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Your top five ODI spinners ever?

1. Saqlain
2. Murali
3. Warne
4. Ajmal
5. Tahir

If you don't count Ajmal, move Tahir up and 5th is Qadir.

The top three being Saqlain, Murali and Warne (can argue order) is surely unquestionable.
 
Not in any order but:

1.) Saqlain Mushtaq
2.) Muttiah Muralitharan
3.) Shane Warne
4.) Harbhajan Singh
5.) Shahid Afridi
 
1) Saqlain Mushtaq
2) Muttiah Muralitharan
3) Shane Warne
4) Saeed Ajmal
5) Imran Tahir
 
Saq
Warne
Murali
Qadir
Ajmal

6th man would have been Kumble. Tahir could have a shot at top 10 had he managed similar stats without bowling against novice kids against spin.
 
MMHS said:
Saq
Warne
Murali
Qadir
Ajmal

6th man would have been Kumble. Tahir could have a shot at top 10 had he managed similar stats without bowling against novice kids against spin.
Click to expand...

Not Tahir's fault. He's the Dale Steyn of spinners in ODIs.
 
1. Warne
2. Saqlain
3. Murali
4. Kumble
5. Mushtaq Ahmed

Rest of 10 - Brad Hogg, Tahir, Bhajji, Qadir, Ajmal

Ajmal would have been much higher, but that a would have been unfair to others who didn't bend their arms.
 
Sidilicious said:
1. Warne
2. Saqlain
3. Murali
4. Kumble
5. Mushtaq Ahmed

Rest of 10 - Brad Hogg, Tahir, Bhajji, Qadir, Ajmal

Ajmal would have been much higher, but that a would have been unfair to others who didn't bend their arms.
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Yes, it would have been very unfair for Harbhajjan. :ba
 
Saqlain didn;t play much cricket but he is a genius.
Warne & Murli undoubtedly there.
Imran tahir is doing something special for SA.
Abdul Qadir bowled at the time of Giants.
 
khurram39 said:
Saqlain didn;t play much cricket but he is a genius.
Warne & Murli undoubtedly there.
Imran tahir is doing something special for SA.
Abdul Qadir bowled at the time of Giants.
Click to expand...

169 ODIs and 288 wickets with a bowling average of 23.88 against Australia (24.74 in Australia) and 24.38 against India (20.70 in India) is a good enough sample size to make him the greatest ODI spinner of all time.
 
The_Odd_One said:
169 ODIs and 288 wickets with a bowling average of 23.88 against Australia (24.74 in Australia) and 24.38 against India (20.70 in India) is a good enough sample size to make him the greatest ODI spinner of all time.
Click to expand...

Also , very good strike rate. And If I am not mistaken he is among top 5 best economy rates
 
1. Saqlain Mushtaq
2. Shane Warne
3. Muttiah Muralitharan
4. Saeed Ajmal
5. Abdul Qadir
 
1) Saqlain Mushtaq (Handsdown the best ODI spinner of all time)
2) Saeed Ajmal (I always felt he matched Saqlain in skills, bowled amazing under pressure)
3) Murlitharan (always turned miles and was quick through the air)
4) Shane Warne (A magician in test and ODIs, my first and only legspin pick in top 5 spinners)
5) Vettori (He was someone who was always hard to hit against, mostly wasn't a wicket taking option but definitely an economical one. Arguably the best LOI left arm spinner of all time).
 
No spinner is better than Saqlain in ODIs, just like no pacer is better than Wasim.
 
