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World Test Championship: 2021-2023

silentkiller187 said:
How many different groups and teams are in the above mentioned leagues, this is a simple 12 team championship over 2 years , the reason everyone doesn't play everyone is because of indias reluctance to play Pakistan, simple as that
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Nah it's not that simple. Test matches take place for 5 days and each series lasts 80-120 hours. You can't just make 12 teams play everyone among each other for a Test series "league" inside 22-23 months. It's unrealistic and frankly impossible. And also, you are deluding yourself if you think Cricket Australia or ECB would jump up and schedule test tours of Zimbabwe , Bangladesh , Ireland etc if suddenly India starts playing Pakistan.


If you want a proper test championship let everyone play everyone and then you can see who is the best, its a very simple concept but Indian fans want to overcomplicate things to justify their own team refusing to play everyone
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Again.. who defines a "proper championship"? There is no written law or heck...even a general consensus that everyone should everyone for a tournament to be "proper". And no..the Indian team did not refuse to play anyone. Think they'll be more than happy to pad-up their stats by playing regularly against Pakistan in the SC. Rather it's the Indian government that's against bilateral fixtures. If it was in BCCI's hands, they'd schedule an Indo-Pak series every 6 months and $ell them to $tar for more big bucks.
 
Mesozoic said:
Nah it's not that simple. Test matches take place for 5 days and each series lasts 80-120 hours. You can't just make 12 teams play everyone among each other for a Test series "league" inside 22-23 months. It's unrealistic and frankly impossible. And also, you are deluding yourself if you think Cricket Australia or ECB would jump up and schedule test tours of Zimbabwe , Bangladesh , Ireland etc if suddenly India starts playing Pakistan.


Again.. who defines a "proper championship"? There is no written law or heck...even a general consensus that everyone should everyone for a tournament to be "proper". And no..the Indian team did not refuse to play anyone. Think they'll be more than happy to pad-up their stats by playing regularly against Pakistan in the SC. Rather it's the Indian government that's against bilateral fixtures. If it was in BCCI's hands, they'd schedule an Indo-Pak series every 6 months and $ell them to $tar for more big bucks.
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So you can squeeze 7 series into the calendar but finding the space for another 2 series would be impossible? And this is where the problem is, how can you be a "champion" of your sport but then pick and choose who you play against because one series isn't as financially viable as the other, this is the root cause of the whole problem, show me any other sport where teams refuse to compete against another because they wouldn't make enough money?

I think there is a general consensus on this forum where the discussion is being had that all test nations should play each other to ensure fair contest and consistency. Whether BCCI is refusing or India is refusing, the bottom line is its not a fair contest because not everyone plays everyone, we may aswel go back to the mace again then if thats the case, even Misbah won one of those.
 
silentkiller187 said:
So you can squeeze 7 series into the calendar but finding the space for another 2 series would be impossible? And this is where the problem is, how can you be a "champion" of your sport but then pick and choose who you play against because one series isn't as financially viable as the other, this is the root cause of the whole problem, show me any other sport where teams refuse to compete against another because they wouldn't make enough money?

I think there is a general consensus on this forum where the discussion is being had that all test nations should play each other to ensure fair contest and consistency. Whether BCCI is refusing or India is refusing, the bottom line is its not a fair contest because not everyone plays everyone, we may aswel go back to the mace again then if thats the case, even Misbah won one of those.
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Feel we're going around circles now. Let's just agree to disagree. Nice discussion though!
 
Mesozoic said:
Feel we're going around circles now. Let's just agree to disagree. Nice discussion though!
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yep good discussion, one we have to agree to disagree on, but all these different opinions show cricket as a whole has a lot of work to do to try and revive the test match format and make it competitive and fair for all.
 
Latest World Test Championship points table after Sri Lanka (386 & 191/4d) defeated West Indies (230 & 160) by 187 runs to win the 1st Test

Screenshot 2021-11-25 125848.jpg
 
Very important series for india and pakistan ( From tomorrow) .both team want to take full point from those series to meet In WTC final.
 
