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Younis Khan vs Michael Clarke - The better Test batsman?

Younis Khan vs Michael Clarke

  • Younis Khan

    Votes: 75 72.1%

  • Michael Clarke

    Votes: 29 27.9%
  • Total voters
    104
saeed-sohail said:
If it was that easy and Moyo love bounce why did YK out perform him at OT and Perth. When you are bowled out for 100 odd 44 is a good knock in the context.
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Younus outperformed Yousuf at OT and Perth by how many runs?

You know what? You can have this battle. :))
 
MalikMohsin said:
Younus outperformed Yousuf at OT and Perth by how many runs?

You know what? You can have this battle. :))
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In four innings over two tests YK scored 165 runs @41.25.
Yousaf scored 81 runs over 4 innings @20.25

Yousaf was dismissed before YK three times despite coming in to bat after YK.

Yousaf loved extra bounce. Right he did.
 
Why are we arguing over Younis vs MoYo?

Both did great for Pakistan and that is all that matters. MoYo had the elegance and touch of a genius while YK has unflappable temperament and ability to work within his limits.
 
Mamoon said:
Why are we arguing over Younis vs MoYo?

Both did great for Pakistan and that is all that matters. MoYo had the elegance and touch of a genius while YK has unflappable temperament and ability to work within his limits.
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It was Malik sahab who brought Moyo in this debate saying Yousaf is superior to YK and how Yousaf and Clarke is a fair comparison. And breaking news Yousaf loved extra bounce. Sure he did as shown by 81 run aggregate at Perth and OT when he was at his peak.

And funnily enough YK was lucky not tour Aus after that as he would've struggled. YK improved on his second tour to Eng and SA facing far better attacks then what Aus had in 09.
 
saeed-sohail said:
It was Malik sahab who brought Moyo in this debate saying Yousaf is superior to YK and how Yousaf and Clarke is a fair comparison. And breaking news Yousaf loved extra bounce. Sure he did as shown by 81 run aggregate at Perth and OT when he was at his peak.

And funnily enough YK was lucky not tour Aus after that as he would've struggled. YK improved on his second tour to Eng and SA facing far better attacks then what Aus had in 09.
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Yousuf is the superior batsman no doubt but Younis is on par with Miandad in terms of productivity. I'd rather watch MoYo bat, but I won't pick him in my team ahead of Younis.
 
Mamoon said:
Yousuf is the superior batsman no doubt but Younis is on par with Miandad in terms of productivity. I'd rather watch MoYo bat, but I won't pick him in my team ahead of Younis.
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Superior on ability yes.
Superior on performance no way.
This is like two students in the same class trying to achieve better grades. A has the brains but lacks commitment and work ethic B on the other hand has above average ability but puts the work in. Chances are hard working student would do better then lazy but brainier student.
 
saeed-sohail said:
Superior on ability yes.
Superior on performance no way.
This is like two students in the same class trying to achieve better grades. A has the brains but lacks commitment and work ethic B on the other hand has above average ability but puts the work in. Chances are hard working student would do better then lazy but brainier student.
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100% agree.
 
I honestly believe 2006 was the worst thing that happened to Yousaf. After that amazing year he seemed to lose drive and performances suffered as a result.
Its like Arsenal invincibles and Manchester United of last decade. Arsenal did wonderful in 04 but haven't won the league since United on the other hand motivated themselves to dominate for next 10 years.
 
saeed-sohail said:
I honestly believe 2006 was the worst thing that happened to Yousaf. After that amazing year he seemed to lose drive and performances suffered as a result.
Its like Arsenal invincibles and Manchester United of last decade. Arsenal did wonderful in 04 but haven't won the league since United on the other hand motivated themselves to dominate for next 10 years.
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MoYo's career went down the drain when he threw a tantrum for not getting selected for the World T20 2007 - reminiscent of YK's tantrum for not getting picked in ODIs.

After that he went down the ICL path and all that stuff. He missed out on so many hundreds and runs just because of his attitude.

That's the difference b/w him and YK; both have bloated egos, but one doesn't let the bickering affect his game and we know who that is.
 
Mamoon said:
MoYo's career went down the drain when he threw a tantrum for not getting selected for the World T20 2007 - reminiscent of YK's tantrum for not getting picked in ODIs.

