Would've been a better player if Coach Arthur had trained me 10 years ago, says Sohail Khan

[Abdullah719]

Fast bowler Sohail Khan believes he would have been "a great player" if Head Coach Mickey Arthur had trained him 10 years ago.

During an interview with DawnNews on Friday, the pacer said that the head coach has been "tough" with him over the past three years; however, the strict training resulted in an improvement in his performance.

"It is Mickey who has polished me the most," he told DawnNews. "He has taught me how I should work for my comeback.”

He disagreed with Arthur's earlier statement that he was past his prime, saying that his only issue was a lack of fitness which he has overcome.

"My Yoyo test result is 19.1. This is why I made a comeback against the World XI," he said. He further said that there were players of his age in the current squad; therefore, that was not a problem.

In an interview on Thursday, the head coach had said that Sohail was a decade too old.

"If he [Sohail] had performed the way he is performing now 10 years ago, he would have been a great international player now," he told DawnNews, adding that since the squad now has young players in good form, trying to bring Sohail back would be a "waste of time".

Sohail claimed that he has been training to be able to play in all three formats of cricket, since a player cannot stick to one format in contemporary cricket.

"I want to prove myself like Misbahul Haq, Younis Khan, [Mohammad] Hafeez and Shoaib Malik and play longer,” he insisted.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1371136/w...rthur-had-trained-me-10-years-ago-sohail-khan

 

[Markhor]

Yet if you listen to some PP armchair pundits, Mickey Arthur is a clueless "con man" who's only here for his paycheck.

If only Arthur was Pakistan coach 10 years ago after Bob Woolmer.

 

[ManFan]

Poor SK. What a bowler and a clean striker of the ball too. Shame he was discarded into the wilderness for years.

 

[Syed1]

Team mein wapis anay ke liyay kitna makhan lagana parhta hai

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Sadly he is only good for t20s now

In Odis I doubt he has the fitness for 10 overs

 

[UN talkz]

What a talent... He is the example of Talent with performance

 

[mak36]

Yet if you listen to some PP armchair pundits, Mickey Arthur is a clueless "con man" who's only here for his paycheck.

If only Arthur was Pakistan coach 10 years ago after Bob Woolmer.

Don't forget the people who said MA was treating SK harshly and had a vendetta against him. The man himself seems to think otherwise...

 

[DRsohail]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] u were right about sohail...excellent tallent wasted and i again think Misbah has some shre in that.

 

[shaz619]

I'd want Mickey Arther to coach me as well, could do with a few wacks from his danda [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

The PCB has wasted a lot of time by giving amateur coaches like Waqar a long run. Whatmore is probably the only one who did okay besides Arthur.

 

[Hasan123]

Agree with Sohail. Under a pro coach at a younger age he would have done well and turned out to be a good asset in LO and tests.

 

[Markhor]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] u were right about sohail...excellent tallent wasted and i again think Misbah has some shre in that.

Why didn't legendary fast bowler Waqar persist with Sohail Khan to give him a proper run in his two stints as coach ? He was apparently the man who'd fix our fast bowling issues yet persisted with his pet projects like Wahab Riaz and Rahat Ali.

As Arthur said, its a shame the system has wasted players like Sohail Khan.

 

[Hasan123]

There a lot of Pakistan players who would have done well had Arthur been the coach early in there careers.

 

[Ahson8]

The PCB has wasted a lot of time by giving amateur coaches like Waqar a long run. Whatmore is probably the only one who did okay besides Arthur.

Waqar got the best out of our test team.

 

[DRsohail]

Why didn't legendary fast bowler Waqar persist with Sohail Khan to give him a proper run in his two stints as coach ? He was apparently the man who'd fix our fast bowling issues yet persisted with his pet projects like Wahab Riaz and Rahat Ali.

As Arthur said, its a shame the system has wasted players like Sohail Khan.

yes waqar also shares the blame.

 

[aloo paratha]

Sohail Khan was left out of the Pakistan side for too long. He should've never been dropped after his debut performance which was on a joke of a pitch back in 2009.

 

[Syed1]

Yet if you listen to some PP armchair pundits, Mickey Arthur is a clueless "con man" who's only here for his paycheck.

If only Arthur was Pakistan coach 10 years ago after Bob Woolmer.

Yeah Mickey Arthur is the best coach in the history of mankind

 

[hitthestump]

The guy runs out of breath after bowling 5 overs. You can't coach fitness, you can only work hard for it. Sohail showed up unfit series after series so i have no idea what he's on about here.

He's just another example of the excuse making culture that is hopefully on its way out of Pakistan with the new generation.

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] u were right about sohail...excellent tallent wasted and i again think Misbah has some shre in that.

I think, in his debut season at official 23, he made a record which was broken by Saad Altaf recently. I believe it was 7+9 wickets, but for over 170 or so. He was a fantastic prospect with every tool in it, sadly he debuted on a wicket, I would have sacked, no shoot the groundsmen for that painful experience and never got the backing there after. By the time he was called back (WC 2015), he was actually past the age at what Lillee, Marshall had retired from FC cricket. I think, they are quite right about the number also - 10 years.

