"Yasir Shah is the best leg-spinner I have ever seen" - Shane Warne

[ExplicitAI]

Yasir's real test of how good he is will come when bowls to the Indians. Warne did not have a good time bowling to them and it will be interesting to see how Yasir fares against the country that produces the best players of spin bowling.

I don't think we'll see us playing a Test match against India for a very long time.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Disagree.We are still the best players of spin on overall.

Its debatable. Pakistan are better most likely.

We are not the best survivors of spin thuogh we can take on spin better than any team.

Did you see Cornwall the offie took a 5fer in the tour game?

Went for nearly 4 but took a 5fer and we were all out for 364 in a pitch where we should have been 500.

Victims: Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Saha and Jaddu if I am not wrong.

Even in England, we smashed Moeen Ali around for most part but he got a lot of wickets from 3rd test onwards and so our game against spin wasn't impactful even though runs came in.

These days we can hit spinners but don't survive. In the past, we used to hit spinners without getting out.

 

[Rudi hater]

Yasir's tough tests lie in swing pitches of England, flat tracks of Aus and SA pitches.

Not against Indians.

Times have changed.

LOL, one task after the other. First it was if he can take wickets away from UAE, then it was if he can take wickets in England and now Australia and SA.

I admire your thinking Yasir will own you every time. I admit he will have bad days just as Warne or any other players but he will be right up there.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Its debatable. Pakistan are better most likely.

We are not the best survivors of spin thuogh we can take on spin better than any team.

Did you see Cornwall the offie took a 5fer in the tour game?

Went for nearly 4 but took a 5fer and we were all out for 364 in a pitch where we should have been 500.

Victims: Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Saha and Jaddu if I am not wrong.

Even in England, we smashed Moeen Ali around for most part but he got a lot of wickets from 3rd test onwards and so our game against spin wasn't impactful even though runs came in.

These days we can hit spinners but don't survive. In the past, we used to hit spinners without getting out.

If you are scoring runs then if the bowler takes wicket its not an issues.Bowler takes 5 for 90 and team scores 400 plus is that a good performance or bad performance againist spin?

In past also spinners would get wickets but go for runs.

Regarding Moeen Ali i can tell you that the batters took unnecessary risks againist him because the fast bowlers had strangled them.

 

[street cricketer]

They drew series with SA as Tahir and co. ran through them.

When I say Pakistan, I don't mean they are the ultimate spin playing team. I've said here a few months before in a thread that this is a poor spin playing era and Pakistan are the best of the bunch. They are vulnerable against a quality spinner as well but other teams are even worse. We get out to even mediocre spinners in Tests...

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

If you are scoring runs then if the bowler takes wicket its not an issues.Bowler takes 5 for 90 and team scores 400 plus is that a good performance or bad performance againist spin?

Depends on situation.

We scored 330 in Southampton but it was of no use cos we should have scored 500 on that flat track. We lost the game, gave up the momentum in a series where we held upper hand till that time and then got thrashed the last 2 tests.

We don't score 400 against spin every innings or even every 2nd innings against spin these days.

Against SL, we were shaky throughout.

Against SA, we had lots of tense moments with the bat. Pujara and Vijay scored a lot of important runs in first 3 tests with Jaddu and Saha chipping in. Last test, Rahane and Ashwin took us to safety in first innings.

We are not scoring a lot in heavy spin tracks and on flat tracks, we are scoring fast but not enough.

Hence the problem.

 

[Hawkeye]

Inzy?He was a goner againist Warne.And Moyo was a HTB.

Sorry but the ones you mention dont come close to the line up that India fielded.

SRT was owned by Akhtar in Tests, Anderson, McGrath etc.

Was he poor against pace?

Don't selectively judge. Overall, they were masters of playing spin. Folks you mentioned weren't poor either, but among them VVS was better and challenged the Pak trio in spin.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

LOL, one task after the other. First it was if he can take wickets away from UAE, then it was if he can take wickets in England and now Australia and SA.

I admire your thinking Yasir will own you every time. I admit he will have bad days just as Warne or any other players but he will be right up there.

How I weep for humanity.

Brother...don't take this bad....but you don't have enough IQ to understand my posts and I don't have enough patience to explain it to you.

Good day to you sir.

 

[Syed1]

Inzy?He was a goner againist Warne.And Moyo was a HTB.

Sorry but the ones you mention dont come close to the line up that India fielded.

How many test centuries does SRT have in Lord's?

Misbah >>> SRT

 

[Hasan123]

They drew series with SA as Tahir and co. ran through them.

Can remember you was mocking moyo inzi and younis for no century in australia.

Shafiq misbah Azhar Ali all have high scores than Kohli in England now!!!! )

 

[Rudi hater]

How I weep for humanity.

Brother...don't take this bad....but you don't have enough IQ to understand my posts and I don't have enough patience to explain it to you.

Good day to you sir.

Don't need to get peronal, I could say the samething to you too. Good day...

 

[Hasan123]

When I say Pakistan, I don't mean they are the ultimate spin playing team. I've said here a few months before in a thread that this is a poor spin playing era and Pakistan are the best of the bunch. They are vulnerable against a quality spinner as well but other teams are even worse. We get out to even mediocre spinners in Tests...

Its leg break bowlers we struggle against for the most part. Against off spin we are fine for the most part.

 

[Markhor]

Abdul Qadir was before my time but he always did well against England. However his record outside Pakistan left a lot to be desired.

Danish Kaneria had a number of excellent years and Inzy relied on him heavily however I never saw him bowl well in England, on the two tours here he never had a standout performance for whatever reason. Kamran's shambolic keeping didn't help.

