Would Lionel Messi be the undisputed GOAT 🐐 if Gonzalo Higuain had converted in WC and Copa finals?

[Slog]

Would Lionel Messi be the undisputed GOAT if Gonzalo Higuain had converted in WC and Copa finals?

Discuss.

 

[Mamoon]

He already is. The most complete player of all time bar none.

His 2014 World Cup was more impressive and credible than Ronaldo’s 2016 Euro. He won the Golden Boot unlike Ronaldo, who wasn’t even on the pitch when Eder scored that fluke winner.

However, I agree that Higuain the great choker has cost Messi a World Cup.

Nonetheless, most neutrals, managers, players etc. recognize that Messi is better than Ronaldo and the GOAT. Only Man United, Madrid and now Juventus fans disagree.

Had Messi won the World Cup, Ronaldo bhakhts would have still found a way to put him down and make Ronaldo superior.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Messi has never scored a single goal in a knockout game of the World Cup.

This is why Maradonna is GOAT. Arguably Maradonna played in a weaker time but still won the World Cup for his team. He also had just as much skill, if not more than Messi.

 

[thelandofthebravepeople]

He already is. The most complete player of all time bar none.

His 2014 World Cup was more impressive and credible than Ronaldo’s 2016 Euro. He won the Golden Boot unlike Ronaldo, who wasn’t even on the pitch when Eder scored that fluke winner.

However, I agree that Higuain the great choker has cost Messi a World Cup.

Nonetheless, most neutrals, managers, players etc. recognize that Messi is better than Ronaldo and the GOAT. Only Man United, Madrid and now Juventus fans disagree.

Had Messi won the World Cup, Ronaldo bhakhts would have still found a way to put him down and make Ronaldo superior.

Messi played well in the initial rounds against the likes of Iran etc. In the knockout games their best player was by far Di Maria.

The decision to reward Messi with best player of WC was a farce.

 

[Mamoon]

Messi played well in the initial rounds against the likes of Iran etc. In the knockout games their best player was by far Di Maria.

The decision to reward Messi with best player of WC was a farce.

He didn’t score in the knockouts, but he was still their best player. He was MoM against Switzerland in the R16 and assisted Di Maria’s goal. In the QF against Belgium, he produced another quality performance.

He wasn’t at his best in the SF and Final, but overall, he was the best player in the tournament and fully deserved to win the Golden Ball.

There was nothing farcical about it by any measure. Germany were comfortably the best team in the tournament and not dependent on 1-2 individuals.

Argentina though had no chance of make the final without Messi.

 

[Hasan123]

I consider him the GOAT but Higuain did cost him World Cup glory.

 

[Abdullah]

I don't care , but he has not done anything in CL knockouts for a few years against top team. ( United is not a top team)
Need to see it next week!!

 

[finalfantasy7]

He already is. The most complete player of all time bar none.

His 2014 World Cup was more impressive and credible than Ronaldo’s 2016 Euro. He won the Golden Boot unlike Ronaldo, who wasn’t even on the pitch when Eder scored that fluke winner.

However, I agree that Higuain the great choker has cost Messi a World Cup.

Nonetheless, most neutrals, managers, players etc. recognize that Messi is better than Ronaldo and the GOAT. Only Man United, Madrid and now Juventus fans disagree.

Had Messi won the World Cup, Ronaldo bhakhts would have still found a way to put him down and make Ronaldo superior.

Who says juve fans believe Ronaldo is the goat.

I believe most people in football still says its Pele / Maradona

 

[Mamoon]

Who says juve fans believe Ronaldo is the goat.

I believe most people in football still says its Pele / Maradona

Perhaps you are right, I was mainly talking about the new Juventus fans who started supporting the club because of Ronaldo, but then again, they are not true Juventus fans anyway.

Nonetheless, most neutrals accept Messi as the GOAT.

 

[Azzurri]

Perhaps you are right, I was mainly talking about the new Juventus fans who started supporting the club because of Ronaldo, but then again, they are not true Juventus fans anyway.

Nonetheless, most neutrals accept Messi as the GOAT.

Most neutral is a subjective term. As mentioned above GOAT has to be Pele or Maradona. Messi at best is at the same level as ronaldo

 

[Mamoon]

Most neutral is a subjective term. As mentioned above GOAT has to be Pele or Maradona. Messi at best is at the same level as ronaldo

It is subjective at an individual level, but most neutral observers agree that Messi is the greatest of them all.

 

[Badsha]

NO.
Messi has bottled it at the biggest stage way too many times.