After that he went down the ICL path and all that stuff. He missed out on so many hundreds and runs just because of his attitude.

That's the difference b/w him and YK; both have bloated egos, but one doesn't let the bickering affect his game and we know who that is.
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Moyo of pre 06 wouldn't have thrown that dummy. Success went to his head and he was transformed from humble shy young man to the most egoistic man.
 
saeed-sohail said:
Moyo of pre 06 wouldn't have thrown that dummy. Success went to his head and he was transformed from humble shy young man to the most egoistic man.
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Agree with that he started believing the hype surrounding him. Acting like a :don and he felt that he was above the PCB.
 
I rate Clarke very highly, at one point, he was knocking on the door of Punter/Chappell for getting the crown of second best batsman Australia has ever produced. But his form of late is a worry.

Younis Khan for me. His resurgence has been amazing.
 
saeed-sohail said:
In four innings over two tests YK scored 165 runs @41.25.
Yousaf scored 81 runs over 4 innings @20.25

Yousaf was dismissed before YK three times despite coming in to bat after YK.

Yousaf loved extra bounce. Right he did.
Click to expand...

Some nice stats there.
 
and once again same number of centuries! both got 28 test centuries now

the are amazing when we talk about conversion rate clarke has 27 fifties and younus has 29
 
Another thing you forgot in the OP, both have triple hundreds. :yk2
 
Clarke for me. Cannot see YK playing the kind of innings where Clarke was pulverized by morkel. Although I can see Clarke play YK type innings.
 
Pete Rose said:
Clarke for me. Cannot see YK playing the kind of innings where Clarke was pulverized by morkel. Although I can see Clarke play YK type innings.
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You mean you seen Clarke scoring a Triple ton against Murli or a 267 vs Harbajhan and Kumble in their backyard??
 
Arsal_AK said:
You mean you seen Clarke scoring a Triple ton against Murli or a 267 vs Harbajhan and Kumble in their backyard??
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i see clarke playing a long innings against spinners, dont see the same with yk.
i know people get mortally offended by this but yk went "fishing" on some of the toughest away tours Pakistan had in the last 5 years: against england and australia in 2010. Its not like he is a complete flat track bully, he did get a century in cape town when Pakistan toured South Africa last year. But I have always rated playing quality pace higher than spinners.
 
"dont see the same against pacers from YK...is what it should say above
 
YK is very good against spin and Asian tracks, where as average on green and bounce... Clark is opposite, very good on green and bounce and avg in spinning tracks. Now with his back injury, he will and has struggle more on low and slow (it hurts when you try to use crease and that too for long periods of time)...

Overall I am not sure if Asians have produced any player that can play green and bounce with authority. The only player that come to my mind is Tendulkar. But Tendulkar and Lara both have not being tested against bumpers as much as pervious generation because of rule changes. My reading was that they were not that great at facing constant barrage of bumpers, nowhere near as good as Viv. Other than that they mastered almost everything you can throw at them!!
 
Younus is looking clearly ahead now by performing even at this age and averaging 54+ while Clarke average is only going down with failures after failures and now he is averaging around 49 so there is a possibility his career is going to end with an average of less than 50.
 
Whats with this comparison anyway?

Both are totally different kind of batsmen. Have nothing in common. Different roles, style etc
 
Slog said:
Whats with this comparison anyway?

Both are totally different kind of batsmen. Have nothing in common. Different roles, style etc
Click to expand...

They had almost similar numbers when this thread was created so comparison was about it. Had same number of centuries and conversion rate, total runs scored, very good players of spin, and back bone of the team batting line at that time.
 
Stats wise its close, aesthetically you might give it to Clarke and even if we just limit to tests (Khan Sahib's strongest suit) I'd give the edge to Clarke.

However, in terms of match-play or playing the situation - i.e. getting your team out of hole, making runs on 4/5th day pitch - then I'd go with Younis, an absolute fortress at times.

Additionally, when Younis bats well, his partner often bats well - and I believe there is a link there (Azhar and Shafiq may well agree).
 
Kaka4pope said:
Additionally, when Younis bats well, his partner often bats well - and I believe there is a link there (Azhar and Shafiq may well agree).
Click to expand...

True he knows how to guide youngsters and they feel so comfortable with him on the other end.
 