His batting potential or lack of it is an intellectual problem - people around PAK team didn't believe that 8, 9, 10 & Jack can contribute with bat, otherwise not only Sohail, but Wahab, Gul, Yasir, Rehman, Amir also had excellent batting potential. They went to solve it other way, which sadly won't ever work. I give this example every time - give me two propositions - 1. Push hard to improve Amir, Hasan, Yasir's batting so that they can reach to a 15-20/90-100 level (For Test 18+ average), keeping their bowling intact OR 2. push Anwar Ali, Bilawal, Hammad, Yamin, ... harder to bring their bowling average to 35 level (from God knows, may be 60), keeping batting intact - I know which has a better odd to happen. Fast bowling demands the ultimate work load, body & skills - you can't make someone fast bowler, neither a 40+ average batsman just by practice, but it's possible to add numbers with your batting with much lesser effort than for bowling, particularly fast bowling. Hasan Ali is proving it, it would have been the case for Wahab, Gul, Sohail & Tanvir as well had they bothered for it or had someone asked them to bother.

 

[Mamoon]

This is what you get when you give the job to a gloried fitness trainer like Waqar, whose solution to every problem is to run 10 km and do some push-ups and pull-ups.

Only in Pakistan will a disastrous captain thrusted with the responsibility of a head coach. You don't need to be a great player to be a great coach, but someone who was a tactical failure as captain will never prove to be a good head coach.

 

[AFM]

Yeah Mickey Arthur is the best coach in the history of mankind

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Better version of himself, sure. Good enough to last in international cricket, no, he doesn't have the body for that.

 

[Savak]

This is what you get when you give the job to a gloried fitness trainer like Waqar, whose solution to every problem is to run 10 km and do some push-ups and pull-ups.

Only in Pakistan will a disastrous captain thrusted with the responsibility of a head coach. You don't need to be a great player to be a great coach, but someone who was a tactical failure as captain will never prove to be a good head coach.

This comment is perfectly rich coming from a guy whom i remember full well from 2014-2016 used to praise Waqar as being the ultimate son of the nation, a true hard worker who realized the value of sweat and ruggedness to get to greatness and the right coach of a team of prima donas. Not surprised at all to see you conveniently change your tails and turn back against your guy

 

[Mamoon]

This comment is perfectly rich coming from a guy whom i remember full well from 2014-2016 used to praise Waqar as being the ultimate son of the nation, a true hard worker who realized the value of sweat and ruggedness to get to greatness and the right coach of a team of prima donas. Not surprised at all to see you conveniently change your tails and turn back against your guy

I underestimated the value of a specialist coach, but it doesn't change the fact that Waqar is a role-model. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a good tactical brain and has no eye for talent.

 

[maxamax]

Team mein wapis anay ke liyay kitna makhan lagana parhta hai

Atleast he's smart enough to not go wild post-Arthur comments.

Poor SK. What a bowler and a clean striker of the ball too. Shame he was discarded into the wilderness for years.

After Amir, he was taking most wickets in local circuit around 2010. Amazing how we ignored him for horses like Gul and Tanvir.

 

[giri26]

It is strange that an International coach needs to educate an experienced player about fitness. What are domestic coaches doing?

 

[Savak]

It is strange that an International coach needs to educate an experienced player about fitness. What are domestic coaches doing?

Still teaching and talking to players as if they are operating in the 1960's and 70's.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Sohail can swing the new ball, take wickets, and hit a few as a lower order batsman. Not many bowlers in Pakistan can do that. Too bad he's too old now.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yet if you listen to some PP armchair pundits, Mickey Arthur is a clueless "con man" who's only here for his paycheck.

If only Arthur was Pakistan coach 10 years ago after Bob Woolmer.

If it weren't for Arthur's sacking by CA, he would not have been Pak's coach. Arthur was a hot shot coach back in 2007, until his sacking in 2013, he was considered a name too big for Pakistan. His reputation took a hit when he was sacked before Ashes 2013, and like he said he was not able to find international coaching jobs after that. If i remember correctly, the committee had approached Arthur back in 2007, but he refused. So yeah, the homework gate turned out to be a blessing for us.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Sohail has always been very unfit. I remember back in 2011 after the Zimbabwe series, Waqar had said Sohail has everything a fast bowler needs if he only improves his fitness. He was recalled 4 years afterwards and his problems remained. It wasn't until late 2016 that Sohail finally acknowledged that he had a fitness problem.
He kept denying his speeds would get down in later spells, and he actually insisted he was doing it on purpose.
If anything, Sohail himself is to blame. A fast bowler has to take care of his fitness levels.

 

[shariqnoor]

I think you also have to look at the context before saying Sohail Khan should've been in the team a long time back. Well he simply couldn't because firstly he debuted in the FC structure in the 2008 season and from 2008-2010 onwards, you had a pace attack consisting of Gul, Asif and Amir. There was no way on earth, any fast bowler let alone a 1 year old domestic pacer like Sohail would've broken into the team then. After spot-fixing, Gul and Wahab led our attack and we found a very able and reliable bowler in Junaid Khan who I think was doing great.

