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Your greatest ever Asian ODI XI

However, this is why I believe that in cross-era comparisons, certain players are sold short. Dhoni's strategy is influenced by how the game has changed/evolved, but why must we assume that he would not have adapted to the strategies and tactics of the 70's and 80's?

As a result of this logic, it has become almost impossible for a modern day player to be considered better than his equivalent from the prehistoric eras.

You have to use your judgments here - more or less, in 50 years of ODI history, I give lots of credit to batsmen of 80s (Viv, Zaheer, Jones, Javed); while you'll notice that WW, Mac, Donald, Ambi, Lee, Saq, Murali, Kumble ... gets better share of my thoughts from Lillee, Hadlee, Marshall, Holding or even Garner - because of the era they played & and the context of the game.

It's difficult to benchmark modern players because the game is distorted - in one side we are watching 350+ slogs, in other side bowlers are getting cheap wickets simply because batsmen are going for desperate shots. More or less average is balanced out in that process, but the Strike Rate & Economy has a major shift. Also, the batting milestones are becoming easier these days, as at the end of the day, we count 50s & hundreds - which is happening almost twice in every match these days - 35 years back, one WSC tournament of 18 matches would have produced less hundreds than what current AUS-NZ series has produced so far in 2 matches. Bowling milestones doesn't suffer in that regard, because average 7/8 wickets are falling in 50 overs - only change is 4/26 or 5/35 are changing to 4/50 or 5/55 these days - count of 4 or 5 wickets doesn't change much like count of hundreds & fifties.

I give another example - Javed once scored 10 consequtive 50s, probably 5 or 6 of those unbeaten & in winning chases, similar stats could be found for Viv or Deano as well, probably Desi Hayens also - those were 200 per era ; I can tell you that 25 years later, most of those struggling 71* (91) would have been Virat's or Smith's or Root's classy 111* (107). ODI game has changed more in 40 years than what Yanks have changed in their baseball for 140 years, hence you have to consider context & impact of a player.

For a counter argument - Razzak's average is much better & SR at 6/7 is even more than Kapil; but those two batting stats, simply doesn't match - in 80s a 25 ball 23 from No. 7 is like diamond; compared to Afridi's 23 of 18 balls is just a slog now. Similarly, Imran's average of 30 & SR 70 simply doesn't tell the batting impact for a player batting at 3/4 & 6/7 in same era - his SR is almost double at the lower slot from the upper one.

Best way to judge an ODI player is analyze the scorecard & see the comparative impact in the then context. Personally, only modern player (from 2000 afterwards) I may consider for ODI XI is Starc, with Virat, MS, AB, Sanga & may be Ajmal (without disclaimer) may be border line. Cricket reached it's zenith in 80s & 90s - stats will always remain same as it's not against fixed unit (time or distance), because the game is built on contest & impact, not on stats. If EBC arranges WC 2019 at the West Ham football ground, I can tell you that almost every WC batting record will topple - but that won't erase the memory of a certain 138* by Viv Richards.

Meeting time - later.........
 
You have to use your judgments here - more or less, in 50 years of ODI history, I give lots of credit to batsmen of 80s (Viv, Zaheer, Jones, Javed); while you'll notice that WW, Mac, Donald, Ambi, Lee, Saq, Murali, Kumble ... gets better share of my thoughts from Lillee, Hadlee, Marshall, Holding or even Garner - because of the era they played & and the context of the game.

It's difficult to benchmark modern players because the game is distorted - in one side we are watching 350+ slogs, in other side bowlers are getting cheap wickets simply because batsmen are going for desperate shots. More or less average is balanced out in that process, but the Strike Rate & Economy has a major shift. Also, the batting milestones are becoming easier these days, as at the end of the day, we count 50s & hundreds - which is happening almost twice in every match these days - 35 years back, one WSC tournament of 18 matches would have produced less hundreds than what current AUS-NZ series has produced so far in 2 matches. Bowling milestones doesn't suffer in that regard, because average 7/8 wickets are falling in 50 overs - only change is 4/26 or 5/35 are changing to 4/50 or 5/55 these days - count of 4 or 5 wickets doesn't change much like count of hundreds & fifties.

