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Will you take the vaccine for Covid-19?

Will you take the vaccine for Covid-19?


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A rushed vaccine which is authorised use in an emergency doesnt have to be the only way. There are many ways to treat illnesses esp vruses. A good start would be for the governments to ensure peoples immune systems are stronger but they have done the opposite, causing stress with lockdowns, scaremongering etc to weaken peoples immune system.

The stress, anxiety, depression, negative mental health, loneliness and hopelessness is a massive thing.

Also the fact that Britons have put on an average of two stone each during lockdowns due to physical inactivity and the wide promotion of junk food, and a lot more people will now be classed as medically overweight or obese. Although I know many clinically healthy and fit people with high BMI, it is undoubtedly true that viruses like covid are statistically more likely to kill people when they are carrying too much body fat.
 
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A rushed vaccine which is authorised use in an emergency doesnt have to be the only way. There are many ways to treat illnesses esp vruses. A good start would be for the governments to ensure peoples immune systems are stronger but they have done the opposite, causing stress with lockdowns, scaremongering etc to weaken peoples immune system.

The only other way to treat a virus is with antiviral drugs and AFAIK there is nothing of that description that can affect COVID at present.

What your solution means in practical terms is let the virus rip through us and kill 1.5 million Britons instead of just 150,000 so far. Yes we would eventually gain herd immunity as we did from the Black Death and Spanish Flu, but there would be mass graves, food shortages, and likely collapse of law and order in some places.
 
The stress, anxiety, depression, negative mental health, loneliness and hopelessness is a massive thing.

Agreed, but so would be losing many family members and friends had we not locked down and let the virus rip.
 
The vaccine overall is a win for society and humanity.

I completely acknowledge that it has been emergency authorised and there are some things that we don’t yet entirely understand about its pharmacological mechanisms, and there are some slight risks: so sadly yes on very rare occasions there will be (and have been) unexpected adverse effects experienced by some people that result in injury, maiming, or death. There are also some as yet unresolved question marks over the vaccine’s effects on pregnant women and their unborn children. Medicine is frankly a lot of trial & error and the Covid jabs are not the first vaccinations in history to cause infrequent bad reactions early in their life cycle whilst their chemistry is being honed.

But just look at the wonderful benefits that we are getting from these vaccines. There are anything from 25,000 to 40,000 people testing positive daily for Covid in the UK at the moment — this is just the people who are taking tests as well, so the number could be far higher — and the overall count is about to increase again, for a few weeks at least, with schools going back today & testing increasing. Now with these case numbers, well over 1,000 and sometimes nearly 2,000 people per day were dying from/with Covid in April last year and then over last winter as well. Now it’s an average of 120 per day, with an entirely manageable quantity of people in hospital, and now with much higher discharge rates as well.

Covid is no longer the highest cause of death anymore in the UK. Covid is no longer a crushing death sentence from respiratory failure for vulnerable and/or old people. This is because of the vaccines reducing people’s susceptibility and minimising their symptoms. Most cases, then, are now just statistics. The majority of vaccinated people test positive and soon make a full recovery. This was not what was happening before. Death rates and the rate of long Covid were a lot worse.

This is not black and white. Nothing is. It isn’t a case of either vaccines have to be perfect or we should have zero vaccines. It is a matter of weighing up the risks versus the benefits of offering out this new vaccine on a voluntary basis. No medical treatment is 100% risk-free; never has been, never has been claimed to be so. And, overall, taking everything into account, this vaccine too is a positive package to be rolling out. It does far more good than it does bad.

The vaccine is strongly evidenced as an effective defence against Covid — much, much, much more so than lockdowns, social distancing, and mask use are by the way!!!

Put simply, the broad success of the UK’s vaccination program means that we can live our normal lives again, and meanwhile much of the rest of the world still hopelessly rots in miserable and indefinite lockdowns with no clear long term strategy and no genuine clue of how to turn the tide against the perils of Covid.
 
Agreed, but so would be losing many family members and friends had we not locked down and let the virus rip.

There are extremely variable proofs as to whether lockdowns actually result in a positive net outcome for society at large or not. Anyway this is not a lockdown thread, that can be a separate discussion.
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-deliver-six-step-plan-covid-19-pandemic-2021-09-09/

President Joe Biden took aim on Thursday at vaccine resistance in America, announcing policies requiring most federal employees to get COVID-19 vaccinations and pushing large employers to have their workers inoculated or tested weekly.

The new measures, which Biden laid out in remarks from the White House, would apply to about two-thirds of all U.S. employees, those who work for businesses with more than 100 workers.

"We've been patient," Biden told the tens of millions of Americans who have declined to get coronavirus shots. "But our patience is wearing thin, and your refusal has cost all of us."

Taken together, the policies and speech represented Biden's most aggressive steps yet to prod Americans resistant to getting shots as the fast-spreading Delta variant sparks a new wave of sickness and death.

The surge has posed increased risk not just to the country but to a president who ran on promises to get control of the pandemic. Biden's approval ratings have sagged since he said in July the United States was "closer than ever to declaring our independence from a deadly virus."

Biden's latest moves are expected to be the subject of political and legal challenges.

Despite a full-throttled campaign by the Biden administration urging Americans to get the free and widely available vaccines, just over 62% of eligible Americans are fully vaccinated, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

On Thursday, Biden warned that "we're in a tough stretch and it could last for a while."

Infectious disease and health policy experts said the mandates are unlikely to significantly change infection rates quickly.

Still, they would help against potential future waves of the virus, reducing deaths and hospitalizations and alleviating the stress on the healthcare system, said Georgetown University's Dr. Jesse Goodman, a former chief scientist at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

"It's absolutely the right thing to do," he said. "Ideally everyone would have been vaccinated already."

In a televised speech running a bit under half an hour, the Democratic president accused "a distinct minority of elected officials" who have resisted mask and vaccine mandates on freedom-of-choice and economic grounds as "making people sick."

The White House COVID-19 recovery plan was based on the vast majority of eligible Americans being vaccinated this year. But the public health issue has become politicized, with a vocal minority refusing the shots and mask mandates.

Florida Republican Governor Ron DeSantis issued an executive order in July blocking mask mandates in schools.

Administration medical officials have said over 97% of people hospitalized with COVID-19 are not vaccinated, and those people account for an even higher share of deaths.

Cathy McMorris Rodgers, the senior Republican on the House of Representatives committee that oversees health policy, said Biden "is using fear, control, and mandates."

The Republican National Committee said it intends to sue the Biden administration over the vaccine mandate.

Under Biden's plan, the administration will also require vaccinations for more than 17 million healthcare workers at hospitals and other institutions that participate in Medicare and Medicaid social programs for poor, disabled and older Americans.

Biden previously required that federal employees be vaccinated or get tested. Federal workers now have 75 days to get vaccinated, or face termination unless they fall into limited exemption categories.