Yasir's brilliance is his ability to be a containing and wicket-taking option. I was impressed by his stamina in the First Test bowling long spells given he hasn't played FC cricket in such a long time what with his suspension.

bowling legspin isnt jsut about bowling the tricky deliveries. Its about playing on a batsmens mind, working him voer and then getting him out. What yasir seems to ahve elarnt very well is to keep it tight, to keep probing and then suddenly bang, send in a variety delivery that catches the opposition off guard. Warne used to do it all the time. Thats what makes yasir so dangerous.

Indeed, Shane Warne got inside a batsman's head so much it was ridiculous, most notably Daryll Cullinan.

 

[Haz95]

Inzi, Moyo, Yk were better. VVS was equal, though.

I hope this is a joke )

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Don't need to get peronal, I could say the samething to you too. Good day...

Ok sorry. I feel bad about it now.

Anyways, let's move on.

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION]

Why can't you come out of your Indian bias even when there is no need? Anyone knows a little cricket won't argue on spin playing capacity of the fav 6 (add Gambhir as well), but you are simply putting this current lot from your ego not to accept the realty that Indians are not the best spin playing team any more - definitely not ahead of PAK, probably not against SrL, ENG & SAF as well.

Forget about Moeen, Lyon took 12 on an absolute belter, while on Mumbai turner, Monty took 12, that too bowling 1st to win a Test in Day 1 & 3.

It's is not healthy to argue with you & I try to avoid that, but in recent SRL tour SRL & Herath rolled this same Indian side defending ~150; couple of weeks back PAK chased 378 with 4 down against them.

Patriotism is good, but this is .......

 

[London_Lahori]

Disagree.We are still the best players of spin on overall.

Remember what Mo Ali done when you last toured? Brilliant at playing spin, obviously.

 

[MMHS]

And I forget to add - even in T20, what Kiwis did wasn't reflective to that argument

 

[cricketjoshila]

Remember what Mo Ali done when you last toured? Brilliant at playing spin, obviously.

Lol.All you can talk about is M.Ali.Well Indians took him on and were out playing shots to score runs as the pacers strangled the runs.They took risks againist him and got out.

The same M.Ali took out your best batsmen YK and Misbah at Lords.

 

[ethan hunt]

Sarfraz , younis and misbah are much better players of spin than anyone in the indian test team .
They have proven it again and again .
Two 300 plus chases on the 5th day against Srilanks in the subcontinent.

Its not even a contest .

 

[cricketjoshila]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION]

Why can't you come out of your Indian bias even when there is no need? Anyone knows a little cricket won't argue on spin playing capacity of the fav 6 (add Gambhir as well), but you are simply putting this current lot from your ego not to accept the realty that Indians are not the best spin playing team any more - definitely not ahead of PAK, probably not against SrL, ENG & SAF as well..

Your anti Indian bias is well known.So spare the sermon.And India just defeated SL and SAF if you didnt know.

Lyon took 12 on an absolute belter,

Yea and India scored 444 and 315 in that test.India almost chased down 360 runs in the second innings.Again started with your half lies,havent you.

while on Mumbai turner, Monty took 12, that too bowling 1st to win a Test in Day 1 & 3.

It was a turner and a aging Indian line up was caught in it.Most batsmen from that team are no more in the team.SO why the comparision?

It's is not healthy to argue with you & I try to avoid that, but in recent SRL tour SRL & Herath rolled this same Indian side defending ~150; couple of weeks back PAK chased 378 with 4 down against them.

Patriotism is good, but this is ......

And you forgot that Pakistan chased it at home and India was playing in SL.You also forgot that India went onto bully Lanka in the next two tests to win the test series.

And please dont give sermons to me.I have shown your anti Indian bias enough times on this forum and exposed your lies.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Sarfraz , younis and misbah are much better players of spin than anyone in the indian test team .
They have proven it again and again .
Two 300 plus chases on the 5th day against Srilanks in the subcontinent.

Its not even a contest .

This is true,ONLY ON PP.

 

[blue_champion]

If it is a ODI/T20 game...I would be more concerned if our batsmen were playing M.Ali than Yasir Shah...even though one is a 3rd grade bowler and the other is world class

 

[Slog]

Lol.All you can talk about is M.Ali.Well Indians took him on and were out playing shots to score runs as the pacers strangled the runs.They took risks againist him and got out.

The same M.Ali took out your best batsmen YK and Misbah at Lords.

very valid point in all honesty

Harmer and Tahir were running rings around Indian batsmen too and they have struggled against everyone else (this is despite the obv spin pitch - however i doubt the legends would have struggled this much)

 

[cricketjoshila]

And I forget to add - even in T20, what Kiwis did wasn't reflective to that argument

ABDV and Amla were taken to cleaners in tests in India by spinners.They then struggled againist ENG at home.So ABDV and Amla cant play spin and pace?

India beat SA in Durban in 2010 with Zakk and Sreesanth taking 6-7 wickets each.By your logic SA cant play pace.

India also beat AUS at Perth in 2008,So Aussies cant handle pace and bounce?

You and your anti Indian bias.Drips off in every post of yours.

 

[cricketjoshila]

very valid point in all honesty

Harmer and Tahir were running rings around Indian batsmen too and they have struggled against everyone else (this is despite the obv spin pitch - however i doubt the legends would have struggled this much)

On a rank turner everyone struggles.The trick is to outscore the batsman of the other team,which they did.There are many such examples where on turners the team didnt put 500 runs but did enough to outscore the other team's batsmen and winning the match.