Why is the chucker even being mentioned. Surely the fact that he was bowling more than 2 times over the legal limit nullifies anything he achieved in his career.
 
then why is murli considered as G.O.A.T he chucked a lot icc did not see his action until 2014 he played over 100 odi matches and all of sudden icc found his action faulty
 
then why is murli considered as G.O.A.T, he even chucked more than ajmal. its was the rule to bowl with 15 degree but with the exception of any medical problem. ICC changed the rule in 2014 thats why there were so many reported actions in 2014 because they changed the medical thing. players like ajmal hafeez arafat sunny and everyone were reported after the change of rule before that they were bowling according to the rule
 
mine 5 would be
1. murli
2.shane warne
3. saqlain mushtaq
4. saeed ajmal
5. bhajji

I included bhajji in my list because he was a match winner and really hard to play at time
and saeed ajmal was truly a magician, almost no one in the world read his deliveries and seemed clueless he was always in charge. Saeed ajmal also bowled in all the most difficult situations. if you look his t20 career he bowled in 18 19 and 20 over where no spinner in the world bowls.
 
In tests :
1.Shane warne
2.Muralitharan
3.Anil Kumble
4.Rangana herath
5.Daniel vettori

for ODIs :
1.Shane Warne
2.Murlitharan
3.Saqlain mustaq
4.Harbhajan singh
5.Imran Tahir

For T20s :
1.Rashid khan
2.Imran tahir
3.Brad hogg
4.Samuel badree
5.Sunil narine

overall :
1.Shane warne
2.Murlitharan
3.Saqlain mustaq
4.Harbhajan singh
5.Rashid khan
 
SLcric123 said:
Mine would be:

Murali
Warne
Saqlain
Qadir
Tahir

What would be your pick?
Click to expand...

Saqlain. In a league of his own with Murli. 6 5fers in just 169 matches, SR of 30, Ave 21. Tops it for being an innovator of the game, introducing the doosra.

Murli, Superb stats paralleled only by Saqlain. Remained a force of nature across 350 matches. 10 10fers in ODIs is simply mindboggling

Tahir. Saqlainesque SR and Ave in age where ODI bowlers have become punching bags. Alongside Narine, the only true strike spinner in the post Ajmal era.

Warne. A force in big tournaments, Pakistani fans will remember the ball that got Razzaq in WC 1999. But Tests is where he truly stood apart; has only one 5 fer from 190 something ODIs, Ave and SR merely very good.
 
Warne, Murali & Saqlain are the easy 3 names for the top 5.

Not sure about other 2 names.
 
The_Odd_One said:
169 ODIs and 288 wickets with a bowling average of 23.88 against Australia (24.74 in Australia) and 24.38 against India (20.70 in India) is a good enough sample size to make him the greatest ODI spinner of all time.
Click to expand...

I rate him number 1 but as per his talent he didn't play that much cricket as he deserves.
 
Ellipsism said:
Why is the chucker even being mentioned. Surely the fact that he was bowling more than 2 times over the legal limit nullifies anything he achieved in his career.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. If the governing body, the ICC, has no problem with it, then who are you to act as the judge and jury?

Ajmal is quite easily one of the top five ODI spinners of all time and definitely the best since Saqi, Murali and Warne retired.
 
MMHS said:
Saq
Warne
Murali
Qadir
Ajmal

6th man would have been Kumble. Tahir could have a shot at top 10 had he managed similar stats without bowling against novice kids against spin.
Click to expand...

Why do you rate Qadir higher than Ajmal?
 
Bilal7 said:
Why do you rate Qadir higher than Ajmal?
Click to expand...

Because Ajmal bowled against novices - who bats with shoulder and mallet, Qadir bowled against batsmen who batted with feet and wrist. Ajmal's doosra was extremely effective because his batsmen had to wait for the ball to pitch to figure out which way it's turning (hence it's all about slog sweep or cow corner); Qadirs batsmen could read the Googly & flipper in air and could dance down to play the ball on it's pitch.

3 WKs, 3 WKs of 90s - Kalu, Mongia & Moin .... will be among top 10 spin player in modern era; I have to take that discount.
 
