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Will you take the vaccine for Covid-19?

Will you take the vaccine for Covid-19?


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I have no interest in discussing this with a clown like yourself. The content is key in the report, dozens of others are reporting the same. My advise is DO NOT advise or pressure others to inject anything into their bodies, you don't know their medical history. Stick to whinging to your family. I wont be replying to you on this thread again because you're boring me.

LMAO. I see you want to continue with personal insults. I don’t mind, please carry on.
I am guessing you still haven’t found a college educated friend or relative who could offer you “advice” you would consider more valuable than mine. Obviously why else would you be consulting the Daily Express!
 
Interesting viewpoints by many people.
[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] I am curious. Are you against vaccines in general or just the Covid 19 vaccine?
.

Not at all, medical advances are great and im all for anything which helps peoples health.

These vaccines haven't gone through the usual tests but approved via an emergency. The vaccines also do not stop you getting the virus or passing it on. The new data shows natural immunity is also far better than vaccines. There is also an issue of side effects esp blood clots leading to deaths. Not to mention blackmailing people by restricting their freedoms.

I have no issue with anyone having the vaccine, its their life. But also those who wish not to take it , have a right not to.

I hate those who pressure or even advise anyone the vaccine, such people are brainwashed sheep imo.
 
Not at all, medical advances are great and im all for anything which helps peoples health.

These vaccines haven't gone through the usual tests but approved via an emergency. The vaccines also do not stop you getting the virus or passing it on. The new data shows natural immunity is also far better than vaccines. There is also an issue of side effects esp blood clots leading to deaths. Not to mention blackmailing people by restricting their freedoms.

I have no issue with anyone having the vaccine, its their life. But also those who wish not to take it , have a right not to.

I hate those who pressure or even advise anyone the vaccine, such people are brainwashed sheep imo.

Why do you lie. You are against vaccines in general. You have never taken one, you always claim that. Or was that all just random ** like other you try to regurgitate here all the time?
 
Ive never been vacincated for anything.

Can you guarantee me 100% there will be no serioius side effects later on in my life? Because the vaccine makers cant even guarantee it will work on me.

You are free to take it but everyone has a right do decide what is injected into their body.

Just a reminder for the ** this guy flings around here and then forgets about. Lol

You are coming from an anti vaccine bias, whether your own or your family’s who never vaccinated you for anything. I think it’s safe to say, you are an anti vaxxer and one with zero credibility because you keep flip flopping and lying about your history with vaccines.
 
Sure, let’s start putting our belief in a conspiracy theory loving media outlet. You bash others for believing CNN, BBC, etc and yet you are citing Express .. truly a face palm moment!

Please scroll above and read my post. What should I do now?
 
Not at all, medical advances are great and im all for anything which helps peoples health.

These vaccines haven't gone through the usual tests but approved via an emergency. The vaccines also do not stop you getting the virus or passing it on. The new data shows natural immunity is also far better than vaccines. There is also an issue of side effects esp blood clots leading to deaths. Not to mention blackmailing people by restricting their freedoms.

I have no issue with anyone having the vaccine, its their life. But also those who wish not to take it , have a right not to.

I hate those who pressure or even advise anyone the vaccine, such people are brainwashed sheep imo.

This is social media falsehood. AstraZenica went through the usual clinical tests.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-vaccines-clinical-trials-idUSKBN2A22D3

It didn’t go through the last phase of registration by the Medicine and Healthcare Regulatory Products Agency, because 2000 Britons were dying every day.

All the American vaccines have met full FDA approval.

No vaccine stops you getting a disease. It primes your immune system, so you fight it off quicker. For example I had the BCG jab. That means that if the TB bacteria enter my lungs I will probably be able to destroy the invader before it takes hold and I need antibiotics for months.

On the blood clots issue, that is part of how COVID kills its victims. In a very few people there might be a similar reaction as the vaccine stimulates your body to create part of the COVID molecule and then you raise antibodies. But this vaccine blood clot risk is extremely low. It’s roughly the probability of getting struck by lightning. I am much more at risk from crossing the road.
 
Interesting viewpoints by many people.
[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] I am curious. Are you against vaccines in general or just the Covid 19 vaccine?

@Technics1210 A lot of mainstream pharmaceutical stuff is for profit and off course vaccines would be created if there was some profit for the mainstream pharmaceutical companies. I don't understand why ANYONE should play the LOVE HUMANITY card when the entire world works on principle of give and take?

You claim that pharma companies are only interested in profit and for sustainability of the West. How is that not different from you ONLY CARING about the success of YOUR FAMILY AND CHILDREN and not worried about how the neighbors are getting on (besides the religious perspective of polite inquiry).

Self righteousness is never correct, because we are all part of the same game.

Pharma companies and West might do it blatantly. We do it subtly in the comfort of our own homes.

If money doesn't matter, I suggest you start working for free and not claim a cent and try to live your life. Wonder how far that takes you.



My vaccination opinion.

It doesn't matter what the vaccine does or doesn't do. A jab won't kill you. If it does, you were about to die anyways.
[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] The only question is "if many people get vaccinated" herd immunity will set it in and if "some people choose not to get vaccinated" the "herd immunity will be enough. So let the people who are against Covid 19 vaccine live in peace because they won't harm IF ENOUGH PEOPLE get vaccinated.


The second point is very soon "airlines/countries will make it mandatory for vaccination to happen to enter other countries or visit "places of privilege".

Unless most people choose to stay in their homes and waste their lives in anger and indignation against a useful/useless jab, they WILL HAVE TO GET VACCINATED.

Personally, I don't see what the hullabaloo is.

If you feel vaccine is good for you, take it.

If you feel the vaccine is a Western/Zionist conspiracy rendered to make you infertile (or any other favorite excuse here) don't take it.

No one will force you to take the vaccine unless you love travelling, visit vaccine mandatory places or are applying for asylum/immigration.

I feel I am suffering from after effects of covid vaccine. For my entire life I have never had BP issue and have been pretty healthy (touchwood).
for last 7 years of so I have not taken even a paracetamol tablet and then I take 2 hits of sinopharm in feb 2021 and it’s ok. Then I am asked to take 2 shots of Pfizer in June 2021. During all those times, my BP has been checked and found no issue except when I went to take Pfizer second jab. After the Pfizer first jab, my BP starred shooting high and I should have not taken the second one.

But such was the hype and push from all quarters that I went and got the second shot. They do a customary check for BP before giving the jab and it was a high. Finally I got the job on third try.
Everyone said it is safe and if I don’t take it I will be having a weaker immune system.
Now, I have high BP condition immediately after the Jab and have been diagnosed with having vertigo.

A bit about my time since the Covid-19 outbreak happened : I have been working since April2020 till date on site. I am a contractor. I worked from home for a grand total of 4 days in March 2020 when government called a curfew. My colleagues were in same position too and some of them got the virus and recovered after 10 days.
So all this talk about unvaccinated people dying was something happening with people having some kind of co-morbidity and not to people like me. This we all kept telling each other but we all rushed to take the vaccine soon as it was announced.
Why?

Rules were to do PCR test very 7 days if you don’t take the vaccine or you cannot enter offices, public areas and for contractors like me this was getting impossible to work
Also as I said the hype and push was so high to listen to all the experts and we had so many of them saying blah blah blah but with a fine print.

So yeah everyone has a choice but this I know now and it is too late. This message is for people who are in favour of vaccine, please check the symptoms after the first jab and take the second one only if you are ok. If needed keep a 2 month gap, I didn’t and kept only 3 weeks and didn’t have time to think objectively. Maybe few more weeks would have given me enough time to meet specialist doctors and do all the checks and get an exemption.

And pls dont slur anti vaxxers as I agree with what some of them are saying. (not the ones who are spreading conspiracy theories about government injecting secret spies lol)
 
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I feel I am suffering from after effects of covid vaccine. For my entire life I have never had BP issue and have been pretty healthy (touchwood).
for last 7 years of so I have not taken even a paracetamol tablet and then I take 2 hits of sinopharm in feb 2021 and itÂ’s ok. Then I am asked to take 2 shots of Pfizer in June 2021. During all those times, my BP has been checked and found no issue except when I went to take Pfizer second jab. After the Pfizer first jab, my BP starred shooting high and I should have not taken the second one.