I give another example - Javed once scored 10 consequtive 50s, probably 5 or 6 of those unbeaten & in winning chases, similar stats could be found for Viv or Deano as well, probably Desi Hayens also - those were 200 per era ; I can tell you that 25 years later, most of those struggling 71* (91) would have been Virat's or Smith's or Root's classy 111* (107). ODI game has changed more in 40 years than what Yanks have changed in their baseball for 140 years, hence you have to consider context & impact of a player.

For a counter argument - Razzak's average is much better & SR at 6/7 is even more than Kapil; but those two batting stats, simply doesn't match - in 80s a 25 ball 23 from No. 7 is like diamond; compared to Afridi's 23 of 18 balls is just a slog now. Similarly, Imran's average of 30 & SR 70 simply doesn't tell the batting impact for a player batting at 3/4 & 6/7 in same era - his SR is almost double at the lower slot from the upper one.

Best way to judge an ODI player is analyze the scorecard & see the comparative impact in the then context. Personally, only modern player (from 2000 afterwards) I may consider for ODI XI is Starc, with Virat, MS, AB, Sanga & may be Ajmal (without disclaimer) may be border line. Cricket reached it's zenith in 80s & 90s - stats will always remain same as it's not against fixed unit (time or distance), because the game is built on contest & impact, not on stats. If EBC arranges WC 2019 at the West Ham football ground, I can tell you that almost every WC batting record will topple - but that won't erase the memory of a certain 138* by Viv Richards.

Meeting time - later.........

Again, the question is, why should we assume that the classy 111* (107) of Kohli/Root would not have been the struggling 71* (91) of Miandad or Dean Jones, if Kohli or Root were products of that era? Why would they be inferior in that era if they are standout batsmen of this era?

If we look at 'comparative impact', what qualities to these batsmen have that make them better than others, even though all of them have access to the luxuries of modern day cricket?

That is why cross-era comparisons become irrational and old-timers continue to monopolize greatness. This does not mean that cricket did not produce greats in the past. Of course they did, but greats of the game will always be there. However, by not giving modern day players a level playing field, it has become virtually impossible for any contemporary player to beat his competitor from the so-called golden era of cricket.

That is evident by the fact that legendary players like Kohli and Dhoni are borderline for your all-time XI, even though their is ample proof that they are as good as anyone in history as far as their roles are concerned.

This is why cross-era comparisons need to stop or contemporary players should not be degraded because of hypothetical scenarios that they do not control. I really do wish it was possible to have the modern day heavyweights compete with the heavyweights of yesteryears because it would have crushed a lot of myths and false narratives of the superiority that the cricketers of the previous eras hold over modern day players, so that we could have seen Kohli get the better of Malcom Marshall or Starc break the defense of Gavaskar, or for Bradman to get bamboozled by Ashwin on a rank-turner.

All of these are possible scenarios which will be rejected based on the assumptions that past players were simply much better than modern day players because the game was tougher, which conveniently ignores the fact that these so-called inferior modern day players were never given the chance to compete and evolve in the 'tough era'.

Anyhow, this is a circular argument. We should agree to disagree.
 
1) Sachin
2) Anwar
3) Abbas/Kohli
4) Sangakkara
5) Inzamam
6) Dhoni (wk)
7) Imran
8) Wasim
9) Waqar
10) Saqlain
11) Ajmal/Murali

12) Jayasuriya

If only Pakistan weren't plagued by infighting and corruption. Would have at least won two more World Cups.
 
Anwar
Sachin( ATG)
Kohli(ATG)
Abbas
Yuvraj
Dhoni( wk)(ATG)
Kapil(ATG)
Wasim(ATG)
Waqar(ATG)
Saqlain( ATG)
Murali(ATG)

Sangakkara, Jaya, Sehwag and Inzy misses out.
 
