Would it surprise you if the rumors about Babar Azam remaining the white-ball captain turn out to be true?

[Cricket Warrior]

Many rumors are circulating that the PCB is planning to keep Babar Azam as the white-ball captain for Pakistan until the Champions Trophy 2025 despite the team's sharp decline under his leadership.

I really don't understand why PCB is so focused on Babar Azam. Is it because there is no other potential captain available or are they under pressure from the "dosti yar" gang with no one willing to accept another captain?

I believe giving him back the captaincy will further damage the Pakistan team. What do you guys think?

 

[Rana]

Management to Kirsten: “well the alternative is Rizwan?”

Kirsten: “Na bruv allow that….king karlega”

 

[Mamoon]

Babar or Rizwan are the only two sensible choices. I would lean towards Rizwan right now because Babar needs to focus on his batting has reclaim his status as the best ODI batsman in the world.

 

[Asad T]

The guy isn’t even captaining his team in the Champions Cup. If he was going to be retained as captain of Pakistan, he should have at least been allowed to captain this team loll. Typical PCB planning.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Management to Kirsten: “well the alternative is Rizwan?”

Kirsten: “Na bruv allow that….king karlega”

King nay already bera ghark ker to diya hai team ka.. what else they want him to do!

 

[batandballbattle]

Wouldn't be surprised one bit if the rumours were true
They talk big about 'Major Surgery' yet the hospital hasn't even been constructed

 

[Maliq_Mudasir]

Babar should decline it and invest his all energy and efforts to regain his form.

If he still takes it, then not sure if he even considers himself a consistent failure for last 2 years.

 

[FearlessRoar]

No surprise here, this is Pakistan cricket - unpredictable as ever. I'm now waiting to see which player Gary Kirsten will back as captain for the long haul

 

[Nikhil_cric]

There are no alternatives. Burdening a WK/BAT with captaincy rarely works.

It's not working for Buttler, didn't work for Sarfaraz or anyone else really. Dhoni was an exception for a few years .

And apart from Babar and Rizwan there are no real options.

 

[mominsaigol]

There are no alternatives. Burdening a WK/BAT with captaincy rarely works.

It's not working for Buttler, didn't work for Sarfaraz or anyone else really. Dhoni was an exception for a few years .

And apart from Babar and Rizwan there are no real options.

How did it not work for sarfraz?

 

[Barragan]

He is clueless majority of the time and most of his field settings after reactive to the shots played, but it becomes too late by that time especially for edges.

He also allows the opposition back into the game far too many times.

Just a complete disaster!

 

[Nikhil_cric]

How did it not work for sarfraz?

Sarfarazs form with the bat and gloves took an absolute beating after CT 2017. Pakistan's ODI record also took a beating after that.

 

[Galla]

How did it not work for sarfraz?

Have you even checked his win/loss ratio in tests and odis?Winning the CT was a one off when individual brillance got them through.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There are no alternatives. Burdening a WK/BAT with captaincy rarely works.

It's not working for Buttler, didn't work for Sarfaraz or anyone else really. Dhoni was an exception for a few years .

And apart from Babar and Rizwan there are no real options.

I don't think there is enough evidence to suggest that.

 

[Rana]

I don't think there is enough evidence or suggest that.

Well, everyone who batted first won their matches in the champions cup

So at the moment, there is no evidence to argue who is the best captain.

 

[TheSultan]

Even Dahani is a better choice than Babs

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Well, everyone who batted first won their matches in the champions cup

So at the moment, there is no evidence to argue who is the best captain.

I don't care about the Champions Cup. It's meaningless and unimportant.

There is enough evidence to suggest that Babar has been a complete failure as captain. Whatever future Shaheen had has been tainted by the PCB because of what they pulled and now his form has fallen off a cliff too. That only leaves behind Rizwan and based on the way Pakistan have been doing recently, they could do a whole lot worse than Rizwan.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The question Pakistan need to ask themselves is how long will they keep reinforcing a failure? How many ICC tournaments? Under Babar we have already had 4. The failures are well-documented and fresh in the mind of any Pakistan fan that has been watching cricket for the past few years. How much longer will we have to see the same clueless captaincy, tactical ignorance and mentally weak, showing zero spine type of cricket on the field before something changes?

 

[Rana]

I don't care about the Champions Cup. It's meaningless and unimportant.

There is enough evidence to suggest that Babar has been a complete failure as captain. Whatever future Shaheen had has been tainted by the PCB because of what they pulled and now his form has fallen off a cliff too. That only leaves behind Rizwan and based on the way Pakistan have been doing recently, they could do a whole lot worse than Rizwan.