Federal workers unions suggested on Thursday they would accept the vaccine mandate.

The U.S. Labor Department's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) plans to take enforcement actions against private companies that do not comply with the vaccine mandate, with substantial fines of nearly $14,000 per violation.

The administration is also calling on entertainment venues to require tests or shots and for states to adopt mandates for school employees. It is also multiplying the fines charged to people who fail to wear masks on airplanes, trains and buses.

It plans as well to ramp up testing capacity for the virus.

Biden will use authority under the Defense Production Act to spur industry to accelerate production of the tests, and big retailers including Walmart Inc, Amazon.com Inc and Kroger Co are expected to sell the tests at cost for the next three months to make them more affordable.

Critics have said the Biden administration has not done enough on testing during its seven months in office. Still, the new demand for tests could tax already strained suppliers.

Administration officials believe the full recovery of the U.S economy depends on blunting the spread of the virus, the key focus of the president since entering office in January.

The disease has killed more than 654,000 people in the United States, and deaths and hospitalizations have been rising sharply as the easily transmissible Delta variant of the virus spreads.

The spread of the Delta variant has raised concerns as children head back to school, while also rattling investors, upending company return-to-office plans and tamping down hiring.

The White House also plans to offer booster shots providing additional protection to those who are fully vaccinated. But supplies are limited and the World Health Organization has begged rich countries to pause booster programs until more people worldwide are inoculated.

But with Delta causing more symptomatic breakthrough infections among fully inoculated individuals, most vaccinated Americans want a booster, a recent Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll found. Boosters could begin the week of Sept. 20.

"Get vaccinated," Biden urged in closing his speech.
 
Hopefully the booster (third jab) will be in my arm by Christmas.
 
In Germany, the doctor says two doses are more than enough. Classes are going to be resumed on campus but vaccination proof is mandatory before students are allowed to enter the class. Seriously, no major side effects. A little pain around the injection site for three days but it finally wore off.
 
https://www.healthline.com/health-n...id-19-vaccines-work-against-the-delta-variant

You may get covid even if you are vaccinated but there is a good chance it won’t hurt you as bad as it would if you are not vaccinated. Same concept as your standard flu shot. You may catch the big or you may not, but if you do, it won’t hurt you severely.

Thanks, I am double jabbed but had thought about it as there are varying accounts of effectiveness against the covid variants.
 
Thanks, I am double jabbed but had thought about it as there are varying accounts of effectiveness against the covid variants.

Well to be honest the data is not very conclusive. As you can see the efficacy rate ranges from 40 ish percent to 80 ish for Pfizer, let’s say.
But the key point to consider is, the efficacy rate is still “zero” if you are not vaccinated at all. So what would you rather have? Not speaking to you in particular but it’s a general statement for those who are anti vaxxers.

I think you can still be comparatively at ease if you are jabbed. And hopefully, when the booster is widely available, it will only help more
 
Well to be honest the data is not very conclusive. As you can see the efficacy rate ranges from 40 ish percent to 80 ish for Pfizer, let’s say.
But the key point to consider is, the efficacy rate is still “zero” if you are not vaccinated at all. So what would you rather have? Not speaking to you in particular but it’s a general statement for those who are anti vaxxers.

I think you can still be comparatively at ease if you are jabbed. And hopefully, when the booster is widely available, it will only help more

I was hesitant about it at first but I’ve felt different pre and post jab, and given some of the issues I had I can put it down now to long covid and it took me a while to figure that out.

Anyhow are you aware of what the covid symptoms are for those who are double jabbed ? I had some dreadful flu like symptoms but fine now, if it was a normal flu I hope I’ve developed dome further immunity as I may not potentially get the flu jab, not sure if others will be getting it in this thread among those who have taken the vaccine.

That is definitely a key point regarding the efficacy, I’ve also read if you have had covid + double jab some of those numbers you posted improve
 
I was hesitant about it at first but I’ve felt different pre and post jab, and given some of the issues I had I can put it down now to long covid and it took me a while to figure that out.

Anyhow are you aware of what the covid symptoms are for those who are double jabbed ? I had some dreadful flu like symptoms but fine now, if it was a normal flu I hope I’ve developed dome further immunity as I may not potentially get the flu jab, not sure if others will be getting it in this thread among those who have taken the vaccine.

That is definitely a key point regarding the efficacy, I’ve also read if you have had covid + double jab some of those numbers you posted improve

Same symptoms, just with varying degrees of mildness.
 
Why do you need a third jab?

To boost my immune response to Delta further, making it less likely I will get seriously ill, and reducing my infectivity window, thereby protecting people around me.
 
Have taken sinopharm 2 doses in Feb 2021 and have taken Pfizer 1st dose 3 weeks back. Pfizer secon dose is due tomorrow.

Not sure about what these vaccines do but do I have a choice?
 
Have taken sinopharm 2 doses in Feb 2021 and have taken Pfizer 1st dose 3 weeks back. Pfizer secon dose is due tomorrow.

Not sure about what these vaccines do but do I have a choice?

You can look up what they do all over the internet. There are plenty of independent peer reviewed papers out there.

Were you really advised two doses for Pfizer? I thought the policy was a single booster shot, even for those who had Sinopharm/Sinovac.
 
To boost my immune response to Delta further, making it less likely I will get seriously ill, and reducing my infectivity window, thereby protecting people around me.

So this booster shot is 100% effective against Delta?

When this the 4th shot due? Israel already making plans.

More variants will arise, booster shots every years seem the case now.
 
So this booster shot is 100% effective against Delta?

When this the 4th shot due? Israel already making plans.

More variants will arise, booster shots every years seem the case now.

Yeah it’s true and that’s the new reality. It’s like the flu shot, you have to get one every year if you want to protect yourself. Not any different from it. Except this disease is much worse than the regular flu. If you don’t get it, and you catch the bug, you will get really sick. So be smart and get vaccinated.
 
Yeah it’s true and that’s the new reality. It’s like the flu shot, you have to get one every year if you want to protect yourself. Not any different from it. Except this disease is much worse than the regular flu. If you don’t get it, and you catch the bug, you will get really sick. So be smart and get vaccinated.

I have 2 friends fully vaccinated (1 Moderna, other Pfizer) that got COVID (breakthrough cases). However it was mild. They had slight fever and chills for a day and loss of smell/taste for 10 days. Biggest issue was isolating for 7 days. The vaccine worked and they didn't need to be admitted at the hospital. 95% of hospitalizations in FL, AL, MS, TX are amongst the unvaccinated lot. Unfortunately we still have a big chunk of population that doesn't want to get vaccinated that is prolonging this virus unnecessarily.
 