FFrB-dkXMAAnvUC
 
Is the Ashes in scope for world test championship points? How does it work as both Australia and England play 5 tests every 2 years.
 
gazza619 said:
Is the Ashes in scope for world test championship points? How does it work as both Australia and England play 5 tests every 2 years.
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The formulas and fixtures are worked out so each team has the opportunity to achieve a fair score, even if number of matches played ends up being different.

“Teams will be ranked on the percentage of available points they won from the matches they have played.”
 
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Would Pakistan have declared for 300 if WTC points weren't at stake?

This is good in the sense that teams will be forced to be bold, take chances, go for victory when half a chance.

On the flip side, what is test cricket if there aren't boring draws, rain washed games, 200 ball 30's, stats padding and all the other nice stuff.

Not sure where I stand on it.
 
Looks like Australia and Pakistan make it to the final and as usual Australia hammering pakistan to win it's first world test championship. Warner to score 200 runs in this test.
 
dravidthewall said:
Looks like Australia and Pakistan make it to the final and as usual Australia hammering pakistan to win it's first world test championship. Warner to score 200 runs in this test.
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We are preparing Dahani to counter Warner.
 
Since the WTC final is an ICC event, who won the bid to broadcast it? Was there even a bidding process? Because I do not remember reading about it.
 
gazza619 said:
^lol @ england penalty points.

A very harsh lesson.
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Their own fault. There is such a lackadasical attitude by Root's team that even the worst teams under Cook did not play like this. Flimsy, weak, with few saving graces.
 
I expect England to finish 6th. They are looking completely down and out in Test format.
 
Sigh we should be 100%. Kemar roach and bad luck may cost us down the road.
 
shamaan said:
Its an excellent move by ICC but harsh.
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Over rates have been awful for years.

They've tried less intrusive measures like fines or suspending the captain after x number of issues.

If they stick to their guns with these points penalties it might actually work.
 
wrongun said:
Over rates have been awful for years.

They've tried less intrusive measures like fines or suspending the captain after x number of issues.

If they stick to their guns with these points penalties it might actually work.
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It's not really a hard problem but the ICC isn't really willing to solve it because most of the retired boomers run technical committees.

A simple way to solve this problem

1. Eliminate/shorten the drinks break that's in the middle of the session. These are elite athletes, they can do without resting every 50 minutes or so during a test match.

2. Ensure that 30 overs are bowled in the first two sessions and the session ends only when the thirty overs are bowled and if it eats into the lunch or tea break, so be it.

3. The last session is tricky because not all grounds will allow for an elongated day, so cater for it by starting the day earlier. 85 overs bowled in the day, next day play starts 20 minutes earlier and the team responsible for delay gets a fine/points docked. etc.
 
U$ofA said:
But who has the broadcasting rights? Is it going to be Sky since it's in Eng? Or since this is not ECB but an ICC event, someone else bid for it?
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It will be a standalone match, so the rights will be sold when the two finalists are confirmed, as it was last time around.

The aim of the WTC is to provide context for bilateral test cricket, in order to enhance the value of television rights for bilateral cricket. It will take time and patience, snap judgements are irrelevant.
 
Last Monetarist said:
It will be a standalone match, so the rights will be sold when the two finalists are confirmed, as it was last time around.

The aim of the WTC is to provide context for bilateral test cricket, in order to enhance the value of television rights for bilateral cricket. It will take time and patience, snap judgements are irrelevant.
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So I am guessing if the final is between Aus & Pak, Disney or Sky will have no interest. The bidding will be between Fox and PTV.

I guess it is better that way for ICC. They will be able to sell the rights for a higher price.
 
England have been docked eight ICC World Test Championship points – three more than previously stated – for maintaining a slow over-rate in the first Ashes Test against Australia.