Sanath
Sachin
Virat
Abbas
Sanga
Msd (wk)
Imran
Kapil
Wasim
Saqlain
Murali
Waqar can come in depending on condition in place of Murali or Saqlain depending on conditions

Ganguly,Inzi,Ranatunga, Vaas,and Mindad were close to getting in my team. I know there are other names I missed.
 
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION], I understand your line of thought, but I have to disagree here. We are all guilty of viewing the past through rose tinted glasses (myself included) and tend to underrate modern cricketers a lot saying they couldn't have adapted to hypothetical scenarios. Dhoni was indeed one of the best in choking the opposition teams with spinners but he also brought the best out of his pacers with the limited resources that were available to him.

The Indian pacers had the best returns in the 2015 world cup till that semifinal and the Shami-Yadav partnership was the 2nd best bowling pair in that tournament only next to Starc-Hazelwood. And he didn't really have the spinners to exert pressure on those placid Australian tracks like he regularly does in Asia (Ash had a good tourney but Jadeja averaged 40 with the ball). I do think Dhoni would've definitely done even better if he had legendary strike bowlers at his disposal. Let's agree to disagree here.
 
Easy peasy.

Sachin, Jaysuriya, Miandad, Kohli, Inzamam, Dhoni, Kapil, Akram, Saqi, Waqar, Zaheer.
 
Easy peasy.

Sachin, Jaysuriya, Miandad, Kohli, Inzamam, Dhoni, Kapil, Akram, Saqi, Waqar, Zaheer.


And the B-team to take them on, would be:

Ganguly, Anwar, De Silva, Mahela, Sangakara (wk), Ajay Jadeja, Imran, Saqib ul hasan, Razzaq, Vaas, Murali
 
I'd go with:
Jaya
Anwar
Sachin
Kohli
Zaheer
Dhoni (wkt)
Imran (cpt)
Wasim
Waqar
Saqi
Murli

12th Man: Kapil (replace one of the spinners in seam/swing conditions)
 
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Sachin
Jaysurya
Kohli
Sangakara
Yuvraj
Imran(c)
Dhoni(wk)
Kapil
Wasim
Waqar
Murali
 
ATG Asian ODI XI

Ist XI

Anwar
Tendulkar
Kohli
de Silva
Jayasuriya 6
Dhoni+
Imran* 2
Kapil 4
Wasim 1
Murali 5
Waqar 3

2nd XI

Dilshan 6
Ganguly*
Sangakkara+
Zaheer Abbas
Miandad
Inzamam
Razzak 4
Vaas 2
Saqlain 5
Malinga 3
Shoaib 1

Next group of players, Yuvraj, Kumble, Sehwag, Afridi, Shakib
 
I'd take zaheer or Miandad over de silva in the first 11 and there's a case for saqlain in the first 11 too
 
I'd take zaheer or Miandad over de silva in the first 11 and there's a case for saqlain in the first 11 too

Saqlain has a wonderful ODI record, but it really is tough to go past Murali. He managed a great record playing for a lot longer than Saqlain, but Saqlain is ahead of Kumble.

I did strongly consider Miandad and Zaheer for the first side, but de Silva was too special for me. Personal favourite.
 
Sachin
Ganguly
Virat
Zaheer
Miandad
Dhoni (c) (wk)
Jayasuriya
Kapil
Saqlain
Wasim
Waqar
 
Sachin
Jayasuriya
Kohli(cpt)
Sangakara(WK)
Yuvraj
A Razzak
Kapil
Imran
Saqlain
Wasim
Shoaib
 
Why is miandad included in many teams if we are talking of odi (or you all are talking of odi in 70-80 style).
 