But such was the hype and push from all quarters that I went and got the second shot. They do a customary check for BP before giving the jab and it was a high. Finally I got the job on third try.
Everyone said it is safe and if I donÂ’t take it I will be having a weaker immune system.
Now, I have high BP condition immediately after the Jab and have been diagnosed with having vertigo.

A bit about my time since the Covid-19 outbreak happened : I have been working since April2020 till date on site. I am a contractor. I worked from home for a grand total of 4 days in March 2020 when government called a curfew. My colleagues were in same position too and some of them got the virus and recovered after 10 days.
So all this talk about unvaccinated people dying was something happening with people having some kind of co-morbidity and not to people like me. This we all kept telling each other but we all rushed to take the vaccine soon as it was announced.
Why?

Rules were to do PCR test very 7 days if you donÂ’t take the vaccine or you cannot enter offices, public areas and for contractors like me this was getting impossible to work
Also as I said the hype and push was so high to listen to all the experts and we had so many of them saying blah blah blah but with a fine print.

So yeah everyone has a choice but this I know now and it is too late. This message is for people who are in favour of vaccine, please check the symptoms after the first jab and take the second one only if you are ok. If needed keep a 2 month gap, I didnÂ’t and kept only 3 weeks and didnÂ’t have time to think objectively. Maybe few more weeks would have given me enough time to meet specialist doctors and do all the checks and get an exemption.

And pls dont slur anti vaxxers as I agree with what some of them are saying. (not the ones who are spreading conspiracy theories about government injecting secret spies lol)

Side effects happen to MMR vaccine also.

Does that mean we shouldnt get MMR also?
 
I feel I am suffering from after effects of covid vaccine. For my entire life I have never had BP issue and have been pretty healthy (touchwood).
for last 7 years of so I have not taken even a paracetamol tablet and then I take 2 hits of sinopharm in feb 2021 and itÂ’s ok. Then I am asked to take 2 shots of Pfizer in June 2021. During all those times, my BP has been checked and found no issue except when I went to take Pfizer second jab. After the Pfizer first jab, my BP starred shooting high and I should have not taken the second one.

But such was the hype and push from all quarters that I went and got the second shot. They do a customary check for BP before giving the jab and it was a high. Finally I got the job on third try.
Everyone said it is safe and if I donÂ’t take it I will be having a weaker immune system.
Now, I have high BP condition immediately after the Jab and have been diagnosed with having vertigo.

A bit about my time since the Covid-19 outbreak happened : I have been working since April2020 till date on site. I am a contractor. I worked from home for a grand total of 4 days in March 2020 when government called a curfew. My colleagues were in same position too and some of them got the virus and recovered after 10 days.
So all this talk about unvaccinated people dying was something happening with people having some kind of co-morbidity and not to people like me. This we all kept telling each other but we all rushed to take the vaccine soon as it was announced.
Why?

Rules were to do PCR test very 7 days if you donÂ’t take the vaccine or you cannot enter offices, public areas and for contractors like me this was getting impossible to work
Also as I said the hype and push was so high to listen to all the experts and we had so many of them saying blah blah blah but with a fine print.

So yeah everyone has a choice but this I know now and it is too late. This message is for people who are in favour of vaccine, please check the symptoms after the first jab and take the second one only if you are ok. If needed keep a 2 month gap, I didnÂ’t and kept only 3 weeks and didnÂ’t have time to think objectively. Maybe few more weeks would have given me enough time to meet specialist doctors and do all the checks and get an exemption.

And pls dont slur anti vaxxers as I agree with what some of them are saying. (not the ones who are spreading conspiracy theories about government injecting secret spies lol)

I am sorry to hear about your situation. Do you suffer from chronic BP now or did it happen only after the jab?

There are definitely reports of some people showing this adverse effect but it doesn’t last very long. According to one study, 0.07% of cases showed these symptoms, so it’s a fairly minuscule number and unfortunately you are one of them. I believe there are always certain risk factors associated with medicine. Most drugs we take have side effects with potentially serious consequences in some cases and yet we all take them because we play the percentage game.

Some here will claim they have never taken any vaccination or medicine, and that’s well and good for them, I just don’t think they should be preaching they are right using falsehoods and false stats here.

We all rushed to take the vaccine to stop the rot. It’s a pandemic, mate. It calls for immediate action. 4.9 million have died so far across the world. More would have died if the vaccines were not invented. If you believe the conspiracy theories about the death toll and don’t believe any of it is true, then unfortunately nobody can convince you you made the right decision taking the vaccine.
 
I have got an absolutely stinking cold at present.

Hope it’s a cold and not Delta. No cough, and sense of taste is still here.

We are Plague Island thanks to our useless government. Look at the absolute state of this….

B533B8BA-E1AD-466D-9264-69F25FA3DF94.jpg
 
We do way more testing than other countries. Thankfully the government plans to conclude mass testing soon. It is extremely expensive and just creates unnecessary panic.
 
probably effects of the vaccine, many double vaccinated people are suffering this but of course msm do not report this.
 
@Technics1210 A lot of mainstream pharmaceutical stuff is for profit and off course vaccines would be created if there was some profit for the mainstream pharmaceutical companies. I don't understand why ANYONE should play the LOVE HUMANITY card when the entire world works on principle of give and take?

You claim that pharma companies are only interested in profit and for sustainability of the West. How is that not different from you ONLY CARING about the success of YOUR FAMILY AND CHILDREN and not worried about how the neighbors are getting on (besides the religious perspective of polite inquiry).

Self righteousness is never correct, because we are all part of the same game.

Pharma companies and West might do it blatantly. We do it subtly in the comfort of our own homes.

If money doesn't matter, I suggest you start working for free and not claim a cent and try to live your life. Wonder how far that takes you.

You really need to read my posts in more detail, and come up with better analogies.

I clearly mentioned that big pharma hold their customers to RANSOM by selling medicine at extortionate prices - do you understand? Who said money doesn’t matter?

NHS and USA health care (which is a racket) give big pharma a huge influence in politics at the highest level too. Plus read this thread again, if vaccinated people claim there is a moral obligation to take the C19 vaccines, then where is the moral obligation of big pharma? This was my point.

Also it’s laughable for you to compare MMR vs C19 vaccine - one has over 50 years of study and data with the side effects well documented and understood, while C19 vaccine is barely a year old.
 
probably effects of the vaccine, many double vaccinated people are suffering this but of course msm do not report this.

Not effects of the vaccine. Effects of COVID. Vaccinated people are still getting COVID. But COVID is very unlikely to kill them, because the vaccine protects them.
 
Interesting viewpoints by many people. [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] I am curious. Are you against vaccines in general or just the Covid 19 vaccine?

The term antivaxxer is idiotic at best. Im not against any vaccine or any form of medicine if it works and is better than what he body naturally produces. In this case, these vaccines are being used have not gone through the tests but rushed through. They don't stop you from getting the virus, don't stop you from passing it on and could even kill you, as many have died around the world.

Spot on.

There is no reason to trust a vaccine that is barely a year old and fast-tracked.

Ironic, the people waiting for the long term data/studies before taking a vaccine are dubbed ant-vaxxers because they do not subscribe to the advise of governments and bodies which have a proven track record of lying.
 

yep. About time too. We need to get our national debt [~100% of GDP] down wherever we can after spending an obscene half a trillion pounds (!) on Covid-related matters, and there has been very little benefit to mass testing at any point.

We do an utterly ludicrous amount of testing (millions of people per week), way more than any other country & many of the “cases” are asymptomatic people or false positives who will never transmit the virus or even get ill with it.

Like I said above this approach just creates pointless panic. It also results in a fair amount of non-contextual and biased statistical analysis where only the case numbers are mentioned and the testing rates are not.
 
Still feel awful.

Lateral flow tests negative so far.
 