Tahir Ran through Pak in UAE.

Adil did the same in UAE.

 

[blue_champion]

Indians do have a weakness against off spinners to be fair,but Yasir Shah would be a piece of cake even for our No 9,10,11

 

[idrizzy]

Shame his Googly is so underused though. I think Tahir has the best Googly I've seen.

If Shah can get more positive in his use of the Googly he'd be an even better bowler.

I second that. Tahir is actually quite the bowler in the shorter formats, it's weird how he hasn't translated that form into test cricket.

 

[Abdullah719]

ABDV and Amla were taken to cleaners in tests in India by spinners.They then struggled againist ENG at home.So ABDV and Amla cant play spin and pace?

India beat SA in Durban in 2010 with Zakk and Sreesanth taking 6-7 wickets each.By your logic SA cant play pace.

India also beat AUS at Perth in 2008,So Aussies cant handle pace and bounce?

You and your anti Indian bias.Drips off in every post of yours.

Do posters like [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION] and [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] also have an anti-India bias?

 

[ethan hunt]

This is true,ONLY ON PP.

No its true everywhere .
Younis is the besf player of spin in the world in test cricket currently ,his 4th innings record and daddy hundreds in the subcontinent are proof.

 

[MMHS]

Your anti Indian bias is well known.So spare the sermon.And India just defeated SL and SAF if you didnt know.





Yea and India scored 444 and 315 in that test.India almost chased down 360 runs in the second innings.Again started with your half lies,havent you.



It was a turner and a aging Indian line up was caught in it.Most batsmen from that team are no more in the team.SO why the comparision?



And you forgot that Pakistan chased it at home and India was playing in SL.You also forgot that India went onto bully Lanka in the next two tests to win the test series.

And please dont give sermons to me.I have shown your anti Indian bias enough times on this forum and exposed your lies.

PAK chased that at home, come on; you can do better than this.

I said, it's not healthy ....

 

[ethan hunt]

And you forgot that Pakistan chased it at home and India was playing in SL.You also forgot that India went onto bully Lanka in the next two tests to win the test series.

.

Lol. Pakistan chased 370 odd in srilanka.
It was the test preceding the one in which india were shot out for a 100 odd in the 4th innings .

 

[blue_champion]

PAK chased that at home, come on; you can do better than this.

I said, it's not healthy ....

How many Leg Spinners have troubled us? Yes we have a weakness these days against darting Finger Spinners in General....it could be Moeen or even Elgar but show me one Leg spinner that has our number.....Every one from the days of Warne to Tahir.....we play them like gully bowlers....now yeah there might be the odd good performance.

On the other hand Pak struggles against leg spinners or sometimes even against the likes of Marcus North.

Nothing that says Pak is way superior than us in Playing spin and by that I mean the current generation...the older generation when we had the Fab 5 it wasn't even close

 

[cricketjoshila]

PAK chased that at home, come on; you can do better than this.

I said, it's not healthy ....

Pakistan did chase down 300 plus at Sharjah in 4th innings in less that 60 overs,which was a remarkable chase.It happened in 2014.So got confused with the Pallakelle test match.

But that doesnt change the fact that India still won the series 2-1.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Do posters like [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION] and [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] also have an anti-India bias?

If they had i would tell them that.

They have been putting across their arguments and i am putting across mine.I didnt call anyone biased or patriotic or unhealthy till someone called me that.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Indians do have a weakness against off spinners to be fair,but Yasir Shah would be a piece of cake even for our No 9,10,11

We have trouble againist spinners when we go abroard because we try to take risks againist them as the pacers dont let us score runs.This is why we end up losing wickets,trying to play shots that are not there.

If you check,Ali did his damage in the 3rd and 4th test 2nd innings.He didnt do much in the other tests,may be 1-2 wickets in a innings.

In both of those innings where Ali took max wickets the Indian line up was under massive pressure that was put by the pacers.

 

[MMHS]

How many Leg Spinners have troubled us? Yes we have a weakness these days against darting Finger Spinners in General....it could be Moeen or even Elgar but show me one Leg spinner that has our number.....Every one from the days of Warne to Tahir.....we play them like gully bowlers....now yeah there might be the odd good performance.

On the other hand Pak struggles against leg spinners or sometimes even against the likes of Marcus North.

Nothing that says Pak is way superior than us in Playing spin and by that I mean the current generation...the older generation when we had the Fab 5 it wasn't even close

Good, now we are talking sense. How many Leggis are there in contemporary world?

Tahir is not a good bet for Test - he averages 40 in Test; but he averages half in the 4 Test he played against IND in IND. Accepted, those were absolute shockers of turners, but then AB & Amla batted for 150 overs on last day at one of the tracks. These days, there is hardly any leggi playing Test, .. IND-PAK Test series is not happening, so we can't comment while apart from Tahir, I can't recall any leggi playing Test these days against IND. Whatever, LO (which is by no means a good judge of playing leggi) that we have seen, Shodhi & Badri has troubled IND. May be, we can see what Bishu does.


I know my cricket & there is no denying regarding the Indian spin playing quality of past generation (but those post of mine are universal truth - regardless of my India hate). But, current generation neither has the technique, nor temperament to play quality spin, which is only because of my anti Indian sentiment.

This argument is absolutely unnecessary - most of the Indian posters here 'll agree with what I am writing here.