Playing XI

Tendulkar
Jayasuriya
Kohli
Miandad
Sangakarra
MSD +*
Kapil Dev
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Saqlain Mushtaq
Muralitharan

Bench
Reserve Opener - Saeed Anwar
Reserve Middle Order Bat + Part time spinner - Yuvraj Singh
Reserve Pace Bowler - Waqar Younis
Reserve Middle Order Bat + Part time pacer - Abdul Razzaq
 
Saeed anwer
Sewag
Tandulkar
Kohli
Inzimam
Sangakara
Imran khan
Wasim akram
Murlidaran
Waqar younis
Shoaib akhtar
 
Anwar - a toss between Dilshan, Anwar, Jayasuriya and Ganguly. I came close to selecting Ganguly, but went for Anwar, as he's possibly a bit more explosive.

Tendulkar - Tendy steadies the ship and can milk the fielding restrictions. He will reliably give you 40-100 runs, every three or so games. But on my team, Tendy is also a key bowler; I want him bowling 4 overs to the opposition's number 3 and 4 batsman every game; he knows how good batsmen think.

Kohli - Kohli's like a Swiss-Army knife. Whatever the job needed, he reconfigures himself for the task. You couldn't ask for a better player in this slot.

Sanga - If the top order fails, Sanga rebuilds. If the top order clicks, Sanga slogs us to a big total. He has the reliability of Tendulkar and the push-factor of Kohli.

Sehwag/Abbas - I wasn't sure who to put here. Do we put Sehwag and give him a license to slog, or Zaheer Abbas, with his 47 average and 80+ strike rate? My brain says Abbas, but my gut tells me Sehwag will click well in this role, despite cutting his teeth as an ODI opener.

Dhoni - Dhoni's my wicket-keeper, who shares keeping duties with Sanga. My team is a communist team, so everyone is simultaneously captain and vice-captain, with Dhoni merely in charge of disseminating democratically chosen team policy.

Abdul Razzaq - An all rounder, Razzaq's equally good with bat and ball. He gives me 5-6 overs and 30-50 runs.

Wasim - Death to Middle Stump!

Waqar - Death to Middle Stump!

Murali - He's got to be here; the greatest Asian spinner, and the mightiest eyeballs on the planet.

Mushtaq - It's a toss between Vaas, Akhtar, Malinga, Kapil Dev and Mustaq. Malinga's a yorker king, but Waqar and Wasim can perform that task. Vaas and Akhtar have decent ODI stats (which would you choose?) - and play if pitch conditions suit them - but I prefer 2 specialist spinners on a ODI team, so went with Mushtaq, who has a slightly better average than Kapil.
 
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1. Tendulkar
2. Jayasurya
3. Kohli
4. Sangakkara
5. Zaheer
6. Dhoni
7. Kapil
8. Akram
9. Waqar
10. Saqlain
11. Murali

Many are automatic choices like Tendulkar , Kohli , Dhoni , Akram , Saqlain , Murali.
Picked Jayasurya over Anwar, Ganguly because of superior hitting ability.
Kapil over Imran same reason as above.
 
Let's have a detailed analysis:

Openers:

SRT, Jaya, Anwar, Sehwag, Ganguly

I prefer SRT and Jaya as latter will give the extra bowling choice( sixth bowler) and former is obvious choice.

Middle Order:

Kohli
Abbas
De Silva
Dhoni

The best four IMO.. Inzy, Javed and Yuvi misses out to De Silva who was one of the most clutch cricketer ever.

All rounders: Kapil and Imran both obvious choices.

Fast bowlers: Wasim and Waqar

Spinner: Murali and Saqlain

Here we go then:

SRT
Jaya
Kohli
Abbas
De Silva
Dhoni
Kapil
Imran
Wasim
Waqar/ Saqlain( depending on conditions)
Murali

So many choices for captaincy here.
 
Jayasuriya
Tendulkar
Kohli
Abbass
Yuvraj
Dhoni
Imran
Afridi
Kapil
Akram
Saqlain

Just one tailender in this team
3 fast bowlers + 2 spinners
At least 2 backup bowlers
 
Since i have started to watch cricket from 1999WC when i was only 7 years old. I wasn't understanding much about the game during those days but it seriously gave me pleasure to watch it. So my asia 11 will probably include those players who have played since that era.