I rate YK, far superior all-around player.
YK is even better than the much vaunted Sangakkara never mind Clarke.
 
Compare KP and Clarke to each other and leave these comparisons with Younis. Khan has moved up a tier.
 
A year or so ago I would have said Clarke, but credit to Younis for not completely falling apart towards the back end of his career. He's still performing really well despite his age.
 
The thread is half done. Second part to be completed in a year or so.

At the moment YK has comfortably taken the lead but he also has a couple of tough tours coming up so anything is possible.
 
iafzal said:
The thread is half done. Second part to be completed in a year or so.

At the moment YK has comfortably taken the lead but he also has a couple of tough tours coming up so anything is possible.
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You can make a case for either based on batting ability (I'd side with Clarke, superior player of pace and very good against spin in his prime) but Younis is certainly well ahead in terms of longevity.
 
Younis has a superior test record. More runs and hundreds (30 in only 101 tests, that is a phenomenal record!) and better average than Clarke even though he has played fewer tests than the latter
 
People saying that Younis and Clarke are on the same level are kidding themselves. One is a great batsman who just might end up as an ATG. The other has ended his career as a very good player and nothing more.
 
Mamoon said:
You can make a case for either based on batting ability (I'd side with Clarke, superior player of pace and very good against spin in his prime) but Younis is certainly well ahead in terms of longevity.
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In the end output trumps potential and ability because they are all only words if there is not substance to show for it.
So Yes YK has delivered more times for Pak than Clarke for AUS. His record speaks for itself. No doubt Clarke is a better player of pace but he better be playing in/for AUS.
 
iafzal said:
In the end output trumps potential and ability because they are all only words if there is not substance to show for it.
So Yes YK has delivered more times for Pak than Clarke for AUS. His record speaks for itself. No doubt Clarke is a better player of pace but he better be playing in/for AUS.
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Yes people underrate longevity. Credit to Younis for maintaining his form, fitness and motivation level in spite of all the controversies. The fact that he was a late bloomer also helped him in this regard. It wasn't until his late 20's that he established himself.
 
Bilal7 said:
People saying that Younis and Clarke are on the same level are kidding themselves. One is a great batsman who just might end up as an ATG. The other has ended his career as a very good player and nothing more.
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Only in Pakistan is Younis Khan an ATG.

Yes I believe in the primacy of test cricket but in the modern era an ATG should be be flexible enough to at least be adequate at ODIs.
 
Still Clarke. if YK has a stupendous 2016, maybe he can be mentioned in the same breath.
if he has a moderate 2016, he will stay below Clarke, as is reality.
 
YK has been very lucky of late to play most of his career in sub-continent where he does really well. Best player of spin in world cricket alongside Sarfaraz. Malik comes very close too.

Clarke vs spin is so overrated.

I hope Clarke finishes with a big hundred. Very good player. But PAK fans won't rate him that highly, as he hardly performed against our attacks.

Most people in cricket consider YK a legend. He will finish as a legend for sure. Esp if he gets 10,000+ runs with 35 tons.
 
People calling Younis Khan a legend are kidding themselves. He is a very good test player, that's it. Younis Khan can't dominate pace bowling, and often looks 'amateurish' whilst playing quality pace bowling. It's one of the reasons he was never a good ODI player.

Clarke on the other hand was brilliant against pace, and good against spin (not as good as Younis). He was a very good ODI player in his day. The only thing that really holds him back is the fact that his career ended too early due to injury.

To cut it short, Younis only beats Clarke in spin playing ability, and keeping himself in good shape.
 
There is no comparison between the two when you factor in ODIs.

Clarke was a much better ODI batsman than most people think.
 
If only tests are considered (since the thread is about tests), Younis has achieved more as a player than Clarke. Though if I have to pick one of them on their peak, it would be Clarke.

But none of them is an ATG. Younis is a Pakistan's great only while Clarke isn't even Australia's great (because the standard is much higher).

If Younis does well in next year overseas tours (which is unlikely), and maintain his average along with getting 10k runs, he may just sneak into Kallis, Dravid, Sanga category, but for now, he is no ATG.
 
Stallion__ said:
If only tests are considered (since the thread is about tests), Younis has achieved more as a player than Clarke. Though if I have to pick one of them on their peak, it would be Clarke.