You might not care but the idea behind this entire charade was to make Rizwan look like the best captain to Naqvi…

But then everything gets thrown out the window when you are basically exposed as nothing different to the others.


Honestly, no captain in this lot has been anything special. Afridi and Shadab have fought harder as leaders in comparison to Rizwan, Saud and Harris who had significantly better squads than theirs.

I have no shame in admitting that maybe Shadab is the best choice for leader in this lot, if only he can get his bowling right.

 

[Rana]

Give Rizwan

-the best opener
-the best middle order batters
-the best lower order
-proper seamers

He’s still mediocre when bowling first in the champion’s cup

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You might not care but the idea behind this entire charade was to make Rizwan look like the best captain to Naqvi…

But then everything gets thrown out the window when you are basically exposed as nothing different to the others.


Honestly, no captain in this lot has been anything special. Afridi and Shadab have fought harder as leaders in comparison to Rizwan, Saud and Harris who had significantly better squads than theirs.

I have no shame in admitting that maybe Shadab is the best choice for leader in this lot, if only he can get his bowling right.

I would have liked Shaheen Afridi to take over but after recent events (that are completely a creation of the PCB) I don't think he is in the right head-space. You can see it in his bowling. He is simply not the same bowler he used to be. And I think it has alot to do with the environment in the dressing room and the team. Shadab could have been a great captain but his form has been so rubbish that I don't think he even merits a place in the side anymore.

That only leaves behind Rizwan who has been Pakistan's best batsman in Tests and ODIs in the past year. Personality-wise he is calm, mature and capable of taking over captaincy without some kind of revolt breaking out in the team. Long term, you can look at players like Saud, Haris and even Shaheen once he regains his form.

 

[Rana]

That only leaves behind Rizwan

No it doesn’t

Stop limiting yourself or telling yourself that you are limited. It’s a false mindset.

You all limited yourself by saying Pakistan doesn’t have better players than Babar and Rizwan so that’s why they are undroppable. This false narrative was being pushed for ages….


There have been PLENTY of players who have shown in the same competition that they are willing to perform and step up in the same batting positions, and look far better than those two. So stop making things up

 

[mominsaigol]

No it doesn’t

Stop limiting yourself or telling yourself that you are limited. It’s a false mindset.

You all limited yourself by saying Pakistan doesn’t have better players than Babar and Rizwan so that’s why they are undroppable. This false narrative was being pushed for ages….


There have been PLENTY of players who have shown in the same competition that they are willing to perform and step up in the same batting positions, and look far better than those two. So stop making things up

In 2018 pakistan reached no 1 rank by beating full strength Australia twice. That squad did not include babar or rizwan. Oh wait I forgot, it only featured rizwan in the final at no 4 and he flopped

 

[Rana]

It’s a fair argument

Pakistan has massively declined since we were told ONLY RIZWAN IS AWESOME.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It’s a fair argument

Pakistan has massively declined since we were told ONLY RIZWAN IS AWESOME.

How so? Cricket is a team sport. However bad or good a player may be, a team's performance over a certain period of time (good or bad) cannot be completely attributed to them. Especially when that player is not even in a key leadership/decision-making position like being the captain.

 

[Rana]

How so? Cricket is a team sport. However bad or good a player may be, a team's performance over a certain period of time (good or bad) cannot be completely attributed to them. Especially when that player is not even in a key leadership/decision-making position like being the captain.

You can absolve all blame from him now, and repeat this cycle as much as you like going forward for others that you people will support in an unjust manner as you have done with him.

The truth is, Pakistan was shaped to accommodate him at all costs since Wasim Khan got a hold of things with his key influencers. The results are here for everyone to see now. Deny it all you want, I won’t let anyone forget.

 

[Devadwal]

Doesn't matter who is captain because Pakistan is a medicore team.

 

[RidiculousMan]

I don't understand why not Rizwan. He's a permanent part of your limited overs team. Has shown he's a better captain than Babar. Moreover Babar could focus on his batting that way.

 

[Rana]

He's a permanent part of your limited overs team

Why should he be? What’s so permanent about him?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

King Karle ga don't worry

 

[RyanRyan10]

Doesn't matter who is captain because Pakistan is a medicore team.

average team can become above average with better strategies and can turn below average with poor strategies.

 

[adi_62941]

PCB is trying to diminish the power politics in team by retaining babar and shan. They want to give strong message to all players involved in politics and off field negotiations that captains cannot be changed by losing matches.
Rizwan or babar both are same coins with different sides. Rizwan captaincy looked awful under pressure.