I have got an absolutely stinking cold at present.

Hope it’s a cold and not Delta. No cough, and sense of taste is still here.

We are Plague Island thanks to our useless government. Look at the absolute state of this….

View attachment 112239

You are sensationalising.

Firstly the full article should be cited:

Covid: The UK is Europe's virus hotspot - does it matter? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58849024

Secondly , about 500 out of 1 Million is 0.0007% infection rate! Rolling average!

Thirdly, in the same article, the number of deaths is currently less than 1 per million! Yes less than 1 per million rolling average in the UK - why do you not post this stat?

Lastly, UK carries out more C19 tests than any EU nation.

Your style of reporting is precisely why MSM sensationalism is the real problem, don’t just focus on the graphs, look ay the axis - it creates unnecessary fear and false-hoods - thank god for the internet free thinkers.
 
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Still feel awful.

Lateral flow tests negative so far.

Sounds to me like that particularly bad seasonal cold, the cold which is spreading around because we all got locked down for a year and largely lost our natural immunities.
 
You are sensationalising.

Firstly the full article should be cited:

Covid: The UK is Europe's virus hotspot - does it matter? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58849024

Secondly , about 500 out of 1 Million is 0.0007% infection rate! Rolling average!

Thirdly, in the same article, the number of deaths is currently less than 1 per million! Yes less than 1 per million rolling average in the UK - why do you not post this stat?

Lastly, UK carries out more C19 tests than any EU nation.

Your style of reporting is precisely why MSM sensationalism is the real problem, don’t just focus on the graphs, look ay the axis - it creates unnecessary fear and false-hoods - thank god for the internet free thinkers.

Looking further down the article you will see that our rolling death rate is twice that of France, Germany and Spain.

The only stat that matters is 150,000 dead on COVID Island.

Our government is useless. Why aren’t the Britons enraged by this?
 
Sounds to me like that particularly bad seasonal cold, the cold which is spreading around because we all got locked down for a year and largely lost our natural immunities.

Hopefully. Have felt rotten for 48 hours. Might start to feel better tomorrow. When my nose starts streaming I am on the mend.

Was scared as Mrs R’s business partner got Delta and looked dreadful for two weeks, but has turned the corner. She was double jabbed with no underlying conditions. The vaccine very likely saved her from hospitalisation.
 
Looking further down the article you will see that our rolling death rate is twice that of France, Germany and Spain.

The only stat that matters is 150,000 dead on COVID Island.

Our government is useless. Why aren’t the Britons enraged by this?

I think most people in the UK have accepted that if our citizens are to live fulfilling lives within a nation that is actually functioning on a cultural and social level, not to mention one that is in some way economically viable, then the society at large will have to also absorb an element of risk from respiratory viruses which overwhelmingly affect the elderly and clinically vulnerable.

New Zealand has now formally ended its Zero Covid policy, as confirmed by Jacinda Ardern last week. Why do you think that is? Mere humans cannot contain a respiratory virus forever and also have an operational society. It. Does. Not. Work.

These high level decisions are of course never straightforward. Covid is a deadly virus and some people also suffer from Long Covid — but then mitigation measures are damaging as well.

In the UK, the lockdowns have caused the suicide rate to increase notably, drug abuse is at an all time high, and incidences of domestic violence have rocketed. There is also a ten year backlog in the NHS that has been built up by prioritising Covid to the nth degree, making GP appointments completely inaccessible, postponing cancer treatments, and cancelling operations.

Lockdowns kill people as well. The excess death rate has increased because of both Covid and lockdowns. So — what does one do? It’s not a simple matter at all.

Vaccines, realistically, are the best long term defence that we have against this virus.
 
Looking further down the article you will see that our rolling death rate is twice that of France, Germany and Spain.

The only stat that matters is 150,000 dead on COVID Island.

Our government is useless. Why aren’t the Britons enraged by this?

Sounds to me your post is a veiled attack on Brexit.

UK has more people vaccinated per capita than the countries you mention and was ahead of the vaccine curve compared to the EU.

So, is it that the vaccine isn't working in the UK or the stats from EU are questionable?
 
PS: more people die of alcohol/smoking compared to 1 in a million covid figure. This is perhaps one reason why people of UK simply do not care - there are other concerns which dwarf C19.
 
I think most people in the UK have accepted that if our citizens are to live fulfilling lives within a nation that is actually functioning on a cultural and social level, not to mention one that is in some way economically viable, then the society at large will have to also absorb an element of risk from respiratory viruses which overwhelmingly affect the elderly and clinically vulnerable.

New Zealand has now formally ended its Zero Covid policy, as confirmed by Jacinda Ardern last week. Why do you think that is? Mere humans cannot contain a respiratory virus forever and also have an operational society. It. Does. Not. Work.

These high level decisions are of course never straightforward. Covid is a deadly virus and some people also suffer from Long Covid — but then mitigation measures are damaging as well.

In the UK, the lockdowns have caused the suicide rate to increase notably, drug abuse is at an all time high, and incidences of domestic violence have rocketed. There is also a ten year backlog in the NHS that has been built up by prioritising Covid to the nth degree, making GP appointments completely inaccessible, postponing cancer treatments, and cancelling operations.

Lockdowns kill people as well. The excess death rate has increased because of both Covid and lockdowns. So — what does one do? It’s not a simple matter at all.

Vaccines, realistically, are the best long term defence that we have against this virus.

I don’t think the problem right now with ongoing surges is lack of lockdowns or whatever. I think it’s vaccine hesitation/refusal whatever you want to call it or low vac rates for whatever reason across the world. We can have a functioning society without lockdowns if we practice common sense precaution and get our vaccination rates up. Lockdowns and such are not going to work, that I do agree with.
 
Sounds to me your post is a veiled attack on Brexit.

UK has more people vaccinated per capita than the countries you mention and was ahead of the vaccine curve compared to the EU.

So, is it that the vaccine isn't working in the UK or the stats from EU are questionable?

Actually the UK has fallen behind the European mainland states in terms of vaccine roll-out. We started fast but they caught up and overtook us.

Nothing to do with Brexit on this occasion, just incompetent government. If Macron or Merkel were in charge instead of Johnson, we would have suffered fewer deaths.
 
PS: more people die of alcohol/smoking compared to 1 in a million covid figure. This is perhaps one reason why people of UK simply do not care - there are other concerns which dwarf C19.

They don’t.

Smoking kills about 80,000 per year on average:

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/lifestyle/what-are-the-health-risks-of-smoking/

Drinking alcohol kills about 8000 per year in direct terms and about 70,000 in co-morbidity terms:

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/alcohol-related-harm-and-drinking-behaviour-1

So smoking and drinking don’t “dwarf” COVID as killers.
 
I think most people in the UK have accepted that if our citizens are to live fulfilling lives within a nation that is actually functioning on a cultural and social level, not to mention one that is in some way economically viable, then the society at large will have to also absorb an element of risk from respiratory viruses which overwhelmingly affect the elderly and clinically vulnerable.

New Zealand has now formally ended its Zero Covid policy, as confirmed by Jacinda Ardern last week. Why do you think that is? Mere humans cannot contain a respiratory virus forever and also have an operational society. It. Does. Not. Work.

These high level decisions are of course never straightforward. Covid is a deadly virus and some people also suffer from Long Covid — but then mitigation measures are damaging as well.

In the UK, the lockdowns have caused the suicide rate to increase notably, drug abuse is at an all time high, and incidences of domestic violence have rocketed. There is also a ten year backlog in the NHS that has been built up by prioritising Covid to the nth degree, making GP appointments completely inaccessible, postponing cancer treatments, and cancelling operations.

Lockdowns kill people as well. The excess death rate has increased because of both Covid and lockdowns. So — what does one do? It’s not a simple matter at all.

Vaccines, realistically, are the best long term defence that we have against this virus.