You yourself can laugh at some of the logic -

1. That fav 6 Indian line-up was best playing against spin - accepted
2. Mumbai Test had Gambhir, Sehwag, Pujara, ST, K, UN, MS - Monty took 11 wickets (& Swan 8) - that doesn't mean anything as not many of that team is playing in current team

3. So, these current lot is better spin player than that top 7 of Mumbai - MMHS is anti Indian.................. (Or Monti is much better than Yasir - MMHS is pro Pakistani)

Bye, Monday is not for PP ...........

 

[in_cutter]

Thread title is mis-leading. Warne said Yasir has the best pure legbreak he has ever seen.

 

[MMHS]

We have trouble againist spinners when we go abroard because we try to take risks againist them as the pacers dont let us score runs.This is why we end up losing wickets,trying to play shots that are not there.

If you check,Ali did his damage in the 3rd and 4th test 2nd innings.He didnt do much in the other tests,may be 1-2 wickets in a innings.

In both of those innings where Ali took max wickets the Indian line up was under massive pressure that was put by the pacers.

Great explanation - but if I question, how come Moeen, Adil & Patel were buying 1/2 wickets in UAE at ODI economy; when Jimmi & Berbi were going at 1.5 & knocking couple almost every time in 1st spell - the standard logic is my anti-Indian sentiment.

There could be another logic though - English (& AUS) wickets are more spin friendly & UAE wickets are more seem friendly; but it'll be easier to sell the 1st logic.

 

[blue_champion]

Great explanation - but if I question, how come Moeen, Adil & Patel were buying 1/2 wickets in UAE at ODI economy; when Jimmi & Berbi were going at 1.5 & knocking couple almost every time in 1st spell - the standard logic is my anti-Indian sentiment.

There could be another logic though - English (& AUS) wickets are more spin friendly & UAE wickets are more seem friendly; but it'll be easier to sell the 1st logic.

We underestimated Moeen Ali....no doubt.........Guys like Ali and even Jadeja who on the basis of record alone is a much superior bowler put batsmen in a dilemma...if you treat them as weak links and parttimers you end up losing your wickets because they are better than that....if you give them too much respect you are wasting a valuable opportunity to get some easy runs as they are not such world beaters with the ball...you have to strike the middle ground.

Case in example- Misbah paid the price of wanting to hit Moeen out of the attack and this was the guy who had all the confidence in the world after scoring a 100.

So the odd failure against Moeen or the success against him doesn't give the entire picture.

Ravindra Jadeja ran through a strong South African and Australian sides....made Michael Clarke his bunny and got Devillers a couple of times....doesn't make them any lesser players

 

[blue_champion]

^So Pakistan's success against Ali cannot be used as a benchmark.

Going by that logic Ali had Misbah in a spin too.

India's performance against Mo Ali can be nominated as the ********* of the decade easily.

 

[#GreenRoars]

If it is a ODI/T20 game...I would be more concerned if our batsmen were playing M.Ali than Yasir Shah...even though one is a 3rd grade bowler and the other is world class

But the problem is, it's Test, not LOI

 

[Zain Zaidi]

He has said this before as well. Yes, it's quite a compliment from the best

Yes he said this during pak Eng uae tests when he a practice session with yasir and rashid in seperate days

 

[Zain Zaidi]

Shame his Googly is so underused though. I think Tahir has the best Googly I've seen.

If Shah can get more positive in his use of the Googly he'd be an even better bowler.

Lollll I'm guessing you guys didnot watched the whole match like I did cuz nowadays I'm "wela"

According to what I've been observing yasir shah is nowadays using a googly which is not released from the back of the hand but like a leg break.

I think saj posted a tweet like this from yasir shah:
"I will unveil my new disguised googly in the tests''

Indeed he has accomplished in doing this and he did bowled some classical wrong'uns rarely from the back of hand(basically quite easy to identify if batsman's watching the hand) but his this new googly doesnot turns a mile but enough for lbw and looks like a terribly bowled leg break.
Johnny Bairstow was looking sooo helpless on 1st innings lolll expecting if this ball is gonna be leg break if this ball gonna be a leg break but surprisingly yasir didnot used his leg breaks much like he used his wrong'uns in test matches except from round the wicket angle.

Basically I experiment a lot of deliveries on my roof in mean time with cricket ball so you can yourself ball this delivery by putting your third and forth finger on the ball's surface not seam and bowl normally. If you cannot bowl it still try widening the gap of your first 2 fingers and put more pressure on the tips of fingers like yasir does.

And by the way tahir uses his googlies 4 times in a over imo as warne says it too new bowlers try to just bowl a different variation every delivery and eventually their stock delivery is not much effective anymore. So you guys must have noticed tahir's leg break is like a topspinner now

This "using too much variations" in a single over was the reason for end of saqlain mushtaq's career(IN MY OPINION)because knee injury should not be enough to end a spinner's career.

Indeed, but he hasn't the best Googly.

 

[Sherlock]

Lollll I'm guessing you guys didnot watched the whole match like I did cuz nowadays I'm "wela"

According to what I've been observing yasir shah is nowadays using a googly which is not released from the back of the hand but like a leg break.

I think saj posted a tweet like this from yasir shah:
"I will unveil my new disguised googly in the tests''

Indeed he has accomplished in doing this and he did bowled some classical wrong'uns rarely from the back of hand(basically quite easy to identify if batsman's watching the hand) but his this new googly doesnot turns a mile but enough for lbw and looks like a terribly bowled leg break.
Johnny Bairstow was looking sooo helpless on 1st innings lolll expecting if this ball is gonna be leg break if this ball gonna be a leg break but surprisingly yasir didnot used his leg breaks much like he used his wrong'uns in test matches except from round the wicket angle.