 

[Rana]

PCB is trying to diminish the power politics in team by retaining babar and shan. They want to give strong message to all players involved in politics and off field negotiations that captains cannot be changed by losing matches.
Rizwan or babar both are same coins with different sides. Rizwan captaincy looked awful under pressure.

But Rizwan’s fast hand movements and running to the boundary makes him look proactive

 

[TheSultan]

The question Pakistan need to ask themselves is how long will they keep reinforcing a failure? How many ICC tournaments? Under Babar we have already had 4. The failures are well-documented and fresh in the mind of any Pakistan fan that has been watching cricket for the past few years. How much longer will we have to see the same clueless captaincy, tactical ignorance and mentally weak, showing zero spine type of cricket on the field before something changes?

I completely agree with all of this. But the solution is not Rizwan.

Rizwan has been part of the problem of the status quo. You make Rizwan captain you’ll get the same thing you’re getting with Babar.

You’ll get the same “anchor” tactics. Same back slapping the opposition. Same cake cutting, same mediocre mindset.

 

[ads101]

I completely agree with all of this. But the solution is not Rizwan.

Rizwan has been part of the problem of the status quo. You make Rizwan captain you’ll get the same thing you’re getting with Babar.

You’ll get the same “anchor” tactics. Same back slapping the opposition. Same cake cutting, same mediocre mindset.

There are differences. Rizwan prioritises his fitness, even guys who aren’t fans knows he tries in that area. This is in contrast with Babar or Sarfraz. So at least he will set an example there. Their style of captaincy isn’t the same, Rizwan’s a lot more proactive and he is more tactically astute than Babar. Rizwan is a limited talent who tries his best to maximise his ability. Babar is the opposite, perhaps our greatest batting talent ever, which is why we get frustrated thinking he isn’t performing to his full potential.

Both Rizwan and Babar are similar in the way they play as anchors. You’re still going to get the same build a platform mentality. But I think there’s enough differences to make Rizwan captain if the choice is only between those two.

Some succeed in some parts of good mentality, in other parts they fail. There’s no one who has all of the qualities plays aggressive, performs to a high standard in all facets of their game and can lead from example, leads with fitness, tactically astute.

I probably would have gone with Imad captain in the past a few years ago, just to see and experiment with someone totally different. But it’s too late realistically now. Shadab might have been a good choice a few years ago before his form declined, especially given he’s part of IU which run their team a little different to other squads.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You can absolve all blame from him now, and repeat this cycle as much as you like going forward for others that you people will support in an unjust manner as you have done with him.

The truth is, Pakistan was shaped to accommodate him at all costs since Wasim Khan got a hold of things with his key influencers. The results are here for everyone to see now. Deny it all you want, I won’t let anyone forget.

You can keep placing an inflated amount of importance on individuals. But if you really want to analyze things you need look at structures. This idea that XYZ is responsible for everything bad in our cricket is simply a nonsensical way of looking at things.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I completely agree with all of this. But the solution is not Rizwan.

Rizwan has been part of the problem of the status quo. You make Rizwan captain you’ll get the same thing you’re getting with Babar.

You’ll get the same “anchor” tactics. Same back slapping the opposition. Same cake cutting, same mediocre mindset.

If you think anyone can come in and change the culture completely then I don't know what to tell you. Things like culture don't change overnight. To bring change you first need to recognize that something is wrong, which these guys don't seem to.

As far as as the captaincy is concerned, I don't see you suggesting anyone better. Probably because there isn't anyone else.

 

[Rana]

You can keep placing an inflated amount of importance on individuals. But if you really want to analyze things you need look at structures. This idea that XYZ is responsible for everything bad in our cricket is simply a nonsensical way of looking at things.

A nonsensical way of looking at things because you like XYZ?

Surely you wouldn’t preach considering how your bias is exposed in the pant v Rizwan thread

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

A nonsensical way of looking at things because you like XYZ?

Surely you wouldn’t preach considering how your bias is exposed in the pant v Rizwan thread

That's a thread about who is the better player. It's not a thread about what's wrong with Pakistan cricket? Also I don't see things in black and white like you. I can recognize players when they play well or prove me wrong. Which is more than I can say about you...

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

A nonsensical way of looking at things because you like XYZ?

Surely you wouldn’t preach considering how your bias is exposed in the pant v Rizwan thread

You of all people should be the last person to talk about "bias" lol

 

[msb314]

The question Pakistan need to ask themselves is how long will they keep reinforcing a failure? How many ICC tournaments? Under Babar we have already had 4. The failures are well-documented and fresh in the mind of any Pakistan fan that has been watching cricket for the past few years. How much longer will we have to see the same clueless captaincy, tactical ignorance and mentally weak, showing zero spine type of cricket on the field before something changes?