Now let's come to the part where we had a pace attack of Rahat and Imran. It is important to note that the first time Sohail Khan came into prominence was in 2010-11 domestic season where he got 50 wickets in 8 matches and was ranked number 1 but again he was playing Quaid-e-Azam Division 2. I think the selectors don't give that much preference to players who are playing Division 2 cricket. The following season Sohail Khan played Division 1 but was ranked 28th in the bowling charts with 31 wickets in 10 matches. Hardly knocking for a place in the national team. Then he was nowhere in the bowling charts in 2012-13 season. For 2013-14 season, he played the President's Cup and took only 26 wickets in 9 matches ranking 26th in the charts.

From the 2014 season, we inducted Rahat Ali and Imran Khan into the team who frankly didn't deserve to be in the team but then again Sohail didn't deserve it too then. However Sohail performed admirably in the 2014-15 domestic season where he got 64 wickets in 11 matches ranking 1st in the bowling charts. He was brought in the team based on that performance and got to play the World Cup. He got injured after that but was in and around the team plans always.

So overall I don't see how the selectors have wasted Sohail Khan. His fitness used to be appalling as well back in the days.

 

[daytrader]

Easy for Arthur to say it's a shame and sideline SK rather than work on his game now. SK will be a valuable asset for World T20

 

[MMHS]

I think you also have to look at the context before saying Sohail Khan should've been in the team a long time back. Well he simply couldn't because firstly he debuted in the FC structure in the 2008 season and from 2008-2010 onwards, you had a pace attack consisting of Gul, Asif and Amir. There was no way on earth, any fast bowler let alone a 1 year old domestic pacer like Sohail would've broken into the team then. After spot-fixing, Gul and Wahab led our attack and we found a very able and reliable bowler in Junaid Khan who I think was doing great.

Now let's come to the part where we had a pace attack of Rahat and Imran. It is important to note that the first time Sohail Khan came into prominence was in 2010-11 domestic season where he got 50 wickets in 8 matches and was ranked number 1 but again he was playing Quaid-e-Azam Division 2. I think the selectors don't give that much preference to players who are playing Division 2 cricket. The following season Sohail Khan played Division 1 but was ranked 28th in the bowling charts with 31 wickets in 10 matches. Hardly knocking for a place in the national team. Then he was nowhere in the bowling charts in 2012-13 season. For 2013-14 season, he played the President's Cup and took only 26 wickets in 9 matches ranking 26th in the charts.

From the 2014 season, we inducted Rahat Ali and Imran Khan into the team who frankly didn't deserve to be in the team but then again Sohail didn't deserve it too then. However Sohail performed admirably in the 2014-15 domestic season where he got 64 wickets in 11 matches ranking 1st in the bowling charts. He was brought in the team based on that performance and got to play the World Cup. He got injured after that but was in and around the team plans always.

So overall I don't see how the selectors have wasted Sohail Khan. His fitness used to be appalling as well back in the days.

If you feel that QEA stats (or any tournament stats) is the only parameter to select players, then probably no one needs high profile CS, Coach, Manager ..... if doesn't need even cricket board to be honest. Any tea boy at PCB with basic Computer skills can do it - these days, it even doesn't require to sort the data table, it's built in.

Players should he picked on their skills, type, potential and role (how they fit in the Squad/XI), not only on stats. During 2008-10 period, PAK played Gul, Tanvir (Sohail), Talha, Wahab, Rauf .... and after that Misbah's team had Cheema, Tanvir (Ahmed) and few I forgot now - single dimensional bowlers like Imran (both, other one was a Joke pick), Irfan & Rahat for years together, but this guy Sohail was the perfect fit for new ball pacer and No. 8/9 hitter. He is 6'4", extremely powerful and and honest trier.

Only reason why SK missed out is that he comes from an unfancied tribal area and played around Karachi teams. Regarding Arthur, I can categorically tell, putting my reputation at stake - had Arthur not been there Hasan, Raees, Fahim, Shadab, Shinwari.... won't have been playing even for even PAK A regularly under Ul Haq (no personal dig at him, he is better than anyone in last 10 years, may be apart from Mohsin Khan - but it only tells what Qasim, Illyas & Rashid was). By now, half of Gul, Irfan, Tanvir, Wahab, Rahat, Imran, Cheema, Anwar, Bilawal ... would have been playing for PAK - rest half for PAK A .... and 6 months later the role revises.

There is a reason that, PAK teams' average official age reached close to 35 and the day Arthur leaves, if another Deshi great is awarded a working pension scheme (or a foreign doll) - within 2 years time it'll reach to 35 level again.

 

[shariqnoor]

If you feel that QEA stats (or any tournament stats) is the only parameter to select players, then probably no one needs high profile CS, Coach, Manager ..... if doesn't need even cricket board to be honest. Any tea boy at PCB with basic Computer skills can do it - these days, it even doesn't require to sort the data table, it's built in.