But none of them is an ATG. Younis is a Pakistan's great only while Clarke isn't even Australia's great (because the standard is much higher).

If Younis does well in next year overseas tours (which is unlikely), and maintain his average along with getting 10k runs, he may just sneak into Kallis, Dravid, Sanga category, but for now, he is no ATG.
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Clarke is easily the best Test bat Australia have produced since Ponting and Gilchrist. How is he not an Australian great? 5-0 Ashes win and a World Cup victory to his name to boot.
 
YK the Test bat is very underrated. Where he loses points tho is in ODIs. In Tests YK is ahead of Clarke for me but overall nothing much between the two imo. Maybe Clarke by just a whisker.
 
Saqs said:
Clarke is easily the best Test bat Australia have produced since Ponting and Gilchrist. How is he not an Australian great? 5-0 Ashes win and a World Cup victory to his name to boot.
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Many players from Aus have the same honor, don't by default make them Australian great.

As I said earlier, Clarke not being an Australian don't have anything to do with him being lesser than YK. YK is just marginally ahead. Clarke would be somewhere around Hussey, Martyn level, all of whom are very fine players.

Being a country's great, a player must be within top 8-10 players for that country in its all time history, and I am sure, Clarke won't be there in most Aus top 10 batsmen lists.
 
Stallion__ said:
Many players from Aus have the same honor, don't by default make them Australian great.

As I said earlier, Clarke not being an Australian don't have anything to do with him being lesser than YK. YK is just marginally ahead. Clarke would be somewhere around Hussey, Martyn level, all of whom are very fine players.

Being a country's great, a player must be within top 8-10 players for that country in its all time history, and I am sure, Clarke won't be there in most Aus top 10 batsmen lists.
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Yes. But they weren't captain. Lol. Strange counter argument that.

He is easily a tier ahead of Hussey and Martyn. The guy has 28 centuries, almost 9,000 runs averaging a notch below 50, and has improved with the additional responsibility of captain across both Test and Odi formats. I'd put him at the same tier as Hayden, and a notch below Ponting and Gilly in terms of recent Test bats for Australia. That makes him a national great, how this is even being argued otherwise is beyond me.
 
In terms of a top 8 even, there's Bradman, Ponting, Chappell, Border, Waugh, Hayden, Gilly, Clarke.
 
Saqs said:
Yes. But they weren't captain. Lol. Strange counter argument that.

He is easily a tier ahead of Hussey and Martyn. The guy has 28 centuries, almost 9,000 runs averaging a notch below 50, and has improved with the additional responsibility of captain across both Test and Odi formats. I'd put him at the same tier as Hayden, and a notch below Ponting and Gilly in terms of recent Test bats for Australia. That makes him a national great, how this is even being argued otherwise is beyond me.
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Well if you look at it that way, then maybe.

I was talking about him strictly as a test batsman, would still be behind Hayden (who is very underrated imo). Ahead of Martyn and Hussey but would belong to same category. Since the thread was about 'YK vs Clarke the test batsman'. So I didn't add the captaincy or LOI performances weights into Clarke's profile.
 
Saqs said:
In terms of a top 8 even, there's Bradman, Ponting, Chappell, Border, Waugh, Hayden, Gilly, Clarke.
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Lol no mate.

A lot many contenders if we consider test batsmen only.

Starting from Trumper, Hill, Macartney, Woodful, Ponsford, Bradman, McCabe, Fingleton, Morris, Harvey to Lawry, Simpson, Chappells, Border, Waughs, Taylor, Gilly, Hayden, Ponting. (I might have missed few)

Clarke won't make it.
 
saeed-sohail said:
I honestly believe 2006 was the worst thing that happened to Yousaf. After that amazing year he seemed to lose drive and performances suffered as a result.
Its like Arsenal invincibles and Manchester United of last decade. Arsenal did wonderful in 04 but haven't won the league since United on the other hand motivated themselves to dominate for next 10 years.
Click to expand...

Mamoon said:
MoYo's career went down the drain when he threw a tantrum for not getting selected for the World T20 2007 - reminiscent of YK's tantrum for not getting picked in ODIs.

After that he went down the ICL path and all that stuff. He missed out on so many hundreds and runs just because of his attitude.

That's the difference b/w him and YK; both have bloated egos, but one doesn't let the bickering affect his game and we know who that is.
Click to expand...