I still do not understand this mindset of judging captains by the performance of the team in ICC events.

Was Wasim Akram a bad captain for losing 1996 QF and botching the 1999 Final?

No by all means he was a great captain..

Was Inzy a bad captain for losing 2004 CT, 2006 CT and 2007 WC?

No he was in fact one of the best captains we ever had in LOI and Tests

Was Shoaib Malik also a bad captain for botching the 2007 WorldT20 final?

No he had a lot of potential and should have been given a much longer rope as captain..

The point is you can’t pin the blame on the captain everytime. Ultimately the quality of the team will reflect if you win ICC tournaments or not.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

You just know PCB is going to do something wild, probably give Babar the test captaincy back and bring Masood as the White ball captain.

 

[msb314]

I still do not understand this mindset of judging captains by the performance of the team in ICC events.

Was Wasim Akram a bad captain for losing 1996 QF and botching the 1999 Final?

No by all means he was a great captain..

Was Inzy a bad captain for losing 2004 CT, 2006 CT and 2007 WC?

No he was in fact one of the best captains we ever had in LOI and Tests

Was Shoaib Malik also a bad captain for botching the 2007 WorldT20 final?

No he had a lot of potential and should have been given a much longer rope as captain..

The point is you can’t pin the blame on the captain everytime. Ultimately the quality of the team will reflect if you win ICC tournaments or not.

I still consider Ganguly as GOAT captain despite the fact that he did not win a damn trophy for India..

Got close in 2003 WC Final and 2004 Asia Cup but still his trophy cabinet was empty. Do not count the “shared” 2002 CT lol

 

[shamaan]

There are no alternatives. Burdening a WK/BAT with captaincy rarely works.

It's not working for Buttler, didn't work for Sarfaraz or anyone else really. Dhoni was an exception for a few years .

And apart from Babar and Rizwan there are no real options.

Rizwan is already captaining is psl side and domestic side.

 

[gazza619]

You just know PCB is going to do something wild, probably give Babar the test captaincy back and bring Masood as the White ball captain.

well if someone’s wish comes true we might even see Asif Ali as captain

 

[Rana]

You just know PCB is going to do something wild, probably give Babar the test captaincy back and bring Masood as the White ball captain.

Babar himself ran away from Test captaincy

He wanted to run away from the Australia series all together

 

[YousafTheBeast]

well if someone’s wish comes true we might even see Asif Ali as captain

We might actually beat USA with him as captain

 

[Rana]

We might actually beat USA with him as captain

@gazza619 hun araam eh?

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Babar himself ran away from Test captaincy

He wanted to run away from the Australia series all together

Babar is a strange man, he might take the captaincy for the England series before retiring a year later to focus on LOI.

 

[Rana]

That's a thread about who is the better player. It's not a thread about what's wrong with Pakistan cricket? Also I don't see things in black and white like you. I can recognize players when they play well or prove me wrong. Which is more than I can say about you...

You recognise Rizwan is better than Pant? Says a lot about your ability to recognise things.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I still do not understand this mindset of judging captains by the performance of the team in ICC events.

Was Wasim Akram a bad captain for losing 1996 QF and botching the 1999 Final?

No by all means he was a great captain..

Was Inzy a bad captain for losing 2004 CT, 2006 CT and 2007 WC?

No he was in fact one of the best captains we ever had in LOI and Tests

Was Shoaib Malik also a bad captain for botching the 2007 WorldT20 final?

No he had a lot of potential and should have been given a much longer rope as captain..

The point is you can’t pin the blame on the captain everytime. Ultimately the quality of the team will reflect if you win ICC tournaments or not.

How was Wasim Akram a good captain? He had a great team, sure. But during his tenure the Pakistan dressing room was rife with politics, match-fixing allegations while and his relationship with Waqar is fairly well-documented. Have you forgotten the Qayyum report? Wasim failed in nearly every metric. When you consider the team he had and what he achieved, his run was a colossal failure. Especially because of the longstanding problems it created in Pakistan cricket.

Inzi's time as captain was a period of relative stability for Pakistan cricket. But he was not a great captain by any stretch of the imagination. He was the best Pakistan had at that time. And his role in letting this Tableeghi Jamaat stuff take over the team culture is something that is hard to forget when talking about his captaincy.

Shoaib Malik was an awful captain. There are no two ways about it.