Players should he picked on their skills, type, potential and role (how they fit in the Squad/XI), not only on stats. During 2008-10 period, PAK played Gul, Tanvir (Sohail), Talha, Wahab, Rauf .... and after that Misbah's team had Cheema, Tanvir (Ahmed) and few I forgot now - single dimensional bowlers like Imran (both, other one was a Joke pick), Irfan & Rahat for years together, but this guy Sohail was the perfect fit for new ball pacer and No. 8/9 hitter. He is 6'4", extremely powerful and and honest trier.

Only reason why SK missed out is that he comes from an unfancied tribal area and played around Karachi teams. Regarding Arthur, I can categorically tell, putting my reputation at stake - had Arthur not been there Hasan, Raees, Fahim, Shadab, Shinwari.... won't have been playing even for even PAK A regularly under Ul Haq (no personal dig at him, he is better than anyone in last 10 years, may be apart from Mohsin Khan - but it only tells what Qasim, Illyas & Rashid was). By now, half of Gul, Irfan, Tanvir, Wahab, Rahat, Imran, Cheema, Anwar, Bilawal ... would have been playing for PAK - rest half for PAK A .... and 6 months later the role revises.

There is a reason that, PAK teams' average official age reached close to 35 and the day Arthur leaves, if another Deshi great is awarded a working pension scheme (or a foreign doll) - within 2 years time it'll reach to 35 level again.

I partially agree with your post. Agree with your thought that domestic stats is not the only parameter to select players but I don't agree with your reason that the only reason Sohail missed out on selection was due to his geography. He was selected in 2008 and 2009 for ODI and Tests. If his tribal area geography didn't matter then, do you think it suddenly mattered a few years later when he was struggling to get in the Pakistan lineup?

Coming to the selection criteria, I fully agree with you that stats are not the end all and be all. In fact I believe in picking players straight from the U-19 setup and debuting them for the national team. Our domestic structure actually depletes the skills of our cricketers. However the counter argument is, that if you are that skillful, then you should be able to torment the batsman in the domestic structure as well. Sohail Khan in 6 years of domestic cricket, topped the charts only 2 times (once in Division 2, once in Division 1) and the rest of the time wasn't even in the top 25 plus his fitness was alarmingly poor during those times. Might be the reason why he wasn't picked for the national team.

I believe its easy to say in hindsight that we should've picked Sohail earlier but at that time there wasn't any evidence that Sohail was a great bowler. You should've seen him bowling in the domestic tournaments during that 2010-2013 period. He was awful.

Also when Misbah started building his team in 2010, our team's average age was around 28. The average age went up because of players like Hafeez/Younis/Misbah/Ajmal. These were un-droppable players for Pakistan. Also Azhar Ali, Sarfraz Ahmed and Asad Shafiq formed the youth back then who also got older by the end of Misbah's tenure which pushed up the average age. The reason for our average age going up wasn't the inclusion of players like Irfan / Wahab / Rahat et al.

 

[MMHS]

I partially agree with your post. Agree with your thought that domestic stats is not the only parameter to select players but I don't agree with your reason that the only reason Sohail missed out on selection was due to his geography. He was selected in 2008 and 2009 for ODI and Tests. If his tribal area geography didn't matter then, do you think it suddenly mattered a few years later when he was struggling to get in the Pakistan lineup?

Coming to the selection criteria, I fully agree with you that stats are not the end all and be all. In fact I believe in picking players straight from the U-19 setup and debuting them for the national team. Our domestic structure actually depletes the skills of our cricketers. However the counter argument is, that if you are that skillful, then you should be able to torment the batsman in the domestic structure as well. Sohail Khan in 6 years of domestic cricket, topped the charts only 2 times (once in Division 2, once in Division 1) and the rest of the time wasn't even in the top 25 plus his fitness was alarmingly poor during those times. Might be the reason why he wasn't picked for the national team.

I believe its easy to say in hindsight that we should've picked Sohail earlier but at that time there wasn't any evidence that Sohail was a great bowler. You should've seen him bowling in the domestic tournaments during that 2010-2013 period. He was awful.

Also when Misbah started building his team in 2010, our team's average age was around 28. The average age went up because of players like Hafeez/Younis/Misbah/Ajmal. These were un-droppable players for Pakistan. Also Azhar Ali, Sarfraz Ahmed and Asad Shafiq formed the youth back then who also got older by the end of Misbah's tenure which pushed up the average age. The reason for our average age going up wasn't the inclusion of players like Irfan / Wahab / Rahat et al.

Normally, with age teams are rotated - most aged players leave, that position is taken by younger players. During Misbah's time in general younger players were dropped and replaced by grand pa's....

 

[shariqnoor]

Normally, with age teams are rotated - most aged players leave, that position is taken by younger players. During Misbah's time in general younger players were dropped and replaced by grand pa's....

One of the greatest myths in Pakistan cricket that grandpas were inducted in the team under Misbah.

56 Test Matches under Misbah's captaincy and these are the over 30 players that debuted under Misbah. In brackets is the age at when they debuted in Test matches for Pakistan.