I have 2 friends fully vaccinated (1 Moderna, other Pfizer) that got COVID (breakthrough cases). However it was mild. They had slight fever and chills for a day and loss of smell/taste for 10 days. Biggest issue was isolating for 7 days. The vaccine worked and they didn't need to be admitted at the hospital. 95% of hospitalizations in FL, AL, MS, TX are amongst the unvaccinated lot. Unfortunately we still have a big chunk of population that doesn't want to get vaccinated that is prolonging this virus unnecessarily.

Yes, it is a pretty ridiculous situation. We have doubters, to anti vaxxers to conspiracy theorists who just wanna blame on covid on their choice of evil outfit/person/country in the world.

It’s pretty sad.
 
I have 2 friends fully vaccinated (1 Moderna, other Pfizer) that got COVID (breakthrough cases). However it was mild. They had slight fever and chills for a day and loss of smell/taste for 10 days. Biggest issue was isolating for 7 days. The vaccine worked and they didn't need to be admitted at the hospital. 95% of hospitalizations in FL, AL, MS, TX are amongst the unvaccinated lot. Unfortunately we still have a big chunk of population that doesn't want to get vaccinated that is prolonging this virus unnecessarily.

Yes, it is a pretty ridiculous situation. We have doubters, to anti vaxxers to conspiracy theorists who just wanna blame on covid on their choice of evil outfit/person/country in the world.

It’s pretty sad.

what are your thoughts on the lab leak/gain-of-function research debacle? You can blame anti vaxxers for prolonging the pandemic but the people who started it bear the most responsibility. Funny how self-declared heroes last year like Cuomo & Fauci have fallen from grace.

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/09/covid-origins-gain-of-function-research/
 
I have 2 friends fully vaccinated (1 Moderna, other Pfizer) that got COVID (breakthrough cases). However it was mild. They had slight fever and chills for a day and loss of smell/taste for 10 days. Biggest issue was isolating for 7 days. The vaccine worked and they didn't need to be admitted at the hospital. 95% of hospitalizations in FL, AL, MS, TX are amongst the unvaccinated lot. Unfortunately we still have a big chunk of population that doesn't want to get vaccinated that is prolonging this virus unnecessarily.


Two work colleagues are doubled jabbed with AZ and still got Delta. They had heavy cold type symptoms and both felt exhausted for four days. But neither had to go to hospital.
 
So this booster shot is 100% effective against Delta?

When this the 4th shot due? Israel already making plans.

More variants will arise, booster shots every years seem the case now.

I wouldn’t say any vaccine is 100% effective in terms of survival rate. It just means vaccinated people will throw off the disease faster.

In times, vulnerable and older people will get new boosters every winter against Epsilon, Zeta, Eta etc. and we will live with this thing like we do the flu, which also mutates every couple of years.
 
what are your thoughts on the lab leak/gain-of-function research debacle? You can blame anti vaxxers for prolonging the pandemic but the people who started it bear the most responsibility. Funny how self-declared heroes last year like Cuomo & Fauci have fallen from grace.

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/09/covid-origins-gain-of-function-research/

The link you shared does not provide any evidence that the gain of function research causes covid 19. In fact the website clearly states it didn’t. It also doesn’t claim the pandemic is a result of a lab leaked virus. Also it doesn’t claim that Fauci knew about the gain of function research.

By the way none of that is related to the topic of discussion. I would actually be more desperate for a vaccine if I knew for a fact the disease is man made.
 
I see Scotland and Wales are limiting access to persons not double-jabbed, and care homes in the UK require staff to be vaccinated as a condition of employment.

Now as you know on PP I am pro-vaxx to the max, but also a liberal and therefore pro-civil liberty. Check out Articles 6 and 11 of UNESCO Universal Declaration of Bioethics and Human Rights…

http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=31058&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html
 
I see Scotland and Wales are limiting access to persons not double-jabbed, and care homes in the UK require staff to be vaccinated as a condition of employment.

Now as you know on PP I am pro-vaxx to the max, but also a liberal and therefore pro-civil liberty. Check out Articles 6 and 11 of UNESCO Universal Declaration of Bioethics and Human Rights…

http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=31058&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html

It’s complicated ask though as the shoe doesn’t fit for everyone, for example women who get the 1st jab and then are pregnant / don’t take the 2nd one, now while the guidance may have changed on what you should do, no consensus has been reached. Or those who got infected once and then had a jab / some noticeable side effects and can’t have the second etc
 
I wouldn’t say any vaccine is 100% effective in terms of survival rate. It just means vaccinated people will throw off the disease faster.

In times, vulnerable and older people will get new boosters every winter against Epsilon, Zeta, Eta etc. and we will live with this thing like we do the flu, which also mutates every couple of years.

So...

No matter how many boosters, shots you take, you can still pass on the virus and also become sick. But you MAY or may not become serious.

A fit, healthy person with a strong immune system who is not vaccinated is better off than a weak , unfit , overweight, unhealthy person who has 4/5 jabs.
 
So...

No matter how many boosters, shots you take, you can still pass on the virus and also become sick. But you MAY or may not become serious.

A fit, healthy person with a strong immune system who is not vaccinated is better off than a weak , unfit , overweight, unhealthy person who has 4/5 jabs.

NO.

You are less likely to catch it, as in your body will fight it off completely. Which in turn means you are less likely to end up spreading it further. But if you do get sick, it’s likely going to protect you and you will experience milder symptoms.

The need of the hour is to stop the spread, and you can only do so if you are vaccinated. Also, how do you know you are fit and healthy? Do you get your physicals every year? Even so, there are lots of times underlying conditions are easily missed. There are no guarantees.
 
NO.

You are less likely to catch it, as in your body will fight it off completely. Which in turn means you are less likely to end up spreading it further. But if you do get sick, it’s likely going to protect you and you will experience milder symptoms.

The need of the hour is to stop the spread, and you can only do so if you are vaccinated. Also, how do you know you are fit and healthy? Do you get your physicals every year? Even so, there are lots of times underlying conditions are easily missed. There are no guarantees.

Its all relative to ones health. The rate of death is still 1-2% 98% of the planet are not health freaks, which suggests its not as serious as made out.

You also made a claim, its more important to take the vaccine if the virus came from a lab? This makes no sense because the people, Fauci who is promoting the vaccine is the man who funded this lab. He has also proven to lie many times. I wouldnt trust this guy with a spoon.

No offence bro, I know you mean well but Id rather take advise from the worlds greatest viorologist, rather than someone I dont know on the internet.
 
Its all relative to ones health. The rate of death is still 1-2% 98% of the planet are not health freaks, which suggests its not as serious as made out.

You also made a claim, its more important to take the vaccine if the virus came from a lab? This makes no sense because the people, Fauci who is promoting the vaccine is the man who funded this lab. He has also proven to lie many times. I wouldnt trust this guy with a spoon.

No offence bro, I know you mean well but Id rather take advise from the worlds greatest viorologist, rather than someone I dont know on the internet.

Who is the worlds greatest virologist? I am sorry I am lost, care to shed more light on who that person is and what he is claiming?