MMHS said:
Because Ajmal bowled against novices - who bats with shoulder and mallet, Qadir bowled against batsmen who batted with feet and wrist. Ajmal's doosra was extremely effective because his batsmen had to wait for the ball to pitch to figure out which way it's turning (hence it's all about slog sweep or cow corner); Qadirs batsmen could read the Googly & flipper in air and could dance down to play the ball on it's pitch.

3 WKs, 3 WKs of 90s - Kalu, Mongia & Moin .... will be among top 10 spin player in modern era; I have to take that discount.
Click to expand...

I do not think that Sanga, Amla, ABD, Smith, KP, Hussey, Sachin, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Matthews, Jayawardene, Chanderpaul, Clarke, Cook, Kallis, Kohli and Maxwell can be remotely considered "novices" against spin bowling.

Qadir's impact was limited within Asia, IIRC, whereas Ajmal won us a series in South Africa and generally did well throughout the world.
 
Bilal7 said:
No it doesn't. If the governing body, the ICC, has no problem with it, then who are you to act as the judge and jury?

Ajmal is quite easily one of the top five ODI spinners of all time and definitely the best since Saqi, Murali and Warne retired.
Click to expand...

The governing body has found a problem with it. It is your ignorance that prevents you from acknowledging that.
 
Bilal7 said:
I do not think that Sanga, Amla, ABD, Smith, KP, Hussey, Sachin, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Matthews, Jayawardene, Chanderpaul, Clarke, Cook, Kallis, Kohli and Maxwell can be remotely considered "novices" against spin bowling.

Qadir's impact was limited within Asia, IIRC, whereas Ajmal won us a series in South Africa and generally did well throughout the world.
Click to expand...

The names you mentioned are indeed good collection, still, over all spin playing capacity has gone down drastically. It's very close, but Qadir was instrumental in PAK reaching 2 WC SF of 1983 & 1987 - Ajmal never won a MoM in ODI career
 
Bilal7 said:
No it doesn't. If the governing body, the ICC, has no problem with it, then who are you to act as the judge and jury?

Ajmal is quite easily one of the top five ODI spinners of all time and definitely the best since Saqi, Murali and Warne retired.
Click to expand...


Yes when it's your favourites everyone else's opinion becomes irrelevant but yours is the most important. Furthmore same umpires who liase with the same ICC who found Ajmal action to be illegal find Ashwin action fine. Yet you have a problem with his action.
 
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Sachin136 said:
The governing body has found a problem with it. It is your ignorance that prevents you from acknowledging that.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I did not realize that the ICC took Ajmal down from the rankings and liquefied his stats from their database after he was found to be chucking. His record has stayed as is and therefore, he remains one of the best LOI spinners of all time.

MMHS said:
The names you mentioned are indeed good collection, still, over all spin playing capacity has gone down drastically. It's very close, but Qadir was instrumental in PAK reaching 2 WC SF of 1983 & 1987 - Ajmal never won a MoM in ODI career
Click to expand...

Perhaps. Good point about Qadir's performances in World Cup matches. I agree that it is close but I will still pick Ajmal.
 
Hasan123 said:
Yes when it's your favourites everyone else's opinion becomes irrelevant but yours is the most important. Furthmore same umpires who liase with the same ICC who found Ajmal action to be illegal find Ashwin action fine. Yet you have a problem with his action.
Click to expand...

It is not my opinion which is important, but the ICC's. And I only want Ashwin to be tested so that all doubts are cleared, I do not claim that he is a chucker and certainly do not claim to know better than the governing body. If I have said anything negative about Ashwin's action other than the need for him to get tested, it was a joke that like most other things.
 
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Bilal7 said:
It is not my opinion which is important, but the ICC's. And I only want Ashwin to be tested so that all doubts are cleared, I do not claim that he is a chucker and certainly do not claim to know better than the governing body. If I have said anything negative about Ashwin's action other than the need for him to get tested, it was a joke that like most other things.
Click to expand...


Ashwin has been bowling with that action for many years if it's illegal he will be called.

His action is clear, if he's called I'll be the 1st to call him a cheat but until then he's clean.
 