I’m talking about the detail of the government’s plan:

1. Dithering for two weeks instead of locking us down, thereby blowing the two-week lead we had over Italy and Spain

2. Failing to invoke harsh penalties for breaking quarantine

3. Letting us out for Christmas in a purely populist move, sending the death rate stratospheric

3. Vaccine hesitancy due to Johnson’s sheer mendacity.

4. Blowing £34B of taxpayers money to enrich their donors on track-and trace instead of using the German open-source system, in another populist move to be “world class”. Akin to buying a Vauxhall for £30K when your German mate offers you a Merc for nothing.

Why don’t more of the British notice these things? When did we become so easy to mug off?
 
Got my 3rd shot of the Pfizer vaccine. Must say the symptoms are a bit more intense as compared to the second shot.
 
They don’t.

Smoking kills about 80,000 per year on average:

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/lifestyle/what-are-the-health-risks-of-smoking/

Drinking alcohol kills about 8000 per year in direct terms and about 70,000 in co-morbidity terms:

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/alcohol-related-harm-and-drinking-behaviour-1

So smoking and drinking don’t “dwarf” COVID as killers.

So you are telling me smoking and drinking deaths are less than 1 in a million per week?
 
I’m talking about the detail of the government’s plan:

1. Dithering for two weeks instead of locking us down, thereby blowing the two-week lead we had over Italy and Spain

2. Failing to invoke harsh penalties for breaking quarantine

3. Letting us out for Christmas in a purely populist move, sending the death rate stratospheric

3. Vaccine hesitancy due to Johnson’s sheer mendacity.

4. Blowing £34B of taxpayers money to enrich their donors on track-and trace instead of using the German open-source system, in another populist move to be “world class”. Akin to buying a Vauxhall for £30K when your German mate offers you a Merc for nothing.

Why don’t more of the British notice these things? When did we become so easy to mug off?

The British have stopped paying attention to the lies and sensationalism. For starters you are claiming 150K have died in the UK due to covid when the figure is actually 138K according to John Hopkins.

Moreover, dying with C19 and dying because of C19 are 2 very different things. Multiple reports have proven that incorrect cause of death were reported during the C19 pandemic.

Moreover, many who were due medicine, operation, consultation on other diseases such as cancer, have had to wait, suffer, or died, due to such sensationalism. You think the families who lost their loved ones to more serious illnesses will give a hoot about MSM/government? Especially when there’s a vaccine or 2 for C19?

As for December 2020; many elderly needed help during the winter, the economy was in the pits, a vaccine had been approved - so made sense to slowly reopen crucial businesses and services. Alas, the new variant struck, all because the lefties were shouting ‘racists’ when the government suggested a full travel ban in 1st quarter of 2020.

If we were still in lockdown, the economy tanking, people dying due to non C19 related illnesses, jobs lost, homes repossessed, social unrest, then you wouldn’t be blaming the government, you’d be blaming Brexit.

Hindsight is 20/20 vision.
 
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Spot on.

There is no reason to trust a vaccine that is barely a year old and fast-tracked.

Ironic, the people waiting for the long term data/studies before taking a vaccine are dubbed ant-vaxxers because they do not subscribe to the advise of governments and bodies which have a proven track record of lying.

Numerous new studies are now showing natural immunity is over 20 x more superior than natural immunity.

Everyone has a right to take any medicine but everyone also has a right not to. We dont want to live in an open prison and be forced to be injected with anything.



Still feel awful.

Lateral flow tests negative so far.

Hope you feel better soon Robert. I wont debate this further until you do.
 
The British have stopped paying attention to the lies and sensationalism. For starters you are claiming 150K have died in the UK due to covid when the figure is actually 138K according to John Hopkins.

Moreover, dying with C19 and dying because of C19 are 2 very different things. Multiple reports have proven that incorrect cause of death were reported during the C19 pandemic.

Moreover, many who were due medicine, operation, consultation on other diseases such as cancer, have had to wait, suffer, or died, due to such sensationalism. You think the families who lost their loved ones to more serious illnesses will give a hoot about MSM/government? Especially when there’s a vaccine or 2 for C19?

As for December 2020; many elderly needed help during the winter, the economy was in the pits, a vaccine had been approved - so made sense to slowly reopen crucial businesses and services. Alas, the new variant struck, all because the lefties were shouting ‘racists’ when the government suggested a full travel ban in 1st quarter of 2020.

If we were still in lockdown, the economy tanking, people dying due to non C19 related illnesses, jobs lost, homes repossessed, social unrest, then you wouldn’t be blaming the government, you’d be blaming Brexit.

Hindsight is 20/20 vision.

All the European states have done better against COVID. Why do you make excuses for the incompetent chancers in our government? Where are you spinning for them? They are contemptible. They should be in jail.
 
All the European states have done better against COVID. Why do you make excuses for the incompetent chancers in our government? Where are you spinning for them? They are contemptible. They should be in jail.

UK has vaccinated more per capita than European states. Are you saying the vaccines are not working in the UK?

I am not spinning anything, your love for the EU has clouded your judgement.
 
This is not a Right v Left issue or Brexit/Stay issue, this is a scientific matter where many people have been duped into believing vaccines are a miracle cure or even any good in the first place (speaking of the covid vaccines in particular).
 
This is not a Right v Left issue or Brexit/Stay issue, this is a scientific matter where many people have been duped into believing vaccines are a miracle cure or even any good in the first place (speaking of the covid vaccines in particular).

I see it completely the other way around. It is a Right v Left issue, because there is no cause or reason to have a scientific disagreement on the subject, for at least United States. The more recent covid fatalities are mostly (85%) of unvaccinated people, which is a strong evidence of how vaccine has worked for most people.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc...ore-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html
 
I see it completely the other way around. It is a Right v Left issue, because there is no cause or reason to have a scientific disagreement on the subject, for at least United States. The more recent covid fatalities are mostly (85%) of unvaccinated people, which is a strong evidence of how vaccine has worked for most people.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc...ore-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html

Someone who dies testing positive from covid is not necessarily suffering from it. I know this, I am a GP.

And the stand, by most in the scientific community who are of this opinion, is not that someone should or should not take the vaccine but that the choice should be available. Right now, many people who are healthy and do not need the vaccine are being brainwashed into taking it by peer pressure and media nonsense.

Natural immunity, age, lack of various health conditions are cited in countless peer reviewed papers as reasons not to take the vaccine. Not to mention myocarditis and various other side effects.
 
Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) challenges HHS Secretary Xavier Becerra on the Biden administration's vaccine mandates and says the science is against them when it comes to naturally acquired immunity for those who have already had COVID-19 infections. "The science is against you on this. The science is clear. Naturally-acquired immunity is as good as a vaccine," Paul says. And he points to an Israeli study that he says shows people who have been vaccinated against COVID are more likely to get infected again than people who had COVID before and recovered but who did not get vaccinated. "This isn't an argument against the vaccine, but it's an argument for letting people make a decision who already have immunity," he says.

Watch the video! Rips him a new one!

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4979775/senator-paul-asserts-natural-immunity-good-covid-19-vaccine
 
Someone who dies testing positive from covid is not necessarily suffering from it. I know this, I am a GP.

And the stand, by most in the scientific community who are of this opinion, is not that someone should or should not take the vaccine but that the choice should be available. Right now, many people who are healthy and do not need the vaccine are being brainwashed into taking it by peer pressure and media nonsense.

Natural immunity, age, lack of various health conditions are cited in countless peer reviewed papers as reasons not to take the vaccine. Not to mention myocarditis and various other side effects.

I have a lot of doctors in the family and they all think vaccine is doing its job and it’s worth it. Of course even professionals can differ on a subject. I have to admit though that those who agree with you are in the minority.
 
UK has vaccinated more per capita than European states. Are you saying the vaccines are not working in the UK?

I am not spinning anything, your love for the EU has clouded your judgement.

Your figures are out of date. Most European states passed us in vaccination rates after slow starts. This has nothing to do love of EU and all about fury with the incompetent British government whose inaction or wrong action killed so many of us.

Here from the right-wing Spectator magazine

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-real-reason-britain-failed-on-coronavirus

The joint health and science super-committee's report into 'lessons learned' on the UK's coronavirus response may not want to 'point fingers of blame' for the grotesque failures, but my goodness it leaves the reader angry and upset.