By the way the entire scandal of gain of function research by Fauci is all just that .. a scandal. All major health organizations, pharma companies and biotechnology research institutions conduct gain of function research. Because that’s how you stay ahead of diseases like that and you can work on finding cures and vaccines for them. The funding in question here came after the whole SARS / MERS breakout. First of all why would Fauci alone decide to do this? Is he making money out of it?
Second, Fauci didn’t develop the vaccine. A dozen or so other organizations around the world have. Some are even Pakistanis and Chinese. How is Fauci benefitting from any of it? Your whole premise and logic is flawed there. Anybody familiar with the scientific method and research process knows that sometimes in order to improve the human condition, you have to simulate the worst scenarios so you can effectively encounter them.

Don’t fall into the trap of the right wing media nuts.

Take the vaccine if not for you, for others and just so we can all get hers immunity and the world can go back to normal. At this point, it’s not just about you. It was never about the individual. This pandemic has turned the whole world on its head and unless vaccination rates get to high levels, we cannot expect the infections and various other dangerous variants from emerging. That’s the truth!
 
Who is the worlds greatest virologist? I am sorry I am lost, care to shed more light on who that person is and what he is claiming?

By the way the entire scandal of gain of function research by Fauci is all just that .. a scandal. All major health organizations, pharma companies and biotechnology research institutions conduct gain of function research. Because that’s how you stay ahead of diseases like that and you can work on finding cures and vaccines for them. The funding in question here came after the whole SARS / MERS breakout. First of all why would Fauci alone decide to do this? Is he making money out of it?
Second, Fauci didn’t develop the vaccine. A dozen or so other organizations around the world have. Some are even Pakistanis and Chinese. How is Fauci benefitting from any of it? Your whole premise and logic is flawed there. Anybody familiar with the scientific method and research process knows that sometimes in order to improve the human condition, you have to simulate the worst scenarios so you can effectively encounter them.

Don’t fall into the trap of the right wing media nuts.

Take the vaccine if not for you, for others and just so we can all get hers immunity and the world can go back to normal. At this point, it’s not just about you. It was never about the individual. This pandemic has turned the whole world on its head and unless vaccination rates get to high levels, we cannot expect the infections and various other dangerous variants from emerging. That’s the truth!

With repsect, you need stop being arrogant, thinking you know it all based on CNN. Its not me but you who is watching left wing news channels and agreeing.

Luc Montagnier - You can search his views for more detail. In short he says vaccines will cause more variants. He has also mapped out the virus, confirming it came from a lab. You can listen to Fauci the clown, Ill listen to a real expert.

Protect others? Even on CNN they must have told you, vaccinated people can still contract the virus and still pass it on.
 
With repsect, you need stop being arrogant, thinking you know it all based on CNN. Its not me but you who is watching left wing news channels and agreeing.

Luc Montagnier - You can search his views for more detail. In short he says vaccines will cause more variants. He has also mapped out the virus, confirming it came from a lab. You can listen to Fauci the clown, Ill listen to a real expert.

Protect others? Even on CNN they must have told you, vaccinated people can still contract the virus and still pass it on.

Oh bhai, hosla Rambo, excited na ho. It’s not just CNN, it’s pretty much everyone saying the same thing except the RW nuts you are parroting. Nothing personal here. Look at neutral and independent sites and majority of the experts. They will all tell you to 1) Vaccinate and 2) There is not enough data to suggest the virus is man made 3) if it is man made, Fauci or whoever didn’t make it with plans to start the pandemic. It was probably a lab accidental leak.

So then: with those three in mind.
Will you avoid vaccination because it does t protect you or because you think the vaccine itself is a conspiracy?
Do you think the pandemic will eventually die of its own if you don’t vaccinate or do you think it will get worst if majority of the people get the vaccine


Here is a fact checker for you about the gain of function research:
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/05/the-wuhan-lab-and-the-gain-of-function-disagreement/
 
I also find it ridiculous that you are giving a lot of stock to one expert out of thousands who seem to disagree with him. He is 89 years old and got his Nobel prize back in 86. I wish my expertise would have such longevity in science where things change rapidly and everyday new evidence and tech comes out.

What if I suggest you choose to believe him only because he seems to be saying what you already want to believe. It’s not because of any scientific or logical reasoning that you are convinced of what he is saying. It’s our inherent bias towards the mainstream thought process. I understand you want to be a non confirming free thinking individual but in this case, the logic and reasoning doesn’t support any of your beliefs.
 
At this point if you are not taking teh vaccine you are just helping Darwin and Humanity really . It's one way to get rid of stupid I guess. I just feel bad for all the collateral damage these stupid deniers are causing my spreading it. These are the same folks who don't take the vaccine because they don't know " what's in it " but the run to the ER and beg for any experimental treatment that could save their lives.
 
I also find it ridiculous that you are giving a lot of stock to one expert out of thousands who seem to disagree with him. He is 89 years old and got his Nobel prize back in 86. I wish my expertise would have such longevity in science where things change rapidly and everyday new evidence and tech comes out.

What if I suggest you choose to believe him only because he seems to be saying what you already want to believe. It’s not because of any scientific or logical reasoning that you are convinced of what he is saying. It’s our inherent bias towards the mainstream thought process. I understand you want to be a non confirming free thinking individual but in this case, the logic and reasoning doesn’t support any of your beliefs.

Not at all. You havent even read his views but are already dismissing him. Age is not relevant, he is not Sleepy Joe Biden who cant remember the name of a PM. This man has mapped the virus, he did this very very early on when I was open to all views. He is saying vaccines created variants, this is no strange view , plenty of other experts are saying the same.

You take your sources and do whats right for you. Dont come on here preaching , when I have no clue as to who you are. I know who this chap is, he has been correct thus far so I will listen to his expert views.
 
At this point if you are not taking teh vaccine you are just helping Darwin and Humanity really . It's one way to get rid of stupid I guess. I just feel bad for all the collateral damage these stupid deniers are causing my spreading it. These are the same folks who don't take the vaccine because they don't know " what's in it " but the run to the ER and beg for any experimental treatment that could save their lives.

:)

Very true! They want HCQ or Ivermectin or monoclonal antibodies and such cutting edge medication if they get sick, but they are not ok with the vaccine to avoid it in the first place. How much sense does that make?
 
Not at all. You havent even read his views but are already dismissing him. Age is not relevant, he is not Sleepy Joe Biden who cant remember the name of a PM. This man has mapped the virus, he did this very very early on when I was open to all views. He is saying vaccines created variants, this is no strange view , plenty of other experts are saying the same.