It's funny people mention Higuin missing goals but not that Argentina wouldnt be in the world cup is Higuin hadnt scored in the qualifiers? Where was Messi then?

 

[uberkoen]

It's shocking to me that people consider someone like Maradona to be GOAT but not Messi.

Maradona won Argentina a World cup by cheating and later failed a drug test for ephedrine doping.

Messi has scored more goals than Maradona whether you look at international games or league games. Messi has won more individual awards than Maradona and has helped his team to more cup/tournament wins than Maradona. Actually, there is no comparison. Messi has outscored Maradona in all departments statistically. The only reason Maradona gets mentioned as a GOAT and not Messi is because he cheated and drugged his way to a World Cup Win.

 

[Adijazz1706]

It's shocking to me that people consider someone like Maradona to be GOAT but not Messi.

Maradona won Argentina a World cup by cheating and later failed a drug test for ephedrine doping.

Messi has scored more goals than Maradona whether you look at international games or league games. Messi has won more individual awards than Maradona and has helped his team to more cup/tournament wins than Maradona. Actually, there is no comparison. Messi has outscored Maradona in all departments statistically. The only reason Maradona gets mentioned as a GOAT and not Messi is because he cheated and drugged his way to a World Cup Win.

Ephedrine was in '94, they won the WC in '86. Romario has more goals than Messi and won a WC, hence GOAT? Barcelona Messi is better than Argentina Messi due to Barca midfield and defence being miles better than Argentina midfield and defence, no way Messi takes Napoli to a Scudetto. Maradona got Napoli their only Scudetti ever as well as winning the UEFA Cup despite playing in the league where AC Milan won consecutive CLs defeating RMadrid 5-0 in the SFs

 

[Slog]

Ephedrine was in '94, they won the WC in '86. Romario has more goals than Messi and won a WC, hence GOAT? Barcelona Messi is better than Argentina Messi due to Barca midfield and defence being miles better than Argentina midfield and defence, no way Messi takes Napoli to a Scudetto. Maradona got Napoli their only Scudetti ever as well as winning the UEFA Cup despite playing in the league where AC Milan won consecutive CLs defeating RMadrid 5-0 in the SFs

No Xavi and Iniesta but hes having one of his best seasons ever

 

[Adijazz1706]

No Xavi and Iniesta but hes having one of his best seasons ever

Rakitic and Busquets are much better than Banega et al, also this is the first time Messi got past the CL QFs since Xavi left btw

 

[karthikc]

Higuain is the god of offside goals.

And maradona is the GOAT

 

[Mamoon]

Rakitic and Busquets are much better than Banega et al, also this is the first time Messi got past the CL QFs since Xavi left btw

Messi won Barcelona the 2014-15 Champions League and destroyed a peak Neuer in the process even though Xavi was on his last legs and started most of the big games on the bench. He literally had no contribution.

 

[Mamoon]

Ephedrine was in '94, they won the WC in '86. Romario has more goals than Messi and won a WC, hence GOAT? Barcelona Messi is better than Argentina Messi due to Barca midfield and defence being miles better than Argentina midfield and defence, no way Messi takes Napoli to a Scudetto. Maradona got Napoli their only Scudetti ever as well as winning the UEFA Cup despite playing in the league where AC Milan won consecutive CLs defeating RMadrid 5-0 in the SFs

You can’t really make these comparisons and come to these conclusions because football has changed drastically.

Maradona scored only 10 goals in Napoli’s successful league campaign, yet that was enough for them to win the title. Do you think in today’s football 10 goals by your star player be enough to win the title?

You put today’s Messi in that Napoli team and do you think he will only score 10 goals in 30 games?

Similarly, if Maradona plays for Napoli today, there is no way he can stop Juventus from winning the title.

The only thing Maradona has over Messi is his brilliant performances in World Cup knockouts. As an individual player, Messi is superior. Put them both in the same team and Messi will still look like the better player.

 

[Khan12]

Plus had messi the choker not gone missing in the big games too.

 

[IAJ]

I never like these GOAT tags as the game keep devoloping and you really can't compare players from different eras.

Messi and Ronaldo are great players and they have no competition from any other player.

You really don't have many superstars today than you had for instance in 90s. Every top team back then had a couple of really great players and I appreciate players like Zidane, the original Ronaldo, Van Basten, Zola, Gullit, Lothar Matheus Roberto Baggio, Boban, Totti, Stoichkow, Hagi, Baresi, Maldini, Beckham, Giggs, Laudrup Brothers, Figo, Rui Costa, Donadoni, Zanetti, Romario, Cafu to mention a few. They were really top players, but today if you mention WC players you only think about Messi and Ronaldo. They have no competition what so ever.