It confirms so much that we knew anyway, namely:

1) The early consensus among ministers, officials and scientists was that 'herd immunity by infection was the inevitable outcome'.

2) That this led to lockdown being delayed, at a cost of thousands of lives.

3) That there was a 'serious early error in adopting this fatalistic approach and not considering a more emphatic and rigorous approach to stopping the spread of the virus as adopted by many East and South East Asian countries'.

4) That there was 'groupthink' among official scientific advisers and the government which meant 'we were not as open to approaches being taken elsewhere as we should have been'.

To be clear, the success of countries like Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore and China in limiting the spread of the virus through strict isolation of those infected and prohibitions on travel was conspicuous as early as February 2020.


The approach was rejected by ministers, scientists and officials as simply not the British way.

Lockdown was delayed, at a cost of thousands of lives.

For the avoidance of doubt – and before I move on – this 'Whitehall and Britain knows best' culture remains a cancer in the system, contingency planning against future risks is lamentably poor, and is a reason why the current response to the energy spikes and supply chain breakdown has been so chaotic. Rightly the MPs on the committee, chaired by former Tory ministers Jeremy Hunt and Greg Clark, highlight the 'serious mistake' of stopping testing for the virus in the community just as cases were really taking off, in March 2020.

And it is almost a bad joke that the UK was one of the first countries in the world to develop a reliable test for Covid-19 but then 'failed to translate that scientific leadership into operational success in establishing an effective test and trace system during the first year of the pandemic'.

The committee says 'vast quantities of taxpayers' money' was directed at NHS Test and Trace, but its performance was 'slow, uncertain and often chaotic'.

It took far too long – 'the best part of a year' – for the government to acknowledge that 'the optimal structure for test and trace is one that is locally driven with the ability to draw on central surge capacity'.

The section on 'the many thousands of deaths which could have been avoided' in care homes will probably make your blood boil.

The MPs identify a 'lack of priority attached to social care in the initial phase of the pandemic' – that is negligence in the care of the most vulnerable people in our communities – which was 'illustrative of a longstanding failure to afford social care the same attention as the NHS'.

They cite 'the rapid discharge of people from hospitals into care homes without adequate testing or rigorous isolation' as a mistake which other countries – notably Germany and Hong Kong – did not make.

This combination of this negligence and failure to learn from abroad is a consistent and depressing theme. All that said, the development, procurement and roll out of vaccines is an important success, as is the Recovery trial that identified Dexamethasone as an effective treatment and Hydrochloroquine as an ineffective one.

But we are doomed to mediocrity as a nation if we refuse to learn from what we got wrong.

That wouldn't be far enough away from the monkeys and typewriters approach to writing Shakespeare, the infinite monkey theorem route to greatness. And there's another thing: our national psychology therapy on the Covid-19 debacle will only be half complete if we simply point to flaws in the system.

Boris Johnson's promised public inquiry must be about individuals taking responsibility for what went wrong.

This is not about vindictive blame. It is about cultural renewal, that can only take place when we properly understand who did what, why and when.

The part of the report that is most upsetting relates to the grotesque racial and social inequalities that the pandemic exacerbated.

MPs highlighted the 'increased exposure to Covid as a result of people's housing and working conditions'.

And what made me wince with vicarious shame was this:

'We also hear that black, Asian and minority ethnic staff in the NHS, who are underrepresented in leadership and management roles, faced greater difficulty in accessing the appropriate and usable Personal Protective Equipment'.

There is an urgent need, say MPs, 'to address the working conditions which have put staff from black, Asian and minority ethnic communities at greater risk'. Quite. They also shine a light on the 'disproportionately high mortality rates that people with disabilities and autistic people have suffered – because of inadequate access to care, and 'because access restrictions which prevented family members and other carers accompanying people with learning disabilities in hospital to perform their expected advocacy role'.

The appalling consequence – and I choose my words forensically – was that ''do not attempt CPR' notices were issued inappropriately for some people with learning disabilities'.

To put it another way, vulnerable people died for the want of someone who loved them at their bedside to champion and protect them.

Never again. Please.
 
The article conviently fails to mention the U-Turns by the WHO. First we were told the virus doesn't transfer from one human to another, then the U-turn, it does. Then masks will not make a difference, then the U-turn, they do. This was the advise from the world health organisation - bunch of scientists who had no clue and were feeding guesswork to the world.

Moreover the liberals were against shutting down air-travel early 2020 in the UK because it was akin to racism. Ah yes, we didn't want to follow the footsteps of the Trump organisation at the time.

The success of countries in the far East is down to government authority, here in the UK, we are too busy trying to protect democracy and feelings.

Still the furlough move saved more livelihoods during the pandemic, the speed at which the vaccine was rolled out was impressive, and the juggling between total economic meltdown and lockdowns played out fairly well.

As I said, in hindsight it's all very easy to point out the flaws, but at the time there was pure panic and misinformation by scientists.

Lessons learned : never trust scientists especially when there is no consensus among them, screw democracy and liberalism when it comes to looking after your own, never, never, put all you eggs in 1 basket - the EU, and keep a control on mainstream media during a panic.
 
The article conviently fails to mention the U-Turns by the WHO. First we were told the virus doesn't transfer from one human to another, then the U-turn, it does. Then masks will not make a difference, then the U-turn, they do. This was the advise from the world health organisation - bunch of scientists who had no clue and were feeding guesswork to the world.

Moreover the liberals were against shutting down air-travel early 2020 in the UK because it was akin to racism. Ah yes, we didn't want to follow the footsteps of the Trump organisation at the time.

The success of countries in the far East is down to government authority, here in the UK, we are too busy trying to protect democracy and feelings.

Still the furlough move saved more livelihoods during the pandemic, the speed at which the vaccine was rolled out was impressive, and the juggling between total economic meltdown and lockdowns played out fairly well.

As I said, in hindsight it's all very easy to point out the flaws, but at the time there was pure panic and misinformation by scientists.

Lessons learned : never trust scientists especially when there is no consensus among them, screw democracy and liberalism when it comes to looking after your own, never, never, put all you eggs in 1 basket - the EU, and keep a control on mainstream media during a panic.

LMAO…!

And they say oh nooo, Covid and vaccination is not a political issue… oh no!!…

Of course it is, reading this rant. Hahaha..
 
Looking further down the article you will see that our rolling death rate is twice that of France, Germany and Spain.

The only stat that matters is 150,000 dead on COVID Island.

Our government is useless. Why aren’t the Britons enraged by this?

Too busy back in the rat race to notice or care.
 
I feel I am suffering from after effects of covid vaccine. For my entire life I have never had BP issue and have been pretty healthy (touchwood).
for last 7 years of so I have not taken even a paracetamol tablet and then I take 2 hits of sinopharm in feb 2021 and itÂ’s ok. Then I am asked to take 2 shots of Pfizer in June 2021. During all those times, my BP has been checked and found no issue except when I went to take Pfizer second jab. After the Pfizer first jab, my BP starred shooting high and I should have not taken the second one.

But such was the hype and push from all quarters that I went and got the second shot. They do a customary check for BP before giving the jab and it was a high. Finally I got the job on third try.
Everyone said it is safe and if I donÂ’t take it I will be having a weaker immune system.
Now, I have high BP condition immediately after the Jab and have been diagnosed with having vertigo.

A bit about my time since the Covid-19 outbreak happened : I have been working since April2020 till date on site. I am a contractor. I worked from home for a grand total of 4 days in March 2020 when government called a curfew. My colleagues were in same position too and some of them got the virus and recovered after 10 days.
So all this talk about unvaccinated people dying was something happening with people having some kind of co-morbidity and not to people like me. This we all kept telling each other but we all rushed to take the vaccine soon as it was announced.
Why?

Rules were to do PCR test very 7 days if you donÂ’t take the vaccine or you cannot enter offices, public areas and for contractors like me this was getting impossible to work
Also as I said the hype and push was so high to listen to all the experts and we had so many of them saying blah blah blah but with a fine print.