MMHS said:
Because Ajmal bowled against novices - who bats with shoulder and mallet, Qadir bowled against batsmen who batted with feet and wrist. Ajmal's doosra was extremely effective because his batsmen had to wait for the ball to pitch to figure out which way it's turning (hence it's all about slog sweep or cow corner); Qadirs batsmen could read the Googly & flipper in air and could dance down to play the ball on it's pitch.

3 WKs, 3 WKs of 90s - Kalu, Mongia & Moin .... will be among top 10 spin player in modern era; I have to take that discount.
Click to expand...

Chucker Ajmal should not even be rated or ranked
 
Bilal7 said:
Yes, it would have been very unfair for Harbhajjan. :ba
Click to expand...

1. Bhajji is a chucker, all neutrals and non biased fans know that.

2. He doesn't play anymore so can't be shamelessly banned like Ajmal was

3. One wrong doesn't make a right, Ajmal is a cheat and so was Bhajji, therefore both should not be mentioned under the names of other legit spinners, Bhajji, luckily for him, escaped prosecution.
 
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CricFan2012 said:
Chucker Ajmal should not even be rated or ranked
Click to expand...

Ajmal didn't bowl a single over after he was called, therefore it's unfair to call him cheat or chucker. In history of game, there are many bowlers in past who would have failed this 15 degree rule (I don't want to put names, but some of them are regarded even ATG) - I think, ICC put a limit of 15 degree to keep themselves out of controversy, therefore bowlers who had been called should be recognized for their pre-call stats. Ajmal bowled as long as ICC allowed him to bowl and the guy didn't do the disgusting staff of MoHa.

I like Leggis more than finger spinners and Qadir was a magician on his day, otherwise this is really, really close call. In this high scoring era, Ajmal's numbers are mind blowing, even outside Asia and that guy actually knocked-off many set middle orders between 15-40 overs. Like Murali or Hadlee, he was truly an one man army for best part of 5 years, for a poor team under a pathetic Captain.
 
CricFan2012 said:
1. Bhajji is a chucker, all neutrals and non biased fans know that.

2. He doesn't play anymore so can't be shamelessly banned like Ajmal was

3. One wrong doesn't make a right, Ajmal is a cheat and so was Bhajji, therefore both should not be mentioned under the names of other legit spinners, Bhajji, luckily for him, escaped prosecution.
Click to expand...

Ajmal is not a cheat. He bowled within the rules set by the ICC until 2014, by which time he was already in decline.

He's a champion spinner and the best since Murali/Warne retired.
 
Bilal7 said:
No it doesn't. If the governing body, the ICC, has no problem with it, then who are you to act as the judge and jury?

Ajmal is quite easily one of the top five ODI spinners of all time and definitely the best since Saqi, Murali and Warne retired.
Click to expand...
Ajmal didn't wake up one day and start bowling 2x over the legal limit, ethically speaking, anything he achieved during his career should not be of value as he did it illegally.
 
Ellipsism said:
Ajmal didn't wake up one day and start bowling 2x over the legal limit, ethically speaking, anything he achieved during his career should not be of value as he did it illegally.
Click to expand...

You need to read up the definition of 'illegal' again because what Ajmal did was definitely not illegal. Had he defied the ICC and still bowled with his old action after they demanded he change his action, that would be illegal. As it stands, he did what he was allowed to do by the governing body and was as clean as any other bowler.
 
MMHS said:
Ajmal didn't bowl a single over after he was called, therefore it's unfair to call him cheat or chucker. In history of game, there are many bowlers in past who would have failed this 15 degree rule (I don't want to put names, but some of them are regarded even ATG) - I think, ICC put a limit of 15 degree to keep themselves out of controversy, therefore bowlers who had been called should be recognized for their pre-call stats. Ajmal bowled as long as ICC allowed him to bowl and the guy didn't do the disgusting staff of MoHa.