1. Tanvir Ahmed (31 years)
2. Aizaz Cheema (32 years)
3. Ayub Dogar (32 years)
4. Mohammad Irfan (31 years)
5. Zulfiqar Babar (33 years)
6. Mohammad Salman (31 years)

Ayub Dogar played only 1 Test for Pakistan and Mohammad Salman only 2.

These are the young players that debuted for Pakistan in Tests under Misbah. In brackets is the age at when they debuted in Test matches for Pakistan.

1. Ehsan Adil (20 years)
2. Bilawal Bhatti (22 years)
3. Sami Aslam (19 years)
4. Babar Azam (22 years)
5. Rahat Ali (25 years)
6. Mohammad Nawaz (22 years)
7. Asad Shafiq (24 years)

Now you cannot have double standards and give credit to Coach or Selector for young players debuting and then proceed to put blame on Misbah ul Haq for older players debuting. Keep a single yardstick.

These are not my opinions. These are facts that can be corroborated. I still feel for Misbah for being subjected to this horrible myth that he inducted oldies and grandpas in the team. He still faces this at Islamabad United which ain't true there either.

 

[MMHS]

One of the greatest myths in Pakistan cricket that grandpas were inducted in the team under Misbah.

56 Test Matches under Misbah's captaincy and these are the over 30 players that debuted under Misbah. In brackets is the age at when they debuted in Test matches for Pakistan.

1. Tanvir Ahmed (31 years)
2. Aizaz Cheema (32 years)
3. Ayub Dogar (32 years)
4. Mohammad Irfan (31 years)
5. Zulfiqar Babar (33 years)
6. Mohammad Salman (31 years)

Ayub Dogar played only 1 Test for Pakistan and Mohammad Salman only 2.

These are the young players that debuted for Pakistan in Tests under Misbah. In brackets is the age at when they debuted in Test matches for Pakistan.

1. Ehsan Adil (20 years)
2. Bilawal Bhatti (22 years)
3. Sami Aslam (19 years)
4. Babar Azam (22 years)
5. Rahat Ali (25 years)
6. Mohammad Nawaz (22 years)
7. Asad Shafiq (24 years)

Now you cannot have double standards and give credit to Coach or Selector for young players debuting and then proceed to put blame on Misbah ul Haq for older players debuting. Keep a single yardstick.

These are not my opinions. These are facts that can be corroborated. I still feel for Misbah for being subjected to this horrible myth that he inducted oldies and grandpas in the team. He still faces this at Islamabad United which ain't true there either.

I don't blame Misbah alone, Coach & CS has to be part of it. And, I have given Misbah lots, lots of credit for at least debuting players, may be a bit aged but it was far better than Ul Haq era. His bigger issue was to surround himself with "own" people and worse all was that he destroyed the core strength of PAK cricket - batsmen picked for their blocking ability (and dropped for aggressive batting), spinners picked for their darting ability, fast bowlers picked for using the old ball and worst of all was that first time I saw PAK team settling for respectable defeat, rather than going for the kill.

However, even in you list you can see a fundamental blunder - out of the 6 players debuted over 30, 4 of them are bowlers, 1 WK and 3 fast bowlers....... and these are based of official age.

 

[shariqnoor]

I don't blame Misbah alone, Coach & CS has to be part of it. And, I have given Misbah lots, lots of credit for at least debuting players, may be a bit aged but it was far better than Ul Haq era. His bigger issue was to surround himself with "own" people and worse all was that he destroyed the core strength of PAK cricket - batsmen picked for their blocking ability (and dropped for aggressive batting), spinners picked for their darting ability, fast bowlers picked for using the old ball and worst of all was that first time I saw PAK team settling for respectable defeat, rather than going for the kill.

However, even in you list you can see a fundamental blunder - out of the 6 players debuted over 30, 4 of them are bowlers, 1 WK and 3 fast bowlers....... and these are based of official age.

I respectfully disagree with that opinion. I don't doubt Misbah's integrity to Pakistan cricket as I believe he picked the players which he thought would win him a match. Sure he had confidence in some players more than others but which captain doesn't? Every captain has their own favorites to an extent. Imran Khan was the biggest culprit of them all, if you consider this a crime. He picked Saleem Yousuf simply because he thought he was gutsy when there were much better WK batsmen available at that time. So it's just a matter of who the captain feels more confident with. I would rather avoid labeling anyone as selecting "own" people.

Also again would respectfully disagree with your opinion about destroying the core strength of Pakistan cricket. What did Pakistan achieve in world cricket with that "core strength"? The batting flair that we used to associate with Pakistan cricket never won us a major ICC tournament or a major Test series. Our 1990's team was full of superstars yet was one of the most underachieving team in the history of Pakistan cricket. Which mega series have we won with the likes of Wasim/Waqar/Shoaib and that fiery pace attack that you revel in? Apart from 1992/1996 series win in England, I can't recall our "core strength" winning us anything substantial.