Saeed Anwar
Sachin
Virat
Kumar Sangakara
Inzimam
Dhoni (wk)
yuvraj singh
Wasim Akram
Murali / saqlain mushtaq
Shoiab Akhtar
Ch. Vaas.
 
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Tendulkar
Jayasuriya
Kohli
Abbas
Yuvraj
Dhoni(C/Wkt)
Kapil
Imran
Wasim
Waqar
Muralitharan

Batting till 9, 4 fast bowling options, 1 legendary spinner and another spin option.
 
Jayasuriya
Tendulkar
Kohli
Abbass
Yuvraj
Dhoni
Imran
Afridi
Kapil
Akram
Saqlain

Just one tailender in this team
3 fast bowlers + 2 spinners
At least 2 backup bowlers

Jayasuriya out, Rohit in. The latter has definitely surpassed the former purely as a batsman.
 
I'd go with

Sachin
Anwar
Zaheer
Kohli
Sanga/Miandad
Dhoni
Imran
Wasim
Waqar
Shoaib
Murali

Inzi was overrated in ODIs except for a few knocks. Sehwag was not consistent enough though his impact was underrated. The bowling selects itself
 
Sachin
Jayasuriya
Kohli
Yuvraj
Dhoni
Imran
Kapil
Wasim
Waqar
Malinga
Murali
 
A 20+ batting average difference is too much to ignore. Besides, Sharma can also go berserk when it comes to hitting the ball.

I would discount at least 10 out of the 20 average points, thanks to the era we are in.

One also needs to take into account the fact that Jyasuriya would offer reliable spin bowling option.
 
i see little lover for Sehwag and Ganguly. Did we just forget how Ganguly was the greatest ODI batsman from 1998 till 2001? a period that coincided with Tendulkar's best years. are we going to completely discount his bowling?

also any ODI team without Aravinda De Silva is incomplete.

Finally, Ravi Shastri ahead of Waqar. With Imran and Wasim in the team, and Kapil for good measure, you need more spin. Ravi Shastri provides that along with some serious batting.

That last one is a joke, so dont take it too hard boys.
 
i see little lover for Sehwag and Ganguly. Did we just forget how Ganguly was the greatest ODI batsman from 1998 till 2001? a period that coincided with Tendulkar's best years. are we going to completely discount his bowling?

also any ODI team without Aravinda De Silva is incomplete.

Finally, Ravi Shastri ahead of Waqar. With Imran and Wasim in the team, and Kapil for good measure, you need more spin. Ravi Shastri provides that along with some serious batting.

That last one is a joke, so dont take it too hard boys.

From around 2000 till around 2001. SRT scored 9 ODI centuries in 1998, and scored more than 1800 ODI runs that year, both of which still remain a world record.
 
A 20+ batting average difference is too much to ignore. Besides, Sharma can also go berserk when it comes to hitting the ball.

My assumption

Sanath in Rohit era
average 40, SR 115 plus

40 at 115 is as good as 60 at 90 IMO.
Longevity is another plus for Sanath.
And also he was a pioneer in ODIs.
 
i see little lover for Sehwag and Ganguly. Did we just forget how Ganguly was the greatest ODI batsman from 1998 till 2001? a period that coincided with Tendulkar's best years. are we going to completely discount his bowling?

also any ODI team without Aravinda De Silva is incomplete.

Finally, Ravi Shastri ahead of Waqar. With Imran and Wasim in the team, and Kapil for good measure, you need more spin. Ravi Shastri provides that along with some serious batting.

That last one is a joke, so dont take it too hard boys.

I would have gone with Ganguly but for the right balance, went with Jayasuriya as Tendulkar is pretty much an obvious pick.

Right-left combination and Sanath known for giving quick aggressive start early on while Tendulkar can go on and play long innings and hit hundreds for fun. Jayasuriya being a good bowling option as well.
 