So yeah everyone has a choice but this I know now and it is too late. This message is for people who are in favour of vaccine, please check the symptoms after the first jab and take the second one only if you are ok. If needed keep a 2 month gap, I didnÂ’t and kept only 3 weeks and didnÂ’t have time to think objectively. Maybe few more weeks would have given me enough time to meet specialist doctors and do all the checks and get an exemption.

And pls dont slur anti vaxxers as I agree with what some of them are saying. (not the ones who are spreading conspiracy theories about government injecting secret spies lol)

This is very sad to read. You didn't need the vaccine but took it under pressure, now your health isn't the same.

Hope you get back to before but I would seek advice from experts in vaccine side effects.
 
This is very sad to read. You didn't need the vaccine but took it under pressure, now your health isn't the same.

Hope you get back to before but I would seek advice from experts in vaccine side effects.

Have you considered getting an anti body test to see if you already caught it and are carrying anti bodies?
 
Someone who dies testing positive from covid is not necessarily suffering from it. I know this, I am a GP.

And the stand, by most in the scientific community who are of this opinion, is not that someone should or should not take the vaccine but that the choice should be available. Right now, many people who are healthy and do not need the vaccine are being brainwashed into taking it by peer pressure and media nonsense.

Natural immunity, age, lack of various health conditions are cited in countless peer reviewed papers as reasons not to take the vaccine. Not to mention myocarditis and various other side effects.

I wish there were more doctors like you. Thanks for telling the truth.
 
Have you considered getting an anti body test to see if you already caught it and are carrying anti bodies?

No perhaps I should but not sure of the benefit, as if I do show immunity it wont help in travel etc?
 
No perhaps I should but not sure of the benefit, as if I do show immunity it wont help in travel etc?

It won't help you in that way but it will back up your theory regarding natural immunity.
In fact surely there should be more anti body testing for those that are not vaccinated to determine how the natural immune system has dealt with the virus and how far we are with herd immunity.

A friend of mine who also suffers from an immune disorder (like myself) had a test last week and it showed his body still has sufficient anti bodies six months after taking the vaccine.
 
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^^^
So it got me thinking... perhaps there should be more large scale anti body testing
 
^^^
So it got me thinking... perhaps there should be more large scale anti body testing

I was sent an antibody test through the post a week after the pandemic was officially confirmed in the UK. I don't know anyone else who was sent this at the time, not sure why they choose. I wish I had taken the test now but through the letter in the bin.
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-federal-appeals-court-issues-stay-bidens-vaccine-rule-us-companies-2021-11-06/

A U.S. federal appeals court issued a stay Saturday freezing the Biden administration's efforts to require workers at U.S. companies with at least 100 employees be vaccinated against COVID-19 or be tested weekly, citing "grave statutory and constitutional" issues with the rule.

The ruling from the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit comes after numerous Republican-led states filed legal challenges against the new rule, which is set to take effect on Jan 4.

The White House declined to comment on the ruling, and referred questions to the Labor Department, where spokespeople did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The stay comes two days after the Biden administration unveiled the rule, which was immediately met with vows of legal action from Republican governors and others, who argued it overstepped the administration's legal authority.

The action on the private-sector vaccinations was taken under the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration's (OSHA) emergency authority over workplace safety, officials said. The rule applies to 84.2 million workers at 1.9 million private-sector employers, according to OSHA.

Saturday's court order came in response to a joint petition from several businesses, advocacy groups, and the states of Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and Utah. The rule is also facing separate legal challenges before other courts.

The two-page order directs the Biden administration to respond to the request for a permanent injunction against the rule by 5pm Monday.
 
UK to adapt fully-vaccinated definition to account for boosters - PM Johnson

LONDON, Nov 15 (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Boris Johnson on Monday said the definition of fully-vaccinated would have to be adjusted to account for third "booster" COVID-19 shots, although he did not give a time-frame for the move.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk...ition-account-boosters-pm-johnson-2021-11-15/

Get your boosters if you want to be fully vaccinated. You will be pumping these boosters for years to come, don't give up now.
 
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/care-worker-bursts-tears-after-22093786

Care workers and NHS workers have been caring for many months now without a vaccine. Now the fascist governments wants to force people to be jabbed in order to feed themselves and their families.

Easy to get away with it when you have a world full of scared sheep.

It is an authoritarian move and as a liberal I disagree with it. Other European governments have achieved higher vaccination rates than us, without resorting to such measures. Perhaps they have more trustworthy individuals at the head of government.

When I worked for the NHS, I was compelled to get the BCG jab. The was in a highly dangerous environment with possible daily exposure to tuberculosis so it made sense and was happy to take the jab.

Austria is now compelling all non-vaxxed people to stay at home, on penalty of a stiff fine. They have lower infection and death rates than us.
 
A two tier society is gradually and openly being created. Particularly in the West, but the trend will on this occasion follow globally.
 
It is an authoritarian move and as a liberal I disagree with it. Other European governments have achieved higher vaccination rates than us, without resorting to such measures. Perhaps they have more trustworthy individuals at the head of government.

When I worked for the NHS, I was compelled to get the BCG jab. The was in a highly dangerous environment with possible daily exposure to tuberculosis so it made sense and was happy to take the jab.

Austria is now compelling all non-vaxxed people to stay at home, on penalty of a stiff fine. They have lower infection and death rates than us.

When you worked for the NHS you know you need that jab to get the job. This is now being introduced to current workers. People will just leave , the NHS will suffer and as a result more will die due to a lack of care.

Austrian police were out today checking people in shops. Unvaccinated are being treated as criminals in some nations.

Remember you will not be fully vaccinated soon if you don't have the booster and boosters yearly. Natural immunity is far superior, so there is a clear agenda which was known from the beginning tbf.

The most dangerous Omega variant is yet to arrive.

We also know Fauci and his goons were funding gain of function. The next lab created virus could have a mortality rate of 50%, good luck all.
 
When you worked for the NHS you know you need that jab to get the job. This is now being introduced to current workers. People will just leave , the NHS will suffer and as a result more will die due to a lack of care.

Austrian police were out today checking people in shops. Unvaccinated are being treated as criminals in some nations.

Remember you will not be fully vaccinated soon if you don't have the booster and boosters yearly. Natural immunity is far superior, so there is a clear agenda which was known from the beginning tbf.

The most dangerous Omega variant is yet to arrive.

We also know Fauci and his goons were funding gain of function. The next lab created virus could have a mortality rate of 50%, good luck all.

The problem with what you call “natural immunity” is that 1.5 million Britons would have died and many more been crippled while the rest acquired it.

Otherwise, I concur about the authoritarianism. It’s akin to taking away our civil liberties to protect us from terrorism.
 
The problem with what you call “natural immunity” is that 1.5 million Britons would have died and many more been crippled while the rest acquired it.

Otherwise, I concur about the authoritarianism. It’s akin to taking away our civil liberties to protect us from terrorism.

The same people who are know proving to be like fascists are the ones who told us the death numbers aren't correct. Remember if you die within 30 days of testing positive, you go down as Covid even its its a heart attack etc.

We can move on from this.

How long do you think before UK follows the likes of Italy and Austria?
 
In light of the Austria policy, and the various vaccine passports and mandates coming in across Europe, there is some clear dip testing going on at the moment from the media entities that the government holds some genuine sway over. The Times, the Telegraph, the BBC, YouGov. We are being asked if we would accept a social credit system in our culture, wherein the unvaccinated in our society would be lower tiered — with “partially vaccinated” people receiving some allowances, and “fully vaccinated” people (the definition of whom is constantly shifting) getting the full benefits package. This is some seriously twisted dystopian horror stuff that is going on here, make no mistake about that.
 
The same people who are know proving to be like fascists are the ones who told us the death numbers aren't correct. Remember if you die within 30 days of testing positive, you go down as Covid even its its a heart attack etc.

We can move on from this.

How long do you think before UK follows the likes of Italy and Austria?

Seriously, that’s like saying that the flu won’t carry off an already sick person. Of course it will. And this beast is much more dangerous than flu.