If you want to talk about great Pakistan captains. Here are the names you should be mentioning: Abdul Hafeez Kardar, Mushtaq Mohammad, Imran Khan. End of list.

And yes, that is how it generally goes in sports. What you achieve as captain has a big role in solidifying your legacy. You could be a tactical genius but if your team is losing matches and winning nothing then no one is going to remember you.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You recognise Rizwan is better than Pant? Says a lot about your ability to recognise things.

Didn't you make a thread about how Asif Ali should be captain? Again, you should be the last person to be questioning other people's opinions.

 

[Rana]

Didn't you make a thread about how Asif Ali should be captain? Again, you should be the last person to be questioning other people's opinions.

Yeah I did, and as pointed out….we wouldn’t have lost to USA with him captain.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yeah I did, and as pointed out….we wouldn’t have lost to USA with him captain.

Good to know you have such a high standard of success!

 

[Rana]

Good to know you have such a high standard of success!

Of course I do. I back players who save your backsides when the chips are seriously down. Unlike you people who can’t be grateful to those who have saved the backsides of your 110 sr in the powerplay merchants


Besharam log

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I still consider Ganguly as GOAT captain despite the fact that he did not win a damn trophy for India..

Got close in 2003 WC Final and 2004 Asia Cup but still his trophy cabinet was empty. Do not count the “shared” 2002 CT lol

Ganguly led India to one of their greatest test series victories ever when India beat Australia 2-1 at home in 2001, which included the infamous Kolkata test where India went on to win after following on. He also led them to their first ever test series victory in Pakistan. And captained India to a 1-1 draw in Australia, which in 2003/04 was simply unheard of considering how great Australia were back then.

In ODIs, the 2002 NatWest Series and the Champions Trophy were significant achievements.

Ganguly was from a rare breed of captains who not only achieved a great deal but also changed the culture and the way that India played cricket. All while unearthing, giving consistent chances to players who went on to form the backbone of India's side for the next decade.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Of course I do. I back players who save your backsides when the chips are seriously down. Unlike you people who can’t be grateful to those who have saved the backsides of your 110 sr in the powerplay merchants


Besharam log

Grow up mate. Your obsession with Rizwan is unhealthy. We are past the point of laughing at it now. It's just sad to see someone be this obsessed with a cricket player.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Wouldn't be surprised one bit if the rumours were true
They talk big about 'Major Surgery' yet the hospital hasn't even been constructed

When surgeon himself needs a surgery so what can we even complain about? lol

 

[msb314]

How was Wasim Akram a good captain? He had a great team, sure. But during his tenure the Pakistan dressing room was rife with politics, match-fixing allegations while and his relationship with Waqar is fairly well-documented. Have you forgotten the Qayyum report? Wasim failed in nearly every metric. When you consider the team he had and what he achieved, his run was a colossal failure. Especially because of the longstanding problems it created in Pakistan cricket.

Inzi's time as captain was a period of relative stability for Pakistan cricket. But he was not a great captain by any stretch of the imagination. He was the best Pakistan had at that time. And his role in letting this Tableeghi Jamaat stuff take over the team culture is something that is hard to forget when talking about his captaincy.

Shoaib Malik was an awful captain. There are no two ways about it.

If you want to talk about great Pakistan captains. Here are the names you should be mentioning: Abdul Hafeez Kardar, Mushtaq Mohammad, Imran Khan. End of list.

And yes, that is how it generally goes in sports. What you achieve as captain has a big role in solidifying your legacy. You could be a tactical genius but if your team is losing matches and winning nothing then no one is going to remember you.

You make some good points but let me address the ones I disagree with..

Wasim Akram was a tactically astute captain and led the team well as the ATG fast bowler that everyone respected (except Waqar..). Also disagree he had a great team since by 1999 our batting was suspect.

Inzy was a good captain. His team were an absolute beast in Asian conditions and he really developed a lot of the younger players under him like YK, Salman Butt Shoaib Malik, Akmal. YK of course became a ATG himself later on bu his career really kicked off under Inzy’s captaincy. But as I pointed we failed in every ICC / ACC tournament under him. Hard to pinpoint the Tableeghi culture to him since the background behind that is beyond the scope of this thread..

Shoaib Malik could have been a great captain. He was earmarked by Bob Woolmer and Geoff Lawson to lead our team one day but sadly our culture just doesn’t allow it.. Razzaq, MoYo in particular I know were not too happy with Malik becoming captain.. his trouble was he was not an automatic starter in Tests but only captained one test series (against India in 2007). His capital y saw us reach the 2007 WorldT20 final, win kitply cup but yes agree not reaching Asia cup final at home in 2008 was disappointing..