Last Saturday, it was announced that England would be docked five WTC points, one for each over they were found to initially have fallen short by. However, it has since emerged they were eight overs short, and will therefore lose three additional points.

That left them with six points after five Tests in the ongoing 2021-23 cycle of the WTC, putting them at the 7th spot in the table, with a win percentage of 10%.


WTC-table-on-17-Dec.png



England were also fined 100% of their match fee for the breach. “England were eight overs short (not five overs short as previously announced) but were only fined 100 per cent of their match fee due to the limit,” the ICC said.

“However, the points deduction for penalty overs is not capped and must reflect the actual number of penalty overs a team is short of the minimum requirement as per Clause 16.1.2 of the ICC Playing Conditions, hence they have been penalised one point for each over they were short.”

England, who lost the first Ashes Test by nine wickets, were also penalised for poor over rate in the home series against India in July-August, meaning they’ve now conceded a total of 10 points to slow over rate.

https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2420308
 
If India win in SA, let's say 2-0 or 2-1, India are right back in it but Pakistan have a lot of home cricket...
 
So this matters on percentage of wins or number of points? As we have less points then India but we are higher on the list
 
Forward Defensive Push said:
Very much possible looking at the fixtures and quality of teams.
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In the current system, an away win in WI or SL or Bangladesh counts as the same as an away win in Australia or England or SA. That is really stupid.

The world Test ranking system though not perfect, is much better as it is over a 4 year cycle so it includes both home and away series against the same teams. Maybe the final should be played between the #1 and #2 ranked teams.
 
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Napa said:
In the current system, an away win in WI or SL or Bangladesh counts as the same as an away win in Australia or England or SA. That is really stupid.

The world Test ranking system though not perfect, is much better as it is over a 4 year cycle so it includes both home and away series against the same teams. Maybe the final should be played between the #1 and #2 ranked teams.
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Yea this is bound to happen when some teams don’t want to play certain other teams. Ideally you want every team to play every other team. But we know that won’t happen so have to contend with whatever we can muster.
 
Forward Defensive Push said:
Yea this is bound to happen when some teams don’t want to play certain other teams. Ideally you want every team to play every other team. But we know that won’t happen so have to contend with whatever we can muster.
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India may not play Pakistan, but the Test rankings system still works better than the current ICC system for the World Championship.

Imagine Pakistan playing Australia in Australia for the Championship :))
 
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Hassaan HS said:
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India head coach Rahul Dravid has expressed disappointment over losing World Test Championship points due to a slow over-rate in the Centurion Test, saying the ICC is trying to speed up the game and the rules are similar for everyone, but losing hard-earned points in this manner feels harsh.

Notably, India were docked one point from their World Test Championship points tally for maintaining a slow over-rate during their first Test victory at the SuperSport Park in Centurion last month.

"ICC is trying to speed up the game, but it does feel harsh as a coach. They've tried other things in the past that didn't work, so they are trying this route which I am fine with. It’s an area we need to get better at. But difficult to pinpoint how many minutes we lose," Rahul Dravid said on the eve of the 2nd Test at the Wanderers in Johannesburg.

'Disappointing to lose points on slow over-rate'

India were also fined 20 per cent of their match fee for the over-rate offense in Centurion. The visitors collected 12 points after their historic win at the iconic venue but they will lose a point for being one over short of the target, according to Article 16.11 of the ICC Men's World Test Championship Playing Conditions.

This is India's first over-rate offense in the ongoing World Test Championship cycle. India are currently in the 4th spot with 53 points and a PCT of 63.09 behind Australia. Sri Lanka and Pakistan have lost 1, drawn 2 and won 4 Tests.

"The rules are the same for everyone, but disappointing to lose out on hard-earned overseas points. We understand it, trying to get better overseas. It'll be disappointing if we miss out (on the final) because of that," Dravid added.