You take your sources and do whats right for you. Dont come on here preaching , when I have no clue as to who you are. I know who this chap is, he has been correct thus far so I will listen to his expert views.
You have no clue who I am, but you also seem to hold the majority experts all around the world with a disparaging view ….. over the views of one expert. Do you not see the folly in your logic? I have read what he says, and I actually do agree with some of what he says but on the whole I tend to agree with this article:
https://www.lci.fr/sante/les-varian...ix-nobel-francais-luc-montagnier-2186402.html

But at a larger scale, I accept more variants as a probable result if it means majority of the world is protected. We keep moving forward. If we don’t all immunize and the virus keeps jumping from host to host, it’s going to have the same end result (more variants), why do you think the most deadly Delta variant actually emerged in India?

Like I said you can take one argument or fact and try and twist and turn it in a number of ways to meet your bias, because it helps make you feel better about your decision. But it’s not the right way of reasoning, you have to look at overall implications and the greater good. It’s not just about you anymore.
 
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:)

Very true! They want HCQ or Ivermectin or monoclonal antibodies and such cutting edge medication if they get sick, but they are not ok with the vaccine to avoid it in the first place. How much sense does that make?

Bet . This topic is sensitive to me personally because I have someone close die from it and I've seen people in my own family catch covid (delta) after being fully vaccinated . I can tell you from personal experience that the difference between a non vaccinated person and vaccinated person catching it is Day and Night . The vaccinated folks had minor symptoms and recovered in 3-4 days , the un vaccinated still have a long road to recovery ahead. If you love your family and if you wanna live for them please get the vaccine Or not . At this point most people have made up their minds , no point in arguing about it.
 
Bet . This topic is sensitive to me personally because I have someone close die from it and I've seen people in my own family catch covid (delta) after being fully vaccinated . I can tell you from personal experience that the difference between a non vaccinated person and vaccinated person catching it is Day and Night . The vaccinated folks had minor symptoms and recovered in 3-4 days , the un vaccinated still have a long road to recovery ahead. If you love your family and if you wanna live for them please get the vaccine Or not . At this point most people have made up their minds , no point in arguing about it.

Sorry to hear and I have to say a lot of people are in the same boat. I have personally lost a number of close relatives and friends and my better half works as a healthcare provider so she is on the frontlines of it all and I can see the massive toll it’s taking on her and others by association. It does become a sensitive subject for us because of that. She treats patients everyday who are regretful on their deathbed they didn’t take the vaccine. It’s a sad state when most of the naysayers are not a result of differences in scientific interpretation of facts but plain old politics.. completely divorced from facts.
 
You have no clue who I am, but you also seem to hold the majority experts all around the world with a disparaging view ….. over the views of one expert. Do you not see the folly in your logic? I have read what he says, and I actually do agree with some of what he says but on the whole I tend to agree with this article:
https://www.lci.fr/sante/les-varian...ix-nobel-francais-luc-montagnier-2186402.html

But at a larger scale, I accept more variants as a probable result if it means majority of the world is protected. We keep moving forward. If we don’t all immunize and the virus keeps jumping from host to host, it’s going to have the same end result (more variants), why do you think the most deadly Delta variant actually emerged in India?

Like I said you can take one argument or fact and try and twist and turn it in a number of ways to meet your bias, because it helps make you feel better about your decision. But it’s not the right way of reasoning, you have to look at overall implications and the greater good. It’s not just about you anymore.

Appreciate your contribution, stay safe. :)
 
So...

No matter how many boosters, shots you take, you can still pass on the virus and also become sick. But you MAY or may not become serious.

A fit, healthy person with a strong immune system who is not vaccinated is better off than a weak , unfit , overweight, unhealthy person who has 4/5 jabs.


Firstly, I know outwardly fit and healthy people who are crippled by this thing. Long term respiratory problems, brain fog, memory loss.

Do both, have a healthy lifestyle and take the vaccine. It’s about loading the odds in your favour.
 
Firstly, I know outwardly fit and healthy people who are crippled by this thing. Long term respiratory problems, brain fog, memory loss.

Do both, have a healthy lifestyle and take the vaccine. It’s about loading the odds in your favour.

Vaccinated people who have died as a result of Covid and the vaccine. Taking booster shots every 6 months when 98% dont die, makes no sense to me.
 
Vaccinated people who have died as a result of Covid and the vaccine. Taking booster shots every 6 months when 98% dont die, makes no sense to me.
That statement didn’t make any sense to me. Did you mean to say: Vaccinated people have also died as a result of covid?

And you need the booster because it becomes less effective over time. So yes, if you are vaccinated 98% probability you won’t die, but it starts becoming less and less with the progression of time. I happen to know for a fact the antibodies go down to almost zero after 6-7 months.
 
That statement didn’t make any sense to me. Did you mean to say: Vaccinated people have also died as a result of covid?

And you need the booster because it becomes less effective over time. So yes, if you are vaccinated 98% probability you won’t die, but it starts becoming less and less with the progression of time. I happen to know for a fact the antibodies go down to almost zero after 6-7 months.

Yes thats correct, typo.

98% was the figure before the vaccine rollouts take course properly.
 
Yes thats correct, typo.

98% was the figure before the vaccine rollouts take course properly.

Sure, I understand, but there are no absolutes here. There will always be exceptions. But a massive majority has been proven to be protected and a vast majority of recent casualties of covid are those who were unvaccinated.
 
Sure, I understand, but there are no absolutes here. There will always be exceptions. But a massive majority has been proven to be protected and a vast majority of recent casualties of covid are those who were unvaccinated.

There are so many variables.

e.g Pakistan has a low vaccination rate but has far less deaths compared to UK. Before the rollout and after.

You may Pak arent be transparent but UK has admitted anyone testing positive for Covid but then dies for any other reason, Covid goes down as the reason for death.

Its real, can be dangerous but nations have used this for their own agendas, mainly big companies making more profits.
 
There are so many variables.

e.g Pakistan has a low vaccination rate but has far less deaths compared to UK. Before the rollout and after.

You may Pak arent be transparent but UK has admitted anyone testing positive for Covid but then dies for any other reason, Covid goes down as the reason for death.

Its real, can be dangerous but nations have used this for their own agendas, mainly big companies making more profits.

I hope you realize how you have gone from questioning Fauci, the gain of function research to now claiming big companies are making profits. Now if I say you are just regurgitating all completely disconnected RW conspiracy theories, you will retort I am the one watching too much CNN.

But the truth is none of what you have said has any rhyme or reason. This is not a conspiracy, my friend. No one enterprise has profited from it. Depending on which region you are in there are various drug makers who are making these vaccines. And even if the numbers are exaggerated, there are so many people all around you who have lost healthy and normal family members or relatives to the disease. Let’s not question the danger this disease poses to us. I think doing that is a disservice to all who lost their loved ones to it. It’s a very sensitive subject and your point was really really insensitive in my opinion.
 