Had to compare AHK and MM when they never played in ICC tournaments of course..

Don’t know stats but I’m pretty sure both of them did not had a great Test record since we were a mediocre Test team in the 1950’s and 1960’s.

Fully agree IK is also an ATG Test / ODI Captain. Wonderful leader but I always argue he fluked his way to the 1992 WC trophy

 

[Rana]

Grow up mate. Your obsession with Rizwan is unhealthy. We are past the point of laughing at it now. It's just sad to see someone be this obsessed with a cricket player.

When was it ever supposed to be funny? If you found it funny, your cricket life is a comedy itself if that’s the case. I can see how things pan out for you guys, and then the lols I have as a result.

 

[TheSultan]

If you think anyone can come in and change the culture completely then I don't know what to tell you. Things like culture don't change overnight. To bring change you first need to recognize that something is wrong, which these guys don't seem to.

As far as as the captaincy is concerned, I don't see you suggesting anyone better. Probably because there isn't anyone else.

Nobody can change the culture completely, but a change is required. I’d put the first guy on the team sheet as captain - and that’s Fakhar.

Rizwan shouldn’t even be in the team. I’d have Haris in there and make him vice captain.

 

[shamaan]

Rizwan should be made captain only if he bats at 6 in odis.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Rizwan should be made captain only if he bats at 6 in odis.

With such a pathetic team even if you make Imran Khan captain again, he wouldn’t be able to win a single game.

 

[Rana]

Rizwan should be made captain only if he bats at 6 in odis.

That’s against the rules of his planet

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Rizwan as captain, lol.

Do we want 10 players falling down and grimacing after every shot as if the entire pain of the world is on their shoulders?

If you wanted to make a comedy, Rizwan would be the first name on the list.

Cricket?

Bloke is a fraud who plays for his milestones while deliberately falling down a few times when he reaches near his 50 or 100.

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar azam has been confirmed to continue leading the side. Confirmed in sports central @Rana

 

[BouncerGuy]

I will not be surprised at all. PCB has a habit of making such loose decisions that make no sense so carry on PCB.

Babar himself needs to let go of this burden that is bringing nothing but pain and chaos.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Nobody can change the culture completely, but a change is required. I’d put the first guy on the team sheet as captain - and that’s Fakhar.

Rizwan shouldn’t even be in the team. I’d have Haris in there and make him vice captain.

Fakhar can only play white-ball cricket. On top of that he is 34.

Why shouldn't Rizwan be in the team? He has been Pakistan's best batter in Tests and ODIs in the past year.

 

[aukhan]

Great decision. We are not winning the CT 2025 anyway, this would be another embarrassing tournament under Babar, and he will face criticism from all corners again. I’m sharpening my knives.

King will be rightfully criticized and abused all over social media after another failed showing.

 

[mominsaigol]

Nobody can change the culture completely, but a change is required. I’d put the first guy on the team sheet as captain - and that’s Fakhar.

Rizwan shouldn’t even be in the team. I’d have Haris in there and make him vice captain.

Fakhar should not he captain. He's like saeed Anwar, a good player but a crap captain.

We need someone who's willing to take the mantle and be aggressive, Muhammad haris isn't a bad choice but his own form is lacking, but atleast he understands captaincy and taking captaincy would force him to play fc and test where he can improve as a player

And a new management is needed, one free from naqvi, misbah and the rest of the lot.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You make some good points but let me address the ones I disagree with..

Wasim Akram was a tactically astute captain and led the team well as the ATG fast bowler that everyone respected (except Waqar..). Also disagree he had a great team since by 1999 our batting was suspect.

Inzy was a good captain. His team were an absolute beast in Asian conditions and he really developed a lot of the younger players under him like YK, Salman Butt Shoaib Malik, Akmal. YK of course became a ATG himself later on bu his career really kicked off under Inzy’s captaincy. But as I pointed we failed in every ICC / ACC tournament under him. Hard to pinpoint the Tableeghi culture to him since the background behind that is beyond the scope of this thread..

Shoaib Malik could have been a great captain. He was earmarked by Bob Woolmer and Geoff Lawson to lead our team one day but sadly our culture just doesn’t allow it.. Razzaq, MoYo in particular I know were not too happy with Malik becoming captain.. his trouble was he was not an automatic starter in Tests but only captained one test series (against India in 2007). His capital y saw us reach the 2007 WorldT20 final, win kitply cup but yes agree not reaching Asia cup final at home in 2008 was disappointing..