COVID riddles your tissues. It doesn’t just attack the lungs. People getting out of hospital after COVID infection are dying a month later of heart failure, kidney failure, liver failure. A work colleague of mine has Long COVID. Been like that for six months. He can’t get enough oxygen in to be able to walk about. His Blood-Brain Barrier is inflamed causing constant headaches. He still gets brain fog so his career progression is limited. His mental health is shot too.

I don’t think UK Gov will follow Austria, as Johnson (for all his numerous faults) believes in as much personal freedom as possible. If the authoritarian Patel were in charge it would be a different matter.

We are more likely to be affected by overseas travel restrictions. I have my NHS app telling my COVID vaccination status, and I don’t mind that. The world’s rules have changed and I will adapt to them.
 
In light of the Austria policy, and the various vaccine passports and mandates coming in across Europe, there is some clear dip testing going on at the moment from the media entities that the government holds some genuine sway over. The Times, the Telegraph, the BBC, YouGov. We are being asked if we would accept a social credit system in our culture, wherein the unvaccinated in our society would be lower tiered — with “partially vaccinated” people receiving some allowances, and “fully vaccinated” people (the definition of whom is constantly shifting) getting the full benefits package. This is some seriously twisted dystopian horror stuff that is going on here, make no mistake about that.

This puts me in an ethical quandary. As a liberal I am for freedom from state coercion and control. As a HS professional I am for control of risk to people.

If your dystopian nightmare is to be avoided then antivaxxers must unite. The trouble is that they are not the best brains on campus. They are science-illiterate and prone to conspiracy thinking, and thereby can be conned and used by populists like Trump and Farage.
 
[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] I think the term antivaxxer is rapidly losing its past bite, relevance and meaning.

Antivaxxer used to mean someone who was clearly a bit of a paranoid lunatic, refused all beneficial established proven vaccines and went about protesting with placards & wearing printed t-shirts that would say things like the HPV jab causes STIs, birth defects and cervical cancer; the MMR jab causes autism in our kids and cot death, etc. (NB: isn't it interesting how these adult movements are often centred on the idea of children? — we have seen this again with the Covid vaccine.)

In short, these were laughable fringe people, often layabout couch potato North American parents with nothing better to do through the week, and with no grasp of science who believed in every urban myth going & could easily be ignored. Their unvaccinated kids would also often spread measles and mumps around in schools as miniature viral vectors & this would make their classmates very sick.

The term antivaxxer has since evolved though, with the advent of Covid and also of social media, because people now are often getting denounced as antivaxxers if they do not automatically and without question or any slight critique sign up to every possible notion of a Covid jab; and another Covid jab, a booster, another booster, and another booster down the road; as well as the vaccine status app, vaccine passports, vaccine mandates, etc.

The Facebook / Twitter / Instagram / TikTok “vaccine video” or “booster selfie” which is used to farm likes & shares and make people look super-caring has now become a thing. You can now even change your profile picture on Facebook to a special coloured border badge which confirms your vaccine status and your support for the NHS. In fact, to be unequivocally pro-vaccine now, I would argue that one must openly and publicly advocate for the factors that sit behind a tiered biosecure state. Otherwise, one risks not being viewed as ideologically pure enough in the supposed virtuous pursuit of eradicating Covid.

So, I prefer the term vaccine hesitancy.

My own personal example of CV19 vaccine status would be that I have had 2 Astra Zeneca jabs, and my anti-Covid antibodies are verifiably through the roof as demonstrated by an antibody test. And I think that for anyone under 50, without underlying health conditions, that this should really be enough. In every real and credible way, it is frankly more than enough.

But. Soon enough I will become eligible for a booster. I am the next age group down, and in the UK they have already widened the goalposts on boosters several times. So when clinically healthy over-30s become included in the booster range, then me, despite not wanting a booster, not wanting the side effects of the jab again, and knowing that I don’t need a booster, will have to get a booster to retain my current and hard earned “fully vaccinated” status. Otherwise I will then overnight morph into one who is “partially vaccinated”. In other words, a social pariah. And thus, I risk suddenly losing a certain amount of my legal and civil rights.

I also don’t believe in vaccine passports. To some, that makes me even worse still.

Now I wouldn’t consider myself to be antivax, or even vaccine hesitant. Myself and my wife have had 2 Covid jabs each, and our kids have had all of the infant NHS jabs bang on schedule. That should 100% be enough.

But millions of people in my position are being made to feel like they could be one of these evil antivax/hesitant things, or both, and some people are confidently now calling us both — because, the definition of “fully vaccinated” keeps being amended, so it excludes new groups of people on a regular basis.

This is why antivaxxer is now a problematic term.
 
[MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] it does open a rather ominous looking door. Did you watch Westworld? It posits a society where a character is unable to get any work other than manual, because the big tech firms have harvested enough data on him to flag him as a suicide risk, and no reputable form will employ him.

I can see a time where this comes to pass. “Vaccine hesitancy” will be perceived as risk-taker behaviour, locking people out of access to some parts of society / employment, pushing them into dangerous menial roles, while the oligarchs will be immune to this authoritarianism as they can afford digital cleansing of their records. Indeed, they will direct the authoritarianism and profit from it.

1984 won’t happen in Europe like it has in China, but a form of Brave New World will.
 
The Irish Times:

<b>Mandatory Covid-19 vaccination must be discussed, says von der Leyen.</b>

<I>Comments come after signs Germany to join Austria in moving towards obligatory jabs.</I>

Mandatory vaccination against Covid-19 is something that needs to be discussed, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen has said.

The Austrian government has said that vaccination against the disease will become mandatory by February and the incoming German chancellor Olaf Scholz has expressed support for the approach, according to German media reports.

Several European countries have introduced profession-based vaccination mandates, including Italy, France, and Greece, in a bid to increase the percentage of the population protected against Covid-19 and bring down deaths and hospitalisations from the disease.

Von der Leyen, who is a licensed physician and worked as a doctor before becoming a politician, told journalists that it was “understandable” that this policy choice is discussed.

“If you’re asking what my personal position is, two or three years ago I’d never have thought to witness what we see right now, that we have this horrible pandemic, we have vaccines, the life saving vaccines, but they are not being used adequately everywhere,” she said.

“I think it is understandable and appropriate to lead this discussion now, how we can encourage and potentially think about mandatory vaccination within the EU,” she added.

This needs discussion. This needs a common approach but it is a discussion that I think has to be led.”

The overall EU vaccination rate among its whole population is 66.2 per cent, according to the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, and hospitals in several countries are struggling to cope with the number of people falling seriously ill and dying with the disease.

Omicron concerns
Regarding the new Omicron variant, von der Leyen said that scientists were studying it to understand whether changes to its spike protein will mean it is better at evading the antibodies produced by vaccines.

“We know enough to be concerned,” she said. “What science tells us already is that full vaccination and boosters provide the strongest protection against Covid that is available now.”

The vaccine company BioNTech, which produces the most commonly-used vaccine in Ireland alongside pharmaceutical giant Pfizer, has said that it will take about two weeks to establish the effectiveness of vaccines against the variant.

If its vaccine needs to be updated, it could be developed in time for the first batches to arrive in about 100 days, the company estimated.

Some 360 million doses of vaccines are due to be delivered to the EU by the end of the first quarter of 2022 under current contracts with Pfizer and Moderna, von der Leyen said, “sufficient for all fully-vaccinated Europeans to get a boost.”

Covid-19 vaccines for children produced by Pfizer, which were approved for ages 5 to 11 by the European Medicines Agency last month, will arrive sooner than expected following discussions with the company, she added.

“Children’s vaccines will be available as of December 13th,” she told journalists, ahead of the previously expected arrival time of towards the end of the month.
 
Seriously, that’s like saying that the flu won’t carry off an already sick person. Of course it will. And this beast is much more dangerous than flu.