Of course the game has become faster now like all other games, but the players don't have good technique at all. The last 15 years apart from Messi and to some extent I haven't seen many players do extraordinary Things With the ball, heck you don't have many players who can take the free kick from 25 metres and get it over the wall and then dip it.

 

[WC-Passion]

You can’t really make these comparisons and come to these conclusions because football has changed drastically.

Maradona scored only 10 goals in Napoli’s successful league campaign, yet that was enough for them to win the title. Do you think in today’s football 10 goals by your star player be enough to win the title?

You put today’s Messi in that Napoli team and do you think he will only score 10 goals in 30 games?

Similarly, if Maradona plays for Napoli today, there is no way he can stop Juventus from winning the title.

The only thing Maradona has over Messi is his brilliant performances in World Cup knockouts. As an individual player, Messi is superior. Put them both in the same team and Messi will still look like the better player.

Messi is obviously the GOAT but saying Maradona couldn't help Napoli stop Juventus in the currently is rubbish. Last season under Sarri they nearly did it without any real world-class player (other than arguably Insigne) and if you add to Maradona to this team they would win the league as comfortably as Juventus did this year.

 

[Mamoon]

Messi is obviously the GOAT but saying Maradona couldn't help Napoli stop Juventus in the currently is rubbish. Last season under Sarri they nearly did it without any real world-class player (other than arguably Insigne) and if you add to Maradona to this team they would win the league as comfortably as Juventus did this year.

I am talking about “today’s” Napoli team, not the one under Sarri that finished on 86 and 91 points in successive seasons. They didn’t have a lot of world class players, but Sarri’s tactics brought the best out of nearly every player in the squad.

If you put Messi or Maradona or even Ronaldo and Neymar etc. in that Napoli side, surely they would have taken that team a notch above. That Napoli side lacked one brilliant individual player who could have won them an additional 10 points.

However, this season, Napoli are trailing Juventus by 20 points with 5 games to go, who have added Ronaldo without losing any of its key players (Higuain was not needed after signing Ronaldo).

Do you think Maradona can win this Napoli team 20+ points on his own? No he cannot. It will require a 2010-2011 Messi type season where he scored 50 league goals in 38 matches, and Maradona cannot dream of scoring that many goals even in the best team in the world.

 

[WC-Passion]

I am talking about “today’s” Napoli team, not the one under Sarri that finished on 86 and 91 points in successive seasons. They didn’t have a lot of world class players, but Sarri’s tactics brought the best out of nearly every player in the squad.

If you put Messi or Maradona or even Ronaldo and Neymar etc. in that Napoli side, surely they would have taken that team a notch above. That Napoli side lacked one brilliant individual player who could have won them an additional 10 points.

However, this season, Napoli are trailing Juventus by 20 points with 5 games to go, who have added Ronaldo without losing any of its key players (Higuain was not needed after signing Ronaldo).

Do you think Maradona can win this Napoli team 20+ points on his own? No he cannot. It will require a 2010-2011 Messi type season where he scored 50 league goals in 38 matches, and Maradona cannot dream of scoring that many goals even in the best team in the world.

The league position for Napoli is skewed badly this season for many reasons and yet they still will finish 2nd.

Ancelotti came in as a new manager, Jorginho left, they had a very tough UCL group and had to deal with the fact that their captain in Hamsik left for China. Give them another season and they would be able to adapt much more to the new style of play and personnel, and having Maradona would not only be a massive boost to the ability in the squad, but he was a leader and psychologically it'd make a big impact.

They would certainly win the league in my eyes. This deals with the main issue Napoli have which is that they don't have a leader or any players that are consistently reliable in crucial games.

I feel like Maradona would score 25-30 league goals at the very minimum in a team where Arkadiusz Milik is scoring 17 in 23 starts. Insigne, Mertens and Callejón would be also there to support out wide and would provide amazing service into the box for Maradona.

Not to mention the fact that a fully fit Ghoulam next season on the left supporting Insigne would definitely get the best out of him. Insigne got 8 goals and 11 assists last season and a lot of that was down to Ghoulam overlapping so Insigne could cut inside. To put into perspective, those numbers rival Hazard's numbers in Chelsea's 16/17 title winning campaign.

It just seems like to me that all those boosts would get them the +20 points needed. It's not illogical to think, I mean Chelsea went from 10th to 1st after signing Kante, Luiz and Alonso as key signings, I don't see how Napoli can't go from 2nd from 1st with Maradona.