Basically I experiment a lot of deliveries on my roof in mean time with cricket ball so you can yourself ball this delivery by putting your third and forth finger on the ball's surface not seam and bowl normally. If you cannot bowl it still try widening the gap of your first 2 fingers and put more pressure on the tips of fingers like yasir does.

And by the way tahir uses his googlies 4 times in a over imo as warne says it too new bowlers try to just bowl a different variation every delivery and eventually their stock delivery is not much effective anymore. So you guys must have noticed tahir's leg break is like a topspinner now

This "using too much variations" in a single over was the reason for end of saqlain mushtaq's career(IN MY OPINION)because knee injury should not be enough to end a spinner's career.

What has that got to do with what I said and you quoting me?

I'm not talking about the Test that just finished but more-so his career thus far. There's no doubt his Googly isn't the best and he hasn't perfected it yet. It's all good he's trying out other deliveries in the nets but a ripping Googly is also a lethal delivery in the arsenal.

 

[Zain Zaidi]

What has that got to do with what I said and you quoting me?

I'm not talking about the Test that just finished but more-so his career thus far. There's no doubt his Googly isn't the best and he hasn't perfected it yet. It's all good he's trying out other deliveries in the nets but a ripping Googly is also a lethal delivery in the arsenal.

Ah i see,lol I misunderstood

 

[Khizr96]

There is scarcity of proper method and person of identifying talents in Pakistan.That's why bowler like Yasir is debuted at late age.

Even our late debutants are better than your dhaka pitch youngsters!

 

[Mainul]

Even our late debutants are better than your dhaka pitch youngsters!

Many Pakistani players won't get chance in our present ODI team . Pakistan is a very very strong test side than that of ours but not in ODIs.And Dhaka pitch is more sporting than your home UAE where ICC feels comfort and confidence to host ODI and T20 world cup which UAE even can't dream of.So stop whining and crying and try to understand anyone's post before commenting.I wanted to say that Yasir is an exceptional talent who should have been played at least 50 tests by now. But Pakistani selectors don't possess enough talent as a selector to find out real talent and give chance to the deserving players.Nothing in my post to underestimate Pakistan.

 

[London_Lahori]

Lol.All you can talk about is M.Ali.Well Indians took him on and were out playing shots to score runs as the pacers strangled the runs.They took risks againist him and got out.

The same M.Ali took out your best batsmen YK and Misbah at Lords.

Playing shots is part of cricket, stop using it as an excuse.

 

[Rayyman]

Many Pakistani players won't get chance in our present ODI team . Pakistan is a very very strong test side than that of ours but not in ODIs.And Dhaka pitch is more sporting than your home UAE where ICC feels comfort and confidence to host ODI and T20 world cup which UAE even can't dream of.So stop whining and crying and try to understand anyone's post before commenting.I wanted to say that Yasir is an exceptional talent who should have been played at least 50 tests by now. But Pakistani selectors don't possess enough talent as a selector to find out real talent and give chance to the deserving players.Nothing in my post to underestimate Pakistan.

You guys might've beat us in the previous ODI series but I think we're better now because of guys like Malik and Amir who hace since been brought back and also your team doesn't play much competitive cricket while most of ours are playing in A tour, CPL or Test series.

 

[Mainul]

You guys might've beat us in the previous ODI series but I think we're better now because of guys like Malik and Amir who hace since been brought back and also your team doesn't play much competitive cricket while most of ours are playing in A tour, CPL or Test series.

Pakistan had Haris Sohail in that series and he is thousands time better batsman than Malik. Malik only scores on phatta wickets against weak attacks.Malik also doesn't bowl regular and his offspins are venomless.So i am not sure whether adding Malik is beneficial or curse for Pakistan.Rather Pakistan should invest on young promising all rounders like Aamer Yamin,Hasan Ali or Newaz.Regarding Aamir he is a class bowler no doubt but he is not at his best yet. He needs more time. He was not unplayable for Bangladeshi players in Bangladesh Premiere league but he definitely bowling well as a player who remained gameless for 5 long years.So present Bangladesh ODI team is still strong than that of Pakistan in my opinion.

 

[Thivagar]

Lol.All you can talk about is M.Ali.Well Indians took him on and were out playing shots to score runs as the pacers strangled the runs.They took risks againist him and got out.

The same M.Ali took out your best batsmen YK and Misbah at Lords.

You think you are defending your team, but you are only adding embarrassment to your team. Wonder why India has the least number of neutral fans ? and always get roasted by everyone right, left and centre ?

 

[MMHS]

You think you are defending your team, but you are only adding embarrassment to your team. Wonder why India has the least number of neutral fans ? and always get roasted by everyone right, left and centre ?

Basically this ....

 

[sshakir411]

blue_champion saying please don't judge our spin playing ability on Moeen Ali's career best figures but judge Pakistan on Marcus Norths'. pretty typical...

while Joshilla making the case that because Indian batsmen are so aggressive they end up throwing away their wickets to the spinners...but we still the best

says a lot about Indian fans

 

[rollingstoned]

CJ is all over the place with his straw man argument of anti-India bias and utter denial in recognizing that Indians aren't that great at playing spin nowadays which even most other Indian posters can acknowledge.

 

[#GreenRoars]

Strange to see some people saying that Indian players were trying to hit hard Moeen Ali for runs and that's why they lost their wickets.

Risk??? I don't think so batters were trying to smash Moeen Ali.

3rd Test when Moeen took 6 wickets in 2nd innings:

Pujara 0 (1) Caught at slip.