Wasn't convinced about the vaccine felt was too early & needed more tests.
Case proven its not stopping the virus spread look at Israel most vaccinated nation & now with one of the highest cases of covid delta variant.
This proves vaccine have caused variant and they will just give boosters to you rest of your life.
I had covid and recovered from it Alhumdulilah and have now natural immunity why would I want to destroy that & take vaccine?
Most studies have found the best immunity is natural immunity.
 
Imo its scaremongering, picking and choosing cases so people worry, thus get vaccinated. You cant fly, you cant go shops, school, work etc

The latest data from Israel shows a large majority of their recent cases are from the vaccinated. Israel is now preparing a 4th dose. Viruses mutate to escape, vaccines in the long term will make things worse not better.

Today the authorities in the UK have recommended not to give vaccines to teenagers.

Ive not had Covid, yet people I know who are vaccinated have tested positive more than once after the vaccine.

I also know double-jabbed people who have had COVID. The point is - they didn’t need hospitalisation, they just experienced a bad cold.

In January, we were losing 2000 people per day to this thing. Now we are losing just 100 per day. That’s because of the success of the vaccine roll-out. Without the vaccine we would still be losing 2000 people per day. Eventually herd immunity would kick in, but before that happened a million Britons would be dead. Three times the casualty rate of WW2. NHS collapse. Undertakers unable to cope with demand. Bodies dropped into mass graves by bulldozers. Riots. The Army on the streets. The vaccine prevented all that.
 
Wasn't convinced about the vaccine felt was too early & needed more tests.
Case proven its not stopping the virus spread look at Israel most vaccinated nation & now with one of the highest cases of covid delta variant.
This proves vaccine have caused variant and they will just give boosters to you rest of your life.
I had covid and recovered from it Alhumdulilah and have now natural immunity why would I want to destroy that & take vaccine?
Most studies have found the best immunity is natural immunity.

Obviously, when 90% of your population is vaccinated, more cases will crop up in that group. There are very few unvaccinated people by comparison.

You have what you term “natural immunity” to the variant you were exposed to, not to every variant. That’s why people catch cold year after year. Except colds won’t kill people while COVID kills or cripples lots of people. That’s why every nation is rolling out mass vaccination.
 
Obviously, when 90% of your population is vaccinated, more cases will crop up in that group. There are very few unvaccinated people by comparison.

You have what you term “natural immunity” to the variant you were exposed to, not to every variant. That’s why people catch cold year after year. Except colds won’t kill people while COVID kills or cripples lots of people. That’s why every nation is rolling out mass vaccination.

Unvaccinated who had covid are protected more against the Variants then the vaccinated its a Israeli study.
This person had covid and took his case to court & won to prove natural immunity is best & its plain silly to get vaccinated if you had covid.
https://youtu.be/u9B_WfI-_io

Also vaccine don't protect you from variants & some studies show they are actually cause of the variants.
 
Firstly, I know outwardly fit and healthy people who are crippled by this thing. Long term respiratory problems, brain fog, memory loss.

Do both, have a healthy lifestyle and take the vaccine. It’s about loading the odds in your favour.

It’s quite rare for fit and healthy people to get particularly ill with covid or long covid. These people who outwardly appeared to be fit & healthy likely had one or more underlying health conditions. Or, they were just really really unlucky.

The statistics in this case do not lie. Although there will be dramatic anomalies, the hard facts are that most people who get hospitalised with covid or end up dying from it have existing health conditions, and they will often be elderly as well — and/or they will be medically obese.

I agree that the vaccine, on balance, reduces the chances of any person — in any state of health, of any age, and of any ethnicity — ending up in a hospital bed or an early grave due to covid.

We should support the vaccine and get the two jabs. Not sure about the boosters.
 
It’s quite rare for fit and healthy people to get particularly ill with covid or long covid. These people who outwardly appeared to be fit & healthy likely had one or more underlying health conditions. Or, they were just really really unlucky.

The statistics in this case do not lie. Although there will be dramatic anomalies, the hard facts are that most people who get hospitalised with covid or end up dying from it have existing health conditions, and they will often be elderly as well — and/or they will be medically obese.

I agree that the vaccine, on balance, reduces the chances of any person — in any state of health, of any age, and of any ethnicity — ending up in a hospital bed or an early grave due to covid.

We should support the vaccine and get the two jabs. Not sure about the boosters.

I am not sure about anything too now.
I have taken 4 doses. 2 of sinopharm in Feb-21 and 2 of Pfizer now in Sep-21. That ws made mandatory in UAE
 
Unvaccinated who had covid are protected more against the Variants then the vaccinated its a Israeli study.
This person had covid and took his case to court & won to prove natural immunity is best & its plain silly to get vaccinated if you had covid.
https://youtu.be/u9B_WfI-_io

Also vaccine don't protect you from variants & some studies show they are actually cause of the variants.

I would not want to risk death building up “natural immunity”. I would prefer to be jabbed and get the antibodies / T cells that way. Which is what I did.

Double-jabbed people are highly unlikely to require hospitalisation due to Delta infection.

“Natural immunity” will also result in mutation into new variants. The virus will have to evolve to survive.
 
Although there will be dramatic anomalies, the hard facts are that most people who get hospitalised with covid or end up dying from it have existing health conditions, and they will often be elderly as well — and/or they will be medically obese.

Well, you can say the same about the flu, or any other disease.
 
Well, you can say the same about the flu, or any other disease.

Yes you can, and when I realised that this was the truth of the matter, I felt much more relaxed about the health implications of Covid. This virus has an overall case fatality rate of around 1%, with the Long Covid rate being only slightly higher than this.

An example of an actual lethal virus, that would fully justify harsh measures being taken by governments within society to prevent its spread if it ever arrived en masse on our own doorsteps, would be Ebola. This disease kills a minimum of 25% of people who catch it, with an average case fatality rate of 50%, and a chance of dying of up to 90% when a person has Ebola. People who die of Ebola also do not slowly slip away on ventilators whilst unconscious — they die of medical shock, often in absolute horror and extreme pain, as they sweat and bleed to death. There is no treatment for people who contract Ebola. Now this is a genuinely terrifying prospect.

Consider this, and one realises that the Covid at this stage is something that humanity can live with. Almost all healthy people who catch it make a full recovery — and for those who need jabs, there is a globally available arsenal of effective vaccines to choose from.
 
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I also know double-jabbed people who have had COVID. The point is - they didn’t need hospitalisation, they just experienced a bad cold.

In January, we were losing 2000 people per day to this thing. Now we are losing just 100 per day. That’s because of the success of the vaccine roll-out. Without the vaccine we would still be losing 2000 people per day. Eventually herd immunity would kick in, but before that happened a million Britons would be dead. Three times the casualty rate of WW2. NHS collapse. Undertakers unable to cope with demand. Bodies dropped into mass graves by bulldozers. Riots. The Army on the streets. The vaccine prevented all that.

No it didnt. Last summer cases were similar & deaths too , with the vaccine hardly being rolled out.