But here comes a guy who with extremely limited resources, turns around the fortunes of Pakistan cricket by reinventing the wheel and we suddenly have problems with that? From fast bowlers, he made our spinners the most potent force of attack in the UAE. I don't think there's anything wrong in that. Only a fool would use fast bowlers as a primary source of attack in the UAE and we saw the disastrous results when Mickey and Arthur tried to use that against SL. I would gladly take that 2010-2016 period of our Test cricket that made us number 1 in the world than reveling in our "core strength" and win absolutely zilch other than mickey mouse sharjah tournaments.

Regarding the oldie fast bowlers debuting, I think you should also take into account the fact that they were discarded pretty soon as it was apparent they weren't Test material. All of them played very few test matches.

Lastly, and this is just my personal opinion, I believe we have become too much of romantics looking for those 18-19 year old tearing away at batting lineups and playing for 15 years. Times have changed. Nowadays fitness is such a big issue that even 30-31 year old fast bowlers are fine. Induct bowlers who are their top form, get 4-5 years out of them and move on to the next fast bowler with an occasional find like Hasan Ali who will play for a decade. We got 3-4 years out of Irfan at his peak and now he's out which is fine. Just my opinion considering the changing times.

 

[MMHS]

I respectfully disagree with that opinion. I don't doubt Misbah's integrity to Pakistan cricket as I believe he picked the players which he thought would win him a match. Sure he had confidence in some players more than others but which captain doesn't? Every captain has their own favorites to an extent. Imran Khan was the biggest culprit of them all, if you consider this a crime. He picked Saleem Yousuf simply because he thought he was gutsy when there were much better WK batsmen available at that time. So it's just a matter of who the captain feels more confident with. I would rather avoid labeling anyone as selecting "own" people.

Also again would respectfully disagree with your opinion about destroying the core strength of Pakistan cricket. What did Pakistan achieve in world cricket with that "core strength"? The batting flair that we used to associate with Pakistan cricket never won us a major ICC tournament or a major Test series. Our 1990's team was full of superstars yet was one of the most underachieving team in the history of Pakistan cricket. Which mega series have we won with the likes of Wasim/Waqar/Shoaib and that fiery pace attack that you revel in? Apart from 1992/1996 series win in England, I can't recall our "core strength" winning us anything substantial.

But here comes a guy who with extremely limited resources, turns around the fortunes of Pakistan cricket by reinventing the wheel and we suddenly have problems with that? From fast bowlers, he made our spinners the most potent force of attack in the UAE. I don't think there's anything wrong in that. Only a fool would use fast bowlers as a primary source of attack in the UAE and we saw the disastrous results when Mickey and Arthur tried to use that against SL. I would gladly take that 2010-2016 period of our Test cricket that made us number 1 in the world than reveling in our "core strength" and win absolutely zilch other than mickey mouse sharjah tournaments.

Regarding the oldie fast bowlers debuting, I think you should also take into account the fact that they were discarded pretty soon as it was apparent they weren't Test material. All of them played very few test matches.

Lastly, and this is just my personal opinion, I believe we have become too much of romantics looking for those 18-19 year old tearing away at batting lineups and playing for 15 years. Times have changed. Nowadays fitness is such a big issue that even 30-31 year old fast bowlers are fine. Induct bowlers who are their top form, get 4-5 years out of them and move on to the next fast bowler with an occasional find like Hasan Ali who will play for a decade. We got 3-4 years out of Irfan at his peak and now he's out which is fine. Just my opinion considering the changing times.

I think, Imran was cent percent honest & he backed players that had guts to fight, because he himself was more than anything else - a champion competitor. I am not aware of which other WK's were available that time, because only one I can recall was rubbish than Umar Akmal - Anil Dalpat. Yousuf's keeping wasn't great, but his athleticism was only 2nd to Latif among PAK WKs & that guy was a born fighter - he was instrumental in some of the major achievements by Imran's team - his 49* at Bangalore won a tight Test (Series), his 91* at Birmingham saved a Test & 1-0 lead (I think he had a good score at Leeds as well, but PAK won by innings, so not much in it); he had a 50+ at Georgetown, probably a 35 in 3 hours at Port of Spain that PAK saved by last pair, his 50+ at Faisalabad against that WI in 1986 & his 56 at the WC of 1987 against WI....... and, majority of these scores were made in a tug of war with 9, 10 & Jack. Tough to believe Imran backed Yousuf because of being from own group, because he was instrumental in dropping SY for 1992 WC for Moin, for his fitness.

For the achievement part, I think more that Misbah, you have to thank 3/9 most - probably self explained. That 1990s generation was corrupt, but there was nothing wrong in their flair play, neither their approach - they hardly lost a Test for going bang bang. That side won two Series in ENG, would have won a series in WI as well, did beat that AUS side once (would have done twice), won 2 Tests out of 3 in IND ..... Misbah's side went to AUS/NZ and ........ However, my comment was for ODI - probably self explained again.