Kohli 10(24) Caught by keeper.

Jadeja 10 (27) tried to play a wild shot.

Leave Kumar, Shami and Pankaj Singh.

in 4th Test, he gave 39 runs in 13 overs

Pujara 0(1) LBW

Rahane 1 (6) full length, driven, caught and bowled

Dhoni 0 (3) own the pitch, looks to go over the top,

Jadega 0(3) pushes forward, ball spins, caught at slip


Doesn't look like every one was trying to hit hard Moeen Ali.

 

[MMHS]

Strange to see some people saying that Indian players were trying to hit hard Moeen Ali for runs and that's why they lost their wickets.

Risk??? I don't think so batters were trying to smash Moeen Ali.

3rd Test when Moeen took 6 wickets in 2nd innings:

Pujara 0 (1) Caught at slip.

Kohli 10(24) Caught by keeper.

Jadeja 10 (27) tried to play a wild shot.

Leave Kumar, Shami and Pankaj Singh.

in 4th Test, he gave 39 runs in 13 overs

Pujara 0(1) LBW

Rahane 1 (6) full length, driven, caught and bowled

Dhoni 0 (3) own the pitch, looks to go over the top,

Jadega 0(3) pushes forward, ball spins, caught at slip


Doesn't look like every one was trying to hit hard Moeen Ali.

Your hate for India is nauseating ...................

 

[#GreenRoars]

Your hate for India is nauseating ...................

Astaghfirullah, i never hated any one except Kohli, besides it India is my 2nd fav team, obviously after Pakistan.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Joshila Bahi all over the shop in this thread

 

[Surf]

Cricketjoshila using the Mumbai Logic

Great Job

 

[imranq]

Too early to tell but yasir is on the right path. If only he had gotten a chance earlier.

 

[GenericBrand]

CJ not even getting support from his Indian brethren in this regard )

 

[IAJ]

How I weep for humanity.

Brother...don't take this bad....but you don't have enough IQ to understand my posts and I don't have enough patience to explain it to you.

Good day to you sir.

Seriously poor post. Didn't expect it from you actually.

Edit: Saw that you apologized so all well

 

[IAJ]

I actually opned this thread to see why it had reached so many posts, but not surprisd it was an India v Pakistan discussion going on.

 

[blue_champion]

You think you are defending your team, but you are only adding embarrassment to your team. Wonder why India has the least number of neutral fans ? and always get roasted by everyone right, left and centre ?

There is nothing wrong in what he said......likes of Gavaskar etc had the same opinion that we took Moeen Ali like a joke.....Same way Clarke has been Jadeja's bunny or even AB who got out to him a few times.

With Moeen the joke did not last but with sir Jadeja the joke overturned on the haters....simple as that.

Yes gifting wickets to Moeen was embarrassing.....just like succumbing to Marcus North...things like that happen in cricket....Ganguly ran through a very strong Pakistan line-up not once but twice....things happen.

I appreciate the likes of Herath,Ashwin and Yasir Shah who have still kept the art of conventional spin bowling alive as most teams seem to struggle to darters and "unorthodox" bowlers

 

[blue_champion]

Strange to see some people saying that Indian players were trying to hit hard Moeen Ali for runs and that's why they lost their wickets.

Risk??? I don't think so batters were trying to smash Moeen Ali.

3rd Test when Moeen took 6 wickets in 2nd innings:

Pujara 0 (1) Caught at slip.

Kohli 10(24) Caught by keeper.

Jadeja 10 (27) tried to play a wild shot.

Leave Kumar, Shami and Pankaj Singh.

in 4th Test, he gave 39 runs in 13 overs

Pujara 0(1) LBW

Rahane 1 (6) full length, driven, caught and bowled

Dhoni 0 (3) own the pitch, looks to go over the top,

Jadega 0(3) pushes forward, ball spins, caught at slip


Doesn't look like every one was trying to hit hard Moeen Ali.

You have the likes of Anderson,Broad,Finn etc etc coming at you relentlessly and then you see Moeen Ali you tend tio relax....relaxing against someone is just not getting caught at the boundary from a slog...LBW or getting caught in the slips happens when you relax and lose concentration

 

[MMHS]

You have the likes of Anderson,Broad,Finn etc etc coming at you relentlessly and then you see Moeen Ali you tend tio relax....relaxing against someone is just not getting caught at the boundary from a slog...LBW or getting caught in the slips happens when you relax and lose concentration

I thought, the digits given in parenthesis, adjacent to the scores were balls played for that innings; but I guess I am wrong here - those are actually hours batted for.

 

[Enforcer]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

Although i agree that current indian players are not that good as the previous generation while playing spin, the facts and logic that you have given in your previous posts are misleading.

Tahir is not a good bet for Test - he averages 40 in Test; but he averages half in the 4 Test he played against IND in IND. Accepted, those were absolute shockers of turners, but then AB & Amla batted for 150 overs on last day at one of the tracks

In that particular match Tahir only took two wickets and gone for @4.12 in the 1st innings

but in recent SRL tour SRL & Herath rolled this same Indian side defending ~150; couple of weeks back PAK chased 378 with 4 down against them.

Completely out of context as herath wasn't even playing in that match where pakistan did that feat. so why that comparison.

Lyon took 12 on an absolute belter

Wrong. It wasn't belter , it was a turner. India did a huge mistake by not playing Ashwin in that match. You have mentioned Lyon 12 wickets, but didn't mention kohli master class against the same bowler where he scored 140 odd at s/r of 80 in 4th innings.

