Would Sachin Tendulkar have surpassed Don Bradman and Viv Richards if not for tennis elbow?

[Suleiman]

There is no misconception in it ... get over it and accept the reality that what SRT achieved is beyond reach and move on. Unless you think every TDH stands a chance of making 100 centuries !

That's what im trying to prove. We're on the same team.

Goldman Sach is a very special player. Most humble man in sports.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Unfortunately that point doesn't hold weight when you look at McGrath averages in subcontinent.

Infect it could be argued that Wasim didn't bowl well enough when conditions even suited him for instance Australia.

Yeah but he did not bowl in Asia as much as Wasim did. Also, Pakistan used to drop at least a couple of easy chances in every inning. Australians, on the other hand used to take some phenomenol catches.

 

[Bilal7]

McGrath - 563 wickets; Ave - 21.64; SR - 51.9



Akram - 414 wickets; Ave - 23.62; SR - 54.6



McGrath was not just better, but way better than Akram in every department of bowling in Tests.

Not really. Wasim had to bowl on the dead pitches of Pakistan for his home series while McGrath bowled in much better conditions for pace bowlers. There is a reason why Wasim is one of only three ATG bowlers to emerge from all of Asia, while McGrath is one of many to emerge from non-subcontinental countries.

 

[Sachin136]

Not really. Wasim had to bowl on the dead pitches of Pakistan for his home series while McGrath bowled in much better conditions for pace bowlers. There is a reason why Wasim is one of only three ATG bowlers to emerge from all of Asia, while McGrath is one of many to emerge from non-subcontinental countries.

If that is the case, why has Asia only produced four ATG batsmen while many more have come out of non-Asian teams?

Most players who we accept as ATGs are those who have performed everywhere, so how their home pitches are doesn't affect their stature.

 

[Hitman]

Not really. Wasim had to bowl on the dead pitches of Pakistan for his home series while McGrath bowled in much better conditions for pace bowlers. There is a reason why Wasim is one of only three ATG bowlers to emerge from all of Asia, while McGrath is one of many to emerge from non-subcontinental countries.

Yet McGrath averages much better than Akram with a far superior strike rate even outside Asia. Let's look at their averages and SR outside Asia -


McGrath - 21.16 (ave); SR - 50.9

Akram - 24.80 (ave); SR - 57

 

[Sin Nombre]

McGrath is easily the most underrated retired player on PP. Of course, a lot of it is to do with being better than his Pakistani contemporaries.

 

[Ankit007]

There were not many great bowlers when Bradman and perhaps Viv were there.... I would say in today's era as well there are not much of the tough bowlers. Sachin in his era has played against some great bowling of McGrath, Lee, Akhtar, Waseem , Waqar, Warne, Murli and many many more... And perhaps thats why I rate Sachin on par with Viv and Bradman but certainly not more than them.

Viv was all time best in ODIs with Sachin following
Bradman was all time best in test with Sachin following

Overall Sachin was the all time best ever considering both formats...

 

[Bilal7]

Yet McGrath averages much better than Akram with a far superior strike rate even outside Asia. Let's look at their averages and SR outside Asia -


McGrath - 21.16 (ave); SR - 50.9

Akram - 24.80 (ave); SR - 57

McGrath has ONE fifer in Asia. Wasim is the better bowler because he did better in the truly difficult conditions for pace bowlers. Just like how a batsman who does better in England and South Africa will be rated higher than one who does well in Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

 

[Bilal7]

McGrath is easily the most underrated retired player on PP. Of course, a lot of it is to do with being better than his Pakistani contemporaries.

Who have ten times the number of fifers in Asia?

 

[Bilal7]

If that is the case, why has Asia only produced four ATG batsmen while many more have come out of non-Asian teams?

Most players who we accept as ATGs are those who have performed everywhere, so how their home pitches are doesn't affect their stature.

Sachin, Miandad, Dravid, Gavasker, Sangakkara and potentially Younis Khan. Take any three non-subcon countries, to keep it fair, and there won't be too much of a difference.

If a player has played his domestic cricket in very difficult conditions and then continues on those same pitches throughout his international career, he deserves extra points than someone who has done marginally better in much easier conditions. Goes for any type of player.

 

[Bilal7]

There were not many great bowlers when Bradman and perhaps Viv were there.... I would say in today's era as well there are not much of the tough bowlers. Sachin in his era has played against some great bowling of McGrath, Lee, Akhtar, Waseem , Waqar, Warne, Murli and many many more... And perhaps thats why I rate Sachin on par with Viv and Bradman but certainly not more than them.