Regarding limited resources, I actually think opposite - we are watching cricket in an era when every team is HTB. BD is beating AUS/ENG, SRL clean sweeping AUS .... even Mughabe's ZIM beating PAK in a Test!!!! In that era, what Misbah's team did was bare minimum - you ask me, any decent Captain would have achieved more than that with same squad, including Ajmal & Yasir at their prime. What happens that, PAK played most series of 2/3 Tests in UAE & by the time visitors settle there, they are a Test or two down. If you notice carefully, despite winning almost every toss on sluggish UAE tracks, PAK have lost 3rd Test of the series to NZ, WI, failed to beat SAF & NZ - by 3rd Test, it's the tourists often stronger than host. IND doesn't play PAK - only Asian side that Misbah faced in UAE are SRL - check what they did to his team there. But, I won't take his credit out here - his numbers are good, my post wasn't for his Test era.

For the last part, you mis-understood my post - I don't have any romanticism to 18-19 years kids (Nauzubillah ), rather I believe only way for PAK's fast bowlers in the Imran way of scouting - that's pick 18-19 years old kids, who were born like 4-6 years old . That 30-31 years of yours is absolutely correct - every team does that, even Aussies have called 30 years old Chad Sayer & Poms are playing Plunket at 33 in ODI (have taken 35 years old Jimmy to Kangaroo land). BUT, you factor that 4-6 years (even 10, trust me - Saad Altaf is 33 now, Iftekhar 27), and then visualize Rahat, Wahab, Sohail, Imran from AUS tour, then talk about modern fitness - again self explainable, if you are honest with yourself. In fact, this Abbas guy is not even 30!!! ... and that Tanvir guy was 34, just!!!!!

Problem for me with die hard fans is that whatever I write, I write in proper spirit - readers read that based on their affiliation. Here, there was not much against Misbah, no need to call his name either, because he was part of a system that played 9 players over 30 (5 over 35), exactly 2 years before next WC - he did something regarding his buddies, this popular chap is also doing to an extent - because the problem isn't in person, the problem is in system.

 

[DRsohail]

I think, Imran was cent percent honest & he backed players that had guts to fight, because he himself was more than anything else - a champion competitor. I am not aware of which other WK's were available that time, because only one I can recall was rubbish than Umar Akmal - Anil Dalpat. Yousuf's keeping wasn't great, but his athleticism was only 2nd to Latif among PAK WKs & that guy was a born fighter - he was instrumental in some of the major achievements by Imran's team - his 49* at Bangalore won a tight Test (Series), his 91* at Birmingham saved a Test & 1-0 lead (I think he had a good score at Leeds as well, but PAK won by innings, so not much in it); he had a 50+ at Georgetown, probably a 35 in 3 hours at Port of Spain that PAK saved by last pair, his 50+ at Faisalabad against that WI in 1986 & his 56 at the WC of 1987 against WI....... and, majority of these scores were made in a tug of war with 9, 10 & Jack. Tough to believe Imran backed Yousuf because of being from own group, because he was instrumental in dropping SY for 1992 WC for Moin, for his fitness.

For the achievement part, I think more that Misbah, you have to thank 3/9 most - probably self explained. That 1990s generation was corrupt, but there was nothing wrong in their flair play, neither their approach - they hardly lost a Test for going bang bang. That side won two Series in ENG, would have won a series in WI as well, did beat that AUS side once (would have done twice), won 2 Tests out of 3 in IND ..... Misbah's side went to AUS/NZ and ........ However, my comment was for ODI - probably self explained again.

Regarding limited resources, I actually think opposite - we are watching cricket in an era when every team is HTB. BD is beating AUS/ENG, SRL clean sweeping AUS .... even Mughabe's ZIM beating PAK in a Test!!!! In that era, what Misbah's team did was bare minimum - you ask me, any decent Captain would have achieved more than that with same squad, including Ajmal & Yasir at their prime. What happens that, PAK played most series of 2/3 Tests in UAE & by the time visitors settle there, they are a Test or two down. If you notice carefully, despite winning almost every toss on sluggish UAE tracks, PAK have lost 3rd Test of the series to NZ, WI, failed to beat SAF & NZ - by 3rd Test, it's the tourists often stronger than host. IND doesn't play PAK - only Asian side that Misbah faced in UAE are SRL - check what they did to his team there. But, I won't take his credit out here - his numbers are good, my post wasn't for his Test era.

For the last part, you mis-understood my post - I don't have any romanticism to 18-19 years kids (Nauzubillah ), rather I believe only way for PAK's fast bowlers in the Imran way of scouting - that's pick 18-19 years old kids, who were born like 4-6 years old . That 30-31 years of yours is absolutely correct - every team does that, even Aussies have called 30 years old Chad Sayer & Poms are playing Plunket at 33 in ODI (have taken 35 years old Jimmy to Kangaroo land). BUT, you factor that 4-6 years (even 10, trust me - Saad Altaf is 33 now, Iftekhar 27), and then visualize Rahat, Wahab, Sohail, Imran from AUS tour, then talk about modern fitness - again self explainable, if you are honest with yourself. In fact, this Abbas guy is not even 30!!! ... and that Tanvir guy was 34, just!!!!!