Andrew Pycroft of the Emirates ICC Elite Panel of Match Referees imposed the sanction after India was one over short of the target after time allowances were taken into consideration.

https://www.indiatoday.in/sports/cr...sappointing-harsh-as-coach-1895093-2022-01-02
 
India only managed to bowl about 60 overs in two and a half sessions on Day 3 at Centurion, which is nowhere good enough. The points deduction is merited and Dravid should express his disappointment with his captain and bowlers.
 
I can understand icc docking points for slow over rate but how they apply in these conditions. There were total 294 overs( I am including 6 overs for change of innings) ie three days play.
So there was result in three days of quota overs, so how come one over slow rate affected the match.
Same thing I said in 2011 for Dhoni.
I didn't even like Dhoni test Captainship but the guy was banned for one test when match was finished in three days so even let say he was short by some over how does it affected the test match.
They should assess the slow over rate according to condition
 
Navdeep Srivastava said:
I can understand icc docking points for slow over rate but how they apply in these conditions. There were total 294 overs( I am including 6 overs for change of innings) ie three days play.
So there was result in three days of quota overs, so how come one over slow rate affected the match.
Same thing I said in 2011 for Dhoni.
I didn't even like Dhoni test Captainship but the guy was banned for one test when match was finished in three days so even let say he was short by some over how does it affected the test match.
They should assess the slow over rate according to condition
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There was 28.2 hours of playing time in the game, that's nearly a full 5 days worth of scheduled hours (without any extra time).
 
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HitWicket said:
There was 28.2 hours of playing time in the game, that's nearly a full 5 days worth of scheduled hours (without any extra time).
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Scratch this post, I've done the maths wrong in this case. Regardless though, before allowances India were still 30 overs behind the amount of overs they were meant to bowl in their time in the field. You can't be letting stuff like that go. We're in a unique situation at the moment obviously but it would also usually be short changing the paying crowd as well.
 
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HitWicket said:
Scratch this post, I've done the maths wrong in this case. Regardless though, before allowances India were still 30 overs behind the amount of overs they were meant to bowl in their time in the field. You can't be letting stuff like that go. We're in a unique situation at the moment obviously but it would also usually be short changing the paying crowd as well.
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Man how are you counting? Even if you take half an hour extra for three days( third, fourth and fifth) it is still three days and 2 session. One day was lost in rain.
How does that slow over rate affected the match.
I am saying if the result is under 4 days Or even before fifth day third session, this type of rate don't matter.
This type of stupid rules including two bouncers are the reason we don't see good fast bowling.
If match is draw then punish the culprit with fine, ban Or docking the point from wtc.
I already gave you the example of perth test match where match was ended in three days but Dhoni got the ban
 
Navdeep Srivastava said:
Man how are you counting? Even if you take half an hour extra for three days( third, fourth and fifth) it is still three days and 2 session.
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India were in the field for 10.7 hours. At an over rate of 15 overs per hour that would equal 160 overs. In that time they only managed to bowl 130 overs.

Navdeep Srivastava said:
One day was lost in rain.
How does that slow over rate affected the match.
I am saying if the result is under 4 days Or even before fifth day third session, this type of rate don't matter.
This type of stupid rules including two bouncers are the reason we don't see good fast bowling.
If match is draw then punish the culprit with fine, ban Or docking the point from wtc.
I already gave you the example of perth test match where match was ended in three days but Dhoni got the ban
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Whether the game was drawn or not shouldn't come into it. You're still (usually) short changing the crowd of their ticket price and a slower over rate can change the structure of a game regardless of whether it's drawn or not.
 
Day by day, week by week, it's becoming more and more likely that we're headed for an India vs Pakistan WTC final in 2023.

NZ now need to win 4/5 games in England and Pakistan/UAE to stay in the hunt which is most definitely not happening.

Australia will shed a lot of points on their subcontinent tours next year due to the absence of a quality spinner after Lyon's decline in the past year or so.

So unless Sri Lanka suprises us all by sweeping Pak, Aus at home and winning 2/4 Tests in India and New Zealand..... we're going to have an India vs Pakistan Test match after 16 years.
 