Viv was all time best in ODIs with Sachin following
Bradman was all time best in test with Sachin following

Overall Sachin was the all time best ever considering both formats...

Sachin never played Wasim and Waqar at their prime and Akhtar and Lee were hardly any better than the bowlers we've seen over the last six years or those that were there in Viv's time.

 

[Gilly]

McGrath has ONE fifer in Asia. Wasim is the better bowler because he did better in the truly difficult conditions for pace bowlers. Just like how a batsman who does better in England and South Africa will be rated higher than one who does well in Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

Only problem is Akram has poor results against Eng, SA and India whereas McGrath does well against everyone.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I repeat you'd have to be extremely biased to consider Wasim a better test bowler than McGrath.

The case is open and close shut.

The only case up for discussion is ODI's and that's about it.

People here don't like McGrath, because he was boring for most fans, while Wasim, Marshall were bowlers who created hullabaloo.

But cricket is not played on aesthetics.

At the end of the day, there is a clear difference. Wasim was not able to replicate his performances in Asia outside Asia. McGrath was able to replicate his in Asia.

And then in order to defend Wasim, the last resort is how many 5 fers.

Borderline ridiculous argument.

 

[Ankit007]

Sachin never played Wasim and Waqar at their prime and Akhtar and Lee were hardly any better than the bowlers we've seen over the last six years or those that were there in Viv's time.

He did. He has played vs Pakistan team of 90s and that was the time when Wasim and Waqar were at their prime.. Also McGrath...

 

[kingusama92]

Sachin in the 90s was as good as any test batsman to have played the game.

So yes, if somehow he'd managed to prolong this deep into the 00s, it would have become a no-doubter as to who the greatest test batsman of all time is.

 

[Chrish]

Sachin in the 90s was as good as any test batsman to have played the game.

So yes, if somehow he'd managed to prolong this deep into the 00s, it would have become a no-doubter as to who the greatest test batsman of all time is.

Still won't match Bradman..

 

[Bhaijaan]

Sachin is among the greatest ever especially because he defied tennis Elbow and poor genetics to become the best batsman in the world at the age of 36-38.

If he had the fitness of Kohli, Root, Ponting his output would have been surreal. Not that he didn’t work hard but it was clear he wasn’t a gifted athletecally. He has strong arms as he wielded one of the heaviest bats in his peak, was actually obsessed with adding more weight to his willow to the point the carpenter had to just glue a block of wood at the other end of his bat to add more weight. But overall his body wasn’t very supportive of excellence yet he want on to play so much cricket is a testament to his greatness.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Yes it's likely that his tennis elbow ultimately knocked 50 runs from his average.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It's very hard to say . Indian cricket was in a different place in the 90's

I still think his peak cost him.

Between Nov 95 and Jan 1999, be played a ridiculous 114 ODIs in just over a 3 year period.

Our fitness programmes were nothing compared to what they are now. The lack of an off season in 3 years meant that he was carrying excess weight by 1999. He was 80+ kg with his 5'5" frame.

He used to consistently pull short of a length ball with a technique that was very strenuous .

That back stress fracture was left undiagnosed and even misdiagnosed for quite some time and I don't think he was ever the same player after that.

 

[Bhaijaan]

The Tennis elbow wrecked his career at a time he should have taken it to another level

 

[mominsaigol]

The Tennis elbow wrecked his career at a time he should have taken it to another level

Better then Bradman and Viv in what regard?

In terms of averages and performance then He is already > Viv in odi and test cricket but far far far below Bradman in test cricket.

In terms of Impact then I highly doubt it. He is > viv in test though.

In test cricket Bradman is > Everyone in his era by all metrics. Sachin even before tennis elbow was matched in test cricket by many.

Throughout his career sachin has had many equals and superiors in test cricket. He has surpassed them because he remained a timeless classic while they lost form and fizzled out.

You can claim Sachin is Christopher reeve Superman but everyone else was David coremsweat, aka atm the hype around David is insane but reeves will always remain a timeless classic while David will fizzle out to some new actor 20 years down the line.

Case in point it is his consistency and longetivity that put him >. Bradman in the other hand was genuinely >>>>>>>>>>> everyone in his era. He didnt surpass them by outlasting them

Now when it comes to viv, Maybe but viv like sachin was unmatched in odi in his era, but tbf so was sachin?

In odi sachin is really good. Way better then he is tests by far. He, Kohli and Viv should be put in the same tier in odi. They are all 3 unmatched for their era.