & back him, but, I leave Captaincy to the critics. If he can justify his batting spot, Amin isn't a bad shout either.


PS: For No. 4, since Ul Haq in early 2000s, the best back foot player from PAK I have seen is Babar's infamous cousin - may be for one last time .... but I don't know what his mental state & physique now.

Fully second that,,, [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] plz show this post to mickey and Inzi if you can, If this team is selected and it plays to its potential this team has potential to do some great things, but knowing how our system works there is more of a chance of [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] being the Next US president then of Pak fielding this team, But lets hope against hope. Shaheen Shah, Amir, Hassan and Yasir, Wao, there wont be many 250 plus scores for SAF that i can bet,,
 
I am the first to admit that India overall is a stronger Test team than Pakistan in Asia.

But India negligently squandered their chance to win a series in South Africa by:

1. Arriving far too late to acclimatise to the conditions (compare with Pakistan's excellent preparation in England in 2016).

2. Failing to pick proven Test players like Rahane who are specialists in such conditions.

3. Assuming that Limited Overs specialists have the technique or cricket brain to achieve in alien conditions. Pandiya's appalling ramp shot when the Second Test needed to be saved was the ultimate defeat for that strategy.

4. Assuming that reverse swing and spin can win Test matches in South Africa (or Australia or New Zealand). In general it is lift and pace and a full length on fourth stump which dismiss batsmen here.

So will Pakistan make the same errors?

The first thing they must do is recognise that their South African coach knows best. And when he says arrive 4 weeks before the First Test, just do it. At least South Africa is a cheap location to stay and practice and warm up in.

The second thing they must do is recognise that Yasir Shah will be as redundant as he was in Australia and New Zealand, where he averaged 65 with the ball. By all means pick a leggie, but at least Shadab Khan likes batting on bouncy tracks, and he will be far more useful in South Africa than Yasir Shah.

The third thing they must do is make sure they have 4 quick bowlers, and that at least 1 and preferably 2 are tall and fast. Once the Kookaburra goes soft, extra pace and lift are all that will keep the scoring rate down.

Fourthly, Pakistan will need batsmen with a track record against pace in Australian or South African conditions. That means Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq. It possibly means Babar Azam and Sami Aslam, who both looked okay at times Down Under, in spite of their failure to make big scores.


Good post although I dont agree with some of the points. Reverse swing did play a role in this series and Pandya scored a lot of runs using ODI techniques in the first match. Kohli once set plays Test cricket more or less like he does in ODI's. On such pitches playing tuk-tuk cricket wont fetch any runs and only adds to the pressure.

Main reasons for Indias loss were Fielding(catching specifically) and Running between the wickets.
 
ABDV is not going to stop playing tests anytime soon.

Without Steyn, they still have an attack of Rabada, Philander, Morkel and Ngidi. How are we going to handle such a good pace attack? Philander alone will destroy us on a seaming track. And the other bowlers will still take 20 wickets vs us quite easily if we get a flat track.

SA won in Aus without ABDV and Steyn. And while Amla was getting dominated by Hazlewood.

We will be fortunate to win one match. I think the likely result is that we get swept. However, since we are an unpredictable team, we might surprise people by winning a test. However, the likely result is us getting swept.

Pakistan would be lucky to win 1 session.
 
India missed a real opportunity to win in southafrica .
Havent been following a lot of cricket but southafrica have been poor for a while now . They were bad against an average English side .
Would be good for srilanka if they win though.
 
India missed a real opportunity to win in southafrica .
Havent been following a lot of cricket but southafrica have been poor for a while now . They were bad against an average English side .
Would be good for srilanka if they win though.

South Africa beat Australia 3-1. They're hardly a bad side. One series loss against England away doesn't matter. They're won 8 of their last 9 series.
 
This is the easiest series Pakistan are gonna get in SA ever. 4 man pace attack is something our management didn't plan for and then playing Rohit of all people screwed us over. Also since Morkel and AB have retired, they have lost their best batsman and their enforcer. MMHS' bowling attack is perfect for these conditions. 2-1 to PAK if they play well here.
 
This is the easiest series Pakistan are gonna get in SA ever. 4 man pace attack is something our management didn't plan for and then playing Rohit of all people screwed us over. Also since Morkel and AB have retired, they have lost their best batsman and their enforcer. MMHS' bowling attack is perfect for these conditions. 2-1 to PAK if they play well here.