No offence but people who think the vaccine has saved the day, are being fooled. Vaccines will create more variants and those vaccinated are less protected than those not with natural immunity. Sooner or later all these vaccinations will see a new very dangerous variant emerge and those vaccinated will be most at risk. Bump this up in a few years. God willing.
 
No it didnt. Last summer cases were similar & deaths too , with the vaccine hardly being rolled out.

No offence but people who think the vaccine has saved the day, are being fooled. Vaccines will create more variants and those vaccinated are less protected than those not with natural immunity. Sooner or later all these vaccinations will see a new very dangerous variant emerge and those vaccinated will be most at risk. Bump this up in a few years. God willing.

That’s not correct. See:

1968589F-6A59-4B28-8DA2-3CDF747C687C.jpg

As you can see, by June the COVID death rate was in single figures. I was doubled jabbed by then.

The rate has risen since largely due to the end of lockdown and people getting too confident and unmasking.

Every statement in your second paragraph is false.
 
That’s not correct. See:

View attachment 111839

As you can see, by June the COVID death rate was in single figures. I was doubled jabbed by then.

The rate has risen since largely due to the end of lockdown and people getting too confident and unmasking.

Every statement in your second paragraph is false.

The graph looks similar enough for the summer months of 2020 and this year.
 
Yes you can, and when I realised that this was the truth of the matter, I felt much more relaxed about the health implications of Covid. This virus has an overall case fatality rate of around 1%, with the Long Covid rate being only slightly higher than this.

An example of an actual lethal virus, that would fully justify harsh measures being taken by governments within society to prevent its spread if it ever arrived en masse on our own doorsteps, would be Ebola. This disease kills a minimum of 25% of people who catch it, with an average case fatality rate of 50%, and a chance of dying of up to 90% when a person has Ebola. People who die of Ebola also do not slowly slip away on ventilators whilst unconscious — they die of medical shock, often in absolute horror and extreme pain, as they sweat and bleed to death. There is no treatment for people who contract Ebola. Now this is a genuinely terrifying prospect.

Consider this, and one realises that the Covid at this stage is something that humanity can live with. Almost all healthy people who catch it make a full recovery — and for those who need jabs, there is a globally available arsenal of effective vaccines to choose from.

COVID fatality rate was running at 2.5% in U.K. last year but has dropped under 2%, due to the vaccine rollout and the NHS gearing up.

Ebola is too effective for its own good, as it tends to kill everyone or cripple them to the point where they cannot feed. That is why it flares up in a remote village and goes quiet again. Everyone dies. Treatment for Ebola involves isolation, transfusion and drugs to maintain blood pressure leading to spontaneous recovery. Fatality rate is more like 50% but it is not airborne so can be contained with sterile practices. If an infected person flies in to LHR I am confident that we can stop an outbreak.
 
The graph looks similar enough for the summer months of 2020 and this year.

We were locked down in summer 2020 until July, then again in September and November. See the rises inbetween the lockdowns. Only when BoZo let us out for Christmas in a populist move did the death rate really spike. It got into my friend’s mother’s retirement home and killed 25% of the residents, including my friend’s mother.
 
I would not want to risk death building up “natural immunity”. I would prefer to be jabbed and get the antibodies / T cells that way. Which is what I did.

Double-jabbed people are highly unlikely to require hospitalisation due to Delta infection.

“Natural immunity” will also result in mutation into new variants. The virus will have to evolve to survive.

That's another myth that double jabbed not getting hospitalised.
I know personally few people who have gone to hospital & 1 died who was double jabbed.
Look at Israel double vaccinated also ending up in Hospitals.
So this vaccine does not protect you from the virus or spreading it.
Why would I risk getting a vaccine which adverse effects are unprecedented in medical history.
Check this out FDA admitting Vaccinated are dying https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=15615&v=WFph7-6t34M&feature=youtu.be
 
We were locked down in summer 2020 until July, then again in September and November. See the rises inbetween the lockdowns. Only when BoZo let us out for Christmas in a populist move did the death rate really spike. It got into my friend’s mother’s retirement home and killed 25% of the residents, including my friend’s mother.

Sorry for the loss of to your friend, its been tragic for many.

August , Sept are similar when these months should have risen after people coming out of lockdown with weakend immune systems.

That's another myth that double jabbed not getting hospitalised.
I know personally few people who have gone to hospital & 1 died who was double jabbed.
Look at Israel double vaccinated also ending up in Hospitals.
So this vaccine does not protect you from the virus or spreading it.
Why would I risk getting a vaccine which adverse effects are unprecedented in medical history.
Check this out FDA admitting Vaccinated are dying https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=15615&v=WFph7-6t34M&feature=youtu.be

How do you feel about the travel restrictions for non-vaccinated people? Would this change your mind to get vaccinated? Hope your work is going well brother.
 
Sorry for the loss of to your friend, its been tragic for many.

August , Sept are similar when these months should have risen after people coming out of lockdown with weakend immune systems.



How do you feel about the travel restrictions for non-vaccinated people? Would this change your mind to get vaccinated? Hope your work is going well brother.

At the moment I won't take the vaccine will wait until further studies on safety & effectiveness are done.
Travel business has been dead but hopefully with new guidelines for Travel,
if anyone wants to travel,
well it will he mostly vaccinated will be able to arrange for them Insha'Allah.
 
At the moment I won't take the vaccine will wait until further studies on safety & effectiveness are done.
Travel business has been dead but hopefully with new guidelines for Travel,
if anyone wants to travel,
well it will he mostly vaccinated will be able to arrange for them Insha'Allah.

I think certain nations will approve or reject certain vaccines.

Check out the latest from India.

Fully jabbed Indians considered unvaccinated in UK, have to undergo 10-day quarantine

https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavir...vel-rules-quarantine-covid-1854764-2021-09-20
 
That's another myth that double jabbed not getting hospitalised.
I know personally few people who have gone to hospital & 1 died who was double jabbed.
Look at Israel double vaccinated also ending up in Hospitals.
So this vaccine does not protect you from the virus or spreading it.
Why would I risk getting a vaccine which adverse effects are unprecedented in medical history.
Check this out FDA admitting Vaccinated are dying https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=15615&v=WFph7-6t34M&feature=youtu.be

Logical fallacy. So if a person wearing a seatbelt dies in a car crash, that means seatbelts don’t ever work according to your thinking.

But they do save lives - not in every case, but they massively reduce the fatality rate, as does the COVID vaccine.
 
Logical fallacy. So if a person wearing a seatbelt dies in a car crash, that means seatbelts don’t ever work according to your thinking.

But they do save lives - not in every case, but they massively reduce the fatality rate, as does the COVID vaccine.

There are no absolutes here nor any guarantees, thats why I keep saying.

Not everybody will die from the virus
Not every vaccinated person will survive the virus.