Had to compare AHK and MM when they never played in ICC tournaments of course..

Don’t know stats but I’m pretty sure both of them did not had a great Test record since we were a mediocre Test team in the 1950’s and 1960’s.

Fully agree IK is also an ATG Test / ODI Captain. Wonderful leader but I always argue he fluked his way to the 1992 WC trophy

Kardar led Pakistan to a test match victory against England in only their second series ever. The series which ended up being a draw was nothing short of a monumental achievement for the time. Especially for a team that had just started playing test cricket, playing against a team that was arguably the best in the world at the time. For context, between 1951-58, England went unbeaten for 14 straight series. And Kardar had a massive role as leader and captain in building that rookie team, out of whom Kardar and Fazal Mahmood were pretty much the only ones who had played professional cricket before playing for Pakistan. Kardar had even played for India pre-partition. People don't realise how massive that test win and series draw was. You can't analyze it from the lens of modern day.

I think Pakistan had a pretty good batting line-up back then. Saeed Anwar, Ijaz, Inzi. Yousuf had come into the side by then. They had a bunch of all-rounders like Razzaq, Afridi, Azhar, who were all proper all-rounders. Even Wasim and Moin were fairly handy with the bat down the order. Pakistan had one of the most well-balanced sides in the format. For me, Pakistan were the second best team at the 1999 WC after South Africa.

IIRC Pakistan lost their first ever series at home to India under Inzamam's captaincy. There were also other notable failures like the tours of England, Australia, South Africa. Failure to win a series in West Indies and ofcourse the 2007 World Cup. It was a period of relative stability only if you compare it to the turbulence of previous and future eras. While I wouldn't call his run as captain a failure, it wasn't a success either. And the Tableeghi stuff is a big part of it because it had a massive effect on our team culture and Inzamam had a big role in encouraging it.

Well alot of things could and should have happened. Before Malik, Younis was seen as the successor to Inzamam. He had even been groomed for the role. But it didn't happen. And while the unfortunate events in Pakistan cricket at the time had a big impact on things, Malik has to take some responsibility himself too. He was described as "aloof", and a person who kept more to himself, rather then someone who was especially egreat at bringing people together or inspiring the team. Everything I have read about his captaincy tells me he was thoroughly unequipped for the role at that stage of his career.

 

[Rana]

Babar azam has been confirmed to continue leading the side. Confirmed in sports central @Rana

Welcome Zimbaway!

 

[TheSultan]

Fakhar can only play white-ball cricket. On top of that he is 34.

Why shouldn't Rizwan be in the team? He has been Pakistan's best batter in Tests and ODIs in the past year.

We’re only talking white ball here. Fakhar is 34 yes, but I’ve already given you a successor too as vice captain.

Rizwan has had his shot at white ball. We have twisted and turned for all his whims and fantasies since 2021. He has failed whenever it has mattered. It’s time to try something different. You’re whole post that I initially responded to (which might I add was one of your best posts ever) based on the failures of the last few years. Rizwan was core to that.

He had his shot. Had everything stacked in his favour, and failed. Time to move on.

 

[TheSultan]

Babar azam has been confirmed to continue leading the side. Confirmed in sports central @Rana

We do love torture don’t we.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

We’re only talking white ball here. Fakhar is 34 yes, but I’ve already given you a successor too as vice captain.

Rizwan has had his shot at white ball. We have twisted and turned for all his whims and fantasies since 2021. He has failed whenever it has mattered. It’s time to try something different. You’re whole post that I initially responded to (which might I add was one of your best posts ever) based on the failures of the last few years. Rizwan was core to that.

He had his shot. Had everything stacked in his favour, and failed. Time to move on.

Okay fair enough. I agree with you that Fakhar would be a better choice as white-ball captain atleast. Don't think Pakistan have the guts to go with him but he would be a better choice than Rizwan. But I don't understand why Rizwan is to blame for Pakistan's failures, espeically in the longer formats? T20s sure. He shouldn't even be in the T20 team anymore. But he was our best batter at the ODI WC. He played one of the best WC knocks ever by a Pak better against Sri Lanka in a high-pressure run chase. In Tests, he has scored runs whenever he has played. He has experience captaining Pak U-25, Pak A, Multan Sultans and KPK and he's won trophies with them

 

[Rana]

Why shouldn't Rizwan be in the team? He has been Pakistan's best batter in Tests and ODIs in the past year.