Regarding Mumbai test, well we lost match against because of our bowlers and not because our batsman. If you followed that series , then you would admit that our 1st innings score of 327 was already touted as a match winning as no body thought england would survive in that rank turner. But our Pathetic bowling, especially from Ashwin led us down. In that series swann + panesar >> Ojha + (inexperienced) Ashwin. And that is why we lost that match.

Our only failure in recent times has been against moeen ali, which i do admit is embarrasing.

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

Although i agree that current indian players are not that good as the previous generation while playing spin, the facts and logic that you have given in your previous posts are misleading.



In that particular match Tahir only took two wickets and gone for @4.12 in the 1st innings



Completely out of context as herath wasn't even playing in that match where pakistan did that feat. so why that comparison.



Wrong. It wasn't belter , it was a turner. India did a huge mistake by not playing Ashwin in that match. You have mentioned Lyon 12 wickets, but didn't mention kohli master class against the same bowler where he scored 140 odd at s/r of 80 in 4th innings.

Regarding Mumbai test, well we lost match against because of our bowlers and not because our batsman. If you followed that series , then you would admit that our 1st innings score of 327 was already touted as a match winning as no body thought england would survive in that rank turner. But our Pathetic bowling, especially from Ashwin led us down. In that series swann + panesar >> Ojha + (inexperienced) Ashwin. And that is why we lost that match.

Our only failure in recent times has been against moeen ali, which i do admit is embarrasing.

I can't argue if someone thinks Adelaide is a turner. Virat played brilliantly, for his credit - but he is no where near even VS or Ganguly when it comes to play spin; I am not even comparing Azhar, Tendulkar, Dravid, GG or Sehwag. Lyon is a decent spinner, but if a finger spinner takes 12 against Indian batsmen on Adelaide track, instead of trying to prove someone wrong, you should study some history.

But for the other part, your post is an attempt to steal the credit of one of the best ever Test innings played against spin at Mumbai. That was a turning wicket, but you have to be poor in batting to lose by 10 wickets, batting 1st on that track. IND in 2nd innings were all out for 130 or so, ENG made 56/0 - it can't be only for Ashwin's fault, you know. England won that series because easily they were the better spin playing team - don't accept that, fine.

Regarding Tahir - he had 14 wickets in 3 Test (Bangalore, hardly bowled) at 21; and had a poor match at Delhi - that only indicates what he did in other 2 Tests.

I know Herath didn't play that Test, Kaushal took 5 in 1st innings. BUT, Herath was dropped from that Test, and SRL won't drop a bowler who had outstanding record against same team unless it made sense. You might not have noticed, in that comparison, I wrote "Herath & SRL" - that's the cover for this uncalled for argument, which I knew would be mentioned. A side chased 377/4 in 5th day, another side 3 weeks later lost 9 wickets in a session chasing 160 - we can argue that it doesn't indicates anything as both teams were not identical.

Look, this thread is regarding Yasir & indirectly his achievement vs Warne. Now, what Warne, in another thread I didn't even put him ahead of Quadir or Mushi for the short span of career & the quality of spin play these days. SAF is going through a tough patch now, but one of the reason they were No. 1 & won/drawn Series in IND/SRL/UAE was their spin playing capacity just about couple of years back; and YK, Misbah & Sarfarz is simply different class, in contemporary world when it comes to spin play; even MoHa, Asad & Ahzar as well. You are talking about the SR of current Indian batting - please check the SR of PAK team against spinners.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Current Indian team is a good player of spin must be a joke.

They actually are a better team against fast bowling.

 

[Muhammad10]

There is nothing wrong in what he said......likes of Gavaskar etc had the same opinion that we took Moeen Ali like a joke.....Same way Clarke has been Jadeja's bunny or even AB who got out to him a few times.

With Moeen the joke did not last but with sir Jadeja the joke overturned on the haters....simple as that.

Yes gifting wickets to Moeen was embarrassing.....just like succumbing to Marcus North...things like that happen in cricket....Ganguly ran through a very strong Pakistan line-up not once but twice....things happen.

I appreciate the likes of Herath,Ashwin and Yasir Shah who have still kept the art of conventional spin bowling alive as most teams seem to struggle to darters and "unorthodox" bowlers

Not sure why you are attempting to equate getting rolled over by Moeen Ali in English (i.e. not spin friendly) conditions with succumbing to Jadeja's brilliance on Indian dust-bowls. Even leaving aside the massive difference between the challenge of facing spin in India compared to facing it in England, you are still implying that losing your wicket to Jadeja is similar to losing your wicket to Moeen. Are you trying to portray Jadeja as some kind of a part timer?

Objectively speaking, Jadeja is India's most effective Test spinner. He averages 23.76 in comparison to Ashwin's 25.39 with a far lower economy rate. In Asia, he averages 15.70 vs Ashwin's 20.47. Both are great in Asia, although Jadeja is clearly more unplayable. Outside Asia, both are a story of mediocrity, but even there he's less poor than Ashwin (Averages 46.16 to Ashwin's 56.58).

The statistics clearly prove that both are excellent in spin friendly conditions and rather poor elsewhere. Ashwin arguably has greater long term potential despite being older than Jadeja. So far, however, Jadeja has clearly been a superior performer in Test cricket, therefore, if you are attempting to pass him off as a part timer, where exactly does that leave Ashwin?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I can't argue if someone thinks Adelaide is a turner. Virat played brilliantly, for his credit - but he is no where near even VS or Ganguly when it comes to play spin; I am not even comparing Azhar, Tendulkar, Dravid, GG or Sehwag. Lyon is a decent spinner, but if a finger spinner takes 12 against Indian batsmen on Adelaide track, instead of trying to prove someone wrong, you should study some history.