Smbhayi said:
Percentage ranking system so unfair to the teams who plays most games.. they should be decide the finalist by point..
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Absurd ..How can Pakistan be at the 3rd position not having won a single game in SENA?
 
dildilpak said:
Absurd ..How can Pakistan be at the 3rd position not having won a single game in SENA?
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This particular WTC cycle Pakistan will be playing SENA countries at home only. Great chance for them to reach the final unless they trip up against Australia at home.
 
England rock bottom :))) [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]

Should have our Test status suspended.
 
James said:
England rock bottom :))) [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]

Should have our Test status suspended.
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The last standing of Eng is mostly due to the joke format of WTC. Same point for winning in Aus/Ind vs winning at home against weak teams.

Just imagine for a minute, XYZ team playing 6 tests in Ind and Aus ( That's what Eng has played so far).

Highly unlikely that other teams will do better than what Eng did, most of them will do worse by not winning a single test.

I am not excusing the poor cricket by Eng, but this last standing would have been assured for the majority of teams with the same schedule. That's why I don't take WTC seriously. The only positive of WTC is that all teams want to win rather than going for a boring draw.
 
Buffet said:
The last standing of Eng is mostly due to the joke format of WTC. Same point for winning in Aus/Ind vs winning at home against weak teams.

Just imagine for a minute, XYZ team playing 6 tests in Ind and Aus ( That's what Eng has played so far).

Highly unlikely that other teams will do better than what Eng did, most of them will do worse by not winning a single test.

I am not excusing the poor cricket by Eng, but this last standing would have been assured for the majority of teams with the same schedule. That's why I don't take WTC seriously. The only positive of WTC is that all teams want to win rather than going for a boring draw.
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There is no one stopping England from scheduling matches and series against at home against weak nations. Also, I doubt if extras were ever even Zimbabwe's 3rd leading scoring for a calendar year. That is absurdely bad. No excuse. If Bangladesh can win a Test vs NZ, surely England can win one vs Australia or India.

Also, England have a habit of losing to "weak" teams at home. Windies, Sri Lanka have all won Tests in England in the last 10 years.
 
Shutdown Corner said:
There is no one stopping England from scheduling matches and series against at home against weak nations. Also, I doubt if extras were ever even Zimbabwe's 3rd leading scoring for a calendar year. That is absurdely bad. No excuse. If Bangladesh can win a Test vs NZ, surely England can win one vs Australia or India.

Also, England have a habit of losing to "weak" teams at home. Windies, Sri Lanka have all won Tests in England in the last 10 years.
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Yes, teams can win in Eng, but Eng won't be at the bottom if they had played 6 games at home vs 6 games in Ind/Aus. Yeah, you won one test in NZ, lets leave it at that while missing the point of WC format.
 
James said:
Surely next year will be a bit better…?
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To be fair, England had an unforgiving schedule in the last 10 months or so. For all the talk of "how bad England have become", people are forgetting that they've played India in India, australia in Australia and at home against the top2 test sides in the world.

I expect much better results next year against teams that are ranked below them.
 
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This is pretty much the same England side that won 3-1 in South Africa and 2-0 in Sri Lanka.

Fully expect them to beat WI in WI, draw 1-1 in Pakistan , win both home series' against NZ , SAF and draw the unfinished one against India by winning the rescheduled test. They just need to back the right players like Pope, Foakes, Lawrence, Parkinson, Saqib Mahmood etc and get rid of all the old baggages.
 
Mesozoic said:
To be fair, England had an unforgiving schedule in the last 10 months or so. For all the talk of "how bad England have become", people are forgetting that they've played India in India, australia in Australia and at home against the top2 test sides in the world.

I expect much better results next year against teams that are ranked below them.
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Good summary — I’m hoping so!! :)
 
New Zealand climb up the #WTC23 table after claiming 12 crucial points in the second Test against Bangladesh.

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