Lol nice try at best we will win one test and lose 2 badly
 
Lol nice try at best we will win one test and lose 2 badly

Sa's bowling is no joke even now. They could play Ngidi/Philander/rabada/maharaj in their conditions and that is one helluva bowling lineup. But their batting is there to be taken. On current form, apart from Markram, they look extremely brittle.
 
Pakistan has a good chance to win at least 1 test in SA this time. If somehow, they can survive collapses and post 250+ scores, they can really challenge SA.
 
I dont have too many qualms about the test team to tbh: they have the squad and if that fares poorly thats on them.
Where i think they will truly struggle is the odi series. It is easily avoidable, but if they carry malik and hafeez they are asking to be demolished.
 
South Africa has always been a tough place to tour for Pakistan.I wish we played them in 2016 when they were horrible and we were doing well.Right now they are rebuilding.I expect us to beat them in the UAE but in SA they still have the advantage because of their bowling.
 
This is a very weak SA team no doubt. However, I dont see Pakistan winning the series or even being competitive in SA because of the reason as mentioned below:-

Pakistan dont have the batting lineup to face Vernon(who is a GOAT in SA), Rabada(GOAT everywhere he played till now), Steyn(past his peak but still enough for Pak batting) and Ngidi as well. Pakistan batting is not going to survive against that bowling attack while SA batters will still score runs against Pak bowlers.

India had the chance of winning because they had the batting to outperform SA's batting backed by a good bowling attack as well. However, the instability in batting due to wrong selection was the reason India lost the series and couldn't build the winning rythm early on.If there was one more test, India would have won that because they eventually got the winning rythm by the third test.

As far as series is UAE is concerned, the present SA team are most likely losing the series in UAE.
 
This is a very weak SA team no doubt. However, I dont see Pakistan winning the series or even being competitive in SA because of the reason as mentioned below:-

Pakistan dont have the batting lineup to face Vernon(who is a GOAT in SA), Rabada(GOAT everywhere he played till now), Steyn(past his peak but still enough for Pak batting) and Ngidi as well. Pakistan batting is not going to survive against that bowling attack while SA batters will still score runs against Pak bowlers.

India had the chance of winning because they had the batting to outperform SA's batting backed by a good bowling attack as well. However, the instability in batting due to wrong selection was the reason India lost the series and couldn't build the winning rythm early on.If there was one more test, India would have won that because they eventually got the winning rythm by the third test.

As far as series is UAE is concerned, the present SA team are most likely losing the series in UAE.

Bookmarked for future reference, brother :P
 
This is a very weak SA team no doubt. However, I dont see Pakistan winning the series or even being competitive in SA because of the reason as mentioned below:-

Pakistan dont have the batting lineup to face Vernon(who is a GOAT in SA), Rabada(GOAT everywhere he played till now), Steyn(past his peak but still enough for Pak batting) and Ngidi as well. Pakistan batting is not going to survive against that bowling attack while SA batters will still score runs against Pak bowlers.

India had the chance of winning because they had the batting to outperform SA's batting backed by a good bowling attack as well. However, the instability in batting due to wrong selection was the reason India lost the series and couldn't build the winning rythm early on.If there was one more test, India would have won that because they eventually got the winning rythm by the third test.

As far as series is UAE is concerned, the present SA team are most likely losing the series in UAE.

We did win a test in 2013 in SA when SA was gun test team so beating them in one test with there current form and team is not that much impossible your are making out to be.
 
We did win a test in 2013 in SA when SA was gun test team so beating them in one test with there current form and team is not that much impossible your are making out to be.

Post a link to the scorecard.
 
Ajmal and hafeez were pak's most successful bowler in 2013.
This time pak doesn’t have that much good spin attack.
 
pakistan has a good chance to beat South Africa if the pitches offer even a hint of turn. These batsmen are playing like tail-enders lately
 
We did win a test in 2013 in SA when SA was gun test team so beating them in one test with there current form and team is not that much impossible your are making out to be.

3-0 brother! That was a gun SA team but SA still has a gun bowling attack for SA conditions if Philander and Rabada are fit.
 
3-0 brother! That was a gun SA team but SA still has a gun bowling attack for SA conditions if Philander and Rabada are fit.

Looking at their performance against SL side i dare to say we have a chance to win one test but would depend on batting
 
Looking at their performance against SL side i dare to say we have a chance to win one test but would depend on batting

Yes, if you get drier conditions in one of the tests you can definitely win one.

I was very impressed by SA performance against Australia this year- the way they came back after the loss in first test and won the test series was a historical win:- Thanks to SA bowlers, ABD and Markram.
 
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