IMO - Yousuf's career came to end during the aftermath of that Sydney Test. He may have not been a fixer but he was the captain at that time and really should have done better - he batting form was poor as well throughout that tour.

The PCB and the management really expected the team to win that game - it may sound harsh but some defeats are simply intolerable and unforgiving (e.g. the 4th test of the ongoing Ashes).

Yes, Yousuf was recalled to the England tour but it was really a short term bandage for another disastrous tour.

The bans handed out to YK, Malik and Rana Naved were just insurance IMO - the real target was MoYo and he paid for it in terms of his career.

Sorry for throwing out conspiracy theories but this is how I have always regarding this saga.
 
Unfair to completely downplay Clarke's achievements. His back problems not only halted but definately led to the regress in his batting big time at the end.

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
 
Pantani said:
A year or so ago I would have said Clarke, but credit to Younis for not completely falling apart towards the back end of his career. He's still performing really well despite his age.
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he's more than just performing well- he's thriving!

Younis is the backbone of a dominant batting line-up
 
hussain.r97 said:
People calling Younis Khan a legend are kidding themselves. He is a very good test player, that's it. Younis Khan can't dominate pace bowling, and often looks 'amateurish' whilst playing quality pace bowling. It's one of the reasons he was never a good ODI player.

Clarke on the other hand was brilliant against pace, and good against spin (not as good as Younis). He was a very good ODI player in his day. The only thing that really holds him back is the fact that his career ended too early due to injury.

To cut it short, Younis only beats Clarke in spin playing ability, and keeping himself in good shape.
Click to expand...

Struggling against quality pace bowling has little to do with being good or bad in ODIs. ODI struggles have more to do with limited range of strokes, limited strike rotation ability and an inability to perform under pressure. YK is an engima, he is probably one of the worst ODI batsmen among top test batsmen ever.

That said, Clarke is definitely ahead of YK as a test as well as an ODI batsman. ( his 151 against SA on a graveyard for batsmen is an example of Clarke's remarkable batting ability)
 
Younis is no all-time great. Don't let a few fanboys delude you.
 
Stallion__ said:
Lol no mate.

A lot many contenders if we consider test batsmen only.

Starting from Trumper, Hill, Macartney, Woodful, Ponsford, Bradman, McCabe, Fingleton, Morris, Harvey to Lawry, Simpson, Chappells, Border, Waughs, Taylor, Gilly, Hayden, Ponting. (I might have missed few)

Clarke won't make it.
Click to expand...

I'm going by runs scored, averages and number of centuries which I would say are important metrics to consider. By all those counts Clarke is easily in the top 8.

Are you seriously putting the likes of Bill Lawry and Mark Waugh ahead of Clarke as Test batsmen? Lol.
 
Saqs said:
Are you seriously putting the likes of Bill Lawry and Mark Waugh ahead of Clarke as Test batsmen?
Click to expand...

Mark Waugh, may not be ahead but Lawry probably is.

You can ask someone else where does Clarke stands among Australian greats if you are not satisfied by me.
 
Last edited:
Mamoon said:
Hasn't played many all-time great knocks, but he can get there if he does next year overseas.
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Has played two or three that come to mind without having to dig up old scorecards. But then again I have a soft spot for YK Superstar ever since he made his debut. You know my hunch about Steve Smith being horribly wrong? Well YK is probably the only right hunch I've had lol.
 
Convict said:
Only in Pakistan is Younis Khan an ATG.

Yes I believe in the primacy of test cricket but in the modern era an ATG should be be flexible enough to at least be adequate at ODIs.
Click to expand...

I think YK being bad in ODI is due to having very limited range of shots and not having an ability to rotate the strike. Well, even only considering the test format, he is not really going to make the cut for ATG.

I somewhat agree here about being adequate in ODI format if you want to be counted as an ATG cricketer in the last 15-20 years. I meant ATG as generic sense without getting into ATG in Test or ODI format. You don't have to be a gun player in ODI but you can't be a bad player. You do have to be at least adequate. If you are bad in ODI then, it means you lack the skill to rotate the strike and have a limited range of shots. It may work in Test but you will struggle in the ODI format big time. That's the story of YK. Then YK has big issue with playing quality pace bowling but I don't think that it made him a poor ODI batsman. His problem is range of shots and strike rotation.