Problem for me with die hard fans is that whatever I write, I write in proper spirit - readers read that based on their affiliation. Here, there was not much against Misbah, no need to call his name either, because he was part of a system that played 9 players over 30 (5 over 35), exactly 2 years before next WC - he did something regarding his buddies, this popular chap is also doing to an extent - because the problem isn't in person, the problem is in system.

very informative and i thoroughly agree..first time heard that someone was appreciating salim yusuf for his gutsy innings apart from may father,,,my dad always used to say and even now he says that salim yosuf was a fighter although the stats does not tell.

 

[shariqnoor]

I think, Imran was cent percent honest & he backed players that had guts to fight, because he himself was more than anything else - a champion competitor. I am not aware of which other WK's were available that time, because only one I can recall was rubbish than Umar Akmal - Anil Dalpat. Yousuf's keeping wasn't great, but his athleticism was only 2nd to Latif among PAK WKs & that guy was a born fighter - he was instrumental in some of the major achievements by Imran's team - his 49* at Bangalore won a tight Test (Series), his 91* at Birmingham saved a Test & 1-0 lead (I think he had a good score at Leeds as well, but PAK won by innings, so not much in it); he had a 50+ at Georgetown, probably a 35 in 3 hours at Port of Spain that PAK saved by last pair, his 50+ at Faisalabad against that WI in 1986 & his 56 at the WC of 1987 against WI....... and, majority of these scores were made in a tug of war with 9, 10 & Jack. Tough to believe Imran backed Yousuf because of being from own group, because he was instrumental in dropping SY for 1992 WC for Moin, for his fitness.

For the achievement part, I think more that Misbah, you have to thank 3/9 most - probably self explained. That 1990s generation was corrupt, but there was nothing wrong in their flair play, neither their approach - they hardly lost a Test for going bang bang. That side won two Series in ENG, would have won a series in WI as well, did beat that AUS side once (would have done twice), won 2 Tests out of 3 in IND ..... Misbah's side went to AUS/NZ and ........ However, my comment was for ODI - probably self explained again.

Regarding limited resources, I actually think opposite - we are watching cricket in an era when every team is HTB. BD is beating AUS/ENG, SRL clean sweeping AUS .... even Mughabe's ZIM beating PAK in a Test!!!! In that era, what Misbah's team did was bare minimum - you ask me, any decent Captain would have achieved more than that with same squad, including Ajmal & Yasir at their prime. What happens that, PAK played most series of 2/3 Tests in UAE & by the time visitors settle there, they are a Test or two down. If you notice carefully, despite winning almost every toss on sluggish UAE tracks, PAK have lost 3rd Test of the series to NZ, WI, failed to beat SAF & NZ - by 3rd Test, it's the tourists often stronger than host. IND doesn't play PAK - only Asian side that Misbah faced in UAE are SRL - check what they did to his team there. But, I won't take his credit out here - his numbers are good, my post wasn't for his Test era.

For the last part, you mis-understood my post - I don't have any romanticism to 18-19 years kids (Nauzubillah ), rather I believe only way for PAK's fast bowlers in the Imran way of scouting - that's pick 18-19 years old kids, who were born like 4-6 years old . That 30-31 years of yours is absolutely correct - every team does that, even Aussies have called 30 years old Chad Sayer & Poms are playing Plunket at 33 in ODI (have taken 35 years old Jimmy to Kangaroo land). BUT, you factor that 4-6 years (even 10, trust me - Saad Altaf is 33 now, Iftekhar 27), and then visualize Rahat, Wahab, Sohail, Imran from AUS tour, then talk about modern fitness - again self explainable, if you are honest with yourself. In fact, this Abbas guy is not even 30!!! ... and that Tanvir guy was 34, just!!!!!

Problem for me with die hard fans is that whatever I write, I write in proper spirit - readers read that based on their affiliation. Here, there was not much against Misbah, no need to call his name either, because he was part of a system that played 9 players over 30 (5 over 35), exactly 2 years before next WC - he did something regarding his buddies, this popular chap is also doing to an extent - because the problem isn't in person, the problem is in system.

I was just responding to your point that Misbah's tenure inducted grandpas in his team which I pretty much rebutted through facts. I wasn't bringing in Misbah for the sake of it. In fact you started the argument that Misbah brought in his "own" people which I found to be very demeaning to Misbah. Plus I also write in proper spirit.


because he was part of a system that played 9 players over 30 (5 over 35), exactly 2 years before next WC - he did something regarding his buddies,

Personally I don't think anyone in their right mind would drop Ajmal, Afridi, Misbah, Hafeez from the ODI team even if they were 35 at that time. I genuinely believe that the only guy Misbah fought for to be in the team was Saeed Ajmal and for which you can label him to be Misbah's "own" player but time proved how world class Ajmal was. Was that wrong on Misbah's part? Absolutely not.

I agree with you that the system needs some revisiting so that we can get some young blood but I get the impression from your posts that inducting over 30s in the team is somehow a crime.