I like Leggis more than finger spinners and Qadir was a magician on his day, otherwise this is really, really close call. In this high scoring era, Ajmal's numbers are mind blowing, even outside Asia and that guy actually knocked-off many set middle orders between 15-40 overs. Like Murali or Hadlee, he was truly an one man army for best part of 5 years, for a poor team under a pathetic Captain.
Click to expand...

Bilal7 said:
You need to read up the definition of 'illegal' again because what Ajmal did was definitely not illegal. Had he defied the ICC and still bowled with his old action after they demanded he change his action, that would be illegal. As it stands, he did what he was allowed to do by the governing body and was as clean as any other bowler.
Click to expand...

Ajmal may not have bowled any illegal deliveries technically, but he was clearly dishonest about his elbow problem that prevented him from bowling within the limits. As soon as he got banned, he was able to bowl with a clean action and he did not undergo any corrective surgical procedure or physiotherapy.

In addition, the practice of batting with short-sleeves and bowling with long-sleeves was dodgy. He is not the innocent soul some are portraying him to be - he has plenty of skeletons in the closet.
 
Saqlain is a pioneer and a great spinner.. Easily the GOAT of ODI's.. Very few players are great at something and also pioneers and bring something new.. Saqi is one of them..

Warnie would be second pick.

Murali would be third

Kumble, vettori, bhajji are far behind the above mentioned 3..
 
big_gamer007 said:
Saqlain is a pioneer and a great spinner.. Easily the GOAT of ODI's.. Very few players are great at something and also pioneers and bring something new.. Saqi is one of them..

Warnie would be second pick.

Murali would be third

Kumble, vettori, bhajji are far behind the above mentioned 3..
Click to expand...

Muralis ODI stats are much better than Warne.
 
Anik Sharma said:
Muralis ODI stats are much better than Warne.
Click to expand...



I know and if Murali didn't enjoy extra benefit he got I would rate him as the best bowler (including pacers) the world has ever seen.. But to me he enjoyed benefit which someone like warnie did not hence I rated warnie above him..
 
Mamoon said:
Ajmal may not have bowled any illegal deliveries technically, but he was clearly dishonest about his elbow problem that prevented him from bowling within the limits. As soon as he got banned, he was able to bowl with a clean action and he did not undergo any corrective surgical procedure or physiotherapy.

In addition, the practice of batting with short-sleeves and bowling with long-sleeves was dodgy. He is not the innocent soul some are portraying him to be - he has plenty of skeletons in the closet.
Click to expand...

That's I am saying - he isn't the only one. There were bowlers even in 1950's who would use full sleeve, or bowl for the "soft" umpire's end.

Besides, I am sure Ajmal was "encouraged" to do what he was doing. Arthur & Sarfraz bowled full 20 overs of MoHa in 1st 2 ODI, then he was called and still they kept bowling with him through the loophole of ICC ruling.
 
Mamoon said:
Ajmal may not have bowled any illegal deliveries technically, but he was clearly dishonest about his elbow problem that prevented him from bowling within the limits. As soon as he got banned, he was able to bowl with a clean action and he did not undergo any corrective surgical procedure or physiotherapy.

In addition, the practice of batting with short-sleeves and bowling with long-sleeves was dodgy. He is not the innocent soul some are portraying him to be - he has plenty of skeletons in the closet.
Click to expand...

It was very difficult for him to change his action and even when he did, it was not effective in the least.

The practice of bowling in long sleeves is a non-issue. Plenty of bowlers have done so and continue to do so. Long sleeves hardly prevent umpires from calling bowlers with dubious actions.
 
Bilal7 said:
It was very difficult for him to change his action and even when he did, it was not effective in the least.

The practice of bowling in long sleeves is a non-issue. Plenty of bowlers have done so and continue to do so. Long sleeves hardly prevent umpires from calling bowlers with dubious actions.
Click to expand...

what about his story of accident as a kid?
 
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