I will see the number of days of cricket for ODI and Test. I am very sure that the number of days for ODIs are pretty high each year in the last 20 years.
 
YK is an all time Pakistani great already; he has achieved more than any other test batsman from Pak at a fantastic career average. He's consistently been a top ten ranked test batsmen for years and years.

He would probably be rated much more highly internationally if he had played for Australia or England and played the amount of tests he was capable of playing. For a man of his age to be scoring such big hundreds regularly is quite an achievement. Imagine if he had played 140 tests by now instead of just 101.
 
IndianWillow said:
Struggling against quality pace bowling has little to do with being good or bad in ODIs. ODI struggles have more to do with limited range of strokes, limited strike rotation ability and an inability to perform under pressure. YK is an engima, he is probably one of the worst ODI batsmen among top test batsmen ever.

That said, Clarke is definitely ahead of YK as a test as well as an ODI batsman. ( his 151 against SA on a graveyard for batsmen is an example of Clarke's remarkable batting ability)
Click to expand...

I said ability to 'dominate pace', which precisely means that he does not have a wide range of strokes against pace bowlers. That is precisely why he does not struggle so much in Test cricket, because he can leave and block the pace all day.
 
So in short scoring runs against pace bowling has more value than scoring against spinners?
 
MC is phenomenally better than YK when it comes to fast bowling.
YK is slightly better than MC when it comes to spin.

I would take MC over YK on any given day.
 
hussain.r97 said:
I said ability to 'dominate pace', which precisely means that he does not have a wide range of strokes against pace bowlers. That is precisely why he does not struggle so much in Test cricket, because he can leave and block the pace all day.
Click to expand...

No, YK has problems scoring against all kinds of bowlers in ODIs. His problem is not specific to quality pacers. He cannot even get the runs at home, at UAE, in India or SL - where the problem is obviously not to struggle with pacers. He can't make runs in ODIs whether the wickets are flat, pacy or spinny. He used to be okish during the early part of his career, but the last five years are downright rubbish. I find that really strange for a good test batsman.
 
YK absolutely needs to have a great 2016 for it to mitigate his ODI career. I agree that you can't really be an ATG if you suck bad in one format, however if he can show that he can perform anywhere in Tests and win Pakistan matches (he's done that plenty of times in the SC, but only a handful of times elsewhere) then I'll consider h an ATG.

By extension, if he gets 10,000 runs in Tests then he'll also be considered an ATG because it would mean that he has done well against England, New Zealand and Australia all abroad.
 
IndianWillow said:
No, YK has problems scoring against all kinds of bowlers in ODIs. His problem is not specific to quality pacers. He cannot even get the runs at home, at UAE, in India or SL - where the problem is obviously not to struggle with pacers. He can't make runs in ODIs whether the wickets are flat, pacy or spinny. He used to be okish during the early part of his career, but the last five years are downright rubbish. I find that really strange for a good test batsman.
Click to expand...

Generally speaking, Younis Khan is much better against spin. However, still not good enough for ODIs. He can't bat at the top of the order in ODIs due to his inability to dominate pace. And he can't play in the middle order, because he takes too many balls to get himself set, even against the spinners.

The reason he's a good Test batsman is because he can weather through quality bowling through defensive technique. He's very good against spin defensively, and good enough against pace, not outstanding though. After he weathers through a little bit, he starts picking up runs. This is something he can't actually do in ODIs, hence he's an ODI failure.
 
Haroon786 said:
YK absolutely needs to have a great 2016 for it to mitigate his ODI career. I agree that you can't really be an ATG if you suck bad in one format, however if he can show that he can perform anywhere in Tests and win Pakistan matches (he's done that plenty of times in the SC, but only a handful of times elsewhere) then I'll consider h an ATG.

By extension, if he gets 10,000 runs in Tests then he'll also be considered an ATG because it would mean that he has done well against England, New Zealand and Australia all abroad.
Click to expand...

I doubt he will do well next year, looking at where we're touring. Younis is old now, his reflexes aren't the same. He's been playing in Asia, with little swing. His reflexes will really be tested when the pace and bounce come in. He will be eaten alive in all our overseas tours next year, maybe only scoring a couple of big scores here and there. Won't get to 10000 in my opinion.
 
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