Sachin
Jayasriya
Kohli
Inzi
Dhoni
Aravinda
Imran
Kapil
Wasim
Saqlain
Murali

Was tempted to go with Shakib, instead of Aravinda or Inzi. But with Jayasuriya in the lineup spin was covered.

Abbas was also an option in place of Aravinda or Inzi, and so was Miandad. Yuvraj was also someone I considered.

If someone like Rohit does overtake Jayasuriya the batsman, then Shakib or Yuvraj would replace one of the middle order batsman.
 
From around 2000 till around 2001. SRT scored 9 ODI centuries in 1998, and scored more than 1800 ODI runs that year, both of which still remain a world record.

Not to mention he scored runs at an SR of more than 100 that year. This was at a time when an SR of 70 was very respectable.
 
Bhaijaan’s greatest Asia ODI XI as on 23.04.2019:-


Tendulkar
Sharma
Kohli
Sangakkara
Miandad
Yuvraj
Dhoni
Kapil
Wasim
Waqar
Murali


Picked players for their respective positions. Ganguly, Anwar, Jayasuriya were strong contenders to bat alongside Sachin at the top but I wasn’t sure how well they would fare in the middle order.

Shoaib Akhtar, i find him more valuable in test cricket.

Imran Khan, you don’t need him when you have a superior ODI AR in Kapil Dev.
 
Don't know why people are selecting Imran as captain over Dhoni considering Dhoni's achievements far outweigh those of Imran's.
 
Tendulkar
Anwar
Kohli
Zaheer
de Silva
Dhoni(wkt)
Imran
Kapil
Wasim
Waqar
Murali
 
I would discount at least 10 out of the 20 average points, thanks to the era we are in.

One also needs to take into account the fact that Jyasuriya would offer reliable spin bowling option.

I’m considering their batting only. Of course as an all rounder, Jayasuriya wins over Sharma.
 
My assumption

Sanath in Rohit era
average 40, SR 115 plus

40 at 115 is as good as 60 at 90 IMO.
Longevity is another plus for Sanath.
And also he was a pioneer in ODIs.

Not even Kohli and ABD have 115 SR and no way is Jayasuriya better than them. His longevity was also his enemy. He became too inconsistent after the 90s.
 
1.Saeed Anwar
2.Sachin Tendulkar
3.Virat Kohli
4.Javed Miandad
5.Inzamam ul Haq
6.Kumar Sangakara
7.Shahid Afridi
8.Imran Khan (c)
9.Wasim Akram
10.Saqlain Mustaq
11.Waqar Younis

12. Shoaib Akhtar :p
 
Let's make it interesting. Let's bring a quota system. Only 3 players from srilanka, india and Pakistan allowed and 1 from BD needs to be in team. Then make team A B C with that quota and imagine they play triseries
 
Let's make it interesting. Let's bring a quota system. Only 3 players from srilanka, india and Pakistan allowed and 1 from BD and afg needs to be in team. Then make team A B C with that quota and imagine they play triseries

Team A sachin,sehwag,kohli,inzimam,sangkara(wkt) ,imran(c), wasim,vaas,murli,fizz,rashid
 
Team A sachin,sehwag,kohli,inzimam,sangkara(wkt) ,imran(c), wasim,vaas,murli,fizz,rashid

Team B jayasuriya,rohit,mahela,arvinda,miandad,dhoni(wkt c) shakib,hamidhassan,waqar,akthar,kumble,
 
Team B jayasuriya,rohit,mahela,arvinda,miandad,dhoni(wkt c) shakib,hamidhassan,waqar,akthar,kumble,

Team C Anwar,ganguly,dilshan,yuvraj,mohd yusuf ,kapil,saqlain,malinga, mushfiqur(bd),bumrah,nabi
 
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How are people picking Jayasuriya over Rohit? Rohit is already an ATG with just batting alone. 3 double centuries is no joke, nobody has more than 1. In fact Rohit has a strong claim to be the second greatest opener of all time.
 
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