But for the other part, your post is an attempt to steal the credit of one of the best ever Test innings played against spin at Mumbai. That was a turning wicket, but you have to be poor in batting to lose by 10 wickets, batting 1st on that track. IND in 2nd innings were all out for 130 or so, ENG made 56/0 - it can't be only for Ashwin's fault, you know. England won that series because easily they were the better spin playing team - don't accept that, fine.

Regarding Tahir - he had 14 wickets in 3 Test (Bangalore, hardly bowled) at 21; and had a poor match at Delhi - that only indicates what he did in other 2 Tests.

I know Herath didn't play that Test, Kaushal took 5 in 1st innings. BUT, Herath was dropped from that Test, and SRL won't drop a bowler who had outstanding record against same team unless it made sense. You might not have noticed, in that comparison, I wrote "Herath & SRL" - that's the cover for this uncalled for argument, which I knew would be mentioned. A side chased 377/4 in 5th day, another side 3 weeks later lost 9 wickets in a session chasing 160 - we can argue that it doesn't indicates anything as both teams were not identical.

Look, this thread is regarding Yasir & indirectly his achievement vs Warne. Now, what Warne, in another thread I didn't even put him ahead of Quadir or Mushi for the short span of career & the quality of spin play these days. SAF is going through a tough patch now, but one of the reason they were No. 1 & won/drawn Series in IND/SRL/UAE was their spin playing capacity just about couple of years back; and YK, Misbah & Sarfarz is simply different class, in contemporary world when it comes to spin play; even MoHa, Asad & Ahzar as well. You are talking about the SR of current Indian batting - please check the SR of PAK team against spinners.

VVS is a greater player of spin than Dravid.

Adelaide 4th innings had turned into a rank turner.

 

[Dios]

Yasir Shah is undoubtedly destined for greatness in Test cricket. If he can become more potent at delivering the googly then he can be just as lethal in LOIs as well.

 

[MMHS]

VVS is a greater player of spin than Dravid.

Adelaide 4th innings had turned into a rank turner.

Marginal - VVS was better attacker, but Rahul as well. It's very close, but, may be.

I have watched the Adelaide Test, so have a bit of idea regarding the rank turner. However, Lyon took 5 wickets in 1st innings as well; may be it was turning more on day 3.

 

[street cricketer]

Marginal - VVS was better attacker, but Rahul as well. It's very close, but, may be.

I have watched the Adelaide Test, so have a bit of idea regarding the rank turner. However, Lyon took 5 wickets in 1st innings as well; may be it was turning more on day 3.

Indians are indeed weak against spin but I don't think you can blame much on the Adelaide test.

Lyon got a 5-134 runs in the 1st innings and in the 2nd innings, the pitch was spitting and turning. So to make over 140 runs at 80 sr was a remarkable achievement. But let's be honest, as good as Vijay and Kohli batted in that innings, India were always going to lose that. Chasing a stiff target on a turning pitch on the 5th day was always going to be an uphill task but they went for it anyway. I would've blamed them if they had decided to bat for a draw and still lost.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Marginal - VVS was better attacker, but Rahul as well. It's very close, but, may be.

I have watched the Adelaide Test, so have a bit of idea regarding the rank turner. However, Lyon took 5 wickets in 1st innings as well; may be it was turning more on day 3.

Lyon took 5 in innings 1 too but at that time it was not turning as much.

Can't judge pitch just based on how many wickets someone takes or else it would lead to lots of weird data. Case in point, Jaddu took 0 wickets in Nagpur SA 2015 2nd innings while he took a 5fer in Delhi SA 2015 1st innings. But what were the pitches actually like?

In the 4 innings Adelaide 2014, the ball was turning and jumping sharply.

 

[Thivagar]

There is nothing wrong in what he said......likes of Gavaskar etc had the same opinion that we took Moeen Ali like a joke.....Same way Clarke has been Jadeja's bunny or even AB who got out to him a few times.

With Moeen the joke did not last but with sir Jadeja the joke overturned on the haters....simple as that.

Yes gifting wickets to Moeen was embarrassing.....just like succumbing to Marcus North...things like that happen in cricket....Ganguly ran through a very strong Pakistan line-up not once but twice....things happen.

I appreciate the likes of Herath,Ashwin and Yasir Shah who have still kept the art of conventional spin bowling alive as most teams seem to struggle to darters and "unorthodox" bowlers

I was talking about him defending India and everything related to India all the time. Tagged the wrong post lol.

 

[sully3]

Anyone else waiting for Yasir to ball a few variations ? Even Root today tried the arm ball today and nearly got a nick of YK.

Just a bit strange he's only bowled 2 different deliveries all summer when we know he has 5 or 6 different balls.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Anyone else waiting for Yasir to ball a few variations ? Even Root today tried the arm ball today and nearly got a nick of YK.

Just a bit strange he's only bowled 2 different deliveries all summer when we know he has 5 or 6 different balls.

The margin for error on these pitches is too small for him to experiment. Remember this is his first time playing in overseas conditions.

 

[Mamoon]

You have to bowl to your strengths. Yasir's strength is his control, not his variations.

Yes he had a lot of luck at Lord's (some very poor shots + marginal decisions going his way), but his control was good.

In the last 3 innings, he hasn't been very tight (except for the post-tea spell yesterday) and since the English batsmen are no longer self-destructing against him, he's lacking in penetration.