T20s sure. He shouldn't even be in the T20 team anymore

That’s 2 contradictory statements by you and I’ll prove it. On what basis do you think Rizwan shouldn’t be in the T20 team anymore, but on the other hand you argue Rizwan has been Pakistan’s best ODI and Test batter. What counts as performance that makes you the “best” in a format but not good enough to play another according to you?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That’s 2 contradictory statements by you and I’ll prove it. On what basis do you think Rizwan shouldn’t be in the T20 team anymore, but on the other hand you argue Rizwan has been Pakistan’s best ODI and Test batter. What counts as performance that makes you the “best” in a format but not good enough to play another according to you?

Umm because they are three different formats? Do you seriously not have the brain-cells to figure that out? In the last one year Rizwan has scored 395 runs in ODIs at 65.8. And 487 in Tests at 69.6. These are the most by a Pakistani batter in those two formats in the last one year.

What makes his performance in T20s stand-out by comparison in a negative way is his poor strike-rate, lack of power-hitting ability, and his performance in key matches like the India and US games where the onus was on him to score big or win the match. In T20s the dynamics are very different as compared to other formats. If you are opening the batting you have a greater responsibility as compared to other batters. Rizwan failed at that time and time again over the past 3 years. If I were to select one anchor in that T20 team, I would select Babar over Rizwan.

This is not the case for his performances in Tests and ODIs. Infact his performances in ODIs have been most impressive because he has gone from averaging 32 or 33 nearly a year ago to averaging over 40 at a healthy SR of close to 90. His century against Sri Lanka in the WC was also one of the finest knocks I have seen by a Pakistan batter in a high-pressure run chase. Based on current form, he is Pakistan's best batter in Tests and ODIs right now.

 

[Rana]

Umm because they are three different formats? Do you seriously not have the brain-cells to figure that out? In the last one year Rizwan has scored 395 runs in ODIs at 65.8. And 487 in Tests at 69.6. These are the most by a Pakistani batter in those two formats in the last one year.

What makes his performance in T20s stand-out by comparison in a negative way is his poor strike-rate, lack of power-hitting ability, and his performance in key matches like the India and US games where the onus was on him to score big or win the match. In T20s the dynamics are very different as compared to other formats. If you are opening the batting you have a greater responsibility as compared to other batters. Rizwan failed at that time and time again over the past 3 years. If I were to select one anchor in that T20 team, I would select Babar over Rizwan.

This is not the case for his performances in Tests and ODIs. Infact his performances in ODIs have been most impressive because he has gone from averaging 32 or 33 nearly a year ago to averaging over 40 at a healthy SR of close to 90. His century against Sri Lanka in the WC was also one of the finest knocks I have seen by a Pakistan batter in a high-pressure run chase. Based on current form, he is Pakistan's best batter in Tests and ODIs right now.

You see, that’s your issue. I’m pretty sure I can dig up posts from a year or so ago where you would be hyping up Rizwan’s average of 50 in T20s as the sole reason he should be playing T20 and opening for Pakistan. Eventually, you have had to reluctantly admit that Rizwan isn’t good enough or the right player for T20 (although I am 100% sure you will backtrack on this at the very next opportunity when Rizwan scores a meaningless 50 off 45 balls as an opener).

These stats you push in his case for ODI and Tests,,,,yeah I’m pretty sure you will throw them out too in a year or so when arguing “Rizwan shouldn’t be in the ODI squad”.

It will happen.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You see, that’s your issue. I’m pretty sure I can dig up posts from a year or so ago where you would be hyping up Rizwan’s average of 50 in T20s as the sole reason he should be playing T20 and opening for Pakistan. Eventually, you have had to reluctantly admit that Rizwan isn’t good enough or the right player for T20 (although I am 100% sure you will backtrack on this at the very next opportunity when Rizwan scores a meaningless 50 off 45 balls as an opener).

These stats you push in his case for ODI and Tests,,,,yeah I’m pretty sure you will throw them out too in a year or so when arguing “Rizwan shouldn’t be in the ODI squad”.

It will happen.

I'm man enough to admit I was wrong about Rizwan in T20s. Too bad you are not man enough to admit that Rizwan has been brilliant in Tests and ODIs as of late.

But yeah, by all means go ahead predicting the future. I'm sure you will as right as you were when you said Asif Ali should be captain.

 

[Rana]

I'm man enough to admit I was wrong about Rizwan in T20s. Too bad you are not man enough to admit that Rizwan has been brilliant in Tests and ODIs as of late.

But yeah, by all means go ahead predicting the future. I'm sure you will as right as you were when you said Asif Ali should be captain.

If you had to pick one of two players to lead Pakistan in T20s out of Asif Ali and Rizwan, who would you honestly pick?