But you have a better chance of surviving if you are vaccinated. It’s a very very simple concept, over complicated or not well understood by simple minded folks here.
 
Got Fully vaccinated today with double dose of Pfizer. Hopefully this pandemic passes and we can go back to some sense of normalcy hopefully in 2022.
Thanks to all who got vaccinated.
 
There are no absolutes here nor any guarantees, thats why I keep saying.

Not everybody will die from the virus
Not every vaccinated person will survive the virus.

But you have a better chance of surviving if you are vaccinated. It’s a very very simple concept, over complicated or not well understood by simple minded folks here.

I would say simple minded people cant understand natural immunity is more effective than a vaccine.

There are more and more reports of vaccinated people dying, here's a couple who probably thought the vaccine will offer them a better chance, it didnt on this occasion.

Fully vaccinated Michigan couple both die of Covid, one-minute apart holding hands

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-vaccine-couple-death-b1928404.html

Israel the most vaccianted nation is now wanting people to get a 4th does.

Do you know why? Vaccinated are falling ill to covid in large numbers.

Study: COVID recovery gave Israelis longer-lasting Delta defense than vaccines

The variant was 27 times more likely to break through Pfizer protection from January-February and cause symptoms than it was to penetrate natural immunity from the same period

https://www.timesofisrael.com/study...s-longer-lasting-delta-defense-than-vaccines/
 
Got Fully vaccinated today with double dose of Pfizer. Hopefully this pandemic passes and we can go back to some sense of normalcy hopefully in 2022.
Thanks to all who got vaccinated.

Thanking them for what? lol

Mass vacinations for such a virus only lead to more variants. Those variants are more likely to harm patients who are vaccinated rather than those with natural immunity.
 
Thanking them for what? lol

Mass vacinations for such a virus only lead to more variants. Those variants are more likely to harm patients who are vaccinated rather than those with natural immunity.

Thanks for making our communities safer by taking vaccines. Same as taking vaccines for Polio, Measles
I would not bother much about the opinions of anti-vax and anti science sheeple. They can go to hell.
 
I would say simple minded people cant understand natural immunity is more effective than a vaccine.

There are more and more reports of vaccinated people dying, here's a couple who probably thought the vaccine will offer them a better chance, it didnt on this occasion.

Israel the most vaccianted nation is now wanting people to get a 4th does.

Do you know why? Vaccinated are falling ill to covid in large numbers.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/study...s-longer-lasting-delta-defense-than-vaccines/

What you are saying here is that because people wearing seatbelts sometimes die in car crashes, your “natural immunity” to getting injured means nobody should wear a seatbelt.

Yes I might survive a car crash without my seatbelt on, but my odds are much better if I wear one.

The vaccine is my seatbelt. I am extremely unlikely to require hospitalisation if/when I contract COVID. I am extremely unlikely to develop long COVID - ongoing breathing difficulties, brain fog, organ failure.

We could take your advice but 2000 of us would die every day instead of 150.

Israel, by the way, is now losing very few people to COVID due to their world-leading vaccine roll-out.
 
What you are saying here is that because people wearing seatbelts sometimes die in car crashes, your “natural immunity” to getting injured means nobody should wear a seatbelt.

Yes I might survive a car crash without my seatbelt on, but my odds are much better if I wear one.

The vaccine is my seatbelt. I am extremely unlikely to require hospitalisation if/when I contract COVID. I am extremely unlikely to develop long COVID - ongoing breathing difficulties, brain fog, organ failure.

We could take your advice but 2000 of us would die every day instead of 150.

Israel, by the way, is now losing very few people to COVID due to their world-leading vaccine roll-out.

You ignore basic points and turn it into some weird analogy.

Answer my points please or no point replying.

1. Masses of evidence showing Covid19 originated in a lab, the genome has been mapped. Why arent the same governments you follow hiding this?

2. Science is now showing natural immunity is many more times better than a vaccine. Best seatbelt in this scenario is natural immunity, vaccine is like a thin rope seatbelt. Do you accept this? IF not why not?

Losing people was never an issue, 98% recovered from day 1.
 
You ignore basic points and turn it into some weird analogy.

Answer my points please or no point replying.

1. Masses of evidence showing Covid19 originated in a lab, the genome has been mapped. Why arent the same governments you follow hiding this?

2. Science is now showing natural immunity is many more times better than a vaccine. Best seatbelt in this scenario is natural immunity, vaccine is like a thin rope seatbelt. Do you accept this? IF not why not?

Losing people was never an issue, 98% recovered from day 1.

No body wants to discuss q2. Sadly it’s becoming more and more political now, especially here in the US.
 
I would like to see data the suggests that more vaccinated people are dying than unvaccinated ones. Last I checked, a month or so ago, the data proved the vaccine worked and over 85% of deaths in August or thereabouts were those of unvaccinated people.

If anybody has authentic data or source that clearly states more vaccinated people are dying, I would like to see it.
 
Do you think it’s politics with some of the Pakistani people here or some other reason why they are anti vaxxers?

I know in the US, most anti vaxxers are right wingers, so clearly it’s a political thing. Boggles my mind why Pakistanis would tend to believe the same things American right wingers do.
 
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You ignore basic points and turn it into some weird analogy.

Answer my points please or no point replying.

1. Masses of evidence showing Covid19 originated in a lab, the genome has been mapped. Why arent the same governments you follow hiding this?

2. Science is now showing natural immunity is many more times better than a vaccine. Best seatbelt in this scenario is natural immunity, vaccine is like a thin rope seatbelt. Do you accept this? IF not why not?

Losing people was never an issue, 98% recovered from day 1.

I ignore your basic points because you repeat them over and over without hearing counter-argument.

I make a perfectly valid public health analogy about population-wide harm reduction.

1. So it got out of a lab in Wuhan. Irrelevant where it came from. It’s here now and we have to deal.

2. Last January, 2000 people were dying with COVID per day. Now, 150 people are dying per day. The difference is due to mass vaccine rollout. Those 2000 people per day didn’t have your “natural immunity seatbelt”, they went through the windscreen.

“Losing people was never as issue”…. to you. I presume nobody you know has been killed or crippled for life by this scourge. 150,000 dead and counting is an issue to me. Friends of mine lost parents, and colleagues will have lung scarring for life.

You think a 98% recovery rate is good? Let’s think about 2% of the population dying. Without the vaccine, that’s 1.3 million Britons dead. So the rest would gain “natural immunity” - and 1,3 million would die. So the vaccine has already saved over a million human souls, just in the UK. A million parents, spouses, siblings, and children didn’t have to bury a loved one.

I say buried. There would be no burials. There are not enough undertakers to bury that many. What I mean is the Army setting up mass cremation sites, and bulldozers shoving piles of corpses into mass graves.

The vaccine spared us that horror.
 
I repeat

I would like to see the data that supports more people are dying due to vaccinations than covid.
 
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