COVID riddles your tissues. It doesn’t just attack the lungs. People getting out of hospital after COVID infection are dying a month later of heart failure, kidney failure, liver failure. A work colleague of mine has Long COVID. Been like that for six months. He can’t get enough oxygen in to be able to walk about. His Blood-Brain Barrier is inflamed causing constant headaches. He still gets brain fog so his career progression is limited. His mental health is shot too.

I don’t think UK Gov will follow Austria, as Johnson (for all his numerous faults) believes in as much personal freedom as possible. If the authoritarian Patel were in charge it would be a different matter.

We are more likely to be affected by overseas travel restrictions. I have my NHS app telling my COVID vaccination status, and I don’t mind that. The world’s rules have changed and I will adapt to them.

Was you friend double vaccinated?

There is no conclusive evidence Covid cause heart failure. They should just add every symptom possible to mankind to Covid symptoms. Heart failure is increasing, numerous athletes are falling to this. They were all vaccinated.

Since you have a lot of information, please tell me the numbers of those infected while being vaccinated? Deaths too.

You are welcome to adapt but freedom is a key human right. UK will follow eventually. Atm they are trying to scare people with this new variant which isn't serious.

Europe has a long standing issue with a fascist mindset. Thankfully we have a lot of young people who don't hold on to the we are Great nation, more civilised etc. They are smart enough to know you should be careful taking orders or listening to those who help the rich, their friends and vote to bomb innocent women and children.

Ive not had any symptoms to this day, not vaccinated and never will be. Yet many I know who are have fallen sick.
 
Ready to take the booster jab very soon.

Still have friends who won't get vaccinated. Their choice, but surely after what's going on all over the world, you'd want to get vaccinated.
 
Ready to take the booster jab very soon.

Still have friends who won't get vaccinated. Their choice, but surely after what's going on all over the world, you'd want to get vaccinated.


Lets look at America; the highest vaccinated states are the ones seeing the highest cases now

Most of Europe has far higher vaccination rates than 3rd world places; yet cases in Europe are many times more, due to seasonality

How do you explain these trends?

If after a year of vaccinations, you saw countries like Pakistan with sky high cases (due to low vaccines) and Europe with 70% vax rates seeing low cases, one could come to a conclusion that vaccines help in reducing cases

But all evidence is to the contrary.
 
My father is 65+, has coronary artery disease and has had two stents placed inside his coronary vessels, had one replaced after it got occluded, is a chronic diabetic and hypertensive which resulted in CKD and he's undergoing haemodialysis for 3+ years and he contracted the covid a few months back. I feared the worst because of all his pre existing diseases but he miraculously survived without much complications. He had got the covishield first dose before he contracted the virus.

My father's elder brother was a chronic smoker but was otherwise largely healthy. He unfortunately didn't survive the covid infection. He was unvaccinated because vaccines weren't discovered then during the first wave. Of course, everyone is free to have their own views and preferences reg the vaccine but I firmly believe it was the vaccine which saved my father and I would anyday trust the medical science.
 
My father is 65+, has coronary artery disease and has had two stents placed inside his coronary vessels, had one replaced after it got occluded, is a chronic diabetic and hypertensive which resulted in CKD and he's undergoing haemodialysis for 3+ years and he contracted the covid a few months back. I feared the worst because of all his pre existing diseases but he miraculously survived without much complications. He had got the covishield first dose before he contracted the virus.

My father's elder brother was a chronic smoker but was otherwise largely healthy. He unfortunately didn't survive the covid infection. He was unvaccinated because vaccines weren't discovered then during the first wave. Of course, everyone is free to have their own views and preferences reg the vaccine but I firmly believe it was the vaccine which saved my father and I would anyday trust the medical science.

Glad for your father, wish him all the best

In my close friend's family, the 99 year old unvaccinated grandmother survived Covid, while a healthy man in his 40s passed away even after being fully vaccinated. As such his parents didnt get vaccinated as they saw first hand how arbitrary Covid can be
 
Glad for your father, wish him all the best

In my close friend's family, the 99 year old unvaccinated grandmother survived Covid, while a healthy man in his 40s passed away even after being fully vaccinated. As such his parents didnt get vaccinated as they saw first hand how arbitrary Covid can be

I'm sure there must be plenty of examples of healthy and fully jabbed individuals succumbing to covid. There is no certainty that you will survive even after being jabbed or you'll succumb just because you aren't.

It's a matter of percentages though and I think the percentage of jabbed individuals succumbing is much lesser than the unvaccinated. I would rather be on the safer side, of course, others may have their own preferences.
 
Lets look at America; the highest vaccinated states are the ones seeing the highest cases now

Most of Europe has far higher vaccination rates than 3rd world places; yet cases in Europe are many times more, due to seasonality

How do you explain these trends?

If after a year of vaccinations, you saw countries like Pakistan with sky high cases (due to low vaccines) and Europe with 70% vax rates seeing low cases, one could come to a conclusion that vaccines help in reducing cases

But all evidence is to the contrary.

I would say that Europe and USA are better at detecting COVID infections that developing world nations. Incidence looks low there because they are not doing the testing.

Have my booster jab in a few weeks. Having to wait longer than expected. The roll-out is slow in some parts of the UK.
 
Have my booster jab in a few weeks. Having to wait longer than expected. The roll-out is slow in some parts of the UK.

Fastest rollout in the world,

World beating roll out.

etc. :D
 
BBC: Germany bans unvaccinated people from shops and bars.

Germany has announced sweeping new restrictions for people who have not been vaccinated against Covid.

Chancellor Angela Merkel says unvaccinated people will be barred from many public places, including non-essential shops and events, unless they have recently recovered from Covid.

"Culture and leisure nationwide will be open only to those who have been vaccinated or recovered," Merkel says.

"We have understood that the situation is very serious and that we want to take further measures in addition to those already taken," she adds.

Merkel also says a nationwide vaccination mandate could be imposed from February 2022, after it's been debated in parliament.
 
BBC: Germany bans unvaccinated people from shops and bars.

Germany has announced sweeping new restrictions for people who have not been vaccinated against Covid.

Chancellor Angela Merkel says unvaccinated people will be barred from many public places, including non-essential shops and events, unless they have recently recovered from Covid.

"Culture and leisure nationwide will be open only to those who have been vaccinated or recovered," Merkel says.

"We have understood that the situation is very serious and that we want to take further measures in addition to those already taken," she adds.

Merkel also says a nationwide vaccination mandate could be imposed from February 2022, after it's been debated in parliament.

Merkel's parting gift?
 
I would say that Europe and USA are better at detecting COVID infections that developing world nations. Incidence looks low there because they are not doing the testing.

Have my booster jab in a few weeks. Having to wait longer than expected. The roll-out is slow in some parts of the UK.

You should travelling around the world instead of guessing from your sofa.

Lets take Pakistan, the testing there is actually on par or better than the UK in many ways. Vast majority in Pakistan are not vaccinated. It has 3x the population but lesser % testing positive.

Western governments & some in Europe have a long history of facist mentality. The governments are using this to further such mentality.

We know now these vaccines have little protection to a virus which mutates.

People who are quickly rushing to get jabbed over again, are being taken for a ride imo.

P.s Please respond to my earlier post.
 
I have been double jabbed

Second dose left me really ill and I then tested positive for covid a day later , suffered for 2 weeks and my sense of smell is still haywire and nor fully recovered.

No way I'm getting a booster after that experience
 
I have been double jabbed

Second dose left me really ill and I then tested positive for covid a day later , suffered for 2 weeks and my sense of smell is still haywire and nor fully recovered.

No way I'm getting a booster after that experience

Pro vaxxers will claim that you would have died with covid if you didnt take the vaccine. But overwhelming cases of Covid in healthy younger people are not fatal, with or without the vaccine
 
We know now these vaccines have little protection to a virus which mutates.

People who are quickly rushing to get jabbed over again, are being taken for a ride imo.

P.s Please respond to my earlier post.

On one hand Moderna CEO says the current vaccines wont work for the new strains

On other hand Pfizer says it will

And then govts are telling people to take existing boosters to protect against the new strain. And then once people take the boosters, they will be told "oops, you need a new booster for omicron"
 
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